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Musicians Have Many Money Options Online, Says Talking Head

Time Slows Down writes "Scottish born musician and former record label owner David Byrne says the future of music as a career is wide open and identifies six different distribution models now available to musicians in an article in this month's Wired magazine. At one end of the scale is the 360, or equity deal, where every aspect of the artist's career is handled by producers, promoters, marketing people, and managers. At the other end of the scale is the self-distribution model, where the music is self-produced, self-written, self-played, and self-marketed."

114 comments

  1. So what he's basically saying is... by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 5, Funny

    It's the same as it ever was.

    1. Re:So what he's basically saying is... by onion_joe · · Score: 1

      word.

      --
      sig sig sig siggy sig
    2. Re:So what he's basically saying is... by hxnwix · · Score: 1

      It's the same as it ever was. Yes, it's kind of like how it was when the lucky users had 2400 baud modems and gopher was hot shit in that .... ??
    3. Re:So what he's basically saying is... by Sfing_ter · · Score: 1

      No, he's saying...

      This ain't no party, this ain't no disco this ain't no fooling around.
      I got some groceries, some peanut butter
      to last a couple of days
      But I ain't got no speakers
      ain't got no headphones
      ain't got no records to play

      --
      A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
    4. Re:So what he's basically saying is... by edwardpickman · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Not exactly it's easier than it ever was which is a double edged sword. Now almost anyone can release an album. That severely dilutes the market. I saw this happen in independent film. Low budget horror films virtually turned into a non profit industry because everyone with a video camera started making them and Blockbuster and other vendors starting accepting crappy ones because they could pick them up cheap. I used to be a fan of the genre but I don't even bother to rent them anymore because they're all bad. It used to be that if you were going to shoot a film you needed half a mill to a mill so you had to maintain a certain quality or no one would touch it. Now large numbers are made for 10K to 50K and a 100K to 500K are considered real budgets. It's going to get harder and harder to get recognized as the market floods. Lets says there are 10X as many bands that now can get their music out there. In five years it'll be 100X and in ten years it'll be a 1000X. There are tens of thousands, probably hundreds of thousands, of garage bands in this country alone. How many hours a day do you have to listen to music? Yes some of the good ones will shine through but the irony is it probably just got radically harder to succeed. People may find it easier to hear your music but it's going to get harder to make a living at it and instruments and recording equipment cost money.

    5. Re:So what he's basically saying is... by bennomatic · · Score: 1
      "This is not my beautiful song!"

      --
      The CB App. What's your 20?
    6. Re:So what he's basically saying is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Steve Albini pointed out the major labels' games very, very well in an article from 1993. While the scene has changed significantly in nigh 15 years in terms of both production and distribution, his advice still stands and in a much more pertinent fashion, to both musician and listener, than David Byrne's almost "feel good" piece. So yes, it is the same as it ever was.

    7. Re:So what he's basically saying is... by bennomatic · · Score: 2, Informative

      You do realize that the GP was a Talking Heads/David Byrn song reference, don't you?

      --
      The CB App. What's your 20?
    8. Re:So what he's basically saying is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People may find it easier to hear your music but it's going to get harder to make a living at it

      Boo-fucking-hoo.

    9. Re:So what he's basically saying is... by ghyd · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Now almost anyone can release an album. That severely dilutes the market.
      So far so good then?

      I saw this happen in independent film. Low budget horror films virtually turned into a non profit industry because everyone with a video camera started making them and Blockbuster and other vendors starting accepting crappy ones because they could pick them up cheap.
      Could it be: I saw this happen in film. Low budget films virtually turned into a non profit industry because everyone with a video camera started making them and Blockbuster and other vendors starting accepting crappy ones because they could pick them up cheap.
      Or just that cheap horror films are made so because people don't really want to see them anyway. Cheap horror movies seem more like a cinematographic "meme" than a side effect of technology.

      I used to be a fan of the genre but I don't even bother to rent them anymore because they're all bad.
      Or that the greatest part of creativity period of the genre has passed. Like Peplums, Westerns, Buster Keaton and alt genre movies, etc. No music, movie, painting genres are forever, none of them. Cheap horror movies could rather be the tail of the genre than any cause in itself to its demise. And frankly, wasn't the great era of horror movies made from "Evil dead" and "Bad taste" ? or "The Exorcist" and "The Sixth sense". I don't sense here the kind of pattern that you are invoking.

      It used to be that if you were going to shoot a film you needed half a mill to a mill so you had to maintain a certain quality or no one would touch it.
      Most movies in this list haven't been made with nearly that much money: http://www.amazon.com/Best-of-Low-Budget-Cinema/lm/17HEU9NSRSU95

      Now large numbers are made for 10K to 50K and a 100K to 500K are considered real budgets.
      Like the bugdet of Monty Python's movies you mean, surely. Those movie sucks because they are so cheap. I'm exactly following you there.

      It's going to get harder and harder to get recognized as the market floods. As a part time bedroom composer, I've had my first disinterested listeners thanks a recent Digg-like music site. As a musician, I therefore highly disagree with you, as people have used their social site points to bump my music which is the best thing to happen to my music since my last track and until the next :p

      Lets says there are 10X as many bands that now can get their music out there. In five years it'll be 100X and in ten years it'll be a 1000X. There are tens of thousands, probably hundreds of thousands, of garage bands in this country alone. How many hours a day do you have to listen to music? Lets says there are 10X as many online shops that now can get their stuff out there. In five years it'll be 100X and in ten years it'll be a 1000X. There are tens of thousands, probably hundreds of thousands, of artisan's sites in this country alone. How many hours a day do you have to search for stuff?
      See what I did ^^ ? frankly, that's the point of Internet, to organize a whole lot of stuff. No need to spend more time that you want, you'll find something for you quick enough (a proverb by here: "the perfect is the enemy of the good", read: you're not supposed to find the BEST stuff everytime, and because you do will not make or break the day of the person on the other side).

      Yes some of the good ones will shine through but the irony is it probably just got radically harder to succeed. People may find it easier to hear your music but it's going to get harder to make a living at it and instruments and recording equipment cost money. I have lots of relatives or friends (including a band of about 15 persons) that have very good recording equipment (much better than anything that helped to produced great music 30 years ago) AND a dayjob. Go figure.
    10. Re:So what he's basically saying is... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1, Insightful

      That severely dilutes the market.
      No, it only "severely dilutes" the market for the very lucky few who made it to the top, like Mr. Byrne.

      Yes some of the good ones will shine through but the irony is it probably just got radically harder to succeed. People may find it easier to hear your music but it's going to get harder to make a living at it and instruments and recording equipment cost money.
      That is just so much bullshit. It's no harder than it ever was for your rank and file musicians to make a living. It's just going to be harder for musicians to become multi-millionaires because of one hit record.

      In fact, I would say that making a living as a recording musician has become more accessible to more people than ever. There are many more ways to sell your music, and many more customers. For those of you who believe in economics, there is more demand for music than ever before.

      Elitists like David Byrne are just pissed because making a living as a musician no longer means you get crowned like royalty by a recording industry that doesn't know the first fucking thing about music. That, and he's a little put off that nobody's paying attention to him any more. You'll notice that the Wired magazine article didn't mention any recent hit records. In fact, it had to bring in Thom Yorke to sit next to him so the Young Ones would pay any attention to the puffy Mr. Byrne's complaints.

      Here's an excerpt from the article -
      ----------
      David Byrne:"In my day, we could get to be rock stars with bad voice and lousy guitar playing. All it took was being lucky enough to live in Manhattan and be friends with the guy who books CBGB, and sucking up to the elite rock "media" who were all in New York anyway, sitting in the front row at CBGB. Hell it was easy. Now, any fruit in a basement can make good records, but he's actually got to work hard to get someone's attention."

      Thom Yorke: "Uh, David, but now they've got the Internet to get people's attention. They don't have to be well-off art students who's parents pay for them to live in Manhattan and hang out in clubs."

      David Byrne: "Oh, right."
      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    11. Re:So what he's basically saying is... by rbanffy · · Score: 1

      This is business as usual.

      Industries rise and fall to the winds of technological advances. Textiles, horse-pulled carriages, ice for refrigeration. All intangibles, like software, books, music and movies are next. No surprise at all.

    12. Re:So what he's basically saying is... by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      Reminds me (a real graphic designer) of when html crashed our design party in the mid 90s. Suddenly anyone with an Internet connection was a "graphic designer". And we all know about the quality of Joe Random on the Internet.

    13. Re:So what he's basically saying is... by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      you'll notice that the Wired magazine article didn't mention any recent hit records
      I missed the memo that requires an artists has to have continued commercial success to be considered relevant. Uh, when was the last successful Stones album? How about the Boss (outside of his core, not a mainstream success since 1984)?

      So I should be listening to what Britney Spears has to say about the industry instead?

    14. Re:So what he's basically saying is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I have lots of relatives or friends (including a band of about 15 persons) that have very good recording equipment (much better than anything that helped to produced great music 30 years ago) AND a dayjob. Go figure."

      But does the stuff they record sound any good?

      Do they have a great sounding live room with facilities to record multiple musicians+headphone mixes, a flat control room, superb mics and mixing desk and the ability to record many musicians at once?

      Or do they have a bedroom with a billion tracks of hard disk recording?

      Recording equipment includes the building and other hardware. The typical digital one room home studio is incredibly limited compared to a decent studio of the 50s. You don't really realize this till you start wondering why most of the home produced stuff sounds like ass compared to records made over 50 years ago.

    15. Re:So what he's basically saying is... by moosesocks · · Score: 1

      Thom Yorke: "Uh, David, but now they've got the Internet to get people's attention. They don't have to be well-off art students who's parents pay for them to live in Manhattan and hang out in clubs."


      Although I agree with Thom Yorke's sentiment here, the buzz surrounding "In Rainbows" seriously needs to be kept in check.

      In short, they did it to make money and generate hype.

      Radiohead plateaued in popularity a few years ago, and are perfectly okay with the fact. Their music is appealing to a small subset of the population, and they've developed a large, but devoted fanbase over the past 10 years (largely with the assistance of major record labels).

      Thom and his bandmates have hinted that they don't care for the sort of fame that involves hearing their own music on the radio, and that they'd rather "explore new territory" at the expense of inaccessibility. Whether Thom and co. should be labeled as arrogant or as visionaries for this is up to you. However, it's pretty clear that Radiohead aren't going to get any more popular, and that there are very few services that the labels can provide for them.

      Get famous on a label, ditch that label, make a scene by doing so, and then watch the money roll in.
      --
      -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
    16. Re:So what he's basically saying is... by RobertM1968 · · Score: 1

      The only problem with the premise is that too many decent bands have already sold away their rights to the record companies - for their current albums, as well as upcoming ones. Many artists have quite some time to wait before they can release music on their own due to that fact. Sad but true. Many artists not in that boat, can't afford alternative methods, because even as cheap as they are, the cost is still above what they can afford - and that doesn't even take into account paying for air-play or advertising - which is what makes signing a deal with the devil (I mean a record label) more attractive due to the initial artist payout and the fact that the label will promote the album(s).

      As more people move to the Internet to find their sources of music, and better (non label affiliated) methods of advertising music come into existence, things will change - but the day when every artist can just up and jump ship from the record label conglomerate is not yet today - and still (sadly) a while off.

      Most people, due to want (it is nice having $$$$ in one's pocket at signing before a single CD is sold), due to need (family to feed, rent/mortgage to pay, etc) would (need to) opt for a distribution method that puts money in their pockets immediately so they can survive... the labels know that - and ensure that the contracts grant them (the labels) ownership of the next (and the next, and the next) album produced - thus locking in the poor artist who is just trying to survive.

    17. Re:So what he's basically saying is... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      I would suggest that Thom Yorke's success has little to do with the efforts of his record label, who mostly tried to get him to re-make "Creep" over and over again.

      I'm not a huge Radiohead fan, but I give Yorke due credit for resisting the best efforts of his original label to destroy his music. I would also give Byrne credit in this regard.

      My objection with this Wired article is mostly that David Byrne is whining about the changes in a music industry that has made it harder for major labels to control everything. Just because he got to the top by playing the game, and the game has changed, he has decided that it's now harder for people to succeed. This is a narrow view, imho.

      He gives the game away when he suggests to young artists that they "hang on to their publishing rights, because that's (their) retirement income". This just shows how out of touch Byrne has become. The most successful artists in the future will be the ones who reject the out-dated notion that it's a good plan to have one big hit and then hope to live off that one success for the rest of your life. That's the part that's become harder. What's really happened is that it's harder for lazy artists to make a living these days.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    18. Re:So what he's basically saying is... by Master+of+Transhuman · · Score: 1

      Uhm, as far as I can tell from the article, Byrne is impressed by how things are going that make it easier for emerging artists to have CHOICE in how they make their deals.

      The article wasn't about bitching and moaning that he isn't a "star" any more. It was exactly about what you said: that making a living as a musician is now more accessible.

      --
      Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
    19. Re:So what he's basically saying is... by Master+of+Transhuman · · Score: 1

      "My objection with this Wired article is mostly that David Byrne is whining about the changes in a music industry that has made it harder for major labels to control everything. Just because he got to the top by playing the game, and the game has changed, he has decided that it's now harder for people to succeed."

      I disagree. Byrne did not seem to be whining about anything in the article. And what he means by "harder to succeed" is simply that there is no longer one simple way: sign your life away to a label - which as he says was never a guarantee anyway. Now there is choice, and he is clearly celebrating that choice in business models.

      One that I think he overlooked was direct broadcast over the Net. Rather than just touring about, a band today could have a small studio equipped for video broadcast over the Net. With live or "pre-recorded live" performances sold by subscription, a band wouldn't have to physically tour as much to make the same sort of money and have the same degree of contact with their fans that touring provides. Physically touring on occasion - or just having various live performance venues on occasion - would still be necessary, of course, but the subscription live broadcast model would a very valuable additional income stream that also provides more continuous contact with the fan base. It definitely would work for the bands who are as much "visual" as audio, such as the Corrs.

      --
      Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
    20. Re:So what he's basically saying is... by niktemadur · · Score: 1

      It's the same as it ever was.

      Someone controls electric guitar.

      --
      Lil' Thindime, lilting a lacrimose lament, krashes the kwaint konfines of Kokonino Kounty
    21. Re:So what he's basically saying is... by cthulhu11 · · Score: 1

      This is indeed true. I've heard very few new bands in the last 5-10 years that sounded even vaguely interesting. The dearth of rock radio stations doesn't help either. There's a total of one in Seattle.

    22. Re:So what he's basically saying is... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Rather than just touring about, a band today could have a small studio equipped for video broadcast over the Net. With live or "pre-recorded live" performances sold by subscription, a band wouldn't have to physically tour as much to make the same sort of money and have the same degree of contact with their fans that touring provides.
      This is a terrific idea, Master. I don't know if it's something that you came up with or is already being done, but I can see it adapted in many ways, including live music/video performances online. Sort of more like the old "live television" model, where people sat down at the TV at 7pm on Sunday night to watch Uncle Miltie or Ed Sullivan, except the internet would allow for much more interaction. For example, the music/visual collective that I work with makes use of lots of computing and software and the musical performances themselves are not interesting to watch (mostly several people staring at screens and manipulating objects such as computer or musical keyboards and other control devices -aka instruments). When we've performed live, we have a couple of filmmakers who produce video in advance but then mix it with live feeds from the various computers the musicians are using, and it's all projected onto the stage. Except for a few times I've been caught checking my email or playing WoW while someone is taking a solo, it's usually come out pretty well and people have enjoyed it. We've released some of these performances on DVD, but I'd really like to try a live netcast.

      If this is your idea, Master, do you mind if I adapt it for my own purposes or is it protected? I'm serious btw.
      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    23. Re:So what he's basically saying is... by Master+of+Transhuman · · Score: 1

      Go right ahead. In my view, ideas are open source. It's action that matters.

      I've been touting this concept for at least a year now. It's basically a return to how musicians started - live performing before an audience. Not really a new concept except for the introduction of Net broadcasting.

      Of course, it may be a while before effective, cost efficient Net broadcasting (at least via video) is feasible for everybody. Bandwidth for video costs. Bob Cringely has been talking about it recently.

      For audio, of course, it's already being done. One case that stuck in my mind was a woman in London who broadcasts her performances on the Net from her home. She's had up to 70,000 listeners to some performances. If she could monetize that with subscriptions!

      A band like the Corrs - who are a visual band by virtue of being probably the best looking band out there - would have an edge on Net broadcast, but any band could do it. The key would be to make the video broadcast interesting. But even noodling around or a jam session would be acceptable to the hardcore fans - let them see how an album was progressing, let them hear earlier versions of a song and see the development. Hell, even let them influence the development with their own ideas - open source music!

      --
      Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
    24. Re:So what he's basically saying is... by eikonos · · Score: 1

      Stop making sense!

    25. Re:So what he's basically saying is... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      In my view, ideas are open source.
      Mine too. Thank you.
      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
  2. well, by onion_joe · · Score: 2, Funny
    I guess he's Byrne-ing down the RIAA's house.

    sorry...

    --
    sig sig sig siggy sig
  3. Byrne may actually be saying... by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 1

    No visible means of support and you have not seen nuthin' yet.

  4. Talent is the problem by timmarhy · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Unfortunately you have to have some actual talent to make it on your own, where with labels all you need to do is suck the right cock and you'll get plastered all over the tv and have a song written for you and have your voice digitally smoothed out.

    no wonder peopel still sign with labels, your soul for some easy money.

    --
    If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    1. Re:Talent is the problem by iminplaya · · Score: 1

      ...your soul for some easy money.

      Where do I sign?

      --
      What?
    2. Re:Talent is the problem by locokamil · · Score: 4, Funny

      I was about to say the same thing, but then I remembered that I already sold my soul for Grateful Dead tickets back in 1978,

    3. Re:Talent is the problem by ozmanjusri · · Score: 2, Funny
      Where do I sign?

      Suck cock first, sign later.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    4. Re:Talent is the problem by cromar · · Score: 1

      Ha ha. If only that were true. I would be rich.

    5. Re:Talent is the problem by aussie_a · · Score: 2, Funny

      He said talent, not ego.

    6. Re:Talent is the problem by bennomatic · · Score: 1
      Y'know, there are several ways to read your response. Let's just say that you're potentially saying a mouthful.

      --
      The CB App. What's your 20?
    7. Re:Talent is the problem by cleatsupkeep · · Score: 1

      I sold mine for Beegees tickets, and then again for half a mallomar.

      Simpsons - if anyone was wondering, but it's Slashdot, so, yeah.

    8. Re:Talent is the problem by locokamil · · Score: 1

      I could have sworn that one was a Family Guy quote. Then again, I may just be losing my ability to recall minutiae from sitcoms portraying fat, suburban dads and their dysfunctional families...

    9. Re:Talent is the problem by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      You also have to have "talent" at self-promotion, music-distribution, and at whatever your previous job was, because you'll need a lot of money in order to make a decent career for yourself. You may also need talent at surviving below the poverty line if you happen to fail and lose your investment. Or, I guess, you could have a talent at working two (possibly three) jobs simultaneously.

      Yeah, bunch no-talent hacks can't make money off REAL music. Those damn punks taking the easy road just because it's easier, safer, and more efficient...

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    10. Re:Talent is the problem by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      There are plenty of talented bands who have stuck with the old way of doing things. It's what they now, it makes them tons of money, and it lets them have time to conduct the self-destructive behavior they have all grown to love. You can't assume that GREAT musicians don't use the old model, just because there are new and exciting ways to promote yourself. You also can't assume if an artists "sells-out" that their music will automatically be worse than if the self-manage. It may be the case in 99% of pop-acts, but then again, pop-music isn't really selling musical talent in the first place. Britney is an entertainer, not a singer, for example.

    11. Re:Talent is the problem by clang_jangle · · Score: 1

      no wonder peopel still sign with labels, your soul for some easy money.


      Only a person who's never had to spend a year living in a van with three guys eating fast food, dealing with exploitive and moronic promoters all across the US could all it easy. The reality is, it's anything but. The Britneys and Lindsays are very rare, for everyone else it's a life of work so hard the average US worker could never do it.
      --
      Caveat Utilitor
    12. Re:Talent is the problem by AGMW · · Score: 1
      I'd say Talent is in the eye of the beholder ... er ear of the, er, beerholder?

      Anyway, if you can produce something to a reasonable standard in your bedroom recording studio you may be able to find yourself a market, which may lead to bigger and better things. Look at what Sellaband are up to. Unsigned Artists register and put up three songs and try and attract Believers (don't panic about the religious overtones of the terminology - the company's Dutch!). A Believer can pre-buy your next CD for $10 (USD) and once $50000 (USD) is raised they company put you in a top studio with top producers, etc. 5000 Limited Edition (numbered) CDs are produced and each $10 Part recieves a copy of the Ltd Ed CD. Regular CDs are also cut and sold through the website, also now through Amazon UK, various bricks & mortar stores in Holland (still a new venture so still spreading their wings). There are also 3 songs for free download (DRM free high quality mp3), and the other songs from the album for download for 50 cents (US). Other stuff, including a Video that has had airplay on MTV Europe, available from the Artists as they see fit.

      Revenue from sales of the regular CD, downloads, and Advertising from page hits is then split equally 1/3 to Sellaband, 1/3 to the Artist and 1/3 spread equally amongst the 5000 Believers - actually, so far there hasn't been an Artist with 5000 Believers as many buy way more than one Part each, as this gives you a bigger share of the Believer's third. You can also elect to only recieve some of the leCDs which saves postage (extra money for the Artist to record with) and Sellaband sells the leCDs giving you $11 back (10%) when they are sold. Each Believer has their own shop of Artists they have Parts in, and selling through your own shop gains you a little commission too.

      Sellaband hands back the ownership of the recordings to the Artist after 1 year, with the CDs, etc, being sold through the site for 2 years - the Artists can elect to stay with Sellaband for further years, return for a second/subsequent CD, etc ...

      So far, 12 Artists have made the $50K, with 3 albums out, and 1 single. There are over 6000 Artists on the site so far, each with 3 songs you can listen to from a huge variety of genres - some of which I like and some of which I don't!

      If this works it could well be a real music revolution - "Music Industry 2.0" - where the listeners are the indicators of what is good enough to make the $50K and get into the studio.

      --
      Eclectic beats from Leeds, UK
      handmadehands.co.uk
  5. For the first time I read TFA all the way through by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

    Great article. Especially with the dig at Pete Doherty towards the end. I think he is making an important point with that example.

  6. Meta: your sig by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

    Count me in

  7. next up: by circletimessquare · · Score: 4, Interesting

    movies

    seriously, the internet is seriously fucking with the music and movie industry in some really important and earth shattering ways

    i for one look forward to a fracturing of culture: where before there were a few number of portals where people can find new music/ movies (a few radio stations, a few movie houses), now we will see a million online portals for all sorts of subgenres

    in a way its interesting how this will also reshape culture and a sense of identity: you belong to group a, because everyone in that group shares your interests and knows the same media you consume. everyone knows seinfeld jokes, everyone knows star wars references. whereas in a more fractured world, more subcultres are created, and more borders between groups of people not knowing commonalities between each other evolves

    interesting time folks. i look forward to it

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:next up: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      seriously, the internet is seriously fucking with the music and movie industry in some really important and earth shattering ways

      I'd almost feel sorry for them if they weren't such scumbags.

    2. Re:next up: by bennomatic · · Score: 1
      Hear hear!

      --
      The CB App. What's your 20?
    3. Re:next up: by aussie_a · · Score: 1

      i for one look forward to a fracturing of culture: where before there were a few number of portals where people can find new music/ movies (a few radio stations, a few movie houses), now we will see a million online portals for all sorts of subgenres Let's hope they're more like this rather then drek like this.
    4. Re:next up: by MMC+Monster · · Score: 1

      You just described slashdot. Cool.

      --
      Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
    5. Re:next up: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The internet is only a part of what's happening to the music industry right now. The second major component is the gradual reduction of the cost to record music. Even though TFA, among others, will falsely claim you can record an album on any old computer hardware, you're still looking at a minumum $5000 once off payment for the equipment that will make your music sound comparable to anything on the radio today. Hell, given how much of the stuff on the radio today is mixed and mastered (see here) with a good ear you should be able to produce better sounding material.

      Film and television, on the other hand... Well, one only has to take a look at some of the bedroom productions on youtube to get an idea of the massive difference budget makes to producing film. While I have no doubt that the cost to quality ratio will come down drastically over the coming years, most likely thanks to services such as youtube, I very much doubt it will be in the realms of possibility for some kid in his bedroom to create a film on par with anything being professionally produced. Which is exactly what's happening to music at the moment.

    6. Re:next up: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "whereas in a more fractured world, more subcultres are created, and more borders between groups of people not knowing commonalities between each other evolves" Sounds like a Tower of Babel sort of thing.
    7. Re:next up: by lysse · · Score: 1

      I'm optimistic too, but the phrase "divide and conquer" keeps nagging at me.

    8. Re:next up: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now you are thinking with portals.

    9. Re:next up: by tm2b · · Score: 1

      Yeah. As the revenue model evolves, we're going to see content that better suits narrower and narrower groups - fewer big smash hits (which risk huge flops) and more cult hits. Science Fiction will probably be first since its fans are so Internet-centric, but I'd expect other fanatic cultures (like sports fans) to soon follow.

      Even though its numbers were borderline, Firefly is interesting in that it was fueled by DVD sales, promoted by on-line fans, of a TV show that failed. Babylon 5: The Lost Tales is really interesting in that it was straight-to-DVD and promotion has been almost entirely through the Internet.

      I can't wait until the delivery model - of any TV show - is primarily over the Internet. Once that business model is proven from end to end, all bets are off - we won't be dependent upon the whims of TV and motion picture studio executives. Someone like JMS or Joss Whedon will just have to show financiers x number of fans on the Internet to get the money to green light production - and at some point, the fans themselves will be able to provide the seed capital. And anybody who can get their own pocket-bankrolled film (I'm thinking of a future version of Kevin Smith's Clerks, for example, which cost $27,575) to bootstrap over YouTube will be able to enter this business model. And even more excitingly, it's getting cheaper and cheaper to produce content.

      --
      "It is our blasphemy which has made us great, and will sustain us, and which the gods secretly admire in us." - Zelazny
  8. Almighty Institute of Music Retail by Animats · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The Almighty Institute of Music Retail cited in the article actually exists. It's like the marketing and promotion part of a record label, but without the label.

  9. Who would have thought... by thegrassyknowl · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...that (actual, talented) musicians could actually be successful without a record label!

    --
    I drink to make other people interesting!
    1. Re:Who would have thought... by stewbacca · · Score: 1
      And they can be successful by using the labels as well. You can't infer the correlation that you are trying to infer, in that good artists do it themselves, and crappy sell-out artists use the labels. I kinda get tired of the whole, "the industry is evil". If it is so evil, then the musicians should stop using them. If the other options are so good, and the industry so evil, then there really would be no reason for any artist ever to use the label route. Yet, thousands of artists become filthy stinking rich in spite of the dangers of going that route.

      As Mr. Byrne points out, there are tradeoffs for each model, and it is up to the artists to decide which is best. Personally, I can't stand spending one minute trying to promote any band that I'm in (other than talking about it with people and inviting peopple to shows), because it isn't any fun and is more work than everything else combined related to making music.

    2. Re:Who would have thought... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wtf modded this insightful?
      someone is smoking some serious crack here....

    3. Re:Who would have thought... by aussie_a · · Score: 1

      You can't infer the correlation that you are trying to infer, in that good artists do it themselves, and crappy sell-out artists use the labels. I didn't get that. I simply heard that good artists can succeed regardless of what they do while bad artists can't succeed without the studios pumping out their drek. Which means the sooner the studios die the better for all music lovers.
    4. Re:Who would have thought... by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      But the dreck is what sells. Otherwise, I agree with your contention.

    5. Re:Who would have thought... by gsslay · · Score: 1

      Well that's obvious. Technology and the interweb is going to continue changing the landscape of lots of industries, not just music.

      But what's more notable is that every example given by Byrne ends with the musician getting paid for their music. No-where is it suggested that everyone takes a copy for free and then self-servingly pontificates about how the musicians only have themselves to blame because their business model is obsolete.

      So what's the excuse going to be when the big nasty music companies are out the picture? Cos I'll guarantee now, people aren't suddenly going to stop file sharing music. They'll just scrape around for another excuse to justify why they shouldn't pay for it.

    6. Re:Who would have thought... by thegrassyknowl · · Score: 1

      The level of cheapness varies from person to person. The quality of the music from the big labels is usually fairly average. It's all the same dribble, over compressed and engineered to sound "popular".

      Lowering prices will help encourage more people to pay for music. The price of a CD is more in most stores now than it was 10 years ago, yet the cost of manufacture has continued to decline.

      When the big labels are out of the picture I'll imagine that there might be a bit more variety in music. There's a lot of variety now but you can't pick up a lot of it at your local big-chain CD store because they only carry what's popular and what carries the largest profit margins. If you want to get variety you either need to download it or find someone who sells the recordings; it's easier to find it in the intarwebs and download it.

      The other reason people download music is that they obviously see no value in it. It might be the case that the real way to make any money is give the tracks away for free then make your money playing live shows and selling merchandise. If people want to get a CD of it then they can pay a small amount that covers the cost of making the CD and then a little bit. The RHCPs (I believe) started out a similar way and they were doing reasonably well for themselves before they were a mega band.

      --
      I drink to make other people interesting!
    7. Re:Who would have thought... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WTF? You felt the need to point out that your own view of this post is not insightful? Shame on you. Not everyone who disagrees with your opinion is smoking crack. Perhaps it is you who are!

    8. Re:Who would have thought... by gsslay · · Score: 1

      The price of a CD is more in most stores now than it was 10 years ago You know, just because people keep saying things doesn't make them true. Let's have some facts;

      Price of chart CD on www.hmv.co.uk today; £8.99. Price of chart CD at Amazon; in the range of £5 - £9
      Price of mainstream advertised CD in Q Magazine in November 1997; £11.99 - £12.99

      So can we just stop with bollocks about CD prices? The price of a CD is about 30% cheaper than it was 10 years ago. In real terms that make it significantly cheaper.

      The quality of the music from the big labels is usually fairly average. It's all the same dribble, over compressed and engineered to sound "popular". Mainstream music has always been 90% dross. Are you only just noticing this? Yet amazingly people people still want it. Guess that's where personal taste comes into it.
    9. Re:Who would have thought... by thegrassyknowl · · Score: 1

      Let's see here...

      I said "in most stores". Buying CDs online from places like Amazon is a bit cheaper but you ignore postage and delays. I don't know anyone who buys actual CDs online. Everyone here still goes to the stores unless they're looking for something more obscure that you can't find in the stores.

      You are comparing apples to oranges anyway; online sales direct from HMV vs RRP in a magazine ad which meant a trip to the store. Why don't you walk down to your local music store and tell me the price of a mainstream CD.

      I can tell you that here, it starts at $25 and goes up depending on the "artist". 10 years ago the price of a mainstream CD was around the $20 mark. I have actually just gone and checked my CD collection to make a point because a few still have price stickers on them that I couldn't be bothered ripping off 10 years ago.

      Sure, I can buy online and save a few dollars but then they gouge me for postage anyway and it works out mostly the same.

      --
      I drink to make other people interesting!
  10. I didn't see this option by pembo13 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I scanned through the article, and didn't see mention of this option:

    A subscription and/or ad based supposed set of central sites where artists post their music to from $0 and up, or as I preferred with AllofMp3, per unit of bandwidth -- with multiple codec options. And then said artists play music at concerts, small performances etc... ie. play for their supper. This may reduce the number of hummers that some artists can purchase, but I think it would be worth the loss. Maybe I could actually find new music that I like again.

    --
    "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
    1. Re:I didn't see this option by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't believe I keep hearing (reading) this nonsense over and over again online. Who are you to mandate what musicians have to do? "Play for their supper", post their music for next to nothing, etc. Why don't you work for "$0 and up" and sing for yours? Musicians are not beggars; if you don't like what they charge, don't buy it. (Not that you do anyway, at least not legally as you've alluded to using AllofMp3.)

    2. Re:I didn't see this option by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      What if subscription/ad-supported music production won't be enough to fund a particular endeavour? What if a piece of music being downloaded for bandwidth cost (plus small margin) can't be adequately performed? What about the people who actually like the options you're clearing away just because you haven't found new music that you like?

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    3. Re:I didn't see this option by hedkandee · · Score: 1

      Check imeem.com - they're doing the whole advertising thing with all the major labels and a lot of the indies giving the green light. The only difference with what your saying is that the artist doesn't need to do anything more than registering their music and allowing their music to be played on the site, since the music on imeem.com is uploaded by its users the artist need never even visit imeem.com, if they have enough fans they'll just start getting royalty checks.... or more likely their label will get the checks and take their cut first.

      --
      Up for it.
  11. I Didn't Know He Was Scottish.... by illectro · · Score: 1

    And I know a lot of wierd things about his music, like his collaboration with Fatboy Slim - A Musical about Imelda Marcos

  12. As far as I am concerned, by Fengpost · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    the music should be free or nearly free throught digital distribution, and the artist can work for their paycheck through concert, and endorsement deals.

    --
    The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity....Calvin
    1. Re:As far as I am concerned, by Beastmouth · · Score: 1

      Yes, because you have to rock hard to shill for shoes. Sure, CDs are crap and I doubt I'll buy another one, but I've still got two turntables and pick records up every chance I get. As far as digital distribution goes, why not give someone a couple bucks? Radiohead has already made millions off In Rainbows and it hits stores Tuesday.

    2. Re:As far as I am concerned, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, *yawns* you're so hip listening to your vinyl, with your two turntables and a microphone.

    3. Re:As far as I am concerned, by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      I completely agree. I also think I should get the products of your labour for free and that you should make money doing something else that I have no interest in paying for.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    4. Re:As far as I am concerned, by gsslay · · Score: 1

      Absolutely. Cos all types of music work well live, and all musicians are great live performers. And they should all sell their music to the highest bidder in endorsement and sponsorship deals, because fans love adverts with their music and fully respect musicians who commercialise their music.

    5. Re:As far as I am concerned, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hipper than you, Mr. I'm-so-above-everything. At least he has a passion. Why don't you tell us what you do that has a devoted subculture just so we can make snarky remarks about it?

  13. talking head? by nawcom · · Score: 1

    Being born in 1985 and not knowing the band, for a second there I thought this was some easter egg in submissive jesus. Or from that talking head that ran after me in those nightmares I used to get. Perhaps not knowing the band is a good thing for me.

    1. Re:talking head? by bennomatic · · Score: 1
      Jeez. In 1985, I was [doing things that I don't want described in detail on the Internet] and going to midnight showings of the Talking Heads concert movie, "Stop Making Sense." Is it possible that people born that year can now legally drink? Holy heck.

      Seriously, though, go get a copy of the "Stop Making Sense" soundtrack. It's great music. "Burning Down the House" is one of the all-time great songs. The early eighties might have been rife with strangely dressed cookie-cutter synth bands, but a few good songs/albums did come out around when you were born. Ever hear of a little Irish band called U2?

      --
      The CB App. What's your 20?
  14. Not an Apple Fanboi, but... by bennomatic · · Score: 5, Insightful
    ...I have just one issue with the thing he mentioned about bands making less from iTunes than from a normal CD. I understand how the numbers work and I've seen the argument before, but there's one thing that he (and Weird Al et al) are missing from the equation.

    And that is that iTunes (and their ilk) brought the power of the single-song purchase to millions of people who did not have it before. Before iTMS came out, I had not bought any music in several years, close to a decade. Mostly, because, while I love the concept of whole albums--I cut my teeth on Pink Floyd's Wish You Were Here, for example--a lot of what comes out from the majors these days is indeed one or two good songs on an album of cr@p.

    So since iTMS came out, I have bought at least 100 songs from albums that I never would have purchased. So those artists aren't getting $1.40 instead of $1.60 because I bought their album on iTMS; rather, they are getting $0.09 instead of $0.00 because I bought a song.

    I know my $0.09 isn't much, but neither was my $1.60. And if there are millions of people like me--or even hundreds of thousands--I would guess that the introduction of the a la carte $0.99 song has been a boon for lots of artists.

    Another thing to think about is that iTMS doesn't just sell artists from the majors; they also sell independents (search for "Cousin Isaac", a buddy of mine who sells a couple of albums via iTMS). I don't know the details of how that works, but it seems like there are opportunities for artists in some of Byrns' "control your own destiny" plans to take advantage of that infrastructure.

    --
    The CB App. What's your 20?
    1. Re:Not an Apple Fanboi, but... by Swampash · · Score: 1

      Case in point: me. I don't buy CDs. I occasionally buy tracks from the ITMS. Thus artists do not make more money from my CD purchases than from my digital purchases - it's a comparison between "nothing" and "something". The ITMS is infinitely more profitable for the artist if buying behavior like mine is the norm.

    2. Re:Not an Apple Fanboi, but... by fortunato · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I agree with you wholeheartedly. However, I would add that I think the whole point of his article is that there is a massive shakeup going on in the industry, as anyone who reads Slashdot knows, and he was basically pointing out just some of the various new ways a musician has at his/her disposal to distribute their music. He broke it down into six, but I don't really think his intention was to make his six examples the only options. Those were just the biggest options right now. It's way too soon to say which models will be the "new" models in the future. But this was an excellent start and a great introspective into what exactly is going on from the business side. I personally can't wait to see what the new models end up being in the long term and I have no sympathy for the greedy machine that the music industry has so obviously become. They made their bed and now they get to sleep in it. Maybe their really IS such a thing as karma.

    3. Re:Not an Apple Fanboi, but... by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      I agree. If Mr. Byrne is correct, and the artist makes about the same in royalties from a cd as the artist does from a download (because Apple eats up the 30% normally taken by distro and other costs of regular cds), the Artist will come out ahead eventually. Why? Because the cost to the consumer is less for the same amount of music, freeing up more money for the consumer to buy MORE music from the artists.

    4. Re:Not an Apple Fanboi, but... by jbengt · · Score: 1

      I believe that you are misunderstanding his point. It was not that the iTunes sales are bad for the artist. It is that the artist loses out on the potential available from the lower costs associated with online sales. The label is giving the artist a percent of a lower total, rather than the same or better royalty in absolute terms. The benefits of lower costs are being shared by Apple, the consumer, and the label - but the artist is typically taking home less money per unit. Not to mention the standard contracts that charge the artist for "breakage", etc.

    5. Re:Not an Apple Fanboi, but... by bennomatic · · Score: 1
      Agreed; we should feed the major labels to the lions. Hence my point about iTMS selling independent artists stuff as well. I think artists that go that route get more, something like $0.25/song, but I do not know for certain. That would have been an interesting data point to include, as I believe that iTMS (and other similar services) *can* be a tool that benefits artists as you describe, rather than just the consumer, the distributor (in this case, iTMS) and the label.

      However, I did not miss the point; I was making a complementary point which I have seen left out more than once in discussions of whether or not digital download sales are better than CD sales. My point is that while the benefits may be weighted towards the label, the artist does indeed get a benefit. Byrne makes a great point for working towards getting a bigger slice of a smaller pie, but in this particular case, while it may be a smaller slice of the pie, it is indeed a pie that otherwise would not exist.

      That having been said, any label which treats their artists like chattel should, as I say, be thrown to the lions. And it'll happen. As soon as someone comes up with a socially driven music recommendation system that can't be heavily gamed, so that quality music does not get lost in the crowd, but rather is recommended to the people who are likely to enjoy it, without a Pepsi concert tour promotion or some shite like that. I know people are working on them: I sort of like Amie Street, but I'm not quite sure that there's one out there that makes it as easy as it should be to find (and thus promote) new music to people who don't know it's coming.

      --
      The CB App. What's your 20?
  15. Talent by coldcell · · Score: 1

    What's really eye-opening is how much the dinosaur labels managed to entrench themselves in the idea that their business doesn't need it. Now that you have a lot of the talented musicians in the industry moving to flexible labels and newer ways to distribute, the relics that continue making plastic pop icons for a quick dollar will (hopefully) wither.

    --
    Launchy.net changed my world.
    1. Re:Talent by thegrassyknowl · · Score: 1

      You'd hope the relics would wither but instead they are rallying politicians and passing more draconian laws to further protect their interests (indefinite copyright is one).

      These people/labels have realised that they are on the way out and they are setting themselves up to protect their income for at least their lifetimes. They don't give a shit what happens after that.

      I shouldn't really say on the way out because that is not true. There will always be a majority element of popular society who buys into their dribble. The business model of the big labels will shift in time and their foothold will be further lessened. I doubt our lifetime will see them completely removed.

      --
      I drink to make other people interesting!
    2. Re:Talent by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 1

      OK, the thing that you need to understand about the music industry currently is that the focus is the end product, not the means of production. Music is no longer the one man (or one band) show that it was. There are a variety of people who collaborate, not least the performer, to produce a piece of music to sell. Like it or not, that's the way things are right now. It certainly does not mean that you don't have to have talent, it just means you don't have to do every job in the music creation process. You can focus on what you happen to be best at, or you can try your hand at everything if you wish.

      And I, for one, don't personally care where my music comes from, so long as it sounds good.

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
  16. More creative business models for musicians by thbb · · Score: 4, Interesting

    David Byrne's article is well thought out, but quite unimaginative. There are many other ways to produce music and make a living with it.

    For instance, since 2001, Einstuerzende Neubauten has been exploring new ways to produce records and interact with their public while producing the album. Their last 3 albums were produced by a subscription (like Mozart used to do in the 19th century!). As supporters, we could attend the recording sessions via webcam, chat online with the band members, or use the forums to discuss about the directions taken by the band ; we obtained early versions of the songs, and attended private concerts. Unanimously agreed as a great experience!

    They've been fairly successful so far, though they still want to polish their formula. There is a nice interview about their latest album and the issues they face in going "label-free".

    1. Re:More creative business models for musicians by stewbacca · · Score: 2

      There are many other ways to produce music and make a living with it.
      Undoubtedly there are more ways than Mr. Byrne stated, but to be fair, he was merely walking us through the business as it stands right now, limiting his response to just those realistic paradigms that are available.

    2. Re:More creative business models for musicians by haven2008 · · Score: 1

      It is not exactly working out as it should with Einstuerzende Neubauten as you can read in this article on Einstuerzende Neubauten

  17. I'm totally off topic, but I gotta say... by stewbacca · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Mod me totally off topic, but this post highlights EXACTLY why the current state of music is where it is (from a pop quality standpoint). Even if you are only 20, how can you have NOT heard of the Talking Heads? Bands like The Talking Heads are what make me right when I argue that 80s music is better than 2000s music.

  18. So what he's basically saying is... by MrKaos · · Score: 1, Funny
    Stop making cents

    --
    My ism, it's full of beliefs.
  19. Mozart? by Dr.+Cody · · Score: 1

    (like Mozart used to do in the 19th century!)

    Ummm, Mozart spent the entire 19th Century decomposing.

    1. Re:Mozart? by zig007 · · Score: 1

      Ummm, Mozart spent the entire 19th Century decomposing. Are you saying he wasn't done doing that by then?
      --
      Baboons are cute.
  20. Check this out... by Randwulf · · Score: 1

    This may not be exactly what you're looking for, but SellaBand.com has a lot of free streaming music from good artists looking to 'make it.' Some music is downloadable as free samples. Other songs are downloadable for $.50 a song, or download a whole album for $1.00 to $3.50. DRM free! There are over 8000 artists on the site. You can make a playlist of what you like, so you can listen to your favorite SellaBand artists whenever you're online. Twelve (12) artists have raised a budget of $50,000 through the site to make/distribute/promote their album. While their may be some duds on the site, the artists pulling in the cash/support of fans are certainly a cut above the rest. http://www.sellaband.com/

  21. Its nice to see real figures by JustNiz · · Score: 1

    I don't know where he got those charts from but they're very informative, assuming they are accurate.
    They're going to be great input into our cube discussions at work (that occur while we're meant to be working).

  22. It's changing by jbengt · · Score: 1

    my favorite quote:

    . . . gives them the right to exploit their work in mediums to be invented in the future -- musical brain implants and the like.
  23. more like we-already-knew-that dept. by LowEndTheory · · Score: 2, Interesting

    from the article:

    "Recording costs have declined to almost zero. Artists used to need the labels to bankroll their recordings. Most simply didn't have the $15,000 (minimum) necessary to rent a professional studio and pay an engineer and a producer. For many artists -- maybe even most -- this is no longer the case. Now an album can be made on the same laptop you use to check email."

    As much as I used to like the Heads, Mr. Byrne, like most of his ilk, exists in a vacuum. (Not his fault, really)

    If one defines "album" as a collection of "sound organizations" (or songs), then the above is certainly true. But he should talk to all the singers, songwriters and musicians out here that want to do "different" things - like have a real string quartet or chamber orchestra, or a really good gospel choir, or record the interplay between a great jazz drummer and an insane guitar shredder, or do an HD video release of the recording session, etc. etc.

    Not to say there aren't lots of really great things that actually are produced on a laptop (I've heard some really cool stuff on MySpace, believe it or not), but there are still about as much costs involved if one really needs to take one's endeavor "to the next level" (ugh - I hate that phrase, sorry)

    1. Re:more like we-already-knew-that dept. by zig007 · · Score: 1

      As much as I used to like the Heads, Mr. Byrne, like most of his ilk, exists in a vacuum. (Not his fault, really) I would actually say the complete reverse, that he knows EXACTLY what he is talking about. Obviously, he's not unaware that people wants to, and already do, sell single songs(or "works", for adequate pretense).

      Of course he know the things you talk about. But what he is referring to is recording costs and distribution.
      When he is saying "almost zero" he is talking about a couple of hundred dollars or a figure that even poor musicians can muster themselves. Compared to the hundreds of thousands it used to cost.

      Using a laptop, a cheap mixer( $100), and a couple of acceptable (rent the ones rarely used) microphones, and a little bit of imagination, one can actually make a fair quality recordings of even chamber orchestras and gospel choirs...

      Of course, of you want to be "different" by doing huge, hence expensive, one-off recordings and involve lot's of people....sure, you would probably need a bit more money.
      But that is so obviously not what he is talking about.
      --
      Baboons are cute.
    2. Re:more like we-already-knew-that dept. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      But he should talk to all the singers, songwriters and musicians out here that want to do "different" things - like have a real string quartet or chamber orchestra, or a really good gospel choir, or record the interplay between a great jazz drummer and an insane guitar shredder, or do an HD video release of the recording session, etc. etc. When I was at school, my Young Enterprise company put out a CD containing recordings from the school orchestras and bands. The entire cost, including getting the CDs professionally duplicated and paying for performance rights to the in-copyright songs was around £3-4 per CD for an hour of music selling 200 copies (I think; these figures are from memory).

      Note that this was around a decade ago. Costs have gone down a huge amount since then.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    3. Re:more like we-already-knew-that dept. by LowEndTheory · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, true, anyone can make anything very cheaply, I try to do that myself all the time!

      I also know that it didn't used to cost "hundreds of thousands" necessarily. That was the domain of the over-inflated mega-rockstar budgets. I've worked on many albums that had those kinds of budgets. Most of that money went to food, hotels, airfare, transportation, "handlers", personal chefs, etc., all of a very lavish nature. (Not begrudging them either, I think people should have fun with their money). But it would have been possible even in the 70s to go into a studio with a well-rehearsed band of people that could actually play and sing and crank out ten songs for less than 5000 bucks.

      Also: use a cheap ($100) mixer and "a little bit of imagination" is not a guarantee of really great sound. Mic'ing is most definitely a science and an art. I don't for the life of me know how the really good engineers in the world do it. And very cheap mixers have too little dynamic headroom. Not to mention that a really good chamber orchestra costs an awful lot (especially in the US).

      But there is quite the spectrum however. And that's what I love about music - it covers the entire range of end users, from the guy in the old Buick playing his music through a little 2-inch speaker to the HD home theater buffs.

      And having said all that (gasp), an old adage: If the singer is amazing, it doesn't matter what microphone you use. If the singer is lousy... well.. it doesn't matter what microphone you use.

    4. Re:more like we-already-knew-that dept. by LowEndTheory · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Your absolutely right, the costs for those particular things has definitely come way down, thank god.

      It's a bit different for a band or singer-songwriter these days. I could do an album right now, for free, with the technology we have today. As long as I have the software. Which could range from free (very poor choice), cracked or stolen (even poorer), a couple of hundred dollars to about $10,000. Oh, and a good mic if I want to actually sing. I should also have a couple of backup drives (200-300 bucks), because if my main hard drive crashes, I have to start over again. And that would mean more time, which actually does equal money. (I am excluding other things like good pre-amps, plug-ins, cost of a computer powerful enough to run the software, etc). Oh, and a couple of hundred dollars if I want to actually put it on a CD and distribute it at my shows, as well as the time that it will take to actually burn all those CDs. Hmm, should probably have some kind of artwork, I suppose.

      Or I could use a replication house, like Discmakers. Actually a pretty good deal, 1000 discs for about $1000, artwork, jewel case and labels included.

      Maybe I'll just forget CDs altogether and distribute Internet-only. Cool, 99 cents for every song! Minus, of course what CD Baby and iTunes takes from that. But it's still way better thhan what major labels used to screw artists with.

      But how do I distinguish myself from the 30,000 other artists out there who did the same thing?

      and so on...

      The most beautiful and the most frustrating thing about music is that it is by far the most abstract and invisible of all the arts, shrouded in one of the most opaque and cloudy business models ever.

      Whee!

    5. Re:more like we-already-knew-that dept. by zig007 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I also know that it didn't used to cost "hundreds of thousands" necessarily. No, of course you are right, that is a completely insane level if one were talking about the cost of making a single recording for the normal band.
      I must have thought about the costs of the buying studio equipment then vs now, because people were talking of purchasing computers and gear.

      I remember though, in the old days, when a 16 or 24 channel 2 inch recorder(+controller gear and Dolby NR units), a then requirement for any serious mainstream recording studio to compete, could cost from 20-30 000 dollars to much, much more to purchase. And tape costs were actually high enough to constrain the productions.
      The same equipment would nowadays equal some pretty ordinary multichannel sound cards(ok, maybe not totally ordinary then).

      Of course nothing is a guarantee of great sound, mic'ing is still an art, or maybe more of a science... However, now, at least, people can afford to try(and maybe fail).

      My point is anyway that what you are talking about is quite large productions(i mean, choirs?), most are not like that, they are 5 weird dudes and a tape recorder that want a better sound than what they got recording using one mic during rehersals. And that whats he talked about, if I understood, TFA correctly.

      You're right about the singer. What sucks, sucks even worse when you hear it better.
      It's a horrible revelation for some bands....always fun to watch....moaaahaa :-)
      --
      Baboons are cute.
    6. Re:more like we-already-knew-that dept. by LowEndTheory · · Score: 2, Interesting

      For a studio owner? Oh yes, life was (and still is) brutal. Those huge Neve or SSL consoles are a million or more. That, along with the cost of everything else, drove strong men to weep and lose their sanity on a regular basis. Huge nut every month...

      I think in a weird way it's way cheaper and just as expensive these days to produce music. The lines are definitely blurring between artist/label, or artist/engineer, labe/distributor, artist/distributor/road manager... it's freaky, it's really cool - just a pain in the ass to sort out and impossible to put in neat little boxes.

      The real boon, I think, is that more and more people (including the "5 weird dudes with a tape recorder" - love it!) are able to jump in and try the music-making game. It might be that as more and more people get to achieve fairly good results for very little money, they will begin to recognize that the old-style "big mega-stars" are not in fact, gods, and that what really counts actually is talent and hard work. I'm hopeful that it will induce "professional" musicians, artists and maybe even the "Industry" (ugh) to stop putting out so much garbage.

      Ah, such is the glory and mystery of music. Well, that and Britney Spears on the MTV Video Awards. I mean, a little garbage is okay... :^)

    7. Re:more like we-already-knew-that dept. by zig007 · · Score: 1

      just a pain in the ass to sort out and impossible to put in neat little boxes. Yep. Actually it is quite interesting to see the industry trying. Since everybody in it has had well-defined roles and jobs(and aspirations) forever... I mean how much has really changed the last 60 or so years in how a record(which it ALWAYS has been) has been marketed and distributed? Not much.
      Hence, the industry has solidified, and now, there is a possibility that everything will be completely turned over on it's head and suddenly they will have to move really fast to survive.
      You know, for Britney and the like, it is all about the money, BIG money...And to them(she, her producers, managers), this is a huge opportunity to earn massively more of it, since the customers won't know the difference. I think that when it comes to the big stars, this is just the beginning, it's enough that a few does it, and it is suddenly an alternative to bring up in negotiations with your label.

      And as you said, it will be a boon for everyone else as well.

      --
      Baboons are cute.
    8. Re:more like we-already-knew-that dept. by LowEndTheory · · Score: 1
      Well, yes, marketing hasn't changed all that much. You have to do it, always had to, and you generally use the same tricks. But the actual distribution I would say has changed pretty dramatically in the last 60 years. Snocap, iTunes, CDBaby, Discmakers et. al., selling your own CDs at gigs, home-burnt or not (not many people had cutting lathes for vinyl 50 years ago), sticking CDs into magazines (LPs just didn't work as well for that), physical copies of music in places like Wal-Mart, Barnes & Noble or the corner deli, Starbucks et. al (the custom, in-house label spinoff concept), ringtones. Aaaiieee!! I actually remember when you just went to the record store, maybe the musical instrument store, and bought a record. And that was it, besides Columbia House.

      So to me, on the one hand the industry has indeed solidified, calcified even... but on the other hand it seems to be liquefying - the ground keeps shifting beneath everyone's feet, throwing everybody off balance, and everyone's wondering what to do. It's the huge conglomerates who have the toughest time, like a huge steamship trying to turn on a dime to avoid the big glacier. Us guys in the small speedboats can zigzag around and back a lot easier, even though the waters are still treacherous.

      So I leave you with one of my favorite quotes about our beloved industry. It pretty much accurately reflects the often brutal and sad process of "natural selection" that is at work. Not pretty, definitely not perfect or what I would like, but it's what we got. (sigh)

      "The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic
      hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs.
      There's also a negative side." -- Hunter S. Thompson


      I'm off to revel now... have a Happy New Year!
    9. Re:more like we-already-knew-that dept. by zig007 · · Score: 1

      Happy new year to you too!

      --
      Baboons are cute.
  24. Here's the bottom line by Master+of+Transhuman · · Score: 1

    And Byrne correctly sees it in the article.

    Music as "product" is out.

    Music as "performance" is back in.

    You produce CDs as loss leaders for your tour, not the other way around as it used to be.

    As I've said repeatedly here and elsewhere, nobody in history has ever PAID FOR MUSIC. They've paid for ACCESS to music - whether it was drinks at a pub or bar, or tickets to a concert. Nobody paid for the music itself. The Grateful Dead realized this with their motto, "The music's free - the concert costs."

    Only when phonographs came in was it possible to charge for music. And as soon as reel-to-reel tape recorders could be hooked to phonograph players, and later when cassette recorders with radios built in came into being, that period was over.

    When the PC and ripping of CDs became possible, that whole concept of "music as product" was doomed.

    The future is live broadcast over the Net by subscription and touring.

    Don't tell me it can't be done. It's the only way musicians are going to make money in the future, so it will be done.

    Besides, as the Situationists said forty years ago, "Art has been superceded. The only art worth making today is your own life."

    --
    Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
    1. Re:Here's the bottom line by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The future is live broadcast over the Net by subscription and touring. Don't tell me it can't be done. It's the only way musicians are going to make money in the future, so it will be done."

      I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you are not a musician. Beyond what has already been said about how many musicians are not good performers, let me add the following:

      Aside from popular music performance there are lots of other alternative income streams for performing and recording musicians. In my 20+ years in and around the industry I've known lots of people who made a decent living and supported their families doing as session players, doing jingle work, as accompanists, or even just as cocktail lounge players. I know some people who are employed full time by Sony Music as salary-musicians, they show up at 9AM, fill the days order sheet of required work and leave at 6PM.

      Another problem with your assumption is that it doesnt include music which though can be done live, has nothing to do with performance. Most dance music, electronica, dub reggae, not to mention many academic genres leave much to be desired as live performance. I've been involved with the production of about 50 commercial releases that I can remember and a countless number of demos and even though there was alot of good music in that time, none of it was anything I'd actually pay to see live.

  25. Music Doesn't Mean As Much by MadMacSkillz · · Score: 1
    Music doesn't mean as much to people as it did in the past. It's got so much more to compete with - Internet, cable, DVD's, video games, and on and on. And even though it's cheaper to make than ever before, the cost has gone up, due to corporate greed. The symptoms of this are rapidly declining CD sales, fewer and fewer venues for musicians to play at, and decreasing pay for those remaining gigs. Lots of people think that musicians should have to make a living playing live, but they should also recognize that musicians who gig for a living will all tell you that there are fewer places to play, and those that do pay are paying the same pay they gave out in 1970.

    But people still enjoy MAKING music, and technology has made it easier for folks to make their own CDs. So we're ending up with a glut of amateur and semi-pro music. I do believe, though, that eventually the cream does rise to the top, and if you make good music, people will eventually find you. Maybe not lots of people, but some. Regardless, people who make music nowadays need to be making it because they love to... because there's not a lot of money in it. But for guys like me who already have careers, that's OK. We'll continue to make CD's because we love to make music.

    --
    Music - www.richardmac.com