Fox News / EA Spar Over Mass Effect 'Controversy'

The whacked out rantings of Kevin McCullogh have been a hot topic on games blogs in recent weeks, as his lurid description of Mass Effect prompted vitriol from actual gamers. That exchange would have been easily left behind if not for the fact that Fox News stepped into the fray, adding a measure of 'fair and balanced' to the discussion. Their 'Sexbox Sexpose' drew in veteran games journalist Geoff Keighley, who optimistically thought he'd be given the chance to set the record straight. Instead they filled the airwaves with plainly false generalizations about the game's sexual content. Kotaku is reporting that EA is fighting back, protecting BioWare's property and demanding a correction. From EA's letter to Fox: "The resulting coverage was insulting to the men and women who spent years creating a game which is acclaimed by critics for its high creative standards. As video games continue to take audiences away from television, we expect to see more TV news stories warning parents about the corrupting influence of interactive entertainment. But this represents a new level of recklessness." I hope the EA folks aren't holding their breath.

Comments

Four words.

[Optio]

Stable door. Horse. Bolted.

Faux News aren't going to back down, as the voice of "fair and balanced" coverage; and for all their vitriol, the gaming community is going to struggle with the mainstream for a fair few years yet.

Re:Four words.

[dryueh]

How about these four: Rated M for Mature

I mean, seriously.

Re:Four words.

[CowboyBob500]

How about these four: Rated M for Mature

Seriously? Here in the UK it's rated 12 (as in suitable for 12 year olds).

Bob

Re:Four words.

[moderatorrater]

You've got to give them credit for trying though. Fox News is obviously making an attempt to distort the facts, and often the threat of a lawsuit is enough to bring them in line.

On that same note, this is one of the perks that Bioware gets from being part of EA, the use of a large legal department.

Re:Four words.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, but the UK is much more relaxed about things like nudity (for example, Page 3 girls).

Rating boards like the ESRB that target the US tend to be much more restrictive. Every country has its quirks. Germany has no problem with full frontal nudity in popular magazines but they freak out on video game violence. The US tends towards the opposite extreme.

Re:Four words.

[Optio]

I think for the rating its more a difference of cultures. Bugger that common language crap, here in the UK we're generally far more permissive than folk in the US. /sweeping generalisation. My understanding is that most of US tv is heavily censored in comparison and restricted in content.

As an example, this is one of the reasons why to us the US versions of things like Coupling or the Office seem tame and frankly a bit poor by comparison because US studios arent neccessarily prepared to push the boundaries of taste.

Another example is God, The Devil and Bob, a US made cartoon that was only made for one series. US Conservatives were in uproar over the portrayal of The Man Himself and effectively took it off air after the network only showed 3 episodes in the US.

Re:Four words.

[AKAImBatman]

Bugger that common language crap, here in the UK we're generally far more permissive than folk in the US. /sweeping generalisation.

Except for Nunchuks and Ninjas. Thus the cartoon "Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles" in which Michaelangelo had a grappling hook rather than a pair of 'chuks.

Yet there are naked women in the newspaper.

It's surprising how much the taboos of cultures can vary. Something perfectly acceptable to one culture is utterly offensive to another culture. Weird, isn't it? =)

Re:Four words.

[Optio]

It's surprising how much the taboos of cultures can vary. Something perfectly acceptable to one culture is utterly offensive to another culture. Weird, isn't it? =)

I personally am perpetually mystified as to how australians love sour sauce over everything.

Re:Four words.

[Kierthos]

Dude, I live in the Deep South (but I wasn't born here... kind of like a reverse-Beverly Hillbillies thing) and there are people I work with who eat pickled pigs feet and put ketchup on their scrambled eggs. Putting sour sauce on scrambled eggs doesn't sound that much weirder.

Re:Four words.

[brouski]

It just doesn't matter to these people. In the end, all video games have been, are, and always will be, intended for children.

Re:Four words.

[MBGMorden]

I live in the South too (but I was born here). You'd be surprised. Aside from the aforementioned pickled pigs feet we also have people eating:

Tripe (cow stomach)
Chitlins (hog intestines)
Hog Head Cheese (which is NOT a cheese and IS made from hog's head)
Deer Heart
Chicken Gizzards
Pig's Tails

As well as the more tame but odd stuff such as "shrimp n' grits" or "catfish stew". Even some of our fancier places serve stuff like that. We had a vendor down a few months ago and we all went to a business lunch at a local restaurant. Nothing over the top, but a pretty nice place overall. The visiting vendor was extremely perplexed when a place with cloth napkins, fine china, and waiters in tuxes, handed her a menu with the daily special being "Neckbone and rice" :D.

Re:Four words.

[dryueh]

Yup. The store I bought the game from actually checked my ID before they let me have it (I'm 28, FYI.. and I like to *think* that I don't look like a teenager anymore).

Re:Four words.

[lansirill]

Bugger that common language crap, here in the UK we're generally far more permissive than folk in the US. /sweeping generalisation. Except for Nunchuks and Ninjas. Thus the cartoon "Teenage... There aren't any ninjas in the UK? Hot damn. I know where I'm going to start training my pirate army now!

Re:Four words.

[IamTheRealMike]

I don't know that they're trying to distort the facts. I mean, they brought in a guy who flat out told the "psychologist" that she was talking crap. I mean, he said "have you played the game" and she just laughed and said no. Then he pointed out all the things she'd said that were completely wrong.

If this were some nefarious plot to distort the truth they wouldn't have broadcast that. I think it's more likely that they're just incompetent losers who wouldn't know factual analysis from a hole in the ground. Remember, never attribute to malice what can equally be attributed to stupidity.

Re:Four words.

[mycroft822]

Well here in the States there is just as much, if not more, "nudity" and sexuality on nightly tv shows. I didn't hear a huge uproar about seeing Sarah Conner's bare ass on the Terminator series premier though... strange.

Re:Four words.

[droptone]

Not only did the psychologist not play the game, but she seemed to warp actual research to support her claims.

She claimed: Lawrence: (interrupting) Darling, I gotta go with the research. And the research says there's a new study out of the University of Maryland right now that says that boys that play video games cannot tell the difference between what they're seeing in the video game and the real world...

Notice her conclusion: "boys that play video games cannot tell the difference between what they're seeing in the video game and the real world". To those who are not familiar with what this effect may be may conclude the kids are entirely helpless to this false reality that the video games produce. This blog post also reviews this claim, but my main point is that EVEN if that supposed study showed that some people were unable to differentiate reality from video games (which is unlikely to be a widespread trend), that problem would surely dissipate with time.

Think how after playing a game like GTA, when you get in your car you may feel the urge to commit some of the acts you did in the game. I know I am guilty as charged. This is the same sort of feeling I get after watching say Boondock Saints (righteous indignation and the feeling of punishing the wicked) or any racing movie (the urge to get into a high-performance race car and go really fast).

Of course, without reading the actual study I won't make any definitive claims, but I would bet a large sum of money that the study does not have the implication that the guest psychologist is claiming it has. But she gets to come on the show, act as though she's an expert and make unjustified claims. She didn't even us the common ploy of saying "I think the study means...".

These sorts of people are one of the main reasons I do not plan to get close to studying the psychological effects of video games. When I do go into research, I'll stick to something that will be a little less easily misinterpreted.

Re:Four words.

[moderatorrater]

I agree with you. My favorite racing game is Need for Speed 3, and yet I don't crash through road signs with impunity, don't cut corners, and don't use pit maneuvers to pull cars over. Also, every effect I've felt from video games I've felt from movies, whether it's driving or an action movie.

Re:Four words.

[tcolberg]

Britain is naturally biased towards Pirates; if he had lived a few centuries later, I'm sure they would have found some way to make Francis Drake their Prime Minister.

Re:Four words.

[Anonymous Coward]

FYI I just got carded the other day, being close to your age. According to Gamestop and whatever the other place I stopped in said, it's now a felony to sell an M rated videogame to a minor? Maybe misdemeanor, dunno, but it's basically the same as the alcohol/cig laws working at a quickie mart (which I have). Regardless they said they now do it across the board to everyone, since it helps avoid comments of 'discrimination'.

Re:Four words.

[ecavalli]

And if the game had been rated by the American film or television rating system you would have seen similar results here in the States.

The reality here is that the "sex act" in question is literally a 10 second, non-interactive cutscene 90% of the way into Mass Effect that shows a blue female form from the side, a half-second of rump cleavage and even less than that of the side of the alien woman's breast.

It's easily less offensive than anything you'd see on primetime television and in many cases is much more tame.

Fox News is simply having a slow news cycle so pointing to a popular game and telling parents -- who haven't been paying much attention -- that it's filled with sodomy and penetration is an easy way to jack up the ratings.

I'd like to say that EA is defending the title based on some moral highground, but the reality is that they have to protect their investment -- they own BioWare now, y'know.

Re:Four words.

[Sobrique]

Batman Begins is a really bad film to have that feeling after...

Re:Four words.

[twistedsymphony]

So what you're saying is you'd rather companies like EA just roll over and take it as opposed to fighting back to try and break that stigma?

Re:Four words.

[brouski]

Of course I'm not saying that. I'm just diagnosing the problem.

Re:Four words.

[Creepy]

yeah, well, the ESRB initially gave Unreal Tournament 3 a low rating, then drastically revised it later. It seems they toss a dart at a board to determine rating and then revise it later if they're off - definitely not a competent group, IMO.

and FYI, yes, that is a serious screenshot from Vista, not hacked in any way - I avoided upgrading to the 1.1 patch for weeks just so I could show all my friends.

Re:Four words.

[DigitalWallaby]

Sour sauce? Not sure what that is.

If you mean tomato sauce. Sure. We do consume quite a lot of it. But, really, it's not all that different to ketchup. A slightly different taste from what I can remember.

How much ketchup do Americans use every year?

Re:Four words.

[Optio]

Sour cream, even. Particularly popular over jacket potatoes.

Re:Four words.

[Descalzo]

But do you drive faster than you would without the game?

Re:Four words.

[moderatorrater]

My dad doesn't play racing games, and he's not even into driving as a sport, so I'd say that he's a good control. My dad's driving habits and mine are very close, including the amount that we're willing to go over the speed limit in most circumstances. In the fringe circumstances, I'd say that the only reason I drive faster than my dad is because I don't have children to worry about.

So, in other words, no. I'm not even a particularly aggressive driver.

Nothing new

[Anonymous Coward]

A "new" level of recklessness? From Fox Noise Machine?

He must have not been paying attention for the last 15 years or so.

Re:Faux News

[nscheffey]

Unfortunately they are of some consequence. See 2000 and 2004.

Batshit insane

[Pojut]

In a world where commercials for soda have titties half-popping out of bras, soap commercials sensual show close-ups of women showering, and Brett Michaels slapping women's asses on VH1...they are complaining about a very tame sex scene in a game that has a story better than any movie put out in the last 30 years?

Seriously folks. I don't know who is the cause of all this trouble, but I can assure you it is the guy with the high-and-tight that back in the 60's was saying "damn hippies, with their long hair and their acid rock and their peace signs..."

Re:Batshit insane

[legoman666]

I can't agree with you more. How in the hell can Fox complain when you look at the trash that is on their network? Someone should send them a recording of some of their "reality" shows, commercials and such nad not mention that it's from their own network. Maybe they'll start denouncing themselves.

Re:Batshit insane

[192939495969798999]

That guy in the 60's saying "damn hippies" is probably dead by now, that was 39-48 years ago!

Re:Batshit insane

[TuxThePenguin2205]

I agree with most of that but "a game that has a story better than any movie put out in the last 30 years" seems like hyperbole to me. "more wordy than any script in the last 30 years" may be closer to the mark.

Re:Batshit insane

[Pojut]

Read the book that came out last year, and read through the codex entries in the game...look at all the side quests, and how different they are from each other. Look at how fleshed out your crew members become...look at the detail inherent just in the Citadel.

I like to compare Mass Effect to The Dark Crystal...sure, (mostly) everyone loves it, but hardly anyone realizes the unfathomable amount of detail and creativity that it took to create the universe and the species/people/stories that inhabit it.

Re:Batshit insane

[Mikey-San]

Fox is full of shit, but so is this:

a game that has a story better than any movie put out in the last 30 years

Any movie? How is the ventilation in the cave you've been living in for the last 30 years?

Sounds like you've watched nothing but the latest Scary Movie sequel(s) and Jerry Bruckheimer movies. Mass Effect might be a peak for gaming, but there are tons of amazing films from the last three decades that make it look pretty average in comparison.

Re:Batshit insane

[Pojut]

I am very well aware of what is out there...I have a 4-out-at-a time netflix plan, and own over 500 DVD's...trust me, I know what has come out in the last long while.

All told, FOR ME, no storyline in a movie captured my attention or made me want to know more about it quite like the story line and universe of Mass Effect. Sorry if my opinion is different from yours, but we wouldn't want to all be the same now would we?

Re:Batshit insane

[roguetrick]

Alright, I never played the game, but your telling me the story is better than ANY movie in the last 30 years? Empire Strikes Back, Pulp Fiction, Lord of the Rings, Taxi Driver, hell... Hotel Rwanda? I doubt that very much.

Re:Batshit insane

[Pojut]

I will answer your post with a cut and paste of my answer to the post above yours:

I am very well aware of what is out there...I have a 4-out-at-a time netflix plan, and own over 500 DVD's...trust me, I know what has come out in the last long while.

All told, FOR ME, no storyline in a movie captured my attention or made me want to know more about it quite like the story line and universe of Mass Effect. Sorry if my opinion is different from yours.

Re:Batshit insane

[sammy baby]

To give Mass Effect its due, its pacing and story was better than plenty of "name" flicks out there (you listening to me, Sunshine? I had such high hopes...). But to suggest that it's better than, say, There Will Be Blood... I mean, c'mon now.

Re:Batshit insane

[TuxThePenguin2205]

You seem to be confusing "lots of (back) story" with "good story". Lots of popular stories have huge amounts of back story either supplied by the original authors (LotR, Dune Series) or by fans/spinoffs (Buffyverse) this has little to do with the quality of the story. I'm with Yahtzee on Mass Effect. ;-)

Re:Batshit insane

[Pojut]

That's just it though...the Mass Effect universe as a whole is so large that any part of it could easily become it's own story.

Each of the species alone could have an entire game-length storyline dedicated to their history. Hell, the Krogan and the Rachnii by themselves could have an entire SERIES devoted to their race. Or what about the protheans? Or maybe the discovery of humanity by the rest of the galaxy? Or our discovery of them? Or what about the BUILDING of the citadel, and the origin of the keepers? Then again, you could do an entire story line about the thresher maws...a good place to start would be how the hell they appear on so many different planets that are so far away.

There is of course the shadow broker, they could do an entire story line on that. Or how about the consort, how did she become who she was? Or perhaps Benezia? How did she come under sovereign's power so easily? What caused it to happen? What went on while it was happening? What was she like prior to the indoctrination?

What I'm getting at here is that while a lot of the things I have mentioned were touched on in the game, each of them has enough creativity and life in them to be able to hold a storyline for an entire book (if not an entire series of books) individually. Nearly everything in the Mass Effect universe (much like our own) has a very long and complex history, one which could be fleshed out in countless numbers of books and video games.

Perhaps, when seeing it in that way, you can understand why the Mass Effect universe is appealing to me...it's not just some little world created for a game...it's like an entire alternate reality.

Re:Batshit insane

[Bloodoflethe]

Princess Bride!

Re:Batshit insane

[Anonymous Coward]

you're in idiot

Re:Batshit insane

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a 4-out-at-a time netflix plan, and own over 500 DVD's...trust me, I know what has come out in the last long while.

Honestly. I know this is slashdot and thereby geek central... but you need to go outside. Other people need to understand that if all you do is sit on your butt and watch movies, odds are you'll be an okay critic. But that doesn't matter because you're basically never going to make an impact on anything but a couch and a computer chair. Spend your money on a gym membership. Learn a new sport. For the love of the Cheesits that stain everything you consider clothing, get away from the monitors and TV's for a while. The real world will accept you.

Re:Batshit insane

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently all your movie watching leaves little time for READING sci-fi. Mass Effect is hackneyed compared to any decent sci-fi novel.

Re:Batshit insane

[Pojut]

No need to get a gym membership, I have a free-weight set in my basement which I use 5 days a week with a semi-strict diet plan. I can't play any sports due to injuries sustained when I was younger (torn knee ligament, minor ligament damage in BOTH wrists) and older (L3-L4 vertebrae fusion, bone spur in my left hip socket, early arthritis). Still, I do lift five times a week and do stretching and yoga seven days a week. You see, I HAVE to remain active. If I don't, my body will literally stiffen up to the point where I cannot walk. Don't talk to me about staying active. You have no idea.

Re:Batshit insane

[Pojut]

I'm a bit ashamed to admit this, but since the age of 13 I haven't really read very much. It's not that I don't enjoy it...I love it! For whatever reason, however, after about 10 minutes of reading a book I get bored. I'm not really sure why this happens...when reading, I still "see" what is happening on the page (as opposed to interpreting the words) so I know it's not an imagination problem. I used to read for at least a couple hours a day when I was younger, and there are many MANY books I want to read that are out there...for some reason, I just can't do it any more. I get bored, no matter how good the story line is.

Again, another reason why the Mass Effect universe has me so excited...I have never been bored reading up on the storyline or the backstory. I don't know what is different about it compared to other things, but for whatever reason it is able to hold my interest.

Re:Batshit insane

[jandrese]

Sure there is a lot of potential story in the universe, a well crafted universe has that. That does not necessarily mean that the story presented in the game is good.

Re:Batshit insane

[Pope]

Inconceivable!

Re:Batshit insane

[Anonymous Coward]

Your opinion is wrong.

Re:Batshit insane

[Kierthos]

You keep saying that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

Re:Batshit insane

[Pojut]

A couple of reasons why I disagree.

1. By studying the backstory, the mainstory in the game becomes more interesting because of what else you know about what is happening. An example: if you read the book that was released last year, and then played the game when it was released, when you might Anderson it was an entirely different experience...in the game, he just tells you that he and Saren had worked together. By reading the book, you know exactly what happend.

2. The main storyline in the game is a bit short...you could likely complete the storyline (without any side quests) in a matter of 12-14 hours, no problem. I think with the way that the game is broken up (i.e. I'm supposed to stop Saren, but I can spend 30 hours gameplay time if I want exploring random planets, with no mention of the main storyline in sight) makes you feel like you are getting less of the story than you actually are.

There are a few other reasons I have, but typing them out would likely prove to be useless. Keep in mind this is just my opinion.

Re:Batshit insane

[Quiet_Desperation]

How about "better than most science fiction movies in the past 30 years?"

I might agree with that one.

Re:Batshit insane

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, the game is still pretty new -- please keep the spoilers out of the discussion, okay?

Re:Batshit insane

[elrous0]

I always preferred the footage of the guy from the 50's complaining about rock and roll with the acerbic line "These kids are all dancing to that nigger bop."

Re:Batshit insane

[Pojut]

Spoilers were kept out of the discussion. There was almost nothing I mentioned that you don't learn within the first 15 minutes of the "actual" game (i.e. once you finish the opening training-type mission on Eden Prime) If you haven't played the game yet, don't worry; I didn't ruin anything for you.

Re:Batshit insane

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, I have to agree with the anonymous coward. You're an idiot. You're probably also a teenager, so we'll let it slide. Just stop posting your over-sincere drivel to Slashdot. And I suggest playing less video games and doing more...anything else. It's obviously warped your perspective and if you don't work on that soon, you won't ever be able to relate to other people, or climb out of your parent's basement. In the end, people skills are a lot more important than technical skills (or video game skills) to your future life + career.

Re:Batshit insane

[Pojut]

Right. I'm actually 23, live in a house which, contrary to your assumptions, doesn't belong to anyone in my family. I have a full time job in the QA department at a call center that pays decently with good benefits... I have a fantastic girlfriend that lives with me, and am overall extremely happy with who my friends are, what I do with my spare time, where my life is, and most importantly where it is going.

Now, tell me again...where did I screw up?

Re:Batshit insane

[IamTheRealMike]

I dunno. I'd say the story was basically average .... some fairly major plot holes .... lots of unexplained stuff happening "just becuz" and the bad guy shows up about 3/4 through to announce his entire plan for no obvious reason. Not to mention the cheesy naming. If it were a film it'd get laughed out of the cinema.

Fortunately it's not a film, it's a video game, and a highly enjoyable one at that (I just finished it this evening). And it's worth remembering that we've only seen 1/3rd of the story. It might resolve some of the things that currently look like lazy plot shortcuts.

There were two semi-original ideas I liked though. The first was the idea that entire civilisations would simply find and use advanced technology lying around the galaxy without really understanding it. The second was the whole "mass effect" itself.

Re:Batshit insane

[Anonymous Coward]

You screwed up when you replied to the troll.

Re:Batshit insane

[Pojut]

It didn't really seem like a troll to me. I'm well aware that I come accross as some immature armchair-warrior...it's not done on purpose, it's something I have never really liked too much about myself. It's just the way that I am, and I can accept that.

Re:Batshit insane

[Das Modell]

I haven't played Mass Effect yet, but it doesn't strike me as science fiction. It's a space opera like Star Wars. If you want to call Mass Effect science fiction, you have to compare it to movies like Stalker, Solaris, 2001 and Blade Runner.

Re:Batshit insane

[Anonymous Coward]

Jesus christ, you have bonitis? Get to the cryo center asap.

Re:Batshit insane

[parcel]

You keep using that word... I do not think it means what you think it means.

Re:Batshit insane

[Stanistani]

Mod me off-topic.

By and large, I have my settings configured to ignore Anonymous Cowards. It just saves me a lot of annoyance.

Your postings seem well-informed and thoughtful. Why stoop down and talk at their level?

I'm thinking of getting Mass Effect now due to your posts.

Re:Batshit insane

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, Rupert Murdoch was born in 1931, leaving him at 29 in 1960 and 76 now. One of the failures of modern medicine, then...

Wow, EA

[Applekid]

I'm generally in the camp that EA executives are full of crap, but...

As video games continue to take audiences away from television, we expect to see more TV news stories warning parents about the corrupting influence of interactive entertainment. ... I find that quote to be rather insightful. The same congressional members that make laws granting more and more power to the MAFIAA at the expense of the people are the ones demanding game companies be held to an unrealistic standard of decency in entertainment.

Recently /. had a story about how some parent's group was "outraged" that game companies are now trying to lobby congress for favor, but, as long as the TV, radio, and film conglomerates have deeper pockets and the numbers keep dropping in favor of interactive entertainment, it's not going to be enough. Faux News is showing their hand without fear since the existing career politicians are already beholden to those guys.

Re:Wow, EA

[jollyreaper]

I generally think the whole convergence thing is a load of hotair but I think that's just because the pundits called it a decade or two early. We really are seeing this now, communications and entertainment all coming down one pipe. And because of this, entertainment will drastically change, too. Are you gaming tonight, are you going to watch something? Video on demand isn't coming to us the way that was anticipated, we're seeing it via PVR (the super-vcr) and bittorrent (a product completely bypassing the cable company middleman!)and whole season DVD's. Behavior patterns and expectations are shifting now, not in the future but now. People are getting used to the fact of moving away from the primetime structure, of watching what they want when they want or doing something else if they feel like it. Back before TV, radio and movies were the kings of pop culture. Before radio, sheet music reigned supreme and families played piano, singing along. For single entertainment, books and newspapers were available.

Newspapers aren't dead and I truly think that the Internet is giving them new life and relevance, they're just not going to be quite the way we knew papers in the past. The written word is the cheapest form of information creation and distribution we have and the computer only gives it more power. We already see amateurs creating works with a worldwide following. It may not be on quite the same scale as Dickens in his day but on a smaller scale, it remains possible. I mean hell, web comics are turning a profit! That's astounding. And when you're independent and not beholden to a big stupid parent company, it doesn't take nearly as much revenue to remain in business.

Anyway, dems my thoughts.

Re:Wow, EA

[Bloodoflethe]

My favorite thing about this whole situation is that many times the middle-man *is* getting cut out. It is kind of amusing to me. Many moons ago, that was the norm - going to the source for most of your goods. Then regional and global economics became a big thing for more than just the affluent, allowing the middle man to prosper as brokers of goods and services. Thanks to the advent of the global economy, we are often able to go to the source now, with a global reach. The only middlemen that I see really profiting in the future are those that consolidate certain disposable goods and food into one place (like Wal-mart), that is, unless someone figures out how to get replicators to work, a la Star Trek. *rambles on for another 10 minutes, but deletes it all as it gets way off-topic*

Re:Wow, EA

[morari]

mean hell, web comics are turning a profit! That's astounding. And when you're independent and not beholden to a big stupid parent company, it doesn't take nearly as much revenue to remain in business. Pff! Web comics don't actually exist. Wikipedia said so.

Re:Wow, EA

[st0rmshad0w]

"It may not be on quite the same scale as Dickens in his day"

Remember also that much of what became renowned was at its time just trashy to many people, Shakespeare for instance.

I hope I never go on TV

[techpawn]

Everything is twisted for ratings and if you go on TV thinking anything else you're naive and deserve what you get. Only if I get to be like Patrice O'Neal and get to explain what a Donkey Punch and an Angry Pirate are on a news show will I feel like I've done something worth my time.

Definitions

[eldavojohn]

I once heard a much older person refer to the language of Goodfellas as "pornographic." I corrected her saying the f-word isn't referring to anything sexual--in fact those men in that movie view it as an interjection or part of speech and nothing more. She ended up winning the argument as there are two definitions for pornographic:

1. Containing an explicit depiction of sexual activity.
2. Depicting something in details, usually unnecessarily. She pointed out that it was an almost gratuitous manner in which they used curses and was probably unnecessary to tell the story. That could probably be arguable but she likened that swearing to people using the bathroom. Everyone does it but we don't see it in movies unless it's got an important plot point (see Pulp Fiction or Unforgiven).

So, to relate this to the story, if Fox News is accusing Mass Effect of 'depicting something in details, unnecessarily' then I guess the game could be described as pornographic in nature. Indeed, some of the games today have such vivid detail that is not necessarily needed for the plot ... but, a very enjoyable side effect, it makes it seem completely and utterly real. Perhaps these details are necessary then?

One thing you must admit, there might be this gradual transition that we need to draw a cut off line at. Where we used to sit and play the original NES and play 8-bit, low detail Guantlet we can now sit and play PS3 high def red warrior needs blood Gauntlet. I went from shooting pixelated nothings to full upright three dimensional beings. Where does the video game become so real that it is a rated R movie in and of itself? If the argument is to make Mass Effect accessible only to 17 & 18 year old people, then I don't see a problem with this argument. Did Fox over sensationalize what was going on and mislead the public? Yes, of course, that's their job! It sells.

I'm just sad that nobody is approaching this from a neutral point of view and actually doing some objective journalism on this topic. Perhaps objectivity is no longer possible in this debate ...

Re:Definitions

[Pojut]

If the argument is to make Mass Effect accessible only to 17 & 18 year old people, then I don't see a problem with this argument.

Mass Effect is rated M, you know...

Re:Definitions

[Yvan256]

If the argument is to make Mass Effect accessible only to 17 & 18 year old people, then I don't see a problem with this argument.

I'm 35, you insensitive clod!

Re:Definitions

[0xdeadbeef]

I'm just sad that nobody is approaching this from a neutral point of view and actually doing some objective journalism on this topic. Perhaps objectivity is no longer possible in this debate ...

Because the objective journalist recognizes this as a manufactured controversy and a boring non-story.

And if gratuitousness is pornography, then Fox News is hard-core pornography.

Before anyone else responds, recognize that the parent post is a troll. An imaginary "middle ground", whining about objectivity, and a non-sequitar about the pixel density of video games... this is called framing, and it's a setup to make you defensive.

Re:Definitions

[Anonymous Coward]

Mass Effect is rated M, you know... I did not know that, I have never played the game. Then what is the problem here?

Re:Definitions

[Jeng]

The problem is that some people can't wrap their minds around the fact that games are a means of storytelling, not just a series of puzzles.

Re:Definitions

[Anonymous Coward]

Before anyone else responds, recognize that the parent post is a troll. Remember, people who question our views are trolls. People who try to find a middle ground to an issue we're polarized on are trolls. The OP is a troll because he attempted to see the story from the eyes of those who oppose us. Mod him as such.

Re:Definitions

[bigstrat2003]

The thing is, Mass Effect is rated M, so it's already the equivalent of an R-rated movie. Personally, having played the game, I think the whole sex scene thing is much ado about nothing. You don't even see boobs, all you see is some bare skin. That's a PG-13 rated sex scene, tops, but because it's in a video game, people are getting worked up.

Really, we need to stop having this double standard, and then I'll be happy. Either be harder on movies, or easier on video games, I don't care which.

Re:Definitions

[kellyb9]

Bingo! Yes the game is rated M, and maybe rightly so. How is this different then a movie being rated R? Why aren't these assclowns out trying to get them removed from shelves? The cold, hard truth is that I see far more problems with what I see on television then what I see in video games.

Re:Definitions

[brkello]

Umm, no, you are not shooting "beings". You are still shooting "pixelated nothings". If you are unable to tell the difference from reality and something on a screen, then you shouldn't be allowed near a tv, movie, or computer.

Re:Definitions

[CFTM]

Well, as EA said, TV is losing the young folks to the internet and video games...and well it is Fox News...they don't really worry about this thing we call "Facts".

Re:Definitions

[jandrese]

I see a lot of analogies to the uproar over Comic Books in the 50s. Older people think that they're all "kids stuff" and think that nobody over 12 actually plays video games, so when they see stuff like this they assume it's sex being marketed to children, and please won't somebody think of the children?!?

Pretty soon you have censorship or worse industry self-censorship (backed up by well meaning but grossly over broad laws, like the ones that gave legal authority to the Comics Code Authority in the 50s in many communities). It's bad laws that punish people who dare to tread beyond the narrow perception of those in authority. The CCA set back the US comics industry by at least 30 years, do we want to see the same thing happen to videogames?

Re:Definitions

[Kierthos]

I fail to see the problem. The GP said 17 & 18.

17 + 18 = 35.

Re:Definitions

[Bob-taro]

Mass Effect is rated M, you know...

I honestly don't know, but are game ratings purely advisory? I mean, can a 12 yr old walk into a store by himself and buy an M-rated game? He couldn't just walk into an R rated movie.

Re:Definitions

[El_Muerte_TDS]

2. Depicting something in details, usually unnecessarily.

Wouldn't that make FOX news pornographic too?

Re:Definitions

[Atreusmonk]

In the case of games, it is purely advisory from a legal context (IANAL). However, many major (brick-and-mortar) retailers refuse to sell M-rated games to anyone under 17 or 18 years of age in the US.

Re:Definitions

[Pojut]

For the most part, yes they could just walk in and buy it. Some stores, like gamestop, have a policy in place though in which tey will not sell M-rated games to minors.

The rating system for movies is voluntary as well...there is nothing legally stopping a movie theater for letting a 12 year old buy an r-rated movie ticket and and seeing it by themselves...

The minimum age for unaccompanied patrons at R films, and all patrons at X films, was originally set at 16. By 1970 it was raised to 17 (in some areas the age may be higher still--often 18--and in rare cases as high as 21). Theater owners could still allow anyone into R-rated films without being accompanied by an adult since the rating system is technically voluntary and in most jurisdictions (excluding Massachusetts[citation needed]) does not have the force of law behind it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPAA_film_rating_system#Effects_of_ratings

Re:Definitions

[enderjsv]

Maybe he'd have trouble walking into an R-rated movie in a theater, but according to a recent study...

here

They are able to purchase an R-rated movie far more often then they are able to purchase an M-rated game. What say you now?

Re:Definitions

[Gravatron]

Actualy, Movie ratings are only advisory as well. It's just the theatre owners and rentals stores have long standing policies in place concerning attendence and purchase. Legally, they don't have do keep kids out of r-rated films. Likewise, many retailers have adopted this for M rated games, somethign I support fully. The Politicians and soccer moms ignore that though, as it's an inconviently thing to their agendas.

Re:Definitions

[Chosen Reject]

A lot of people have already mentioned that game and movie ratings are voluntary already. I'd just like to point out that so are the TV ratings. Granted, the FCC keeps the extreme stuff of the TV (for the most part), but there isn't any law keeping children from watching TV-MA rated shows.

Re:Definitions

[Anonymous Coward]

No worries. Just say that you're "seventeen and eighteen".

Re:Definitions

[Anonymous Coward]

The traditional news outlets are dying. The only way they get watchers/readers is by creating stupid sensationalist crap.

Re:Definitions

[zoips]

He said 17 & 18. 17 & 18 == 16. Giggity.

Re:Definitions

[0xdeadbeef]

Are you suggesting that we should respect every issue raised by hysterical zealots? Because that is what he is rationalizing. Think of this way - Jack Thompson on Prozac is still a calm, crazy loon.

Re:Definitions

[Anonymous Coward]

Following that logic you can call almost every movie or cable show with nudity, pornographic. Directors don't technically NEED to show nudity to indicated two people are having sex. Also, there are distinctions (legal) between Art and Pornography. I doubt a normal individual could consider this pornographic, which is how the distinction can be made. I have witnessed the scene, and it is less racy than an episode of "Hill Street Blues"

Re:Definitions

[stubear]

"She pointed out that it was an almost gratuitous manner in which they used curses and was probably unnecessary to tell the story. That could probably be arguable but she likened that swearing to people using the bathroom. Everyone does it but we don't see it in movies unless it's got an important plot point (see Pulp Fiction or Unforgiven)."

Isn't using that kind of language gratuitously helping sell the audience on the illusion that these actors are portraying real-life mobsters? Sanitizing their language makes the characters seem less believable thus making the its gratuitous nature necessary to the film's realism.

Re:Definitions

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

In the words of my 17 year old stepson, "We go to Quality 16 because they don't card."

Re:Definitions

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

A single ampersand is bitwise-and.

10001
10010
-----
10011 = 19

And 19, in hex, is, of course, 35. HOLY SHIT!

Re:Definitions

[Hoknor]

Of course the pitfall here being that if you go down the route of using the "lurid or sensationalist" definition of pornographic, Fox News is far more pornographic then any individual game they are calling pornographic. Well made RPGs are a set of diverging and converging plots, the best ones creating a series of ethical and moral decisions for the player within the scope of the game. What if you are trying to create a situation where the choice made by the player has not just game world consequences but an emotional impact on the player? More details of the results are necessary. Let's say I don't approve of inter species sexual contact, but if I let Mohan-Hoar grope me a little he will give me access to the munitions locker. I have to decide whether the no mixing policy is more important then my bigger guns are better guns policy. If the entire interaction is just a binary text choice "Do you let yourself get groped? 1.Yes 2.NO!" and then the door just opens or not, it's easier to ignore the fact that you made any choice. If you have to watch a well animated thirty second interaction between the characters, it will make a significant, indeed a necessary, difference.

Re:Definitions

[Anonymous Coward]

Err, that's bitwise-OR.

1 & 1 = 1
1 & 0 = 0
0 & 1 = 0
0 & 0 = 0

Re:Definitions

[sixsixtysix]

but he could get tickets to a pg and sneak in to the r.

Re:Definitions

[Anonymous Coward]

That's such a loose definition of the word pornographic, ignoring the cultural impact of the word. Using said definition, you could easily turn it around and use it to describe the journalism style from Fox News.

Re:Definitions

[Anonymous Coward]

10001 & 10010 = 10000

10001
10010
-----
10000 = 16

Just like the GP said.

Re:Definitions

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

Ehh, it's a symbolic error...

Oblig Boondock Saints Quote

[techpawn]

She pointed out that it was an almost gratuitous manner in which they used curses and was probably unnecessary to tell the story. That could probably be arguable but she likened that swearing to people using the bathroom. Everyone does it but we don't see it in movies unless it's got an important plot point (see Pulp Fiction or Unforgiven).

Rocco: Fucking... What the fuck. Who the fuck fucked this fucking... How did you two fucking fucks...[shouts]
Rocco: fuck!
Connor: Well, that certainly illustrates the diversity of the word.

Re:Oblig Boondock Saints Quote

[Anonymous Coward]

seriously? 5 for informative?

Reviews

[demon93]

I don't think she'll be selling many books through amazon. The reviews don't look good...

The Cult of Perfection: Making Peace with Your Inner Overachiever

Been There, Done That, Kept the Jewelry: Find True Love--Turn Your Tarnished Dating Past into a Brilliant Romantic Future

The Fixer-upper Man: Turn Mr. Maybe into Mr. Right in 5 Easy Steps

There's probably scope for a few more :-)

Re:Reviews

[C0rinthian]

The reviews appear to be erased. I was browsing through them, laughing all the way, and now Amazon states there are no customer reviews for this product. Shady.

Re:Reviews

[Anonymous Coward]

"Shady"? Come on, it's pretty obvious that the vast majority of those reviews were written people who had never even seen the book. They were just bashing the author. They deserved to be deleted.

Re:Reviews

[C0rinthian]

"Shady"? Come on, it's pretty obvious that the vast majority of those reviews were written people who had never even seen the book. They were just bashing the author. They deserved to be deleted. Just as she should apologize and retract her statements. Has that happened yet?

Re:Reviews

[Anonymous Coward]

>> Come on, it's pretty obvious that the vast majority of those reviews were written people who had never even seen the book.

You mean kind of like how she made a TV appearance about a game she'd never played or researched and had absolutely no clue about?

It's pretty obvious that she used the Mass Effect fiasco as a big attention grab for herself and her books, and they deserve to be negatively reviewed for that.

Re:Reviews

[metamorfoza]

""Shady"? Come on, it's pretty obvious that the vast majority of those reviews were written people who had never even seen the book. They were just bashing the author. They deserved to be deleted." It's pretty obvious also (after her admitting) that she didn't play any of the Mass Effect. She [her work] deserves same style review/criticisms/bashing. I call it a fair game.

Amazon Reviews

[wilgibson]

Cooper Lawrence's new book is getting slammed on Amazon for her appearance, and rightly so. The reviews section for the book is filled with people bashing her and her book.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1599211793/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

Re:Amazon Reviews

[default luser]

Holy shit, I recommend everyone read through the 400+ reviews, some of them are incredibly funny.

Sex In Video Games = Old News

[Anonymous Coward]

ZOMG! Sex Scene?!? In a video game?!?!
Golgo 13: Top Secret Episode

hair splitting

[emj]

Did Fox over sensationalize what was going on and mislead the public? Yes, of course, that's their job! It sells.

No! You can't do that, I know all news shows in the US have to compete for profit, but there have to be a limit to what you can say and still call yourself a News show. If all you do is reporting one side of the story you are not a journalist, you are just a propaganda machine. It doesn't matter if you are called Socialist Weekly or Fox News there are still standards you need to uphold.

Re:hair splitting

[Khisanth Magus]

Fox News has NEVER been held to any real standards. Their purpose is to keep the neo-conservative propaganda machine moving.

Re:hair splitting

[Perseid]

Hmm. You've never...watched FOX News have you?

Re:hair splitting

[TheGreatGraySkwid]

If this was anything like their usual coverage, Fox News probably didn't actually make any definitive statements, only asked leading questions. If you state a question in such a way that it implies certain assumptions to be true, it's the same as if you'd asserted that assumption, but it's handwaved away as just a question. "Push Polling" is essentially the same practice, and they're both fundamentally dishonest practices, but that is the mechanism they typically use to "get away" with what you're correctly asserting they should not be able to do.

Re:hair splitting

[Anonymous Coward]

In February 2003, a Florida Court of Appeals unanimously agreed with an assertion by FOX News that there is no rule against distorting or falsifying the news in the United States. http://www.projectcensored.org/publications/2005/11.html

Re:hair splitting

[grumbel]

### If all you do is reporting one side of the story you are not a journalist

The problem in this case (and certainly in a lots of others) is that there is no "other side". It was a non-story from the very beginning. The game is rated M, the sex scene is a very tiny part of a very long game and the stuff shown isn't any worse then what you can see on TV all the time and its also optional. The whole thing was completly fabricated and quite simply lie. You can't make "fair and balanced" reporting about how the sky is green when it quite clearly isn't and everybody can verify that by just looking at it. You of course can fabricate a story about it, salt it with a tiny little bit of truth to make it look "fair and balance", but that doesn't change the fact that its simply made up stuff.

It's about time

[ObiWanStevobi]

I'm not worried about the video game industry with these stories, But I am very, very sick of this same old mantra that gamers are a group of lazy perverts. It's about damned time the gaming industry stands up for it's customers, and the customers stand up for themselves. Believe it or not, a great many people still believe what they hear on cable news networks (not just Fox, btw, but they do seem to lead the pack). Anything that can be done to expose them for the liars they are is great. Journalism today is in a very sad state of affairs. I'm not sure what can be done to fix something this out of whack, but I have no doubt anyone speaking up and calling them on their bs is a good thing.

Re:It's about time

[Danse]

But I am very, very sick of this same old mantra that gamers are a group of lazy perverts. It's about damned time the gaming industry stands up for it's customers, and the customers stand up for themselves. Exactly! I am NOT lazy!

Re:It's about time

[Anonymous Coward]

And just think... WE know it's all lies because we're informed gamers. But what about everything else they "report"? I'll admit I'd probably get suckered to believe other things they report, if I don't already know about the subject.

A new type of protest developing?

[TheJerg]

It's definitely one way to make a statement on someone with a published work...

Re:more like ASS effect

[Anonymous Coward]

As "rite" as you are funny and original.

Responsibility

[Cajun_Tiger]

I've played the game through once and now going to the second time. This is much ado about nothing. The real problem here is not that the game has an intimate scene; its that parents don't accept the responsibility of being a parent. Why does Washington or some pundit have to tell us what to do?! Parents should be the ones telling their kids what they can play and what they can't play!

Re:Responsibility

[Gravatron]

Actualy, I've heard that the roundatble actualy had someone say 'Ultimately, the responsibility lies with the parents to do their jobs' to which someone replied 'Unfortunatly, that is the case'

The problem games like Mass Effect are facing is that none of these anti-game commentators have played the game, nor did they ever get over the mindset of videogame = kids toys. No one i've seen who's bashed the love scene has actualy shown they understand what it takes to get to it. You have to spend pretty much the entire game getting to know the love interest, which is far more time spent on characterazation then most books or movies require. the scene itself was very tasteful, and isn't the core focus, just the apex of one of the games many subplotlines.

Re:Responsibility

[Anonymous Coward]

Another very relevant fact that these folks conveniently ignore (or more accurately don't even know about) is that the Xbox 360 has built in parental controls that can regulate the content that will play on the system. In the event a child was able to obtain and bring home an M rated game, they should have 0 chance of playing it on the system if the parents took even 15 minutes to be the resonsible adults they are supposed to be and lock the system down.

When we are talking about a $400 system and a $60 M-Rated game that REQUIRES an adult to purchase, and the before mentioned parental controls, it is absolutely ridiculous to make the statements that this is marketed towards kids or generally inappopriate for sale in the USA. I'm not sure about the average pre-teen, but I sure as hell didn't have $500 of float money at that age to spend on things like top of the line gaming systems and HDTV's. By the time I was able to afford these luxuries, I was *gasp* an adult!

It requires HUGE lapses in responsible parenting for this game to get into a minor's hands. Furthermore, with the ease of finding actual pornography on cable television, the internet, your local 7/11, how ludicrous is it to think a kid is going to spend 30 hours of game time for the sole purpose of seeing 60 seconds of blue alien side boob???

In fact, the sex scene was rated as a PG-13 equivalent scene and had nothing to do with the M rating. The Mature rating was actually awarded for the violence as it is a shoot 'em up space cowboy adventure.

I see more arousing situations during the prime time hour on most network stations or on the front page of any easily available magazine.

This is the type of reporting that people should lose their jobs over, plain and simple. If any of us in any other industry were to perform so horribly in our daily jobs, we'd be in the unemployment line. It's time we started applying the same standards to our media and government officials.

Re:Responsibility

[mythosaz]

That's not entirely true.

Depending on how you look at it, there are four love scenes. The male character can end up with Ash or the Asari. The female character can end up with Kaiden or the Asari.

To get the love scene, you have to do two things.

(a) Finish a majority of the game.
(b) Talk to your love interest for about 2 minutes four of five times after major milestones.

To get the love scene, you need to add about 30 minutes of playtime to your game (the dialog, walking, loading, etc.)

Having seen both the "normal" love scene, and it's "not-quite-lesbian" version, I'll remind you all that it's pretty darned tame. It could be shown, uninterrupted, unedited on prime time television. Much worse is shown in COMMERCIALS for television shows.

sex appeal

[Freeside1]

Funny how a woman whose career exists only because she's hot (can't be because she's smart or talented, she isn't) is bashing a video game for using a bit of the hotness.

Re:Faux News

[Lilith's Heart-shape]

They are of no consequence in this world or the next, like a whole generation of mentally retarded puppies. The souls of Christian fundamentalists belong to Arioch in the next world, but they still cause a lot of unnecessary trouble in this world. As evidence, I offer the Mike Schmuckabee campaign. Frankly, this could have been avoided if the British Navy, or a British privateer, had sunk the Mayflower before it got across the Atlantic.

Fox NEWS is well...

[maclizard]

This news clip pissed me off something fierce, but I don't really think it will affect the consumers. The fox news audience consists of idiots and Republicans, both of which will find a new calling in November when the Dems take the whitehouse.

I have to say though, it really think something should be done about the fact that stupid people can say stupid things and the rest of us just have to accept it because they are how they are. When will the intellectuals rise?

Re:Fox NEWS is well...

[urcreepyneighbor]

This news clip pissed me off something fierce Welcome to Life.

I don't really think it will affect the consumers Oh, I'm sure it did. A handful, at most, but news stories do have an impact.

The fox news audience consists of idiots and Republicans Nice generalization there. Have any thoughts about black people?

both of which will find a new calling in November when the Dems take the whitehouse. Hm? That's silly. Limbaugh and his ilk are dying for a Democrat in the White House. Preferably Senator Clinton, but I'm sure they'll settle for Senator Obama.

I have to say though Must you?

it really think something should be done about the fact that stupid people can say stupid things and the rest of us just have to accept it because they are how they are Please, tell me you're a troll and this is a joke.

When will the intellectuals rise? Well, at least, you're smart enough to realize you aren't one. Keep waiting, though. I'm sure they'll be along shortly to force the world to think as you do and guide humanity to a golden, gilded age.

One, two, and a... zing!

Instead of bashing an entire network (which makes as much sense as bashing an entire political party - hey, you did both!), you may want to read FoxNews' Eric Burn's article Media is Biased Toward Simplicity, Sensation.

Re:Fox NEWS is well...

[maclizard]

Let me guess, your a Republican or an idiot, or both. If you have ANY faith in what the people at faux news say, then I do not hold your opinion with any regard, none, so stop bashing me because I hurt your feelings.

Re:Fox NEWS is well...

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, Fox news is really, really stupid. Much more stupid than Rush Limbaugh, who is often rhetorically clever.

I believe, actually, that Fox news is Murdoch's attempt to appeal to and control people he sees as lower class.

Hence the stupidity. My parents are hard core neoconservative-leaning imperialist Republicans, and they get that Fox news is stupid, pander to the lowest common denominator "journalism." (If not, I can make fun of the latest news about Britney Spears or David Copperfield in their presence, "Wow, that was a really important news story, I'm glad we heard about it.") I've also managed to convince my Dad that Bill O'Reilly is soft on Hillary and actually wouldn't mind if she was president (which is true).

Of course, it is still their news source of choice, because they know it is anti-liberal at least.

Re:Fox NEWS is well...

[SuiteSisterMary]

-- The fox news audience consists of idiots and Republicans Nice generalization there. Have any thoughts about black people?

What, black people can't be idiots or Republicans?

Re:Fox NEWS is well...

[AndersOSU]

Read Eric Burn's op-ed, but don't expect to learn anything, it's simple and sensationalized.

Basically, Eric whines about how Americans have gotten stupider, and how their attention span have dropped. There is no mention, not even the slightest hint that maybe, just maybe the news networks might have had a hand in this lack of interest in public affairs. He makes gratuitous use of referring to himself (the media) in the third person, and makes no apologies.

The media may be between a rock and a hard place, but hey, that's life, and I see precious few media outlets taking the high road. Maybe with the writers strike and a particularly captivating primary race FOX could put something like Meet the Press on during primetime (on FOX not FOX NEWS) before Who Wants to Strangle a Midget? and Watch Me Take a Dump in the Corner.

That would never happen because the media exec's forgone conclusions regarding the intelligence of their audience. Meanwhile, those of us who want real news will increasingly turn to the internet (which may be severely biased, but typically isn't nearly as simplified as the mainstream media) supplemented by Comedy Central for our infotainment.

Re:Fox NEWS is well...

[Toonol]

Here is your algorithm:

1) Assume you're infallible.
2) Anybody disagreeing with you must obviously be wrong.
3) Since they're obviously wrong, it reinforces your infallibility.
4) You never grow, learn, or mature.
5) Goto 1

Re:Fox NEWS is well...

[BrianGKUAC]

I'm having trouble trying to figure out who you're referring to... the GP, or Fox News?

Re:Fox NEWS is well...

[ObiWanStevobi]

Cable news outlets have been long lost to the ratings drive and sensationalism. It makes them money. Now they are just racing to to see who can be the most despicable. I don't know the last time I saw an actual reporter, not just some hack pundit at a reporters desk. They're gone. They have no credibility or repsonsibility anymore.

For a while, there were (and still are) independent bloggers doing a very good job at quality reporting. The problem is, they had very small niches. Now that people and advertisers have been rushing to blogs, the bad journalism has followed. This story is a perfect example. Not only do you have bloggers making stuff up and pretending its news, you have the cable outlets using them as sources, knowing that if the story is false, they have someone to blame. Quality reporting has been drowned out in just about every form of media by sensationalists and ratings whores.

It isn't anybodys fault but our own. We don't require truth, so we shouldn't expect to get it. What will be do, bitch on slashdot, then forget about it 3 hours later? That's the problem with this mess. No one (well not nearly enough) cares enough to turn the channel, write a letter, or make an effort to stop it.

Re:Fox NEWS is well...

[Anonymous Coward]

Not like there's a difference...

Write and complain.

[SilentBob0727]

Everyone:

If you really are pissed off about this, write to fox news and complain (yourcomments@foxnews.com). The only thing that is going to make Fox News budge is if they realize they have offended their viewing demographic sufficiently.

C'mon, people, bitching on Slashdot isn't going to change the world. Be part of the solution.

Re:Write and complain.

[discord5]

If you really are pissed off about this, write to fox news and complain (yourcomments@foxnews.com). The only thing that is going to make Fox News budge is if they realize they have offended their viewing demographic sufficiently.

I'm pretty sure that the next show on FOX will be about nerdrage now.

Re:Write and complain.

[tbannist]

Are you kidding? Writing in complaints just proves you watched their show. They're more likely to think it indicates success and continue it in the future. The only thing you can do to protest this is not watch Fox News and encourage your friends & family to not watch it. If their actual ratings go down then they'll try something different.

They've already gone to court before to defend their right to lie to their audience, mere complaints about their lies aren't going to budge them.

I Never...

[Enderandrew]

I never thought I'd say this, but kudos to EA.

Re:Faux News

[Anonymous Coward]

Fox News gets called right-wing only because it smatters the usual liberal news pap with some true reporting. There isn't a news organization as right-wing as left-wingers paint Fox as being.

Rated I for Insane

[JCSoRocks]

Clearly we need ratings on news programs so that people can sort out the crap. I mean, my 13 year old nephew could have watched that program and believed those people! Do you know how disappointed he'd have been when he rented that game, went home and played it, and found that there were not naked chicks running around? Oh man. Think of the children!

Seriously though, the fact is, all new shows exist to make a profit. Disgusting sensationalism generates profit. The target of the sensationalism varies depending upon the slant of the network but the problem is, it's all junk.

Re:more like ASS effect

[Anonymous Coward]

'Mass erect' might be more appropriate, rite?

Re:Faux News

[Bloodoflethe]

Well-trolled *cough*, I guess I'll bite: I know plenty of well-informed non-fundies that read/listen/watch content from The News Corporation, including Fox. Why, because they also read/listen/watch liberal stations. There is plenty to take seriously from each side, the effort is spent sifting through the fallacies and weighing out bias to get at the heart of the matter and from there deciding what your stance on the issue will be. Remember, the truth is more easily found when most conflict is filtered out. There are exceptions - i.e. the big issues, in which the points of view of either side perfectly cancel out. These are fundamental differences and will determine your stances on other things. *shrug* Go with what you feel comfortable with, I just try not to have a herd mentality.

What true reporting?

[Lilith's Heart-shape]

If Fox News has true reporting, they haven't been using it with this particular tempest in a teapot. Instead, they're practicing yellow journalism.

Fox News and the Word "Mass"

[Shadow Wrought]

Why do the struggle so with stories related to the word "Mass?" Mass Effect, Weapons of Mass Destruction; they'll probably distort the Catholic Church next.

Re:more like ASS effect

[Lilith's Heart-shape]

Not really. If you want good cheesecake, I suggest the Dead or Alive franchise instead.

Dear Fox News

[brkello]

You have left me only one choice. The only power I have is as a consumer that votes with my wallet. Because of this, I will be spending as much money on video games as possible this year. Tell my friends I will miss them.

Re:more like ASS effect

[Anonymous Coward]

The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.

Re:Faux News

[jandrese]

You know, most of the complaints about Fox News aren't about their conservative bias, but rather their piss poor investigation and fact checking skills. Is it any wonder that people who get their news from Fox News continuously score at the bottom of polls trying to determine how well informed the average person is? The Internet is a better source for news than Fox News, and that's just scary. I mean it is their job to report on stuff, you think the least they could do is some basic journalism.

O'Reilly Effect

[d3ac0n]

Before I begin, a disclaimer: I am a Conservative. I regularly read conservative news and blog sources, such as Newbusters, Hot Air, TownHall.com, Little Green Footballs, and the Jawa Report. I am also an avid gamer. I currently am playing mostly EVE-Online, and a bit of TA Spring. I have been gaming since before the days of Sierra's Hero Quest, and I still have an original, functional Atari game system.

So now that I've set your expectations and prejudices, I shall continue...

Honestly, I think of this as the O'Reilly effect.

One of the things I have noticed, is that ever since O'Reilly became an ascendant star on Fox News, the tone of the channel has changed a bit in regards to all things Internet. This is especially evident when Bill-O himself is on, even when he talks with fellow conservatives about the issue. Here is a link to him talking with Mary Katherine Ham about whether the Internet is a good or bad thing: http://hotair.com/archives/2008/01/23/video-mary-katharine-ham-talks-smoking-crack-with-oreilly/

As you can see, O'Reilly is as clueless as ever when it comes to all things Internet. Honestly, he makes Internet-Savvy Conservatives look bad. At least when it comes to technology, he comes off as a boorish old geezer. Honestly, I'm not sure how much of it is an act, and how much is him just being completely out of touch.

MKH, on the other hand, clearly "gets it". Of course, she's my generation (Gen-X) so it's not surprising that she would have a better grasp of this. Also, if you read through the comments at Hot Air, you can see that many of the other conservatives there think like I do, and just shake their heads with a mix of disgust and sadness at O'Reilly.

I think that his influence has been seeping into the rest of Fox News for some time. While obviously the PHB's there think that controversy like this makes for good ratings (and it does), it also serves to make the whole network look out of touch to younger viewers. I think it's a short-term gain, long-term loss kind of strategy. I guess time will tell if I'm right or not.

Either way, both myself, and many other conservatives think that the whole Mass Effect "controversy" is a compete non-starter, and entirely fabricated. As others here have said, it's a rated "M" game. The industry has marked it appropriately, and it's up to parents to make use of the tools given to them and make a judgment about whether or not to buy this game.

This is part and parcel of the conservative concept of Freedom. YOU get to control what you and your children are exposed to. It's not the Government's job to decide that. As far as the original article that spawned the controversy, I've read it, and it's utter hogwash. The writer is just a tool looking for some cheap publicity. Ignore him.

Re:O'Reilly Effect

[JebusIsLord]

I think basicall Fox News, and O'Reilly in particular, has made a business out of trolling. They know they're being misleading and inflamatory, and they depend on it for ratings.

Re:O'Reilly Effect

[Anonymous Coward]

He is a complete idiot when it comes to the internet.

Re:O'Reilly Effect

[Sobrique]

Sign me up. That sounds like an AWESOME career.

Paid Troll? Oooh, that's a job you'd just _have_ to love

Re:Definitions by Fictionary

[Anonymous Coward]

That second definition was added to Wiktionary relatively recently. Try to find it in a non-vandalizable dictionary...

Fox likes to make people mad...

[Anonymous Coward]

That gets them ratings... DUH!... Why do you think they hire people to yell at one another in all those silly and stupid 3-6 people, split screen yelling matches. NBC does the same type of thing on occassion. All news places do. Unfortunately, there's nothing that you can do about it other than shut off the tv since they have free speech. All reporters have some sort of bias, even the AP.

Fox "expert" has her book bashed on Amazon

[Anonymous Coward]

After appearing in the Fox segment pimping her book while bashing Mass Effect, it seems that her book ratings on Amazon have taken a turn for the worse...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1599211793/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top.

Fox? Get facts straight?

[oahazmatt]

Anyone expecting Fox News to have any sort of accurate information is fooling themselves. I just now looked at their website for information on this story, and at the bottom of the page saw page links for a "Free Xbox 260". These guys don't fact-check anything!

Re:Faux News

[spamking]

So what, your idea of real news is CNN or MSNBC?

"Fundamentalist Christians" aren't the only people to watch Fox News. You don't have to be a fundamentalist or a retard to want more than the liberal viewpoint on news.

CNN or MSNBC throws out a liberal viewpoint that you may agree with and that's just fine, but Fox News takes a hard and fast conservative approach on the same topic and they're suddenly faux news?

Whatever.

Back to the topic at hand . . . it's a frickin' video game. I don't see people making such a big deal out of movies and tv shows with similar themes.

It is not what it claims to be.

[Scrameustache]

Did Fox over sensationalize what was going on and mislead the public? Yes, of course, that's their job! It sells.

No! You can't do that, I know all news shows in the US have to compete for profit, but there have to be a limit to what you can say and still call yourself a News show. If all you do is reporting one side of the story you are not a journalist, you are just a propaganda machine. Now you're starting to get it.

Hey, Geoff...

[Pluvius]

You can actually fall in love in this game. It's just like modeling your life...

I'm glad you accepted the thankless, futile task of defending gaming from mouthbreathing pundits, but that really isn't helping.

Rob

Re:Hey, Geoff...

[C0rinthian]

I'm suprised he even dignified her with responses. Personally, I would have politely stated that it's obvious that the interviewer has no idea what she's talking about, and until she makes the effort to properly research the topic, an interview is a waste of everyone's time. I would have no problem discussing legitimate criticism. But baseless slander is completely unprofessional, and I refuse to debate with the willfully ignorant.

Email is cheap

[volpanic]

I don't know if getting a flood of emails really makes much of an impact - real letters are always the best for these things as they show you at least spent more than ten seconds reacting to the issue. Do both.

I also think it's important to state your age and that you're a demographic they need to pay attention to, and that this crap makes you take your money/advertising weight elsewhere. My friends are gamers, we're all mid to late 20s with no children and money to spend on entertainment, and a lot of us are women.

One of the reasons gamers get slammed so much is that reactionaries still cling to the outdated belief that all gamers are pubescent guys without no income or attention span. Easy target.

Captain Obvious

[uofitorn]

Ahoy. Thanks for your comment. Of course it is rated M, and I'm sure the GP knew that. However, we all know that it's far from unaccessible to minors. The GP only mentioned whether that's what the story may have been about.

Re:Faux News

[Anonymous Coward]

What the hell is "Liberal" about MSNBC?

Re:Faux News

[Paracelcus]

Lets put all the fundie Muslims and Christians in a big pit and let them blow each other up!

Re:Faux News

[adona1]

As I live on the other side of the world from the US, you may wish to take this with a grain of salt, but I've never noticed a liberal bias in the media (and I do watch a fair bit of US news). If anything, it's more centrist...something I notice, as I'd consider myself more liberal than middle of the road. I think the problem with the media isn't that it has a left/right bias, but that they put themselves under so much pressure to be up-to-the-minute that they'll basically air anything in order to be first, or at least not last, with the latest story, regardless of accuracy or relevance.

The whole 'liberal media' seems to be something that conservatives harp on about, without ever producing any evidence apart from their own misguided feelings of persecution. Most 'liberal' people I know tend to feel that the media has a conservative bias, so apart from those agencies who are a tad more extreme (Fox News being one) the majority probably are reporting from a central viewpoint (which isn't to say they are fair or responsible).

Eh. As a certain pundit said, reality has a well known liberal bias anyway.

Re:Faux News

[CoonAss56]

How about BBC world news? That's "real" news without any slant and it involves the whole world. Or actually check out the McNeil/Leher News Hour were you will hear both sides of the discussion.

Hypocrisy

[Rebelgecko]

I went to http://www.fox.com/ looking for an email address to send a complaint to and saw an ad for the Terminator TV show with, you guessed it, a naked woman (or robot, or whatever) who is showing way more skin than I saw when I played Mass Effect.

south park predicts it again...

[Anonymous Coward]

I can just see a raging mob chanting:

Blame Bio-ware! Blame Bio-ware!
With their games call Mass Effect, that expose our kids to sex...

I guess FNC isn't fair like The Nation

[unassimilatible]

The Nation, the National Review of the Left, was used as the primary source in the Slashdot Suppress U article yesterday. I guess fair-and-balanced only matters if it is a conservative-leaning source, not a hard left one.

The difference is, Fox might tilt right, but they do make more of an effort to give both sides than CNN does, the latter titling left and making no such effort.

Re:Faux News

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess the same thing that is so "conservative" about Fox News.

My wifes response to cooper lawrence...

[mjhacker]

My wife actually sent this email to the crazy hack...

Ms. Lawrence,

      I was delighted to see your debate on Fox recently. Though, I regret to inform you that you are completely incorrect about "Mass Effect". Coming from a mother of three wonderful kids I truly feel as though the game was severely misrepresented. I certainly would not let my youngest two(3&6) play, but I had no qualms buying if for my myself, my husband, and oldest daughter(15). In fact, my oldest daughter learned to read well at 3 as a result of video games. She is a mature, healthy, and athletic girl who enjoys soccer and pom. I feel as though the media places too much focus on video games and not enough on television and films(if they must attack something). I honestly don't believe these forms of entertainment are our enemies. Parents have become lazy and un-involved in their children's lives. I don't let any form of media do my job by raising my kids for me. The game itself has a very brief moment of nudity. My family and I never even noticed it until it became such a fuss. I love how involved my daughter gets in the storyline and makes important decisions regarding the game. This prepares her to make similar decisions in life. Also, I seriously suggest you play the entire game before you pass judgment, otherwise most intelligent people will not respect your opinions. I assure you that your research is extremely inaccurate. My kids have a thriving social life and have no skewed concept of the world, as you stated. I hate to see such a strong attack on a form of media that is purely optional. First of all, you must actually own a system and buy these games that are supposedly ruining our children's lives. I would much rather see children using their minds while reading a book or interacting with a video game than drooling in front of a TV like mindless zombies. Also, we prefer to culture our children in GOOD games...not crap like "Pretty Pony Princesses" or whatever that panelist said he bought his poor daughter.

I don't expect you to really see my point much less read this email, but thank you nonetheless.

~B. M. Hacker

And no, we don't really have kids...she was just trying to make a point.

Re:My wifes response to cooper lawrence...

[thrash242]

When it said "soccer and pom" (WTF is "pom"), I read it as "porn" at first.

lolz

How to shut these guys up

[LordZardoz]

The only way to get the idiots wh repeat this kind of crap to shut up is to start going after the advertisers. Angry letters to Fox News its self wont make much difference. All that will do is tell them that you watched it, and disagree. Going after advertisers though can get them to reconsider advertising on programs or websites that spread these views, if they get a large enough and loud enough negative response. That in turn will have a greater effect on Fox.

END COMMUNICATION

Re:Faux News

[brkello]

Compared to Fox News, yes, CNN is a lot closer to real news. I have thought about this a bit. I watch both news programs often and the difference between the two is that CNN at least tries to be journalists. They try to present both sides of a debate and if there is a slant towards being liberal, it is slight. Fox News, on the other hand, doesn't even try to have journalistic integrity. They say they are "fair and balanced"...and by that they mean that they think CNN is liberal and to balance that out they have to be as extremely conservative as possible. They care more about the entertainment than the news. The stuff they present is there to polarize people. The are putting a larger and larger rift between conservatives and liberals when there actually is a middle ground (it just happens to be left of the far far right they represent). Quite frankly, I view people like O'Reily as pure evil. They distort truth and polarize people and are really screwing up the nation. And they do this all so they can make a lot of money. Sick.

Re:Faux News

[Gizzmonic]

I know plenty of well-informed non-fundies that read/listen/watch content from The News Corporation, including Fox. Why, because they also read/listen/watch liberal stations. There is plenty to take seriously from each side, the effort is spent sifting through the fallacies and weighing out bias to get at the heart of the matter and from there deciding what your stance on the issue will be. Remember, the truth is more easily found when most conflict is filtered out

They watch both sides of the debate between Britney Spears getting into a car and what drugs were found in Heath Ledger's apartment? American cable news is for shit. Any time they hit on a relevant issue it's practically by accident, and I can't imagine that anyone that has time to watch both CNN and FOX News has a job. Their websites are a little better, but it's still 90% fluff. Try the BBC, they actually have some reporters left there. It's only about 50% fluff.

Re:Faux News

[rpillala]

Even better than playing biases against each other is finding information for yourself. I saw an interview once with Noam Chomsky where the interviewer asked him about some negative press he had received. Chomsky replied to all such questions with "I recommend that of those claims, you only believe what you can verify independently." Chomsky recognized that responding to bias with your own bias is meaningless, especially to the viewer. The two major parties (and now to some extent the press) want you to buy into a false dichotomy. The line of reasoning goes that Democrats have one version of the truth and Republicans another. The truth, therefore, must be somewhere in between. The major parties like it because it keeps attention on them, and the press likes it because it's conflict and exciting. That's why you read stories about Mitt Romney blowing up at a reporter (it was pretty tame) or Bill Clinton blowing up at a reporter (it was pretty tame.)

The problem with this is that the people who own the two major parties keep moving them closer to each other, without regard for the truth. To illustrate this, look at who is championing telecom immunity for the current administration.

statistics

[charibdis]

While any person can pull numbers out of their ... and make up statistic for studies to justify whatever they think is right. I think the most accurate statistic would be that the 1% of ignorant people always ruin it for the 99% that have common sense. Games are no worst than movies or whatever they show on television.

Fox the pimp

[PlanetSmashers]

What a pile of crap. I heard about that rogue journalist's (Cooper) fabricated slander against Mass Effect, and I wanted to archive the video footage so I went onto the Fox website. After entering "Mass Effect" in their search, along the side of the results, an advertisement caught my eye. It was an add for "mate1 intimate dating", picturing a scantily-clad (geez, I sound like Cooper) woman, and stated that I can "Meet sexy girls in North Vermilion" (here's the URL: http://crtv.mate1.com/ad/670/348649/11458/). I wonder if Cooper is listed? Now, it's not like my impression of Fox News was that great to begin with, but how can this "news" organization continue spewing out this slanderous dribble? I know if someone mispresented Fox News, they'd be the first to sue. Well, at least there's a single place I can always go to for lies, christian fundamentalism, smut, and easy women (who said anything about news?). Thank you Fox/Murdoc for your syphilitic view on life, all you need to do is sell liquor to minors and the gates of heaven will open up for you.

EA should sue the individuals making these claims

[Anonymous Coward]

im neither an EA fan or of US style ligitation but basically Kevin McCullogh and Cooper Lawrence lied out of there teeth causing damages to mass effect and EA should bankrupt them for lost sales. I suspect it would take a court 5 mins to rule in favour of EA. They should also consider going after FOX as well.For the record Mass effect was a great game and you have more sexual content in most tv sitcoms, reality shows, soaps etc.