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Judge Rejects RIAA 'Making Available' Theory

NewYorkCountryLawyer writes "A federal judge in Connecticut has rejected the RIAA's 'making available' theory, which is the basis of all of the RIAA's peer to peer file sharing cases. In Atlantic v. Brennan, in a 9-page opinion [PDF], Judge Janet Bond Arterton held that the RIAA needs to prove 'actual distribution of copies', and cannot rely — as it was permitted to do in Capitol v. Thomas — upon the mere fact that there are song files on the defendant's computer and that they were 'available'. This is the same issue that has been the subject of extensive briefing in two contested cases in New York, Elektra v. Barker and Warner v. Cassin. Judge Arterton also held that the defendant had other possible defenses, such as the unconstitutionality of the RIAA's damages theory and possible copyright misuse flowing from the record companies' anticompetitive behavior."

86 of 353 comments (clear)

  1. Smart Judge by Killjoy_NL · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This really makes me smile, I'm not in the US, but I follow the news on these kinds of cases (mostly on Slashdot), if only this would get more mainstream coverage.

    --
    This is the sig that says NI (again)
    1. Re:Smart Judge by jtroutman · · Score: 4, Funny

      I would say, "How much more mainstream do you want than Slashdot?" After all, we are legion, we bring down servers across the internet merely by visiting them en masse. But then I look at Ron Paul's primary results and slink back to my basement.

      --
      I stole this sig from a more creative user.
    2. Re:Smart Judge by ajs · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This really makes me smile, I'm not in the US, but I follow the news on these kinds of cases (mostly on Slashdot), if only this would get more mainstream coverage. Not going to happen.

      The only angle under which this is "news" is that file sharing just became a lot more reasonable, and that's not something that IP-based conglomerates (aka the mainstream media) are going to be pushing. It just sounds dirty to them, and I don't think it's even a conscious decision. There's just no reason that a modern news reporter would think this was of general interest.

    3. Re:Smart Judge by KublaiKhan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, it's not really 'news' to most mainstream people--because, frankly, it doesn't really affect them directly.

      Were the RIAA to be dissolved in a fit of legal briefs, that might make the business pages--but it would take something fairly spectacular to get into the 'real' news.

      --
      In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
      A stately pleasure dome decree
    4. Re:Smart Judge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Unfortunately, the people that own media creation companies also own the tv, distribution & broadcast companies. Its also not in their best interests for the public to know when its harder for the **AA to sue people. Fear of being sued is the only weapon they think they have to fight copyright infringement. Its not the only option available to them (blanket licences, more reasonable prices, producing better media etc) but when they insist on trying to fight back against copyright infringement all they can do is sue or buy more laws making it easier to sue.

    5. Re:Smart Judge by ivan256 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I would say, "How much more mainstream do you want than Slashdot?" After all, we are legion, we bring down servers across the internet merely by visiting them en masse. But then I look at Ron Paul's primary results and slink back to my basement.


      What makes you think anywhere close to a majority of us would vote for Ron Paul? Seems like a poor indication of how mainstream Slashdot is.
    6. Re:Smart Judge by Mr_eX9 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      'Real' news indeed.

      The standards of what's deemed newsworthy in the US are completely off. This case, a milestone in the RIAA's war against file-sharers, isn't newsworthy, but a pop-psychologist making blatantly erroneous statements out of ignorance is? Doesn't seem right.

    7. Re:Smart Judge by KublaiKhan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Thus the scare quotes.

      It's mostly due to the perception of the american public that anything that doesn't directly affect them is not terribly important--hence, the American Idol winner, the winner of the presidential election, and the price of gas are 'news' while most legal decisions are merely trivia, unless you're a lawyer or directly involved as one of the parties.

      --
      In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
      A stately pleasure dome decree
    8. Re:Smart Judge by phoomp · · Score: 4, Interesting

      News related to P2P has been getting quite a bit of coverage in Canada lately. Not yet front-page coverage, but 2nd page coverage in some cases. Of course, our mainstream media isn't in bed with the IP-based conglomerates to the same degree as yours are.

    9. Re:Smart Judge by poetmatt · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This is a pretty big deal. A lot of countries fall back on the US in order to use as a basis for their law (australia) and some use it as an example of what not to do in most instances (EU). So definitely a total gain on a worldwide level if precedents are set.

    10. Re:Smart Judge by rhizome · · Score: 4, Insightful

      if only this would get more mainstream coverage.

      The problem is that the plaintiffs in this case are the companies who would report on this development.

      --
      When I was a kid, we only had one Darth.
    11. Re:Smart Judge by wealthychef · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think this judge did not go quite far enough. I think the RIAA should have to show not only that distribution occurred, but that the distribution was INTENTIONAL. That is, not the product of accidentally having a file in a directory that Limewire is sharing or something.

      --
      Currently hooked on AMP
    12. Re:Smart Judge by KublaiKhan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Those of us who refuse to watch it are generally the demographic who are perceptive enough to realize that legal decisions can impact other than the lawyers and the parties directly involved.

      Thus, we're not in the mainstream--and hence, not the folks that the mainstream 'news' is targeting.

      Those that do watch it are impacted directly with watercooler gossip or somesuch, I suppose. I'm not exactly certain why it's news, to be honest--I don't watch the thing myself--but that's my best guess.

      --
      In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
      A stately pleasure dome decree
    13. Re:Smart Judge by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well, the law is quite clear that no mental state has to be shown for civil copyright infringement. Even if you infringe purely by accident, and you always acted as reasonably and as carefully as possible, you can still wind up on the hook for infringement. So the court in this case is not going to find otherwise, but it would be a good part of a comprehensive legislative reform. (Though I think an intentional standard is somewhat high)

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    14. Re:Smart Judge by TheThiefMaster · · Score: 2, Informative

      That's actually an interesting question -- how many of us here WOULD vote for Ron Paul?** I'm guessing no more than about half, since there are a fair number of left-wing liberals in the slashdot mix.

      **I did, but I'm just one in, uh, a million and change... 17%
    15. Re:Smart Judge by Reziac · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Thanks, I'd missed that one... (or maybe active polls are STILL not visible in lite/no-CSS mode) ... considering the relative youth hereabouts, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that liberals outnumber conservatives over 2 to 1.

      How'd the old quote go? (attrib. Churchill but may be older.) Something like: "If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain."

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    16. Re:Smart Judge by civilizedINTENSITY · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't know, "fiscally conservative and socially liberal" sounds like a democrat. Republicans are fiscally liberal and socially conservative...

    17. Re:Smart Judge by besalope · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I thought it was "If you're not liberal at 20, you have no heart. If you're not conservative at 40, you have no money."

    18. Re:Smart Judge by The+Master+Control+P · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Don't forget the corollary, that a liberal will become a conservative in 30-40 years without changing a single idea.

    19. Re:Smart Judge by Kjella · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Though I think an intentional standard is somewhat high. I agree, this after all liability not guilt we're talking about. If I'm out playing soccer and accidentally break your window, surely I should pay for it even though it wasn't intentional? Perhaps doing it unwittingly (not understanding shared folders) or in good faith (misinformed about copyright status) should not cause liability, but surely some level of negligence or recklessness should suffice. It would follow the main line in tort law that you're liable for harm through negligence. Now there's the other matter that the claimed damages in this case are utterly insane, but that's a different discussion than the principle of them.
      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    20. Re:Smart Judge by pnuema · · Score: 2, Interesting
      (attrib. Churchill but may be older.) Something like: "If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain.

      It wasn't Churchill; it was a Frenchman, François Guisot (1787-1874).

      My favorite quote along these lines:

      In the end, conservatives always lose. If they didn't, we would still be living in caves.

  2. ouch... by rsmoody · · Score: 4, Funny

    Was that the sky falling that hit me on the head or just a smart-stick!

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    45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    1. Re:ouch... by Stanistani · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'm gonna shut the window so those flying pigs won't get inside and interfere with me knitting a muffler for the devil.

    2. Re:ouch... by rabiddeity · · Score: 5, Funny

      Ah, I just thought of something to make your comment even better! Next time, try "I'm going to _secure my windows_ so those flying pigs..." Same meaning, slightly rearranged, infinitely more Slashdot appeal!

  3. Geez... by ack154 · · Score: 2

    It is about... damn... time.

  4. respect for law by Lord+Ender · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So this form of copyright infringement is illegal, but the law impossible to enforce? Not a good situation. Congress will be forced to give IP rights holders increased power to police infringement.

    --
    A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    1. Re:respect for law by kithrup · · Score: 3, Informative

      There isn't an "attempted copyright infringement" law, or at least I don't believe there is. (Is there a conspiracy charge that can be used?) So it's not illegal until copying actually happens. That, however, is not what the RIAA has been arguing, to various degrees of success.

    2. Re:respect for law by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This case is legal precedent in only New York, Vermont and Connecticut. Judges will take into consideration what other circuits have decided, but they are certainly not bound by it. It's not binding anywhere, other than in the case in which it was rendered.

      But where a judge has done his or her homework, and is right.... other judges will follow. This judge has done her homework, and is right. Other judges will follow.

      And when these issues get to an appeals court, there is no other possible answer than the one she gave: (a) the complaint doesn't satisfy the federal pleading standards for the alleged violations of the right of reproduction (uploading and downloading), (b) there is no such thing as a claim for 'making files available for distribution', (c) there is a meritorious defense of copyright misuse, and (d) there is a meritorious defense of unconstitutionality of the plaintiffs' statutory damages theory.
      --
      Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
    3. Re:respect for law by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No, it's just not infringement at all. Bad precedent aside, the statute requires distribution, not merely making available. (Of course, if the courts were really going to pay attention to the statute, they'd see that distribution isn't possible on the Internet anyway; it would have to be public performance or display)

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
  5. This is actually important... by Otter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's worth noting that unlike the typical NewYorkCountryLawyer story gloating about how the RIAA lost some motion on some case somewhere, this is a potentially major development.

    1. Re:This is actually important... by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 5, Funny

      It's worth noting that unlike the typical NewYorkCountryLawyer story gloating about how the RIAA lost some motion on some case somewhere, this is a potentially major development. Thanks.
      --
      Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
    2. Re:This is actually important... by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 4, Informative

      The RIAA also lost an uncontested case, the other day. This guy not only didn't have a lawyer, he didn't even show up. And the RIAA still lost because it neglected to include any facts, producing only a 'boilerplate' complaint that could have equally well applied to anyone the RIAA sued. I'd submit this as a story, but it's too much of a rehash now, so feel free to discuss both of the RIAA's losses here. It's the same case.
      --
      Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
    3. Re:This is actually important... by wilder_card · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yeah, would you quit covering stuff YOU think is important? Check with Otter before you put something up on your own website, will you?

    4. Re:This is actually important... by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 3, Funny

      It's worth noting that unlike the typical NewYorkCountryLawyer story gloating about how the RIAA lost some motion on some case somewhere, this is a potentially major development.
      Thanks.

      Don't fret Ray. Otter will probably need some legal help sooner-or-later. Then you can reply, "Otter who?"

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    5. Re:This is actually important... by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yeah, would you quit covering stuff YOU think is important? Check with Otter before you put something up on your own website, will you? Okay.
      --
      Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
    6. Re:This is actually important... by Khaed · · Score: 2, Funny

      Is it just me, or did anyone else laugh that two one-word posts got moderated up pretty high back to back like that?

      Seriously though, thanks for what you do.

  6. Re:kinda dumb by jtroutman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No, putting up the sign makes it "intent to distribute", which is not the same as having files in a publicly available folder. This would be like making a copy of a song on a CD, leaving that CD on your porch and having someone come along and pick it up. Then getting sued for distribution.

    --
    I stole this sig from a more creative user.
  7. What the hell is with judges this year?!? by Wandering+Wombat · · Score: 5, Funny

    Who the hell gave them the power to just wantonly dispense fair and balanced justice like this? Judges have always been empowered to make huge decisions, but this new behavior is becoming quite alarming. Common sense has been creeping into recent rulings with alarming frequency, and many decisions seem to be based on information, not cash-backed opinions.

    I hope this behavior doesn't continue... the entire American way of life is at stake!

    --
    I like to place meaningful quotes in my sig, so people will know that I know what meaningful quotes are.
  8. Re:kinda dumb by CSMatt · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Not quite. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm guessing your tactic would constitute commercial infringement and thus fall into criminal law (or at the very least a different set of laws), whereas small-scale sharing without any money being made would fall under civil law, which is what this case is interpreting.

  9. Re:So uhm... why is this different? by compro01 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How are these different? different judges and non-binding precidents.

    --
    upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
  10. Poll: What will the RIAA do now? by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm taking a poll. What do you think the RIAA will do now with this case?

    (a) Walk away.
    (b) Bury the judge in paper with a 'reconsideration' motion.
    (c) Ask Mr. Brennan to "settle".
    (d) Other.

    --
    Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
    1. Re:Poll: What will the RIAA do now? by Dr.+Eggman · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Why not submit this to the official slashdot poll? With a referencial link to the case/this story, of course.

      Also, b. I'm hoping to seem something wacky in d, but I think b.

      --
      Demented But Determined.
    2. Re:Poll: What will the RIAA do now? by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm going with choice "b" b) Bury the judge in paper with a 'reconsideration' motion. I think I remember reading that they've tended to use this tactic in other cases and non-court situations too. They did indeed use that tactic in Atlantic v. Dangler and Interscope v. Does 1-y.
      --
      Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
    3. Re:Poll: What will the RIAA do now? by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 4, Informative

      D) Slightly change the wording of their argument and keep on truckin' They did indeed do that in Interscope v. Rodriguez, but for some reason they skipped out on actually serving the amended "argument".
      --
      Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
    4. Re:Poll: What will the RIAA do now? by psychicninja · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'm taking a poll. What do you think the RIAA will do now with this case?

      (a) Walk away.
      (b) Bury the judge in paper with a 'reconsideration' motion.
      (c) Ask Mr. Brennan to "settle".
      (d) Send in CowboyNeal
      Fixed that for ya.
    5. Re:Poll: What will the RIAA do now? by KublaiKhan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Frightfully lazy of 'em.

      Or perhaps they're filing more suits than they can reasonably expect to fight, banking on having most of 'em settle out of court, so a few slip through the cracks from time to time?

      If that's the case, and it could be proven that such a load is an unreasonable hinderance on the court system, then perhaps a class action suit on behalf of all the people being delayed by the RIAA's nonsense might be....profitable.

      --
      In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
      A stately pleasure dome decree
    6. Re:Poll: What will the RIAA do now? by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 2, Informative

      If the brain who gives the go-ahead to continue the process is at all rational, then a. That's a big 'if'. This is the clone-in-charge.
      --
      Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
    7. Re:Poll: What will the RIAA do now? by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 2, Informative

      And these are their spokespersons.

      --
      Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
  11. Re:kinda dumb by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    The situation you describe is akin to when police bust drug dealers in undercover operations - they have to wait for the sale to be completed (money to change hands) before they can arrest and charge the individual with dealing.

  12. Re:So uhm... why is this different? by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 4, Informative

    Why is making available rejected in this case but not in the Thom[as] case? Because the judge in the Thomas case made an error.

    How are these different? No difference. The judge's instructions to the jury in Capitol v. Thomas should have been precisely what Judge Arterton said:

    ""[W]ithout actual distribution of copies.... there is no violation [of] the distribution right." 4 William F. Patry, Patry on Copyright 13:9 (2007); see also id. N. 10 (collecting cases); Perfect 10, Inc. v. Amazon.com, Inc., 508 F.3d 1146, 1162 (9th Cir. 2007)(affirming the district court's finding "that distribution requires an 'actual dissemination' of a copy")".
    --
    Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
  13. Re:kinda dumb by amosh · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Correct, someone WOULD (sue, not arrest) you. Once you burn copies, you're violating copyright, even if you didn't sell any. This ruling doesn't apply to you at all; anyone who comes to your stand can see proof of your illegal activity.

    It does, however, apply to the defendant in this case. The reason the RIAA needed the "making available" theory is because they did not have any actual proof that their copyright had been violated. If I've got an MP3 in a public folder, what have I done? Have I illegally copied anything? Doesn't seem like it. Have I created a derivative work? Arguably, if I ripped the MP3, but maybe I downloaded it, and ripping a CD I own is almost certainly fair use anyway. Have I distributed it? Well, if the RIAA has proof of me distributing it to someone, they've got me. Obviously, in this case, they don't have proof of that. All they see is that MP3, so the "making available" theory says that, even in the absence of proof that their rights have been violated, they should be able to sue people.

    What happens if you leave a DVD on your front lawn, I come along with my laptop, rip and burn it? THAT is what this case is talking about. Have you broken the law by leaving that DVD on the lawn? I clearly have, by copying it... the RIAA thinks that you have, too. The judge, luckily, knows the law a little bit better. You have proof, or you have nothing.

  14. This may affect more than just the RIAA by Reziac · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is a blow not only against the RIAA legal machine, but also against "thought crime" of all sorts (such as the argument that selling guns facilitates murder). So even as significant as it is by itself, it is a FAR more important decision than it appears.

    --
    ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    1. Re:This may affect more than just the RIAA by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This is a blow not only against the RIAA legal machine, but also against "thought crime" of all sorts (such as the argument that selling guns facilitates murder). So even as significant as it is by itself, it is a FAR more important decision than it appears. Indeed it is. A judge telling the emperor he wears no clothes. This may be the beginning of the end.
      --
      Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
  15. Re:kinda dumb by mea37 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Except that depends. If "shared folder" means "folder shared and indexed by a p2p service, such that said service's other users are made aware of the track's availability upon request", then it's more like the GP's example than yours.

    Actually it's like the GP's example with a much more effective marketing budget.

    I do agree in a literal sense that "merely making available" should not be enough to get a judgement; but I don't agree if you're saying that putting a track on kazaa is "merely making it available".

  16. What about Obama? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Wouldn't you do better to look at Obama's numbers before he became popular as a baseline for Slashdot's influence? That poll we had showed Obama with several times Ron Paul's support.

    We're not all Libertarians around here, and the pollsters always mention that Obama gets most of the educated Democratic voters. It's true that Obama supporters aren't as ... talkative ... as Dr. Paul's supporters, though, so maybe that's why people don't notice them as much.

    1. Re:What about Obama? by civilizedINTENSITY · · Score: 2

      Normal, intelligent people don't care much about national politics because they know that as individuals they have zero impact on the operations of the broken and corrupt system. That is the *rational* response.
      Methinks you confuse "rational" with "rationalize".

      But hey, rationalization is more important than sex. Think not? Every try to go a day without three really juicy rationalizations? ;-)
    2. Re:What about Obama? by yfarren · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Posts like the parent REALLY piss me off. Anyone who moderated him anything other than "TROLL" should... consider themselves.

      The focus of the poster is to say "you dont matter". Not only that, but to say thathe is being RATIONAL in making that claim. An individual absolutely does matter in National Politics. Anyone who says otherwise needs to learn some math, and some basic economic theory.

      Basically, the value of your vote is the total value of all votes, divided by the total number of all votes.

      So to say your vote has a tiny Percentage of effect, so small as to be ALMOST un-noticable, is true. There are, in a national election, some 90 million voters. So your individual vote has a worth (and it actually is a little different than this because it does vary state by state) of ~ 1/90,000,000.

      However, the Federal Budget is roughly (depending on what you take into account) some 3 TRILLION dollars. How that money get allocated is decided by the people you do or don't vote for.

      So, just a rough number to think about, your vote is worth 3 TRILLION/ 90 MILLION. Roughly 33 THOUSAND dollars.

      Now, you can argue about different things in that number, and whittle it up and down depending on how you look at it (entitlements, not being able to choose a canidate who exactly matches you, etc.). But to claim that it is RATIONAL to say your vote is worthless is just stupid.

      Anyone making such a claim is being stupid (or simply trying to discourage voters, which the republican party does a lot of, actually), and certainly shouldn't be modded anything other than troll (the effect of people encouraging others not to vote is that there is a disproportinate representation of wealthy people voting. The wealthy, tend to believe that their vote counts. And they turn out. And Vote. And it does. This is one of the reasons that while the country tends to identify as Democrats (by close to a 60/40 margin) The VOTING population breaks about even. This is one of the reasons that we have an embargo on Cuba (they Cuban Ex-Pats almost all vote).

  17. Re:kinda dumb by vux984 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Its neither.

    1) You don't 'index and share your songs via Kazaa', Kazaa et al, do tha all by themselves, without user intervention, in their default course of action. Many users aren't even aware 'they did it'.

    2) I've always liked the library analagy. Its a public building, open to the public, and full of books. Photocopiers are placed conveniently often even marked with signs --> photocopiers this way. The books are carefully organized to make them easy to find. And there are computers scattered around so you can look them up that way too.

    They've set everything up they possibly could to let you make copies. Yet if you do so, YOU are liable for infringement, not them.

    By analagy, if I set up a computer, put it in a public place (like the internet), with songs available on it, and also set it up with tools that will make copies of those songs for you if you send it the right commands.

    Now if you send my computer a command to transmit you a copy of the song... shouldn't YOU be liable for infringement? My computer isn't making copies and sending them out... YOU asked my computer to do it. All I did was set it up to listen to requests.

    How is that fundamentally different from a library? If I could somehow operate the library photocopier by remote from my computer, would that suddenly shift the blame for making copies to them? I should think not. Its still YOU who have (remotely) operated the copier to make an infringing copy.

    Finally, as a side note... if YOU own the CD in question, and feel its easier to download a copy using my publicly available computer to send you one, rather than ripping your own CD. Shouldn't that be legal. I as the computer owner have done nothing illegal by making it available. You have done nothing illegal because you have the right to make personal use copies of that song by virtue of the fact that you own a copy.

    Why or Why not does this 'theory' work?

    Finally if I charge you for access to my system that allows you to make copies am I a pirate then? Good question... interestingly, I still think not. If a library charges you .10c page to use their photocopier and makes you use some sort of 'printer card' that you prepay to fill... would that make them infringe? I doubt it...most libraries -do- charge for photocopies.

    So its only infringement if they start making the actual copies themselves. Setting up the equipment and letting you operate it, even if they charge you for access, doesn't make them liable for infringement.

    Although at some point you might argue that their is a conspiracy to commit infringement...

  18. Re:Ooops... by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 5, Interesting

    [W]hat do you think about how this ruling came about even though the defendant defaulted? As I understand it, it's NOT generally a good idea, but thanks to the oddities of RIAA litigation, those who have defaulted haven't done half bad in the cases I've seen, at least comparatively. Well I have no statistics, but it's clear that many, many cases in which the defendant defaulted have resulted in judgments against the defendant.

    However, you're absolutely right that some of the best rulings have come in default cases, which of course really has to make you wonder. Examples are Interscope v. Rodriguez, this case, and Atlantic v. Dangler.

    Thing is, in Dangler they came back with a reconsideration motion, there was still no one fighting back, and the judge was hoodwinked by the RIAA's mountain of phony papers, and went ahead and entered the judgment.

    I also liked that expert report from the other day. I really hope that information gets presented in court a lot more often. Yes, Prof. Pouwelse's report is a landmark event, and thoroughly exposes the RIAA's junk science as 'borderline incompetence'. (See discussion on Groklaw.)
    --
    Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
  19. Re:kinda dumb by Reziac · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Perzac'ly... whereas the RIAA was contending that "You have a vagina; therefore you are a hooker. Hands over your head!!"

    --
    ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  20. Re:kinda dumb by Hatta · · Score: 2, Insightful

    No, putting up the sign makes it "intent to distribute", which is not the same as having files in a publicly available folder.

    It's not? Come on now, I'm firmly anti-copyright, I believe that restricting the supply of an infinte resource is theft, but this argument is silly. MP3s don't share themselves.

    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  21. Fair Use by TwilightXaos · · Score: 2, Informative

    You are correct. The following are listed as forms of reproduction that are protected and exempt from copyright.

    Criticism
    Comment
    News Reporting
    Teaching(including multiple classroom copies)
    Scholarship
    Research

    Ref: Circular92: Copyright Law of the United States and Related laws contained in title 17 of the United States code.
    Circular92 Chapter 1 Section 107

  22. Re:kinda dumb by FredFredrickson · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That's a good point, except that the photocopier is there for other purposes- one of which could be copying books. But it's not placed there for that. It's placed there to make copies of anything that is legal to be copied.

    Now, a shared folder is there only to share copies of what's put in it. In fact, there are probably many other things that could be copied that aren't neccessarily under copyright- but if they're not in that folder- they're not going to get copied. You can show express intent with a folder with a single use VS a library copy machine that has many legit uses.

    And if you do set up limewire to send a friend who owns the CD the files, that's technically not against the law (I think..) but since you're using limewire, you aren't controlling who else may get access, so that'd be where the grey area starts..

    Anyway, good points. Mod parent up.

    --
    Belief? Hope? Preference?The Existential Vortex
  23. So now what? by RepelHistory · · Score: 2

    Does this decision in of itself have any real significance in terms of the RIAA's plethora of lawsuits? I'm not entirely sure how this works. Does this set precedent, or is the judge in question not high up enough in the hierarchy for this decision to become case law?

    I realize that every victory counts, but what I want to know is whether this will affect similar cases in the future.

    1. Re:So now what? by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Does this decision in of itself have any real significance in terms of the RIAA's plethora of lawsuits? I'm not entirely sure how this works. Does this set precedent, or is the judge in question not high up enough in the hierarchy for this decision to become case law? I realize that every victory counts, but what I want to know is whether this will affect similar cases in the future. I think it will be huge.
      --
      Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
  24. Re:kinda dumb by gnasher719 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Personally I'm curious what proof that a file has been downloaded the judge would like to see in future cases. The judge would need more than that: Proof that a file was _illegally_ downloaded. There is another problem here for the RIAA. If they send out a private investigator to find evidence of illegal copying, and the private investigator copies a song from your hard drive using Kazaa or whatever, then this is _not_ an illegal copy. He was doing this on behalf of and with the permission of the copyright owner, so there was no copyright infringement.

    Prosecution: "Your honour, the defendant repeatedly said in public that he was going to kill his wife, shoot her, cut her throat, poison her. What more evidence do you want that he murdered her?" Judge: "Maybe something like a dead body? His wife is sitting besides him, breathing quite normally, and I heard her snoring, so I won't find the defendant guilty".
  25. Where to now for the RI, "after the Gold Rush"? by NonCow · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Forgetting the RIAA for a moment, step back a few light years and think about the long history of music. In terms of centuries, this desparate troughing that the RI (recording industry) has managed over the last half century is like a burst of activity in the gold fields, then something fundamental changes and for some reason the Gold Rush ends. If the RI wants to stand in the middle of the deserted gold fields screaming "poor me", then so be it, but if a fundamental aspect of "gold production" has changed, then, sorry, but it's *over*. You (RI, RIAA et al) have to look for something else to do "after the Gold Rush", rather than try to sue the consumers for not buying *your* Gold anymore.
    So what about claims that the MI (music industry) is dead by association? This seems to be another illogical grab for air in a bid by the RI to survive. The MI has existed since the first huddle of cavemen got together, beat drums in time, and feasted with a dancing tribe. Music and the MI preceeded the RI gold rush and did quite well about it thank you very much. Musicians are artists and art is most often a matter of the heart searching for and finding expression. Cash is all well and good, but at the end of the day if payment for music is extinguished altogether, music will prevail irrespective. Art is not extinguished by poverty, so neither is music. Only greedy troughing is extinguished by poverty.
    Here's a tip: I play in a band. We're not too bad at what we do. We put smiles on faces every show and most of the time we cover our up front costs. We never cover our "hours" put in, and we don't care, because it's Art, and we all have day jobs anyway. And guess what? There's no greedy corporation troughing from *our* Art.

    1. Re:Where to now for the RI, "after the Gold Rush"? by oobi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      We are seeing the dawning of a new age, the end of an era.

      During the last depression, short-of-work/out-of-work men formed bands to suppliment their income. You played live, and got paid. Recorded music was nascent, and esentially used as advertising.

      Enter, the meddlemen. The meddlemen began to see the popularity of recorded music, and devised business models around it. These "wedgies" posited themselves between the listener and the artist, while taking a cut for themselves. The economy improved, and this masked decades of greed and villiany.

      Since recorded music did not require the physical presence of the meddlemen, they became rich and comfortable, staying at home while artists ran ragged all over the country and the world in an attempt to satiate the sudden explosion of music-fan hunger for all-natural auditory SSRIs.

      But like sound waves, there are peaks and troughs. New depressions. The wedgies have been exposed, and no longer are artists willing to tithe their blood and sweat to the meddlemen in such a disproportionate way. The pendulum swings back.

      Balance.

      --
      If Big Media is the Harvester of Eyes, does that make Apple an arms dealer?
    2. Re:Where to now for the RI, "after the Gold Rush"? by steelfood · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Before copyright, how did musicians and other artists make money? Well, they didn't make a terrible amount, but they usually got by. Around Bach's time and before, music was largely done in a religious context, as only the church had the need and the capital for musicians. In Hayden and Mozart's time, well-to-do people (nobles, wealthy merchants, etc.) commissioned works and hired composers and players. In Beethoven and Brahms' day, music was open to the general public, much like today.

      In all of these, there's one particular common theme that runs through the whole music "industry" since the renaissance: the people who made money were the ones who actually had unique talent that could not be reproduced. People went to see these performers because nobody else could do it quite like them. And, the music offered infinite variations, so that each concert may have been of the same piece, by the same players, but was a little different, perhaps more mature, perhaps more geared towards the audience. After all, allegro is not necessary 120 bpm, and there's no exact number to forte.

      And this is how classical music works today. Nobody owns the copyright to Beethoven's 5th or Mozart's Serenade in G. The interpretation, and the skill of the musician, is what makes the people money.

      So one could say, there's no reason why copyright is necessary for musicians to earn a living. It's a boon for them, and I think they deserve copyright over their works, but copyright infringement for non-commercial purposes does not take food off an artists' table. At least, not the ones who are truly skilled and hence truly deserve their fame and fortune.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
  26. Re:So uhm... why is this different? by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Hi Ray; You've mentioned a couple of times in this discussion that in the Capitol v. Thomas case the judge was wrong or made an error. That's strong wording, leaving me (a /.-er) with some questions. Is this "error" your opinion, or a legal fact? And if it's fact, is there an appeal in the works and/or can they appeal? Do judges bear any responsibility for making such errors? ...just trying to understand how something this basic can get two completely different rulings: it seems pretty clear to me that only one of the two rulings can be a correct interpretation of the law. I guess you could, theoretically, say it's an opinion, and that the RIAA has a different opinion. But the RIAA has no legal basis for its opinion, while I have a clearly worded statute, unanimity among all of the leading scholars, and decades of legal precedent to support my opinion. So when does expression of a solid opinion based on law become 'fact', and when does an opinion based on nothing become a 'lie'? You be the judge, but there is a point at which the expression of a frivolous opinion is so outlandish as to become false and misleading.

    Meanwhile, on the facts, the RIAA is always lying.

    As to how the judge made the error in the Thomas case, it's obvious:

    the RIAA lawyer was willing to say misleading things to the judge,

    Ms. Thomas's lawyer wasn't sufficientlyl prepared to rebut them, and

    the judge made the mistake of changing his mind in the heat of battle, instead of sticking with the decision he'd made beforehand when he and his staff had had enough time to do the requisite legal reading.
    --
    Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
  27. Re:So uhm... why is this different? by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So are judges in any way responsible this kind of error? Of course the judge is responsible. Judge Arterton had no help from the defendant's side at all; the defendant probably never even got the summons and complaint. But she took it upon herself to do the research, instead of just rubber stamping the RIAA's phony presentation.

    And isn't lying something lawyers should get disbarred for? Yes.
    --
    Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
  28. Re:kinda dumb by mea37 · · Score: 2

    1) I don't really buy the "user doesn't know" argument; it doesn't take a 4-year degree to know what kazaa is doing with the files you put in its share folders, and at some level a user is responsible for knowing something about the tools he or she employs. At best, I'd say that would come down to a case-by-case jury decision.

    2) The library analogy is seriously flawed. Let's say you decide to copy an entire book using library photocopiers, at $0.10 per page. You'll typically pay more than a new copy would cost, and the copy you get will be pretty low quality; so I don't really see how the library has given you "everything you need" to get illegal copies of their books.

    You'll also need quite a bit of time for this project, and may be told to stop and/or kicked out of the library before you can complete it. Oh, the staff might not bother -- librarians don't always feel like they're paid enough for that kind of confrontation -- but if you check the library's policy, you'll probably find that they're supposed to. (You might also notice signs around the copier that put you on notice that you're supposed to obey copyright law, though that detail depends on the library.)

    See, unlike kazaa shares, the purpose of library photocopiers isn't copyright violation. The purpose of library copiers includes things like "fair use", which is legal (though the RIAA would love for you to forget that fact). For example, copying a few pages of a reference book for academic purposes is legal. The copiers are well suited to this purpose (in much the way that they are not well suited to wholesale copyright violation).

  29. Re:kinda dumb by JesseMcDonald · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'm pretty sure that the scale and (lack of) money involved doesn't make a difference - copyright infringement is a criminal offense.

    Check your facts. The primary differences between civil and criminal infringement in the U.S. are commercial intent and scale:

    Section 506 (a) Criminal Infringement. --

    (1) In general. -- Any person who willfully infringes a copyright shall be punished as provided under section 2319 of title 18, if the infringement was committed --

    (A) for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain;

    (B) by the reproduction or distribution, including by electronic means, during any 180-day period, of 1 or more copies or phonorecords of 1 or more copyrighted works, which have a total retail value of more than $1,000; or

    ...

    Not that I support the law -- I'm fully anti-copyright -- but your assertion was nonetheless in error.

    P.S. I also found it interesting that there's also a statute of limitations on copyright infringement, three years for civil proceeding and five for criminal: Section 507.

    --
    "The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
  30. Re:Spread those mod points wider! by ZachPruckowski · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Alternatively, it's because he can speak with some authority. Many of his posts are thoughtful, insightful paragraphs that educate the average /.-er. And even the ones which are just single-word answers benefit from his experience and reputation. This is not uncommon when you have other notable people commenting in articles relevant to their expertise, people like Jimbo Wales or Bruce Perens.

    It's not a factor of them being upmodded because of who they are, but rather being upmodded because their expertise and commentary is relevant and benefits the community of readers as a whole. It's perfectly possible to have this phenomenon arise because of a person's situation as opposed to position or reputation, such as if a person was on Slashdot in the middle of a major event like a terrorist attack and offering a crucial and unique perspective.

  31. Re:kinda dumb by CitizenJohnJohn · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Copyright law does not distinguish, in defining "distribute", between copies paid for vs. copies given away for free"

    You could argue that there's a good reason for that. When copyright law was developed, it was impossible to make large numbers of copies of something for negligible cost. Therefore, it was a reasonable assumption that anyone making multiple copies of a book or vinyl album or even a CD was doing so to sell them. Copyright law is all about stopping that from happening, which is why it appears to some to be so unjust when applied to free distribution.

  32. Devil's Advocate by Michael+Woodhams · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'll play Devils Advocate here.

    The argument is that the RIAA needs to prove *actual* harm (copying) took place, rather than just creating a significant potential for harm. However, there are many instances in law where creating the potential for harm is punishable, without actual harm.

    Here are some examples. Speeding is illegal because excessive speed creates a much higher chance of damage, injury and death. It is not necessary to show actual damage, injury or death was caused by a speeding motorist to charge them. Releasing carcinogens into the environment is (should be?) illegal, even though we can't prove whether a specific case of cancer in an exposed individual would or would not have occured without the exposure. Distribution of child pornography is illegal because of the harm done to children in producing it, and because it may prompt "consumers" to harm children. In a given case of C.P. distribution, it is not necessary to demonstrate that a child was harmed in the production, that the production would not have occured without this instance of distribution, or that a user of the material harmed a child in response to viewing it.

    It seems to me that punishing "potential harm" is justifiable under certain circumstances:
    * If the harm is large but rare, and if the harm does occur, the at-fault person is not able to make full restitution. (Speeding would fit into this category.)
    * If the harm is real, but it is very difficult to connect any instance of actual harm to a specific instance of increased-chance-of-causing-harm behaviour. (Releasing carcinogens fits into this category, as does any 'many small polluters' situation.)

    The 'making available' theory clearly does not fall into the first justifiable category. Whether it falls into the second category is open to argument. There is at least a case to be made that it does - showing that a work was made available *and* that somebody took advantage of that availability is technically challenging, and would probably require allowing a level of snooping which we don't wish to allow anyone except police with a search warrent.

    Having said that, I think that the decision on whether a "potential harm" should be punishable is in the domain of politics. Generally, it shouldn't be punishable unless a law specifically says it is. The RIAA may be legally wrong here, but that is not the same as saying a law which made them right would be a bad law.

    IANAL.

    --
    Quattuor res in hoc mundo sanctae sunt: libri, liberi, libertas et liberalitas.
  33. the making available thing is like blaming... by BlueshiftVFX · · Score: 2, Funny

    The making available argument is like blaming shop keepers for having goods available in their stores that could be readily stolen. It's not the theifs fault, look the store just had them sitting there!

  34. Re:So uhm... why is this different? by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Does this decision in of itself have any real significance in terms of the RIAA's plethora of lawsuits? I'm not entirely sure how this works. Does this set precedent, or is the judge in question not high up enough in the hierarchy for this decision to become case law? I realize that every victory counts, but what I want to know is whether this will affect similar cases in the future. Absolutely. It's not binding, but its reasoning is impeccable, so why not?
    --
    Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
  35. Not So Fast by JackSpratts · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I've been saying this for years - even pre-Napster - that you can't be liable for distributing if you aren't actually distributing, but I think in this instance file-sharers might hold off popping the champagne corks. The judge's concern seems to be more about facts than philosophy, i.e. whether or not distribution can take place in a passive sense isn't directly at issue here. What is instead is can a record company successfully sue a defendant for offering files merely by presenting screen shots of titles in a share folder? That other judges have missed this speaks volumes, but unless I'm mistaken, my careful Connecticut neighbor isn't saying a transfer has to be actively sent by the defendant, she's saying that in this particular case, the plaintiff hadn't met the burden that a transfer occurred at all.

    - js.

  36. Re:Spread those mod points wider! by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    even the ones which are just single-word answers benefit from his experience I'm happy for my comments to be modded up or down, or neither, based entirely on their substance. I don't want points for my experience or reputation. I don't think I should be punished for brevity any more than I should be rewarded for verbosity. I speak to the Slashdot community pretty much the way I speak to the judges. I assume (a) you are busy people with no time to waste and (b) if I don't give you a straight answer to a simple question, you will assume -- correctly -- that I'm trying to conceal rather than reveal the truth. (Also, I'm kind of busy these days, having an army of clones to fight in court.)
    --
    Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
  37. Re:Doc INAL by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Wow, I've never seen so many replies to an article by its own poster. I guess you haven't seen my interview.

    What can I tell you? I'm weak. I'm really too busy to be doing this stuff, but the dialogue on Slashdot is just something I really enjoy and look forward to. It's fun for me.
    --
    Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
  38. Re:Non-mutuial Collateral Estoppel by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 4, Funny

    Three little words: Non-mutuial Collateral Estoppel.

    Your big words must be a bitch.

    --
    Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
  39. Re:Clueless. by kiddailey · · Score: 3, Informative

    Maybe because that "quite a bit of support" has translated into zero electoral success? You can't blame the media for the voters rejecting Ron Paul in small elections (read: Iowa and New Hampshire) where he had the ability to campaign on an individual and town-hall level. I know it's popular in the Ron Paul camp to blame the media for all your woes but has it ever occurred to you that the voting public rejected his philosophy?

    Are you kidding?

    You can keep stating that all you want, but it doesn't make it any more true.

    His philosophies were not heard and the only ones rejecting it were the main stream media outlets making the decision for you. The public was never given the opportunity to reject his philosophies. For that matter, the public was never given the opportunity to reject a handful of the other candidates philosophies either.

    And do you really believe that the majority of voters travel to stump speeches to make up their minds about the candidate? This isn't the 1800s anymore - the vast majority form their opinion based on what they hear from TV, radio and print.

    It's popular to blame the media because THEY are the entity that uses their power to shape public opinion. And they have, almost 100% of the time since day 1 of campaign coverage, excluded Ron Paul when listing/talking about the candidates. The have, since the beginning, called him and his supporters names and stated he has no chance.

    Yet you think I'm unjustified in saying that these actions don't have any impact on popular opinion?

    You are naive:

  40. Re:kinda dumb by aproposofwhat · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Arguably, in the P2P scenario, none of the distribution criteria are met - we can certainly strike out sales, licenses and leases immediately, lending implies that the lender is deprived of the goods for the period of the loan, and expects the goods to be returned, and P2P sharing doesn't transfer ownership, it effectively multiplies ownership.

    I would argue that no transfer of ownership takes place, because the original copy that the sharer has remains in place.

    Another weakness is that all that is transferred is a copy of the file, which in the case of most P2P transactions isn't a copy of the original CD file anyway but a compressed version of that file, so it is a moot point as to whether the copyrighted work itself is being shared.

    Keep up the good work, Ray - I'm in the UK but follow your progress with great interest, especially with the ludicrous proposal over here that ISPs should disconnect users accused of file sharing merely on the recording industry's say-so.

    --
    One swallow does not a fellatrix make
  41. Re:kinda dumb by Reziac · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You're wearing a miniskirt, how much more available can you get?

    (Ie. "you're online, so you must be making files available!")

    --
    ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  42. Mod New York Country Lawyer Up by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Every New York Country Lawyer post should be marked INFORMATIVE +1, because they are.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."