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Cracking a Crypto Hard Drive Case

juct writes "A label on the box reading 'AES' does not ensure that your data are protected. heise examined a hard drive enclosure with an RFID key that is typical of many similar products. They found that the 128-bit AES hardware encryption claimed in advertisements was in fact a simple XOR encryption that they were able to break easily with a known plaintext attack." The manufacturer of the drive examined has announced that the product is being retooled and will be reintroduced later this year, presumably with actual AES encryption.

238 comments

  1. Criminal prosecution? by palegray.net · · Score: 5, Insightful

    For God's sake, can't the company's executives be charged under a criminal statute? Fraud, anyone? I guess their next product will use advanced ROT13 encryption technology.

    1. Re:Criminal prosecution? by Nero+Nimbus · · Score: 5, Funny

      Hey, that's better than ROT26.

    2. Re:Criminal prosecution? by GaryPatterson · · Score: 4, Funny

      It'll be so good, it'll do ROT13 twice!

    3. Re:Criminal prosecution? by Brian+Gordon · · Score: 1

      inb4ROT52

    4. Re:Criminal prosecution? by the100rabh · · Score: 0

      My current Samsung drive already does that

    5. Re:Criminal prosecution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Company's executives rebuttal:
      "We guarantee that each byte is encrypted individually, but we don't guarantee that more than one of them is encrypted."

    6. Re:Criminal prosecution? by dbIII · · Score: 4, Funny

      It's not fraud if it's still AES. In this case AES stands for the claims which are Advanced Equine Stool.

    7. Re:Criminal prosecution? by mxs · · Score: 5, Insightful

      For God's sake, can't the company's executives be charged under a criminal statute? Fraud, anyone? AES was used /somewhere/.

      It's /never/ a good idea to rely on cryptographic features when you don't know exactly how they are implemented. A vendor telling you they use AES is completely and utterly worthless, and always has been. It's a nice buzzword people like to use.

      It's also NEVER a good idea to use any "crypto developed in-house". Manufacturers love to tell you since they developed it and their development is secret and such that their product is safe and secure, much more secure even since nobody knows how it works.
      Cryptologists laugh at those claims, and everybody else should, too. These non-encrypting devices are a good reason as to why they do so.

      If you want truly encrypted files and disks, don't rely on cheap external enclosures. TrueCrypt is not hard to use and offers a decent level of protection (forget Windows crypto, it's littered with backdoors unless configured JUST right, which is not an easy task and definitely not default). Under linux, it's decidedly easy to use AES encryption on block devices.

      I guess their next product will use advanced ROT13 encryption technology. For good measure, they'll apply it twice -- after all, twice is better than once.
    8. Re:Criminal prosecution? by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 5, Funny

      It'll be so good, it'll do ROT13 twice!

      Hah! That doesn't compare with DOUBLE-XOR encryption! :D

    9. Re:Criminal prosecution? by techno-vampire · · Score: 2, Funny

      Maybe they can can get real technical about it and use ROT 39.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    10. Re:Criminal prosecution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Double-ROT-13 is funny
      Quadruple-ROT-13 is twice as funny
      Sextuple-ROT-13 is thrice as funny, and gets a two bonus points for the 's-e-x' string in it
      Octuple-ROT-13 is twice twice as funny, and gets a bonus point for sounding a bit like the word 'octopus', which has 'p-u-s' in it, which sounds a bit like 'pussy', which is a synonym for 'vagina', which is related to 'sex'
      Decuple-ROT-13 is twice plus thrice as funny
      Duodecuple-ROT-13 is twice thrice as funny

      After that it just gets lame.

    11. Re:Criminal prosecution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Heck, even my fifteen-year-old Western Digital drive does that, and with no loss in performance!

    12. Re:Criminal prosecution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why don't you just buy one then sue for fraud? Maybe no one really cares that much. If you care so much, do something about it. -- Chloe

    13. Re:Criminal prosecution? by pipatron · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is, of course, also the reason why you should never trust any closed-source products to do anything important. You have absolutely no clue about what it does and how it does it, no matter what it claims to do.

      --
      c++; /* this makes c bigger but returns the old value */
    14. Re:Criminal prosecution? by Workaphobia · · Score: 1

      > It's also NEVER a good idea to use any "crypto developed in-house". Manufacturers love to tell you since they developed it and their development is secret and such that their product is safe and secure, much more secure even since nobody knows how it works.
      > Cryptologists laugh at those claims, and everybody else should, too. These non-encrypting devices are a good reason as to why they do so.

      Indeed, the only purpose for which this kind of thing should ever be considered is when your threat model says it's not worth having security against anyone with even a mild motivation. I once came across a certain dongle-based DRM/antipiracy solution for a piece of software I was working on. The system was bottom-dollar to be sure - I'm fairly certain that most of its functionality was implemented in its drivers, not in hardware - but it was better than nothing. It's just that the incremental improvement of having very weak obscurity instead of having no protection at all, is so much more justifiable than the improvement of good, rock solid crypto over weak obscurity.

      --
      Evidently, the key to understanding recursion is to begin by understanding recursion. The rest is easy.
    15. Re:Criminal prosecution? by TubeSteak · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Hardware crypto, such that key authentication/management is done without any computer interaction, means I don't have to worry about the security of the machine I'm using and it means I can use secure storage on a locked down box that does not allow software to be installed.

      If you want truly encrypted files and disks, don't rely on cheap external enclosures. TrueCrypt is not hard to use and offers a decent level of protection People want portable hardware solutions.
      Stop suggesting software and give us viable (ie secure) hardware alternatives.
      What are the not-so-cheap external enclosures?
      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    16. Re:Criminal prosecution? by lawrencebillson · · Score: 1

      Like with DES; double ROT13 produces weak cyphertext. You really want to go with triple ROT13.

    17. Re:Criminal prosecution? by pipatron · · Score: 4, Informative

      Hardware crypto, such that key authentication/management is done without any computer interaction, means I don't have to worry about the security of the machine I'm using

      Wrong. If the machine you are using is compromised, anyone with access to it can access your data as soon as you unlock it, either with your physical key, or with a password. Doesn't matter if you use software or hardware encryption. If your text editor can read the file on the disk, so can any other program on the computer.

      --
      c++; /* this makes c bigger but returns the old value */
    18. Re:Criminal prosecution? by sotn3m · · Score: 1

      What do you mean by: "configured JUST right"?

      If it's littered with backdoors, can configuration change anything?

    19. Re:Criminal prosecution? by jmv · · Score: 4, Funny

      I do double-xor with a one-time pad. I've even figured out a way to do what without having to give the one-time-pad to the recipient, so I guess it counts as asymmetric cryptography.

    20. Re:Criminal prosecution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TrueCrypt is decidedly shitty to use if you use any other Linux than Ubuntu.

    21. Re:Criminal prosecution? by Cheesey · · Score: 1

      But wait! Is that stronger? Is ROT13 a group? We may never know...

      --
      >north
      You're an immobile computer, remember?
    22. Re:Criminal prosecution? by pyite · · Score: 4, Funny

      Is ROT13 a group? We may never know...

      After much work, I have proved that ROT forms a group under functional composition. I shall call it "the rotation group." This comment field, however, is simply too small to contain the proof.

      --

      "Nature doesn't care how smart you are. You can still be wrong." - Richard Feynman

    23. Re:Criminal prosecution? by somersault · · Score: 1, Insightful

      That's why I always switch off the driver aids when driving my car and my fighter jets - if I haven't seen the source, then I'm damned if I'm going to trust some little computer to keep me alive.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    24. Re:Criminal prosecution? by TheVelvetFlamebait · · Score: 4, Funny

      Can you please repost your comment in plain text? Most of us can't be bothered decrypting your message.

      --
      You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
    25. Re:Criminal prosecution? by mrbluze · · Score: 1

      People want portable hardware solutions. Stop suggesting software and give us viable (ie secure) hardware alternatives.

      The crypto solution in OS X is a practical model. Linking the folder tree encryption with the standard login password is good (without the loss of the GUI). If the solution was applied to Linux and was open-sourced, it would be no biggie to use an RFID tag or some device instead of a password. Perhaps at the loss of the RFID (person walks away), the device could lock or something.

      As for 'hardware', realistically speaking I think it's false security if only the external hard-drive is 'secure'. Wherever the person plugs it into can be compromised. Therefore every system the person uses must be trusted, which means it might as well contain the necessary software to decrypt the drive contents, which means you don't need a hardware alternative if you are serious about security.

      --
      Do it yourself, because no one else will do it yourself. [beta blockade 10-17 Feb]
    26. Re:Criminal prosecution? by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      For good measure, they'll apply it twice -- after all, twice is better than once.

      Its no joke. The IT group where I work have failed to provide a low latency link to a new system and proposed a compression box to install in the link. When I complained that this wouldn't work they suggested putting a second compressor in series to make the most of the bandwidth.

      And yes I know that latency has little to do with bandwidth. Thats a different story.

    27. Re:Criminal prosecution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TrueCrypt is not hard to use and offers a decent level of protection (forget Windows crypto, it's littered with backdoors unless configured JUST right, which is not an easy task and definitely not default).


      What about using Bitlocker under Vista with a tpm 1.2 chip? I thought that was supposed to be secure.
    28. Re:Criminal prosecution? by FelixGordon · · Score: 1

      My counter product will boast a guarantee that:

      "Every bit is encrypted individually, and we guarantee that every bit is encrypted."

    29. Re:Criminal prosecution? by garutnivore · · Score: 2, Funny

      Hmm... after that you are inducing bit rot.

    30. Re:Criminal prosecution? by garutnivore · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Open source is better than closed source for security code but it is not a silver bullet. The idea is that you want to have as many objective and capable coders able to examine the security code. That way, weaknesses in the code or shady things like back-doors are likely to be spotted and publicized. Closed source creates a significant obstacle against that examination. Open source does not create the obstacle but even without obstacle to examination you have no guarantee that objective and capable coders will actually examine the code.

    31. Re:Criminal prosecution? by alexgieg · · Score: 5, Funny

      Octuple-ROT-13 is twice twice as funny, and gets a bonus point for sounding a bit like the word 'octopus', which has 'p-u-s' in it. . .
      And tentacles.
      --
      Conservatism: (n.) love of the existing evils. Liberalism: (n.) desire to substitute new evils for the existing ones.
    32. Re:Criminal prosecution? by xSauronx · · Score: 2, Interesting

      (forget Windows crypto, it's littered with backdoors unless configured JUST right, which is not an easy task and definitely not default). care to cite a source? i know a couple of people who would vehemently argue that windows crypto is very secure indeed and would be interested to read more about it.

      --
      By and large, language is a tool for concealing the truth. -- George Carlin
    33. Re:Criminal prosecution? by duncan3dc · · Score: 1

      Wow, thanks for clearing up the difference between closed & open source for us. So many of us have been in the dark for too long!

    34. Re:Criminal prosecution? by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Funny

      You'll see that used a lot for encryption with the Hentai crowd.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    35. Re:Criminal prosecution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A vendor telling you they use AES is completely and utterly worthless, and always has been. It's a nice buzzword people like to use. No, it is a recognized encryption standard with enough strength to garner NSA approval for use in their systems. Products like this are the EXACT reason why the Cryptographic Module Validation Program (CMVP) was created by NIST and the CSEC to test modules for FIPS 140 compliance. The program/standard was designed to ensure that government agencies requiring cryptographic protection for sensitive data were getting what was being advertised. This means that the cryptography being used was actually the cryptography being advertised. There are also additional requirements that must be met, but those are not immediately pertinent to this discussion.

      Every product that is properly validated under FIPS 140 must include an approved cryptographic function. One such option available for encryption is AES. AES is rather common with over 700 validated implementations. I do not think it is unreasonable to expect that something that says it is using AES based encryption actually be using it. If you are every worried about whether or not something you want to use is actually correctly implementing AES, I guess you have two options: 1) use open-source applications/appliances and review the source yourself OR 2) look to see if the implementation was tested.
    36. Re:Criminal prosecution? by Svartalf · · Score: 1

      I strongly suspect that they KNEW that it wasn't even remotely encrypted with AES. Using AES "somewhere" doesn't
      get them off the hook for fielding it and labeling it with "secured with AES" when it only uses AES for a handshake
      on the chip and then the thing uses some really stupid encryption for the rest of the drive. And, I don't buy the
      "misleading labeling" either- in my not so humble opinion, their engineers are not terribly competent or they knew
      that this chip didn't do what they wanted to claim and then used it anyway at management's insistence, to shave
      pennies off their BOM. Happens ALL the time in the entire industry.

      --
      I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
    37. Re:Criminal prosecution? by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      I think my HDD uses this technology.

    38. Re:Criminal prosecution? by ThinkingInBinary · · Score: 2, Informative

      His point was not the difference between open- and closed-source software but that, just because people can look at the source of open-source software and look for backdoors does not guarantee that someone will find one, if it exists.

    39. Re:Criminal prosecution? by SQLGuru · · Score: 1

      Here's my open source crypto code. Feel free to apply it as many times as needed to make you feel secure.

      Foreach( bit b in file f )
            echo b to file o

      And if you don't like that one, you can try one of these:

      Foreach( byte b in file f )
            echo 256 xor b to file o

      or

      Foreach( byte b in file f )
            echo 256 - (as int) b to file o

      Layne

    40. Re:Criminal prosecution? by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      If your text editor can read the file on the disk, so can any other program on the computer. Which is exactly why I always rely on the following for security:

      cat /dev/random >mysecretfile.txt

      Because if you're text editor can't make sense of it, then nobody can!

    41. Re:Criminal prosecution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please end your tags before replying.

    42. Re:Criminal prosecution? by mxs · · Score: 1

      but it was better than nothing. It's just that the incremental improvement of having very weak obscurity instead of having no protection at all, is so much more justifiable than the improvement of good, rock solid crypto over weak obscurity. "Better than nothing" ? I'd go so far as to say "worse than nothing". Not only is it ineffectual and easily cracked, but also does your paying customerbase have the hassle of trying to support the kludge. I'd feel royally pissed if something stopped working just because I no longer have a parallel port on my computer, for instance, or am running inside a VMWare machine ... So pissed, in fact, that I'll go out of my way to avoid products by that company in the future.
    43. Re:Criminal prosecution? by SQLGuru · · Score: 1

      Maybe they ordered a grey-market version. People in the US aren't allowed to export certain implementations of encryption, so if you get one from a US supplier, maybe you get the secure version, but if you order from overseas you get the export friendly version. :)

      Layne

    44. Re:Criminal prosecution? by mxs · · Score: 1

      Hardware crypto, such that key authentication/management is done without any computer interaction, means I don't have to worry about the security of the machine I'm using and it means I can use secure storage on a locked down box that does not allow software to be installed. That's what you think it means for you. It could also mean an instruction in the CPU that does AES encryption (such as VIA has in their CPUs).

      People want portable hardware solutions. What I think you meant to say was people want secure solutions.

      Stop suggesting software and give us viable (ie secure) hardware alternatives. I can suggest software all day if I like if it gets the job done better than the crap that vendor was selling. Which it does, no questions asked.

      What are the not-so-cheap external enclosures? Depends on what your actual needs are, and good luck researching it (there is so much snake oil out there it's pretty hard to find decent stuff).
      You could, of course, build your own system. Portable computers based on Eden (i.e. rather small form factor) could be built and configured to your liking, then bolted for added physical security. To make that thing truly good, you'd need to spend a fair chunk of change on a decent cryptologist and engineer, though. The question to ask would be whether your data warrants that level of protection. If it does, do it right, don't rely on crap some low-level sales dweeb reads from his brochures. That's how these hardware enclosure manufacturers got duped.
    45. Re:Criminal prosecution? by pnewhook · · Score: 4, Funny

      I agree completely - open source or nothing. But you would not BELIEVE the hassle I get checking into an airline when I refuse to let them close the door and take off until I've inspected all of their flight code. Bunch of unreasonable pricks.

      --
      Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
    46. Re:Criminal prosecution? by somersault · · Score: 3, Funny

      Tell me about it. I accidentally bricked an AIBO when reverse enegineering the OS to make sure that it wasn't going to try and chew on anyone's ankles or purposely try to trip them up. The kids were crying and bitching for weeks, but it was obviously for their own good.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    47. Re:Criminal prosecution? by mxs · · Score: 2, Informative

      From the horse's mouth, actually : http://www.microsoft.com/technet/archive/security/news/efs.mspx?mfr=true

      It's a very spinny article, of course.

      The algorithms uses are, by and large, peer-reviewed ones believed to be implemented securely (i.e. 3DES, AES, etc), so thsoe people you know would probably be right on that front (though I obviously can't check the source code myself; this is not an empty "open source is better than X" proclamation, but rather a cold, hard fact in cryptology : if the source is not there to be examined, you can't be sure that there aren't implementation weaknesses that could be exploited. In this field, this is major; for instance, if by some unthought-of chain of events the cleartext encryption key ever gets swapped to disk, the game is over, no need to break the strong crypto itself ...)

      By default, EFS stores a copy of the encryption key for the administrator of the machine (or domain administrator if in a domain). In the latter case the recovery key does not reside on the local machine, in the former case it does. This is default behavior. While it's documented, it really should not be DEFAULT behavior. http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;223316&sd=tech lists some best practices you should follow for EFS. The first best practice starts with the words "Teach users to". This is a bad idea, no matter what follows.

      As I noted, it's /possible/ to make EFS reasonably secure.

    48. Re:Criminal prosecution? by Schraegstrichpunkt · · Score: 1

      For God's sake, can't the company's executives be charged under a criminal statute? Fraud, anyone? I guess their next product will use advanced ROT13 encryption technology. Why? Because you saw "AES" and assumed it was secure against unspecified attacks? AES is a block cipher, not a hard drive cryptosystem. If you want LUKS (which isn't perfect, but is probably the current state of the art; see the paper New Methods in Hard Disk Encryption), then you have to ask for it.

      There is some responsibility on the part of users to ensure that computer systems actually perform the tasks they expect them to. "Uses AES somewhere inside this box" is not the same thing as "provides confidentiality and non-malleability of the bulk data against adaptive chosen ciphertext attack up to 2**128 operations and 2**64 blocks of ciphertext".

    49. Re:Criminal prosecution? by Dramacrat · · Score: 0

      One XOR is good, but TWO is better! Cackle.

      --
      There are over 36 million lines of COBOL code in the world, and they are all raping children.
    50. Re:Criminal prosecution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is; assuming you don't have Windows Logon credentials that are easily guessable. For example, we use Smart Card logon only so it is two-factor. Assuming the people follow the corporate policies and don't leave the card right with the machine, it is difficult to crack a Smart Card only solution with BitLocker. The attacker would usually need to get the 48 character BitLocker recovery key in order to unlock the drive. AES 256 with block diffuser.

    51. Re:Criminal prosecution? by kernel_pat · · Score: 1

      I can see the PC World advert now:

      "This hard drive comes with the new "ROT 3132 X-TREME" encryption technology."

    52. Re:Criminal prosecution? by Sheafification · · Score: 1

      Open source does not create the obstacle but even without obstacle to examination you have no guarantee that objective and capable coders will actually examine the code. Sure you do. You pay them to. If you're really serious about cypto you'd be foolish to trust a system without having an expert or two audit your code. Ideally this is what you'd paid the closed source vendors to do, but they, of course, have a vested interested in making their product look good.
    53. Re:Criminal prosecution? by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      for instance, if by some unthought-of chain of events the cleartext encryption key ever gets swapped to disk, the game is over, no need to break the strong crypto itself
      If you are serious about protecting your data you should really be using encrypted swap or no swap at all anyway.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    54. Re:Criminal prosecution? by Bender0x7D1 · · Score: 1

      I would recommend reading Ken Thompson's lecture: "Reflections on Trusting Trust" - A PDF can be found here.

      Spoiler: If you didn't build it/write it/create it yourself you can't trust it. Oh, and you could have made a mistake so you can't trust that either.

      --
      Reading code is like reading the dictionary - you have to read half of it before you can go back and understand it.
    55. Re:Criminal prosecution? by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 2, Informative

      You are mistaking AES for FIPS-140.

      The disk encryption product being discussed would not pass FIPS-140, yet they claimed the use of AES and implied that this meant it was secure.

      The comment "A vendor telling you they use AES is completely and utterly worthless, and always has been. It's a nice buzzword people like to use." carries a lot of truth. A vendor that knows what they are doing will know what to tell another security expert sufficient to convince him of the security of the system or algorithms. This would typically include the key management functions, data encryption functions, data integrity functions and compliance to specifications such as FIPS-140.

      --
      Evil people are out to get you.
    56. Re:Criminal prosecution? by MungoBBQ · · Score: 1

      Hey, I live in Sweden and my alphabet has 29 letters, you insensitive clod!

    57. Re:Criminal prosecution? by Cairnarvon · · Score: 1

      If your text editor can read the file on the disk, so can any other program on the computer.

      This is not true for any halfway decent cryptosystem, but the general point still stands (and if anything, this article proves most users wouldn't be able to tell a decent cryptosystem from a bullshit one anyway).
      Too many people just think cryptography automatically translates to security, so they can just ignore common attack vectors. The false sense of security it gives them can leave them as (or more) vulnerable as (than) users who've never even heard of cryptography (still a majority, unfortunately). Educating users is important.

    58. Re:Criminal prosecution? by EdIII · · Score: 1

      I 2nd that notion. I have noticed an increasing trend where you cannot trust the devices produced by manufacturers. You can't trust them to do what they say they will do, and you cannot trust them with respect to the code that may be running.

      The malware in the digital picture frames? That is particularly concerning since the malware present on it was very difficult to detect and clean. I am sure there are other examples. The memory and processors that are in even the most simple devices now can be easily used to accomplish malevolent goals. I realize that may seem to be offtopic, but it has to do with our ability to trust devices coming various manufacturers.

      This specific device was unique, in that it was impossible to determine if the encryption was actually being performed or not, without cracking open the device. We had to trust this manufacturer.

      If this keeps happening it will affect competition and innovation, at least with respect to my wallet, since I will have to be very cautious in dealing with younger corporations that do not have a strong reputation in the field.

      I think you are certainly on the right track. There needs to be prison time for the company execs, or anybody else culpable within the company. For products produced outside of the US, there needs to be strongly enforced bans on these products similar to the USDA recalls of tainted beef. Best Buy, Fry's, etc. need to told by an authority to forcefully take the products from the shelfs.

    59. Re:Criminal prosecution? by davewalthall · · Score: 1

      Of course, when was the last time that you built your compiler from scratch. I hand-wrote your own. In binary. Without any tools. After all, all of the tools that you use to compile open source were compiled with a compiler that [were compiled with a compiler, etc.] that you didn't inspect. So the original person could have put in code that would do *anything*, including self-propagation. See Thompson's article "Reflections on Trusting Trust": http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html

    60. Re:Criminal prosecution? by mcrbids · · Score: 0

      Hey, that's better than ROT26. So old, so classic, this joke defies time in geek circles. But, alas, highly inaccurate. For example, how would you encrypt the following string with ROT26?

      aAbBcC

      I don't think you can - there are 26 letters in the alphabet, but there are 52 if you include upper and lower case. So... good for a joke perhaps, maybe a Lucky Charms magic decoder ring, but actually not accurate.

      Guess it's like watching a TV episode where, at a dramatic moment, the techie shrieks: "Get that firewall up NOW!" with lots of sparks and flashing screens.... but why can't I expect better from a tech blog?
      --
      I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
    61. Re:Criminal prosecution? by mxs · · Score: 1

      If you are serious about protecting your data you should really be using encrypted swap or no swap at all anyway. Quite true. Though even if you use encrypted swap, it's generally a bad idea to have your crypto keys reside in non-memorylocked pages. If that is the case, you can generally assume that the implementation you are looking at was probably not engineered by somebody with a clue of what they were doing, and other holes/oversights are likely (I'd argue that if you haven't thought about memory-locking the pages containing the crypto-keys, you probably haven't even heard about timing attacks ... Or given thought to rotating the keys through various places in memory periodically :)
    62. Re:Criminal prosecution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sir, suck

    63. Re:Criminal prosecution? by mr.witherspoone · · Score: 1

      I for one welcome our Octuple-ROT-13 overlords.

    64. Re:Criminal prosecution? by lgw · · Score: 3, Informative

      NTFS encryption allows encrypted files to be decrypted by either the owner or a designated "recovery account". This makes good sense in a business setting, and is not per se a bad design. However, the default recovery account on a system that doesn't belong to a domain is the local Administrator account. This was a horrible design mistake because all local Administrator accounts are equilavent in Windows - you can move the hard drive to any system where you know the local Administrator password and "recover" the encrypted files.

      NTFS encryption is secure if properly configured (or at least any weaknesses aren't yet known), but it's totally insecure by default, and this lack of security is not at all obvious.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    65. Re:Criminal prosecution? by DAldredge · · Score: 1

      When is the last time you reviewed the firmware in your system and the devices connected to it?

    66. Re:Criminal prosecution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interesting Windows tidbits in my Slashdot?

      It's more likely than you think!

    67. Re:Criminal prosecution? by palegray.net · · Score: 1

      There is some responsibility on the part of users to ensure that computer systems actually perform the tasks they expect them to. There's a lot of responsibility on the part of users to ensure these systems perform as advertised. Your position does nothing to reduce the negligence of the manufacturer in this case.
    68. Re:Criminal prosecution? by EkriirkE · · Score: 1

      *WHOOSH*

      --
      from 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
      to 45 2F 6E 40 3C DF 10 71 4E 41 DF AA 25 7D 31 3F
    69. Re:Criminal prosecution? by Workaphobia · · Score: 1

      Oh, you greatly misunderstand. When I speak of good and bad, I'm talking about from the company's perspective.

      > Not only is it ineffectual and easily cracked,

      That's just it though, it's far more difficult to copy something if it has to be cracked first, even if the crack is absolutely trivial aside from its obscurity. Remember that we're not talking about technical users - a big fat comment in the exe version information explaining how to bypass it would probably go unnoticed.

      > but also does your paying customerbase have the hassle of trying to support the kludge.

      Again, company's perspective, not customer's. This is why it sucks for the customer to be in a small market.

      > I'd feel royally pissed if something stopped working just because I no longer have a parallel port on my computer, for instance, or am running inside a VMWare machine ... So pissed, in fact, that I'll go out of my way to avoid products by that company in the future.

      It's actually pretty standard when you're looking at very specialized, high cost, low volume professional software. I'd be pissed too, but I'm not the one that has to run it.

      My example was about a DRM system, so obviously it was never meant to be strong in any of the areas you mention. The point was that utter crap encryption is far better at serving the purpose of real encryption, than is making no effort to even pretend to be secure. Of course, in general, the danger is that users would act differently if they knew they weren't really secure, but that's not applicable to this case.

      --
      Evidently, the key to understanding recursion is to begin by understanding recursion. The rest is easy.
    70. Re:Criminal prosecution? by cduffy · · Score: 1

      Has nothing to do with the cryptosystem in use -- we're talking about block-layer encryption. If your entire block device is unlocked, it's unlocked, no matter how strong the cryptography may be.

      Now, I'm sure it's *possible* to have keys owned by a specific process which are accessible all the way down to the block layer of the filesystem (and to prevent any processes not having a valid key from being able to make any syscalls against that FS), but I don't know of anyone implementing that [as part of a block-layer disk encryption product]. If your definition of "halfway decent" excludes every product available, it's set a little high, isn't it?

    71. Re:Criminal prosecution? by Schraegstrichpunkt · · Score: 1

      I don't know about this case in particular, and I'm sure the courts will sort it out if there was any fraud, but only the user is in the position to assess what they need in a cryptosystem (or any kind of software, for that matter). Until manufacturers start claiming specific security against specific kinds of attackers, there's no reason to start blaming them for not meeting certain users' unspecified needs.

      It's like blaming Microsoft if you lost money because some bank decided to use Excel for their accounting. Banks are supposed to do decimal rounding in specific ways, and if they didn't bother to check the behaviour of some piece of software before they started to use it, they are the only ones at fault. The alternative is to hold software vendors liable for every possible misuse of their products, which would mean that everyone who doesn't need certain features or reliability factors would have to pay for the few who do (and it would raise huge barriers to entry into the market for software).

      It's unethical and deceptive, but if psychics, accupuncturists and homeopaths can get away with what they claim, why should these manufacturers be treated any differently?

    72. Re:Criminal prosecution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about criminally prosecuting the cabal that took the shredder out of Konqueror in kernel 2.6. The supposed justification given by these sock puppets of microsoft was that encryption was the golden parachute that would save businesses from being hacked and ruined by digital plunderers. They were good liars. Or maybe they just had the control and Bill Gates money in their pockets. Now comes SCO back from the dead as well courtesy of Allaweed and his arab money army. Are the two related, for when SCO and the combination of Arab and microsoft money bribe enough judges maybe linux owners will have their pooters filched and searched. It would behoove Gates people to have a large group of compliant pooters with the microsoft friendly 2.6 kernel that are easy to search so that their foolish owners could be more easily robbed.

    73. Re:Criminal prosecution? by andersjoh · · Score: 1

      We definately need more tentacle based encryption :p

    74. Re:Criminal prosecution? by mrbluze · · Score: 1

      I know. twas a typo missing a /

      --
      Do it yourself, because no one else will do it yourself. [beta blockade 10-17 Feb]
  2. How about a software solution? by palegray.net · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Would something like TrueCrypt, where you can easily look at the source, be a better solution? At the very least, it could avoid problems like these.

    1. Re:How about a software solution? by kcbanner · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Its not the same thing. We're talking about encryption in the device (apparently), so its done before it hits the computer.

      --
      Obligatory blog plug: http://www.caseybanner.ca/
    2. Re:How about a software solution? by palegray.net · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm aware it's not the same thing :). While I understand the performance benefits of doing the heavy computation with specialized hardware, I'm questioning the wisdom of trusting any embedded encryption platform that isn't easily audited for correct operation. What about devices that actually perform encryption using the algorithms claimed, but the implementation of the crypto routines contains a flaw that isn't easily detected? What do you do about it when your organization has a few of them in production? Closed platforms make me nervous when security really matters.

    3. Re:How about a software solution? by fm6 · · Score: 1

      Sure, open-source encryption softwareis more trustworthy than closed source. But this is a hardware solution.

    4. Re:How about a software solution? by kcbanner · · Score: 1

      I agree completely. I would rather have the computer do the stuff in software as well, proprietary encryption is like proprietary hardware raid, its just Not Safe(TM).

      --
      Obligatory blog plug: http://www.caseybanner.ca/
    5. Re:How about a software solution? by davmoo · · Score: 5, Interesting

      There's another disadvantage to hardware encryption like this product, even if it worked correctly, and why I also favor something like TrueCrypt (which is infact what I use) even if it might make a bit more work for the computer. The maker says "this is our special chip, and here's the source for our firmware for you to inspect"...now, how do you *know* that's really the firmware that's on that chip? Very few of us are in a position where we could take that source and make our own chip. In a situation where I want to be assured of security, I'm going to not only use TrueCrypt, I'm going to compile it myself.

      --
      I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
    6. Re:How about a software solution? by blackwing0013 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Call me back when they have released something based on version 5.0 that "works" with Linux. Right now, the newly released 5.0 series is broken on Linux. It will cause your machine to lockup on most kernel versions used by Linux distros. Apparently, according to the authors of Truecrypt, they require you to upgrade to the latest release of the Linux kernel, which may not be an option for most of us.

      Secondly, even if you were able to make it work the Linux kernel on your machine, the new FUSE-based Truecrypt 5.0 series is only 1/20-1/10 of the speed I get from the 4.x series. From 20-40 MB/s, now I only get 1-5 MB/s.

      I am now considering to switch to dmcrypt+luks.

    7. Re:How about a software solution? by cheater512 · · Score: 1

      That just means we need more open source hardware. :)

    8. Re:How about a software solution? by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      Would something like TrueCrypt, where you can easily look at the source, be a better solution? At the very least, it could avoid problems like these. Since we are talking about en-/de- cryption inside the hard drive case - no, not really.
      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    9. Re:How about a software solution? by palegray.net · · Score: 3, Informative

      Take a look at this publication on an open source cryptographic coprocessor. Sorry about the PDF format.

    10. Re:How about a software solution? by jibjibjib · · Score: 1

      Isn't encryption outside the case actually more secure?

    11. Re:How about a software solution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'm going to not only use TrueCrypt, I'm going to compile it myself.

      That won't help you. You need to read Reflections of Trusting Trust by Ken Thompson: http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html

    12. Re:How about a software solution? by Per+Wigren · · Score: 1

      Yes, it is, but that was not the point.

      --
      My other account has a 3-digit UID.
    13. Re:How about a software solution? by Workaphobia · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I don't know what's in the book the AC above recommended, but it's true, compiling TrueCrypt yourself adds no security over accepting a binary from the official website (I'd assume it's them you'd be getting builds from, since it is in fact a windows program). If you're paranoid enough to not trust the developers, then you're paranoid enough to require hiring a trusted party to basically recreate the software for you.

      --
      Evidently, the key to understanding recursion is to begin by understanding recursion. The rest is easy.
    14. Re:How about a software solution? by palegray.net · · Score: 1

      How do you trust the trusted third party? Dennis Nedry was paid lots of money to build Jurassic Park's island management system, and just look at how well that turned out ;).

    15. Re:How about a software solution? by Workaphobia · · Score: 1

      Trust is a technical word; you trust someone by simply *doing* so. I believe it's the DoD that defines it a trusted party as "one that can break your security model", and I think most other organizations use a similar definition if it's not an outright industry standard. This means that you simply define your security model such that you don't worry about the third party, and *in theory* you're alright.

      Also, I'd recommend auditing all your code to avoid raptor attacks by removing gotos.

      --
      Evidently, the key to understanding recursion is to begin by understanding recursion. The rest is easy.
    16. Re:How about a software solution? by palegray.net · · Score: 3, Funny

      I followed your advice and dug out a hard drive full of BASIC code from 15 years ago... I replaced all the GOTOs with GOSUBs and feel much more secure!

    17. Re:How about a software solution? by evanbd · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Especially since compiling the code yourself is completely sufficient to prevent security flaws. Erm. You were planning to audit it, right? Since everyone knows that's sufficient.

      Computer security is hard. Doing it right is really hard.

    18. Re:How about a software solution? by pla · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Call me back when they have released something based on version 5.0 that "works" with Linux.

      Why would they bother, except as a sort of read-only compatibility mode to recover Windows volumes?

      Under Linux, you already have stable loopback device support. You can literally encrypt (or compress, or snoop, or whatever filter you can think of applying to block-device traffic) anything, without needing another tool to do it.

    19. Re:How about a software solution? by Lars+T. · · Score: 1

      Isn't encryption outside the case actually more secure? Yes, but it is also pretty much useless for a portable drive that is supposed to be pluggable into just about any computer - but only usable when the RFID key is present.

      To the OS this is just an USB2 drive, unless the key is missing - then it's a brick, also to anyone who "finds" it. Or it would be, if it had decent encryption.

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    20. Re:How about a software solution? by Viol8 · · Score: 2, Informative

      "Right now, the newly released 5.0 series is broken on Linux. It will cause your machine to lockup on most kernel versions used by Linux distros."

      While they're hardware may be faulty an OS should NOT lock up just because its gets unexpected signals/data down a USB cable. Sounds to me like there was a major issue with some or other linux driver.

    21. Re:How about a software solution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > they require you to upgrade to the latest release of the Linux kernel, which may not be an option for most of us.

      How is a bug in the Linux kernel a problem with TrueCrypt? They tell you that if you use a buggy kernel, don't blame TrueCrypt, blame the kernel. And if you can't upgrade the kernel? Well, answer yourself. Troll.

    22. Re:How about a software solution? by Teun · · Score: 4, Informative

      Nothing stops you from using version 4.3. Even when you think you need a GUI, there are several available.

      In the mean time I'm quite happy with the new 5.0.

      --
      "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
    23. Re:How about a software solution? by Chops · · Score: 2

      FWIW, dmcrypt+luks is what the Debian installer uses if you ask for an encrypted disk, and for me it's worked a treat so far.

    24. Re:How about a software solution? by JasonTik · · Score: 1

      It is less likely for the developers to put a backdoor in the source version than the binary version. There, it is nearly undetectable, and for a product like truecrypt, you really cant expect that noone will see the source and raise a huge public stink about it. Xchat, I believe, distributes windows binaries made from different and unpublished source?

    25. Re:How about a software solution? by Eivind · · Score: 1

      You would bother if, for example, the use-case was transporting files securely between different computers, some of which run windows.

      It's quite convenient to partition a usb-device in 2 parts, one tiny holding TrueCrypt in "traveller mode" and one larger partition encrypted with TrueCrypt.

      That was you can read and write the data on any system you care to, and still are reasonably secure against data-loss should you, for example, lose the usb-gadget during travel, or similar.

    26. Re:How about a software solution? by Fweeky · · Score: 1

      Why read-only? Maybe you want to share a crypted volume between machines, not exactly an exotic use-case.

      Does Linux's own block device crypto support plausable deniability?

    27. Re:How about a software solution? by pnewhook · · Score: 1

      Closed platforms make me nervous when security really matters.

      I guess you've never seen the report abut those anti-theft devices in cars. Despite all of the advanced electronics and prtections schemes, all were easily bypassed in seconds (by a professional) EXCEPT the one where it was a simple hidden switch wired in series to the ignition.

      Even though it was simple, hiding the details of how the car was disabled was the most effective. I'd argue the same can often be said for user level encryption.

      --
      Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
    28. Re:How about a software solution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > I am now considering to switch to dmcrypt+luks.

      Do it! LUKS is an easy-to-implement (not that users need implement anything), open (http://luks.endorphin.org/spec) (emerging/possible) standard. I use dmcrypt+luks on the swap in every linux box I setup, and on countless usb-keys/sd cards/usb hdd's... works excellently for me.

    29. Re:How about a software solution? by SirTalon42 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Trust Crypt uses a kernel module (entirely software solution). It isn't a USB device.

    30. Re:How about a software solution? by Cairnarvon · · Score: 1

      The Linux version of TrueCrypt doesn't do hidden volumes, so that point is moot, at least for the time being. It also doesn't do whole disk encryption.

    31. Re:How about a software solution? by Rival · · Score: 1

      Your argument is fundamentally flawed. Normally I'd shake my head and laugh, but what you propose is dangerous for two reasons:

      1.) Many people believe TV "documentaries" are valid, correct and complete. This is especially easy when the subject is one with which you are unfamiliar.

      2.) It is tempting to make specious jumps in logic, e.g., "If something works in one context, why not another?" This isn't helped by the media's drive to sensationalize information with tantalizing "what ifs".

      I would strongly advise you (and anyone else who is susceptible to your argument) to read up on Kerckhoffs' Principle. Wikipedia's article is an excellent summary.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerckhoffs'_principle

      Hopefully this will clarify the problems with your argument.

    32. Re:How about a software solution? by roystgnr · · Score: 1

      You need to read Reflections of Trusting Trust by Ken Thompson

      Or to go to the extreme, read "They" by Robert Heinlein. It's a short story not a paper, but it gets the point across that you can never be mathematically certain you're safe from all possible observers. After realizing that, you'll have a choice: You can decide to give up entirely. Or, you can realize that eliminating one simple attack vector (such as publishing source code that is only a part of a compromised binary) is still a good thing, even if it doesn't stop other incredibly complicated attack vectors (such as secretly compromising gcc binaries, along with the binaries of every other C compiler that might be used to initially bootstrap gcc's source code, in such a way as to make the result capable of inserting compromises in as-yet-unwritten encryption products).

      The lock on your front door is vastly easier to crack than an open source compiler would be. But I'll bet you still use it; protection doesn't have to be invincible to be helpful.

    33. Re:How about a software solution? by sktea · · Score: 1

      Even though it was simple, hiding the details of how the car was disabled was the most effective. I'd argue the same can often be said for user level encryption.

      Flawed analogy, I think.

      I'd be interested to know whether the inline switch was part of a commercial anti-theft device, or installed by an amateur? If the latter, your example would seem to support the preference for D.I.Y.

      --
      Sometimes I have to say to hell with it and just eat my jellybeans.
    34. Re:How about a software solution? by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      Auditing can work if the auditors know that they must find any security problems UNDER PAIN OF TORTURE.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    35. Re:How about a software solution? by pnewhook · · Score: 1

      There's nothing wrong with my argument, it was perfectly valid. The point was that with every other anti-theft device it was known how to bypass it (nothing is perfect). The theif would look at it and say 'ah - this is manufactured by XYZ, I can bypass it by doing ABC'. With the hidden switch, the car would not start, he couldn't find an anti-theft device so he had to give up. The hidden switch was the most secure.

      Another example. You have a door to a building. The thief walks up to the lock, looks at the manufacturer of the lock and knows how to pick it. A second building he cannot find the door as it is hidden - may not even be locked. Obviously the first building is getting broken into.

      My Wi-Fi is secure because (partially because) I don't broadcast my SSID. If I broadcast it, then someone intent on hacking me would have a place to start. They cannot see the SSID and therefore don't even know I'm there.

      I'm not saying obscurity is the best form of security, but making everything public does not automatically make everything secure either. Sometimes hiding the implementation is valid for security.

      --
      Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
    36. Re:How about a software solution? by pnewhook · · Score: 1

      I'd be interested to know whether the inline switch was part of a commercial anti-theft device, or installed by an amateur?

      Neither - it was a switch installed by a mechanic. A switch is too cheap to be sold commercially - noone would buy it, even though you can show it is the most effective at preventing theft.

      Actually they did say the absolute best defence is removing your spark plug when you leave your vehicle. Not many theives carry around spare parts.

      --
      Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
    37. Re:How about a software solution? by lgw · · Score: 1

      Most thieves are not experts, and rely on a screwdriver and a hammer to defeat car security systems. A 14-year-old booster won't have any tools to deal with a remote antenna, but would grope around for any kill switch within easy reach.

      Similarly, your building example is completely flawed - eith way the thief throws a rock through the window! Lock-picking is a job skill that requires dilligence and patience to acquire, and locksmiths ear a decent living. Criminals throw rocks instead.

      If you're buying a computer security system, you have a choice between believing the sales brochure, or buying something checked by a third party. Which sounds more secure to you?

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    38. Re:How about a software solution? by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      Not to mention that LUKS is easier to configure and works beautifully out of the box on any distro I use.

      If you use Linux and haven't configured LUKS yet, give it a try, its fun. I automatically configure all my swap partitions as LUKS volumes with a randomly assigned key at boot (one of the LUKS options) so unless you can figure out what the never-saved key was after a power outage, that swap data is gone forever, like the RAM it emulates.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    39. Re:How about a software solution? by DMUTPeregrine · · Score: 1

      People will compile themselves and check to see if the self-compiled exe file has the same hash as the downloaded one. That said, someone could exploit your compiler and have it add vulnerabilities.

      --
      Not a sentence!
    40. Re:How about a software solution? by pnewhook · · Score: 1

      Most thieves are not experts, and rely on a screwdriver and a hammer to defeat car security systems

      I'm not talking about the average joy rider. Most theives of high end cars are experts and can steal any car without putting a scratch on it.

      If you're buying a computer security system, you have a choice between believing the sales brochure, or buying something checked by a third party. Which sounds more secure to you?

      If you are a corporation buying a security system, would you buy homemade crap cobbled together by a bunch of 14 year olds, or would you buy something created by a professional corporation that hires experts and supports their products if something goes wrong?

      --
      Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
    41. Re:How about a software solution? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And here is something for you to read.

    42. Re:How about a software solution? by lgw · · Score: 1

      Most thieves of high end cars use a tow-truck. Security guards will open the garage for you, and the police won't bat an eye as the alarm sounds as your drive down the block. It's also the only safe way to avoid damaging the car. It's such a problem that Ferrari has elaborate anti-tow measures (if you tilt the car without entering the security code *first*, you basically have to throw the car's computer away, which means the car is only good for parts at that point).

      I'd buy a (computer) security system that's FIPS-140 certified, if it mattered (as I'd be required to by law). For home, I use products like TrueCrypt, which are actually reviewed by experts and proven in communist dictatorships, not some proprietary horseshit with a good 4-color glossy brochure. Who cares if it's supported if it doesn't actually provide any security?

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    43. Re:How about a software solution? by vranash · · Score: 1

      At the risk of asking a really stupid question:
      Couldn't you just lift the car straight up, using some form of hydraulic jacks, slide it on a flatbed, and drive off with it that way?

      Certainly take a few minutes longer than the tilt and haul method, but no tilt, no dead ECU?

    44. Re:How about a software solution? by lgw · · Score: 1

      Probably, but you'd need very special-purpose equipment, and people would start to wonder WTF you were doing, and it would probably take a while. A good tow-truck driver can suck a car onto the back of a tilt-bed and be "gone in 60 seconds".

      Anyhow, constructing complicated special equipment to steal somthing is a movie-plot threat, not a real life threat.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    45. Re:How about a software solution? by pnewhook · · Score: 1

      Couldn't you just lift the car straight up, using some form of hydraulic jacks, slide it on a flatbed, and drive off with it that way?

      Actually a friend of mine had his high end sports car stolen in exactly that method. They used a forklift (like the kind that Home Depot uses on the back of flatbed trucks for deliveries), picked up the car ot of the driveway and drove off. They are so good at it they never set off the impact or proximity sensors (the kind that go off with a single finger touch). Broad daylight and literally gone in under a minute.

      The police said theives that use this method are shopping for specific makes - theft to order. They then take the car back to the shop where they can take the time to disable the security and fake a new VIN for the buyer. There's really no defence other than making sure the car is in a garage or behind a locked gate.

      --
      Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
  3. So what happens... by TubeSteak · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...when you lose the RFID fob?

    Does the mfg keep a list of serial #s and RFID keys so they can mail you/thief a replacement?

    --
    [Fuck Beta]
    o0t!
    1. Re:So what happens... by palegray.net · · Score: 5, Funny

      All the fobs are encoded with the special key: QWERTYUIOP1234567890. Don't worry though, the key is copyrighted internationally and cannot be used without proper authorization. Devilishly ingenious, those wily engineers...

    2. Re:So what happens... by kcbanner · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I think this is actually true in some cases. I once worked on some 2.4ghz radios from a certain vendor, and if you forgot the admin password you could expose them to the net and they could "unlock" them (YIKESOMG). They also had a version where you gave them the MAC of the radio and they gave you a special "unlock" password over the phone. Yea. It wasn't even random either, it was an english word iirc. The world of proprietary network gear = ugh. I prefer building them myself using Soekris or similar.

      --
      Obligatory blog plug: http://www.caseybanner.ca/
    3. Re:So what happens... by mxs · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ...when you lose the RFID fob? Glad that you asked. Thank you for being our customer. Please go download http://vendor/recover.exe. It will recover your data on your harddrive. This is a feature. Thank you for your business.

      Does the mfg keep a list of serial #s and RFID keys so they can mail you/thief a replacement? Quite honestly the entire concept is flawed. a.) if you loose your key and somebody else can furbish another one, your crypto is broken by default. You cannot trust it to secure anything at all. b.) RFID IDs as keys ? Sure, everybody knows RFIDs can ONLY be read at a distance of several centimeters. Right ? RIGHT ?

      The question you should be asking is "If somebody copies my key, can I change the lock ?"

    4. Re:So what happens... by gandhi_2 · · Score: 3, Interesting
      laugh it up fuzzball...

      er wait, sorry. well some companies REALLY do rely on copyright for security. An example is the ASSA key and lock company. They make some really nice keys, but what makes them hard to copy? Copyrights on the "code" represented by the teeth on the keys.

      This is totally different than a patent on a real cool key, it's a copyright on the "data" that essentially is the serial number for sales account, dealer, region, and country.

      Their whole selling point is that no one can copy a key if it's copyrighted. I mean, shit...it worked for other industries... (:

    5. Re:So what happens... by TheThiefMaster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How about: "If somebody copies my key, will I even know?"

    6. Re:So what happens... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if you loose your key and somebody else can furbish another one

      Somewhere, an English teacher is crying and doesn't know why.

    7. Re:So what happens... by pnewhook · · Score: 1

      Sure, everybody knows RFIDs can ONLY be read at a distance of several centimeters. Right ? RIGHT ?

      Depends on the technology used - some are several meters, while others require near contact.

      --
      Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
    8. Re:So what happens... by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      For typical RFIDs this is a very valid concern. On the other hand, if you had a powered RFID that contained a processor you could make it secure. The RFID could contain an SSL cert and the drive could issue a challenge against it.

      Better still if you had enough bandwidth you could establish an SSL connection between drive and tag, and the decryption could take place inside the tag - so that the key never leaves the tag.

      A less bandwidth-intensive solution might be to encrypt individual blocks on the drive with separate keys, and then the tag could authenticate access to each block based on some set of rules and deliver keys for only those blocks as they are needed. I'm sure some PK-based algorithm could be designed that would let the hard drive ask the fob to allocate a new key to encrypt a block of data, and then the fob could return an encrypt-only key, and sufficient metadata to store with the block so that the fob could later determine what the decrypt key is without needing too much internal storage.

      There are lots of possible solutions out there. It just requires people to insist that their vendors not be lazy...

    9. Re:So what happens... by mxs · · Score: 1

      Sure, everybody knows RFIDs can ONLY be read at a distance of several centimeters. Right ? RIGHT ? Depends on the technology used - some are several meters, while others require near contact. According to the SPECS. The "require" would be VERY loosely defined as "require if you use a reader that is built to spec". However, the proverbial bad guys really don't care about the spec. It's a running gag to claim that an RFID tag of any sort can ONLY be read from several centimeters away -- since it's simply not true. Shielding can improve this a bit, but quite honestly, I wouldn't trust it if my life depended on it.
    10. Re:So what happens... by pnewhook · · Score: 1

      Screw specs - I'm talking about implementation. An RFID system is basically just an antenna - it needs to receive energy from the reader to power itself, then will broadcast the id. The size of the RFID tag is directly related to how far away it can be activated and read from.

      I don't care what you use, a 2mm chemical RFID tag will not broadcast several metres away in a practical application.

      --
      Tesla was a genius. Edison however was a overrated hack who liked to torture puppies.
    11. Re:So what happens... by mxs · · Score: 1

      Screw specs - I'm talking about implementation. An RFID system is basically just an antenna - it needs to receive energy from the reader to power itself, then will broadcast the id. The size of the RFID tag is directly related to how far away it can be activated and read from.

      I don't care what you use, a 2mm chemical RFID tag will not broadcast several metres away in a practical application. We're not talking about a practical day-to-day application here, though. We are talking about a malicious attacker who has probably figured out how to do targeted radio-waves and who might have very sensitive (and expensive) equipment at their disposal.

      I'm aware that it becomes exponentially more difficult to do this the farther you are away, but assuming it's impossible is folly.
  4. Leaves Software Based Encryption Relevant by jeremiahbell · · Score: 2, Informative

    Yet another reason to encrypt your entire hard-drive with Linux in addition to hardware based encryption. Wish I knew enough to tell if it was working, though. Sure without the keys my hard-drives seems unreadable, but I am not a crypto expert.

    --
    "Where have all the good people gone?" - Jack Johnson
    1. Re:Leaves Software Based Encryption Relevant by palegray.net · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Defining security is the process of calculating that magical combination of (1) the value of what you're protecting, (2) what is costs you to protect (encrypt) it, and (3) the computational cost a determined adversary would have to expend to break the crypto. Determining an adequate level of protection for personal data is left as a personal exercise.

    2. Re:Leaves Software Based Encryption Relevant by rgaginol · · Score: 1

      Actually, I'd disagree - if this attitude is taken, what then stops the software from using a simple XOR encryption? Good encryption works on transparency of the algorithm and security in the private key. It seems sensible that any creator of this hardware should trust their software by releasing the source code for inspection.

      And pay for real developers... those thousand monkeys which made this were actually tasked with creating the next season for Firefly.

  5. This has to be illegal by pembo13 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This can't possibly be legal. Even the CEO should have an idea if one of their newest product does some highly technical thing which it advertises as a major feature. I don't expect him/her to know how AES works... but he should at least be sure that it is working on the drive. I'm sure his pocket change could hire a contractor to test this.

    --
    "Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
    1. Re:This has to be illegal by Mike1024 · · Score: 2, Funny

      the CEO [...] I'm sure his pocket change could hire a contractor to test this.

      I'm not sure the $20 Chinese-made USB hard drive caddy market has produced many millionaire celebrity CEOs :)

      Michael

      --
      "Goodness me, how unlike the FBI to abuse the trust of the American public." -- The Onion
  6. No thanks by Phyrexicaid · · Score: 1

    The manufacturer of the drive examined has announced that the product is being retooled and will be reintroduced later this year, presumably with actual AES encryption.
    Fool me once, shame on you.
    Fool me twice, shame on me.
    --
    The meme is dead, long live the meme!
    1. Re:No thanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's "Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me... can't get fooled again."

      Fool.

  7. Trust by Mikey-San · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The manufacturer of the drive examined has announced that the product is being retooled and will be reintroduced later this year, presumably with actual AES encryption.

    Trust is a precious resource that you must cultivate; it's not a boomerang. Never risk throwing it away.

    --
    Mikey-San
    Karma: +Eleventy billion (mostly affected by watching Celebrity Jeopardy)
    1. Re:Trust by Agent.Nihilist · · Score: 3, Funny

      Have you ever used a boomerang before?
      Someone usually ends up catching it with the back of their head.

      I think trust IS a boomerang.

    2. Re:Trust by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yea, it is so!

      The precious resource of trust can only be grown slowly, fed by the nutrients of honesty, the rains of commercial and/or interpersonal interaction, and the sun-like rays of consistency. Like the noble crops of wheat that adorn the fields of the Great Plains, it is only finally harvested in the autumn of our lives. But, unlike those nutritious grains, its wholesomeness fills the belly of our souls every day of our lives.

      Nay, trust is _not_ a boomerang.

    3. Re:Trust by Bob+Cat+-+NYMPHS · · Score: 1

      Could you report this on reddit so I can upvote it?

    4. Re:Trust by Yetihehe · · Score: 1

      The REAL australian aboriginal boomerangs never return. Because they are embedded in someone's chest...

      --
      Extreme Programming - Redundant Array of Inexpensive Developers
    5. Re:Trust by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Funny

      So the analogy is flawed. Boomerangs are not a tool for protection but for cracking.

      Guess the Germans are going to outlaw them in a bit.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    6. Re:Trust by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trust is a precious resource that you must cultivate; it's not a boomerang. Never risk throwing it away.
      Confucius say: He who go to bed with itchy ass, wake up with smelly finger.
  8. get creative by ILuvRamen · · Score: 1

    You can never really trust any vendor about any product. For something this important, do it yourself. Rig your drive to explode if the case is opened without flipping the secret switch on the bottom hehehe. Of course, you'd have to have a really secure OS then too.

    --
    Google's Super Secret Search Algorithm: SELECT @search_results FROM internet WHERE @search_results = 'good'
    1. Re:get creative by iminplaya · · Score: 2, Funny

      Rig your drive to explode...

      In today's post 9/11 world, "self destruct" might be more politically correct.

      --
      What?
    2. Re:get creative by aproposofwhat · · Score: 1
      Something like MaxOSX?

      Gotta protect yourself against Humungus!

      --
      One swallow does not a fellatrix make
    3. Re:get creative by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Nice idea, but it severely limits its portability. For example, you can't board a plane with it anymore.

      Or, well, you shouldn't. For your own safety.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  9. XOR encryption can be good by corsec67 · · Score: 4, Informative

    XOR doesn't immediately mean that it is a crappy form of encryption. One Time Pads can be a very good form of encryption, if the pad is generated correctly and used only once. But, that isn't very useful for encrypting a hard drive. It looks to me like the "encryption" in the box was just a 512 byte key used like a OTP for each sector, which is trivial to break, as the article says.

    Stream Ciphers also use XOR, but are much more convenient to use and could very easily be used to encrypt a hard drive.

    --
    If I have nothing to hide, don't search me
    1. Re:XOR encryption can be good by RupW · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Stream Ciphers also use XOR, but are much more convenient to use and could very easily be used to encrypt a hard drive. The problem is that very few stream ciphers allow you to quickly seek to an arbitrary point in the stream - so unless you just want to read the entire drive sequentially you're SOL.

      The only exception I've read about is SEAL but IIRC that's still patented by IBM.

    2. Re:XOR encryption can be good by kiltyj · · Score: 5, Informative

      To enforce parent's point, many (if not all) of the best modes of operation (CCM, etc) for block ciphers like AES use XOR -- it would be silly to think of cryptography without XOR.

      It is also true that one can use AES (ignorantly) in a way that allows decryption as described in the article. Using Electronic codebook (ECB), for example, with the same key for each block, would provide no security beyond what would be provided by a reused OTP. Sadly (though obviously insecure), this is still technically using AES as a block cipher -- it's just using an insecure mode of operation. My first thought was that the manufacturers used ECB, or a similar insecure mode of operation (trusting the claim of using AES).

      From reading the article, though, it seems the manufacturers even admitted only using AES "when saving the RFID chip's ID in the controller's flash memory" and that "actual data encryption is based on an algorithm developed in-house." Just goes to show that if tried-and-true algorithms / ciphers are available, you should NEVER have to develop your own.

    3. Re:XOR encryption can be good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Much more convenient to use. Security is the antithesis of convenience. And since hard drives already handle data in blocks (either sectors or clusters depending on the level of abstraction you're writing software for) it should be no more convenient to use a block cipher than a stream cipher.

    4. Re:XOR encryption can be good by Woek · · Score: 4, Informative

      XOR is not an encryption method, it's just a binary operation. It's what you XOR your data with that determines if your encryption is good or not. That's what is the problem in this case.

    5. Re:XOR encryption can be good by JohnFluxx · · Score: 1

      If it did let you seek to an arbitrary point, then wouldn't it be a block cipher rather than a stream cipher, by definition?

    6. Re:XOR encryption can be good by RupW · · Score: 1

      If it did let you seek to an arbitrary point, then wouldn't it be a block cipher rather than a stream cipher, by definition? I'm not sure what you're getting at - by what definition?

      As I understand it, a block cipher is a transform of clear text X to some ciphertext Y. X will always encrypt to Y for a given key value. You use tricks like CBC with a random IV to make sure that attackers can't exploit that identity.

      A stream cipher is a pseudorandom function that you combine with your cleartext in some way, e.g. xor, to encrypt it. X will encrypt to Y1=X+C1 at a given point in the stream and at Y2=X+C2 to a different point in the stream for random values C1 and C2 generated from a given key value.
    7. Re:XOR encryption can be good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      most things i've seen work on a sector basis and each sector is encrypted with a feedback variety of AES. Sector to sector there is no "stream"/continuity, but within a sector, they are.

    8. Re:XOR encryption can be good by Xenna · · Score: 1

      You could use a one-time-pad like device with Crypto-RAID (patent applied for). One disk contains the key and the other contains the cyphertext. One is useless without the other. You'd get in trouble once you start updating files because with a true OTP you should never reuse the key.

      X.

    9. Re:XOR encryption can be good by Migraineman · · Score: 1

      The ECB mode of AES is nothing like a repetitive block XOR. The "reused OTP" block encoding is very susceptible to plaintext attacks, and is trivial to decode. AES in ECB mode is a mathematical data transformation that has dependencies on both the key and the data. It's deterministic, in that the same data/key pair will produce the same output, but it's quite resistant to plaintext attacks. If you "salt" the data with a small bit of random information, you'll eliminate the deterministic output liability. You can't run AES in the chaining mode on a hard drive due to the random-access nature of the media.

      I've worked with AES for several years now, including embedded implementations on PIC 16F microcontrollers. It's a pretty phenomenal algorithm. I'd use an ECB implementation over a short-block OTP (i.e. 2kB) any day.

    10. Re:XOR encryption can be good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or any blockcipher in counter mode. For block X the key is E(X, key),which
      allows quick seeking and has the same operation for encryption and decryption.

    11. Re:XOR encryption can be good by kiltyj · · Score: 1

      You are completely correct. I definitely goofed in saying that ECB would "provide no security" beyond a OTP. Please mod parent up.

      It still is important to note, however (and Migraineman, correct me if I'm wrong in all that follows), that there are ways of using AES which are much less secure than others, and therefore an implementation -- even if genuinely using AES as a block cipher -- can still have flaws. This is even more likely if an "in-house" mode of operation is used.

      ECB was a bad example for this particular situation, especially given the requirement of random access. When a method using chaining is possible/practical, however, such a mode of operation is preferable to ECB, as ECB can reveal something about the plaintext. (See, for example, the Tux photo example here)

      Thanks for the correction, Migraineman!

    12. Re:XOR encryption can be good by Migraineman · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it's the random access requirement of the hard drive that imposes a significant limitation on what you can do. ECB has inherent limitations in that it's deterministic - if you send the same data/key pair, you get the same output block. That provides information to an attacker. If you use "salt + ECB," you can deprive an attacker of information. Chaining is definitely much more secure, especially when you may be subject to a man-in-the-middle attack. Chaining really works well in a telecom environment where you're streaming data from one place to another. You don't have the random access issues there.

      Selecting an encryption method is always a compromise. You need to balance resources (time, money, etc.) against operation (latency, key management, intended users.) If you're looking to export a product from the US, including strong AES encryption will get you hassle regarding ITAR. Yes Virginia, encryption algorithms are considered munitions by the US government. The optimist in me would like to think that in-house crypto solutions are implemented to avoid ITAR issues, and not that someone "knows a better solution."

    13. Re:XOR encryption can be good by kiltyj · · Score: 1

      If you're looking to export a product from the US, including strong AES encryption will get you hassle regarding ITAR. Yes Virginia, encryption algorithms are considered munitions by the US government. The optimist in me would like to think that in-house crypto solutions are implemented to avoid ITAR issues, and not that someone "knows a better solution." Very interesting stuff. Santas, and all!
    14. Re:XOR encryption can be good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Salsa20, a candidate in the eSTREAM competition, has this property, as does any block cipher used in CTR mode.

      However, you still need to avoid reusing keystream bytes when overwriting blocks.

    15. Re:XOR encryption can be good by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      Well use a write-once versioning filesystem and change the OTP when you apply the diffs.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    16. Re:XOR encryption can be good by wirelessbuzzers · · Score: 1

      If it did let you seek to an arbitrary point, then wouldn't it be a block cipher rather than a stream cipher, by definition? If it let you seek to an arbitrary point, it would be a pseudorandom function. A block cipher is more: it's a pseudorandom permutation, and one whose inverse is efficiently computable. It's also less, in that the block size needs to be large enough for the amount of data you're encrypting. For instance, you shouldn't use Blowfish in counter mode to encrypt a hard drive, because its block size is too short and an attacker is likely to be able to learn (a tiny amount of) information about your disk's contents, regardless of the key length.
      --
      I hereby place the above post in the public domain.
  10. so close by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You *almost* had it correct. Here's a link to the proper syntax.. as read by a man with degrees from both Yale and Harvard

  11. MOD PARENT UP by chebucto · · Score: 3, Insightful

    TFA says the chip manufacturer was misleading, implying that AES was used for all data when in fact it was used for the key.

    That said, the case manufacturers should have tested the product themselves. They should at least offer returns / refunds.

    --
    The English word fart is one of the oldest words in the English vocabulary.
    1. Re:MOD PARENT UP by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      If I bought that case, my partner in business is the company that sells those cases. Whether they got tricked by their supplyer, whether they knew what's going on, I don't care. I only care that the product they sold to me isn't what it should be, thus I have the right to a refund. Whether they can reimbuse from their suppliers isn't my business and frankly, I don't care.

      And I shouldn't have to. When you buy a mainboard, should you be required to make sure all those chips, capacitors and other parts they used from various manufacturers (which can change a lot, too) are of high quality or at the very least what they should be? I do expect them to test these things before they sell it to me, and if it doesn't work, I won't complain about the chip manufacturer, I will complain about the mainboard manufacturer.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  12. Manufacturer link. by palegray.net · · Score: 3, Informative

    Here's a link to the manufacturer's website. Why don't we all ask them what they were thinking?

  13. And a legal battle ensues by grilled-cheese · · Score: 1

    So doesn't this fall under the legal issues with reverse engineering a commercial product, even if it completely disproves their advertising department?

    1. Re:And a legal battle ensues by hakr89 · · Score: 1

      No, you're not reverse engineering their hardware. You're cracking the encrypted data that their hardware put on your hard drive.

    2. Re:And a legal battle ensues by palegray.net · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not everyone lives in jurisdictions that consider the act of reverse engineering a cryptographic device illegal. Even at that, generally people would only have a legal case if the reverse engineering / circumvention were to circumvent a copy protection mechanism. IANAL, however.

    3. Re:And a legal battle ensues by gnasher719 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not everyone lives in jurisdictions that consider the act of reverse engineering a cryptographic device illegal. Even at that, generally people would only have a legal case if the reverse engineering / circumvention were to circumvent a copy protection mechanism. IANAL, however. Reverse engineering doesn't mean cracking. If you build a cryptographic device, I can reverse engineer it and then know exactly what you are doing, and I might be able to sell that your device is uncrackable. Or, like in this case, I might say that it isn't actually a cryptographic device :-)
    4. Re:And a legal battle ensues by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Well, it depends what country you're in. In my country, reverse engineering is explicitly allowed under our copyright laws, and it's a right you cannot forfeit (the law says so, no matter what the contract. A contract that forces you to forfeit the right to reverse is immediately invalid, at least in this part). You must not create a tool that automatically removes protection mechanisms (i.e. cracks), you must not distribute altered copies (i.e. cracked software), but you may reverse and alter as you please, you may record your findings and publish things like this, when software or hardware has side effects or different effects than advertised.

      So it highly depends on what country they reside in, I'm quite sure we're not the only ones with similar laws in effect. Some countries appearantly still subscribe to the idea that the best security lies in the ability to test it rather than relying on obscurity. The only ones who benefit from this are criminals. Criminals don't care about petty things like copyright laws or patents, they do care about loopholes and flaws, though. And if only criminals have access to those, things get nasty.

      I do hope other countries who have laws like the ones you describe in effect will realize this soon.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  14. This is nothing new by SchizoDuckie · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Actually, this is nothing new. A couple of months ago the dutch colleagues at tweakers.net had a couple of great reports on how crappy the 'fingerprint security' USB drives are. Most of them are ont he same level of crappyness this one is.

    --
    Quack damn you!
  15. Well, as others have noted by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This was a hardware solution. There's reason to want your encryption done in hardware (less CPU load for example).

    However more importantly, what good does the source really do you? I mean I can get the Truecrypt source, and I can look at it, but it really isn't going to tell me anything other than that I'm not very good at C++. I'm not a programmer by trade, so I certainly can't trace through all the complicated code that makes up a program like Truecrypt (it even includes assembly).

    What's more, even if you are a programmer, it doesn't necessairily do you any good. Cryptography is a pretty specialized field and a pretty complex one. So while you might be able to trace through all the code and see what it does, do you have all the cryptographic knowledge to know if it is doing everything right? Can you tell the different between a properly and improperly applied algorithm? Will you notice a minor bug in assembly where they put a JNA instead of a JNAE? You might conclude everything looks fine, but be wrong simply because you don't understand how it works well enough or because the error is non-obvious.

    Now please don't misunderstand, I'm not saying I think Truecrypt is untrustworthy. Far from it, I use and trust it. I am just saying that there is the false warm fuzzy myth about OSS that tends to get thrown around on /. a lot. That the code is open doesn't mean anything because 99.999+% of people can't "easily look at the source" since it won't be meaningful to them. A source audit is only useful if the person doing it is an expert and does a thorough job.

    Well, while that certainly can, and does, happen with OSS, it can happen with closed software as well. Being open doesn't make it inherantly secure, and doesn't mean a normal person can tell.

    For that matter, to really check crypto software you don't just need a code audit, it is even more important to do a results audit. Basically you take data, you encrypt it, and then you look at the result and see if it is good. You treat the software like a black box because the question isn't "Is it producing the correct result based on the code," the question is "Is it producing the correct result based on the cryptosystem." If I wanted to audit Truecrypt I wouldn't so much be interested in how it did things internally. Heck, even if I was an expert it might easily have a bug I'd miss (since after all other experts had written it and missed said bug). What I'd be interested in is having it do encryption, then comparing the result against controls. Maybe another AES implementation I knew to be good, maybe one I wrote, maybe a bit of a test worked out by pen and paper, maybe just trying to do cryptographic attacks against the ciphertext..

    Regardless of the method, what I'd want to do is verify operation, not design. I imagine that's what they did in this case. Drive claims "this is AES encryption" so they do a little compare and contrast and, what do you know, it isn't.

    1. Re:Well, as others have noted by Bert64 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, just because you may not know too much about C or encryption...
      I'm not really inclined to trust some company that says product X is secure, but i'm far more likely to trust a string of unconnected individuals, especially if some of those individuals are recognised cryptography experts or have at least studied cryptography at a reputable establishment.
      Sure it's not perfect, but its a huge step in the right direction. The only perfect solution would be to study cryptography and programming (in whatever language) yourself first.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    2. Re:Well, as others have noted by mattpalmer1086 · · Score: 1

      Checking the results of crypto software isn't generally useful, except in this particularly pathological case where they didn't even implement the algorithm they claimed!

      The reason being, security weaknesses in crypto software aren't generally of the nature that they encrypt/decrypt wrongly (rendering your data entirely useless). They're more like keys get reused improperly, or privileges can be abused, or keys are written to disk, or exposed via a side-channel attack, like the timing of encryption, etc. It's not that they don't encrypt or decrypt properly, it's that their mode of operation leaves them open to attack.

    3. Re:Well, as others have noted by m50d · · Score: 1
      However more importantly, what good does the source really do you? I mean I can get the Truecrypt source, and I can look at it, but it really isn't going to tell me anything other than that I'm not very good at C++. I'm not a programmer by trade, so I certainly can't trace through all the complicated code that makes up a program like Truecrypt (it even includes assembly).

      While you might not have that expertise, you can if need be hire someone who does.

      Now please don't misunderstand, I'm not saying I think Truecrypt is untrustworthy. Far from it, I use and trust it. I am just saying that there is the false warm fuzzy myth about OSS that tends to get thrown around on /. a lot. That the code is open doesn't mean anything because 99.999+% of people can't "easily look at the source" since it won't be meaningful to them. A source audit is only useful if the person doing it is an expert and does a thorough job.

      I remember the maintainer of the CKT series alternative builds of PGP - a quite obscure crypto program as they go - saying something along the lines of "I get detailled, technical queries about what certain parts of the source are doing on a weekly basis" - and my own limited experience of maintaining open source code would tally with this. 0.001% of the internet is still a hell of a lot of people.

      --
      I am trolling
    4. Re:Well, as others have noted by autophile · · Score: 1

      However more importantly, what good does the source really do you? I mean I can get the Truecrypt source, and I can look at it, but it really isn't going to tell me anything other than that I'm not very good at C++. I'm not a programmer by trade, so I certainly can't trace through all the complicated code that makes up a program like Truecrypt (it even includes assembly).

      Yes, but that's not the point of openness. You may not be able to understand the code, but a few hundreds, if not thousands, of others can. And all it takes is one person to notice something and shenanigans gets called.

      Heck, it only took one person to expose this closed AES "misimplementation".

      --Rob

      --
      Towards the Singularity.
    5. Re:Well, as others have noted by rabtech · · Score: 1

      The source code of most Open Source software is never examined by anyone other than the original authors of the source code.

      Granted, this is decidedly untrue for certain projects (like the Linux kernel) and even entire Operating Systems (OpenBSD). But most projects are not as popular as these and receive relatively little attention, let alone anyone combing through the source code.

      --
      Natural != (nontoxic || beneficial)
    6. Re:Well, as others have noted by greenbird · · Score: 1

      Now please don't misunderstand, I'm not saying I think Truecrypt is untrustworthy. Far from it, I use and trust it. I am just saying that there is the false warm fuzzy myth about OSS that tends to get thrown around on /. a lot. That the code is open doesn't mean anything because 99.999+% of people can't "easily look at the source" since it won't be meaningful to them. A source audit is only useful if the person doing it is an expert and does a thorough job.

      The whole point is that with open source the people who can understand the complexity can audit the code (and with crypto 99.999% is probable several orders of magnitude too low). The key factor the differentiates this from closed source is that the people doing the audit have no stake in the success of software. As a mater of fact they generally have a stake in finding a flaw since doing so would improve their reputation and likely get them some notoriety.

      Well, while that certainly can, and does, happen with OSS, it can happen with closed software as well.

      So your claim is that an audit by people who have a financial stake in the software is as good as an audit by disinterested parties. I would say that goes against human nature

      Being open doesn't make it inherantly secure, and doesn't mean a normal person can tell.

      Again, the idea isn't that everyone should be able to check the software but that disinterested qualified parties can.

      For that matter, to really check crypto software you don't just need a code audit, it is even more important to do a results audit. Basically you take data, you encrypt it, and then you look at the result and see if it is good. You treat the software like a black box because the question isn't "Is it producing the correct result based on the code," the question is "Is it producing the correct result based on the cryptosystem." If I wanted to audit Truecrypt I wouldn't so much be interested in how it did things internally. Heck, even if I was an expert it might easily have a bug I'd miss (since after all other experts had written it and missed said bug). What I'd be interested in is having it do encryption, then comparing the result against controls. Maybe another AES implementation I knew to be good, maybe one I wrote, maybe a bit of a test worked out by pen and paper, maybe just trying to do cryptographic attacks against the ciphertext.

      While I agree with this, this type of audit is orders of magnitude easier and more thorough with access to the source.

      Regardless of the method, what I'd want to do is verify operation, not design. I imagine that's what they did in this case. Drive claims "this is AES encryption" so they do a little compare and contrast and, what do you know, it isn't.

      But if they had the source it would have only taken a fairly quick glance at it to find they were lying idiots, as opposed to significant time and testing it likely took in this case.

      --
      Who is John Galt?
    7. Re:Well, as others have noted by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      While true for a lot of smaller projects, most of the important and widely used ones are decently audited (things like openssl etc).
      That said, if something was really business critical it's not a big step to contract someone in to take a look at it either, any business of significant size will get external contractors in to audit any important systems anyway, having the source means they can do a more thorough job.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
  16. The good thing about crypto in a hard drive case by kasperd · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The good thing about having the crypto performed in the enclosure is, that you can perform this kind of analysis. Had the same "encryption" been implemented directly on the disk or in a usb stick, it might not have been noticed, that it was so weak. My take on this is to never trust the crypto performed by such an enclosure unless there is a software implementation doing the exact same thing, and that one has been carefully inspected. The point of doing the encryption in hardware is performance, it does not add any additional security.

    --

    Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
  17. Does the key change? by lawrencebillson · · Score: 1

    Does the XOR key change, or is it common to all of the disks these guys make?

    1. Re:Does the key change? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It does not matter, as the method to obtain the key is so simple (demonstrated in the article), that you can do it in a few seconds for a new key.

  18. Perfect XOR encryption. by Ihlosi · · Score: 5, Funny
    XOR is not an encryption method, it's just a binary operation. It's what you XOR your data with that determines if your encryption is good or not. That's what is the problem in this case.



    Indeed. I XOR the data with itself, making sure that it can never, ever be decrypted.

  19. Linux AES better or not? by lintux · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have an AES-encrypted ext3 partition on some portable drive somewhere (using the encrypted loopback device) and I once had the impression that it has the same problem, just XORing every sector with the same 512-bit key. Am I the onlt one? I don't have the drive here right now to check it out, unfortunately..

    1. Re:Linux AES better or not? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Encrypted devices (a hard drive, in your case) have gone through several generations in the Linux kernel. The device mapper facility is the latest incarnation and (presumably) the one which should be used to avoid known pitfalls. This next generation replaces cryptoloop. Device mapper can be setup for backward compatibility with cryptoloop, but most security experts recommend sacrificing backward compatibility in the name of better security. For example, the luks-cryptsetup program will do various forms of hashing on a initial passphrase, and also setup the device to perform better hashing using the so-called "initialization vector." As far as I can tell, the problems with the previous design have to do with dictionary attacks which assume a predictable hashing function. The problem was never with the specific encryption algorithm which the user had elected to use (aes, serpent, twofish, etc.)

      According to documents I have read online, the US Government considers AES-256 "good enough" for "Top Secret" level security. The "devil" can still be in the details of the implementation, though. Beware of flaws where information inadvertantly leaks out or is subject to easy brute force attacks. I agree with the statement that "mathematics cannot be cheated." In any case, beware if you set your password as password ;)

      On a final note, the above facts probably only come into play for a determined attacker. In the usual case where a laptop has been lost or may have been stolen- most likely for parts or for a quick buck on turn-around, the thief may attempt to see if other "goodies" are easily accessible on the disk. He will most likely just give up when he sees that a total disk encryption solution is in place. Practice safe procedures for more peace of mind.

    2. Re:Linux AES better or not? by goodtrick · · Score: 2, Informative

      just FYI http://mareichelt.de/pub/texts.cryptoloop.php?alt_styles=2 talks about the shortcomings of the original cryptoloop. AFAIK, truecrypt, loop-aes and the new dm-crypt/LUKS solves these issues.

  20. How about some product testing. by therufus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If you make something that has some form of security (anything really) and you promote that it has security, surely the last thing you do before you release it is test your security. In IT especially, if you ever release a product to do with security, you have to expect that there will be a group of nerds (or even one) who will try to hack your security just so they can say they've done it. It's pure embarrassment that such a simple encryption mechanism is locking down a so-called secure device.

    Am I wrong?

    --
    You moved your mouse. Please restart Windows for changes to take effect.
    1. Re:How about some product testing. by Ihlosi · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Am I wrong?



      Yes, you are. You're thinking way too technical and way too little in marketing terms. If you want to make money, the easiest way is to find enough clueless users that will swallow your marketing babble hook, line and sinker and sell your stuff to them.

  21. Encryption with today's processors by this+great+guy · · Score: 2, Informative

    There's reason to want your encryption done in hardware (less CPU load for example).

    Just to put things in perspective for this specific case, full-speed encryption of the I/O traffic of a 2.5" drive would be pretty cheap with today's processors. I happen to have a dev tree of OpenSSL 0.9.9 on my system, and its AES-128 implementation runs at 160 MByte/s (in 64-bit mode) on my dual-core 2.4 GHz Athlon 64. A typical 2.5" drive like the one cracked by Heise has a sequential I/O transfer rate of 50 Mbyte/s. Therefore encrypting at this rate would only require 16% of my CPU time (31% of a core). Or about 7-9% of CPU time of a $270 quad-core 2.4 GHz Intel Core2 Q6600.

    1. Re:Encryption with today's processors by owlstead · · Score: 1

      The thing we need is encryption in the CPU. VIA and Sun already provide processors with build in encryption (and several embedded processors can do the same). It is really time for AMD and Intel to provide support for symmetric primitives, if possible with a well designed, documented and compatible instructions and registers (the one provided by VIA has some drawbacks, I think). A hardware key store that can be used by these instructions might also be an interesting option, although some people would no doubt argue against that (since it might enable much stronger DRM).

      Of course, it would be important for the applications to be able to make use of this interface. The most standardized way is to use a PKCS#11 interface, which would in turn use some driver or device. Applications could then use either the low level stuff, the PKCS#11 interface (a dynamic library) or, of course, openssl. TrueCrypt would probably opt for the low level interface. This would probably require some rework since they've opted to program their own version of AES. And their are two pitfalls: a crypto processor on the CPU means that you need to stream all the data to the CPU, and hard disk encryption normally uses a specific AES mode of operation that might be a bit harder to support.

      I believe AMD is currently looking into ways of embedding crypto into their processors. It's really weird this has not happened yet since, in my opinion, it is one of the easier ways to speed up current computers. It might also do wonders for their server sales (https/ssl/tls).

      Wish list:
      - streamed md5, sha-1 & 2 + whirlpool
      - streamed 3des & aes (allowing for different operational modes)
      - dh, rsa & ecc (Montgomery multiplier)
      - true RNG
      - keystore

      While they're at it, why not add a few commonly used codecs (within encryption) such as base-64 or even LZH? Check out the numbers posted on the VIA and Sun sites to have an idea of what a HW capable CPU might be capable of. These numbers are always best case scenarios, but these CPU's can saturate a harddisk and a gigabit network interface, even at the same time.

    2. Re:Encryption with today's processors by owlstead · · Score: 1

      "And their are two pitfalls"

      OMG, I really have to stop reading Slashdot. Did I just type "OMG"? Darn, it might be too late...

  22. WTF? by EddyPearson · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Why havn't they been charged with fraud and false advertising.

    If I sell you a padlock, claiming that its made of steel, when actually its made of a Silly Putty and rubber bands, then I'm going have my day in court. Why Tech vendors seem TOTALLY immune to this kind of prosecution.

    Puts me in mind of SecuLock (was that the name?), they were featured here a while back, they make "secure" USB memory sticks, they claimed AES encryption, killswitches and other bells and whistles, but if you were to have a quick look at one of the DLL's exports, you can see a an Unlock routine. You see, the user's password wasn't used as a key, Oh no, they had one global key and a simple IF to check the passwords.

    Though this is much, much worse, it beggars the question; how can we berate employees for losing disks and laptops, when the vendors are happy to look us in the eye and lie to us, about standards that I was able to implement when I was about 16.

    It's either government interferance (remember, the USA's law forcing vendors to embed backdoors for them), or its just plain lazy, either way, it's got to stop.

    --
    You feel sleepy. Close your eyes. The opinions stated above are yours. You cannot imagine why you ever felt otherwise.
    1. Re:WTF? by Fnord666 · · Score: 1

      (remember, the USA's law forcing vendors to embed backdoors for them)
      No, I don't recall having seen that. Could you please provide some sort of factual reference for this? I'm curious when this was and what it applied to.
      --
      'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
    2. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (remember, the USA's law forcing vendors to embed backdoors for them)

      State your source.

    3. Re:WTF? by xant · · Score: 1

      Why havn't they been charged with fraud and false advertising.

      If I sell you a padlock, claiming that its made of steel, when actually its made of a Silly Putty and rubber bands, then I'm going have my day in court. I know this is nit-picky, and potentially offtopic, but "my day in court" is actually supposed to be a good thing. There was a time when our legal system was held in high regard, and getting to go to court to air your grievances was a triumph of the rule of law. You say the phrase "my day in court" about someone who gets to have a case, to bring down evildoers, heard at last.
      --
      It's rare that you're presented with a knob whose only two positions are Make History and Flee Your Glorious Destiny.
    4. Re:WTF? by EddyPearson · · Score: 1

      I am aware of that.

      I was trying to be slightly satirical, I will never attempt it again.

      --
      You feel sleepy. Close your eyes. The opinions stated above are yours. You cannot imagine why you ever felt otherwise.
  23. Free encryption tools! Luks is the way to go... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    cross platform standards
    free (beer/liberty)

    what more do you want?

  24. Unless there was a really long key. . . by MT628496 · · Score: 1

    Don't forget that with a key that is as long as the message and is random, XOR encryption is not just computationally hard, it is totally unbreakable.

    1. Re:Unless there was a really long key. . . by grikdog · · Score: 1

      As totally useless, since now you have to securely transmit a message AND a key you don't dare use twice. Ask Che Guevara.

      --
      ``Tension, apprehension & dissension have begun!'' - Duffy Wyg&, in Alfred Bester's _The Demolished Man_
    2. Re:Unless there was a really long key. . . by MT628496 · · Score: 1

      I never said it was practical. All I'm doing is pointing out that anyone who says XOR encryption is insecure or useless doesn't know what they're talking about. It would be stupid to use it for an entire drive, of course.

  25. AES in counter mode? by nickovs · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's perfectly possible that they have actually implemented AES, they've just done it wrong. It is not uncommon to use AES in Counter Mode or Galois/Counter Mode, especially in high-throughput hardware implementations. This is reasonably strong providing that the key used for each disc block is different (for example by hashing or even just XORing the block ID with the base key). However, if the key is left the same for every block then you would get exactly the effect observed here, and the resulting solution is very weak indeed.

    So, it's perfectly possible that they are not lying at all, they just are not very good at crypto.

    --
    If intelligent life is too complex to evolve on its own, who designed God?
    1. Re:AES in counter mode? by grikdog · · Score: 1

      The first rule of cryptanalysis is that secure pipes leak at both ends, but if you build your pipes out of empty toilet paper tubes... Unh. It's sooo easy to be half-baked, as in been there, done that. BLNT.

      --
      ``Tension, apprehension & dissension have begun!'' - Duffy Wyg&, in Alfred Bester's _The Demolished Man_
    2. Re:AES in counter mode? by Alexpkeaton1010 · · Score: 1

      Mod the Parent up. He is exactly correct. This entire situation reeks of a poor engineer, not intentional misconduct.

    3. Re:AES in counter mode? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was probably implemented by the same engineers who designed Windows Vista, which would explain everything.

  26. It's not the company's fault... by msauve · · Score: 5, Informative
    although they perhaps didn't do due diligence.

    They used a chipset from INNMAX, the IM7206, believing it provided AES encryption to data. INNMAX's marketing strongly implies that AES encryption is being used for data on disk.

    According to the article, when confronted with this situation, INNMAX's response was

    The IN7206 merely uses AES encryption when saving the RFID chip's ID in the controller's flash memory. The company explained that actual data encryption is based on a proprietary algorithm. The company claims the IM7206 only offers basic protection and is designed for "general purpose" users.
    Cheap Chinese Crap.
    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    1. Re:It's not the company's fault... by Svartalf · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Cheap Chinese Crap.


      Definitely not anything unheard of. Sometimes you get a gem out of the Chinese stuff. Most of the time, though, you
      get shoddy workmanship, which is what you expect. That's because the incentives are on cutting corners wherever you
      can on the stuff over there. That's part of why I question any value in much, if not most, of the offshoring we keep
      insisting upon doing here in the States.
      --
      I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
    2. Re:It's not the company's fault... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, it's the company's fault for misleading advertising. If I put out an EMI non-compliant drive even though I use EMI compliant chips I'm the one up the creek.

      Both Seagate and Maxtor have drives with AES embedded in the controller. You pay extra for those drives for a reason since the computations are more intensive than a typical drive controller can handle.

      Rumors abound in the drive industry that AES encrypted drives will be offered by everybody very soon. The only real question is when drive encryption becomes standard on drives. That's a little further out, but the crystal ball says not too far out.

    3. Re:It's not the company's fault... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The point is, people actually BUY that shit. ;)

  27. XOR is good enough for general situations by Viol8 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Sure its "easy" to crack if you know about these things , but the encryption is just meant to protect against casual snooping if the drive is stolen. Lets be honest , most thieves would have trouble spelling their own name on their crack cocaine receipts, what are the odds on them being able to decipher the data on an XOR'd drive? They just want to sell the drive on and the mug who buys it down the pub will find it won't work anyway because he doesn't have the fob. Is he going to hire some hacker from L337D00d5-r-u5 to decode the data for him? Doubt it. Sure theres a possibility but then theres probably a greater possibility of fraudsters going through your garbage or intercepting your post.

  28. Freecom equally bad by CarpetShark · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Trust is a precious resource that you must cultivate; it's not a boomerang. Never risk throwing it away.


    Agreed. This is exactly what freecom did when they sold me a usb bluetooth adaptor with an antenna. I dropped it one day, and the little case popped open. OK, that happens; no big deal. What WAS a big deal though, was the antenna -- it was simply a bit of plastic, swinging from a hole in the case. There were no wires attached to this, nothing else near it that even suggested it might have accidentally been shipped with a "placeholder" or something like that. It was simple, unadultered fraud. The antenna might as well have been made by Tomy, which is a shame, as otherwise, it worked fine, and the antenna probably was unnecessary after all (I bought that model FOR it's antenna figuring it wouldn't hurt, and might help).

    What do freecom gain from this? Something like $5, I'd guess, after the store etc. take their cuts.

    What do they lose? Me, as a an IT industry purchaser, ever buying their products again. Me telling other IT people on slashdot what I think of Freecom.

    What could they have done instead, to compete with manufacturer X's? "We're confident in our product's reception/transmission, and have no need for gimmicks like the antennas manufacturer X uses." I probably would have bought a lot more of their stuff after that.

    Dumbasses.
    1. Re:Freecom equally bad by laymil · · Score: 1, Insightful

      (I bought that model FOR it's antenna figuring it wouldn't hurt, and might help). Adding that plastic antenna got them a marketing and competitive advantage. How many people were, like yourself, sold on the fact that "this adapter has an antenna, so it probably has better range!" and used this 'fact' to make their decision? I wouldn't necessarily consider it fraud, as you never know what internal design iterations the device went through. Maybe the initial design called for an actual antenna and the casing was designed around that. Perhaps later testing showed the antenna provided no actual gain and it was removed, but the cases were already in production. Perhaps a later revision removed the antenna, but the plastic case kept it in order to keep the device recognizable as part of the Freecom brand.

      You immediately attribute to malice and fraud that which could be explained plausibly in several other ways. If the device worked as expected, real antenna or not, I fail to see the justification for your complaint. At worst, the design is a smart marketing decision; at best, it is a vestigial part from an earlier design iteration.
    2. Re:Freecom equally bad by CarpetShark · · Score: 1

      Well, one man's smart marketing decision is another man's blatant lie. It comes down to individual scruples, I guess.

  29. Jump the train! Get into IT-Sec! by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Well, welcome to the new world of IT. Now it's official that we got the first fake products that the time has come, IT security has become an issue.

    How do you know? Well, companies finally realize that yes, we want some sort of security. They usually have no idea about it (how should they, their administrators are usually some goons hired from the street who know how to use a mouse, what makes them administrators is that they know that TCP/IP ain't the Chinese secret service. MAYBE they can build a VPN tunnel). But encryption?

    You know what the brass level says in this case: "Ain't there some product we can buy?" And in comes stuff like this. Stuff that promises security. Nobody can verify it (in the average company), but their admin might even have heard of AES, knows it's decent and thus buys the product. Why? Hey, it says "AES encryption" on the box!

    We'll see a lot more products like this in the near future. Then, in about 2 years, companies will realize that they will have to spend money on people to get real security. It's just like it was with the advent of networking and later when "the internet" came into companies. First, they tried to buy products (which were just as shoddy as this one, promising "easy installation" wonders only to work ... well, sometimes), later they hired some sort of goons who could credibly talk the average HR guy under the desk in IT babble, and a few went on and hired real IT people.

    It will be the same with security. Today you have the "buying the wonders" phase. Give it two years and companies will start to train or hire security people. Yes, many will stick with the goons with better fast-talking skills than IT skills, but some will go for good security people.

    So, personally, I'd start digging into that sector. We'll see more of that soon.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  30. MOD PARENT UP by neumayr · · Score: 1

    Seriously, how could this be modded troll?
    Some people...

    --
    Truth arises more readily from error than from confusion. -Francis Bacon
  31. who is.... by konigstein · · Score: 1

    As exciting as this all is, I sure wish I could capitalize on this other guy with my last name doing all this exciting security research!

    --
    This space intentionally left blank
  32. Actual source code used proves company didn't lie! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Reverse engineering their code I can see they weren't lying afterall....

    XOR AX,0031 ; 1
    XOR AX,0032 ; 2
    XOR AX,0038 ; 8
    XOR AX,002D ; -
    XOR AX,0062 ; b
    XOR AX,0069 ; i
    XOR AX,0074 ; t
    XOR AX,0041 ; A
    XOR AX,0045 ; E
    XOR AX,0053 ; S

  33. Making encryption standard by BenEnglishAtHome · · Score: 1

    The only real question is when drive encryption becomes standard on drives.

    For some of us, drive encryption has been standard for a long time.

    At my job, we implement in software using Winmagic.

    At home, I've used Flagstone drives for years. They're expensive (and for that reason I may soon switch to Seagate) but my peace of mind is worth a lot more.

  34. Default crypto behavior by Sancho · · Score: 1

    We're trying to get to the point where cryptography for sensitive data is ubiquitous. Who's going to use crypto in the future if the first time that they lose their key, Microsoft tells them, "Sorry. Nothing we can do for you?"

    Unfortunately, this is the wrong solution. The right solution would be an escrow keystore, and informing the user of what's going on.

    1. Re:Default crypto behavior by treeves · · Score: 1
      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
    2. Re:Default crypto behavior by Sancho · · Score: 1

      Context?

      I assume this guy has promoted mandatory escrow of encryption keys--and that's not what I'm suggesting at all. I'm suggesting it as default behavior from encryption vendors so that people don't lose their digital lives when they forget their password. It should obviously be optional, but a default so that people who turn it on without knowing what they're doing have a way to recover.

    3. Re:Default crypto behavior by mxs · · Score: 1

      We're trying to get to the point where cryptography for sensitive data is ubiquitous. Who's going to use crypto in the future if the first time that they lose their key, Microsoft tells them, "Sorry. Nothing we can do for you?" I couldn't care less about that user. You either get proper and secure encryption, or you don't. Loosing your crypto key is no different than a hard disk crash. People need to learn that backups are necessary. Most people ONLY EVER learn this the hard way, no matter how often you tell them beforehand. Loosing your crypto keys should yield the exact same result as a burning harddrive would -- otherwise the crypto is pretty much worthless.

      Unfortunately, this is the wrong solution. The right solution would be an escrow keystore, and informing the user of what's going on. That's the "right" solution for some users. Key escrow gives up quite a bit of confidentiality of your data, since you are no longer the sole keeper of your keys. To some, this is acceptable. It is not, however, a good default. Ubiquitious encryption is a lofty goal and one that should be striven for ... However if the standard is to keep all crypto keys in escrow, then that's not really a good thing. The minute your key is not in escrow, you become suspicious. That's a bad thing (well, it's a good thing if you work at one of the 3LAs :)
    4. Re:Default crypto behavior by Sancho · · Score: 1

      You either get proper and secure encryption, or you don't. Are you one of those "It's always black-and-white," kind of people? There are shades of gray, you know.

      Loosing ... Loosing ... I don't want to be a grammar nazi, but I do want to point out that the word is "losing." I mention this only because you typed it incorrectly twice, and if I made a similar mistake, I'd want to know about it. It's obviously irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

      That's the "right" solution for some users. Key escrow gives up quite a bit of confidentiality of your data, since you are no longer the sole keeper of your keys. Well, the point is for a home user to be able to use encryption without having to worry about losing his key. It's about someone not getting turned off of encryption because he lost his key.

      It is not, however, a good default. I disagree. I think it's a fine default as long as the user receives a warning that the vendor will be able to decrypt his drives if he loses his key or if the vendor is subpoenaed by a government entity.

      The minute your key is not in escrow, you become suspicious. Right now, the minute you use crypto, you become suspicious (well, the minute they find out that you use crypto.) Under this scenario, someone using crypto without key escrow would be off of the radar. If a 3LA is observing you closely enough to find out that you're using crypto without key escrow, they're already suspicious of you.
    5. Re:Default crypto behavior by treeves · · Score: 1

      Nah, he's just a face on today's NSA, the NSA which started promoting key escrow, in the Clipper chip, et al. back in the 1990s, to give the government a backdoor into everyone's secrets. I guess ADM Bobby Ray Inman, the NSA director at that time would make more sense, but it was just a joke after all.

      --
      ...the future crusty old bastards are already drinking the Kool-Aid.
    6. Re:Default crypto behavior by mxs · · Score: 1

      When cryptography is concerned, yes, I do think in shades of black and white. Your data is either encrypted and you are the only one who is able to access it, or you are not. Yes, there are other usage scenarios, but the /default/ should always be that.

      Yes, I sometimes mix up loose and lose. It's been about 10 years since I last got grades in English (it not being my native tongue), so thanks for pointing it out.

      If somebody gets turned off of encryption because s/he lost his/her key, they should probably not have encrypted in the first place -- much in the same vein as people who get turned off of computers because their harddrive crashed and they neglected to make any backups (despites advice to the contrary, since it could not POSSIBLY happen to them ...)

      I still think it ought to be the default that you are the only one with the key. However, during setup, you could be notified that it is possible to put your key in escrow, with those limitations. Just make it unchecked by default.

      Yes, 3LAs are suspicious of any crypto. Hell, border patrol will probably confiscate your laptop if they even suspect you are using crypto. Nevermind the fact that https gets used every day :>
      However, if the key is not in escrow, they can be suspicious all they want, they don't get to snoop around in that data -- even if it is just a fine collection of spam in your inbox. Well, that is unless they compel you to give up you keys by some other unlawful measure, but that's another story.

  35. weakest link by BrunoUsesBBEdit · · Score: 1

    Your entire security chain is broken when you introduce a microsoft product. I don't allow windows machines on my network. When they are detected, they are quarantined. You are crazy if you let a microsoft machine have access to both your network and the outside world.

    1. Re:weakest link by Eivind · · Score: 1

      In the real world, a significant part of the machines you may wish to exchange files with will run some operating-system from Microsoft.

      I can agree that -IF- you have no need to ever read/write your device from a MS-machine, then there's no good reason to go with TrueCrypt. The main advantage is precisely the cross-platform thing.

  36. Re:The good thing about crypto in a hard drive cas by noidentity · · Score: 1

    The point of doing the encryption in hardware is performance, it does not add any additional security.

    I'd say it always reduces security, since the data is in the clear between the drive and the computer, it adds yet another part of the system that must be trusted, and it's very hard to verify that the drive is doing any encryption at all.

  37. If only there were some way to test this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    FIPS 140-2
    This is why it exists.

  38. Simple Misunderstanding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They used their "Advanced Encryption System" to encrypt the data (also known as XOR encryption to industry insiders.) Please don't confuse this with the Advanced Encryption Standard.

  39. Big surprise ... by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

    NOT !

    --
    Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"