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Wonder Woman Gets a Woman's Point-of-View
theodp writes "Traditionally, comics have been by, for and about men. But more and more women are breaking into the traditional boys' club. Beginning with Wonder Woman #14, the superhero's tale is being told by Gail Simone. It's a break from nearly 66 years of being written for the most part by men. '[Her work as a blogger] led to a writing job for the all-female comic 'Birds of Prey' for DC--which became a short-lived, live-action TV series--and in turn won her the "Wonder Woman" job. Simone says she sees a change since she wrote her refrigerator rant 10 years ago. 'At that time, the trend was towards grim stories where female characters were killed,' she says. 'We only had a handful of female characters to look up to. Today we're not seeing those stories so much.'"
Women won't understand.
This article proves that Vista is the worst operating system, because men developed it.
as long as the new Wonder Woman has big boobies and wears a skimpy patriotic bikini.
*blinks*
what?
It's true no man is an island, but if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie 'em together, they make a good raft.
Jack Nicholson was once asked in a movie, "How do you write about women so well?" to which he replied "I think of a man. Then I take away reason and accountability." Comics are boys club because boys don't want to read soap opera emo trash. Not that I'm a traitor to my gender, its just that its true. So maybe if this chick can bring those two little spices into the comic, she deserves to write it.
Sure baby, I'll give you my phone number...in Hex
Is this really such a big break when novelist Jodi Picoult wrote Wonder Woman last year, and is a woman herself?
William Marsden created Wonder Woman as a role model of what he considered feminine strengths. These are very much the traditional 'yin' feminine values and focused less on female empowerment and much more on beauty, demure behavior, and obedience. Women can be strong, Marsden reasoned, by focusing on their womanhood and need not waste time trying to fit into male roles.
Marsden was also a bit of a pervert. His wife and their live-in slave... er... maid, lived in more-or-less open polygamy. They were his bondage slaves, and were apparently quite happy to be so. This theme, of feminine happiness through obedience and subservience, is repeated frequently through Wonder Woman. Not only did Wonder Woman frequently get tied up with her own magic lasso, but pretty much all the Amazon girls loved being bound, spanked, or otherwise disciplined by their superiors.
While you may disagree with Marsden's symbolism, any retelling of Wonder Woman that leaves out the bondage isn't really doing the subject very much justice. Wonderwoman need not end up stuffed in a refrigerator, but she does need to be frequently paddled to keep the story moving.
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Her work as a blogger? Simone has been working in the comics industry for almost a decade now and got the job of writing Wonder Woman due to a solid history of writing well crafted, memorable, stories. She has worked for both the major comic companies and a few of the minor ones writing everything from established superhero books to quirky creator-owned stuff. To suggest that she got a high profile job because of her BLOG is kind of insulting to the hard work she has put in over the years.
Um...yeah...but no
Read the rant. Completely disagree. FYI I don't have hairy pits or legs.
Doesn't every character/hero of consequence go through some life-defining moment. She writes as is every female goes off to a grimson end or a tragic moment but uh hello...there's life....there's character building...there's a good friggin story.
Look at the list and it blatantly leaves out key figures in the comic universes. Examples:
Superman died
Batman was paralyzed only to come back and take out the sorry sack of shit who replaced him
Robin died
Spawn was a crusader who was reborn in hell...how more tragic is fighting for what you believe to be a noble cause and hello you go straight to hell
Wolverine was used, abused, lost his memory and then ended up working for the X-men
Sorry...but a personal pet peeve is a feminist fight without a true argument. Sorry to say but women were allowed the same fates as men. I personally love when the woman is a villain. At least we're acknowledged as a threat. A good story always involves a sad or grimsom moment for the lead character. Thankfully women have been subjected to same fates of men in the comic world.
If you'd turn away from your thrice daily dose of 'liberal outrage', and crawl out of your parent's basement, you'd realize that the 'Nazi Socialist PC ball buster' only really exists in the minds of men who are insecure about their own masculinity. Others who continue propagate such trash, do so as they believe that some reward could be gained (ratings, votes, book sales, and other forms of income in particular).
The force that blew the Big Bang continues to accelerate.
Interestingly, Marston is also frequently credited as the inventor of the Polygraph. He discouraged its use as a law enforcement device.
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Wonder Woman graced the July 1972 and Fall 2007 Ms. Magazine covers.
No matter who writes Wonder Woman, we can all agree on one thing: that's one fine pair of funbags filling out that top.
Isn't it about time we stopped celebrating every time a woman works in a "geek" job, with the implication they're overcoming the sexism of the powers-that-be in industry or some other such nonsense?
I'm sorry, but I don't believe the prejudice is there. These are simply businesses that attract men (and geeky ones at that.) If you have to ask why, then you never went to junior high. Geeky girls don't find solace in video games and superhero comics the same way boys do (barring exceptions, I'm speaking for millions here), and certainly don't aspire to make them their careers.
I've worked in comics. Trust me, the editors would love to have more female artists and writers involved, but the applicants just aren't there in any significant numbers. And by the way once you start delving into the indie comics scene, which is closer to "art", you'll find that easily a quarter to a third of the creators are women. They do like the medium of cartooning, it seems, they just don't care about superheroes.
Surprise! Comics and manga are really the same thing!
When life gives you lemons...make grape juice. Because grape juice is *so* much better than lemonade.
That she's not going to be a self-righteous, smug, dismissive, bore who thinks physics is a construct of man and her pussy is a weapon of war.
Positive female role models (and not the kind whose beating a guy up) are hard to come by. Usually ploys of conformity for reliable demographical behavior in buying and voting.
- Batman
- Wonder Woman
- Spider-Man
Have I missed any?How is the comics business doing? Still trying to be hip and edgy, but saddled with a failing business model?
Viral software licensing is not freedom, it is in fact GNU/Socialism.
Superman is flying around the world looking for villains, while he discover that Wonder Woman is laying on a grass field, completely naked and legs open. He thinks "this is my occasion, she always said no to me" and using his super-speed, penetrates her like this: ba-dang! and then flies away. At that point, the invisible man says - ouch! what a pain in the ass!
Oh, Please! Now Wonder Woman is going to turn into some feminist claiming oppression by the male race ...
FFfffffffffFFFFfffffffffffffFffffffff
ppPpppPPPPPPpppppppppppPpppppppppp
FROST IT BITCHES
Oh, I guarantee that women like that exist. There is simply too much diversity in the world for them not to. It's the principle of "If you can think of something, it already exists on the Internet, and there's probably already fetish porn about it."
But while I wouldn't call you a "Nazi Socialist PC ball buster", look what you did here: "men who are insecure about their own masculinity."
I don't disagree that it's possible to be feminist without being a feminazi, and you may even be right that the feminazi is a myth. But I've seen women propagate and participate in that myth.
When attacking others for their intolerance or prejudice, it helps to not be showing your own prejudice in the same breath. (Not even going to start with the "crawl out of your parent's basement" comment.)
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
Makes perfect sense, she really should be cooking and cleaning. and as another poster mentioned, skimpy bikini is preferable.
Why do women wear white on their wedding day?
so the dishwasher matches the oven
The phrase "more better" is acceptable English. suck it grammar Nazis
Of course their masculinity is threatened. What psycho-sexual complex do you think something like this springs from if it weren't?
And if it's on the Internet, it must be true!
In 1993 I was a freshman at a large university. I saw a fellow student staggering under a double armload of textbooks, and I did precisely what I would do for any student in a fellow situation: I opened the door. The fact this student was female had no bearing on my decision. In return for this, I got a glare and then a shouted "You know, it's because of domineering, overbearing males like you that one in four college women is raped!" Then she stormed off and found another entrance to the building, just so she could avoid the door I opened for her.
But wait, she's not the caricature the far-right draws of the militant feminist. She was just a jerk. Women can be jerks as easily as men.
A few years ago I was talking to a Women's Studies professor at Florida State and I related this story. I also mentioned how angry I had been at the time, still was, to be lumped in with rapists just because I opened a door for someone who had a double armload of books. This professor listened, considered her words very carefully, and then said clearly I needed to take her introductory Women's Studies course so that I could understand the jerk's "context". I said I didn't really care about her context, it was a stupid comparison to make, and the hate directed at me was entirely undeserved and uncivilized. "Yes, but that's the point, you see," she explained to me patiently. "You've never opened your eyes and thought about what sort of life experiences could make her react in such a way, or the actions you did which provoked this response. You only care about your own male-oriented view and undercutting the validity of her life experience." (I am not quoting her exactly, but I am quoting her pretty darn close. It's been a few years, but the outrageousness of the dialog has made it stick in my memory very clearly.)
She went on for about another ten minutes before I had enough and stormed away.
The woman in 1993 was just a jerk. The Florida State Women's Studies prof who defended her and not once expressed a sentiment of "yes, she was a jerk"? She was the right-wing caricature of a feminazi.
Fortunately, people like her seem to be rare. At least, I've never found one outside of a Women's Studies department. (And I've met one Women's Studies prof since then who characterized the Florida State prof as "what a bitch!", which did my heart no end of good.)
It's a boy's club because it's a boy's club?
That is, there are more men writing comics because there are more boys reading comics?
I mean, not that I mind it -- I do feel that soap opera emo trash doesn't help anyone, and I am a guy, after all. But I wonder, is there something about the medium itself that would prevent soap opera emo trash from succeeding?
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
"William Marsden created Wonder Woman as a role model of what he considered feminine strengths."
He created her because he liked to dominate women with bondage. Not exactly an example of feminine strength.
Intersting my ass.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
"If you'd turn away from your thrice daily dose of 'liberal outrage', and crawl out of your parent's basement, you'd realize that the 'Nazi Socialist PC ball buster' only really exists in the minds of men who are insecure about their own masculinity."
Sorry, you are wrong. Some women take pride being just that, and they announce it loudly. You really should look around a little bit more.
Also, stop propagating the 'basement' stereo type, it only make you look stupid and petty.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Slow News Day at Slashdot if you're covering something that was announced almost a year ago.
The next story will be about a foreigner and we will get to hear some jokes about them, preferably a light bulb joke.
Jackass.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
come on, doesn't anybody here read comics? CBR? Wizard? Wow.
Not one of the three posts I've responded to even indicated that the OP was an ass. Instead you'all seem to insist that they do exist, and actually you are right, they do, it's a big world and not enough people are on lithium. Claiming that some random loser on the internet lives in his parent's basement is far more likely on target, and nowhere near the insult that was given. One is far more likely to find a right wing nut job than a militant feminist, and I believe that I've done angered a whole nest of them, again.
BTW, for the record, I'm a dude, and I'd hardly call myself a feminist, but I really hate it when women of are subject to these sorts of bulling. Congratulations on your post, I'm sure that some idiot will take it as further proof that women deserve this kind of treatment.
The force that blew the Big Bang continues to accelerate.
Eon Flux: Dead. Reborn. Dead. Reborn. Dead. Reborn. Dead -- if [ "Eon" = "dead" ]; then rebirth; fi Eon rulez (please excuse 5kr1pt k1dd13 speak) Eon, will you please marry me? Nevemind my current wife - lets move to U**** where it's alright and we can build a super secret superhero fortress/luv-nest in the desert and thwart dickhead badguys together ;-) I'm an old married geek. If I comment anymore I'll just shoot myself in the foot again. Ah, what the hell, This *term zombie says "Send more r0x0r Eon - type grrrlz..." Mod me down - I'm going to bed, screw you clowns! Now just where'd I leave my false teeth and ankle wrap? Grumble... complain... ZZzzzzz....
Scared people react badly sometimes. I suspect that's what the academic was talking about with "context". It sounds like quite a harmless act intending to be helpful caused a bit of association there and got the reaction. Misunderstandings often for incedibly stupid reasons happen sometimes just due to eye contact - don't worry about it and don't assume you can define somebodies personality from one bad reaction.
Really? Perhaps feminist BB are just more common in Australia.
Semi-automatic amateur armchair Australian philosopher; conjecture ready at any moment...
Really you are the insecure one. Here is a nice gender neutral phrase for you. Go fuck yourself, no one gives a shit. Thanks for playing though.
Perhaps, but you will never meet one (feminist BB that is), and one is extremely more likely to run across a man who is a rapist, murder, a liar, 'insecure about their own masculinity' or living in their parents basement.
Oh, please.. quit this crap.
Feminists always come with arguments on how women are the default victims and stuff, and assume that women have no issues whatsoever.
When feminists speak, there's always a logical explanation for a woman's actions. But a man's actions always fit in the rape-murder-domination-masculine_insecurity category.
And this 'masculinity insecurity' argument is so tired is not even an argument. Nowadays it's simply a way women, ones with issues, found to offend men.
Still, no compassion for this girl you scared, and it's fairly clear that you scared her. Yes, it's likely she might have acted different if some girl ran up. However, just imagine a shy girl, first semester (maybe) in a large University , away from home, maybe just out of the 'date rape discussion' they force on every freshmen, walking back to her dorm, minding her own business. Random guy comes up and without any introduction get into her personal space. Then she gives a quick not even half though explanation, about why she got jumpy, but that proves she is a militant feminist.
What you should have done was announce yourself, saying perhaps 'let me get that for you'. I do it all the time, and a couple of times I've had them size me up for a second, in particular when I've blindsided them. I sincerely hope that someone doesn't judge you as harshly. Dude, you really need to take a fresh look at both of those conversations, I'll be that you see them differently, if you step back from yourself.
The force that blew the Big Bang continues to accelerate.
Wonder Woman in a P.O.V.? That's hawt!
I guess the longer this retarded thread continues, I should add my take...
/. now because I cant see comments nested and in the order they were submitted. Instead I have to slide a slider and then click "More" about 60 times...
In response to the comment above this.. That was pretty dumb.. Please untie all the black people and women in your basement that are still alive.. Maybe you should come my way; my AR-15, let me show it to you. Please tell your klan buddies I have some 7.62 mm pudding and pie here waiting for them too..
I do enjoy all the bra-burning femi-nazi responses, even the chicks who are in total femi-nazi denial.
I got a gal who I swear is outta 1949. Keeping her man happy makes her happy. Is she the chosen one sent to destroy the fem-nazi movement in this overly-politically correct world? She's my fucking super hero.
Retardo slashdot mods please mod this down.. and by the way, this new DHTML and/or AJAX comment viewing system is totally fucking retarded. I'll slowly stop reading
I didn't say that there aren't any psyco bitches, trust me, there are plenty of them and most don't even call themselves feminists. However that wasn't germane to the conversation. Nor did I say that all men are like that, I'm a guy and that's not me. I just said that one is more likely to find a man (or a woman for that matter) of that ilk than the above described militant feminist. Hell, I've only seen them on TV, the loud mouths always end up on TV, it's good for ratings.
Hell, it still amazes me that you guys seem to be making excuses for the original troll, somehow pretending that he had a point and was right to bully a woman on her significant accomplishment. !Nice.
The force that blew the Big Bang continues to accelerate.
"Replace 'male-centered' with 'self centered', and I think that she pretty much hit it right on the nose. Really, I'm sorry that you were 'scarred' by your 'book carrying event' but men and women both say stupid things all the time. Have you ever even considered that you scared her and she was searching for a reason to explain it? (I didn't think so)"
There's a subtlety I don't think you realize at work here. The myth of the perfect person. What's that? "But I didn't say that!" No you didn't...directly. The myth of the perfect person basically is..."I'm perfect...BUT!" With the "BUT" being replaced by some external agent whom blame (and negative consequences.) can be directed at.
Note I'm NOT avoiding the effects of others actions, but pointing out that if everyone took responsability of their (re)actions however inconsiquentual they might be. Ripple-effects would see to it that the good results wouldn't stay confined, and maybe the overall burden would be lesser.
Note that no one would ever says that avoiding exercise, and indulging in bad food habits is a better way to build a person, but we constantly try to avoid the weights that try our spiritual and moral muscles and eat an unhealthy mental and emotional diet and wonder why we're all out of shape for the inevitable hills an imperfect world offers.
not really, your validating her emotions for the cause of the all important self-esteem and encouraging her to misinterpret her local environment.
"the 'Nazi Socialist PC ball buster' only really exists in the minds of men who are insecure about their own masculinity."
You would be more convincing if you left out at least the most tired of Nazi-Socialist-PC-ball-busting clichés.
as a romance novel written from the point of view of the ridiculously sensitive male leads in the story:
"your tits are huge, let's shag"
yeah, that's going to sell romance novels
impossible proportioned female superheroes exist to satisfy the id of prepubescent boys. there is no female pov to these characters that has any meaning. they are stereotypical characters meant to satisfy male views about solving problems by fighting. women have their own fantasy fiction with impossible male characters meant to satisfy female views about the glory of courtship with a great guy
why mess with these shallow fantasies? nothing is improved, the value of the characters are just negated for their intended audiences
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Please tell me how the OP in this thread was somehow 'right'. People (including women) have been using the specter of the 'scary feminist' for so long it's gotten really old, but I'm sure that your glad that women can be random attacked in such manner. In particular when they dare to enter a male realm.
The problem with many (not all, many) feminists is that they really don't give a damn about empowering women (which I'm all for BTW)Really? All for? Sounds to me that your tolerance only last until they speak up for themselves and express their own opinions. Of course you'd probably object if I called you a right wing tool, and while it might be fun do so, there is a chance that I'm not entirely right, but hey, you're quick to judge harshly, so I should as well.
They've got their own agenda that has to do with taking power away from the "rich white man" and then using it to "get even" with him for all the bad things that he's done.So, these evil feminist are like the Black Panthers. Wow, f*****g culture of fear. The tell you of the most fringe elements of any movement, not even a complete picture, and you take it as gospel. Ditto heads, go figure.
The force that blew the Big Bang continues to accelerate.
By having an account the settings will be saved so you don't have to set them again. You can still post anonymously by checking "Post Anonymously". Once set up like that the new comment system is freaking sweet Works great, even on threads with hundreds of comments. Plus, no captha's.
I like slashdot, but it says something that when someone defends an innocent woman against a baseless attack by insulting the poster, this post gets moderated better. One gets tired claiming every little expect ion when responding to a troll, and for the record one might note that . Then this guy jumps in and says 'really, I've seen one', I wasn't talking about unicorns, I was talking of a fringe woman's political movement and took a good guess that the OP has never met a real one, and certainly not well enough to understand her issues. Talk radio is full of blow hards who use such talk for their own advantage, and one doesn't have to go any father than this story to see it's affect.
Usually Slashdot is much more reasonable, but apparently not when it comes to a woman's right not be randomly insulted. I know that in the end you were just trying to be nice. But trust me, you scared her, and she blurted out the first excuse that came to mind, the other girl recognized it, and was likely pissed that you didn't see it.
The force that blew the Big Bang continues to accelerate.
Heh... so basically you're saying that it started as a pervert's and misogynist's substitute for porn. Even the sophistry about a female's role and strength being reduced to obedience and modesty isn't entirely a new philosophical concept, it's pretty much standard misogynistic stuff.
Well, gee, I guess you illustrate perfectly why women didn't really take her as a role model.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
She wrote another "answer" rant called "Dead Men Walking", which selectively listed male heroes who had died and came back.
Her rants could probably be used in a textbook as an extreme example of biased sampling. They are extremely annoying to anyone with a science background, or people otherwise inclined to rational thought.
However, given her background as a hairdresser, one can maybe excuse the poor reasoning, and praise the clear prose. Too much logic is probably a handicap when writing superhero comics, if there is anything the superhero genre does not lend itself to, it is logic.
Actually, you're onto something there, but IMHO that quote really just illustrates the fact that men are more likely to relate to another man's view of women. It's because both have the same stereotypes and wishful-thinking ideas, while reality often tends to not quite fit that.
So, yes, if Jack Nicholson describes women as the men's stereotype of women, including the illogical and unaccountable part, other men will find it a perfect portrayal of women.
It's not even something new. In medieval Japan the justification of why only men are allowed to play women roles in Kabuki theatre was... that supposedly women are too close to feminity to play it accurately. At first read it sounds like a major WTF. If they're closer to feminity, wouldn't that make them _more_ believable in a woman's role? Well not unless you also consider the audience: for men. A real woman wouldn't fit the male audience's stereotypes and prejudices as well as a man playing those stereotypes. Those guys came to see their stereotypical medieval woman image, all airhead, submissive and utterly unable to even exist without a Real Man lording over her. They want to see someone embodying that stereotype to the letter, and sometimes melodramatically, not someone showing the quirks of a real woman.
Or you can see the same phenomenon on MUDs and, to some extent, MMOs. Men pretending to be women are quite often more believed in that role, than the real women. Believed by other men, that is. Because they fit the audience's distorted notions better than the real thing does.
Yes, there are also the ones dancing naked in the Stormwind fountain. But just because _some_ people are unable to play a stereotype well, it doesn't mean that it doesn't work for more talented authors and actors.
Just to be entirely fair, though, I suppose the opposite should also be true. A man portrayed by a woman should probably also be more believable to other women, than the real thing.
I've actually had the mis-fortune of seeing a few romance movies, and the guys were portrayed as far from the real thing as you can get without adding tentacles and bug eyes. Whether it was Mr Perfect wooing the heroine or the henchman or whatever, those just fell somewhere in _my_ uncanny valley. They acted disturbingly not quite like real men. The actors may have been biologically male, but the role wasn't. But apparently the core demographic for that kind of thing doesn't have their suspension of disbelief tripped.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Most cases of college rape are done by people the female knows. I do wish people would remember rape in any form requires you to have easy access to a person, so the chances of a stranger trying to sexually use you, is relativly slim (not to say one shouldn't be wary of course).
Incidentally, why do you assume I'm angry with women instead of this one female who for all we know doesn't exist? It's rather hard to be mad against a sex I consider equal to my own, but perhaps you think differently.
You are confusing "understandable" with "acceptable". In most cases, there is an understandable reason for unacceptable behaviour. For example, rapists have themselves frequently been molested as children. While that makes it possible to understand their behavior, it does not excuse it.
Now, in some extreme cases past experiences may be considered to be so extreme that the person in fact could not act in any other way than he/she did, and so is not responsible for his/her actions. That is also known as an insanity plea.
Since you were excusing the girl and laying all the blame on the guy, it does not seem likely you were just giving an explanation for her actions. You were in fact trying to shift blame. Exactly the same thing as first defending rapists by saying they had a bad childhood, and then going on to explain how it was the girl's fault anyway for wearing such revealing clothes.
Or perhaps you are arguing that the girl was crazy?
...didn't think so.
And yes, I am using rapists as an example exactly because this is a feminist discussion. Tends to flush out the hypocrisy...
If you associate opening a door with being raped then that's not the fault of the door-opener. The wallet example is a good one. If you pick up someone's wallet (or other important/valuable item) and hand it to them, you would surely be justifiably offended if they yelled 'Thief!' snatched it from your hands and ran away. You would be even more offended if they incorporated some prejudiced slur into their justification for calling you a thief - be it a reference to your gender, race or something else. Whatever experiences that person has had, they are still a jerk, or at least perhaps paranoid to the point of illness, if they associate a helpful action with malicious intent.
im in ur
True, but 'fear is the mind killer', and people should be given understanding when presented with unexpected events.
Incidentally, why do you assume I'm angry with women instead of this one female who for all we know doesn't exist?The real questions are "why are you 'angry' at her?", "why are her alleged actions inexcusable?". Even better than putting it in your sig, go ahead and print out the entire thread, right from the first troll post to this one, show it to every woman in your life. Your mother, sisters, daughters, girlfriend, wife, wife's girl friends, coworkers (if you dare), etc. Perhaps one of them will be utterly outraged at the side you took, if not most of them.
Honestly, my anger and sarcasm was more pronounce than needed, but the first post I responded to really pissed me off. Then the rest of you jokers, kept making excuses and using right wing nut job claims of feminism run amok. I'm not proud of all of my responses for this thread, some of my messages lack the editing I typically fuss over (way too tired), but I believe that my overall message has been one of defending women who I've seen insulted without reason. Real men defend women, not because they are weak, but because we are strong, besides there isn't enough women on this site to speak up in the first place.
Women! Know your limits! And for pity's sake - don't drive.
Get your own free personal location tracker
I would tell you that 81% of statistics are made up and that
it is 100% sure that your statistic is among the made up ones.
Heh, funny you mention my mother. She's one of the strongest people I've ever known in my life, and has a pathological hatred for stupidity. A woman like her would piss my mother way more than it irked me (can't get too angry at a story with no citations yes? please assume I've some logic, but no thesaurus in me), since such knee jerk reactions only perpetuate the stereotype that women can't control their emotions to allow rational thought, and that's an extreme pet peeve of hers. The rest of the females in my life vary in many ways, but the ones closest to me would agree that calling someone a rapist in that scenario is at best idiotic, and apologizing for your own stupidity is good manners. Perhaps I've stronger women in my life then you do.
Real men defend women, not because they are weak, but because we are strong, besides there isn't enough women on this site to speak up in the first place. Let me reword your logic, women are weaker than men and therefore need protection. After all if they were strong as we were why would they need protection? That's disgusting, we should be empowering women to overcome whatever... whatnots they have so that they may protect themselves, not coddling them. Women cannot accept anymore help then men get otherwise they are not equal to us. The way I see it real men uplift women (if necessary) since that benefits females the most. Weak men submit to their primitive protective instincts and make sure a woman will never be as strong as they are. Sexist at best, cowardly at worst. Then again you never claimed to be feminist, or believed in its ideals...What orginal poster/troll? You replied to a guy talking about Wonder Woman in a pantsuit with a rant about militant feminists. Did you mean to reply to some other post?
If you think women superheroes have it tough, black superheroes have it tougher. There's not one that's worth a damn. There's a whole movement promoting the black green lantern, and as far as I've read, that character will be used in an upcoming League o Justive series. To me that's heresy! It's like telling Superman's story from the point he resurrected! Green Lantern's main character and story starting-point should always be Hal Jordan! That's why I'm protesting the only way I can: With my wallet. Even though Hal Jordan's my favorite superheroe, I won't ever buy any merchandise that features Guy Gardner, Kyle Rayner, or John Stewart. If the comic studios want to promote a black superguy, create a new one!
Obviously, you're even more of an ass than him so we target you first.
Don't worry, his turn will come to pass. We do not discriminate among ass
but we have every right to prioritize.
Read http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Biting_Beaver
There really are that much worthless humans out there. Some of them are women. Some or man. Some are caucasian. Some are black. Some are asian.
Even if you belong to a minority, you can still be worthless.
#14: Wonder Woman takes on vericose veins
#15: Oprah Winfrey: How Amazons survive in today's slimmed down world
#16: 101 uses for your magical rope: Enliven your sex life in middle-age
#17: Dealing with menopause while kicking ass and taking names (Cameo appearance: Bat-Girl)
#18: Choose the right color panties when flying around in your invisible jet
#19: Wonder Woman vs. Osteoporosis
#20: Dr. Phil: Domestic violence and anger management. How to handle it when you're married to the Incredible Hulk (Cross-over series with Marvel Comics)
http://www.whuddafug.com
Japan has an entirely separate comics culture for females. That makes a lot more sense than making superhero comics more woman-friendly.
Truth be told, Manga's diversity is just huge, and shows how paltry comic culture is in the west. There are popular comics about baseball, mountain climbing, boxing, surrealism, relationships, historical fiction, art,... it goes on an on. Such things exist here, but they are little paltry niche items. Those things exist in Japan with commercial distribution and real readership levels.
Comiket, or Comic Market is held twice a year, and yet has over half a million attendees!
The center of comics culture is Japan.
I don't understand. Which AC were you? Or did you later decide to go AC and if so, why?
I would have just blown her a kiss. Might have worked up a salacious leer ..... Then I'd have returned to my life ..... and forgotten the incident.
At my age I quite often have women who offer me their seat in the public transport for instance. I always accept with thanks. Question of how you're brought up, I think.
How many beans make five, anyhow ?
That's way too complicated. Just change your User-Agent to Internet Explorer and the old comment system is back.
On the flip side, remember that most oppression comes from within oneself. Most of the rest comes from within one's peer group. Ever watch how women treat each other? My wife is a very strong intelligent woman, but a little overweight. Who do you think gives her more shit about that? Who do you think puts her down more, men or women? Men love the shape of her body, she's got nice curves. Women try to 'put her in her place.'
Maybe if feminists spent as much energy stamping out women's oppression among women as they do blaming men, we wouldn't be at this impasse.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
To access the ultimate comments view you just need to find 15-30 hot girls and get into a big hot tub with them. Not kidding.
Superman is drinking and chatting with Spiderman.
Superman tells :
- Last week I was flying over New York City, when I saw Wonder Woman, on the roof of a skyscraper, naked, her pussy wet, and groaning. Then of course my dick had a Super erection, and then I flew over her and fucked her Super fast.
Spiderman :
- Wasn't she angry after you ?
Superman :
- No, but Invisibleman was !
Votez ecolo : Chiez dans l'urne !
I didn't say that they don't do that. Real men have many responsibilities, I shouldn't have to list every responsibility when I mention one of them. Another straw man argument, you seem to be fond of them. Also, my ideas of a 'Real man' are my own expectations, which I don't always live up to, but I do try. When I don't, I try to make up for it, when I cannot, I just take it as a life lesson and move on.
Weak men submit to their primitive protective instincts and make sure a woman will never be as strong as they are.That is the side you have chosen. Look at this thread, the original troll post, which you have never even acknowledged, is a scathing attack against a woman's accomplishments. After that, it was all about you guys insisting that militant feminist are 'real', and expecting contrition from me for defending (I'll say it again for effect) a poor scarred girl caught up in a moment of fear. We all have fear sometimes, expecting perfect response under such circumstances is silly at best.
Only a sheltered person, or an idiot would think that, and I'm not about assume all women, (or men) are either. By insisting an (very) irrational emotion is a valid excuse however, you've posted one of the few real insults to women in this thread. So I'm an idiot for calling for understanding. Empathy for others is the most human of characteristics, however some lack it, men more often than women. In the end, I hope that your apparent lack of empathy is a function of internet abstraction and male competition (always wanting to be right), rather than the efforts of a budding psychopath.Have you read Birds of Prey?
It's an astounding mix of the superhero procedure with female ethics and interpersonal relationships.
When characters in are in conflict in male-written comics... they resolve it through a nice big punch up.
Gail Simone's characters resolve conflict in a way that is always surprising but also subtly reflects both who each character are, and (more importantly) reflects the nature of their relationship at that point in time - and the resolution of the conflict will change that relationship in the future, so future conflicts are resolved in an intelligently different way.
Jack Nicholson is cool, but he's also vastly immature, which is part of his appeal I guess. Reasonable and accountable are the last things I think of when I think of the man.
Who, me? Are you serious?
Maybe you were talking about this guy, who has since been modded -1 Troll. But that is not me. I entered this conversation with this comment, which has since been modded +5 Insightful, and I really, honestly don't see how it was "crass" or "trash talking".
But maybe I'm wrong. If I've said something crass, can you point it out for me?
That actually sounds more like you right now. Defending those poor feminists from stereotypes, but when I point out your flaw, you attack.
I honestly did not intend for this to be a fight. I meant for you to take a step back and learn something about yourself. Not for me, but because it would make you a more effective person.
Stereotypes all the same. You're far more likely to run across decent, well-meaning, mostly well-adjusted people than you are to run across rapist, murderers, or people living in their parents' basement.
I actually don't know anyone who lives in their parents' basement. Nor do I know of anyone who does. Maybe I'll never meet one?
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
the 'Nazi Socialist PC ball buster' only really exists in the minds of men who are insecure about their own masculinity
Two words(although there are many many many further examples if you want them): Andrea Dworkin
Having shown your claim to be false let me proceed to voice an opinion. To make a statement such as yours requires that the person making it is either honest but exists in a profound state of ignorance or is wilfully promoting an agenda through propaganda.
The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny - Aesop
You know, it's really depressing how these forums can expose just how nonchalant most guys still are about sexism. And no, I'm not a woman, or a "bra burning fem-nazi". For the sake of brevity (and because there's no arguing with outright bigotry) I'm going to ignore all the infantile sexist jokes that inevitably come up when a story like this gets posted. But for those of you who mean well but assume that being a woman in our society is all cake and soap operas, I sincerely hope you end up taking some kind of Womens' Studies course sometime so that hopefully you end up getting a badly-needed dose of context.
If you're a man consuming images in our culture, it's incredibly easy not to notice all the little (and not so little) ways that women are denigrated, from the classic "school crossing" icon of a dude firmly holding the arm of a younger girl, to female roles in Hollywood movies that serve little purpose other than to gratify both the male lead and the male audience member. This is because when the images in question are directed toward you, as they typically are, you will tend to accept images of women represented for male consumption because you haven't been given an alternative context, and more to the point, it gets you off. Nobody is asking you to feel ashamed for going to the movies (or at least I'm not) but it never hurts to be more aware of the ways this kind of stuff gets encoded in the media we encounter. Nor is it a bad idea to try to put yourself in a woman's shoes and try to imagine how irritating it can get when you're surrounded by images of women in the classic Western stereotype: irrational, passive, scheming, slutty or virtuous (or frigid) with no room in between, frivolous, etc. Claiming that some women in real life live up to their media representations is a cop out. That is, unless you are foolish enough to believe that your own identity is something whole and untainted by contemporary mythology, as though your mannerisms and fashion choices and social tendencies are obvious universalities of masculinity and not deeply performative amalgams of everything you have ever seen "normal" men do. Take the blinders off, people. We're all products of our culture. If this woman wants to tell the story of Wonder Woman from a female perspective, something that frankly should have already happened by now, great. You don't have to buy it. But don't doubt that there are nerdy comic-loving girls out there who would love to see a classic super hero shown from a perspective they can more readily relate to. You don't have to be a super-aggro-bitch (or a woman) to be a feminist.
Take Heroes for example... I really liked the show. But if you think about the characters for a minute you realize that all strong female characters are either raped (or someone attempts to sexually assault them) or killed. Why is that always the setup in action oriented entertainment? If she's a really strong female character she won't need to wait for the male to rescue her. P.S. This is an interesting site that discusses women in comics: http://girl-wonder.org/index.php
The truth is, to an extent that's how some things tend to be in comics. An interesting article on the phenomena is discussed using the character Power Girl.
http://daveslongbox.blogspot.com/2005/09/boob-war-climax-everybody-loves-power.html
Ever notice how every strong female on Heroes is either killed off, raped or suffers an attempted sexual assault? Except the motor mimic girl, but the show went on hiatus mid beatdown.
Deltron 3030 - Virus (music video)
The professor wasn't trying to absolve the woman that you held the door for; she was trying to get you to understand what causes such encounters. However, you clearly are looking for others to rubberstamp your perspective on that encounter. That's not a luxury you deserve.
I'm truly impressed that you have been able to quote what this professor said all those many years ago in what I find a very convincing rendering of what she may have said. I'm disappointed, however, that you've not tried to understand it better. Are you aware to what extend women and people of color are subject to microaggressions throughout their lifetime, and what the effects of this may be? (Another good link.)
Are you adequate?
Something Positive
Deltron 3030 - Virus (music video)
Come on, first you're claiming that men die more often then women, then saying, "well, even if there WERE more women dying than men it would be okay because they'd be pandering to the heterosexual men?" Take one claim and stick to it, please. And you can point out exceptions to the rule all you want, but in general: heroism *does* matter. Men don't get stuffed in fridges; they die in combat against a powerful foe. If they get crippled, it only serves to launch a story in which they overcome their debilitation and win the day. Rarely, if ever, are they victims. Women are more often truly "broken" (although this trend is stronger among non-hero females, eg. relatives) What men and women are "supposed" to do has nothing to do with fridge logic.
You went further than stating we're different, you obviously stated we're stronger than women in some way shape or form, otherwise they don't need unique protection by men, especially not in a trivial situation like this one. Do tell me how I set up a strawman.
That is the side you have chosen. Look at this thread, the original troll post, which you have never even acknowledged, is a scathing attack against a woman's accomplishments. After that, it was all about you guys insisting that militant feminist are 'real', and expecting contrition from me for defending (I'll say it again for effect) a poor scarred girl caught up in a moment of fear. We all have fear sometimes, expecting perfect response under such circumstances is silly at best. I said nothing against the woman mentioned in the article, or militant feminism. Stop fucking claiming I did, cause I don't really care about either. I heard about Gail Simone months ago, and I don't read DC comics. I've nothing against women comic book writers in any case, and don't think "feminazis" have any real control over mainstream feminism.Oy vey... dude I understand your pov. However, I also think the rationale is retarted. Notice the part where I stated when I might sympathize? Like I said the only reason to have fear in that senario is if your acting completly irrationally, and again apologizing for insulting someone after an irrational action is polite. I apply this rule on every male and female. You think becuase she might've had some crappy data shoved into her head we should be kinder. I disagree and wonder why you even make such an assumption. While we're at it I'll just assume she was just a man hating bitch, and a world weary senior. Just as vaild no?.
At this point we're starting to talk in circles. Feel free to always assume that women are mentally dainty when they blow up at ya for no apparant reason, and only deserve our sympathy. My mom and closest female friend send their rational non dainty FUs for that notion btw. They have their moments of stupid like we all do, but don't expect men/women to kow tow to irrational rudeness.
So I'm an idiot for calling for understanding. Empathy for others is the most human of characteristics, however some lack it, men more often than women. In the end, I hope that your apparent lack of empathy is a function of internet abstraction and male competition (always wanting to be right), rather than the efforts of a budding psychopath. In this precise situation, yes I lack sympathy. If you've fucking read my posts a bit close I've stated when I might have empathy (same situation only it's dark, etc). But continue to assume I'm a irredemable sociopath, if it make you feel any better.That strikes me as quite an odd statement. As you pointed out yourself, such things depend hugely upon context! In China, in India, in Egypt, in Thailand etc. where white people are just another minority, I should think they do frequently consider that others are treating them differently because of race -- every day, much of the day. And most major cities of Western Europe or North America are ethnically very diverse, so that a city dweller is bound to feel like a bit of an alien at times and in places -- maybe not every day, but pretty often -- regardless of her or his race. Why should white people be any different than anyone else in this regard?
$META_SIG_JOKE
No sig for the moment.
Thanks for pointing that out, but in actuality no I don't believe movie characters are the same as the real people who play them. My opinion of the man is based on observing his inability to form a stable relationship with any of the reputed 9000 women he has been intimate with.
I was aware the GP sort of attributed Nicholson's characters' statement to the actor himself, however I responded in kind so as to enter into the spirit of the discussion rather than nitpick about terms.
Except the motor mimic girl, but the show went on hiatus mid beatdown.
That drove me nuts!
They show her watching Bruce Lee. Show her get a video iPod with all kinds of crazy stuff to study.
Then, she follows the bad guys I'm all like "Yes! Finally we get to see her go all Bruce Lee Kung Fu on those guys!"
Then, ..., nothing. She's kidnapped and held hostage like any stereo-typical female victim character.
I love Heroes, but that is hard to forgive.
-jimbo
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