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Linux To Take Over The Low-End PC Market?

An anonymous reader writes "Desktop Linux has a recent commentary on the inevitable growth of Linux on the cheaper end of the desktop market. According to the article, the availability of under-$500 usable hardware, combined with a free operating system, free desktop office products, and free or cheap 'software as a service' online applications, opens a new market in which Microsoft cannot compete. 'Microsoft will fight this trend tooth and nail. It will cut prices to the point where it'll be bleeding ink on some of its product lines. And Windows XP is going to stick around much longer than Microsoft ever wanted it to. Still, it won't be enough.'"

74 of 391 comments (clear)

  1. Microsoft will not bleed ink by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Everything Microsoft has on the market pre-Vista has long since been amortized, I think. And I'm not sure ink is what MSFT has in its veins...

    --
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    1. Re:Microsoft will not bleed ink by ciaohound · · Score: 5, Informative

      Don't be impressed by the big accounting word ("amortized," in case you missed it). If they're forced into maintaining the XP code base longer than they had planned, those are real expenses.

      --
      Oh, yeah, it's not easy to pad these out to 120 characters.
    2. Re:Microsoft will not bleed ink by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not to mention the absolute huge, gargantuan cost of the total image loss the vista disaster has caused micro$oft. They're the best marketeers the Free Software ever could dream up.

      It's funny you can download better operating systems for free than what the richest corporation on earth can sell you. Then again, companies aren't there to make products, they're there to make money.

    3. Re:Microsoft will not bleed ink by jacquesm · · Score: 2, Insightful

      that's right on the money. I think that the 'big change' will come the day there is a linux distro out there that will have wine installed and functional to the point where it will run office 2003 out of the box. When that's achieved there will be a large amount of people in a position to switch.

      All those people complaining about 'not being able to run their games' forget one thing: Computers were not designed to be game playing machines, they were designed as productivity tools. That the gaming market was able to flourish on the back of the roll out of the PC was a side effect, not the main cause. The spreadsheet was and is probably the biggest single 'invention' in the software world, Dan Bricklin did more for the 'gamers' by getting the PC adopted by the millions than any games programmer ever did.

    4. Re:Microsoft will not bleed ink by Pecisk · · Score: 4, Informative

      You meant Ubuntu 7.10? Because it has Wine (installed by several clicks trough Add/Remove...), and it works out of box. Office 2003, World of Warcraft (Yes, I have account, and yes, I play it everyday), uTorrent... You name it.

      --
      user@ubuntubox:~$ stfu This server is going down for shutdown NOW!
    5. Re:Microsoft will not bleed ink by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Just to note, Microsoft isn't the richest corporation on earth. And as it happens, the richest corporation on earth (Walmart) is now selling Linux PCs.

      Linux is a rather high-quality OS used for ultra-high-end applications in HPC. Yet millions of people will now perceive it as the low-end. Strange.

    6. Re:Microsoft will not bleed ink by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Linux is a rather high-quality OS used for ultra-high-end applications in HPC. Yet millions of people will now perceive it as the low-end. Strange. It's actually both of those things. The cool thing about Linux is that it's like the Swiss Army knife of operating systems. It can scale down to the tiniest mobile device with a low end ARM processor up to the fastest supercomputing clusters in the world. You can use it as a low-end desktop OS or as a high-end workstation OS. It can run file server appliance or as a compute cluster for scientific research.

      That's the power, innovation, and advantage of open source -- you have the code, the right to modify and distribute it, so you can adopt it for whatever application suits your needs.
    7. Re:Microsoft will not bleed ink by rucs_hack · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Define 'better'.

      Not all customers think free is better, especially those who are long term Microsoft houses. Not just them though, there are still a lot of proprietary Unix houses out there who are a long way from thinking Linux is what they need.

      The OS itself is almost unimportant, it's the service that goes with it that matters. corporations never did just buy site licenses, they bought massive support contracts. Linux needs to convince a lot of companies that are happy with their current arrangement that its ok to switch.

      Ok, a lot of these Microsoft only companies are rejecting Vista, but that's not a statement of personal dislike, it's a business decision. Vista had a number of problems even before it left the gate. First, it's new. That alone meant that many businesses would hold off, nobody wants to be the first in the water. Secondly, it's not alone in the marketplace. Third, it's not actually that much better then XP (I think in usability terms its a step back, but there must be security improvements under the hood).

      Many companies currently using XP will eventually migrate to Vista, there's no doubt there, if only because their bespoke software or other licensed software requires the windows platform, and XP will eventually be seen as too old as hardware changes. I wouldn't be expecting this for a few years though.

    8. Re:Microsoft will not bleed ink by WhiteWolf666 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't have the numbers to prove it, however, I'm guessing that Microsoft's efficiency is starting to approach that of the U.S. military's.

      Still on top of its game, however, in terms of $$$ spent per line of code, Microsoft seems to be incredibly wasteful. That's okay for the military, since a military focuses on redundancy, also know as "waste", or "inefficiency".

      For a corporation, however, particularly a public company, this suggests a degree of illness/sickness. The question is, given Microsoft's huge coffers, monopoly grip in the OS market, and dominance in a variety of other markets; will they be able to turn it around?

      If Microsoft continues to stagnate for 20-30 years, they will no long be on top. 6 years ago, this would have just been wishful thinking, however, keep in mind just how little Microsoft's technology has advanced since then, and extrapolate that over 30 years.

      Still, a lot can change in 30 years, and it would be foolish to predict what is going to happen. Either way, however, Linux/Apple encroaching upon Microsoft will improve the consumer's experience. Either we'll get better software from MS, or we'll switch to something better from another company.

      --
      WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
    9. Re:Microsoft will not bleed ink by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Why? Two clicks seems to have gone over well enough on Windows.

    10. Re:Microsoft will not bleed ink by Frantix · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Honestly I think market acceptance would be greatly help if (as I repeat over and over) the typical Linux users attitude would change. Hate to say it but the hardcore Linux group tends to have a superiority complex and rather than answer questions, they become overly sensitive, defensive and generally talk down to people because they can't get a feature to work. I'm not saying all are like this but I've read a lot of forums where new users are talked to like they're stupid rather than just a new user in a foreign playground.

    11. Re:Microsoft will not bleed ink by nem75 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you really could, everybody would have done so already. If free operating systems really were "better" in every way, nobody would pay for a worse one if they can get something better for free.

      If everybody actively had to get an OS after buying a computer the percentages and general perception about what's better and best would be different, but, well, Windows OEM, MS Office, OpenOffice, Photoshop, Gimp, car analogies, assumptions, yadda yadda yadda... we all know where this leads so I'll just stop right here.

    12. Re:Microsoft will not bleed ink by LWATCDR · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "I can go to OfficeMax and buy a printer that will
      "just" work for Linux. For Windows I have to install
      drivers and then figure out what went wrong when the
      something inevitably goes wrong with the windows setup.

      What I can't do is buy some random piece of crap."

      Most printers don't say "will work with Linux" on the box. I can not go to office Max and grab and HP or Epson printer and be pretty sure they both just work.
      What I can not do is find a Scanner, fax, printer that will just work with out a lot of tricks.

      Most random piece of crap printers will hook up to a Windows box and work. With Linux it takes effort.

      I can make Linux work for me. But if you want the average person to think of Linux as an option for them then YES VIRGINA you have to have the option of going OfficeMAX or even WalMart and buying the $49.00 craptastic inkjet printer and having it work.
      What we are talking about here are LOW END PCs. People are going to want to hook up random crap to the Low End PC and have it just work.

      --
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    13. Re:Microsoft will not bleed ink by Kadin2048 · · Score: 2, Informative

      "A lot of new users get bitchslapped because they deserve it."

      And that sums up, in one efficient sentence, why Linux will not be easily adopted by the masses anytime soon. Users who don't know anything about computers probably shouldn't be relying on volunteer-supported forums for their sole source of technical support, either. If you go to a place where people only help you out of the kindness of their hearts, and ask ridiculously dumb questions, of course you're going to get useless responses. Those forums are run by, and essentially for, people who are interested in computers generally and Linux in particular. If you don't find computers interesting, don't want to do anything on your own, and basically need inch-by-inch hand-holding, it's going to be frustrating for all concerned.

      I think it's setting clueless users up for failure if you give them a computer for which volunteer forums are the sole/primary source of support. Those people need paid callcenter drones to deal with their mindless questions and general incivility and lack of interest in self-help.

      And that is why the Linux machines at WalMart come with free phone support.
      --
      "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    14. Re:Microsoft will not bleed ink by hullabalucination · · Score: 2, Interesting

      tends to have a superiority complex and rather than answer questions they become overly sensitive, defensive and generally talk down to people

      And how, exactly, is this different from the Windows user support sites? Having spent endless hours on both Linux and Windows help forums (and I'm on the Windows help forums because Microsoft or a Windows app vendor said "screw you, I've got your money already, no soup for you") I see little difference except that you eventually generally get a solution on the Linux forums, whereas on the Windows forums you're often dismissed with a "just wait for the Service Pack or app upgrade" kind of response, after being mocked for being on an older version of Windows than the respondee.

      You know, this is going to come as an absolute shock to you, but many Mac users view Windows user attitudes from precisely the same perspective that you view Linux users. To them, Windows people are amazingly condescending and arrogant. I've experienced this myself aplenty from folks who apparently believe that their Microsoft Partner designation gets them the key to the same executive washroom that the Almighty uses.

      You must not hang around the same Linux help forums I do, where fixes come relatively quickly and the community is very very helpful. How much would you care to bet that doing multi-platform (Linux/Mac/Windows) multimedia production with multi-platform-supported network services, my support issues are a tad more extreme that this Mr. J. User you postulate? Yet, my experience with the Windows vs. Linux "hard core" community has been just exactly the opposite of yours.

      * * * * *

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    15. Re:Microsoft will not bleed ink by Darinbob · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's actually both of those things.

      What, you mean I don't have the buy the "Linux Server Professional" edition to run high end applications? Then what's to prevent all those corporations from just buying the cheaper "Linux Home" or "Linux Media Center" editions?

      Won't someone think of teh profits?
    16. Re:Microsoft will not bleed ink by calebt3 · · Score: 2, Informative

      If it doesn't run the software users want to run, it is not better in every way It's not that it can't run the software. Firefox works the same way on all platforms. If all programs were only written for Mac, would that make it better of an OS than it is now? People don't use Linux because of a perceived lack of applications. Companies that sell software don't develop for Linux because of a perceived lack of users (and therefore customers). There is no lack of ability on Linux's part.
  2. Microsft Remove Vista's Kill Switch by Freaky+Spook · · Score: 3, Interesting

    http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/12/04/1331246&from=rss

    Is it any coincidence that Microsoft has done this? Piracy does help them to a certain extent, it pushes their products into markets where people cannot afford them, or just flat out don't want to pay for it, which still ultimatley counts towards their market share.

  3. A little off topic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    but I'd been using OSX heavily for about one year and since then, my usage of linux has dramatically increased. It started with Kubuntu, but got a little tired of it, before finally settling on Fedora 8 just recently. I've completely flicked Windows now. The last legacy for me using Windows was for the casual gaming, but that was gone when I finally got a console (admittedly a 360). I gradually got used to using a terminal, picked a shell that I liked and stuck with it. Forced myself to do everything with the terminal. Eventually, have a little library of scripts that do most of my everyday stuff. I'll never look back. I think the big thing that made it happen was sites like macosxhints that post little snippets of one line shell scripts that users comment on, improve (if possible) and then are easily searchable. Some of the LinuxForums are useful, but I'm yet to find one that is good, and as simple, as the one I mentioned above.

    1. Re:A little off topic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      If you enjoy scripting, one of the best sites around is Heiner's SHELLdorado.

  4. Piracy & Linux on the desktop by BobKagy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Previously sales figures for Linux desktops were suspect because of the argument "Well, everybody buying them is just putting a pirated copy of Windows on them anyway." Scanning the article I didn't see anything about piracy...

    But recently with activation & continuous authentication, Microsoft has tried to prevent this.

    Has Microsoft finally given up its an extra tier of pricing beyond retail and volume? "You'd never give us a cent for Windows? Well, at least pirate it ..."

  5. News that matters? by iBod · · Score: 3, Insightful

    TFA is just a rather poorly informed opinion piece and a lot of wishful thinking.

    Since when did this consititute 'news'?

  6. Perceived delay by Pope+Raymond+Lama · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In my coutry we have had GNU/Linux in low end PC's at mainstream outlets for sometime now.Most of these are replaced by an ilegal copy of windows on the first days of use, but still some stick around.That is just part of the vicious circle desktop systems are inserted due to the monopoly exerced by Microsoft, and certainly the few GNUs remaining do contribute for a slow market share shift.

    The main problem, IMHO, is not even Joe Newbie who re-formats his GNU PC. It is the mentality of PC vendors itself who do not even configure their GNU/Linuxes correctly on their hardware.

    The other day I saw a notebook at a shop with a misconfigured video driver, logged in X11 with a purplish tint and horizontal garbage lines everywhere. Another example: a local LinuxMagazine review a couple of years ago found out that in a Hwlet Packard low end desktop system pre-configured with GNU/Linux (indeed!), OpenOficce would take a full 3 minutes to start!! Because they had configured a 128MB system with a 1GB Swap.

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    1. Re:Perceived delay by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 2, Funny

      In my coutry we have had GNU/Linux in low end PC's

      Are users really interested in Debian, though? Wouldn't they be better off with something a little less religious, like Ubuntu?

    2. Re:Perceived delay by jimicus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      OpenOficce would take a full 3 minutes to start!! Because they had configured a 128MB system with a 1GB Swap.

      You didn't really need to add "with a 1GB swap" there.

      Sure, Linux will run happily on much older hardware. Doesn't mean you can usefully do any typical desktop-type tasks on it - unless you're prepared to forego GUI-based office applications.

  7. Nicest device at present by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The nicest device I can see at present is the Nokia N810 which runs the Maemo (linux) OS.

    High resolution touch screen (800*480), hardware keyboard, gps and customisable - ~$450

    This looks dreamy (and its on my xmas list)

    --
    liqbase :: faster than paper
    1. Re:Nicest device at present by the_humeister · · Score: 2, Funny

      Nice, but does it play Ogg???

    2. Re:Nicest device at present by PhillC · · Score: 2, Informative
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  8. Annoyed by Gigiya · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I realize I should expect no less from an article on desktoplinux.com, but I'm extremely annoyed by comments like "Still, it won't be enough." I can just imagine a typical Linux fanboy laughing diabolically while typing it. While the article has valid points, comments like that are wishful thinking and immature conjecture.

  9. Great, we need a vista killer by zakezuke · · Score: 3, Insightful

    My biggest complaint wasn't the fact that Vista was a bug ridden piece of filth the likes of which made windows ME look good, but the fact they have Home Basic, Home Premium, Business, and Ultimate... oh and Enterprise too that no bugger seems to be using. An OS which will cost you $100 to $400.

    I'm not going to say $100 isn't reasonable for the OS that runs your PC. It's a fair price. But the version game is unacceptable. So hopefully some of the linux based PCs will drive down prices of MS's OS down to reasonable and sane levels.

    --
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    1. Re:Great, we need a vista killer by drsmithy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But the version game is unacceptable.

      Uh, why ? It's not like price discrimination is an uncommon market phenomenon...

    2. Re:Great, we need a vista killer by SharpFang · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not uncommon, but it isn't fair (or, taking more objective standpoint: "is perceived unfair by a major percentage of customers") - you're paying 400% the base price to get like 40% extra functionality. Besides, people don't perceive the high-end versions as extended variants of the low-end base system, but the low-end versions as purposedly crippled high-end base.

      This still works as profit source in the short run, but it annoys the customer base, undermines loyalty, encourages seeking alternatives. And once alternatives are found, you lose in the long run. You squeeze $50 for Home Premium from an user today, and lose the whole sale and the customer entirely tomorrow.

      Except the analysis hardly ever takes into account reasons why people switch to other OS, and even if it does, it comes to entirely wrong conclusions (they are cheaper, they have better marketing) while your own faults - trying to squeeze last penny off the customer - are hardly ever taken into account as the 'real evil'. People hate being cheated and perceive this as cheating. And it doesn't matter you don't and your marketing people will explain to your CEO that it really isn't cheating. For people, it is, and people will hate you for that. And will jump the ship at the first opportunity... or steal from the thieves, not a crime to many.

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  10. This may not be good for Linux. by jellomizer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    While there is nothing to do to stop it. Having Linux run on Low End systems may not be good overall.
    When most people buy a Low End System they are not happy with it...
    Packard Bell, Compaq, eMachines... They buy them because they though they are a good deal, or just because they don't have the money for a good System. They are not happy with it. Then throw a OS that people can't buy new software in the stores or the latest or even older games on it. Hardware problems causing the OS to Crash... While saving Windows for the high end systems which have better working hardware and more secure drivers Windows will run rock solid on those.
    No it is not Linux's fault but putting linux on the Low end to try to get into the Desktop Market is a poor way to go. Linux already has a knitch in the servers, and if people work half as hard in the imbedded market Linux can get a good foothold there too. Right now there are 2 strong competitors in the Desktop Market Windows and Macs. And for Desktop use Linux isn't close they are still about 6 years behind. (Which is an improvement 5 years ago they were 10 years behind)

    --
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    1. Re:This may not be good for Linux. by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      you are almost completely incorrect. Everyone that buys an E-machine or other discount budget pc is happy with them. It plays the silly card games they want, it goes online, it let's them type a letter. Aunt gertie is not going to be entering any UT3 deathmatches soon or getting herself a WoW addiction going. She is happy with that Pentuim III 500 she bought back in 1999 it does everything she wants and windows 98 works fine for her. (in face she get's less infections as most new viruses will not run on a non unicode machine)

      If I upgrade her to A old thrown away G3 mac and she can do everything she did before, she will STILL be happy.

      That is what the $200.00 walmart PC is for... Aunt Gertie, Grandma Fluffles, and creepy uncle Fred. I have supported far more happy low power pc owners than I have seen happy high power pc owners.

      Funny part, most "high power" pc owners think sony Vaio = high end. sad reality is that it's low end just trendy.

      Low end pc's are for the bulk of the computer users. They do not play games, they don't run bit torrent and watch movies on their computer. They check email, write and print out letters, do online banking and play solitaire.

      For them, these computers are typically 300-400% faster than the 10 year old monster they are using now.

      --
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    2. Re:This may not be good for Linux. by BESTouff · · Score: 2, Insightful

      While there is nothing to do to stop it. Having Linux run on Low End systems may not be good overall.

      Wrong. That's how Windows got its foothold: it started taking the lower-end of the workstation market. In fact that's often how a newcomer wins into any market: by being cheaper.
      I think Microsoft should be afraid.

    3. Re:This may not be good for Linux. by smchris · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yup, just waiting for the public paradigm shift. The three truths are:

      1. Granny wants email and the web.
      2. Granny might use OpenOffice.org to type up a letter if keeping the printer running isn't too challenging. Maybe upload pictures from her camera for processing if she's really hip. Downloading and printing some .pdf tax forms? I don't know. I think that's Hacker Granny.
      3. No way, no how Granny is going to _maintain_ her computer -- Windows OR linux -- so that's a wash and we can just quit agonizing about the issue.

      And "Granny" could probably account for half the home computer users out there. So why should she pay for Windows, much less Office? She isn't using the capabilities of free linux.

      And, yes, any piece of crap new computer is fine for those things. Most computers from the last six years would be fine. The hardware is a commodity. All it has to do is run linux.

      This just has to become common wisdom.

    4. Re:This may not be good for Linux. by Junta · · Score: 2, Informative

      I would call it a potentially fair assessment. My one complaint is using the word 'Linux'. Linux could mean Gentoo (definitely not new user firendly) to Linux From Scratch (and if you thought Gentoo was complex), to Ubuntu. That out of the way, if you could find someone who has not used Windows to any significant extent since before Win95 released, and sat them down at an Ubuntu 7.10 system and a XP system and asked them to do some tasks I think they'd find Ubuntu easier. At the surface, XP comparison to 7.10 is somewhat unfair, as 7.10 is about 5 years newer, but I've never touched Vista and I think most people wouldn't accuse XP of being significantly harder than Vista to use. Particularly if you consider what Microsoft is actually technically responsible for versus what third parties have done underneath.

      First off, there are things that are measured by what you don't have to do. The single platform update system tracks and automatically notifies of updates for all the programs they have (if they use add/remove to find and install the applications), not just the 'operating system' components. Did Freeciv set up an auto-updater? No, but Ubuntu set one up for them. Same for a staggering number of programs. Under Windows, you'll probably have at least a half-dozen auto-updater programs running (i.e. microsoft's, apple's, steam, java updater, etc etc), but even then *not* actively track some software that could leave you in a tight spot. So ask a user to update an Ubuntu system, they get to select a single item, click check for updates, and done. Under Windows, ask to update all the software, it's painful.

      Ask a user to browse a flash enabled web site. Firefox will interact with apt and download the right thing automatically, and it starts getting updated. Internet explorer, I don't know what it will do, but whatever happens, it won't add it to an updater automatically unless Adobe sets it up for themselves. Firefox under windows will prompt the user and user does merely need to click a button to install Flash, but again, no auto-update.

      Ask a user to install software by role. Under Ubuntu, they'd probably have noticed the Add/Remove menu item (admittedly, it's not obvious that includes intall or even distinguishes it from adding and removing menu items, but to their defense, it seems to be an attempt to mimic Windows terminology). If the role was one of the categories on the left, they'd click it and peruse the list. Failing that, they type it into the search field on that page and up it comes. Under Windows, they may have noticed the Add/Remove programs and then go to that. They will probably poke and prod and realize it's not even remotely meaningfully a way to 'add' programs, only to remove them. Then I'd guess they'd go to the internet and google around until they found an answer, in a medium not intended to present things in a targeted fashion.

      Now, ask that user to find that application and run it. Under Windows, the program list gets incredibly large (ease individual program seems to decide it needs a whole submenu item, while 99% of applications in ubuntu only get a single menu entry by default, under an appropriate category. To be fair, this may be more the fault of the third party application providers though, who somehow feel the need to have at least one (maybe more) icons to start their program, at least one icon for a readme file, and at least one icon for uninstalling).

      Now, give them a USB stick and have them stick it into the system. Under XP, it might not mount and instead ask for drivers, or it might go ahead and mount. Now they have to figure out which arbitrary drive letter means 'the usb device I just inserted'. XP does segregate things, so the search would be limited to removable devices at least. Under Ubuntu though, a much friendlier name simply appears to describe what is inserted.

      The thing that make Microsoft 'easier' is that they were first with something usable in the x86 space. The world in terms of both users and softwar

      --
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  11. Re:After burners are outlawed. by ciaohound · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "people who want Windows will pay for it"

    Yeah, but they probably aren't the low end, now, are they? I think a lot of people are fed up with virus software updates and other fine Windows features. The high end of the market is moving to Mac, and the low end -- at least the more knowledgeable among them -- are moving to Linux. I live near Howard County, Maryland, which has an award-winning public library system. The free internet access is spectacular there; walk in, sit down, start using, no waiting, no library card required. Guess what operating system and applications it uses? And no one complains about it not being Windows.

    --
    Oh, yeah, it's not easy to pad these out to 120 characters.
  12. Re:Apples and oranges by rolfc · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I wouldn't say that! I would say that the linux-solution would be superior functionality for the money, and probably in absolute functionality as well. An Exchange server farm has a limited featureset compared to a debian-server.

  13. I'd like this to be true, but ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Op-ed from a pro Linux site isn't exactly an unbiased "news" source. Yes desktop Linux is going to become a bit more common, yes we'll see more entry level boxes shipping with it ... but MS' virtual monopoly on the OS market is not going to suddenly go away. If this becomes a serious threat to them they'll release something like XP starter edition for next to nothing, or even at a net income to the vendor after paid crapware pre-installs are added on. At that point Linux loses the main advantage that most people (initially at least) care about : that it's free-as-in-beer.

  14. Apples and apples by IBBoard · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They're comparing Granny Smiths apples to Golden Delicious apples:

    Set of computers that can run all required email and office apps (the latest versions) along with a server to support the mail etc, all based on Linux

    Vs

    Set of computers that can run all required email and office apps (the latest versions) along with a server to support the mail etc, all based on Vista

    The only difference is that the base specs required for one is much higher than the other, which is the whole point of the article.

    Okay, so it might not be as viable in a huge company where everyone (especially admins) already have Windows training, but for a ~100 person or less SME (Small/Medium Enterprise) then the huge savings on costs would be a boon.

    1. Re:Apples and apples by SargentDU · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, even at the huge company, having to buy new hardware to handle a Vista upgrade vs. using existing hardware with Linux sounds like an enormous cost savings. Linux boxes with KDE is enough like windows XP or earlier to have little learning curve too. The only kicker is a package for coordinating calendars, etc.

  15. The arguement... by MMC+Monster · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In the grand /. tradition, I haven't RTFA. However, I guess that the argument is that as the price of hardware comes down, the price of commercial software makes up a bigger part of the total expenditure.

    Customers will balk when they realize that they use the computer for just internet and simple word processing and maybe some multimedia.

    The problem is, in the real world Linux isn't even on the radar of most individuals. If they did hear about it, it's probably something from a few years ago and not about one of the modern distributions.

    The solution: Whoever sells these cheap machines has to advertise. It should be simple enough. A short TV add showing wireless internet and desktop productivity apps for a $200 machine like the OLPC would sell them like hotcakes. Especially when you say that the price includes full versions of all the software. (You can even have two people discuss during the ad about how they hate trial versions that came with their last computer, and comparing it to amarok, k3b, openoffice.org, and digikam. Especially mention seamless integration with mp3 players and digital cameras.)

    --
    Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
  16. Re:So Programmers Should Just Work For Free? by Fred_A · · Score: 4, Funny

    Yes, Microsoft makes money on its software. I still fail to see why this is a bad thing. Does anyone believe Microsoft should gather several thousand software engineers together and then ask them to work for free? I find your bold business ideas to be very interesting.
    Please get in touch for implementation details.

    sballmer@microsoft.com

    --

    May contain traces of nut.
    Made from the freshest electrons.
  17. Re:So Programmers Should Just Work For Free? by module0000 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Not all free software is "free" per-say. Look at MySQL, making money while we all use their software. That's just one example, so here are a few more that produce free products while still earning significant income:

    Sun Microsystems
    Novell
    Mozilla Foundation
    Spiceworks(a personal favorite)

    --
    Trackball users will be first against the wall.
  18. Re:So Programmers Should Just Work For Free? by Sterling+Christensen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Many slashdotters fail to make any distinction between the honest hard working programmers/researchers who deserve their pay and the not so honest business execs, lawyers, and lobbiests on some of whom Microsoft's bad behavior can be blamed, lumping them all together as a single entity: "M$".

    Nobody's hoping to see software engineers starve, it's just easy to get carried away hating Microsoft for all the monopolizing, anti-FOSS, and other damage it's responsible for. Can you really blame the GP for having no sympathy for Microsoft's bottom line?

  19. Tragedy of the Commons by mark99 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    MS can create a cheap version of Vista or XP with very little effort. And because they are earning *something* on it, I suspect in the long run it will get better support than anything that can be had for free. Commercial version of Linux are of course another story.

    I think Linux cannot succeed on price alone. It has to be enough better that people will invest the time needed to change their habits - which today drive them straight to Windows.

  20. Prediction... by itsdapead · · Score: 3, Interesting

    These devices aren't going to directly hit MS's products - what they could do is cost them mindshare and threaten the future of their monopoly.

    Products like the eeePC occupy a precarious niche just below cheap "regular" laptops - put a bigger screen and a CD drive on them and there'll be a cheaper Dell laptop - so while they may be successful for their manufacturers they're not going to make a big dent in PC sales. People will buy them as "extra" machines for kids or as spare "take anywhere" machines (don't buy a £2000 ultra-portable - buy a £1000 desktop or large screen laptop plus an eeePC for when you don't need the power or don't want to risk carrying your main machine). But if they find that, out-of-the-box, they can connect to web and EMAIL and open most of their documents with these things called "Firefox", "Thunderbird" and "Open Office" then they might have their eyes opened to other possibilities.

    Remember, MS's real monopoly is Office, not Windows. How many lUsers have you met who, when asked what version of windows they are running, respond with their Office version? However, I was in a school (in England) recently and saw a big (homemade) poster on the wall saying "Haven't got MS Office at home? Have you tried the free alternative from www.OpenOffice.org?" - so there is hope for the world.

    If I were MS right now I'd be busily developing something like "Vista Lite Edition" that could be sold on a memory stick alongside eeePCs and the like for about $25, probably including a stripped down office. ISTR they did do something similar in some countries but it was perceived as "Windows - crippled edition". It might be an easier sell if it was linked to built-to-a-price "appropriate technology" hardware.

    --
    In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
  21. SMEs aren't interested in Linux by Colin+Smith · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You have it almost exactly backwards. Speaking from bitter experience.

    Their costs towards their IT infrastructure simply aren't large enough to worry about license costs. Microsoft already have this market. SMEs simply buy PCs with windows already installed, and use SBS on the back end. Their savings from Linux are in the thousands, not hundreds of thousands or millions. It isn't worth their while to switch. Especially given the fact they can't afford to hire competent admins and so are stuck with whomever is locally available.

    Large companies on the other hand, are a completely different kettle of fish. They can save millions by making use of Linux, and that's exactly what they do. The CTO or CIO's may or may not be aware of it but pretty much every large company out there has Linux just about everywhere from file servers to RDBMS servers to web application servers. They can afford to hire competent admins who can run Linux as well as their other Unix systems and who understand the mathematics of I.T. systems.

    The market for Linux is not SMEs. I've been there and tried to sell it. The real market for Linux is on the big end. Multinationals, governments etc. They can save vast sums.

    --
    Deleted
  22. Cannot or will not? by Bright+Apollo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think there's a potential goldmine for Microsoft just looming off to the side.

    If Microsoft made Windows 2000 Pro available for $20 per copy in 2008, then shuttered it; and Windows XP Pro/64 Pro for $40 in 2008, then 2009, then shuttered it, imagine how easy it would be for many 'cloned' copies to get right. Now imagine how easy it would be for Microsoft to compete against Linux in the low-end market. Microsoft would be able to say -- which Linux cannot -- "Our OS works with Microsoft Office natively, including Exchange". The real cash cow is untouched, i.e. Office, and Microsoft finally gets into the "sell the blades, not the razor" business once and for all.

    -BA

  23. Re:Apples and oranges by SharpFang · · Score: 2, Informative

    They are not equivalent but that's not entirely the question.
    The question is do they provide satisfactory functionality?

    Because actually, 100 sub-$200 PC systems running Win98SE would probably work faster and be cheaper in means of TCO, and quite likely provide all the functionality needed as well (with exception of stability and security).

    If I need email, office, file sharing and some, get the work done in acceptable comfort, you ask yourself what you need. You may get Vista and $1000 PCs, you can get XP and $500 PCs, or Linux and $300 PCs and the user experience and efficiency of work will be the same. You can get $150 PCs and Win98 too, but the risk of data loss and intrusion is prohibitory, otherwise it would have the work done as well. This way Linux can compete just fine and seems to be the best choice.

    OTOH if you need a development environment of 4GB RAM quad-core 4GHZ CPU computers for all the 100 desktops, the price difference between OSes and their efficiency overhead becomes much lower. Linux doesn't fare just as well here, especially if you need to run WINE to have some essential apps working. If you need a high-end hardware not because it's required to run the OS, but because your application requires it, choice of the OS should be guided by other factors than just price of purchase or TCO. Although not disqualified here (by far), Linux doesn't have the upper hand of "vastly cheaper setup to get the same things done" here.

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    45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
  24. Re:So Programmers Should Just Work For Free? by Gonoff · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No. I doubt you will find many of us who object to the idea of having money. It is the methods of getting it and the attitudes that MS have that people here may not be happy with.
    In a place like /. I am unable to speak for others, so I shall speak for myself.

    I don't like the fact that software is sent out before it is ready, just because some manager types want it to be released now.
    If I buy clothes, I assume things are made and they didn't just ship me the cloth and expect me to sew it together myself.

    When they release a new product, they will tell us all how fantastic it is.
    A couple of years later, when it is about ready for use, they drop it and bring out the next item. They then tell us how this fixes the many shortcomings of its precescessor. I am told how bad it was. I know that in a couple of years, I will be told how rubbish this one is too.

    Microsoft bears at least some, and perhaps much, of the blame for the mess we are all in with patents and copyrights.
    So they think that GPL is socialism and thus theft? I think that Closed source is protectionist racketeering and thus theft.

    When they were small and growing, they relied on the fact that lots of people "borrowed" their software. This enabled them to grow. It was profiting from theft.
    Now they are in a position of market dominance, they object to what they once relied on. Stealing is wrong, so when people ask me for a dodgy copy of Office, I point them to a free alternative. I object to their hypocrisy, not the fact that they object to people stealing.

    If I buy something, I expect to be able to use what I buy. I expect to be able to sell what I buy, when I no longer want it. I do this with books and cars, so why are MS different?

    As I started, I don't object to making money. I just object to some methods of extortion and hypocrisy. I work for money and would love to have more. I will not hit people over the head to get it. My basic objection is that they are no longer a software company. They are a protection racket.

    --
    I'll see your Constitution and raise you a Queen.
  25. Linux fanboy hypocrisy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    More /. hypocrisy.

    You guys always talk of Linux taking over, but at the same time demand that govt. tie Microsoft down in monopoly regulations. If Linux is going to take over, then Windows is not a monopoly, by definition. Which is it slashdot? Is Windows doomed and therefore not a monopoly or is it the other way around?

    1. Re:Linux fanboy hypocrisy by HikingStick · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Under U.S. law, a company does not need to be a true monopoly (i.e., the only player in a sector) to be classified a monopoly. The threshold there (imlu, ianal) is whether or not the company yields monopoly-like influence over the market, including the creation of significant barriers to entry for potential competitors.

      That said, the growing success of Linux (and the Mac OS)will ensure that one day--who knows how soon--Microsoft will use the Linux saturation levels as an argument against sanctions it faced (faces) as a monopoly. That's when the OS war will finally reach the point of full engagement.

      --
      I use irony whenever I can, but my shirts are still wrinkled...
  26. Linux as "poor man's operating system"? by wvmarle · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If Linux becomes the O/S of choice for cheap hardware, then I hope GNU/Linux will not get the name of "poor man's operating system". While it may be free of charge, it is not is a label the software deserves. Oh well Lindows or whatever it's now could be "poor man's Windows", they deserve that I guess. Seems to be the market they're targeting anyways.

  27. "Linux for the Desktop": a wrong way of thought by pimpimpim · · Score: 3, Insightful
    You keep using that word "Desktop". I think we should forget about the year where linux would become ready for the Desktop. By the time it would be there, Desktops will be outfashioned anyway. Instead, focus on the year where linux will be ready for mobile devices, which is more or less NOW. The advantage of mobile devices is the fact that driver support can be optimized just for the device itself, and a small set of extension cards. Just look at the new Nokia handheld computers and the EEE. Also, it is the range where people will accept a low end system if it also means they will get a better battery time. And it is a range where minimal use of memory is needed!

    What is also good for linux in this market, is that Windows seems to not be able to easily adjust to different form factors. They try to put windows XP on the EEE, but everything will be unreadable on the small screen! You can make icons and fonts bigger, but does that help? Making an interface for mobile devices requires a 'paradigm shift' (to put it in managerspeak), the Xandros developers for the EEE got that right with their simple menu. Nokia got that right. But even Windows CE doesn't get it, still thinking to much in the good-ol' "Desktop" idea.

    --
    molmod.com - computing tips from a molecular modeling
  28. Eee by wytcld · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The ASUS Eees are good. Yeah, MS is set to sell XP for them for another $40, but their default PDA=like screens are idiot-proof, and it's simple to switch them to a clean, ASUS-customized KDE. The screen is good. The keyboard's good. There's nothing cheap about them except maybe the button bar beneath the touchpad - and you can get the same function from the touchpad itself. And there are no rough edges in the Linux experience. It's not for games, but it boots and loads apps plenty fast. It even has mplayer working out of the box - no extra installation steps for a modern browsing experience (as with, say, Ubuntu).

    --
    "with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
  29. Big surprise. by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Desktop Linux has a recent commentary on the inevitable growth of Linux on the cheaper end of the desktop market


    So, a web site dedicated to Linux says that Linux is going to take over a market segment. Big surprise. Expecting anything different would be like expecting Microsoft to say Linux is the best option for a market segment.

    This is not news. It is not even opinion. It is propaganda.
    --
    There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
  30. More AC BS by hellfire · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I love how an AC has posted this obviously inflamatory drivel, and continue to marvel that the mods mod crap like this up.

    1) The US and European union have both declared MS to be a monopoly.
    2) A monopoly in legal terms is not someone who owns 100% of the market, but owns an overwhelming portion of the market. Windows is at what, 90%? 95%?
    3) Worse still, MS has been shown, time and time again, that they use that monopoly influence to bully PC vendors. MS hasn't been able to use that influence as much because people in government are watching them, and because the PC vendors are finally getting some balls.

    --

    "All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"

  31. Re:So Programmers Should Just Work For Free? by moranar · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Sorry, those honest programmers are working for a dishonest corp, which makes them a bit less than honest. With their intelligence, they could do better. Next excuse, please.

    --
    "I think it would be a good idea!"
    Gandhi, about Internet Security
  32. Re:Linux is shit by calebt3 · · Score: 4, Funny

    You should have included the "Netcraft confirms it:"

  33. Nitpicking over analogies by cp.tar · · Score: 3, Informative

    Keep in mind that to do this, you entirely re-complie the kernel (and probably half the OS, i'm not much of a linux user). So yes, it's a swiss army knife but you have to put an edge on each blade when you pull it out.

    Not really, no.

    A Swiss Army Knife has different blades, tools and utensils for different purposes.
    Each platform is a different purpose; a recompiled kernel (and userland) is a different blade/tool/utensil.

    It is not users that need to recompile the kernel, which would be putting an edge on each and every blade -- it's the distro maintainers' job. Users just select the blade they need.

    --
    Ignore this signature. By order.
    1. Re:Nitpicking over analogies by CmdrGravy · · Score: 4, Funny

      The Swiss army knife has many blades, true.

      However a better analogy is to imagine the swiss army knife as a giant multi dimensional universal army knife which exists simultaneously at every size imaginable and is always both clasped and unclasped in every dimension and contains every physical tool known to man. In this scenario every distro ( in an unbroken continuum from the very first to the very last their will ever be ) would form a different polyphasic bladeset comprising a separate macro dimension representing each individual developer there ever will be. Crucially each developer is allowed both retrograde and anterograde movement but the blade will still remain both open and closed and ascend forward in the time dimension in phase with the complete amount of work encapsulated by the sum of developer dimensions. In this scenario a computer can be represented as a geometric qualiphat suspended at the binary root position of the blade space. Clearly a user need not necessarily be a user but it can be easily seen that in order for the pardigm to ring true they are for all intents and purposes encapsulated them very selves in the developer fumblrinian work cube. From there it's simple to prove that any particular blade/distro can be installed on any compatible hardware as many times as you like.

    2. Re:Nitpicking over analogies by cp.tar · · Score: 2

      Gentoo is a special case.

      Gentoo is a Swiss Army Knife you buy disassembled, selecting just the blades and tools you want, sharpen them just the way you like it, assemble them in the order you prefer, all the while consulting a thick manual and several hundred owners of a similar knife on the fine points of tuning the highly optional spring that does the tedious work of unfolding the blade for you. Then you configure the blades to sharpen themselves automatically.

      After tweaking the bloody knife[1] for three whole days, you have a lean, mean killing machine[2] that is the envy of all your friends, neither of whom dares even touch it.

      I'm a Gentoo user, I should know ;)

      [1] At some point, you must have cut yourself. Non-fatally, of course, but you have to have something to show and brag about besides the knife.
      [2] After adding the unsupported blowdart module, at least. The gun module was kicked from Portage because users had complained it made way too much noise.

      --
      Ignore this signature. By order.
  34. Re:So Programmers Should Just Work For Free? by HW_Hack · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The issue with M$ is not that they make money or that they are the dominate OS ---- When you combine incompetence + arrogance + Ruthless Biz practices --- not just once - but over and over .... people tend to catch on and come to resent this.

    A "new technology" coming up from the bottom (low cost) is the traditional way to upset a market. And M$ knows this.

    Programmers don't need to work for free -- low cost PC devices will still require lots of programming (integration of SW and improved applications + continual OS tweaks) from cradle to grave. They will be employed by the OEM and 3rd party support companies. Just because you (a tech head) can get Linux for free has no correlation to selling a product that has a tailor made + polished SW load. It just means the total SW + OS package needs to be awesome and under say $35 per machine. And many people would pay some sort of a very modest ($8) subscription fee for the latest tweaks + upgrades + support.

    Last week I got to play with an EEPC --- very neat device for $300

    --
    Its not the years, its the mileage .....
  35. IT'S STILL A WIN FOR MICROSOFT by asphaltjesus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    One of the myriad of benefits of owning a monopoly is the ability to set price. (price maker) Economic history is full of examples where the monopoly owner temporarily lowers prices to eliminate low-end competitors.

    This low-end desktop market is owned by Microsoft. They allow it to exist to give the illusion of competition. If they want that segment, they'll take it simply by throwing some money at it and eliminate the competitor. Meanwhile, the low-end provider scrapes by. Novell certainly isn't going to beat Microsoft. Mark Shuttleworth doesn't have the resources to do it either.

    Where it counts, Linux distros are simply a negotiating tool for enterprises/agencies to get a lower price/bigger bribe out of Microsoft. That lower price is STILL HIGHER than the price in a vaguely competitive market.

    Vista? Oh yeah, you'll be able to pirate it just like XP because every software company knows that's the best way to introduce future customers.

    --
    Got Trader Joe's? friendwich.com RSS feeds work now!
  36. Re:Offtopic but WHAT? by spxero · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...the Vaio SZ range is shit-hot.

    So you're staying it's a steaming pile of crap?

  37. carrot vs no carrot by chocolatetrumpet · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Making money is fine - I am happy to pay for stuff, including software and music.

    But there is something riding against commercial vs. free software, and it's a double edged sword: feature creep.

    In the commercial world, software has to keep adding features in order to sell the next version and keep the profits rolling in. This might help an otherwise under-featured bit of software gain widely sought-after functionality. However, we all know there comes a time when a software package is "just right," yet continues to add features and functionality that are unwanted and only complicate usability (e.g., winamp, nero, etc.)

    With free software, there is no incentive to add unnecessary features. This is why I believe that in the long run, free software will dominate the marketplace, because it can afford to not give users features they don't need. But it can be difficult for a sophisticated package to take on critical functionality without a carrot.

    Look at the state of video editing on Linux. Yes I have used Kino and Cinelerra, but anyone who has used them knows how tricky and unstable these tools are compared to, say, iMovie.

    Free will win in the end, unless commercial software finds a way to bust the bloat.

    --
    Spoon not. Fork, or fork not. There is no spoon.
    1. Re:carrot vs no carrot by pammon · · Score: 2, Funny

      With free software, there is no incentive to add unnecessary features. Uhh - you've used Firefox, right?
  38. That's why Linux's market share will grow by Murrquan · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Precisely BECAUSE no one knows about it. Like you said, very few people understand the distinctions between OSes -- so they won't know they bought a PC that runs Linux, they'll know they bought a PC for under $200. So what if it can't run Bioshock? Who buys a $200 PC to play modern games? Once they figure out Add/Remove Programs, they'll never go back to the store to buy more software anyway.

    At least, that's the optimistic view of the situation. And I do like to hope. If this doesn't work, we'll just try something else! But the gPCs flying off the shelves at Wal-Mart do give one pause, and make one wonder if this might not be the wave of the future. Think about it -- this whole "mainstream acceptance" thing would have been RIDICULOUS five or ten years ago. Now we're seriously debating it. Who's to say where Linux won't be in another few years?

  39. Re:So Programmers Should Just Work For Free? by LS · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I know several developers who work for Microsoft, and they are invariably intelligent - the way a cop is intelligent. They have a certain type of intelligence, but not a general intelligence that informs them at a greater level about the scheme of things. Just like cops, they also think that they are doing a great thing for the world and are helping out the misguided unwashed masses by unleashing their work upon the world. They are deluded pompous bastards, make no mistake. I can't imagine what their lawyers and marketing people must be like. good grief

    --
    There is a fine line between being a cultivated citizen and being someone else's crop. - A. J. Patrick Liszkie
  40. Re:Wishful Thinking, (again) by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Few of these venues provide and/or promote machines with Linux pre-installed.

    If you RTFA you'd note one of the major points was that several pre-installed Linux machines from several vendors are making their way to mainstream venues. Note, the vendors you list are well and good, but you're missing Wal-mart and Costco both of which sell considerably more computers than several of the retailers you mention.

    The average consumer has a very vague idea of what an Operating system is.

    This is very true and often overlooked. The market is all about pre-installed OS's.

    The fact that PCs are cheap and that Linux is "free" doesn't really give Linux as big an advantage as many think. Price isn't as important as exposure.

    Another point of the article was that as prices come down and you look at lower portions of the market, the cost difference between a Windows pre-install and a Linux preinstall becomes more and more significant. If you're comparing a $1200 Linux box to a $1275 Windows box, many consumers are less likely to take a chance or go out of their way. When you're comparing a $250 Linux box to a $325 Windows box, the market is much more likely to be price sensitive and make a change based on price, if given the option. If the market continues in this direction, what is going to happen when users are considering a $100 Linux box or a $300 Windows box because the cost of running Windows includes not only the license, but also more hardware to accommodate its larger footprint for the same performance?

    Then, in that same mall, try and find someplace selling PCs with Linux pre-installed. This is not an indication that Linux is about to take over any market.

    The fact that you're starting to be able to find a Linux box on some of those shelves, however, is a sign that Linux might be starting a growth spurt on the low end. The weathervane, by the way, is not the mall, but Wal-mart... that is where the low end shoppers are.

  41. Re:So Programmers Should Just Work For Free? by notabaggins · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yes, Microsoft makes money on its software. I still fail to see why this is a bad thing. Does anyone believe Microsoft should gather several thousand software engineers together and then ask them to work for free?

    So what, exactly, is the argument again? Everyone on this planet has a right to be payed for their hard work EXCEPT someone who spends 4 years at a university learning how to develop software? They should work for free, so that their hard work can then be given away for free? Sigh. Do we have to go over this again?

    It's "free" as in "freedom". Not "free" as in "free beer".

    Locking up and hiding code in the "proprietary" model is actually the one that fails. Every proprietary software program out there sprouts endless "features" to drive upgrades until you reach a point of utter unusability. The point of the proprietary model is money, not usability. And it never can be. Once a product is done, then what? You can't sell any more copies can you? So you beat on it senselessly until you have word processors doing spreadsheets and spreadsheets doing browsing and browsers doing email and email doing viruses.

    In an open model, there may be many people who do not get "paid" per se. They may write code that does something useful for them then contribute it back. They do get benefit in that they end up with software that satisfies their needs. Others who have the same needs also benefit. How is that a loss?

    There's no incentive for throwing everything and the kitchen sink into the software. If nobody needs "feature X", nobody bothers to write the code. Open software will, inexorably, move toward an optimal state. Only those "features" somebody finds useful enough to do something about (for her or his own benefit first) will enter the code base.

    (Yes, that's the abstract ideal and reality sometimes goes wonky but I stand by the concept)

    Further, one of the latest driving forces in the open/free software world are companies. They are paying their programmers. And they are obtaining benefit from the work of those programmers. But by opening up the code, they also obtain benefit from the work of others who contribute something which that person needs or sees usefulness in. Said programmer--regardless of who he or she works for and is or is not paid by--gains benefit in having useful software.

    What's happening is the "shrink wrap" model--which is a recent phenomena in the field--is dying. And it's not even the bigger part of the field. Most programmers (I've seen figures as high as 95%) are doing "in house" software. They're not going to lose their jobs if, say, Quicken tanks and is replaced by some FOSS software. If all "shrink wrap" software tanks, if the whole sector disappears, the impact to the field would likely be less than the implosion of the "tech bubble".

    It's a transient model that's dying out. Big whoopee.

    Software is about getting things done. Not about driving upgrade money. That's why MS (and others) will ultimately fail. The need to drive upgrades corrupts software. Ultimately, it will fail to be useful. Software is a tool, not an end in itself. You make money by enabling people to get something useful done. MySQL does it. And they give their software away.

    (For that matter, have you noticed the cell phone business? They're giving away handsets. Are they crazy? No, they're making huge profits. Think about it.)

    Finally, and I think importantly, the FOSS world imitates the way we do science. Information is open and shared. That process has catapulted our civilization from horse draw carriages to me sitting here sending messages via satellite Internet and in only about two centuries. The system works.

    Or hadn't you noticed the Internet? Open protocols. The people who created them were paid but the information is belched out freely all over the place for anybody and his dog to use. And it works.

    Funny that...
  42. But they're not selling Linux PCs by Burz · · Score: 2, Insightful

    To the customer, they are selling a one-off jobber with a combination of programs and UI features that represent no platform in particular. Even if they have looked at other "Linux" PCs, they are not likely to see something they recognize in a highly customized Enlightenment desktop. If they buy the system they

    Linux boosters are showing their derangement here: Promoting "Linux" to end-users is like promoting Gecko to people who want a browser. But Linux and Gecko are effectively invisible to non-techies. The difference is that Mozilla are not stupid enough to work on only the Gecko engine, and then let umpteen distros implement various browsers and promote them all as "Gecko". Instead they made a complete product Firefox that users can consistently recognize and use, and protect their trademarks such that other browsers using Mozilla technology are not confused with Firefox in the slightest bit.

    In short: Stop confusing end-users and yourselves with "desktop Linux" promotion. If you must promote a FOSS operating system to the public, then focus on a specific free distro that adheres to the LSB Desktop spec.

    Again, stop confusing people!!