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iPhone 1.1.3 Update Confirmed, Breaks Apps and Unlocks

Posted by Zonk on from the peak-into-the-itech-future dept.

An anonymous reader writes "Gizmodo has gathered conclusive evidence which confirms that the iPhone Firmware 1.1.3 update is 100% real. It installs only from iTunes using the obligatory Apple private encryption key, which nobody has. The list of new features, like GPS-like triangulation positioning in Google Maps, has been confirmed too. Apparently it will be coming out next week, but there's bad news as expected: it breaks the unlocks, patches the previous vulnerabilities used by hackers and takes away all your third-party applications."

67 of 412 comments (clear)

  1. Just need to wait until it's jailbreaked... by Kagura · · Score: 3, Insightful

    My phone is activated and I use AT&T. There is no way I am upgrading until I can use my apps with it, too. And it'll suck, period, if I have to reinstall all my apps. I would consider doing so for the GPS triangulation.

    1. Re:Just need to wait until it's jailbreaked... by Kagura · · Score: 2

      Yeah, but outside of a major metropolitan area it is useless. I live in North Carolina, and even though I'm in a medium-sized city Navizon doesn't work. When I used it during a trip to D.C., it was spot on and highly accurate. I'm hoping that native support might change something, like which services' cell towers are used to perform the triangulation.

    2. Re:Just need to wait until it's jailbreaked... by BosstonesOwn · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well it uses the truenorth system. http://www.trueposition.com/.

      Cingular and T mobile currently have in place already to assist in e911 location awareness. It triangulates with the use of as many towers and antenna's as it can based on signal levels to each locating modulation unit to give you the location of where you are. Not very accurate in heavily developed cities where skyscrapers block a majority of the signal.

      Worked with them before , I went to work at Sun , pretty cool tech.

      It's a shame that they chose to use it to provide a service that the iphone really should have already had. Seams like they are trying to give people an app they get a revenue stream from instead of letting you use other available 3rd party apps where they don't profit.

      --
      This package Does Not Contain a Winner
    3. Re:Just need to wait until it's jailbreaked... by longacre · · Score: 3, Informative

      This isn't unique to iPhone. The beta of the latest version of Google Maps Mobile (except the Palm version) offers a "My Location" feature for non-GPS phones, and is also integrated with GPS.

      --
      Airplane Photos, Airline News, Planespotting Guides
    4. Re:Just need to wait until it's jailbreaked... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Morons...
      Apple isn't moronic for their behavior in regard to locking down the iPhone, just hostile to their most loyal customers. Today, that's known as "good business practice".
      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    5. Re:Just need to wait until it's jailbreaked... by tacocat · · Score: 2, Informative

      What did you expect? You purchased a product from a company. Said Company makes very clear that they do not authorize you to use third party applications and so when you do... they have an interest in tearing your mods out of the software. That's the nature of the product right now.

      I don't think Apple is evil but they are working on a very fine edge right now. They are taking on the entire cellular industry with a product that they have tried previously to launch (Anyone remember Newton?) with updates to the 21st century. It's a major project trying to consolidate so many products into one.

      Unlike the notebooks and PC's they cannot afford to have anyone's third part software screw up the iPhone. The fallout on the consumer market would be too damaging for them to take on right now. Even if it was someone elses fault for a bad product, Apple would be blamed for it.

      Add to this the fact that they originally delayed the Mac OSX launch to get the iPhone launched last year. I would suspect that they have just barely managed to release their products with the stability that Apple strives for. With that delicate stability, third party software isn't going to help them.

      I do believe that eventually Apple will be required through consumer pressure to open up the iPhone but they are not about to do it right now. Once they get some market share and solid progress in the market, they can start taking a more open road.

      But for now, they are taking on a lot of companies: Verizon, AllTel, T-Mobile, Microsoft, LG, Nokia in this bid. they are not about to take up company with some 1/2 baked software that maybe works most of the time.

    6. Re:Just need to wait until it's jailbreaked... by coolGuyZak · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's a shame that they chose to use it to provide a service that the iphone really should have already had. Seams like they are trying to give people an app they get a revenue stream from instead of letting you use other available 3rd party apps where they don't profit.

      I really don't understand where you're coming from here, particularly as the Maps application is third party--lest you forget, it's designed & maintained by Google.

      I highly doubt Apple's primary intent with that partnership is profit. More likely, the partnership smokescreens an information exchange program with Google. I'm not entirely sure what was exchanged, but I wouldn't be surprised if Apple's SDK resembles (or even implements) Android.

      We'll know if I'm right in February.

    7. Re:Just need to wait until it's jailbreaked... by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 2, Informative

      It works like a champ for me in both downtown Chicago and the western suburbs (Saint Charles area). It shows my position down to 800 meters in Chicago and 1700 meters in the suburbs.

  2. And lo... by ravenspear · · Score: 5, Funny

    I felt a great disturbance in the airwaves, as if millions of helpless iPhone apps cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.

    They cried out, "don't raze me bro!!!"

    1. Re:And lo... by Dr.+Hellno · · Score: 5, Funny

      when I get the update I'll tell it, "these are not the apps you are looking for."

    2. Re:And lo... by moro_666 · · Score: 3, Funny

      I can already imagine the scene.

      Poor iPhone shaking on the ground, a running helicopter in the distance.
      A fanatic iPhone hacker tries to twiddle with the touch-screen to get the damn big investment to work, next to him stands Jobs in a long latex costume, holding a firmware update next to the hacker's head. He says "Unlock this" and fires the update 1.1.3.

      But Neo isn't there, Neo is home, enjoying a simple unlocked phone that has 3G and tons on applications and just works (and it was cheaper) :-)

      When iphone came out, a lot of people made the noise "locked phone ? forget it mate, i will go and buy something else" ... some others fought back and said "oh come on, we will hack it, ha-ha-ha" ... who is laughing now with their several hundred $ investment ?

      --

      I'd tell you the chances of this story being a dupe, but you wouldn't like it.
  3. Walled Garden by Divebus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm not a developer, but I'm really thinking this Walled Garden thing is for the birds - which makes me want one of these less and less.

    --

    Most of the stuff on /. won't survive first contact with facts.
    1. Re:Walled Garden by kannibal_klown · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well they're *supposedly* opening up 3rd party apps next year when they release a real SDK. I guess only time will tell.

      As for unlocking them, eh. The only thing I'd really want that for is for when I go to Switzerland each year. Instead of paying the higher AT&T fees I could go with a prepaid card over there.

    2. Re:Walled Garden by digitalchinky · · Score: 2

      No, you mean there will be a manufacturer approved method of creating 3rd party applications, it has nothing to do with legality, and everything to do with the corporate bottom line. I'll likely be similar to the current Symbian 3rd edition stuff, pretty much useless for the types of people that are currently doing these modifications.

    3. Re:Walled Garden by Mikey-San · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm not a developer, but I'm really thinking this Walled Garden thing is for the birds - which makes me want one of these less and less.

      Okay, don't buy one. Apple's responsibility is not to you, the hacker (I love when I get the chance to use that word in the traditional sense), but to the person who buys the device and will never do anything unsupported with it. Why? Because these people either don't want to deal with incompatibilities or problems resulting from an update, or because they can't deal with them.

      Normal users don't want to "update their phone" (which is a weird concept to many consumers in the first place) and have it break in some way. Because the official SDK isn't out yet, and there are no guidelines that third-party developers are following, Apple has no realistic way to support their software across updates. Attempting to do so at this point would be a massive, stupid waste of the available time of their engineers.

      "Well," you're thinking, "the users who install unsupported third-party apps would be able to deal with bugs, or understand." No, most of them are going to whine and bitch on the Internet like they do now when Apple reverts their phone to a standard, known-good state during an update. But even if I'm wrong about that, it doesn't matter. The responsibility Apple's engineers have to the customer base on the whole is to guarantee that this phone that people bought "just works".

      But this presents a problem, right? It makes this amazing portable device only what Apple wants. For some, this is a real issue. You can't disagree with that, really. To solve this problem, you need a supported SDK. And that's coming. Officially. That means developers like me can write software for the iPhone and it won't vanish after an update.

      Releasing an SDK means you have to support it. Putting together an SDK you can support, and that is easy for developers to use, takes time. It's not just documentation, which in of itself is a large task if you want it done right--it's API design, build toolchain design, getting the supporting websites together and ready, training your developer support people in the new stuff, etc. It's huge! But Apple is doing it.

      For now, third-party software developed through unsupported means is just that: unsupported. In the near future, according to Apple, we'll have a supported means of developing software for the iPhone. And it'll be better software, because we'll have the documentation we need.

      There's no "walled garden", just a device whose SDK is in beta somewhere inside Cupertino walls.

      --
      Mikey-San
      Karma: +Eleventy billion (mostly affected by watching Celebrity Jeopardy)
    4. Re:Walled Garden by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      All I ever wanted was to be able to build applications myself, it's not at all useless nor will be the applications that come from this.
      And all you had to do was pay 500 bucks for a locked-down phone and then wait a year and a half for an approved SDK (still vapor at this point) and 5 years for a choice of provider. P.T. Barnum had a name for people that do that.

      By the way, how many phones do you know of that last 5 years? What are the odds that the "early adopters" who bought iPhones on 0-day will still want to use those same phones 4.5 years from now?
      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    5. Re:Walled Garden by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 2, Informative

      I have an iPhone, jailbroken twice but currently locked down. I have seen about a dozen iPhones through my random holiday travels in airports and on planes where I could see the home screen. Nine of the 12 had third party apps installed.

      Given the demographic, I was amazed by that-- well over half the people with an iPhone love it, but identify the fact that there is something fundamental missing to the point tha they are willing to void the warrantee to fix it.

      The key is that people's needs are different, and there needs to be a fair way to address them. The walled garden won't sell 10m phones in 2008.

    6. Re:Walled Garden by Smorkin'+Labbit · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Of course they have some kind of SDK internally, but it is a much different thing supporting something internally compared to letting other people use it: You have to start thinking about backwards compatibility much more, documentation must be better (you can get away with lousy/no documentation internally since you can always ask the ones writing the software how things work), etc.

        I used to be the main developer at a big software company, where we had a supported SDK for customization, and it was hell; even if you document how the SDK is supposed to be used, everyone immediately starts making assumptions based on how the current implementation works (such as relying on un-documented order of events). Ideally you could tell those users that its their fault when things break down with an upgrade, but customers don't really care about this: They upgraded a product they pay money for, and their stuff break. Ergo, the software company is at fault. Example: The SDK clearly specified that spaces was considered optional in all string messages. But when we removed those with an upgrade, my guess is that 90% of the customers had broken installations since their code assumed "a = b" was how things looked, when parsing the string. And customers paying a couple of hundred thousand dollars / year for a software do not appreciate that, no matter what you say.

      Furthermore, *any* feature you add in an official SDK will be there forever, even if you later on realize it was a bad idea or design, since someone, somewhere, is using that feature. Look at Windows and how long it has taken them to get away from Win32.

    7. Re:Walled Garden by stewbacca · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'm still waiting for Hoover to allow third party vacuum apps, those bastards!

    8. Re:Walled Garden by ThePiMan2003 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The question you should be asking, is how many of those people will have enjoyed using the phone and had no problem using AT&T with them. I understand that you don't want an iPhone with the current restrictions on it. But just because you feel superior for turning your nose up at it; it does not mean that people who have been enjoying one for the last year are fools. Just that they have different requirements for a phone. If you really want to be able to program for your phone, go buy a Windows phone, and a copy of Visual Studio. If you want a tightly integrated phone, with a nice UI, that ties into a complete music delivery system... buy an iPhone.

    9. Re:Walled Garden by mhollis · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I received an iPhone this year as a holiday gift. It's very nice.

      The problem is that it's replacing something and I have expectations regarding the something replaced. I'm trying to replace my Palm TX, my cell phone (which was a really old phone) and my iPod (Photo). The only thing the iPhone completely replaces is my cell phone.

      Palm has a KISS attitude about their devices and every time they have not stuck to that ethos, they have lost user base. But Palm has always had a SDK released that is based on the assumption that the Palm company cannot possibly know all of the ways someone might want to use their device. I think it's particularly arrogant for Apple to assume that only Apple knows all of the uses someone will want to put their iPhone to. They certainly don't display that kind of arrogance with the Macintosh computer. So, duly chastened, Jobs decided to release the SDK for the iPhone. After this Febuary, I'd say the iPhone (and iPod Touch) will begin to actually become useful.

      For those of you who either have Smartphones or Palm devices or Windows Mobile devices, the one thing the iPhone really, really lacks is the ability to cut and paste! I've been using computers since the 1980s and I cannot recall ever not being able to copy material from one place to be used in another place. This ability to write once, use multiple is the hallmark of computing and this is involved in database, word processing, and user interactions both within applications as well as between applications. The iPhone OS must introduce this, and soon.

      Until I can cut and paste, my iPhone will not be able to replace my Palm T|X.

      Until I can buy, download and install third-party utilities, my iPhone will not be able to replace my Palm T|X.

      I don't think my iPhone will fully replace my iPod because my iPhone simply doesn't have enough space on it for my entire music library. But the iPhone is more like an iPod Nano in the sense that one loads a subset of one's library on the iPhone, not the whole magillah.

      I am hoping that the iPhone does have hidden capabilities to move beyond AT&Ts Edge network to 3G wireless data. Certainly the European units have this capability, else they won't sell well.

      Until then, I shall remain a slightly dissatisfied iPhone user.

      --
      Gods don't kill people, people with gods kill people.
  4. Not remotely GPS-like.. by Junta · · Score: 3, Informative

    It gives a vague couple-mile area that you should be in or around. Google has been working to give this to phones lacking aGPS, but it's not a good excuse for lacking the feature when my zero-charge (one-year contract zero money) phone does have it.

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    1. Re:Not remotely GPS-like.. by Nyeerrmm · · Score: 4, Informative

      It changes depending on your location. Down around my house, in a suburban area, the circle is about half a mile, but it tends to be accurate within a quarter mile. However, when I was downtown a few nights ago, I noticed that the circle was within about .2 miles i think, and the location within .1 mile.

      I'd imagine towers are denser in most dense walking areas, allowing more accurate positions (with more intersecting hyperbolae), and that's where I see the feature being most useful. T

      That is, the feature isn't a replacement for something like a Garmin or TomTom, but I can see it being very useful for when you're lost in a pedestrian area and have time to look at a street sign and get your precise position once it gets you very close.

    2. Re:Not remotely GPS-like.. by Dr.+Hellno · · Score: 4, Funny
      In defense of this clearly defective feature:

      This way big brother might know I'm in the red light district, but at least he won't know whether I'm in Marv's Muff Emporium or Kinky Kurt's Krotch Kingdom

    3. Re:Not remotely GPS-like.. by p0tat03 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Depends on where you are. In downtown Toronto the whole cell-tower triangulation can pin me down to a radius of roughly 10 feet, that's pretty frickin' good if you ask me, especially since it's designed so that you can search in your vicinity (restaurants, stores, etc) - anything that gets you within a block would do.

  5. 3rd party by larry+bagina · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The iPhone SDK will probably be released at Macworld (January 14-18).

    --
    Do you even lift?

    These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    1. Re:3rd party by LeafOnTheWind · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This isn't offtopic - if there's an Apple SDK, apps won't need to be installed by hack. They'll be Apple supported. Basically, wait and see and don't let Gizmodo jump the gun ;)

    2. Re:3rd party by nine-times · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And has anyone considered that maybe Apple has been rewriting portions of the iPhone's software in conjunction with developing the SDK, and that might be part of the reason why Apple's updates break 3rd party apps?

      Not to be too defensive of Apple or anything, but many have guessed that part of Apple's aversion to 3rd party application up to this point has been because the OS is still in flux, and software developed for 1.1.2 won't work with 1.1.3. Each of the iPhone updates have forced the 3rd party developers to rewrite their apps, lending some credence to this idea.

      I think we should just wait until the SDK is out and see what the situation is. If the SDK is terrible, then by all means complain.

  6. Tis the Season by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Apple giveth, and Apple taketh away. Why they keep fighting their users makes no real sense. How long before, no matter how neat the gadget, the masses decide that Apple simply isn't worth the trouble?

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
    1. Re:Tis the Season by Bryan+Ischo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      To answer your question: a long time, since the vast majority of users, vocal Slashdot geeks aside, don't give a rats ass about hacking any piece of consumer electronics they own. Most people buy products based on the features that the product claim to have, not on features that they *want* the product to have and believe that they can get by hacking the device.

      A correlary of this statement is that Apple really isn't fighting its users, as a group. It's just fighting a small minority of users who hack their iPhones, so your statement about Apply "fighting their users makes no real sense", itself makes no real sense.

      Disclaimer: I don't own an iPhone, but I might if I was richer.

    2. Re:Tis the Season by Doomstalk · · Score: 3, Informative

      By "small minority" you mean almost 18% of all iPhone owners.

    3. Re:Tis the Season by noidentity · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Apple really isn't fighting its users, as a group. It's just fighting security holes that could allow malware, found by a small minority of users who hack their iPhones and who unfortunately rely on these holes to run their home-made software [...]

      Corrected that for you.

    4. Re:Tis the Season by bushelpeck · · Score: 3, Informative

      Apple's not fighting their users, they're protecting them, from their perspective.

      The jailbreaks are dependent on vulnerabilities which really can't be allowed to remain, for the security of the entire userbase. When the SDK is released all the developers who've already made apps will have a big head start and the good ones will even have an opportunity to get paid for their hard work if they choose.

      Should be unnecessary to point this out on /. but a hack is, well, a hack. Isn't that the fun of it?

  7. The cryPhone by Z80xxc! · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why is apple trying so darn hard to stifle every attempt to develop for their product? I can sort-of understand the other carriers thing, as they and AT&T want their money, but the 3rd part apps blocking is just ridiculous. 3rd party apps are part of what made me initially interested in them; today I'm glad iDidn't get one. Even microsoft understands the importance of Developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers...

    P.S: article tagged cryphone.

    1. Re:The cryPhone by supersat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Would you rather them leave the vulnerabilities unpatched so that any web site could 0wn your iPhone if it wanted to? Granted, there should be a way to load third-party apps without resorting to these kinds of hacks, but we'll see what Apple does when they release the SDK.

    2. Re:The cryPhone by oman_ · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Apple wants to SELL the applications. If any coder can spend a weekend working up a decent solitaire game then that means they won't be able to charge $5 (or whatever) for their solitaire game on iTunes. The cell phone market has ALWAYS been about nickel and diming the customer to death. Charging for text messages?

      The movement to provide on-demand services is NOT about improving life for the customer. It has ALWAYS been about improving revenue. Getting more for less.

      and anyway...

      I own a hacked iPhone with the 1.1.2 firmware with about 15 third-party applications on it. This thing is by far the most useful consumer electronics device I've ever owned (besides my pc of course). I don't have to upgrade to 1.1.3 and it is still useful to me. When it's cracked I'll upgrade.... but either way it's still a win/win for me.

      --
      Rats would be more funny if they could fart.
    3. Re:The cryPhone by Osty · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Have they developed some mind control chip

      Not quite a chip, but yes.

    4. Re:The cryPhone by onefriedrice · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What surprises me even more is why the hell people and developers bother with Apple products? Seriously, I just don't understand how you can piss everybody off *and* have a large loyal fanbase.
      I'm not sure who the loyal fans are that are supposed to be so pissed. As a developer, I develop apps for the iPhone/iPod touch because it's a fun platform. I expect Apple to patch their security issues, so that doesn't make me pissed when they do. We'll just have to find a new one until Apple releases their official SDK. No biggie. Honestly, I'd be much more pissed if they _didn't_ patch their own security holes.

      As a user, it doesn't make me upset either since I know exactly what I bought. I didn't expect it to do more than advertised, so why would I be upset when I can do even more by way of jailbreak for a while until Apple patches their software? Plus, if there are 3rd-party apps I've come to rely on, there certainly is nobody forcing me to upgrade to Apple's new patch. I'll do it when I'm good and ready. Should I be mad that Apple patches their software? No, that's irrational.

      You could try to argue the point that Apple should just patch the bugs and leave the apps, but you would be ignoring the fact that the apps are still unauthorized and (for all they know) malware. Under the current model, it would be a security problem for Apple to leave unknown apps on peoples' iPhones and iPod touches until they have established the "right way" via an SDK and probably some sort of authorization system.

      So no, as a developer and owner of an iPod touch, this does not make me angry. Who knows when the official SDK will be ready, but until that time it will be fun trying to jailbreak Mobile Mac OS X again.
      --
      This author takes full ownership and responsibility for the unpopular opinions outlined above.
  8. Mouse.... by ff1324 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Mousetrap...Mouse...Mousetrap...

    I'm going to go out on a limb and say we'll see a fix for the fix by the end of January. So all the iPhone users can get their fix fix fix.

  9. How dare they! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    How dare Apple fix security bugs that can lead to arbitrary code execution!

    They're violating hackers' right to run their code on whoever's hardware they like!

    1. Re:How dare they! by sincewhen · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well then, simply don't apply the update!
      It's not like Apple employ a SWAT team to force their way into your home and hold you at gunpoint until you upgrade.
      And neither do they have the phone surreptitiously phone Cupertino and upgrade itself without your knowledge.
      It's still your hardware! Just don't expect support and compatibility with future software releases if you hack it.

      --
      -- Braden's law of data: All data spends some of its lifetime in an excel spreadsheet.
  10. Valid Security Concerns by bug_hunter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Okay, I hate the fact that the iPhone didn't come out with an SDK at launch, and the fact that there's an existing playform for building phone apps (Java ME) that they completely ignored, and Apple's "Buy a new one if you brick it" policy (Could they at least take your bricked iPhone for $100 or something so the hardware doesn't go to waste?)
    BUT
    most of the security circumnavigation is a result of buffer overflows and other stuff that could be used in theory by attackers as well so they are right to patch it.

    Personally I'm going to wait until after the SDK is released until I think about buying one, and anybody else who is currently trying to hack the iphone should do the same (even just to save their wallets from more brick costs).

    --
    It's turtles all the way down.
  11. Bah by MistaE · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Why does every one insist on giving the same old tired arguments every time an update comes out? Doesn't anyone remember that an SDK is coming out in a month (or less?) Everyone will be able to get their crappy Notepad++++ programs that way as well, and with Apple's approval no less.

    The issue with the unlocking is a different however. But, until the US people stand up and actually say that they want universal unlocking for all phones e.t.c. exclusive deals like the iPhone will continue. (Speaking of which, there have been exclusive phones in the past, and there will be more in the future, why is the iPhone always singled out for this?

    1. Re:Bah by ScrewMaster · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Speaking of which, there have been exclusive phones in the past, and there will be more in the future, why is the iPhone always singled out for this?

      Because Apple has worked extremely hard to put themselves in the limelight, to maintain as high a profile as possible ... the price you pay for that is that any perceived foibles are yours and yours alone.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  12. The whyPhone by SuperKendall · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Why is apple trying so darn hard to stifle every attempt to develop for their product?

    Why is Apple fixing known and demonstrated security flaws in products? I can't imagine why!

    I would think the fact that they are soon releasing an API for the phone would be seen as an indication they in fact supporting development as best they can. But you simply cannot have Apple leave gaping security holes in a product open or someone WILL exploit them eventually. Would you rather Apple left open the hole that let anyone execute code on your phone with the right TIFF file?

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  13. Re:Wake up Apple! by Osty · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Dear Steve Jobs, I will *never* buy a iphone if you keep pulling this BS. (along with the fact that you are tied into AT&T) Stop behaving like MS, or I'll just build another PC next year vs purchasing a iMac.. and of course, install linux on the PC.

    Funny. Microsoft allows complete and open access to their Windows Mobile OS (whether or not you can load your apps onto the phone is left to the decision of the carriers). In fact they even opened the source for the OS (okay, it's a Shared Source license, and it requires having an officially licensed version of Windows Embedded CE 6.0, but the source code is all there if you want to modify it while building a new device of your own). I think this is a case where you want Apple to act more like Microsoft rather than less.

    On the other hand, I'm an iPhone user. I spent a fair amount of time playing with Windows CE in the past, and while I like the system I was not a fan of any of the current phones using it today. So I bought an iPhone, and I like it. The current lack of an SDK isn't slowing me down, since I probably wouldn't write any iPhone apps anyway (as much as I'd like to think I would, I know that I'd just dabble a bit and never actually finish anything). Sure, there are some things that are missing (GPS, full Exchange connectivity, an IM app), but I can live without those at least for now.

  14. Why no J2ME by SuperKendall · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Okay, I hate the fact that the iPhone didn't come out with an SDK at launch, and the fact that there's an existing playform for building phone apps (Java ME) that they completely ignored,

    I have been doing Java stuff for a long time. And I've even done a few small things in J2ME in the past.

    But if you think about it, there's a good reason the iPhone doesn't have J2ME - it's not M. That is, nothing about the iPhone is anything like the reference J2ME platform, and it's really not a "Micro" kind of platform in the traditional sense of the word. But there's also no good Java GUI API to an all touch input device either, so you combine that with Java processor and memory requirements and it's really not a good fit for the iPhone, at least right now.

    Now that XCode/ObjC has garbage collection, there's really no good reason a Java developer couldn't move over to Objective C if they really want to develop something for the platform.

    When the API is finally released, we probably will see someone release a J2ME emulator for the iPhone which would be kind of interesting. But I think it would be some work to put that together.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  15. Unlocking is not the same as running applications by SuperKendall · · Score: 3, Informative

    The original poster was talking about users running applications. Apple is also taking away region unlocks, but that's a different matter and a very different issue and there are arguments that make sense for both sides of that conflict.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  16. But does it BRICK hacked phones? by RobK · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Are we safe in assuming that this patch does not render iphones unusable? Simply disabling third party apps and patching holes, NOT locking it up so that you have to go to apple and pray for forgiveness?

  17. Jesus Christ, iPhone is not life or death by jhylkema · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If you're determined to pay too much for a calling plan and an overpriced phone, this is what's going to happen. Sure, it looks cool, but it's locked down enough to make Microsoft blush. I mean, come on.

    Mod me to hell, I don't care, I have karma to burn.

    1. Re:Jesus Christ, iPhone is not life or death by reidconti · · Score: 4, Informative

      If you're determined to pay too much for a calling plan and an overpriced phone, this is what's going to happen. Sure, it looks cool, but it's locked down enough to make Microsoft blush. I mean, come on. Verizon 900 minutes + unlimited data = $105ish after taxes. I know, I had a Moto Q just before the iPhone price drop, when I bought mine.
      AT&T iPhone 900 minutes + unlimited data + rollover minutes = $85ish after taxes.

      As for the 3rd party apps, I'll reserve judgment until after the SDK comes out. Like any half intelligent consumer, I bought the iPhone because I was happy with what it did, out of the box, at the price they charged. I did install the jailbreak + some third party apps on the original OS, but none of them were that useful. When the software update came out I knew it would trash my 3rd party apps but didn't care, so I installed it.

      To be honest, I didn't need any of the apps and am not really missing any functionality. I didn't even know there were ways to install 3rd party apps on the newer firmwares, that's how little I care.

      Once the SDK comes out and apps are "officially" available I'll take another look and see if there's anything I can't live without.
  18. why Android will push out the iPhone by peas_n_carrots · · Score: 3, Funny

    The iPhone is a slick product. Kudos to apple for pushing the edge of UI design. But, once again apple's closed-system philosophy is their undoing. Yes they're releasing an SDK as a business response to Android. They're *responding* in this department, not innovating. That's why Google's Android will overrun the market and apple will be stuck with their ~3% market share just like the Mac.
    Predictions are difficult, and I'm no seer. This one looks obvious to me though.

  19. Re:Why do people like the iphone? by Jackie_Chan_Fan · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Its a good honest question.

    I just bought an iPhone. 2 days ago. I am both pleased and underwhelmed. I find that it doesn't do as much as i would have hoped. It does a lot well, and the browsing is nice, i wish it were faster. Even in wifi mode, it isnt as fast as browsing on a laptop over wifi.

    Its a great start. It really is a nice way to use a phone but i do think that it will be a challenge for apple or any developer when they open their sdk, to add more complex functions to the ui workflow.

    Currently there is no copy and paste for example. How do you do it with just a touch screen ui? You only have so much screen space, plus you run the risk of touching other things on screen and activating their functions.

    Its a great start, and the os will get more and more apps from apple over time, atleast i hope thats their plan. I hope they upgrade it with functionality and apps, even as new hardware versions come out, i hope the os and apps continue to be available on all of the versions over the years.

    Itunes for windows absolutely sucks. My pc can run crysis at 1920x1080 with evertyhing set to very high except the shaders which is set to high.... but it can barely run itunes.

    Itunes is a programming peice of shit. Apple really hates PC users. It shows. It is fucking obvious, and i feel ripped off in that regard. Apple NEVER supports their hardware on the PC, with quality software. It has been that way for a while now. Apple purposely neglects the iTunes software on windows and it is a fucking rip off scam. Its a bait and switch. Buy the hardware, but its a nightmare to use on windows. Just the way Apple wants. It does not at all inspire me to even consider buying a MAC. Its Apple's way of saying "See we told you PCs are slow and bad..." when in reality its Apple playing bullshit. They should be investigated by the feds for it and i'm dead fucking serious.

    Youtube and Google maps is incredible on the iphone.

    Email needs some more functionality.

    The iPhone needs Instant messeging through a native app running in the os (AIM, YAHOO, MSN, etc). Currently you can do it through webpages like meebo.com

    I cant open a link in a new window in the browser. You can with a bookmarklet but, not natively in safari. This makes it a pain when browsing because it doesnt cache the pervious page, it seems quite slow when going "back".

    There are problems, but overall, if the os is robust enough and there is enough ram and processing power, all it takes is some smart thinking in the ui department to continuously add features and improvements.

    Like i said, its a great start. Apple needs to follow through and improve the software both on the iphone, and on windows!!!!!!!!!

    Sorry wrote this while on a phone call so i appologize for the jumbled thoughts. :)

  20. Apple has? by SuperKendall · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Because Apple has worked extremely hard to put themselves in the limelight,

    Because Apple has? Or the media has? Because every single phone since the dawn of time has "worked extremely hard to put themselves in the limelight". Apple just managed to actually succeed - and is being punished for that. Success is why Apple is being singled out, not because they tried any harder or any differently than other phones which get ignored.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Apple has? by AlXtreme · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Apple just managed to actually succeed - and is being punished for that. Success is why Apple is being singled out...

      Seriously, what success? Apple's Jesus-phone was probably the most hyped product of 2007. Months in advance you couldn't get around all the articles promising a revolution in mobile phones.

      The reality is that I've yet to see one on this side of the pond, while I have a lot of Apple-fans in my network. They couldn't care less about some overpriced locked-down gimmick. Apple has been pushing out press-release after press-release and their marketing went into overdrive before launch here; reality is that the iPhone simply isn't that great.

      --
      This sig is intentionally left blank
  21. iPhone SDk announced before Android- Occam applies by SuperKendall · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Yes they're releasing an SDK as a business response to Android.

    The iPhone SDK was announced before android.

    But even if it was not, apply Occam's Razor - what is the simplest explanation for the iPhone SDK? Simply put it's the entire internet whining to no end ever since the iPhone launch that they want an SDK for the iPhone - more importantly, among them many registered Apple developers. It could be that Apple actually listens to customers and developers, a plan so crazy it just might work!

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  22. Re:Why do people like the iphone? by netik · · Score: 2, Informative


    For what it's worth, I was at apple when iTunes for windows came out. Apple didn't write iTunes for windows, it was outsourced to a bangalore programming team. This might be one of the reasons it sucks so badly.

  23. Re:Why do people like the iphone? by Travoltus · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'd put my Palm Treo 700p up against this over hyped thing any day. I get more apps than the iPhone, I get to put any kind of music I want on my phone, and I have FREEDOM. Plus the 700p does such a huge shiteload of things that the iPhone's "advantage" is a joke.

    Oh and I've used the iPhone for a week straight.

    --
    --- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
  24. Just a thought... by defi · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I personally love my iPhone. It does everything I need and then some. For instance I NEVER used youtube, but now I find myself using it in the oddest situations (like when an guy at work was talking about conway twitty I searched and found some concert clips and showed him). I also dont mind the wait for third party apps, I would rather have a well thought out SDK than something hacked together. Heres something I dont understand regarding third party apps; why does everyone feel that Apple has to support them and be careful when updating. I find this analogous to a contractor building a house and having to redesign it every morning when someone cuts holes for windows or runs wires where they want to. If the "hacker" community involved wants to create a cell phone then do it. Don't complain that someone spent a long time to refine the hardware and software for a device and then claims ownership and is protective of it. If their so happy with their unlocked phones then don't update, if its so perfect leave it alone. Better yet why not treat it in the true spirit of open source and give Apple the respect for what they did and fork it. Make your own project, create the firmware, make a loader, refine its synching abilities, and so forth. I love the open source community and use a lot of their software daily, linux especially is a one of the best things ever to happen to computing. What I don't like is the direction its moving, and the attitude towards the iPhone makes this apparent. I attribute this to the RMS opensourcers' and their socialist, anti-capitalists ideologies (Honestly what is wrong with making a profit off of your creation, this isn't the 70's and these are not command line e-mail apps were talking about).

    I dont mind the way Apple does buisness and believe they listen to their consumers. I cant tell you how many posts I read complaining of a lack of gapless playback on the iPod, only to find out that these posts were dated and that the feature had been included. The thing with Apple is that they don't just "do" things to shut people up. I admire that. They have a direction their moving in and they keep the course. I cant stand these companys that try to make a swiss army knife style device that is just crap. Have some focus and get the core features working. I had a gps-enabled blackberry on nextel and I dont think I ever got it to find my location. Thats crap, if a feature is there it should work, with the least amount of flaws. My iPhone always works and the only two apps I ever have problems with (Mail when I check my IMAP account from to many locations simoultaneously i.e. on my laptop while connected on my phone, and safari has the occasional page crash) are corrected very quickly. If an app hangs hold the home button down and it will restart. I never have to reboot my iPhone and can honestly say that its been on for about 4-5 months straight. Thats stability.

    In time I agree that most of these arguments will be mute and have been a waste of time. The SDK will come, it probobly will be limited in the beginning but will eventually be full featured. It will become unlocked, I mean, Isn't it illegal to keep a phone locked after the contract is up anyway. If this isn't allowed then someone will take them to court and force them to obey the laws.

    Now for a request. Could everyone stop complaining and get innovating. Take all this negativity and focus it into the iPhone killer. I would love this and probably be one of the first buyers . Ohh yeah I own Apple stock (sort of a disclamer), but I would ditch it and my iPhone in a second if there was truly a better product. I'm only loyal to my family, my money goes to the winner.

  25. Re:Unlocking is not the same as running applicatio by moro_666 · · Score: 2, Interesting


    Wake Up! Apple doesn't count these 18% as users. They count it as consumers but not as users, not as the market place they want to have.

    It's too damn simple, can't you fools understand ?

      1. Apple sells you a phone, they say it's locked, they say it's fixed networked.
      2. Every legal paper along the way tells you it's supposed to be locked down.
      3. Now some idiots come along and protest that they can't keep it broken.
      4. Profit ? Yes and no.

      Apple enjoys the buzz around "locked or unlocked, how exciting", it's probably a minor part of their strategy. They just want to sell you the phones, they don't want you (hackers, crackers or dummy followers) as their main client base.

      Bmw counts medium rich people as their "users", not the dumb wit 18 y/o death racers. But they still sell to them.
      Microsoft counts companies and honest home users as their clients, not the illegal-copy-using people.
      Pharmacies count ill people as their clients, not drug dealers that synthesize addictive drugs out from legal ones.

      Why Should Apple Differ or Care ? --> Simple, they don't.

      As far as apple cares: you bought a car and you complain that the f*cker can't fly, oh my !

      End of story, stop dreaming. This is life, if it's too much for you too take, go play WoW or something.

    --

    I'd tell you the chances of this story being a dupe, but you wouldn't like it.
  26. Steve says: Pwn Different by Zhe+Mappel · · Score: 2, Funny

    What, you didn't think your iPhone was yours, did you?

  27. Compare to Symbian Signed by tepples · · Score: 2, Interesting

    But not useless for creating applications which is all most people really want. It will probably need each app to be signed by the holder of a code signing certificate. Based on what I've seen on other similar platforms (such as Symbian Signed), the terms of service attached to code signing will likely have a technicality, such as no charging for copies of signed binaries, that makes it incompatible with the requirements of the GNU GPL, such as granting permission to distribute source and binaries for a fee and disclosing Installation Information.
    1. Re:Compare to Symbian Signed by Admiral+Ag · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I love speculating as much as the next person, but let's just wait and see what the SDK is like. Remember that the SDK is for both the iPhone (which I don't own) and the iPod Touch (which I own). I'm waiting to see what happens at Macworld in a couple of weeks before I jailbreak my Touch, but I've played around with a couple of jailbroken units and they are incredible. If you've seen one, you'll know what I mean: the iPod Touch isn't really an iPod in the traditional sense, but the next great ultra portable computer and probably gaming device (there's a roll ball game available that demonstrates the potential of the platform). My experiences with jailbroken iPods have convinced me that Apple is sitting on a goldmine. So are developers if Apple does the right thing.

      But as someone else said, Apple will need to protect the non techie users who will go mental if a software upgrade breaks their unit. Moreover, if apps on these things are to become popular with the masses, then there will have to be integration with iTunes, since that is what most people use to manage their iPods. That means that iPod software installation will have to work like podcasts do: you can get them through iTunes with no hassle, and they won't harm your iPod or break with updates. There is really no alternative if it is to become mainstream. If it does, everyone is in for a treat. I'm hoping that excellent Mac shareware companies like Panic will write software for it (if you don't know who Panic are, then shame on you!).

      There's no reason why Apple couldn't make the iPod Touch into the new Newton. I'm hoping they will, and the massive black space on the iPod's home screen makes me confident that they will. It already does almost everything you'd want a digital media player to do, so the space can only be taken up with radically extending the use of the device. It's crying out to become a PDA for regular people.

      --
      "by that I mean people who don't sit on slashdot all day wondering why everyone else isn't building robots" DECS
  28. Multiple levels of ADC membership by tepples · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Apple already has a developer program. The entry level is free. You can get details at http://developer.apple.com/products/. Then let me rephrase my question: Can you cite a source stating that the iPhone SDK will be included in the "ADC Online Membership" (free) level of this developer program, or will it require an "ADC Select Membership" or higher?
  29. Real GPS feature coming to the iPhone by Lord+Satri · · Score: 2, Informative

    I would consider doing so for the GPS triangulation. The Google 'My Location' feature will now work with the iPhone. Additionally, here's a new GPS add-on, shipping in February for 89$, for the iPhone and iPod Touch. There's also TomTom who is rumored to develop a GPS add-on for the iPhone. See my journal for the rejected story last Friday on this subject.

    (I don't have an iPhone and don't want one, aside from the fact that they're not available in Canada anyway ;-) (and oh, I think we're kind of losers of focusing on the bad sides of the new update instead of also discussing the new good features)
    --
    Animoog.org
  30. Re:Unlocking is not the same as running applicatio by rudlavibizon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So many bad analogies in one post. The thing is, people see iPhone for what it really is, a computer, and they know what what a computer can do. In other words they know it can fly. Right now Apple don't give any right to 'hack' it but that it is only because they want to sell you a new one with more 'features' next year. People have come to realize this and Apple is balancing its act in order to satisfy its commercial interest, one of which is keeping their 'good' company hype. They do, however, consider un-lockers as users otherwise they wouldn't announce the release of the SDK.

  31. Re:Nope by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Everything I have read indicates that the UI components use a new UIKit, which is similar to AppKit but not the same. It's a shame, since QuantumStep already implements a full AppKit on a number of mobile devices.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News