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Bruce Schneier Weighs in on IT Lock-in Strategies

dhavleak writes "Wired has an article from Bruce Schneier on the intersection of security technologies and vendor lock-ins in IT. 'With enough lock-in, a company can protect its market share even as it reduces customer service, raises prices, refuses to innovate and otherwise abuses its customer base. It should be no surprise that this sounds like pretty much every experience you've had with IT companies: Once the industry discovered lock-in, everyone started figuring out how to get as much of it as they can.'"

186 comments

  1. As in... by djupedal · · Score: 0

    lock-in = subscription based business model...for those that don't know :)

    1. Re:As in... by trolltalk.com · · Score: 4, Informative

      lock-in = subscription based business model...for those that don't know :)

      Nope.

      Lock-in is anything that creates barriers to moving to a competitor. For example, file formats. Or email address non-portability between different ISPs (or freemail providers, for that matter). Or (in the case of telecoms) number non-portability.The subscription model is one of the ways to milk extra bucks from lock-in, but it isn't itself a "lock-in."

    2. Re:As in... by somersault · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Or having to buy a bank of hours for your outsourcing partner, as we do :/ d'oh!

      --
      which is totally what she said
    3. Re:As in... by Sciros · · Score: 4, Informative

      That's completely wrong! A lock-in is when the consumer is "stuck" with a particular vendor. This may be due to any number of things, but subscription is not one of them. A subscription-based service only locks you in if it makes unsubscribing difficult (which may translate to costly), which has nothing to do with being a subscription-based service in the first place.

      A company that runs on a subscription-based business model would *benefit* from lock-in (to keep subscriptions going), but it doesn't have to do it. Magazines don't lock you in, neither do websites with subscription-based access (e.g. IGN, or newspapers), etc. You're always free to cancel and subcribe to something else if you wish.

      --
      I like basketball!!1!
    4. Re:As in... by swb · · Score: 1

      I would think that it would be possible to work within subscription models almost more flexibly than non-subscription models since you don't have any ownership interest. Of course the devil is in the details.

    5. Re:As in... by djupedal · · Score: 1

      So the small company in Malaysia that hires a consulting company in Singapore to set up a CRM, and then has to subscribe to service if it wants anything fixed or changed isn't locked into a never-ending relationship if it doesn't want to start over with another vendor or DIY...right.

    6. Re:As in... by misleb · · Score: 3, Informative

      Or email address non-portability between different ISPs (or freemail providers, for that matter).


      This being an unintentional form a lock-in, of course. You wouldn't actually expect an email address to be portable, would you?

      -matthew
      --
      "THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS ONLY ME." -Death
    7. Re:As in... by esper · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You haven't provided enough information to determine whether that's a case of lock-in or not. If the CRM system provides the necessary tools to make it easy for the customer to export all of their data into a format which can then be imported by other CRM systems should the customer choose to change vendors, then there is no lock-in.

      Now, granted, that's unlikely to be the case. However, it is the inability to move your data to a competing system which creates the lock-in. The subscription aspect has nothing to do with it one way or the other.

    8. Re:As in... by suckmysav · · Score: 1

      erm, the fact that you contracted a "small malaysian company" (which I assume produced custom, proprietary, non-open software for you) is the reason you are locked in. It is this lockin that makes it necessary for you to pay them (and only them) for a "support subscription" post purchase.

      The subscription does not create the lockin, it is the end result of the lockin. If you bought an open standards based (or even widely deployed proprietary off-the-shelf) solution then you would have no lockin problem and you could then subscribe to the support service from whatever vendor you choose to.

      Good grief, it's not rocket science you know.

      --
      "You can't fight in here, this is the war room!"
    9. Re:As in... by misleb · · Score: 1

      So the small company in Malaysia that hires a consulting company in Singapore to set up a CRM, and then has to subscribe to service if it wants anything fixed or changed isn't locked into a never-ending relationship if it doesn't want to start over with another vendor or DIY...right.


      You'd be locked into a relationship with the vendor regardless of whether or not you were paying for a subscription simply bacause a CRM system costs so much to develop. The subscription has nothing to do with the lock in.

      -matthew
      --
      "THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS ONLY ME." -Death
    10. Re:As in... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1, Insightful

      "Lock-in" = one more way that companies that are successful in a "free market" immediately go to work to make the market less free.

      One more reason that Free-Market Theology is nothing but a scam to keep most people poor and working hard, and to make rich people richer and increasingly powerful and protected.

        The operative word is "protected". Note that "lock-ins" are said to "protect market share". The world is uncertain and nothing bothers the rich and powerful like uncertainty. They believe that if God was good enough to make them rich and powerful, then it's unfair that they should be subject to the same rules of uncertainty as the rest of us.

        It's why they hate things like Universal Health Coverage, Social Security, Minimum Wage, etc. If you have to be just as vulnerable to fate as the poor, then what good is being rich?

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    11. Re:As in... by trolltalk.com · · Score: 1

      Or email address non-portability between different ISPs (or freemail providers, for that matter).
      This being an unintentional form a lock-in, of course. You wouldn't actually expect an email address to be portable, would you?

      You and I wouldn't, but that doesn't mean much (sigh). How many people do you know who won't change ISPs because they can't "bring their email address with them" if they change?

      It's also one of the reasons Yahoo! is worth so much to Microsoft - a lot of people who are using their email won't bother to move, because of inertia and lock-in.

      I don't understand why most people don't get together with friends and family and each pitch in a few bucks each year and have their own domain, with their own email address.

    12. Re:As in... by Tom · · Score: 1

      Or email address non-portability between different ISPs I disagree on that.

      Different from phone numbers, e-mail addresses aren't arbitrary. The domain part is by design tied to a particular service, server, whatever.

      Portability for phone numbers makes sense, because they are just arbitrary numbers and AT&T can give you 12345 just as well as any other provider.

      But portability for e-mail addresses makes as much sense as portability of your street address when you move. The best you can ask for is forwarding.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    13. Re:As in... by anonicon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "I don't understand why most people don't get together with friends and family and each pitch in a few bucks each year and have their own domain, with their own email address."

      Comfort zones and insecurity. Speaking as the "computer guy" for about 15-20 friends and family members, the idea of registering a domain name and then paying a very small monthly fee (less than $5, sometimes $0) to permanently own your own domain name and e-mail is uncomfortable when they can just keep their free 5-10 year old AOL/LocalISP address. Only my Mom owns her own domain name (which she really likes).

      Chuck

    14. Re:As in... by phantomcircuit · · Score: 1

      I believe that phone numbers were assigned much like IP addresses are, in blocks. The routing would obviously be significantly easier if the numbers are sold in blocks.

    15. Re:As in... by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      There are perfectly good reasons to hate universal health care and Social Security apart from supposed hatred of poor people. Not all of us trust the government to be a good provider, and want the ability to opt out of a bad system. Social Security is an even better example. If I believe that Social Security is going to collapse before I can benefit (I have no opinion on the matter, for the record, as I lack sufficient information), why the hell would I want pay into such a thing?

      Not everyone who wants a free market is doing it for the evil reasons you paint, and not everyone who doesn't want the programs you mention is a greedy bastard who wants to be better than poor people.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    16. Re:As in... by djupedal · · Score: 0, Troll

      ....what kind of response involves getting the example backwards...? Thanks for taking a run at me, but I'll give you a do-over if you want to try again.

      "If you..." - If..... If a dwarf died and left you a million dollars and the sub cost $100,000.00 you'd... If you had to choose between jumping out of an airplane with your hair on fire and no parachute or renewing your sub... If you died the day before your sub expired... Weak :)

    17. Re:As in... by electr01nik · · Score: 1

      Comfort zones and insecurity. Speaking as the "computer guy" for about 15-20 friends and family members, the idea of registering a domain name and then paying a very small monthly fee (less than $5, sometimes $0) to permanently own your own domain name and e-mail is uncomfortable when they can just keep their free 5-10 year old AOL/LocalISP address. Only my Mom owns her own domain name (which she really likes).

      My DSL provider is having problems with the SMTP server today, so my parents are unable to send e-mail on their main account. After explaining to them that the address was on their old (dialup) ISP, they were forced to use the DSL SMTP server to send e-mail(because of port 25 blocking).

      They weren't happy when they realized they've been paying $10 a month for an e-mail address for the past 18 months.

    18. Re:As in... by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "...what kind of response involves getting the example backwards...?"

      One based on negating your assertion and see what happens since, in order for a biunivocal relationship to be if A->B, then !A->!B.

      All in all it's very obvious that in your example the vendor is able to drain money from the client in the form of a service subscription *because* the vendor successfully has locked-in the client, the contrary being plain absurd: you don't undesiringly pay money to enter a lock-in situation, you undesiringly pay money because you are locked-in.

    19. Re:As in... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I believe that Social Security is going to collapse before I can benefit (I have no opinion on the matter, for the record, as I lack sufficient information), why the hell would I want pay into such a thing?

      For the same reason you pay for car insurance even though the odds may be quite low that you'll ever need it. Social Security isn't retirement, it's insurance.

      Many people who put lots of money into their actual retirement funds (401K, IRA, etc.) don't live long enough to benefit from it. Are they stupid?

    20. Re:As in... by glitch23 · · Score: 0

      If I believe that Social Security is going to collapse before I can benefit (I have no opinion on the matter, for the record, as I lack sufficient information), why the hell would I want pay into such a thing?

      It is more like socialized security. Everyone pays into it for someone else's benefit. You pay enough times and eventually you may benefit but you won't get as much out of it as you put in. It is much like the Powerball lottery.

      --
      this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. -- Lincoln, Gettysburg Address
    21. Re:As in... by graft · · Score: 1

      .forward, at least?

    22. Re:As in... by naoursla · · Score: 1

      Warrent Buffet calls it a moat.

      http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/05/economicmoat.asp

      And subscriptions often result in the opposite of lock-in.

      For example, if you were able to buy a Zune music subscription there is nothing preventing you from switching to another service. However, if you buy a bunch of songs on iTunes then you lose the ability to play them should you switch from iPod to Zune. Apple gets to charge a premium on iPods partly because of this fact (the fact that they are beautifully designed also helps). Buyng songs on iTunes locks you into Apple. Subscribing to the Zune service does not lock you into Zune.

      In fact, if someone else offers a slightly less expensive equivalent service it is really easy to switch subscriptions.

      Of course the music companies would not license at a rate that allows a slightly less expensive service.

    23. Re:As in... by Kadin2048 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Portability for phone numbers makes sense, because they are just arbitrary numbers and AT&T can give you 12345 just as well as any other provider. They can now. This is a relatively recent development. The old rotary-pulse dial switching system didn't allow for such things, and although numbers might have appeared arbitrary to the customer, they were anything but to the phone company. Individual phone lines (last four digits, in our current numbering scheme) were connected to exchanges (first three digits of the 'phone number,' but in the past these were lettered or had other designations, like city or town), and if you moved from one exchange to another, your number changed. The phone number actually drove the routing equipment -- you couldn't just give someone a random 7 or 10 digit number and make it work. (Similar to how IP routing worked under classful networks.)

      Over time, telephone call routing got more flexible. I'm not familiar with exactly how it works today, but there is obviously another layer, probably many layers, beneath the "phone number" you use and remember. That has been abstracted away from the actual 'hardware' and can be assigned arbitrarily.

      Email addresses are currently hierarchical, in the same way that phone numbers used to be (under exchanges). If you want to send it to bob@company.com, you first send it to the mailserver for "company.com" and then it sends it on to Bob. But that's sort of an arbitrary design consideration. If you wanted to have a different MX record for "bob@company.com" than "joe@company.com", there's no fundamental reason why you couldn't, provided you were willing to completely trash and rewrite the DNS servers and MTAs.

      More usefully, rather than screwing around with DNS, the best way to accomplish email portability would be to build another layer of abstraction on top of email as it currently exists. Instead of remembering people's emails, remember their real names or handles, and then have your email program consult some sort of global distributed database in order to find their email address (which would change whenever they moved ISPs or networks). Then you could change emails whenever you wanted and the people sending you mail would never know; it would all be hidden below the user level. And in fact there are some electronic-mail systems (e.g. Lotus Notes) that don't operate using user and domain names, and have their own systems allowing for more flexibility.
      --
      "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    24. Re:As in... by kylehase · · Score: 1

      Or having a low id on Slashdot (I don't seem to have that problem)

      --
      You want fun, go home and buy a monkey!
    25. Re:As in... by rossz · · Score: 1

      Even if Social Security doesn't collapse, from a financial point of view, it's an extremely bad investment.

      Besides, the government broke every single promise they made about Social Security. For example, the promised the money would go into a special fund that wouldn't be touched. Of course it went right into the general fund and pissed away. They also promised (and put into the law!) that the Social Security number would never be used for identification purposes.

      I'd much rather put the money into a 401k.

      --
      -- Will program for bandwidth
    26. Re:As in... by Tom · · Score: 1

      More usefully, rather than screwing around with DNS, the best way to accomplish email portability would be to build another layer of abstraction on top of email as it currently exists. Instead of remembering people's emails, remember their real names or handles, and then have your email program consult some sort of global distributed database in order to find their email address (which would change whenever they moved ISPs or networks). Exactly. You point out the important difference: Phone numbers may have an internal meaning, but that is hidden from the user.

      E-Mail addresses have an obvious meaning. I can't be quite sane and think that jane@ibm.com is still available under that address after she's left IBM. It simply wouldn't make sense. (except as a forward for some time, of course.)
      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    27. Re:As in... by Boiling_point_ · · Score: 1

      If I believe that Social Security is going to collapse before I can benefit ... why the hell would I want pay into such a thing?

      That's just it. Seeing welfare as a purely financial thing misses the entire point.

      Where I live, we have nowhere near the ratio of people in deep poverty that some other countries do. Having fewer really poor and desperate people in my society makes my society safer, cleaner and generally a bunch happier. In my society, I'm not waiting for the end of my career to experience the benefits of a functional welfare system, paid back as a pension; rather, I live today without so much fear that I need to go armed in public like people do overseas.

      I'm not trolling, I'm just Australian.

      --
      "If you create user accounts, by default, they will have an account type of Administrator with no password." KB Q293834
    28. Re:As in... by clare-ents · · Score: 1

      I sincerely hope you manage to draw twice as much money from the healthcare system than you put in so it becomes an excellent financial investment.

      Personally I'd rather stay healthy.

      --
      Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. (Einstein)
    29. Re:As in... by ajs318 · · Score: 1

      Anyone who buys software and doesn't insist to have the Source Code, is going to get a harsh lesson one day.

      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    30. Re:As in... by jsiren · · Score: 1

      There may well be perfectly good reasons to hate inefficient services. However, the same thing can be done in many different ways. For example, see WHO/Europe Highlights on health, Finland 2004. In 2001, the total expenditure on health care in Finland was $1841 (purchasing power parity) per capita; in the US it was $4887. This includes both the private and public sectors. (Health expenditure trends in OECD countries, 1990-2001, p. 11; see also p. 4)

      --
      Usage: km/h for speed (kilometers per hour); kph for very slow impulses (kilopond hours).
    31. Re:As in... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      It is more like socialized security.
      That, my friend, is a good thing.
      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    32. Re:As in... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      I'd much rather put the money into a 401k.
      You better make sure you don't retire the week the stock market drops 1000 points.

      Tell you what, why not let everybody put their retirement funds on a big roulette table and the one whose number comes up gets all the money?

      Better to invest in family, community. When I get old, they're going to be the ones that take care of me, anyway.
      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    33. Re:As in... by sjames · · Score: 1

      Portability for phone numbers makes sense, because they are just arbitrary numbers and AT&T can give you 12345 just as well as any other provider.

      They are arbitrary NOW, but before making the changes for number portability, they certainly were not. The area code and prefix addressed a particular CO. Within the CO, the last 4 digits would actuate physical relays from rack to rack finally selecting your physical copper pair. At that time, a sufficiently knowledgable person could physically locate every single relay actuated and what position it would be in for any arbitrary phone number dialed from any other number. There was a particular path through the telco's hardware hard wired.

      Gradually over time, the system became more 'virtual' in nature and numbers more arbitrary. By virtue of starting out on computers rather than mechanical relay based state machines, IP and DNS started out less hard-wired, but there are still limits. While in theory, we could route IP addresses arbitrarily, in practice, no router above the AS level will accept a route for less than a /24. To handle /32, each router would need at least 4GB of RAM just for the table. They'd need far more to maintain enough state to avoid regularly screwing up.

    34. Re:As in... by skintigh2 · · Score: 1

      Yes, I do. It's called forwarding. Just like with physical mail when I move to a new house, they should forward messages for X amount of time until everyone learns my new address.

      My school (WPI) allows alumni to set up an email address that does nothing but bounce messages to whatever address you are using at the time, and a lot of places allow me to set up a "reply to" address field in my email. I don't see why this is such an unreasonable request.

    35. Re:As in... by rossz · · Score: 1

      Since it's my damn money, I should be allowed to decide how it gets invested.

      How about a compromise. Let me invest half the money the way I see fit. If I used a dart board to choose my investment strategy, I'd still get a better return on my investment than Social Security.

      --
      -- Will program for bandwidth
    36. Re:As in... by Stephen+Ma · · Score: 1
      There are perfectly good reasons to hate universal health care...

      Universal health care is cheaper and gets better results: is that why you hate it? There is a term for people who are happy to spend more for poorer service: it is the opposite of "genius".

    37. Re:As in... by misleb · · Score: 1

      Yes, I do. It's called forwarding. Just like with physical mail when I move to a new house, they should forward messages for X amount of time until everyone learns my new address.


      Of course they should forward your email for a certain amount of time, but that isn't the same thing as making an address portable.

      -matthew
      --
      "THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS ONLY ME." -Death
    38. Re:As in... by jadavis · · Score: 1

      You better make sure you don't retire the week the stock market drops 1000 points.

      Why? Can you show a situation where Social Security actually produces a better return for an individual who had a good career?

      --
      Social scientists are inspired by theories; scientists are humbled by facts.
    39. Re:As in... by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 1

      The only reason I have to be apprehensive (not even hate, as you wrongly inferred from my post) is that I don't trust the US government to do it right. At all. Period. I consider them to be a bunch of incompetent morons in Washington, and personally, I'd rather not be forced into some crappy, badly-run system that they come up with. If it's good, fine then, I'll use it, but if it's bad, I'd be pretty pissed about being forced to pay for sub-par service.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    40. Re:As in... by Stephen+Ma · · Score: 1
      If it's good, fine then, I'll use it, but if it's bad, I'd be pretty pissed about being forced to pay for sub-par service.

      Yes, but you presume from the outset that the service will be bad, or more expensive, or both, contrary to the experience of just about every other country in the West. Believe me, the U.S. does not have a monopoly on corruption and incompetence. Other countries undoubtedly suffer from both of these forms of corrosion, yet they manage to cover everybody while offerring better service than the U.S. -- at half the cost of the crazy U.S. system.

      You automatically dismiss universal health care when the overwhelming preponderance of the evidence -- generations of it, in many countries -- is against you. Who objects to better service at half the cost? Only an unreasonable hater, such as yourself.

    41. Re:As in... by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 1
      No, I presume that it will be bad, and that I will be forced into it if it proves to be bad. That's the catch, right there. I don't care how bad it is, as long as I can get out if it's bad. However, I know that's not going to be the case, and if we have a bad system, there'll be no way out.

      See, you have this bad interpretation going on. You think, and have thought, from the start (erroneously) that I hate universal health care. No. For starters, I only said that there are good reasons to hate it, but I don't even hate it, although I recognize good reasons to do so. I merely want an excellent plan in place so that we won't be permanently stuck with the bad system that, without caution, our government is liable to design.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    42. Re:As in... by Stephen+Ma · · Score: 1
      No, I presume that it will be bad, and that I will be forced into it if it proves to be bad. That's the catch, right there. I don't care how bad it is, as long as I can get out if it's bad.

      So where is your option to pay half and get better service? Answer: you don't have that option today. Your choices -- six of one HMO or half a dozen of another -- is actually pretty limited compared to the options available to others in the West. You have been brainwashed to believe that you are free, when actually you are not. Wake up!

  2. Build-your-own systems are starting to look good.. by KublaiKhan · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Right down to the processor level, even. If they're going to try to lock me into their hardware and software, I want none of it.

    Does anyone have a link to some resources on how one might build one's own processor? How much does it cost to do that sort of thing?

    --
    In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
    A stately pleasure dome decree
  3. Re:Build-your-own systems are starting to look goo by milsoRgen · · Score: 4, Informative

    http://www.opencores.org/

    As far as the cost of getting one of those built, I'd like to know that myself... Reminds me when I was part of the crew dismantling the old fabs responsible for the Z80... Shoulda paid one of the drivers to deliver one of those Canon machines to my garage...

    --
    I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask where they're goin' and hook up with 'em later.
  4. Re:Build-your-own systems are starting to look goo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Prohibitively expensive and time consuming (unless you want to make a 4 bit processor, some one did that recently by hand).

  5. Symantec by QuantumRiff · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Is the freaking worst. We finally switched when their AV client, sitting idle on a PC that was just booted, was using 50MB of RAM. (Some of our systems only had 256 at the time). Over 4 years, our renewal costs (we're a school), went from $5/machine to $18/machine. We still use ghost, and have not seem one damn improvement in the last 4 years, even though it has gone through all sorts of different versions. (now using Ghost solution suite 2.0) I don't see any difference in the software. dear god, you would think they would use WinPE by now, and stop breaking up Ghost images into 2GB chunks. I guess 2 years ago they fixed some multicast issues. Thats it. We just moved from Backup Exec 9.1 to Backup Exec 11d (We had starting using when it was Veritas), mainly for tape encryption capabilities. Of course, it is working fairly well, unless I do something crazy Like try to encrypt our backups to tape. I sat on hold for 45 minutes yesterday, and gave up.. They just bought Altiris, which is who we were looking at to switch to from Ghost. GRRR.. They just buy companies, and then raise prices..

    --

    What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    1. Re:Symantec by greenbird · · Score: 1

      We just moved from Backup Exec 9.1 to Backup Exec 11d (We had starting using when it was Veritas), mainly for tape encryption capabilities. Of course, it is working fairly well, unless I do something crazy Like try to encrypt our backups to tape. I sat on hold for 45 minutes yesterday, and gave up.. They just bought Altiris, which is who we were looking at to switch to from Ghost. GRRR.. They just buy companies, and then raise prices..

      You know, with the price of disk space what it is today I find it hard to come up with any reason to use tapes for backup anymore. 2 backup servers, one offsite over VPN or ssh, with encrypted RAID hard drives on LVM, rsync with hardlinks and compressed dump for archiving is much cheaper and more reliably than tapes especially with offsite storage. This can even allow automated background backup of laptops when they're connected. What am I missing? What do tapes add that would justify the added expense and pain?

      --
      Who is John Galt?
    2. Re:Symantec by QuantumRiff · · Score: 1

      Long term storage. Our state mandates that student records be archived for 99 years. We can lock tapes in a Safety deposit box. They have a much longer shelf life (and are cheaper) than hard drives. I pay about $40 for a 600GB SDLT tape. Easier rotations. No raid setup, no off site connectivity costs (we don't have an "off site" yet). Smaller footprint too.. I can go back to any point in the last 8 years and grab a file. Can you do that with you hard drives? Do you still have servers with IDE drives?

      But mainly, its for long term storage..

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    3. Re:Symantec by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      I wasn't particularly thrilled when Altiris bought Wise Solutions (because we use Wise Installation Studio) but I was definitely displeased when Symantec bought Altiris. I've noticed that the latest release of Wise is slower and less stable than previous versions. Still a good product, don't get me wrong, but I don't like it one little bit when companies that I depend upon get bought out, particularly by outfits like Symantec. Hell, even if the new owner is a decent operation, shit changes, and often not for the better..

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    4. Re:Symantec by rho · · Score: 1

      Will the DLT last for 99 years? Or is this a "let the next guy dump them out to holocrystals" thing?

      --
      Potato chips are a by-yourself food.
    5. Re:Symantec by turbidostato · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Do you still have servers with IDE drives?"

      Oh! so you are one of those that still own in operating conditions half-inch open-reel tapers?

      Or else, your argument is moot, you know...

    6. Re:Symantec by Vombatus · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Long term storage. Our state mandates that student records be archived for 99 years. We can lock tapes in a Safety deposit box.

      You do realise that backup and archiving are two entirely different things, don't you?

      --
      This sig is intentionally blank
    7. Re:Symantec by fuzznutz · · Score: 1

      Symantec is where good software goes to die.

      I wish I could take credit for this little bit of wisdom, but I read it here on Slashdot.

    8. Re:Symantec by jafac · · Score: 1

      Well, as a veteran of this industry (tape backup), I can tell you that the regulatory agencies completely ignored the consolidation that went on. The story goes; Palindrome Backup and Arcada Backup used to be small, independent players, both were bought by hard drive companies (Seagate and Conner), then Seagate bought Conner, and you had Seagate Software, who bought NetBackup, TeleBackup, (and I think two others whose names I don't recall), then Seagate Software was sold by Seagate to Veritas, which later got bought by Symantec.

      Along the way, a lot of good, viable companies were eaten, solutions and technologies eliminated from the marketplace - via positioning and financial finagling, not technical superiority. Customers were locked-in via proprietary tape formats, proprietary catalog formats, proprietary remote agents and communication protocols, and in many cases, "migration tools" were promised, and never delivered. Customers would be forced to switch over, losing their ability to restore archived history, because features were updated on one product while the competing product that was bought, was abandoned. This includes abandonment of hardware support - I know of customers that shitcanned a $100,000 robotic tape loader because the legacy product supported it, but the "new" product from the same company would not; and the support amounted to getting someone to add a SCSI advertisement string into a resource file.

      If I were an IT manager, I sure as hell would NOT invest in tape backup. I would roll my own system, based on RAID and NAS. Offsite storage would be done using hot-swappable DASD. Tape, and tape backup software is for SUCKERS.

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
  6. This is true, but on the other hand by rastoboy29 · · Score: 1

    By being greedy for lockin one also increases the difficulty of getting the initial sale.

    1. Re:This is true, but on the other hand by rkanodia · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This isn't always true. For many users, the pain of proprietary file formats is not understood until well after the purchase.

    2. Re:This is true, but on the other hand by nschubach · · Score: 1

      Not really... if you work with the OEMs and offer them ultra cheap prices on your initial run or give them away free on the net, you can sit back and benefit from those customers coming to you for an upgraded version in the future so they can use whatever service it is that you provide.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    3. Re:This is true, but on the other hand by idontgno · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Tell it to street-level drug pushers. They mastered lock-in decades ago. It's only recently that tech marketing has risen to the level of "The first taste is free, baby!"

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    4. Re:This is true, but on the other hand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everyone here and all linux lovers around the world should read that crap and try to learn a thing or two.

      I am no fanboi, and I know that catering to the lowest common denominator sucks. But until linux can be used by computer noobs, AND the unofficial IT guy can fix something when it breaks... desktop linux adoption will be slow.

      My mom uses windows xp. My dad can work with xp and fiddle until things work. Replace that with ubuntu and I would have to move back home.

  7. Re:Build-your-own systems are starting to look goo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  8. Re:Build-your-own systems are starting to look goo by eln · · Score: 4, Funny

    Does anyone have a link to some resources on how one might build one's own processor? How much does it cost to do that sort of thing? Well, it depends on how fast you want it to be. For my home computer, I used the instructions here. It's a little slow for less advanced users, but I find I can surf the web at a pretty good clip once I get going. Of course, splinters can be a problem.
  9. Re:Build-your-own systems are starting to look goo by maxwell+demon · · Score: 5, Funny

    Don't stop at the processor level. The fundamental laws of physics already contain signs of corporate lock-in. The No-cloning feature of quantum mechanics clearly is a sign of DRM built into the fundamental laws of the universe. And the inner workings of about everything we use is tied to the exact laws of the universe we are in. Therefore you have to start at the very beginning: First build your own universe!

    --
    The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
  10. Yawn by clarkkent09 · · Score: 0, Redundant

    You are only as "locked-in" as you want to be. Simple answer that applies to all his examples: buy a product or service that doesn't lock you in.

    --
    Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
  11. Re:Build-your-own systems are starting to look goo by webmaster404 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Hmm? I highly doubt that any computer maker will lock you into hardware/software it just is bad business. Think of Dell, Vista failed, people started to not buy computers so they switched to letting people use XP, enough people wrote in and now they offer Linux, the hardware companies just want to sell hardware, if they can get that by offering Vista they will, if enough people request Linux they will offer that. Most hardware manufacturers want their product to be used as much as possible, if that means using standards they will (and mostly have) use it to get people to buy it. We are far away from computers (laptop and desktops not PDAs and Cell Phones and such) that have hardware/software lockin and the only one to have done it was Apple however now they let even Windows boot on Macs. The fact is, hardware manufacturers don't care about locking you into software, they just want money, if they can get that by offering MS, Linux, or whatever they will so lockin is a bad choice for them.

    --
    There is no "disagree" moderation, and troll, flamebait and overrated are not valid substitutes
  12. Urgh... some worse than others. by Penguinisto · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I love the one from Cadence that required a license key which in turn ties into a specific MAC address before it'll start up... hope the NIC doesn't die (I'm currently stuck with seeing if I can get a VM instance going and fake the same MAC for a migration... not looking good, and not a day goes by that I don't curse my predecessor for installing that POS in the first place).

    Hell, my management fears vendor lock-in more than they fear Death itself (which probably explains why we're a very heavy Linux shop)...

    I realize that a lot of PHB's couldn't care less (and an alarming # of CIO's and IT management don't either), but we're far enough along now that it's starting to bite a lot of accountants and IT critters square in the ass.

    IMHO, it does matter, and it explains why a lot of shops are moving away from proprietary solutions, going to Linux/BSD and such.

    Now if only we can definitively tackle the two biggest examples of attempted vendor lock-in alive (Exchange and MS Office), we'd be set.

    /P

    --
    Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    1. Re:Urgh... some worse than others. by Obfuscant · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I'm currently stuck with seeing if I can get a VM instance going and fake the same MAC for a migration...

      The beauty of using Linux is that you get the source code. ALL the source code. Even the code that implements the IOCTL function for "tell me my interface's MAC address".

    2. Re:Urgh... some worse than others. by GwaihirBW · · Score: 1

      If you're running Linux, you shouldn't have to run a VM just to tell a piece of software the MAC addy it wants to hear . . .

      --
      "There are four boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order." - Ed Howdershelt
    3. Re:Urgh... some worse than others. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ifconfig eth0 down hw ether 00:00:00:00:00:00
      ifconfig eth0 up

    4. Re:Urgh... some worse than others. by whoever57 · · Score: 1

      I love the one from Cadence that required a license key which in turn ties into a specific MAC address before it'll start up... hope the NIC doesn't die
      You do know about macchanger, don't you? Or "ip link address ..."
      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    5. Re:Urgh... some worse than others. by sexconker · · Score: 1

      My NForce 2 (3?) chipset's LAN lets me specify a MAC in the BIOS.

    6. Re:Urgh... some worse than others. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm assuming you're not using Linux so http://www.klcconsulting.net/smac/

    7. Re:Urgh... some worse than others. by sconeu · · Score: 1

      VirtualBox lets you set the MAC. It's right there on the Network settings page.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    8. Re:Urgh... some worse than others. by Penguinisto · · Score: 1
      That's correct - this is a legacy bit that we're stuck with on one of the few Win2k3 servers we have still going.

      My thanks for the tip :)

      /P

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    9. Re:Urgh... some worse than others. by imbaczek · · Score: 1

      I haven't seen a NIC that can't change it's mac in the driver options on win xp. It's never called "MAC address" like it should, though.

    10. Re:Urgh... some worse than others. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      No, no system randomizes the MAC address on boot. that would be insane.

      Anyway, all systems allow you to set the MAC address for a NIC if you dont want to use the factory default.

      ifconfig can change the MAC address on unixens, editing (i think it is) PROTOCOL.INI on windows does the same thing unless you already have a dialog in control panel for the driver for your NIC to do it through the gui.

      If you change the MAC address, you should set it to an address that has the second least significant bit in the first octet to 1. This bit is called the "LocallyAdministratedAddress" and its whole purpose is that IF you set it when you change a MAC address, this bit will allow you to distinguis between globally unique MAC addresses (as you have in the factory default) and ones you have modified yourself and which therefore are not guaranteed to be globally unique. This to make it easier to see if it is your own fault or not if/when you get a duplicate mac on your network.

    11. Re:Urgh... some worse than others. by dbIII · · Score: 1
      USB to network dongles do the job well and it's easy to change the MAC address in every OS I am familiar with (most likely the others as well). Just ask the vendor first. One was happy with this solution when they only had a choice of parallel port blocks or a MAC address and I wanted a USB dongle so the software could be legally used on a few machines. A lot of this security software is effectively abandonware that predates the trend of vanishing parallel ports.

      This year (2008) I've already had licenced software blocked by the licencing tools due to a Y2K bug (permanant licence reset to expire on 1/1/2000) for six days and a broken dongle for five days. These things are very annoying but with multiple casual users on multiple machines it's hard to avoid. Personally I really want this per seat licencing to go away and hopefully Macrovision to vanish enitrly as a company taking all of their buggy code with them.

      As for Exchange, there's a not a lot you can do about it once it gets in apart from try to keep it going with a lot of third party tools. It's not so bad as it was - they call it "enterprise" software now which must refer to the improvement that complete backups are now possible without shutting the whole thing down. Various fanboys will miss the word "complete" or have new definitions of it.

    12. Re:Urgh... some worse than others. by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "The only other relevant thing I can think of is that some (all?) linux distros randomize MAC addresses of network cards on boot..."

      Wow, man, that one was really great.

      At the same time it explains why religion is so pervasive in human race: people have a *very* strong tendency (I'd even say a *perverse* tendency) to fullfill their ignorance out of the most absurd "explanations". 'Horror vacui', I think.

    13. Re:Urgh... some worse than others. by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      I love the one from Cadence that required a license key which in turn ties into a specific MAC address before it'll start up


      Good thing that almost all NICs can be configured to be any MAC you want if necessary.
    14. Re:Urgh... some worse than others. by nevali · · Score: 1

      The only other relevant thing I can think of is that some (all?) linux distros randomize MAC addresses of network cards on boot... woe to the user who tries to use the software you're referring to through wine! Presumably there are no DHCP or BOOTP clients for Linux, then?
    15. Re:Urgh... some worse than others. by CodeBuster · · Score: 1

      If you are using Linux then it probably isn't an issue, set the MAC to whatever you want. However, in windows it is also possible to alter the MAC address of your network interfaces to something other that the factory defaults. The procedure is as follows:

      Go to the Properties menu of the Ethernet adapter, in the Advanced tab, as "MAC Address", "Locally Administered Address", "Ethernet Address", "Physical Address" or "Network Address". The exact name depends on the Ethernet driver used; not all drivers' support changing the MAC address in this way. If not, then you can edit the registry manually:

      HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Class\{4D36E972-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}.

      Here you can find the settings for each network interface. To set the MAC address of the adapter when next it is enabled will be the contents of the string value called 'NetworkAddress'. If the NetworkAddress string value isn't there then create it and give it the hex (no hyphens) for the address you want to use (probably the one bound to your expensive software installation).

    16. Re:Urgh... some worse than others. by slashbart · · Score: 1

      >Presumably there are no DHCP or BOOTP clients for Linux, then?

      Showing your ignorance in public is probably not a good thing for improving your standing with your peers. Unless your peers are all on the same level as you are. Fortunately this is not the case.

    17. Re:Urgh... some worse than others. by TheThiefMaster · · Score: 1

      A lot of network cards allow you to change their mac address from inside the properties of the card (properties of the lan connection, "configure", or properties of the card in device manager, same thing). It'll be listed as "network address" or "locally administered address", and should be entered without dashes.

      I'm pretty sure the nForce 4 and 5 chipsets also allow you to change the integrated network port(s) mac address(es) in the bios too (nForce 5 has twin gigabit network ports).

    18. Re:Urgh... some worse than others. by Fred_A · · Score: 1

      *whoosh*

      --

      May contain traces of nut.
      Made from the freshest electrons.
    19. Re:Urgh... some worse than others. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A quick note: most NICs nowadays can have their MAC address changed -usually through the driver- even in Windows. So if you write down your MAC address and keep the note in a safe, you'll be ok.

    20. Re:Urgh... some worse than others. by caution+live+frogs · · Score: 1

      Now if only we can definitively tackle the two biggest examples of attempted vendor lock-in alive (Exchange and MS Office), we'd be set.

      I never understood what people saw in Exchange. Do companies really use the calendar features that extensively? I'd think it would be worth the pain of having to write stuff down in a day planner just to dump Exchange in favor of an open email client and an IMAP server. Of course, I manually enter all my stuff into my phone, iCal or Google Calendar already, and it's not that big a pain.

      As for MS Office, the lockdown issue there really bothers me. As a Mac and Windows user, I'm really annoyed at the major differences between Office versions on the two platforms. Schneier states that the "pain of learning a new interface" is part of the lockdown strategy - so MS, to encourage lockdown, radically changes the interface on both platforms, while ensuring that neither new Office version is consistent with or compatible with the other (lack of VisualBasic in Mac Office, breaking all third-party add-ins as a result, plus problems opening/closing files made on the other platform, etc.) That is actually hurting them, because the pain of dealing with the radically different interfaces (and lack of feature parity for Mac users) is actually encouraging me to drop Office 08 and go open-source. I'm already dealing with learning a new interface, etc., so why learn theirs when they are making it so damn hard this time around?

    21. Re:Urgh... some worse than others. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, people do use calendars that much. Also tasks.

      I started my current job 2 years ago and they used Outlook tasks for helpdesk tickets. When I tried to introduce an open source web based app that would have integrated perfectly into our intranet (WSS/SPS/MOSS - talk about lock in) it was shut down forcefully. I was told that our users should not have to learn another tasking system just for IT.

      So i found a way to get tasks exported to a database live. Still have my open source app, but we still have to use tasks.

      There is basically no way to get Outlook out of most businesses. Look at Office 2007!!! Even MS was scared to change the UI on Outlook! All the others are drasticaly diferent, but Outlook is close enough that users won't need "this is where it was, this is where it is" training.

      So yeah, it is that hard to get out of a business.

  13. so is a gun to the head... by djupedal · · Score: 1

    "The subscription model is one of the ways to milk extra bucks from lock-in"

    Of course - I in no way declared there was a singular definition, but thanks for expanding the subject, none-the-less :)

  14. Re:Let me guess by eln · · Score: 5, Funny

    I really don't think you should be talking about Bruce Schneier like that when you clearly know nothing about the man. For example, did you know that Bruce Schneier once decrypted a box of Alpha Bits? Or that he knows the state of Schroedinger's cat? It's true!

  15. There's not a single new thing about lock-in by postbigbang · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Just some things that are more onerous than others. This has been going on since the beginning of the industry, and it won't change. You can complain about it all you want, but it's going to continue to happen.

    Everyone wants a revenue stream not a revenue pond.

    That doesn't justify boorish behavior, but it explains how companies want to stay in existence, and few other models exist that allow them to do this. Once again, Bruce thinks we were born yesterday.

    --
    ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    1. Re:There's not a single new thing about lock-in by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes you're right. But the stream and pond are illusions of greed and shortsightedness. Think of all the products over the years that you have fought with.

      Power connectors. There's a perfectly good international standard but your manufacturer chooses to modify the connector making it 1mm smaller than it should be, so you have to buy their power supplies.

      Batteries. There are scores of standard sizes for ever possible device. But your manufacturer decided to create one that doesn't fit anything else and nothing else will fit in its place.

      The list goes on forever of course, gas connectors, plumbing joints, lamp fittings...

      Each time a manufacturer decides to deliberately use a non-standard and incompatible device they seriously reduce the value of that product. Landfill sites are full of obsolete proprietry power adapters, they function perfectly well, but nobody wants a Sony XYZ from 1980 for any other use, so it goes in the trash.

      That product had to be designed (to be unique) where great sums of money could have been saved by using an ISO standard.

      If you over-manufacture, nobody wants the stock. You can't resell to a generic market.

      These idiots cut off their nose to spite their face. The big guys understand the value and security in commodity markets, in generics and
      standards. Products manufactured to standards can be resold on any market, rebranded or adapted.

      The reason software can be designed for lock in is that it costs zero to (re)produce. This is why open source code is so very valuable, not because of it's functionality, it's functionality is almost irrelevant compared to the value of reuse and standards.

    2. Re:There's not a single new thing about lock-in by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 1

      Once again, Bruce thinks we were born yesterday.

      Maybe he's found his own "celebrity lock-in", where he's getting headlines for stating what's basically f**cking obvious. I think he should stick with security.

    3. Re:There's not a single new thing about lock-in by postbigbang · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No one argues the downsides and superfluity of lock-ins. I like FOSS. But standards are used by those that bought and paid for them. Look at the history of Ethernet if you're not sure about that. Stallman was right about many things, and one of them was greed. Open is better, but don't expect the world to change overnight.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    4. Re:There's not a single new thing about lock-in by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      it won't change. You can complain about it all you want, but it's going to continue to happen.

      [cynical]You're probably right[/cynical] but complaining serves a useful function, on its own. Most people don't think about lock-in, or aren't able to perceive it (until they're locked). When you complain (especially if you have a large audience, like The Bruce), you can get the word out. You can cause prospective buyers to become informed. Information is a market force. Sadly, it's a weak one, but it's something. Maybe Apple will lose a few sales over this. Maybe someone selling open phones will gain a few customers over this. Complain about it.

      FWIW, in my life I have seen a few signs, that some of this information -- just a little -- does trickle down to non-nerds. The public is slowly (excruciatingly so) becoming more aware of the issue.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    5. Re:There's not a single new thing about lock-in by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      I saw this device recently, designed to be a be-all power supply for everything. It auto-senses voltage draw and feeds it. You have to get different connectors for different hardware, but it powers darn near anything from a USB widget to an Apple PowerBook (not sure about the weird connector for MacBook Pro). The idea is to give a road warrior freedom from carrying so many bricks. It's a wonderful idea, and it is doomed, sadly. Get a generic car, and you'll get a generic PC. Sorry to use automotive metaphor, but it's true. Building a better car, unfortunately, is not tied to how easily fixed it is, rather how fast it goes, and if I can fit it into my budget with the storage I need. Rarely do people think about green-ness, whether it can be fixed easily/inexpensively, has a long asset life, and other seemingly meaningful things. It seems only that it is in a desired color, and can dock an iPod. So it goes.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    6. Re:There's not a single new thing about lock-in by Vellmont · · Score: 1


      This has been going on since the beginning of the industry, and it won't change. You can complain about it all you want, but it's going to continue to happen.

      I disagree. Lock-in is getting smaller every year. To give a few examples, Do you have any vendor lock-in with your SMTP server? Nope, because SMTP has been the standard mail transfer protocol for years. Are you locked into a single router vendor? Hell no, because TCP/IP is TCP/IP.

      Lock-in only makes sense as far as a single vendor-neutral standard doesn't outweigh the benefits of a non-standard. The standard for document exchange is PDF, not .doc. You don't have to run any Adobe software if you don't wish to. As any industry matures, standards tend to set in and destroy lock-in.

      --
      AccountKiller
    7. Re:There's not a single new thing about lock-in by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      With rare exception, standards are bought and paid for. Look at who's on the IEEE committees..... the ITU.... it's not civilian engineers, it's sponsored lobbyists. Certainly, they don't always get their way, and there's a bit of democracy-- if that's what you want to call it. Vendor-neutrality is somewhat of an oxymoron.

      Sun, IMHO, used to manipulate Ethernet by using non-standard frame gaps. Their traffic would get through before someone else's that respected a frame gap. SMTP is a horrible standard, and your mail box is full of the problem with it-- junk mail and spam. Those that 'improve' upon the standard with proprietary API sets (think Exchange) have won enormous market share. That's not because Exchange is bad, it's not horrible and it's a lock-in. Those that get the first turf often win, but not always so.

      TCP/IP is a wonderful transport, and it has thousands of RFC patches, fixes, enhancements, and other twists. Yet basic services survive because it's 'open'. I have a jaundiced view; I have to deal with network design, transports, and the evils of operating systems (from A-Z) and I'll grant you that transparency and community help.

      Restated, complain all you want. Lock-in continues, and it will continue until there's a more systematic approach to open business models rather than cult-based, fear-based purchasing-- and that attitude has to be reflected from stockholders and top management all the way to users. In the interim, expect vendors to be greedy. It's tough out there.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    8. Re:There's not a single new thing about lock-in by DavidNWelton · · Score: 1

      In Information Rules the authors suggest that clients need to be informed about the potential for lock in, and crucially, to negotiate a good deal before signing up, while they still have bargaining power.

    9. Re:There's not a single new thing about lock-in by gbjbaanb · · Score: 1

      In a way there already is a systematic approach to open business models.. or remind me how well IBM and GEC are doing as IT vendors nowadays..

      If MS and others increases their lockin practices (and I'm sure they will try more and more) then they will only serve to increase the number of Linux desktops out there. Its ironic that the best way to get Linux on the Desktop is for Microsoft to do everything in its power to keep Windows there :)

    10. Re:There's not a single new thing about lock-in by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      You have twisted logic. Microsoft's been locking in OEMs and users for a dozen years now. Linux should therefore be past the stage of servers and ubiquitous on the desktop. But alas, it is not so. IBM, GEC, BAAN, SAP, SalesForce, and all of the major services vendors know that it's very difficult to do a wholesale/forklift upgrade of everything you have. Inertia is the first construct in vendor lock-in. I could take each of the aforementioned vendors apart, citing chapter and verse (I'm, sorry, litigant and docket) and drag their hallowed names through the mud.

      I want to believe IBM and others, but they have a history of FUD themselves.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    11. Re:There's not a single new thing about lock-in by gbjbaanb · · Score: 1

      eh?

      I meant, look to history when IBM had the stranglehold on computer equipment - if you wanted more memory, it had to be IBM proprietary memory, in a IBM proprietary slot, wrapped in IBM proprietary packing and delivered by an IBM proprietary courier! Then they accidentally created the open PC architecture and look at the state of computing now.

      Same applies to other huge companies that had extreme lock-in on their products. Hardly any of them exist today.

      So, if MS decides that you have to have windows and attempt to enforce that through lock-in of DRM or WGA or anything, then you'll find that the market will naturally gravitate towards the alternative (currently Linux, I guess) and MS will end up with the kind of market share that DEC has in the marketplace today (perhaps your kids will talk about Windows in the same way I talk abotu VMS)

    12. Re:There's not a single new thing about lock-in by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      Given your clarification, we would agree.

      IBM goofed when they released the XP motherboard with no copyright. It sparked a clone revolution.

      DEC goofed with many things, like the DECMate with proprietary floppy formats.

      AT&T made similar lock-ins. Then of course, AT&T was slaughtered in the BSD debacle. NCR was forced to find a niche. Compaq tried EISA and found what a silly move that was.

      Apple waned when they locked-in hardware, then kind-of allowed their items to be 'cloned', but not really. Offering a PCI-bus and CardBus slots along with FireWire/I-Wire/IEEE 1394 was a start, but the rest of the guts were/are still difficult to deal with.

      Then we could go into the mainframe/mini category, which were virtually all lock-ins. That's why they're not here anymore. What's onerous is the OEM relationships that Microsoft has with hardware vendors. Slowly, alternative choices have been made to in situ operating systems, and even a few refunds made to scrape Windows from new machines.

      Along the way, it could get better, but the CE industry seems to support such crap-- viz the HDMI madness, and the bizarre interconnect of CE and cell/mobiles product groupings. Sigh.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
  16. This has *always* been the case... by wandazulu · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Per the article, sure, you can switch to a Pepsi in a second if you don't like the Coke, but both Pepsi and Coke spend *enormous* amounts of money to suggest that switching to the competitor's product will make you less desirable to women, less success at your job, etc. That's what advertising is all about, trying to get you to lock *yourself* in, willingly, to a single product.

    But I digress...

    Everybody dreams of being Ma Bell, where even putting a plastic cone on a headset could "damage the network". A lot of companies have had their turn too. We all think of Microsoft as being the king of lock-in, but for my money, it would still be IBM, where their mainframes and mid-range machines were so locked down that you had to get approval to install *anything*. At least with a PC or even a Mac, you can install another OS and you're free and clear. With IBM equipment, they could shut you down remotely if you missed a single "usage" payment (which was calculated *by* *the* *processor* *cycle*!!).

    I cannot think of a single company that wouldn't want total lock-in of its users, regardless of industry. Some are just more capable of doing it than others.

    1. Re:This has *always* been the case... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, what if some company (or group of companies) decides to be open completely? It dies? Is there any possible solution to balance money greediness in real world the same way as GPL balances proprietary software? Something opposite and viral?

  17. I got lockwd in... by tristian_was_here · · Score: 3, Funny

    I got locked into Ballmer's secret office after he found Linux on my laptop while sitting in the park.

    I did manage to escape the MS compound dodging flying chairs!

    1. Re:I got lockwd in... by Dr.+Cody · · Score: 1

      I saw things... terrible things...

  18. Well by moogied · · Score: 1

    The article is misleading. A big reason for "lock-in's" is due to service contracts. While I can surely move away from microsoft to linux, it would require a new service contract. I just paid for the next 3 years of Microsoft Gold Ass Pirate Support Line or whatever it is called now. Why would I ever switch to RedHat? I could do the same, maybe even cheaper... but in three years the entire place will be built on microsoft. Its not rocket science, its lazyness.

    --
    So basically, -1 troll/offtopic is really slashdots way of saying "I hate that you thought of something before me."
    1. Re:Well by moderatorrater · · Score: 1

      Really? Because the biggest reasons I can't move away from Microsoft are the drivers, IE, all my software, flash, and lack of support from any other company. Want to use Western Digitals tools to format a hard drive? Boot disk or Windows. Want to play any major video game from the past 10 years? If it's one of the five that support linux, you'll only have to download a new binary. More likely, you're fucked. Want to play WoW on linux? Fine, but one of their updates may break support because it thinks you're cheating. The list goes on and on, and they're all reasons people have a hard time getting away from windows. Luckily, there's a growing market of people who have been exposed to linux from the server market and realize that they should use it for desktops. It's gained a lot of steam in the past 2 years, and it's going to keep going for the foreseeable future. Until it's a major force, however, we're stuck with Windows being the only operating system where everything works on it.

    2. Re:Well by ion.simon.c · · Score: 1

      > Want to use Western Digitals tools to format a hard drive?

      *Why* would you do such a thing?

  19. Re:Build-your-own systems are starting to look goo by some+old+guy · · Score: 5, Funny

    I built my own universe once, but the startup Bang really hosed up my wife's microwave.

    --
    Scruting the inscrutable for over 50 years.
  20. I'm sorry, there are plenty better examples by captnitro · · Score: 1

    Your iPhone comes with a complicated list of rules about what you can and can't do with it. You can't install unapproved third-party applications on it. You can't unlock it and use it with the cellphone carrier of your choice.


    As Gruber noted, that's not really that complicated. It doesn't count as complicated if you can explain it in two sentences.

    It's why all gaming-console manufacturers make sure that their game cartridges don't work on any other console...


    I think we need another word for this than "lock-in", because a lot of the examples he cites are lock-in but mostly in the sense that Nintendo probably doesn't want to be an international standards body for video game formats. The word might be "cost". If Nintendo worries about Nintendo's problems, then they're easier to solve than trying to solve everyone's problems. Why? It's lower cost. Costs less time, less money, it's less risky. And in defense of some of those entities, firm standards rarely result in innovation. Having an ISO for hand-held game controllers might result in an easy way to write code for controllers with six buttons and vibration, but having standards for game controllers doesn't result in the Wiimote. Not worrying abut six-button vibrating controllers does.

    Schneier's half-right, but he's also saying that lock-in is always a conscious factor and not just, yanno, the cost of the thing. I'm locked into my current metropolitan area by the cost of moving, but it's not city hall's problem.

    As for conscious lock-in, if you don't want a phone with lock-in, you're free to get one. Enjoy paying twice as much for calls and having a per-call fee. Lock-in costs less than stuff without lock-in because it reduces risk. It's a valuable tool and one that, despite the Slashdot crowd's feeling, most consumers have little problem with as a way to get goods more cheaply.
    1. Re:I'm sorry, there are plenty better examples by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      Mu iPaq doesn't have lock in. I bought it direct from HP rather than from a phone company, and then got a SIM only contract from O2 which is less than half the price of the iPhone contract. The phone cost £320 vs £270 for the iPhone, and in at least some areas, has more features - it has GPS, a keyboard, Exchange push support, the ability to add Blackberry support, and the ability to write your own software on it using Visual Studio or possibly Mono.

    2. Re:I'm sorry, there are plenty better examples by un1xl0ser · · Score: 1

      As for conscious lock-in, if you don't want a phone with lock-in, you're free to get one. Enjoy paying twice as much for calls and having a per-call fee. Lock-in costs less than stuff without lock-in because it reduces risk. It's a valuable tool and one that, despite the Slashdot crowd's feeling, most consumers have little problem with as a way to get goods more cheaply. As discussed above, a subscription model (including break-out fees) doesn't fit the type of lock-in that we are discussing here. The cost of getting out of a contract can sometimes be less than the cost of the phone itself, which means that the cost isn't above and beyond the cost of the product itself.

      Phones are a bad example of lock-in, in my opinion. Microsoft's monopoly and the software industry is the best example of lock-in, hands down. Beyond that, corporate IT is the next best place to find vendors participating in this business strategy.
      --
      v4sw6PU$hw6ln6pr4F$ck 4/6$ma3+6u7LNS$w2m4l7U$i2e4+7en6a2X h
    3. Re:I'm sorry, there are plenty better examples by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      As Gruber noted [daringfireball.net], that's not really that complicated. It doesn't count as complicated if you can explain it in two sentences.

      As much as I like what Gruber says in his blog, in this case he was just being another iPhone fanboi defending Apple. The difference between Nintendo vs. Sony vs. Microsoft is that even if the game discs themselves were the same size (and they weren't with the GameCube) the platforms hardware-wise were not. Comparing the three and asking why they aren't the same is an Apples/Oranges exercise. The iPhone is completely different in that there really is no compatibility difference. The fact you can unlock an iPhone and stick in a T-Mobile SIM is proof of that. The "incompatability" is completely artificial. Yes, there may be a security benefit to it. But honestly, how often do people install random apps from anywhere on their cell phone. I don't need Apple to protect me from malicious software. I'll gladly take the responsibility myself and enjoy usage of the device I paid for.

      And Schneier's article itself was filed under "D" in my cabinet (for DUH). The iPhone keeps being trumpeted as some market-changing device for everyone in the wireless food chain. It's not. Except for the unmetered internet access, it really has just been business-as-usual for end users. The only major shift you're seeing is handset makers now asking for subscription kickbacks from carriers on top of their usual deals.

      As for conscious lock-in, if you don't want a phone with lock-in, you're free to get one. Enjoy paying twice as much for calls and having a per-call fee.

      Talk about from the Patently-False Dept. I own an unlocked phone. I'm on T-Mobile. I'm NOT on contract, and I'm NOT on prepaid. And I pay the same amount as current locked-in customers do.

      If I get annoyed at T-Mobile tomorrow I can call and cancel my service and go to AT&T (hahaha), no termination fees.

      Here's the secret: You don't play "keeping up with the Joneses" on your phone. And when you're eligible to, you get your phone unlocked, or buy one that isn't locked to begin with.
  21. Re:Monopoly is the goal of capitalism by kidcharles · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "But that's not good for capitalism, so it isn't the goal of capitalism!" while sitting on Mommy's lap or at Mommy's Marxist University Actually the tendency for capitalism to eat itself alive with its drive for monopolization is accepted in and is part of Marxist economic theory. Another contradiction of capitalism that is an observation in Marxist theory is the desire of an individual firm to pay its employees as little as possible, but that depends on well-paid consumers having enough money to buy their products. That's my personal favorite.
    --
    Ceci n'est pas une sig.
  22. Re:Build-your-own systems are starting to look goo by ChrisMounce · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That's why it's called a lock-in -- you know the customers won't like what you're about to do, so you lock them in. And lock-in isn't a bool, it's a float: all companies lock customers in, but some do it intentionally and to much greater extents than others.

    I do agree with what you said when it comes to smaller companies/non-monopolies -- they don't have much reason to lock-in customers, because they don't have very many customers to lock in, and because it's much more beneficial to look like the consumer-friendly guys. And even though Dell makes a lot of computers, they're not the only PC manufacturer, and any edge over their competition helps.

  23. The car analogy strikes again by Sloppy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Buying an iPhone isn't the same as buying a car or a toaster. Your iPhone comes with a complicated list of rules about what you can and can't do with it.
    Unlike cars?
    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    1. Re:The car analogy strikes again by balloonhead · · Score: 1

      Only if you drive it on a public road. And the state sets the laws, not the manufacturer. If you own your own island and roads, you can do whatever modifications to it after purchase that you like and the maker couldn't care less.

      --
      This idea was invented by Shampoo.
    2. Re:The car analogy strikes again by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

      Unlike cars? And how exactly is a car like an iPhone?
      Everything from the seat you're sitting on, to the computer that controls the electronics can be changed.
      About the only thing you can't outright replace in a car is the frame...

      One could argue that high end luxury cars are designed to foster vendor lock-in, but you didn't make that argument.
      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
  24. Be Creative! by gnutoo · · Score: 1

    A subscription model can be a form of lock in, when you don't tell the subscribers how to halt their subscription. TW/AOHell did that to a lot of people. People were reluctant to spend twice the nominal cost of gettin on line each month, so making it difficult to leave was effectively a way to keep them on AOL. The difficulty involved in terminating any subscription acts as a form of lock in.

    Inversely, the myriad of lock in mechanisms employed by M$ and partners are virtual subscriptions. You don't really own the software, only a vague right to use that can be terminated without cause. The interlocking nature of the many lock in mechanisms both keep the victim from leaving and make sure the victim will need to replace everything every three years and the subscription model is complete. Windows, like a newspaper, only has value in context and for a limited time. Your old copy of MSDOS is worthless today as are most of every copy of software you have released before 2001. It only had value in context and the sooner you lose that context the better off you are.

    1. Re:Be Creative! by trolltalk.com · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Windows, like a newspaper, only has value in context and for a limited time. Your old copy of MSDOS is worthless today as are most of every copy of software you have released before 2001. It only had value in context and the sooner you lose that context the better off you are."

      It still does whatever you had to do in times past. For example, SimCity 4 runs fine on Windows 98. A lot of places refuse to dump their Win2k setups, or they have software that still requires DOS.

      Heck, I know one place that runs their financials on a Win 3.1 program. Its been doing everything they need for 15 years, and they're not going to change. It works, it runs fine under xp, and why fix what ain't broke?

    2. Re:Be Creative! by MightyMartian · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Heck, I know one place that runs their financials on a Win 3.1 program. Its been doing everything they need for 15 years, and they're not going to change. It works, it runs fine under xp, and why fix what ain't broke?


      Then they're very lucky indeed. I've seen a lot of accounting/financial software that I can only conclude is intentionally busted in places, and where these bugs are addressed with "Don't worry AccountingMegaWonderPro 2008 will fix this problem", which it does, of course, but opens up new ones, which are then going to be fixed with "AccountingMegaWonderPro 2009". This kind of software is awful in many ways, because the file formats are frequently proprietary, or at the very least some sort of locked MS-Access database that even when you crack it, you find an almost uninterpretable array of tables, dictionaries, queries and fields. The export formats to CSV or XML are usually insufficiently detailed, and it still means a lot of data entry to move from one accounting package to another. I've seen business stick for years to shitty accounting systems simply because the thought of moving to a new platform is so horrifying.
      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  25. The thing is... by felipekk · · Score: 1

    If you do it, you gotta do it right. Because if you allow the user to get out (considering that it was a painful process since you had some lock in), he is going to avoid making the same mistake again...

  26. Re:Build-your-own systems are starting to look goo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't worry, Ryerson. Maybe if you save your pennies, you guys can upgrade to a single XO that you all can share. Love, U of T.

  27. They said the same thing about cell phone numbers. by khasim · · Score: 1

    This page intentionally left blank.

  28. Re:Build-your-own systems are starting to look goo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    then why can't i install linux on my ipod 3g nano...

  29. Re:Build-your-own systems are starting to look goo by aeoo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Probably meant as a joke, but this is very profoundly insightful from a spiritual point of view. This is in essence what spiritual adepts in many spiritual paths will do. The "physical" lock-in is happening in your own mind at a very deep level. It is non-trivial to overcome it.

  30. Counterexample by dallaylaen · · Score: 1

    lock-in = subscription based business model...

    Right, that's why Microsoft typically offers a subscription, while most linux companies only charge once per copy.

    --
    WYSIWIG, but what you see might not be what you need
  31. Paging C.A. customers! by oldhack · · Score: 1

    Well, not exactly lock-in, but stories of CA gouging their customers are stuff of legend - so I'm told. Wanna chime in here?

    --
    Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
  32. That's not what the article is about by gelfling · · Score: 1

    It's about on-board security sub applications or attributes which are specific to that application or that applications vendor. Such as MS applications using MS specific DRM. Is this a bad thing? I don't think that it is.

  33. Re:Build-your-own systems are starting to look goo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What about an "Alternate Universe." Or a simple "Reality Distortion Field."

  34. Re:They said the same thing about cell phone numbe by misleb · · Score: 1

    That was just a technical challenge. An email address has the provider right in the freakin' address. That said, you can get portable email addresses. You just need your own domain and you can have it hosted anywhere that hosts domains.

    -matthew

    --
    "THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS ONLY ME." -Death
  35. just say no: a pledge by zermous · · Score: 1

    just make a pledge: As a software developer or pointy haired type, I swear that I will never make a decision that will actively add lock-in into my product without making a tangible improvement to the product. This pledge does not obligate me to go out of my way to embrace standards or interoperability but just to do my citizenly duty to play fair with my users and competitors and to refuse to kill standards or interoperability that naturally find their way into the software. Freedom is good, bottom line be damned, and I will fight for it.

  36. Re:Let me guess by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    "...Or that he knows the state of Schroedinger's cat?"

    Maybe he does, but even Schneier cannot *make* the cat choose a state!

  37. BUSINESS = LOCK-IN by v(*_*)vvvv · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This has nothing to do with IT. Business is all about lock-in. If this comes as a surprise, you don't know the basics of business. You can do it "cleanly" and morally and ethically through things such as superior customer service, superior product functionality, and superior value for the price. Or, you can be "dirty" and use things such as technology and software barriers, vendor pressure tactics, bias contracts and user agreements, biological mechanisms such as addiction, and lobbying and manipulating the law. The stock market, our way of evaluating and rewarding corporate perforance, unfortunately does not make any distiction between these clean and dirty lock-in tactics. The system's only real requirement is that we obide by the law and don't get caught cheating. Given this requirement, companies gain enormous advantages by being dirty. In this free capitalist market, those with advantages ultimately win and they get heavily rewarded for it. The result? Hello Microsoft, hello Nike, hello Exxon Mobil, hello Time Warner AOL Cable. And just when you thought Apple was gaining marketshare, what a surprise, we talk about how they are just getting better at being dirty.

    Eventhough the government talks about being all for fair competition in an open market, their behavior and the law which they help create says otherwise. Intellectual property law, anti-trust law, and much of the consitution is comprised of lock-in catalysts. Mergers and aquisitions heavily support lock-ins as well.

    Whether you are selling iPhones at Apple Stores or hotdogs at an intersection in Manhattan, you are still trying to lock-in your customers. And the better you do it, the more the United States of America will reward you.

    1. Re:BUSINESS = LOCK-IN by gujo-odori · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Is superior customer service, superior functionality, and superior value for price really lock-in? I work for a company that provides all three of those (our product is expensive, perhaps one of the most expensive in our market sector, but it's still superior value for price) and we have very low customer churn because our customers love us and tell us so all the time. They stay with us because they wan to; the nature of our product is such that it could be ripped out and replaced with a competing product (or a combination of open source ones) at any time. What keeps our products in place are the same three things that get them there in the in the first place: superior service, superior function, and superior value. Our customers are loyal - very loyal - but they are not locked in.

  38. What's so sad about lock-in... by Kjella · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ...is that it works. I don't know how many times I've heard the argument about going with all Microsoft or all SAP or all this and that because it's so hard to make it work with everything else. You don't throw out the incompatible software, you buy more of it until you use it for things it's not suited for and has a hundred interfaces to other applications. And once you make yourself a little "mini-monopoly" with no real alternatives, they sure know how to gauge you. While there's plenty work left ahead, I think compatibility and multiple vendors will become the major advantages of open source.

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  39. Re:Build-your-own systems are starting to look goo by Red+Flayer · · Score: 1

    That's weird -- In my alternate Soviet universe, the microwave hose really banged up my wife's startup.
    Now our stock options are worthless.

    /Was gonna go with 'I started up my microwave and then banged my wife with a hose' but I thought better of it for some reason.

    --
    "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
  40. Re:Let me guess by mrsteveman1 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Where did you get this information? Quantum mechanics tells us that Bruce Schneier cannot be observed directly.....

  41. Re:Build-your-own systems are starting to look goo by rahmza · · Score: 1

    That's a shame. Maybe you should have intelligently designed it and avoided the bang altogether?

  42. complicated? by tfoss · · Score: 1

    Not really.

    -Ted

    --
    -=-=- Quantum physics - the dreams stuff are made of.
  43. WRONG! iPhone application signing key not leaked! by prxp · · Score: 2, Informative

    The key published in tuaw's erica sadun's blog post is NOT the iphone's application signing key (as wrongly infered by Scheneier).
    The key is actually an AES key for the DMG ram disk image file that is part of the iphone firmware update process. Nothing to do with application signing. The key doesn't even have enough size to be mistaken for an usable RSA key (I wonder if Scheier has noticed that).
    Anyone can check that out on the various iPhone hacking blogs (and also on the very same one that posted this key in the first place).
    People should get their facts straight before spreading misinformation.

  44. Re:They said the same thing about cell phone numbe by OECD · · Score: 0

    That was just a technical challenge. An email address has the provider right in the freakin' address.

    So that's your technical challenge. It shouldn't be much harder than managing phone numbers, which have your "geographic location" right in the freakin' number.

    --
    One man's -1 Flamebait is another man's +5 Funny.
  45. You jest, but by Burz · · Score: 1
    Recently I've compared MS sales force to Jehovah's Witnesses, but the reality is often worse than that and the following anecdote reminded me:

    Back in 1995 on a public list I wrote a message critical of Microsoft.

    They used their DevNet developer database to locate a colleague at my place of work through whom they applied pressure at senior management level, i.e. vailed threats to withdraw discounts etc., in an attempt to prevent further criticism from me.

    Fortunately, Microsoft's emails to management actually confirmed everything that I'd said was true. I still have copies with management's handwritten comments.

    At least I'm not paranoid anymore - I know what they'll do with all that information.
  46. Re:Symantec-- Instead of by davesays · · Score: 0

    For backups try Cobian. For ghosting try drivesnapshot.de Basically freeware, not perfect but better than symantec and free or almost for a school.

  47. Re:They said the same thing about cell phone numbe by suckmysav · · Score: 2

    You need to read up on how the internet naming works before you make such ridiculous assertions.

    --
    "You can't fight in here, this is the war room!"
  48. Re:They said the same thing about cell phone numbe by OECD · · Score: 1

    You need to read up on how the internet naming works before you make such ridiculous assertions.

    Yeah, because that's SO different from how telephony worked before they actually did solve that problem. I guess I should just not use my phone now, because I'm not in the area code it says I am.

    --
    One man's -1 Flamebait is another man's +5 Funny.
  49. Re:Monopoly is the goal of capitalism by evanbd · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Another contradiction of capitalism that is an observation in Marxist theory is the desire of an individual firm to pay its employees as little as possible, but that depends on well-paid consumers having enough money to buy their products.

    All that is is negative feedback. If you want to create a system capable of optimizing itself to changing conditions without a very complicated model and detailed control system (with attendant long, involved tuning process), be it an economy or a simple industrial process, you'll probably find it best to put multiple forces in place that oppose each other in such a way that they balance at an equilibrium point that's near the optimum. There is nothing "contradictory" about market forces being in opposition. One can argue about how well it works (imho, it clearly does a near-perfect job in some cases and an awful job in others), but as part of a design of an economic framework it's not at all clear it's a bad route to take.

    Seriously, try creating a *good* control scheme for a simple system that doesn't involve a negative feedback loop. Then consider how amazingly not simple an economy is.

  50. Re:They said the same thing about cell phone numbe by Kadin2048 · · Score: 2, Informative

    You need to read up on how the internet naming works before you make such ridiculous assertions. In the GP's defense, telephone numbers worked like that at one point, too. It was basically a hierarchical system, where all the numbers beginning with a certain exchange would be physically connected to that CO. It just would not have been possible to take the same number from one part of a city to another, because the infrastructure didn't support it.

    Telephone number portability only became possible when the telcos added an additional level of abstraction into the call-routing systems. This wasn't trivial -- the telephone switching system as it exists today looks almost nothing like the system that was around when the telephone numbering system was conceived and evolved. (Mechanical rotary switches that turned in response to the dial on your phone producing pulses; these switches cascaded, one after another, for each digit, routing the call.)

    You could probably get 'portable email addresses' with some sort of extension to DNS; basically allow DNS records for individual email addresses instead of just domains. It would be a weird use for DNS, thinking of it as we think of it now, and in fact it might overwhelm the current infrastructure, but it's not impossible. Just probably more trouble than it's worth.
    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
  51. Re:They said the same thing about cell phone numbe by suckmysav · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yeah, sure. What you are suggesting is that I should be able to move house from one country/city/town/suburb but still be able to receive the mail sent to my old home address*. It's an utterly retarded idea.

    When you use an @domain symbol your dns server directs the query to the server that is responsible for that domain. ie, the server operated by (or on behalf of) the owner of the domain.

    If you want email portability then you can register your own domain . It's really quite simple.

    If you don't want to do that then guess what, you can get an email address on somebody elses domain. If you choose to move from their domain you don't retain any rights to continue using a domain name that you don't own

    How is that difficult to understand?

    Honestly, sometimes I think we need a better class of geeks on slashdot. Is Digg down at the moment?

    * Yes, I realise that you can do a temporary mail redirect but this costs money and is very resource intensive. If *everyone* tried to do this in perpetuity then the system would be completely unworkable, both logistically as well as inuitively.

    --
    "You can't fight in here, this is the war room!"
  52. Re:They said the same thing about cell phone numbe by suckmysav · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I realise this, but there was one MAJOR difference. All phone numbers were owned by only a few telco companies and as such it was politically possible for them to be forced into providing cross provider portability or run the risk of losing their common carrier status ie licence.

    The domain system is much different. There are hundreds of thousands of domains owned by almost as many individuals and companies. It is not politically or technically feasible to force some sort of email portability across domains without changing the fundamental nature of how dns currently works.

    Why should I (as an email admin) be forced to allow people to use the domain name that I legally own for free? Am I required to maintain some sort of forwarding list on my mail server of all the people for which I am required to forward mail to? Do I do this for free? If my server crashes and the list is lost am I held legally liable? Who is responsible for tracking where email for my domain should go? Me? The government? Which government?

    Should the entire planets email-address-to-ip-address-cross-reference-table be stored in some central servers somewhere? Where? Who pays?

    It's a ridiculous idea.

    --
    "You can't fight in here, this is the war room!"
  53. Re:Monopoly is the goal of capitalism by khallow · · Score: 1

    What is termed "contradictions" here is merely conflicting interests. One of the nice properties of a market system is the ability to resolve these conflicts of interest via the market.

  54. yes by v(*_*)vvvv · · Score: 1

    Is superior customer service, superior functionality, and superior value for price really lock-in? I would say yes, you have managed to lock them in. You are leaving the gate open to allow them to leave at anytime, but I am saying lock-in is your goal as a business regardless . If a competitor comes along and uses dirty lock-in tactics, they will have an unfair advantage, and your company will face tough decisions. If a competitor comes along and does provide a superior product without any dirty tactics whatsoever, then you will still pretend to be the best company and not just fork over all of your client-base to make them happy.

    We could argue over the meaning of "lock-in", but utlimately whether it is willingful or unwillingful, locking your customers in is one of the bottomlines of any successful enterprise, and your company too is well aware of that, and is working hard to accomplish it.
    1. Re:yes by Tranzistors · · Score: 1

      Lock-in with gates opened wide? Sounds interesting.
      Ultimate goal of business is to get money (roughly), usually it comes from costumers. Thus having costumer is a good thing, locking in costumers is one way to do so. There are other ways to get/keep costumers, thus lock-in is not a primary nor secondary goal. As tertiary goal it can be omitted, for it contradicts other tertiary goal - getting new costumers.

      I have a vague feeling that vendor lock-in is only possible in low competition environment. This might be the reason MS is doing so well.

    2. Re:yes by gujo-odori · · Score: 1

      Under your seeming definition of lock-in, I'm locked-in by Coke Zero, because I like it better than Diet Coke or Diet Pepsi. All three of them are available for free in the coolers where I work, but somehow Coke Zero has me locked-in. Riiiiiiight.

      Or the fact that I use Kubuntu because I prefer it to other distros has me somehow locked in, even though I could wipe it out and install some other Linux distro (or even FreeBSD), boot it, and when KDE started I would be right where I left off, even down to having all the apps that were open in my last session automatically start again.

      When everybody but you talks about vendor lock-in, they are talking about a situation where a vendor creates structures and situations that, once you start using their product, it is difficult to move off of it again and use something else. Windows networking is like that. Using Outlook and Exchange is especially like that. There are credible alternatives to Outlook + Exchange today, some of which are probably better, and all of which are probably cheaper, but you hardly ever hear of anyone actually dumping Outlook + Exchange and moving to one of them. Why? Because even if the end result is superior, the move is sufficiently painful and expensive that most businesses won't try it. *That* is lock-in.

      When we say lock-in, we mean something that's a lot like being locked in a room. You can't get out if you want to. If I take a book, go into a quiet room, close the door, and sit down to read, I'm not locked in. I'm in there because I want to be.

      It's that way with me and Coke Zero. If Pepsi comes out with something better tomorrow, I can immediately switch.
      It's that way with me and Kubuntu. If I find a distro I like better tomorrow, I can immediately switch.
      It's that way with customers who aren't locked in, too. If another company comes up with a better combination of top customer service, functionality, and price, a customer can walk. We compete hard to make sure they don't want to, but they easily can.

      That's the difference between locked-in and not locked-in: you're free to leave and can easily do so.

  55. Open source vs. Closed source by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Open source promotes Competition.
    Closed source promotes Collusion.

  56. Re:As in...Lock-in Backfires by Technician · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Lock-in is anything that creates barriers to moving to a competitor.

    Often lock-in is the driving force to open standards and the proprietary vendors have to change or die. The most recent example of this that I can point to is the theatrical lighting industry. Martin, Strand, MSI, and other inteligent lighting manufactures all had their own standard for running lighting. Touring companies found it difficult to interface with all the lighting systems. A committie was formed to produce a standard that wasn't any of the already established standards to avoid any patent and royalty bias toward any one manufacture.

    The birth of the DMX-512 standard came out. Now it is almost impossible to sell any lighting system that doesn't support the standard.

    http://www.usitt.org/standards/DMX512.html
    "This standard is intended to provide for interoperability at both communication and mechanical levels with controllers made by different manufacturers."

    Almost everything now uses the new standard from Drama, Dance, and Club Nightlife. If you buy an intelligeht moving light, It's almost guaranteed to use the DMX-512 signal, even if the connector isn't the standard 5 pin XLR. An exception to the DMX standard is the one for architectural using multiple wall stations for building lights. Even these control systems often output DMX-512 signals to use standard dimmers.

    In some specialty fields some still try with something other than the standard. As an example the animated Christmas lights often use the Lights-o-Rama system which is incompatible with everything else.

    http://www.lightorama.com/

    It is a cheaper alternative with a lower cost per dimmer, but it is limited to dimmers only. It won't run all the disco and concert moving color changing lights. And of course you can only use their software and interface to run the dimmers.

    --
    The truth shall set you free!
  57. Don't like Ghost? by eknagy · · Score: 1
  58. Re:Build-your-own systems are starting to look goo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I find that copious amounts of has^H^H^Hmeditation makes it much easier...

  59. Makes sense if you're a capitalist by ajs318 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Product unreliability ordinarily doesn't benefit manufacturers, because most consumers are smart enough not to buy the same make next time; but the situation is inverted when the manufacturer of the unreliable products holds a monopoly. And sometimes it doesn't even need to be a full monopoly: you can have several players ostensibly competing in a free market. But that freedom is often just an illusion.

    Think about it: If John Thomas's Panasonic stereo breaks, and he already has lots of CDs, he might buy a Philips next time -- after all, it will plug into the same mains socket and play all the same discs. If John Thomas's Glow-worm boiler packs up in the middle of winter, he might replace it with a Worcester or Baxi boiler -- which will use the same gas and electricity, and plumb in just fine to his existing radiators and hot water system. If John Thomas's Ford Focus breaks down one time too many, he might trade it in for a Vauxhall Astra -- it will use the same fuel and can be driven on the same roads.

    But if John Thomas's Wii breaks, and he already owns several Wii games, he has precious little choice but to buy another one from Nintendo. The games may well have cost more than the console -- it would be a waste not to have anything on which to play them.

    Despite outward appearances, Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft aren't really competing in a free market; because their products are not interchangeable in practice -- unlike CD players, gas boilers or cars. Once you have invested in a game on one platform, it can only be used on that platform -- you can't replace your Wii with a PS3 and take your games across. And if you ask the vendors to replace your Wii games with PS3 equivalents, they'll laugh at you. (A store will probably exchange a few unopened games bought in ignorance as a gift for someone who has a different console than you thought; but even then it's technically ex gratia, not a statutory right.)

    And if John Thomas's copy of Microsoft Word pisses him off one time too many, and he has many documents already in .doc format that he needs to be able to access, he can't replace it with anything else and still be sure that his documents will render correctly. Even worse, if his sister Fanny buys a brand new computer that comes with a brand new version of Word, John's copy now most probably won't be able to read documents saved by Fanny in future (unless she saves them as an older version, which is deliberately made awkward and throws up dire warnings) -- so he is all but forced to buy his own new copy of Microsoft Word.

    --
    Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    1. Re:Makes sense if you're a capitalist by noidentity · · Score: 1

      Despite outward appearances, Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft aren't really competing in a free market; because their products are not interchangeable in practice -- unlike CD players, gas boilers or cars. Once you have invested in a game on one platform, it can only be used on that platform -- you can't replace your Wii with a PS3 and take your games across.

      So what's the solution, a requirement that there be only one model and version of the game console for all time? The best that can occur is for companies not to make the situation any worse, like making two video disc formats with comparable feature sets, though I guess it's pretty much that way these days with game consoles, where the processor power and graphics are much more similar than in past times.

    2. Re:Makes sense if you're a capitalist by danzona · · Score: 1

      I think that your analogy is not correct. I think that if you are going to say that a cars from different vendors use the same roads and gas, then you have to say that game consoles from different vendors use the same electricity and plug into the same TV.

      If you want to say that game consoles should have a unified playing format, then that would be like saying that cars should all use the same oil filter.

    3. Re:Makes sense if you're a capitalist by ajs318 · · Score: 1

      That'd be one way to do it. Another way would be to introduce compulsory and non-discriminatory licencing. That way, if Nintendo ever got a bit sloppy, somebody else would be guaranteed the right to make a console which could play existing Wii games. Not that anybody would be likely to at first, because the Nintendo brand is going to be all over the promotional materials -- there's being late to the party, and then there's the stragglers mistaking you for the cab they ordered. But a few stories of Wiis catching fire or blowing LOpTs in TV sets or freezing up in mid-game would stir up interest among third parties, and the "not buying the same make again" factor would work against Nintendo.

      I think the knowledge that a big enough balls-up could ruin them if they mishandled it would keep manufacturers on their toes. At the moment, there is little to no incentive for a monopolist not to exploit the very people who pay their wages. To my mind, the existence of that monopoly is a privilege -- and a privilege can be withdrawn if it is abused.

      In the software world, I think it would be enough to mandate the supply of Source Code with software. Probably not with distribution rights, but be brutally honest: the lack of Source Code hasn't really done much to cut down on piracy of Windows and Office. But a user's rights to inspect software they have bought and paid for, and to modify it so as to better suit their requirements, should be protected by law. The needs of the many (users) outweigh the whims and caprices of the few (vendors). It also creates a nice healthy secondary industry: third-party developers creating plugins for software to fix problems created by the vendors.

      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
  60. Re:They said the same thing about cell phone numbe by TheThiefMaster · · Score: 1

    Having your email address on your own domain can be considered the same as a POBox for post. People can send mail to you, even if you move, and they can't see where you REALLY live.

  61. Re:Monopoly is the goal of capitalism by Shadowmist · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What is termed "contradictions" here is merely conflicting interests. One of the nice properties of a market system is the ability to resolve these conflicts of interest via the market. Capitalism doesn't really solve the "low wage" vs "high consumer spending" contradiction it usually tries to defer the problem (much like the way US communities defer maintennce) by outsourcing the "low wage" to a country where everyone is poor and not counted on to spend the company's products and assuming that thier will be "high wage" buyers from somewhere else to be it's market. The inevitable problems arise when everyone has outsourced the same way and there simply isn't anyone left in the "high wage" category to buy the product. (it's an oversimplified argument, but the the fact that much of the American Rust Belt is indeed being left to rust illustrates the point.) Similarly ordered systems can decrease thier own internal entropy only at the cost of greater increased entropy outside the system. The American capitalist system has been running on the assumption that consumers will simply keep spending no matter what the situation. (As Bush urged Americans to do while gearing us to war, a total reversal on the personal belt-tightening and rationing Americans went through through the Great War), now being pressed agaisnt the wall, most Americans are finding staying in the mid-income lifestyle tough enough that they're pinching thier pennies and holding off thier luxury purchases just to pay rents, mortagages, utilities, and have enough left over to put food on the table, hoping to hell that no one in the family gets catstrophically sick.
  62. OS lock in by gizmod · · Score: 1

    Opensource applications aside. Isn't buying an OS sort of a locking too? I grant that alot of opensource software can be recompiled for a target OS, but what about closed source software? It really is a pity that languages like Java did not fully deliver to the expectations of freedom from OS lockin. Java free's you from vendor lockin when it comes to choosing databases, messaging servers and on the ODD occasion some rich client applications etc etc, (Eclipse comes to mind), but imagine a world where any app you wrote runs on any platform with no everheads.

  63. Re:Build-your-own systems are starting to look goo by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 1

    Ask these guys, they may be able to help. http://cymer.com/

  64. Re:Monopoly is the goal of capitalism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you want to create a system capable of optimizing itself ... you'll probably find it best to put multiple forces in place that oppose each other Yeah, like the carefully constructed "checks and balances" in the US Constitution. That's working soooo well 220 years later. <sarcasm />
  65. apple being arse holes by timthephoto · · Score: 1

    they are the worst offenders when it comes to proprietary file types, non-replaceable batteries and odd shaped plugs on hardware DON'T BUY MAC

  66. Re:They said the same thing about cell phone numbe by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

    Having your email address on your own domain can be considered the same as a POBox for post. People can send mail to you, even if you move, and they can't see where you REALLY live. Isn't that the ideal state?
    --
    The cesspool just got a check and balance.
  67. Re:They said the same thing about cell phone numbe by TheThiefMaster · · Score: 1

    Yes?

  68. Re:They said the same thing about cell phone numbe by sjames · · Score: 1

    Simple forwarding is not a good solution, but there are a few options. Simply carrying a .forward for a transitional period would help, and should be available for a reduced monthly fee (since it doesn't use zero resources, but also doesn't use as much as the 23 exabyte mailspool).

    The best solution might be if ISPs would willingly be the MX for a current customer's personal domain. Then when you change ISP, you update your domain record and your new ISP adds the domain to their cw file. The real difficulty might be having something like a readable email address that's globally unique, nodody wants their email address to be ghh3ycqyucbdd.email but there's a lot of john.smith out there.

  69. Bruce Schneier, Liability, and Lock-in by Schraegstrichpunkt · · Score: 1

    With enough lock-in, a company can protect its market share even as it reduces customer service, raises prices, refuses to innovate and otherwise abuses its customer base. It should be no surprise that this sounds like pretty much every experience you've had with IT companies: Once the industry discovered lock-in, everyone started figuring out how to get as much of it as they can.

    ... and if Bruce Schneier gets what he wants with liability legislation for software developers/vendors, then a big way of avoiding lock-in---free and open-source software---will cease being viable.

  70. Re:They said the same thing about cell phone numbe by misleb · · Score: 1

    That was just a technical challenge. An email address has the provider right in the freakin' address.

    So that's your technical challenge. It shouldn't be much harder than managing phone numbers, which have your "geographic location" right in the freakin' number.


    Sure, and while we're at it we can make my home mailing address portable.

    -matthew
    --
    "THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS ONLY ME." -Death
  71. Economics Analysis by PPH · · Score: 1
    I'd like to see some in-depth analysis of the economics involved in this. I've had experience with a couple of differing types of business and they don't seem to follow any sort of logic when looking at their IT systems at first glance.

    I have worked as a consultant for electrical utilities. On the surface, it would appear that these companies would resist IT lock-in because 1) as utilities, they have a natural barrier to competition built into the establishment of service territories, access to customers, etc. and 2) they have a compelling reason to interoperate efficiently with their neighboring utilities to ensure reliability and share best practices. Furthermore, utilities tend to be larger customers with knowledgeable staffs and (one would think) a better ability to influence vendors to their benefit. And yet, the IT systems they purchase tend to be some of the most proprietary, incompatible, poorly designed and unreliable systems I've seen. Look at the role that software has played in high profile outages like this one.

    I have also done some work for architectural and engineering firms. Here, one would expect to see healthier competition based upon proprietary technologies and practices. Competition is greater than in the utility business and, given the leverage a better and/or more efficient tools set could provide to improve profits and aquire more business, one would expect them to opt for proprietary solutions, NDA agreements, etc. Because these firms are smaller and have less leverage with large s/w vendors like AutoDesk and Microsoft, one would expect to see these vendors lock their customers in to a much greater degree and then, giver the customers motivation to build proprietary in-house processes and tools on top of these that cannot easily be moved to other platforms. But these businesses operate with pretty much the same s/w tools. And its not uncommon to see employees move from one job to another and bring customized macros, scripts and process knowledge from a previous employer to a new one and expect to plug them right into their new work environment.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  72. Re:They said the same thing about cell phone numbe by skintigh2 · · Score: 1

    Agreed. When my friend moved to a new home and wanted her mail, I told her she should create her own town with her own post office to handle mail portability for her. How difficult is that to understand?

    Have you ever moved to a new house? What is the first form you file at the post office? A mail forwarding form. But I suppose it's unreasonable to expect ISPs to keep up with the cutting edge technology implemented by the US postal service. Oop, though I turned sarcasm off.

  73. Re:They said the same thing about cell phone numbe by OECD · · Score: 1

    The best solution might be if ISPs would willingly be the MX for a current customer's personal domain. Then when you change ISP, you update your domain record and your new ISP adds the domain to their cw file.

    Thank you. That's the kind of thing I was thinking of. People around here can be a bit too concrete in their thinking.

    The real difficulty might be having something like a readable email address that's globally unique, nodody wants their email address to be ghh3ycqyucbdd.email but there's a lot of john.smith out there.

    True, but "JohnSmith.GobbledyGook.email" should be fine. It's relatively rare to actually manually enter an email address these days (at least in my experience.) Once it's in your address book, auto complete should relieve you from typing the whole thing out.

    Of course, there are a whole lot of other schemes that could more closely emulate the type of addresses we're used to. The point is that it isn't all that difficult a nut to crack.

    --
    One man's -1 Flamebait is another man's +5 Funny.
  74. Re:They said the same thing about cell phone numbe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Honestly, sometimes I think we need a better class of geeks on slashdot.

    These days, anybody who's read "Visual Basic for Dummies" thinks he's an elite programmer.

  75. Re:Monopoly is the goal of capitalism by khallow · · Score: 1

    Capitalism doesn't really solve the "low wage" vs "high consumer spending" contradiction it usually tries to defer the problem (much like the way US communities defer maintennce) by outsourcing the "low wage" to a country where everyone is poor and not counted on to spend the company's products and assuming that thier will be "high wage" buyers from somewhere else to be it's market.

    Global trade is not a requirement for capitalism. Neither does capitalism require someone to be poor in order for it to work. Basically, capitalism is just a trade system where people can own capital.

    The inevitable problems arise when everyone has outsourced the same way and there simply isn't anyone left in the "high wage" category to buy the product. (it's an oversimplified argument, but the the fact that much of the American Rust Belt is indeed being left to rust illustrates the point.)

    As I see it, why should obselete industries linger?

    Similarly ordered systems can decrease thier own internal entropy only at the cost of greater increased entropy outside the system.

    The Earth is not a closed system. It radiates considerable heat into space. That is your entropy sink for human society.

    The American capitalist system has been running on the assumption that consumers will simply keep spending no matter what the situation. (As Bush urged Americans to do while gearing us to war, a total reversal on the personal belt-tightening and rationing Americans went through through the Great War), now being pressed agaisnt the wall, most Americans are finding staying in the mid-income lifestyle tough enough that they're pinching thier pennies and holding off thier luxury purchases just to pay rents, mortagages, utilities, and have enough left over to put food on the table, hoping to hell that no one in the family gets catstrophically sick.

    No, it's always been run on the assumption that a society with trade and ownership of capital is better than one without. I think our experience confirms that assumption. Further, people are always concerned about their future. It is reasonable. Insurance, savings, and investments help address that.

  76. Re:They said the same thing about cell phone numbe by suckmysav · · Score: 1

    Umm, snail mail redirect costs you money. You don't get it for free. Most people only have their mail redirected for a short time to give them time to change their address registrations at all the places necessary. It doesn't go on in perpetuity.

    And guess what! You can do the same thing with your email address right now! All you need to do is pay your isp rental on your old email address and have them redirect it for you. It'd probably cost lest than the postal service redirect too.

    I'm sure you would be happy to do that? Or are you bitching because you can't get your email redirected for free?

    --
    "You can't fight in here, this is the war room!"