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DoJ Extends Microsoft Oversight for Two Years

I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property writes "The US Department of Justice has extended its anti-trust oversight of Microsoft by two years. This only applies to the requirement that Microsoft make protocol documentation available to competitors, though. All of the other requirements have expired, and Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly did not give the states complaining the full five years of oversight they requested. Still, this should prove useful given that one of Microsoft's new tricks is to use OOXML extensions to tie businesses to Sharepoint."

118 comments

  1. Toothless and Pointless by ozmanjusri · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What's the point? The DoJ has achieved less real change in the past decade than the EU has achieved in past two years.

    --
    "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    1. Re:Toothless and Pointless by webmaster404 · · Score: 0, Troll

      I think this is because MS is an American company and therefore totally ethical and good for the US economy and much better then communist Linux and open-source or say the people who think that Office==word processor and Windows==operating system and don't know how a computer actually works.

      --
      There is no "disagree" moderation, and troll, flamebait and overrated are not valid substitutes
    2. Re:Toothless and Pointless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the EU has achieved real change, beyond fines and a separate packaged version of Windows that essentially no one uses?

    3. Re:Toothless and Pointless by infonography · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What's the point? The DoJ has achieved less real change in the past decade than the EU has achieved in past two years. No, the economy and a really terrible flagship product (Vista) have castrated them already. Linux in spite of it's Fanboys has really started to take root as an option.

      Remember that most of the people currently buying computers these days don't know what the black stuff on Bill Gates' Icon is about.
      --
      Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
    4. Re:Toothless and Pointless by ozmanjusri · · Score: 5, Informative
      And the EU has achieved real change, beyond fines and a separate packaged version of Windows that essentially no one uses?

      Yes.

      The Software Freedom Law Center got the protocol documents for Microsoft workgroup networking, which they were supposed to make available in 2004.

      The EU agreement also weakens Microsoft's FUD about Linux and other FOSS violating its patents. They now have to disclose patents covering its workgroup protocols so developers will be able to show their code doesn't infringe.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    5. Re:Toothless and Pointless by JohnBailey · · Score: 2, Funny

      I have baited breath. Is there anything I can do about this? Altoids don't work. Try taking the worm out of your mouth.
      --
      It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.
    6. Re:Toothless and Pointless by dhavleak · · Score: 1

      What's the point? The DoJ has achieved less real change in the past decade than the EU has achieved in past two years. I don't understand. What is the purpose of the consent decree? Is it to enable other companies to compete, or is it to reduce Microsoft's market share by any means necessary?

      The reason I ask: your statement (requesting 'real change') reminds me of what Neelie Koroes (EU judge) said when MS threw in the towel in Europe: "You can't draw a line and say exactly 50 (percent) is correct, but a significant drop in market share is what we would like to see"

      Both statements don't seem to make sense. If the EU or the US DOJ look at MS's dominance they can easily see 2 key factors to it. Proprietary file formats and proprietary protocols. It's also easy to see how this came to be -- technology generally outpaces the law, and there are no (or few) laws regarding interoperability/openness of file formats and protocols. Passing such laws (to be adhered to by all companies, not just MS) would have been a much more just solution. Having done that, if MS maintained it's market share, well, good for them. If Apple or Linux started dominating, good for them. But make sure all players are playing by the same rules. Looking at market share as a metic for fairness of competition makes no sense. That implies that the guy with the largest market share is always the most unethical competitor, the larger their share the more unethical they are, and at some (undefinable) threshold of un-ethical-ness they suddenly need to be penalized!

      I think that extends even to issues such as bundling software into the OS, and having exclusivity contracts with OEMs (for loading OSes on their machines). If its illegal for MS, it should be illegal for everybody. If it's ok for anyone, it should be ok for MS as well. I mean, looking at the way Apple is on fire these days, maybe in 10 years from now, Apple will go past say 60% of the PC market and be on its way to say 90%. At that point will the DOJ and EU come up with another set of arbitrary rules to cripple Apple until their market share falls below 50%? The EU have already gone after Apple over the iTunes/iPod lock-in and Apple just about managed to get out of that particular tight spot. Regulations governing opening of file-formats and protocols for all companies would easily cover all these issues without having to come up with arbitrary rules specific to each company. After that, if any company manages to hold on to 90% of a market, it will definitely be because they are doing a better job. But penalizing MS becuase the law was trailing waay behind technology makes no sense.

      And this is especially important for the 'bundling' issue. Exclusivity contracts are a completely run of the mill thing in business. It makes no sense that a contract that is compeltely legal/ethical/unremarkable at 10% market share becomes unethical/extortion at 90%. What's much worse -- there is no defined threshold at which this type of contract becomes illegal, and to complicate matters further, such a threshold may or may not be crossed depending on how you define the market. How on earth is a company supposed to know when a particular action, which was perfectly legal for say the last 10 years, has suddenly become illegal even if no new law was passed regarding it?

      Man.. this antitrust stuff stinks.. Bandaid in law is just as bad as bandaid in code..

    7. Re:Toothless and Pointless by SkunkPussy · · Score: 1

      I genuinely don't believe you can effective competition in a free/regulated capitalist market unless there are a large number of players. Large to me means 5-10. My belief is that economic policy and regulation should be geared around maximising the number of competitors in a give market.

      This is an issue entirely separate from monopolies abusing their supremacy in one market to gain undeserved share in another market, however the latter could not occur if the markets were regulated as described in the previous paragraph.

      --
      SURELY NOT!!!!!
    8. Re:Toothless and Pointless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bated, not baited, Does that help?

  2. I dunno... by greenguy · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I consider anyone still using Microsoft, and OOXML in particular, to be making a major oversight.

    Of course, among people I know, that's almost as many now as it ever was. *Sigh...*

    --
    What if I do the same thing, and I do get different results?
    1. Re:I dunno... by timmarhy · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Microsoft make lots of very good products, it's not fair to bag them on -everything-

      sql server is a great product, and is certainly better then everything else in the opensource world aside from postgresql (i've used both extensively) and even then sql server trumps pg in many areas. like wise with access, say what you will about it but i don't see any OSS project that's even close to it.

      many of the developer tools MS puts out are top notch as well, something OSS is still 10 years behind on - easy to use gui development, and i say that as someone who programmed in wxpython for 2 years solid on both windows and freebsd, and has since moved to a windows shop. no doubt there will be some out their who will equate this with VB programmers and the usual snobbery, but the truth is i can put together a windows apps many times faster and just as robust as anything currently out there int he linux world.

      for OSS to move forward, they need to drop the stupid ego trip and look at what MS do RIGHT, or OSS will always be the poor mans 2nd choice.

      --
      If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    2. Re:I dunno... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Fucking Redmond Fanboy... How much did Bill pay you for that post?

    3. Re:I dunno... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      I've used a lot of MS products, and I've never, ever thought that any of them were the best in their field.
      I really really hope you were paid to make that post.

    4. Re:I dunno... by GaryPatterson · · Score: 2, Informative

      I like SQL Server, and have developed extensively for it, but this statement "certainly better then everything else in the opensource" is wrong because it infers SQL Server is an open sourced product. If you're going to compare am expensive DBMS to a free one, you need to account for the free one being free to install with a $0 per user cost. SQL Server is over-used in business today, with managers buying it for small projects where it's not warranted.

      SQL Server is better for some applications than many open source DBMS's, but for some uses SQLite is far better still. It's largely down to requirements, and no DBMS is 'best' in all situations.

    5. Re:I dunno... by timmarhy · · Score: 1, Flamebait
      For a start there's no such thing as "best" there's only "most apropriate", and please post examples of whats wrong with sql server, visual studio and .net? with your vast experience please enlighten me with all the problems you've come across.

      i'd also like to point out that 2 of the top 5 sites on netcraft are windows os http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html

      what do you /. nerds alwasy say? "i'll believe it when netcraft confirms it"?

      --
      If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    6. Re:I dunno... by Shados · · Score: 2, Informative

      You do realise that for small installations and small projects, SQL Server is free, yes?

    7. Re:I dunno... by GaryPatterson · · Score: 1

      I do now!

      Well, I've only used it in businesses where some IT guy adds a cost to the project.

      Would the free licence extend to (say) a small set of 5-10 users in a business? With DTS packages, schedules, and all the nice bits?

    8. Re:I dunno... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >but the truth is i can put together a windows apps
      >many times faster and just as robust as anything
      >currently out there int he linux world.

      I'm sorry but this is just crap. You claim you've worked with wxpython for 2 years solid
      with for windows and "freebsd" and you claim MS SQL is "certainly" better everything else in the opensource world.

      I'm sorry but saying that you've worked with freebsd and you think MS SQL is certainly better
      than everything else in the opensource world just don't go together. I'm sorry I'm
      smelling troll crap.

      Here's another whiff:
      "say what you will about it ...." that's a classic troll phrase from waaayyyy back, what, 1997 I think?

      Ok, here's a thought experiment, let's just say for the sake of argument that you're right,
      that Microsoft's product(s) are waaaayyyy better than anything the OSS world can produce.
      Then answer this simple question: why then does Linux usage keep going up? Why are people using
      MySQL? Why aren't they using the "better" product? Why do you feel the need to defend the convicted
      monopolist? Don't they have enough money to care of themselves?

      --Johnny's been free since 1997.

    9. Re:I dunno... by filbranden · · Score: 4, Informative

      For OSS to move forward, they need to drop the stupid ego trip and look at what MS do RIGHT, or OSS will always be the poor mans 2nd choice.

      On the contrary.

      There are misguided FOSS attempts on going after what Microsoft is doing, but overall all they achieve is a loss of time for everyone. Why lose time replicating crappy technology? In this bag, I include, for instance, Mono and Moonlight. And, of course, the efforts on implementing MSOOXML, by Gnome, for instance. MSOOXML should be seen as a deprecated legacy format, for which only a half-assed converter should be created.

      Take Samba, for instance. It's a great piece of software! But for what? For implementing a proprietary file sharing protocol, that is so flawed that it has to be changed with every major version of Microsoft's OS, many times with incompatibilities with previous versions. I mean, of course Samba made viable the implementation of Linux on the enterprise, on Windows networks, and should be praised for that. But, overall, isn't it a waste for these very talented guys to lose all this time coding this crappy protocol, when they could in fact be putting their effort on something other than following what Microsoft is doing?

      Microsoft make lots of very good products, it's not fair to bag them on -everything-

      I don't agree. I don't know any Microsoft product that I could call "very good".

      The reason to "bag them" is not because of their products, but because of their business practics, which are not based on competing on merits, but on spreading FUD and locking in customers as much as they can. Just see ODF/MSOOXML and the OLPC/Classmate for two great examples of why Microsoft is not to be trusted.

    10. Re:I dunno... by pembo13 · · Score: 1

      Here's my list of Microsoft products that I like (and I have used _alot_ of their software)

      • Notepad
      • Calc
      • Wordpad
      • Remote Desktop
      • Control Panel
      --
      "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
    11. Re:I dunno... by Shados · · Score: 3, Informative

      Unlimited users, but its a bit limited on how much hardware and RAM you can throw at it. Also limited to 4 gigs in size. Reporting Services is in, DTS (Which, as of SQL Server 2005, has been remade from scratch into the vastly superior SSIS) is NOT in (and that makes me very, very sad, since SSIS is my favorite ETL tool).

      I'm not sure about the scheduling and stuff, but quite a bit of these features are there. The development tools for it are also free (they're part of a free version of Visual Studio). No Analysis Service and OLAP cubes either.

      It is definately not for all scenarios, but considering the ease of development, it serves a lot of purposes. I still push the open source offering when we need an enterprise-class solution and the customer's being cheap though :) Postgres has OK dev tools, and onces its hidden behind an ORM like Hibernate or LLBLGEN, it all looks the same, aside for the business intelligence bits.

    12. Re:I dunno... by Shados · · Score: 1

      http://www.microsoft.com/sql/prodinfo/features/compare-features.mspx

      There. It has the service broker, doesn't have data driven notification... One thing thats nice, is that it can deal with "on the fly" attaching of database files...so you can use SQL Server databases a bit like you'd be using MS Access databases, or (I beleive, I've never used it) SQLite. Ship the application with the database file, and it will use it like (but not quite) it was an embedded database... Thats something the full version of SQL Server does -not- do. (pretty amusing when you have a 40 thousand dollars SQL Server install and an SQL Server feature from the free version doesn't work :) )

    13. Re:I dunno... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your post can easily be turned on its head.

      If MS products were as crappy as /. would have us believe, how come they have 90% of the PC market?

      Save the monopoly response -- my point is only that Linux usage going up isn't indicative of a quality product, just the way MS's advantage isn't necessarily indicative of a quality product. Market share is a combination of good product, good marketing, mindshare, and relentless pursuit of the segments you want to be in. MS has historically had all these factors in it's favor. Linux currently has these factors going for it as well (albeit in a viral way) - that's why it's share is going up.

      But again -- MS has 90% of the PC market because they've worked the hardest to get there. That's how free markets work. The EU forcing MS to hand over their protocols and IP for ridiculously low amounts of money is bullshit and you know it. Either protocols and IP are licensed from and to everyone under the same rules, or there should be no rules at all. But having one company saddled with all these restrictions while the rest of the industry gets to do whatever it wants makes no sense. Either IP has a value or it doesn't. It can't have a value for the entire industry, and no value for one.

      Extending the point -- it makes no sense that some action is legal at x% market share but illegal at y%. Like an exclusivity contract -- say MS telling Dell "we will supply you with windows at a discount if you agree to only carry windows". Why is this legal at 10% market share but illegal at 90%? So if a company resorts to contracts of this nature to gain market share, at what point does a switch go off telling them "this just became illegal -- let's stop all these programs"?

    14. Re:I dunno... by wizardforce · · Score: 1

      40 pieces of silver
      -Judas

      --
      Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
    15. Re:I dunno... by CannonballHead · · Score: 1

      Uhhh... not every OSS "company" is in it for pure good will and peace toward mankind. For that matter, Apple isn't either.

      I don't think everything Microsoft does is ethical, by a long shot, but hey, Starbucks isn't the nicest either.

      But that doesn't really matter. A LOT of people use Microsoft Office. You can't just suddenly introduce a new OSS standard and expect someone to suddenly drop MS Office entirely and move. That's why Open Office has some success - it is somewaht compatible with MS Office files, and it works pretty well besides. Stuff like Samba HAS to exist, or it's not going to get adopted. Especially by businesses.

      Personally, Samba is one reason I CAN use Linux. If I didn't have Samba, I wouldn't be able to print at my school. [sarcasm] But I guess you're right, it's a huge waste for talented programmers to waste time making something compatible with Windows so that I can actually choose to switch to Linux without having to go to great pains to simply print a research paper. [/sarcasm]

      On the contrary: I think it's great when there are OSS alternatives to software. To all software.. including BOTH Microsoft and Apple, and whatever else... uh, Nero, AOL, [insert your favourite software maker here]

    16. Re:I dunno... by mcrbids · · Score: 1

      sql server is a great product, and is certainly better then everything else in the opensource world aside from postgresql

      I would argue with that, since it depends on your requirements for "better".

      PostgreSQL is a high-quality database. I managed millions of dollars worth of data on Postgres. It runs fast with complex queries (11-table joins with millions of records on each) when lots of RAM is available. Better, it's free, takes about 10 minutes to install when you include its download time via yum on the free CentOS Linux.

      SqlLite is the shiznit when you want an embedded SQL server. Imagine the power of SQL on a client system without having to install much of anything. The library for SqLite is so small that the icon for your software is often larger. Despite this fact, you get a quality SQL implementation with many "Enterprise" features, including foreign keys, constraints, etc.

      I have a client-based product using SqlLite - the end result is simply stunning, and performance is quite good.

      SQL Server is a non-starter for me. First off, I have to be running Windows. Secondly, I have to be managing licenses. Until you've been in the situation where licensing is a non-issue, you won't understand how much time/energy you waste on this issue. Third, why would I go for Sql Server when (free!) PostgreSQL is available?

      The fact that I could scale my software up to handling the entire United States without any license fees at all is a SERIOUS plus. (we vend software for schools using PG as a back end)

      --
      I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
    17. Re:I dunno... by timmarhy · · Score: 1
      so your saying you agree with me? because in that very sentence you quoted me on i said "better then anything ASIDE from postgresql".

      sql server has reporting services, to which postgresql has no answer, and frankly in my current position i shudder to think what OSS would have me using. i will certainly pay that managing licenses is a pain in the ass. i certainly miss that side of things when i was using freebsd/postgresql/python - definately headache free to manage. i'm not so sure about sqlite though. i used it and found it was too limited for my purposes, but that was 2 years ago now it may have improved.

      --
      If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    18. Re:I dunno... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "what do you /. nerds alwasy say?"
      Pot, meet kettle. You're difficult to take serious.

    19. Re:I dunno... by rbanffy · · Score: 1

      "Microsoft make lots of very good products, it's not fair to bag them on -everything-"

      "sql server is a great product, and is certainly better then everything else in the opensource world aside from postgresql"

      While I agree SQL Server is their best product, I don't quite agree it's better than anything open-source. There are a lot of other options besides PostgreSQL (which is great and I love it) that are as good as SQL Server that have the added bonus of not being limited to Windows and what Windows can run on (Niagara is an amazing CPU).

      Having said that, I usually joke with my friends who work for the Evil Empire (or, as we put it, "the other side of the Force") that the three best products Microsoft ever made are the Natural Keyboards, the mice and SQL Server, in that order.

    20. Re:I dunno... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +4 "Informative"? Really?

      How was that informative? This was clearly written by an anti-ms person who obviously has never even tried coding in .Net else they wouldn't be slagging off mono.
      MS ideas have to be incorporated into OSS products else people simply can't switch, Samba being the perfect example. Fine, do something better and provide a good way of migrating - I take this point on ooxml, but Mono?
      Microsoft - bad business practices,yes. Shitty products? Not always. Microsoft employ some of the best programmers in the world - which is why they are capable of bringing out a product as *good* as .Net. Linux would be lucky to have such a thing. I applaud the Mono project.
      I consider myself technology agnostic and can program in a wide variety on languages. I'm not saying .Net is the best tool for every job, but I am saying it is a useful and valuable tool. I suggest you look into something more before you put it into the "crappy technology" pile.

    21. Re:I dunno... by Toreo+asesino · · Score: 1

      I don't agree. I don't know any Microsoft product that I could call "very good".

      That's a bit harsh. Some products that spring to mind that are very good are IIS6 and SQL Server 2005. Pick an inherent flaw in either product that makes it suck compared to another. And before you jump the gun, remember neither will ever be made open-source nor "free" as such, so that'll be outside the scope of both. They were designed to be solid server products, and both have now a proven track-record in terms of security and reliability.

      At the end of the day, the best tech comes from closed and open-source camps; not solely either.

      --
      throw new NoSignatureException();
    22. Re:I dunno... by daem0n1x · · Score: 1

      Do you actually LIKE SQL Server and Access?

      I've developed with Oracle for years and then moved to a team of Microsoft drones some years ago. They loved MSSQL but I hated it with all my guts. After Oracle, developing with it was horrid. I begged to be moved away from the team but it took 2 years to years.

      I must agree developing stuff with MSVS is cool but only if you want to stay strictly in the M$ world. Microsoft did a great job to make all their tools completely incompatible with anything else.

      Before modding me flamebait, give it a better thought. I'm not trying to put down anything, this is my honest opinion. You have the right to disagree but don't have the right to censor me.

    23. Re:I dunno... by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1


      I noticed you did not compare SQL Server to Oracle....that's kind of telling isn't it. I mean it's really easy to compare a product developed by a multi-billion corporation versus a product developed by a group of developers and given away for free. Hmmm....SQL Server is a FAIR DBMS. Oracle is simply superior.

      And your *ahem* programming skills....please. Yeah that's why LAMP solutions are killing MS. I've programmed in Windows and in Unix/Linux. Microsoft programming tools are big and clunky and it takes alot of resources to do simple development work. Try writing code for Sharepoint sometime. The cost to do that work is ridiculous - can't do dev work on a client machine, you need to be in a server environment. So you need licenses for Win2003 server, SQL Server, Sharepoint Server + other Sharepoint add-ons plus Visual Studio and its' add-ons, then multiply that by the number of developers because you are not going to have all developers on one machine which means you will go to a virtualized environment and spec out a server that can handle that many people developing and do get to see the picture.

      Jack ass.

    24. Re:I dunno... by MttJocy · · Score: 1

      Sure, and the same page lists the other 3 in the top 5 as being a BSD derivative, along with every other system in the top 19 (bar one unknown) with MS having it's next entry at 22. Looking at a wider portion of the dataset shows that those particular two systems are more exceptions than rules, compared to other systems on alternative operating systems.

    25. Re:I dunno... by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      Please tell me I did not just read MySQL being held up as an example of quality OSS...

    26. Re:I dunno... by u-235-sentinel · · Score: 1

      I don't agree. I don't know any Microsoft product that I could call "very good".

      Oh I don't know. Dungeon Siege 2 was very good IMO :D

      --
      Has Comcast disconnected your Internet account? Same here. You can read about it at http://comcastissue.blogspot.com
    27. Re:I dunno... by Locutus · · Score: 1

      I will agree that on the Windows platform, there are many many GUI builders for the non-programmer and manager types. And that is a problem for the GNU/Linux. So although real programmers don't need no stinking GUI builder and are far more efficient writing apps when they know the APIs, from the outside, it looks like the "polished" tools are not there.

      What is a shame is that VX-REXX has not been open sourced and ported to GNU/Linux. Just that one tool would be enough to quite 80% of those saying no good GUI builder/app builder is available.

      Also, if there really is anything like that already available, there needs to be a champion to help bring that project into the media/press/public eye.

      Other than that, Microsoft's software had almost always been about 10 years behind tech already on the market else where. It cracks me up hearing the press bringing up multi threading in 2008 when it was a very common subject amongst OS/2 developers in the early/mid 90s. IMO.

      LoB

      --
      "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
    28. Re:I dunno... by rtechie · · Score: 1

      Take Samba, for instance. It's a great piece of software! But for what? For implementing a proprietary file sharing protocol, that is so flawed that it has to be changed with every major version of Microsoft's OS, many times with incompatibilities with previous versions. ... But, overall, isn't it a waste for these very talented guys to lose all this time coding this crappy protocol, when they could in fact be putting their effort on something other than following what Microsoft is doing? So name the better protocol. Samba is big largely because NFS sucks hard. What else is out there? Netware?

    29. Re:I dunno... by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 1
      Yeah... no. SQL Server is an exceptional DBMS, especially from a developer's perspective. Microsoft has hit a home run with .NET. Java is nice and all, but .NET is stunningly great to develop in, and SQL server ties in with developing .NET code ridiculously well. LINQ takes this to a whole new level. Also, have a read of this asshole: http://techiteasy.org/2007/06/07/sql-server-outperforms-oracle-by-a-factor-of-2/. That was 2005 (and admittedly Oracle probably has something faster now). Regardless, Oracle and 2008 are head to head.

      LAMP is nothing. Go to a real company and see what they're developing enterprise apps in, it isn't some PHP unmaintainable bullshit. The simple fact is that Microsoft has a superior development environment in every way, and that's why all their other products sell so well. You guys are really dinosaurs who have this baseless arrogance and think your "old school" development methodologies are still hot shit. I promise you they're not.

    30. Re:I dunno... by ianare · · Score: 1
      • notepad, wordpad - are you for real? Quite possibly the worst simple text editors. I suggest you try notepad++ (open source, windows only)
      • Calc - After using the calculator included with gnome, I have a deep hatred for this POS. No copy/paste, no way to see waht operations were entered, less functionality.
      • remote desktop - Not bad, though a little slow, even on Gb ethernet. I still like SSH better.
      • control panel - I actually like this one, I find it easier to use than the KDE 3.x clusterfuck of options (maybe 4 will fix this?), more organized than the gnome setup. Ubuntu tried doing something like it in early 7.10 beta (or alpha?) but decided to drop it. Shame.
  3. In other news.... by Viceroy+Potatohead · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In a rare "double-whammy" decision, the DOJ has ordered Steve Ballmer and Darl MacBride to co-produce (and star in) a feature length film entitled "2 CEOs, 1 Cup"... MacBride couldn't be reached for comment, but Ballmer was heard saying: "No problem. Bill has been preparing me for this for years".

    Seriously, though. Why does the DOJ seem so toothless when it comes to corporations or the ultra-wealthy, yet act like right-stomping psychopaths for small players (to the point of waffling on definitions of torture, or weaseling around the constitution)? How could it be anything but corruption?

    1. Re:In other news.... by webmaster404 · · Score: 1

      Because it is an American company and of course are totally ethical and obey laws just because they are not in *gasp* another country or so they think.

      --
      There is no "disagree" moderation, and troll, flamebait and overrated are not valid substitutes
    2. Re:In other news.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Shouldn't that be: "2 CEOs, 1 Chair"?

    3. Re:In other news.... by delta419 · · Score: 1

      Why does the DOJ seem so toothless when it comes to corporations or the ultra-wealthy, yet act like right-stomping psychopaths for small players (to the point of waffling on definitions of torture, or weaseling around the constitution)? How could it be anything but corruption? Since when does DOJ stand for Microsoft?
    4. Re:In other news.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps its because Microsoft isn't exactly a threat to "national security?" But maybe if they were waterboarding Paul Allen to give up secrets about Bill Gates, then that would be OK...

    5. Re:In other news.... by pclminion · · Score: 2, Funny

      In a rare "double-whammy" decision, the DOJ has ordered Steve Ballmer and Darl MacBride to co-produce (and star in) a feature length film entitled "2 CEOs, 1 Cup"...

      For some reason I imagined these two men struggling valiantly for control of an athletic cup. What is wrong with me?

    6. Re:In other news.... by Centurix · · Score: 1

      I'm inspired enough to install a second whammy bar on my Fender...

      --
      Task Mangler
    7. Re:In other news.... by inode_buddha · · Score: 1

      "What is wrong with me?"

      Nothing. Nothing at all.

      --
      C|N>K
    8. Re:In other news.... by S.O.B. · · Score: 1

      Seriously, though. Why does the DOJ seem so toothless when it comes to corporations or the ultra-wealthy, yet act like right-stomping psychopaths for small players (to the point of waffling on definitions of torture, or weaseling around the constitution)?


      Because there is a Republican president.
      --
      Some of what I say is fact, some is conjecture, the rest I'm just blowing out my ass...you guess.
  4. BS in TFA by peektwice · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The relevance of the consent decree sanctions is somewhat questionable under current market conditions. TFA gives evidence to the dominance of Google in the search arena, Apple's up-and-coming market share, and Firefox's also blossoming market share. However, what they're missing is that Microsoft still holds a heavily dominant position in the O/S market and an equally dominant market position in the office applications market. I call BS.
    It is clear to me that the sanctions are still relevant. What is not clear to me is how the consent decree is going to change anything, since TFA also states that "protocol specifications" were supposed to be released in 2003, and still haven't been fully released.
    --
    Other than this text, there is no discernible information contained in this sig.
    1. Re:BS in TFA by davidsyes · · Score: 1

      The are SOOO toothless.

      If they had any brains in those courts, they'd surely know that people (not just myself) endure the crap I am talking about in:

      http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=435574&cid=22242114

      and in my journal:

      Wednesday January 30, @02:30PM

      But, I guess they are bought off, and all the other stuff we see and hear is just posturing and smoke and mirrors.

      --
      Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
    2. Re:BS in TFA by 0racle · · Score: 1

      Microsoft still holds a heavily dominant position in the O/S market and an equally dominant market position in the office applications market
      Did it ever cross your mind that perhaps the market chose to give MS this position? Office is a very good product, there really isn't anything as good. Windows is a good OS, people know how to use it. Their Server products work well. There might be a reason people keep buying it.

      One of those reasons is because alternatives pretty much suck. I'm in the position of trying to find a Sharepoint and preferably Exchange replacement and pretty much all the alternatives I've found are halfway done, or major features are 'on the roadmap' and have been for several years.
      --
      "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
    3. Re:BS in TFA by peektwice · · Score: 1

      Dang, I wish I'd seen this yesterday, so my reply wouldn't be as stale as it's going to seem today.

      However, I must respectfully disagree on your point about Windows being "good". Good is not good enough in an enterprise environment. Windows is getting much better than it has been in the past, but it has huge amounts of cruft that have built up in it over the years. For example... how many ways are there to install software? Not even MS themselves stick to a standard in that area. Another example... why is there still support for 16 bit apps? I could go on but I won't. Other operating systems are not innocent either, so don't take that the wrong way.

      The larger point, and the one that the consent decree attempts to resolve, is that Microsoft has abused its monopoly position to continue its dominance. It's not that they have a monopoly position, or that they have better or worse products than anyone else. It's purely that they don't play fair. (Yes, I know, no corporation plays fair if it can get away with it.)

      --
      Other than this text, there is no discernible information contained in this sig.
    4. Re:BS in TFA by 0racle · · Score: 1

      how many ways are there to install software?
      Ignoring 3rd party installers, MSI's.

      why is there still support for 16 bit apps
      Because some people still need it. Are you really holding up removing backwards compatibility as a good feature?
      --
      "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
    5. Re:BS in TFA by peektwice · · Score: 1

      Ignoring 3rd party installers, MSI's.
      I have literally seen setup.exe that wrapped an MSI that wrapped a jar file that ran the installation.

      Because some people still need it. Are you really holding up removing backwards compatibility as a good feature?
      Yes. Apple did it.
      --
      Other than this text, there is no discernible information contained in this sig.
    6. Re:BS in TFA by 0racle · · Score: 1

      I have literally seen setup.exe that wrapped an MSI that wrapped a jar file that ran the installation
      From Microsoft?

      Apple did it.
      Actually, Apple did not. 68k -> PPC, PPC ran the fast majority of 68k code, as much as was possible. Classic -> OS X, PPC OS X included both a compatibility API and Classic itself. PPC -> Intel, Apple allows you to run PPC code with out any user interaction. Apple provided a transition period of 8 years to get off of classic apps. They had similarly long runs for all their other transitions.

      Solaris has binary compatibility all the way back to Solaris 7, or 8 I always get that one messed up. Giving your customers an ultimatum to upgrade or else only ever has one result, they don't upgrade.
      --
      "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
    7. Re:BS in TFA by peektwice · · Score: 1

      I'll grant you, it wasn't an installer from Microsoft. But the fact that it could even be possible is evidence of a plague. Additionally, Microsoft is guilty of similar things. Witness the dotnet installer.

      Binary compatibility to Solaris 7 or 8 is different (IMHO). Solaris 10 still has a 32 bit version, and that makes it not that far of a stretch to maintain binary compatibility, especially for user space applications. As for Apple having an 8 year transition period, even that would be acceptable, but we're talking about a 20+ year transition. Arguably, M$ has a larger install base, and it naturally takes longer to transition.

      I know this is /. and it's fun to bash M$, but so many things that they do are not based on technical merit, and they make it easy to bash them. If they used their monopoly position to advance the technology, instead of just using it to perpetuate the monopoly, I would like them a lot more. Why would they maintain compatibility for VB6.0 in VB.Net? It's a completely different architecture. Perhaps M$ should look at what Apple did, and jail this old crap in a VM-style environment.

      --
      Other than this text, there is no discernible information contained in this sig.
  5. Sharepoint leverages OOXML? by RobBebop · · Score: 3, Interesting

    one of Microsoft's new tricks is to use OOXML extensions to tie businesses to Sharepoint

    This is news to me. If this is true, it sounds like the Microsoft is making an attempt to entrench businesses with OOXML through there popular web-based collaboration software.

    A quick search on Google turns up Alfresco as a F/OSS alternative to Sharepoint. Can anybody comment on the quality and effectiveness of Alfresco, and mention if it is mature enough to be a viable (and recommendable) alternative to Sharepoint as an enterprise solution for collaboration within large businesses?

    --
    Support the 30 Hour Work Week!!!
    1. Re:Sharepoint leverages OOXML? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're losing their hold over desktop office suites (reverse engineering has gotten that good) so Microsoft are instead tying Microsoft Office to Sharepoint. Proprietary extensions are allowed in section 5 of Office Open Xml and they're allowed in section 1.5 of ODF. Microsoft have used these to extensions to extend their Office monopoly into the workplace (new features are added to proprietary extensions rather than the OOXML core). They're also dragging out OOXML so that competitors haven't implemented the standard -- they've reverse-engineered what MS Office produces, .docx.

    2. Re:Sharepoint leverages OOXML? by coredog64 · · Score: 3, Informative

      As a SharePoint geek (2003 and 2007) I'm curious about what's in the new OOXML formats that's SharePoint specific. I know I haven't
      seen anything in the documents -- hell, out of the box SharePoint doesn't even correctly index all the new OOXML formats like it does
      for the old binary ones.

      Yes, SharePoint 2007 works best with Office 2007 (DIP, better dialogs, read-only means read-only, calendar sync, etc. etc.) but I have
      yet to see _anything_ in the standard collaboration functionality* that screams "OMGWTFBBQ! Why aren't you using OOXML formats?".

      All that said, please don't let facts get in the way of anti-Microsoft rants. It's part of what makes /. so much fun.

      *I don't consider writing features that generate OOXML to be standard collaboration. Yes, it's much easier to do OOXML than, say, WordML and/or SpreadsheetML.

      P.S. As to the poster asking about Alfresco, I think the biggest hurdle there is lack of decent documentation.

    3. Re:Sharepoint leverages OOXML? by RogueOne · · Score: 1

      Totally agree with you here coredog, OOXML is a step forward and SharePoint works best with Office 2007.
      But how does is it that it "ties businesses to SharePoint"?

      OOXML opens a whole lot more doors for FOSS than the binary formats ever did, damn it's a document format that I can pick up a book and read decent documentation that describes how that format is set out, so why are so may people keen to bag it?

    4. Re:Sharepoint leverages OOXML? by 19thNervousBreakdown · · Score: 1

      I don't know that I can pick up a 6,000 page book.

      --
      <xml><I><am><so><damn>Web 2.0</damn></so></am></I></xml>
    5. Re:Sharepoint leverages OOXML? by denis-The-menace · · Score: 1

      OOXML opens a whole lot more doors for FOSS than the binary formats ever did, [...]

      That's why MS patented the fuck out of OOXML so that FOSS project couldn't touch it.

      --
      Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
    6. Re:Sharepoint leverages OOXML? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "As a SharePoint geek (2003 and 2007)..."

      As a SharePoint user, I have to point out that it's Gawd-Awful. Unquestionably the worst document management system I've ever used. Horribly clunky user interfaces, slower than molasses in January, and incompatible with anything but IE under 32-bit Windows. Who foisted this total garbage over on us? If SharePoint has anything to do with Microsoft's plan for world domination, they're hosed.

    7. Re:Sharepoint leverages OOXML? by RogueOne · · Score: 1

      No, FOSS has plenty of ability to consume and emit documents using OOXML.
      bah, why bother, you're another "anti-M$ becuase /. said they are evil" clone

  6. Incompetence? by PineHall · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Is it incompetence that caused Microsoft not to get the protocol specifications documented? If that is the case Microsoft is in big trouble. Or they are illegally going slow. Either way Microsoft should be in big trouble. I think the judge needs to wake up.

    1. Re:Incompetence? by Fireshadow · · Score: 4, Informative
      --
      "It's one thing to talk about the poetry of machines. Quite another to listen to it for yourself."
  7. oblig Ubuntu reference by PrescriptionWarning · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    *ahem* Ubuntu

    quite possibly best OS distro out there, even among the likes of commercial offerings like OSX and WinXP. Sure each has its advantages in certain areas, but as a jack of all trades ubuntu can get it all done without much fuss. What it really comes down to is application support, if you are using software that absolutely requires any one OS in exclusion of all others, then you are screwing yourself for the future (this mostly applies to businesses however)

    1. Re:oblig Ubuntu reference by timmarhy · · Score: 1
      your only screwing yourself if you don't pick the right OS for your business needs, and right now that means windows and MS for most people.

      OSS stuff is often too highly specialised to be a good investment for lots of businesses as well, they need to know they get the support down the track. yes there are vendors like red hat, but have you looked at their prices? it makes windows look cheap.

      --
      If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    2. Re:oblig Ubuntu reference by Ajehals · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It depends what you are looking at.

      Many businesses, especially small to medium businesses have very minimal IT requirements, mail, web access and general administrative tasks. If you go the windows route that basic set up is quite expensive, prone to issues, inflexible and it will probably require more in the way of maintenance than a well configured FOSS based alternative. Many businesses have huge numbers of call centre seats that in effect need a web browser and possibly a very minimal agent application, with maybe one in 20 users requiring a spreadsheet application or a word-processor (Oh and they like to hot-seat), again, it doesn't have to be complex, and again its probably a better solution to use FOSS here too.

      The truth is that for most people a non MS OS would probably do, we can both list things that are non-trivial to achieve, or possibly even impossible (running certain applications), without Windows, which is all well and good, but it is true to say that there is a large base of companies who could live without windows at all or with a mixed environment.

      I'm not saying that FOSS is only suitable for small organisations, because that is not true, there is some extremely capable stuff out there, I would certainly say that there is an awful lot that is possible using FOSS that is either impossible with Windows, or prohibitively expensive, the problem as always is the fact that most businesses are entrenched in one technology or another and would find it extremely difficult to get out of it.

      Anyway, this posted at a silly time in the morning, and I'm tired so excuse any rambling / grammatical errors or typo's.

      Cheers.

    3. Re:oblig Ubuntu reference by filbranden · · Score: 2, Informative

      your only screwing yourself if you don't pick the right OS for your business needs, and right now that means windows and MS for most people.

      Your argument is completely flawed. You start saying that you have to pick the right OS for your business needs, and then you say that for most people it is Microsoft, in a way to imply that everyone should go with Microsoft since it's good for most so it will be good for you? It doesn't make sense. You say: 1) You should pick what is good for you; 2) Most people pick this, so you should pick it too.

      The problem today is that Microsoft has a monopoly for so long that people start thinking that their way is the only way... Stop thinking like this now! Save yourself! I have news for you: the earth is round! Break out of this cage of thought. With Linux and FOSS you can provide desktops, office suites, e-mail applications, web browsers. You have management tools such as LDAP servers. It's not exactly like MS Office, MS Outlook, MS Exchange and MS AD, but it works, it's stable, people are using it, you can get support for it. As the parent said, you should "pick the right OS for your business needs", so evaluate what Linux and FOSS has to offer, and pick it if you think it may be right for you.

      yes there are vendors like red hat, but have you looked at their prices? it makes windows look cheap.

      No it doesn't. Red Hat will charge you for high-quality phone support, which means if you have issues with their software you can call them and they'll help you to fix it. It's not cheap, but if you account for all the costs of Microsoft, you'll see that Red Hat is much cheaper. With Microsoft, you have costs of licenses for the OS, licenses for the Office suite, support contract with Microsoft, subscription for anti-virus, license upgrades whenever Microsoft decides you should buy a new product (even if you don't need the new features, you'll end up having to buy it), costs of hardware more powerful to run their bloated software, and cost of administrating a Windows environment (virus and spyware, reinstalling machines, managing licenses, and so on, and so on, and so on).

      Red Hat is certainly cheaper than that. But even then, if you can't afford it, you still can choose Ubuntu or SuSE. Heck, you can even go with CentOS, which is for all purposes a clone of Red Hat without the support contract. With Linux you choose how much you want to spend, and it will fit to your budget.

    4. Re:oblig Ubuntu reference by CannonballHead · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      I've known two computer science majors out of about the ten at my school to have major problems getting Ubuntu (and Fedora for that matter) installed on their laptops. Either sound wasn't working, or wireless card, or the monitor, or in one case it wouldn't format/partition the hard drive correctly.

      Frankly, I love Linux. I took Windows XP off my laptop and am doing a VirtualBox OSE virtual machine with XP installed and can even run Sibelius 5.1 on it. No 3D support is detrimental, but I have my desktops for that. But with all that, I can't honestly entirely recommend any Linux distro flat out to everyone. Myself, I've tried SuSE, Mandrake, Fedora, and Ubuntu, and I liked SuSE best and am running 10.3. It actually supports all my hardware well, except for my video card - the ATI linux drivers for the x1400 mobile don't work well, but I got it mostly working eventually.

      All this to simply say one thing: when it comes down to application support and to ease of use, Windows has quite a lead on Linux. Yeah, you can talk about wine and virtualization all you want, but I couldn't even get iTunes to work correctly in wine (yes, I can do it virtualized, so I'm happy about that, but are we going to really expect every normal office user to learn to use a virtual machine and all that, too?). I'm NOT anti-linux, nor pro-microsoft, but from a person that likes Linux better, I have to give credit to Microsoft for XP and its Office products being pretty good in terms of usability, functionality, versatility, and compatibility. Compatibility, for me personally, is big: I mean, seriously, my laptop is a year and a half old, and the drivers for the video card (which is older still, to some extent) don't work completely? And a Dell E1505 isn't exactly an uncommon laptop.

      I think the parent to this particular thread is right - Microsoft DOES have some really good products, And yes, some really bad ones. Like Vista, IMO.

    5. Re:oblig Ubuntu reference by timmarhy · · Score: 2, Informative

      I think you missed the entire point, please reread what i said without the rabid anti-ms bias and you'll see i said 1. pick the best tool for the job and 2. most people pick MS for this reason, it's simply what they need to run their business. don't hate me because i'm right k?

      --
      If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    6. Re:oblig Ubuntu reference by jimicus · · Score: 1

      2 does not necessarily follow on from 1.

      Lots of people pick MS without really evaluating whether or not there are any alternatives which may suit them better. Furthermore, a lot of small businesses get their IT supplied by the local chap down the road who happens to know a bit about computers - and 9 times out of 10, what that means is he'll install Windows SBS because it's what he knows.

    7. Re:oblig Ubuntu reference by Macthorpe · · Score: 1

      Can you really blame Microsoft for people not taking the time to research their choices? Let's be honest, the fact that people don't bother evaluating would suggest either:-

      A) they don't know of alternatives, or
      B) they're happy with what they have right now.

      Given the rise of knowledge of Linux's existence and yet the lack of progress with gaining marketshare from Microsoft, it grows more and more likely that it's B.

      --
      "It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him." - Tolkien
    8. Re:oblig Ubuntu reference by jimicus · · Score: 1

      Of course I can't. But I wasn't.

      Smaller businesses are happy with what they have right now - probably because quite honestly, the level of functionality SBS gives you for the money is actually pretty damn good. I defy anyone to build a Linux-based solution with the same level of functionality for less cost when the cost of their time is taken into account.

      The things you'll have trouble with are:

        - Exchange - there's no Free equivalent which integrates as sweetly with Outlook and a web based client doesn't do you much good when you're on the road and reliable web access isn't guaranteed.
        - SQL server. Well, not SQL server as such, more the boring business applications which depend on it.

      Try telling a business owner who's looking for a computer system rather than a religion that they can't computerise their payroll because there isn't a free application which does a half-decent job of payroll management. Oh, and they might want to double-check the figures they send to Revenue and Customs (or whatever their local equivalent is) because the only accounting package you could find hasn't been fully localised to account for the tax legislation in this country.

    9. Re:oblig Ubuntu reference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He doesn't hate you because you're right, he hates you because you're a moron.

    10. Re:oblig Ubuntu reference by Macthorpe · · Score: 1

      Trust me, you're preaching to the choir on this one :)

      --
      "It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him." - Tolkien
    11. Re:oblig Ubuntu reference by BlackSnake112 · · Score: 1

      A lot of companies pick microsoft to work with other companies that are already on/using microsoft. have you ever tried asking a company that is paying you millions to send the files over in this format? IF you are getting paid, you usually conform to the one paying you. If you don't they have the option of going else where. You can alway go a step further by doing what they want and also give them other options. Same result different ways. It is more work, but the people paying should like it. They get exactly what they wanted, and they get to see thrt there is another way to to this that works and it costs less.

  8. No friends.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Of course, among people I know, that's almost as many now as it ever was. *Sigh...*
    Zero
  9. Thats nice and all. by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 2, Funny

    The real important question: Is microsoft any less of a monopoly due to any of these remedy's?

    --
    Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
    1. Re:Thats nice and all. by ozmanjusri · · Score: 2, Funny
      Is microsoft any less of a monopoly due to any of these remedy's?

      Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    2. Re:Thats nice and all. by rohan972 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As I understand it, the courts don't aim to make them "not a monopoly", they aim to prevent them abusing that position to prevent competition.

    3. Re:Thats nice and all. by rbanffy · · Score: 1

      "The real important question: Is microsoft any less of a monopoly due to any of these remedy's?"

      It's not illegal to be a monopoly. What's illegal is to leverage one monopoly to create another. The remedies are aimed at that.

    4. Re:Thats nice and all. by daem0n1x · · Score: 1

      According to your thought, the vaccine for tuberculosis is completely useless because some people still catch tuberculosis today. Of course Microsoft is still a monopoly, but weakening their position is a GOOD THING. You can't take down a monopoly with some magic bullet, it takes decades.

    5. Re:Thats nice and all. by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I just think the effect of the courts remedies does little to nothing to solve the problem. They aren't nearly as effective as the TB vaccine ( 80%). I think the main effect of the court action is similar to most civil court cases: little changes except the lawyer's bank accounts. I think firefox has proved that real competition has more effect than any court case.

      --
      Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
    6. Re:Thats nice and all. by Locutus · · Score: 1, Informative

      being a monopoly is not illegal but being a monopoly means having a monopoly position in a market and new rules apply. The courts not only determined Microsoft had a monopoly position in operating systems but also illegally leveraged that position to harm competition. What I found disheartening was that the courts, after Judge Jackson was removed, did not institute any kind of penalty for the illegal behavior. It'll be a decade before the courts can possibly say that the required remedies have been implemented to the courts satisfaction. Ten freak'n years!

      You want to bet there are Microsoft lawyers and exec's laughing their asses off at how easily they are able to drag out these pithy remedies. The US Federal courts were castrated by the Bush Administration when they put Ashcroft in place and he disemboweled the remedies Judge Jackson imposed.

      But I will say that the lack of penalties imposed on Microsoft has helped open source software tremendously. Had Microsoft be split into three independent business units, competition amongst proprietary software vendors large and small would have flourished. Also, the industry support behind Linux and OSS we've seen over the last 8 years would likely have been 1/10 - 1/4 of what it is now. And a larger percentage of IT budgets go only to Microsoft.com, the easier it is for the businesses and governments to see savings from moving some of that to GNU/Linux. Look at the recent news of the French police. First it was huge savings by dropping MS Office and the security afforded by moving to Firefox. Then they save more by removing the Microsoft Windows OS and are better able to leverage much much more open source software after that.

      The Bush backed US Federal courts are gutless in dealing with Microsoft and as you mentioned, think they know how to prevent Microsoft from further monopoly abuse. They've already shown they have no clue. The EU on the other hand has no problem using the stick and inflict penalties for the abuses and further penalize them for mocking the EU courts and dragging out the process. I applaud the EU justices for their handling of this. IMO.

      LoB

      --
      "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
  10. Why does the DOJ seem so toothless.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't know if the DOJ is toothless or if they are selecting the best of a bad situation. Here is the problem:
    What the DOJ would like is various American companies making competing software, each with relatively balanced marked share. This way the companies need to make products the customers want at a reasonable price. If one of the companies overprices their product they will loose market share. If one of the companies produces something the prohibits customers from doing what they want then the company will loose market share. This is all the ideal free market economy. The only hitch is they want American companies employee American works, paying American taxes, 'sponsoring' American politician, selling to the rest of the world, and leaving open doors for the CIA/NSA to spy on the rest of the worlds computers. What they have is a monopoly and rest of the world is buying or stealing it products. When the rest of the world is pressured into not stealing, they rest of the world is not just being good boys and girls and buy from the one American company, instead the world is developing their own software industry (using open source). Now the US government has decided it is better to shore up the monopoly instead of allowing the rest of the world to develop competing software industries.

  11. not that I love MS or anything by superwiz · · Score: 1, Interesting

    as a matter of fact, I would generally agree with all the claims that they strong arm the competition to win against better products in the marketplace. But, MS (and Bill Gates) in particular has been shilling for Democrats as of lately. He put Gore as his de facto choice of a successful politician in his retirement video. And he talked about the necessity to "contribute to society" by charity rather than by progress -- a traditional Democratic dogma. I don't want to argue politics per se here. I just noticed that he came out in a number of way for the Democrats. So the Republican AG (in the tradition of corruption and vindictiveness that this particular Republican administration continues openly) took a political step against MS. Anyone surprised?

    --
    Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
  12. Non responsible contractor? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How much more will it take before governments start to view Microsoft as a non-responsible contractor and stop entering into contracts with them?

    This convicted monopolist Microsoft was found by the judge in this most recent order to PURPOSELY have been foot dragging in terms of compliance with the judge's orders:

    "It is clear, at least to the court, that Microsoft is culpable for this inexcusable delay... practically speaking, Microsoft has never complied with III.E..."

    See: http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyId=13&articleId=9060099&intsrc=hm_topic

    Governments have rules that say that they are statutorily prohibited from entering into contracts with companies that lack business ethics. See for example http://www.ogs.state.ny.us/purchase/snt/overviews/SPF2005S08OscVendorResponsibility.rtf

    How the hell can governments continue to justify contracting with a company like this that repeatedly has been found to have been flouting the law? I just don't get it.

    1. Re:Non responsible contractor? by justinlee37 · · Score: 1

      This convicted monopolist

      Monopoly isn't inherently illegal, though the FTC may still split your company. Anti-competitive practices are illegal.

  13. The Geek in Fantasyland by westlake · · Score: 3, Informative
    No, the economy and a really terrible flagship product (Vista) have castrated them already. Linux in spite of it's Fanboys has really started to take root as an option.

    Microsoft has posted first and second quarterly results for fiscal year 2008 that that have been nothing less than spectacular. It is debt free, paying dividends, and holds $20 billion or so in cash.

    Interestingly, since Windows Vista became generally available one year ago, Microsoft's client business has grown more than 20% and sales of Windows Vista have now surpassed 100 million licenses. Microsoft reports record second quarter results

    If this is castration, then let's give the eunuchs their due:

    Vista is the only client OS to show significant growth in years. OS Platform Stats

    You can argue all you like about the specifics of the w3Schools stats but you are going to have a much harder time explaining away the long term trends exposed there.

    1. Re:The Geek in Fantasyland by somersault · · Score: 1

      Uh.. it's pretty easy to grow significantly from 0% when your creator uses their monopoly powers to make it the *only* Windows option in a lot of cases. Vista adoption is piss-poor compared to all the hype that has been surrounding Longhorn for the last few years (even I thought that maybe Microsoft had got their act together, but the fact that even the Microsoft pandering public doesn't like it has given me back a little of my faith in human kind). If it were a choice between XP and Vista then only the posers, and those too rich to care about their power and hardware requirements, would actually be choosing to use Vista (I was happy, secure and virus free with 98 until about 3 years ago when I finally decided that XP was patched up enough and worth upgrading to).

      --
      which is totally what she said
    2. Re:The Geek in Fantasyland by Divebus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Interestingly, since Windows Vista became generally available one year ago, Microsoft's client business has grown more than 20% and sales of Windows Vista have now surpassed 100 million licenses. Fishy math, there. Apple has jumped several percentage points in that same year, and some Major PC vendors are now shipping Linux machines in broad daylight. I know more people running Leopard than Vista and they only sold a few million of those so far. Where's the Vista? Are they counting all the machines returned to the vendor or reverted to XP? Something funny going on here.
      --

      Most of the stuff on /. won't survive first contact with facts.
    3. Re:The Geek in Fantasyland by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      Exactly, the company that I work for buys Dell workstations and Lenovo laptops. Every single one of them comes with a Vista license sticker, and we immediately image the machine with XP.

      There's a couple hundred of those licenses right there. I'm sure we're not the only Fortune 100 business doing this, either.

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      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    4. Re:The Geek in Fantasyland by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      And by "couple hundred", I only refer to what our division does. The overall enterprise has 60,000+ PCs

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      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    5. Re:The Geek in Fantasyland by infonography · · Score: 1
      In replying to you I am risking having a chair thrown at me but here goes;

      Microsoft has posted first and second quarterly results for fiscal year 2008 that that have been nothing less than spectacular. It is debt free, paying dividends, and holds $20 billion or so in cash.

      Interestingly, since Windows Vista became generally available one year ago, Microsoft's client business has grown more than 20% and sales of Windows Vista have now surpassed 100 million licenses.

      Down from $60.6 Billion in 2004, my what a profitability surge. http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/01/25/1458251

      Microsoft reports record second quarter results


      If this is castration, then let's give the eunuchs their due:

      Like Eunuchs or in the case UNIX (and the little brother Linux) the price of the OS is NOTHING. They get their income from the support systems around the OS, SUN has it's Hardware and support, Linux (all forms) has a good support and lots of sales of books by that O'Reilly dude (Technical books one NOT the idiot blowhard)

      Vista is the only client OS to show significant growth in years. OS Platform Stats

      You can argue all you like about the specifics of the w3Schools stats but you are going to have a much harder time explaining away the long term trends exposed there.

      you mean

      Windows XP is the most popular operating system. The windows family counts for nearly 90%: Funny I don't seem Vista being significant, XP is still accounts for 70%+ overall which means about 90% of Windows users are on XP. Apple ties their own shoelaces together by making their OS run mostly on their own hardware. SGI did that too, look where it got them. Sun has had the sense to invest heavily in the PC hardware market and runs nicely on commodity gear but better on SUN gear.

      you must think I am an idiot Linux zealot or did you not read my own words "Linux in spite of it's Fanboys"
      --
      Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
  14. DX10! by Bruinwar · · Score: 1

    Making DX10 Vista only really is a crime. The software I use professionally barely runs on Vista (OpenGL), so unless I want to duel boot for games, I can't enjoy the eye candy of DX10 games. The DOJ oversight? Bet they havn't a clue about MS making their 3D API Vista only.

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    SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT
    1. Re:DX10! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course it's a crime, DirectX has locked everyone into Windows, and most are too blind and stupid to care!

  15. Re:I dunno... MUST INTEROPERATE OR DIE! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    DOC, OOXML, XLS, and similar file support is a MUST in the modern world as you have to interoperate with others and that "others" all too often includes Microsoft desktops. We use Linux at home and work, but my monthly reports are sent to manglement in DOC format because that is the "corporate" desktop. I send drafts to others that are Windows only in DOC/XLS (and usually ODT) as most have their free or bootleg copies of MS Office and that is ALL they can handle. This is REALITY due to the current Monopoly!.


    I don't like it, but we MUST interoperate and that takes time, money, talent, etc. For example:

    • SAMBA enabled the creation of multi-platform, linux-based storage servers.
    • Microsoft format support by FOSS enabled those of us that like Linux to use it as our corporate/development/Internet desktop.
    • Wine enabled the porting of apps like WordPerfect, Picassa, and GoogleEarth to Linux.


    So long as the majority of desktops use Windows, EVERYONE ELSE MUST INTEROPERATE OR STAGNATE.

  16. Microsoft will be bigger in time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have a feeling this guy [Gates] won't shut up until he is either President of the United States or otherwise plugged into the political power machine. Microsoft in its present state, reminds me of a foaming, rabid dog at the end of a chain leash with the chain's peg in the ground almost up and out. I fear the beginning of a much larger, more powerful Microsoft, with Gates in government is still to come.

    IMO, Microsoft has a free ride in the US compared to the EU. With events like what happened with Corel, Microsoft, and Corel Linux, and things coming full circle with patent agreement and Xandros, what hope is there for the good guys?

  17. Relax and have some patience. by joeytmann · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think in the grand scheme of things, MS'es monopolistic practices are hardly anything to be concerned with. There is a lot more competition out there than you think. MS just has a better marketing machine to keep their motor running. While there is obvious concern on the part of the DoJ, they are doing just enough to keep the judge from getting too pissed. Usually in cases of monopolistic companies, resolutions take many years to resolve fully. The Bell phone company case took about 10 years to finalize. Standard Oil I believe was even longer, and RJ Reynolds Tobacco....not sure how long that took since it was well over a hundred years ago. So, in other words, stopy crying and complaining and have some patience.

    I said it once and I will say it again, with out MS most of us tech-geeks wouldn't have a job/hobby/whatever, and I bet there is not a lot of us that can say "I have never-ever used an MS product".

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    Insert funny smart-ass comment here.
  18. Hey now, be fair... by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

    You should have said "because we have THIS republican president."

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    Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    1. Re:Hey now, be fair... by magus_melchior · · Score: 1

      It might be even better to say "it's because of this administration." Bush may make the big talk and misuse his veto pen, but it really looks like Cheney and Addington call the shots in the executive branch (though I bet Addington is royally pissed at the current AG).

      --
      "We are Microsoft. You shall be assimilated. Competition is futile."
  19. Translated by DeanFox · · Score: 1


    Translated:

    The DOJ is going to sit back and watch Micro$oft ignore their rulings, expand the monopoly and break laws for yet another two more years.

    I'm inspired.

  20. It's the OOXML extensions. by Xenographic · · Score: 1

    The OOXML extensions for SharePoint aren't in the OOXML standard submitted to the ISO per my understanding, so it feels like we're at "extend" now and "extinguish" comes later.

    At least, that's my take on it.

  21. park place + boardwalk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You gotta pay for two more laps.

  22. OP Got it wrong by aviators99 · · Score: 1

    >This only applies to the requirement that Microsoft make protocol documentation available to competitors, though.
    >All of the other requirements have expired [SNIP]

    Quite the contrary. The protocol documentation requirements were already extended. She ordered that the rest of the requirements *NOT* expire.

  23. The summary misses the news of the day by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The US DOJ did not ask the Judge in this case to extend the portions of the FJ which were expiring, so they expired. The DOJ already had extended oversight regarding the protocol licensing and documentation for two additional years, and that is still in effect.

    The news is that the other Plaintiffs (the "States") petition to extend the expiring portions was granted, so that for at least the next two years oversight continues in full force. And the Judge indicated that she will look again at the situation again in two years, and that she has the right to extend the Judgment again, if appropriate.

  24. Re:I dunno... (gui development on OSS) by vdboor · · Score: 1

    many of the developer tools MS puts out are top notch as well, something OSS is still 10 years behind on - easy to use gui development, and i say that as someone who programmed in wxpython for 2 years solid on both windows and freebsd, and has since moved to a windows shop. no doubt there will be some out their who will equate this with VB programmers and the usual snobbery, but the truth is i can put together a windows apps many times faster and just as robust as anything currently out there int he linux world.

    Agreed, Microsoft makes good development tools. And a powerful GUI designer helps if you need to create some dialogs fast.

    I think you missed some OSS solutions though, judging from your wx reference. Take a look at this Qt demo video (yay, no reading!), and compare it with the VS.Net solutions. There is a reason KDE has so many apps, Qt makes it possible to develop applications just as fast and customers drool over the API's. ;-)

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    The best way to accelerate a windows server is by 9.81 m/s2 ;-)
  25. The judge, not the DOJ by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

    > The US Department of Justice has extended its anti-trust oversight of Microsoft by two
    > years.

    No they didn't. US Federal District Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly did.

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