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BattleBots & ESPN Strike TV Deal

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the hope-the-hosts-are-good dept.

NMajik writes "Although BattleBots has been largely removed from the public eye since episodes stopped airing years ago, a new deal has recently been struck with ESPN to return combat robots to the living room. Episodes will be broadcast as a series on ESPNU and ESPN2 after filmed at the competition in June 2008. This is the first notable progress towards televised combat robotics in years."

26 of 120 comments (clear)

  1. pretty sure by deathtopaulw · · Score: 5, Funny

    we're way past stirke three with the editors inability to edit

    1. Re:pretty sure by DotNetFreak · · Score: 2, Funny

      One does wonder: How many stirkes is allowed per edirot. :D

  2. Ah but it's fun to speculate... by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 2, Interesting

    o Is liquid nitrogen legal? o What about high voltage? o Blue-tack? o What's the maximum weight of demolition hammer allowed? o Are battle-bots allowed to be equipped with smooth bore cannon? o Are capacitor-fed tack welders permitted? o Cowboy Neal?

    --
    Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    1. Re:Ah but it's fun to speculate... by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 4, Funny

      o Why o Why is my text not formatted correctly?

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    2. Re:Ah but it's fun to speculate... by blackwing0013 · · Score: 2, Funny

      How about equiping a robot with EMP?

    3. Re:Ah but it's fun to speculate... by PhireN · · Score: 3, Informative
      FTA:

      New Experimental Class
      For both competitions, BattleBots would like to open the door to a new "anything goes," experimental class. There are NO rules and NO weights for this class. So the answer is yes, as long as you enter into the experimental class, otherwise check the rules.
    4. Re:Ah but it's fun to speculate... by Torvaun · · Score: 4, Informative

      This guy is going to kick ass in the experimental class.

      The rules are here, if you don't mind pdfs.

      Weapon types that aren't allowed in the normal class include electricity and electromagnetic weapons (no EMP or Tesla coils), weapons that require significant cleanup (sand, oil, liquids, ball bearings), weapons intended to obscure vision (smoke, strobe lights), thermal weapons (no explosives or cutting torches, although you can use explosives to, say, drive a piston), mechanism fouling weapons (nets, tarps, caltrops), and no mutually destructive mechanisms.

      There are also restricted weapons. Projectiles are allowed, but must be on a tether of no more than 8' in length. Covering weapons are allowed, but must be rigid and controllable. Airbags are allowed, but must conform to the rules for pneumatics, and can't be used as mechanism fouling weapons when deflated. Flywheels need to be installed properly, so that they don't fly off or apart while spinning. Large springs (20 lbs of force to extend or compress) need to be armed by the bot, not manually, and need to be able to be released manually without causing damage to the person doing the releasing.

      --
      I see your informative link, and raise you a pithy comment.
    5. Re:Ah but it's fun to speculate... by Merk · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think more important than what's allowed on the robots is what kind of surface will they be playing on. When they're played on very smooth, very flat surfaces, it becomes all about wedges and flippers. Every robot has a skirt with less than 1cm clearance on all sides, and the winners are the ones that can slip under that skirt.

      If they changed it so that the games were played on uneven, non smooth surfaces, maybe even some dirt/grass, water, etc. you'd have to have exposed wheels / tracks. Wedges / flippers would no longer have a massive advantage.

      Survival of the fittest in robot fighting competitions is, like all other survival of the fittest contests, based on the environment. If the environment is varied enough that one niche player can't dominate everything, you'll get much more interesting fights, and much more variety in design.

    6. Re:Ah but it's fun to speculate... by MattHawk · · Score: 3, Informative

      Part of the reason for things being banned is a simple matter of safety. I've competed at several robot combat events with a middleweight, and even with the extremely strict safety rules and the high tech arenas, some of them are freaking dangerous. I've been within a few feet of an arena breach at one point, where some of the heavier robots hit a wall hard enough to come up over the safety stop and almost go through the bulletproof Lexan arena wall (fortunately neither robot managed to come clear out of the arena, but they knocked a wall section out and very nearly did). There have also been incidents of robots with cutting weapons putting holes clear through the wall (and at least one incident I know of where a robot put a hole in a 1/2" thick steel plate that was part of the arena safety system). The safety crew at the events takes these things very seriously - the fight IMMEDIATELY stops if there's any threat of the arena being breached, and the robots are disabled until the situation can be evaluated, but that's with the limited scope of the current rules - many of the things people would love to see in the robots would be damn near impossible to do safely around an audience.

      Even if there isn't an audience, there's still the crews to think about. People have to work around the robots to repair them (many of the rules involve safeguarding the robot when it's around people), and to load them into and out of the arena. Also, some of these robots get torn up pretty badly, hence rules relating to making sure the robots aren't hazardous to clean up after they've gotten heavily damaged.

  3. not robots by Jafafa+Hots · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Its mildly cool and all, but I'm sorry, remote controlled vehicles are not robots. They're kind of the complete opposite of robots.

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    This space available.
    1. Re:not robots by Stripe7 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      UAV's and other military robots are remote piloted, some are 100% remotely controlled others are semi-autonomous, we still call them all robots. The Battle-Bots are generally 100% remotely controlled, but as robot reflexes become faster than human ones, the Battle Bots will change and become more and more autonomous. Who knows, maybe the inspiration for a future War-Bot may be found in the Arena one day. What I find interesting is that Americans prefer their robots form to follow function whereas the Japanese prefer humaniform robots.

    2. Re:not robots by BabySledge · · Score: 2, Insightful

      True enough..They are not robots. But they could very well be the bodies for robots. This show changed my interests from electronics to robotics and I have been back in school ever since. This show/format could produce a viable sport. As it is the original(American) spawned groups across the nation to form and compete with smaller more affordable (non autonomous(ro)BOTS. There were even a few tries at semi or fully autonomous bot battles. Hopefully it will stick around for a while this time. The USA needs something like this to spur robotics development, because right now we are a long way behind Japan, China, and Korea.

  4. Joe Rogan by LeRaldo · · Score: 2

    I sure hope Joe Rogan does commentary again. The guy is really good, and hilarious as well.

  5. Awesome by EdIII · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I missed that show. My father and I did not connect on a lot of things, but robots thrashing the crap out of each other was something we could both share....

    That and Betelgeuse from the Howard Stern show.

  6. About time! by iansmith · · Score: 4, Interesting

    My friends and I always thought that BattleBots on Comedy Central was a bad idea.

    The humor was funny, but the sportscasting was awful. Weird stats, rarly any good discussion over what happened or any more details. The after-fight interviews were pretty much just, "How did you feel about winning?". And the crazy stats and numbers rarely had any relation to the judges scores, which were glossed over and never explained.

    We always wished ESPN would have shown it.. THEY at least know how to host a sporting event. Hopefully they will treat Battle Bots just like any other sport this time around, explaining judge decisions, giving people a better idea of why someone wins, focusing on the exciting parts more than long, long clips about someones garage.

    Here's to hoping we get lucky and ESPN doesn't screw it up this time around. :-)

    1. Re:About time! by Matrix2110 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      ...My friends and I always thought that BattleBots on Comedy Central was a bad idea.

      If ESPN treats the sport at least half as well as NBC did with American Gladiators, We may be in for a treat!

      ESPN has a rep to keep up, and sports show crews tend to be fanatics. So there is much upside.

    2. Re:About time! by hal2814 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "ESPN has a rep to keep up"

      A rep to keep up? They show Scrabble tournaments!!! I saw a dominoes tourney on there once. I've also seen darts and billiards. If you've seen any of those, you'd notice the coverage crews were anything but fanatic or even enthusiastic.

    3. Re:About time! by kalirion · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The worst part is that only one or two types of bots ever got anywhere. There were some very imaginative and cool designs, but none that could compete with a simple wedge.

  7. Honestly... by xzaph · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I always preferred Robotica over BattleBots - the former had interesting courses and whatnot that made things less monotonous than BattleBot's "WWE"-style straight up fight.

  8. Robot Wars... by Wizard+Drongo · · Score: 4, Informative

    Dunno if any of you over the other side of the pond ever got this show, it stopped in 2003, and was presented by Craig Charles (oh he of Red Dwarf fame).
    Was an awesome program, with a whole load of different teams, ranging from a 13 year old girl with her Dad to a major university grad team and a Army engineers team.
    Was pretty decent in it's day. Maybe they should bring this back.

    --
    The truth shall always be free: Boris Floricic is Tron.
  9. Re:boring by Bazman · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Until some real new idea comes out. On the UK 'Robot Wars' it was turning into a battle of the flippers v the axes, until innovations like HypnoDisc and Gemini appeared. HypnoDisc had a heavy horizontal spinning disk with blades, and a very low CoG. It span up until it had masses of angular momentum, and then all the other robots just bounced off it with massive gashes. Version 1 was liable to being flipped, but in the next series they added a self-righting mechanism. Gemini was a 'clusterbot': the robot split into two independent parts, each with a flipper. Combined they were below the weight limit so it was all legal. Other bots found themselves facing two small light flippers, and so couldn't use the usual tactic of pointing their dangerous end at the opponent.

  10. jeez.... by Elsapotk421 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I can get fighting robots, but would it kill you to play rugby espn.

    --
    We came,we saw, we kicked it's ass!
  11. And for all you Battletech fans... by AceMarkE · · Score: 3, Funny

    Next up on ESPN: Davion vs Steiner, live from Solaris VII!

    (maybe we should get these guys involved to speed up the process).

  12. How to improve the show by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Since I'm happily employed and unlikely to end up as an advisor for the show, I'll throw in a few words of advice for ESPN.

    1. Do something about the wedge/flipper bots. There are plenty of methods to deal with them that don't involve a simple ban on the design type. But trust me when I say that BattleBots was being done in by what appeared to be a never ending supply of squat cheese wedges.

    Why spend time engineering a novel robot when you could stick a motor and a hydraulic arm into a wedge and have a good chance at winning?

    2. Give them a real amount of time to fight. Comedy Central tried to cram the whole tournament into something that was far to short. Let the damned things fight.

    2.1: Let the damned things fight. The course doesn't need to be 'extreme' and deadly. Sure, put in a few obstacles but don't turn the course into a third opponent. Nothing like watching a good battle only to see one opponent DQ'd after some goofy piece of scenery flips over for no reason.

    Imagine watching a UFC match. The opponents have separated after an amazing show on the mat. They are circling one another, knowing that if they show the other any opening that it will be taken advantage of. This is a fight to go down in history books gentlemen. I haven't seen one like this since... Opps, there goes the trap door. Bob Tartarsky wins.

    3. It doesn't need to be the WWF/WWE to be entertaining. No need for over the top announcers that act like 8 yr olds on meth. Keep the commentary on topic and interesting, not loud and idiotic.

    4. This one follows number 3. We can get our bikini babes on the internet, you are not SPIKE tv.

    5. Give a reasonable stipend to the robots that compete. These things are expensive, but are expected to enter into a fight where their entire investment could be flushed away. The designer of the robot shouldn't have to be a wiz at getting sponsorship. Don't ban sponsorship, but give the anti-social geeks a chance.

    6. Consider price caps in addition to weight restrictions. I'd be interested in seeing the $10k robots fight the $10k robots.

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    Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
    1. Re:How to improve the show by Chris+Burke · · Score: 2, Insightful

      1. Do something about the wedge/flipper bots. There are plenty of methods to deal with them that don't involve a simple ban on the design type. But trust me when I say that BattleBots was being done in by what appeared to be a never ending supply of squat cheese wedges.

      I think the best way to deal with it is just for the bots to evolve. There were plenty of wedge-resistant bots showing up in later seasons, and it doesn't necessarily have to dictate the entire design. A lot of bot makers were too into making the kind of bot they wanted to make, without worrying about its vulnerabilities. If your bot is vulnerable to a simple wedge, then that's a pretty big problem.

      I do remember some of the stronger flipper bots (Torro was one iirc, there were other designs from the same group in other weight classes) causing major problems, simply because with the power of their hydraulic flipper even wedge-resistant bots that could operate inverted had a hard time after being tossed five feet into the air repeatedly.

      2.1: Let the damned things fight. The course doesn't need to be 'extreme' and deadly. Sure, put in a few obstacles but don't turn the course into a third opponent. Nothing like watching a good battle only to see one opponent DQ'd after some goofy piece of scenery flips over for no reason.

      I kind of disagree. I think the biggest problem with at least the BattleBots arena was that the hazards weren't potent enough. Those little saws wouldn't do much damage and would only flip over the most top-heavy of bots. The only ones that had a reasonable chance of causing damage were the screws on the edges. So you'd have one bot that was a "control" type of bot, and would essentially be able to cart the other bot around the arena, and hold it over the saws which would do... nothing. Pretty disappointing for what otherwise appeared to be the superior bot/driver combination.

      If you want to liken it to UFC, think of it being like a submission hold... except because your opponent is metal, squeezing them in a full nelson while pressing their face into the mat isn't very effective.

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      The enemies of Democracy are
    2. Re:How to improve the show by Fifth+Earth · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Speaking as someone who has actually competed in Battlebots, I'll address some of your questions.

      1: It's a legitimate concern, one that crops up time and again in the builder community. The simple answer is, basically nothing can be done about it. We want to encourage everyone to join the sport, including people who don't have an extreme amount of technical skill, and a wesgebot is the simplest kind to build. Many teams build a wedge for their first robot, just to "learn the ropes", and then go on to build other more complex and interesting designs. We can't get rid of the wedges without scaring new competitors off, and in the end, I think it's worth it.

      However, Re: the hydraulic arm, you're misunderstanding a couple things. First, I only know of two robots in the entire sport that ever used real hydraulics (not to say there aren't more, but it's extremely rare). You're probably thing either of pneumatics, or, more commonly, just regular linear electric actuators. The former is very hard to use and should never be denigrated as too easy (or boring for that matter--see Inertia Labs, The Judge and Ziggy, for example). The latter is relatively easy, but see above, and give the team credit for making a 'bot that actually does something instead of being a totally basic ramming wedge.

      2: Time is money. Everyone would like to have more matches and more fighting, but it isn't cheap to run a tournament, and it isn't cheap for the teams to be at the tournament competing. Of course, better prizes and more publicity for sponsorship would fix some of this.

      2.1: Yes. Most tournaments these days have very minimalist arenas, and most builders like it that way.

      3: Yes.

      4: Are you male? EVERYTHING needs bikini babes.

      5: If ESPN can afford it, sure. but I doubt they're willing to shell out. On the other hand, ESPN coverage will be a tremendous boon for sponsorship deals. Nobody is sponsoring these days (even though for most companies a significant sponsorship deal would be a drop in the bucket) because nobody sees the competitions, but international coverage would certainly do the trick.

      6: They'd have to calibrated to each other i.e. weight class AND price. I could easily make an indestructible half-ton wedge for $10k, and that would be stupid.

      For my own part, I'm worried about the experimental class. As someone who has seen and been close to these things, the current crop of superheavyweight shell spinner robots genuinely scare me. In all honesty, the current standards of arena design are already not totally safe for these things to be fighting in. Any significantly larger version of these robots with the same design, which seems probable, would be quite simply a danger to the audience and everyone else around it, even within the arena. Now, I'm all for Mechadon coming out of retirement, but if I was in charge, I wouldn't let (for example) a 500-pound shell spinner actually fight in anything resembling a conventional arena.