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Fingerprint-Protected USB Sticks Cracked

juct writes "Manufacturers of USB sticks and cards with fingerprint readers promise us that their data safes can only be opened with the right fingerprint. In their tests, heise Security found that it is easy to bypass the authentication and get access to the protected data. This works by sending a single USB command, using the open source tool PLscsi, that changes the accessible partition. They found the vulnerability in several USB sticks that use the same chipset. The article concludes: 'The fingerprint sensors in the products mentioned above apparently only serve one purpose: they mislead interested buyers. They do not provide any significant level of protection. We can only recommend that these products not be purchased.'"

166 comments

  1. Fingerprint scanners suck. by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've never seen a fingerprint system that was worth a damn...I was doing consulting at a company a few years back that had the "pad style" thumb readers (rather than the little scanners that are more popular now), and I "hacked" one of them for the company director by taking a deep breath and breathing on it. Warm breath condenses on the previous fingerprint and heats up the temperature sensor, and voila.

    Now I had garlic pizza for lunch, so there is more than one reason that would have worked, but the fact that it did work was more than enough to convince me of the worthlessness of the tech. They had a Mythbusters episode a while back where they were fooling fingerprint readers with xeroxes and rubber casts; again, a huge glaring flaw.

    At this point, security is still about passwords. I haven't seen any consumer grade biometric I'd trust with my MySpace profile (if I ever make one), more less anything sensitive.

    --
    ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    1. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by Brian+Gordon · · Score: 1

      That's exactly why those slider scanners are so popular nowadays. I also am dubious about the technology because I don't understand it as well as such a simple and effective scheme as a password, but if you lock down your data with volume encryption and encrypt it with your fingerprint data on a TPM then I can't think of any way your data could be recovered from a stolen hard drive.

    2. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by explosivejared · · Score: 4, Funny

      As I've pointed out in previous post, you won't be truly secure until you can completely incinerate any non-authorized individual who touches the drive. Even passwords fall short. Encryption, biometrics, etc... pfft... you're not safe unless annihilation is ensured.

      --
      I got a catholic block.
    3. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by Pharmboy · · Score: 1

      but if you lock down your data with volume encryption and encrypt it with your fingerprint data

      Isn't that like using a deadbolt lock AND the little clasp on the screen door? Yes, the clasp is a "lock" just like the fingerprint scanner, but it isn't really the "secure" part of the solution.

      --
      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    4. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Depends on whether you left a print on the hard drive when you installed it. =P

      The scanners are still foolable. They did it on mythbusters without much trouble...I think they lifted a print, photoshopped it to make it look "cleaner", printed it out, licked the paper, and ran it over the scanner.

      Passwords are much more secure at this point. No one is going to steal your password off an old soda bottle.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    5. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 1

      You mean I can't leave my last will and testament on this thing if I plan to be cremated?

    6. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by l2718 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Isn't that like using a deadbolt lock AND the little clasp on the screen door? Yes, the clasp is a "lock" just like the fingerprint scanner, but it isn't really the "secure" part of the solution.
      This is completely unlike that. This is more like replacing a physical key with a keycard. Still same lock technology, just different way to open the lock. If the data is stored on the USB stick in the clear, with the fingerprint only used through an authentication mechanism, then reading the memory directly can get the data (say by physically taking the memory chips out of the stick and putting them in another stick). You don't need to know the fingerprint. On the other hand, if you use the fingerprint as an encryption key for the data, it does help. It means that an attacker has to know the fingerprint. The fingerprint reader saves you the bother of memorizing the encryption key.
    7. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by tepples · · Score: 3, Interesting

      On the other hand, if you use the fingerprint as an encryption key for the data, it does help. It means that an attacker has to know the fingerprint. I assume that you're talking about treating a hash of a fingerprint scan as an encryption key. But no two scans of one fingerprint are identical pixel for pixel. If you scan one thumb ten times, you get ten different hashes. Therefore, software that compares fingerprints must use some sort of fuzzy matching. What algorithm would you suggest using to turn 100 different scans of the same thumb into the same key every time?
    8. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by MyLongNickName · · Score: 4, Funny

      Passwords are much more secure at this point. No one is going to steal your password off an old soda bottle.

      My password is "Dr. Pepper" you insensitive clod!

      --
      See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
    9. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny


      Passwords are much more secure at this point. No one is going to steal your password off an old soda bottle.


      Good point. They would have to get it from the yellow sticky note on the side of my monitor.

    10. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by Kandenshi · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If you really were a Dr Pepper fan, you'd know that there is no period/fullstop in the name. :P

      Just check the wikipedia article, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Pepper#Name_formatting, or look at one of your many cases of Dr Pepper if you don't believe me.

      That said, quite a few people use stupid passwords. My own for /. is itself moderately secure, but I've used it for many different websites I don't really worry about too much. That weakens it a bit. Someone, somewhere, probably DOES have DrPepper as a password. There are worse things I suppose, but I'm hardly shocked to hear that fingerprint scanners have yet more flaws in them.

      They're the exact same as most security measures. They make you feel secure while providing only limited Actual Security. A fingerprint scanner on my media would be sufficient to slow down any random person who tries to see what I've got on my HDD. That might be enough for me. Is anyone using a thumbprint scanner as the only security measure on stuff they really truly definitely do want kept private and secure? :\ Seems improbable.

    11. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by l2718 · · Score: 1

      Here's one idea: store the low-order bits of the fingerprint on the card, in plain text, and get the high-order bits from the scanner. More technically, use error-correction ideas: store some information on the card such that, given a fuzzy fingerprint allows you to correct errors in it, but that by itself doesn't give the fingerprint. Your question should be phrased as follows: "how many bits on information can be reliably recovered from a fingerprint?". I'm sure the answer is positive; but I agree it's not obvious that the the answer is large enough for a strong encryption key.

    12. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      A scan of a fingerprint is never exactly the same twice, thus it is useless as a cryptographic key...
      The most it can do, is provide a "close enough" match to a program which will then provide the actual key. Since this is just a program, you can simply hack it to provide you with the key regardless of what input is fed to it, or just write your own program to retrieve the key from wherever it's stored.
      A fingerprint is as poor a form of authentication as a signature, all for show while not providing any real security.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    13. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by agristin · · Score: 1

      Hey, that is my password too!!

    14. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by sqldr · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Glad you were able to hack it. I had problems with fingerprint readers for exactly the opposite reason. I could never get into the data centre. Each time, I would have my print rescanned, and it would work for about 5 minutes, until the following week, possibly due to the fact that I was destroying my fingers with regular guitar playing at the time, it couldn't recognise me.

      --
      I wrote my first program at the age of six, and I still can't work out how this website works.
    15. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by Hawkeye05 · · Score: 2, Informative

      The Fingerprint readers on Thinkpads' Require electrical signals and also a pulse, so they arent that easy to circumvent, i wouldnt trust it with my life, since i dont encrypt my drive, but its good enough.

      --
      Http://Stineomite.org (Yeah Thats Right I'm An Organization)
    16. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by njh · · Score: 2, Funny

      "how many bits of information can be reliably recovered from a fingerprint?". I'm sure the answer is positive;

      I'm certain it's not negative :)

    17. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by dbrez8 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      mpapet is correct. I work on the development team of a company that manufactures Biometric USB drives. there are many many low-end drives on the market that, as this article states, are not secure at all. You can use the attack they speak of or attack the flash chip directly in most cases. There are a few quality products on the market, including our own, that do use strong security principals to make sure attacks like these are not possible. To say that these issues effect all biometric USB devices, and that they should not be used, is simply false.

    18. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by Belial6 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      My biggest problem with finger print locks is that they use only my finger to open them, and I don't want someone using my finger to open a lock when I'm not there. A good rule of thumb is that you should never lock anything with a finger print that is more valuable to a thief than your finger is to you, or that is harder to crack than cutting off your fingers.

      This is why I don't ever want a car with fingerprint locks. Pretty much the same for laptops. I am going to put a fingerprint reader on my pool gate though, as it will be easier for someone to just kick the gate open, or jump the gate than it is for them to mug me and take my fingers.

    19. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by halcyon1234 · · Score: 1

      That's what lackies are for. "Hey, Merv, touch that for me, will you?" *zzz*. "Hey, Johnson, touch that for me, will you?"

    20. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by xZgf6xHx2uhoAj9D · · Score: 1

      Dude, if some thief threatened to cut my fingers off, I'd give him the damn password. If there's anything in your life right now that's password protected and worth more than your fingers, you're living your life wrong.

    21. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by Argilo · · Score: 1

      How about a fuzzy extractor?

    22. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by Loconut1389 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The way I understood it's supposed to happen is to track the whorls and whatnot as points. It's supposed to be more than a simple image comparison. I thought good biometrics software mapped out a set of relevant points and kept those as a hash to store on your smart-card or whatever so that you can't recreate the print.

    23. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      "Do you not get it, lads? The Irish are the blacks of Europe. And Dubliners are the blacks of Ireland. And the Northside Dubliners are the blacks of Dublin. So say it once, say it loud: I'm black and I'm proud."

      --Jimmy Rabbitte, The Commitments

      Black and proud, baby. Black and proud.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    24. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by flyingsquid · · Score: 3, Insightful
      That said, quite a few people use stupid passwords. My own for /. is itself moderately secure, but I've used it for many different websites I don't really worry about too much. That weakens it a bit.

      Adding a few numbers or characters should buy you a fair amount of security, for instance, "DrPepper!!!" or "DrPepper732" should be harder to guess than "DrPepper". The problem is that you can go too far. You could require, for instance, that passwords be at least 12 characters long and contain at least one uppercase letter, one lowercase letter, one number, and one non-alphanumeric symbol, e.g. "DrPepper732!?". The problem is that you've got multiple passwords- one for work, one for Amazon.com, one for online banking, one for /., etc. etc. so it becomes virtually impossible to remember the damn things. Now what? People have to start writing them down, and posting them next to the machine. A huge part of the security of passwords comes from the fact that it's not physically written down; as soon as you have to record it instead of keeping it in your memory, your overall level of security is going down, even if the password is getting harder to crack.

    25. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by u8i9o0 · · Score: 5, Informative

      But no two scans of one fingerprint are identical pixel for pixel. If you scan one thumb ten times, you get ten different hashes.

      Then that's not the way it should be done. For one thing, while the angle of the print may change, the relative size will not.

      I think you can create fingerprints based off of a formula. All you need is to supply a set of variable coefficients. The hash would be that set of coefficients for your formula.

      It's been a very long time since I had studied fingerprints, and that was rather cursory.

      From what I know, every print has at least one point. The alternative is that some prints have ridges going straight across, which doesn't sound right to me.

      - Focus on the most prominent one or the one ranked highest in priority.
      - Measure the distances between unique points and their angles relative to each other.
      - A left loop will always be a left loop no matter the rotation, and has an apex.
      - Same with a tented arch, except it will also have a triangular shape.
      - A whorl has two epicenters of a given distance.

      I never worked in the field, but the above plan seems obvious to me. I also don't have a large sample set to help refine that formula - maybe having two whorls or two similar loops or some other combo never happens.

      With any authentication, the important thing is that it be easy to produce the key and make it very hard to fake it. Therefore, the biggest problem with fingerprint authentication is that the user keeps leaving their key everywhere they touch. It's like mentioning your passwords in plaintext within every conversation you have. One solution may be to use toeprints instead.
      --
      This is not my sig
    26. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by Khyber · · Score: 2, Informative

      Excuse me? The readers do not require a pulse. They do require some sort of moisture to activate the sensor, but a pulse is just bullshit. I'm responsible for replacing the damned things for a large laptop repair company and I also own a thinkpad with biometrics, so I can easily say that requiring a pulse is BS. Obtaining a pulse from the fingertip is near-impossible. You have to get to the second joint of the finger where the skin is thinner.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    27. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by ohtani · · Score: 1

      > If you really were a Dr Pepper fan, you'd know that there is no period/fullstop in the name. :P

      Hey hey the grandparent said an OLD soda bottle. Not a new one!

      --
      Pancakes. Oh I blew it.
    28. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 1

      Dr Pepper has been around since 1885. I would think that qualifies as "old". I think I still have a couple bottles from the 70s around in my garage somewhere...

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
    29. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by u8i9o0 · · Score: 1

      A troll mod? That was very unexpected.
      Maybe the mod could explain how this is trolling in an AC reply?

      --
      This is not my sig
    30. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by Jarjarthejedi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Exactly. Password security is not simply dependent on how many and what type of characters are used, but also on what the person using the password does with it. Even the most secure password could be easily determined if the user tried to use it to register on a non-legitimate site. It really depends on the user, as well as the password. A semi-weak password used by a security conscious person is far better at protecting something than an extremely strong password used by someone who doesn't know, or care, about security.

      --
      There are two kinds of fool One says 'This is old therefore good' Another says 'This is new therefore better'- Dean Ing
    31. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by AncientPC · · Score: 3, Interesting
    32. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by Darinbob · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The scary thing about the Mythbuster's attempt at this, is that it was so easy. The grabbed a fingerprint from a glass, scanned it into a computer, touched it up a bit graphically, then printed it out on paper. They used that paper to create a rubber film with ridges, a little moisture was applied (the door measures skin conductivity as an added "security" measure), and voila.

      Even scarier, in my view, was that they later skipped the last step altogether. They took the printed paper as is, moistened it, and opened the door. No need for rubber film (except if you want to look cool in the movies).

      And this was the high security door lock. The laptop fingerprint reader was even easier to bypass.

      This USB drive sound just like it was designed to tap into the market of unsophisticated people worried about security; dirt cheap to build and sold for high enough price that it feels professional.

    33. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by Hawkeye05 · · Score: 1

      They may not require a pulse, but they sure as hell require some kind of electrical signal in the operator.

      --
      Http://Stineomite.org (Yeah Thats Right I'm An Organization)
    34. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by Your+Pal+Dave · · Score: 4, Funny

      The problem is that you've got multiple passwords- one for work, one for Amazon.com, one for online banking, one for /., etc. etc. so it becomes virtually impossible to remember the damn things. Now what? People have to start writing them down, and posting them next to the machine. A huge part of the security of passwords comes from the fact that it's not physically written down; as soon as you have to record it instead of keeping it in your memory, your overall level of security is going down, even if the password is getting harder to crack. There's an easy solution to this, just store your passwords in one of those fingerprint-protected USB sticks that I've been reading so much about.

    35. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Passwords must contain at a minimum nine (9) characters, including at least two lower case letters, two uppercase letters, two numbers, and two special characters. - Password policy of Navy Knowledge Online

      Most people I know only go there maybe once a month. They reset their password every time since it's more of a hassle to write it down and find it a month later.

    36. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by jimicus · · Score: 1
      What algorithm would you suggest using to turn 100 different scans of the same thumb into the same key every time?

      My C is a little rusty, so I apologise for any syntax errors.

      char *fingerprint_hash(char *fingerprint_scan)
      {
      // Guarantee that any two scans of the same finger always result in the same hash.
      // The argument is a block of memory containing the scanned fingerprint image.
      // Returns a pointer to the hash, or NULL if the function fails.
        return (char *)calloc(sizeof(char), 1);
      }
    37. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by a+whoabot · · Score: 1

      I've received a number of troll mods lately for posts that were just, you know, like this post or any simple post I would make. There seems to be a group of mods who are going around just messing with stuff.

    38. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by Khyber · · Score: 1

      That's why it needs some form of moisture, to bridge the two electrical contacts to activate the scanner.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    39. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by Hawkeye05 · · Score: 1

      Henceforth proving that they are pretty secure.

      --
      Http://Stineomite.org (Yeah Thats Right I'm An Organization)
    40. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by kvezach · · Score: 1

      Even passwords fall short. Encryption, biometrics, etc... pfft... you're not safe unless annihilation is ensured.

      Hook it up to the South African flamethrower car alarm; that should do it! (If you can get them to start making those again.)

    41. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by jfim · · Score: 1

      A scan of a fingerprint is never exactly the same twice, thus it is useless as a cryptographic key... The most it can do, is provide a "close enough" match to a program which will then provide the actual key.

      Wrong. You can recognize certain features(loops, groove density, etc.) in the actual fingerprint and map those to an actual key, in the same way that you can scan a piece of paper on different scanners, run optical character recognition on it and spew the exact same text. There might not be enough entropy in a single finger to provide a good crypto key, though.

    42. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      For one of them, I think they just put their thumb on a photocopy machine and pressed the copy button. There wasn't a single piece of equipment in there that could be called, "secure." I think even the mythbusters were surprised at how easy it was. I imagine they were expecting to bust it, considering the size of the industry.

      The thing that people need to drill is that fingerprints are a username. You still need a password.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    43. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      Or you could store the fingerprint on the key, but actually have the key refuse to spill its guts without the finger. I think that's what this key was claiming to do.

      Encryption would be nice, too, but if it's going to be entirely based on biometrics, it's not going to be secure to hardware hacks. It should at least be possible to stop this fully automatic, software-based attack that it suffers from right now, though.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    44. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by ngc3242 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Disclaimer: I work for a major fingerprint sensor manufacturer.

      The problem with these particular devices isn't in the fingerprint sensors but with the way the security system was setup on the USB chip. The attacks shown used in the article don't have anything to do with the fingerprint sensors. Heise did a similar review of similarly flawed "fingerprint protected" hard drives recently. I think I saw that link from Bruce Schnier's site originally.

      This is not to say that fingerprint sensors are perfect. However, creating a spoof for a good fingerprint sensor requires more time and skill than creating a duplicate key for a traditional lock, for example. The sensor mentioned breathing on was probably a sensor that is a few generations old when the technology for just getting an image was not yet mature. They hadn't yet begun to deal with spoofs. You'll find the sensors included on modern laptops, for example, to be much better devices.

      Fingerprint sensors are tradeoffs between security and convinience. I keep a password vault protected by a fingerprint sensor. In it, I have a different randomly generated password (using as the maximum number of characters chosen from the widest range of characters allowed by the account) for each website, computer, program that I use. If I was a more capable human being, I would simply remember those passwords for the best security available (at least via passwords). If I wasn't using the password vault, I would certainly have fewer and less complex passwords, and I would the passwords less frequently.

      So, in this case. Mock the engineers that designed these storage devices. They failed to design their devices properly. What's sad is that these sensors look to be fairly modern, and someone could probably design a storage device with fairly good security around them.

    45. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by ngc3242 · · Score: 1

      Although you're right that using the fingerprint itself for encryption is not realisitic, the solution that a good fingerprint system will use to provide the same basic functionality is to match the fingerprint in hardware. If the fingerprint swipe matches, then the hardware will release the decryption key. This way you get to do the fuzzy match, but get a fixed result.

    46. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by sribe · · Score: 1

      I think the condensation trick doesn't work on capacitance sensors. Also, the one I've used is a heck of a lot faster (0.1 sec to acquire) than other techniques, which makes it much more convenient for the users.

    47. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by sribe · · Score: 1

      I never worked in the field...

      Yeah, that's kind of obvious. There are a lot of potential features on a fingerprint. Which ones show up as strongest varies quite a bit between scans.

    48. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      But finger prints aren't confidential in my city there is a nightclub that takes everyone's photograph and fingerprint as they enter. It wont be long till everyone can replicate your finger print the same way they can with signatures.

      ~Dan

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
    49. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its not just recent I keep meta modding and most (but not all) "Flamebait" or "Troll" I mod as unfair if more people do the metamodding we might get these idiots out of the system (or atleast cut them back).

    50. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      I take it your not a fan of retina scanners either?

      ~Dan

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
    51. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by JamesTRexx · · Score: 1

      Let me guess, on your luggage?

      --
      home
    52. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by mpe · · Score: 1

      The readers do not require a pulse. They do require some sort of moisture to activate the sensor, but a pulse is just bullshit. I'm responsible for replacing the damned things for a large laptop repair company and I also own a thinkpad with biometrics, so I can easily say that requiring a pulse is BS. Obtaining a pulse from the fingertip is near-impossible. You have to get to the second joint of the finger where the skin is thinner.

      You might be able to get a pulse if you use the thumb.

    53. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by Bri3D · · Score: 1

      No.
      I actually believe that having passwords written down on a sheet of paper (*without a list of what they are for or usernames*) kept on your person is thousands of times more secure than having a single, simple (or even mildly complex) password. Sure, you could lose the sheet, but without a list of sites and your username, 99.9% of people are just going to throw the sheet out when they find it and the other .1% of people dedicated enough probably have another way in.
      If you use the same simple (or even complex) password stored only in your mind, one attack against one site you signed up for that doesn't hash their passwords (they still exist, even really popular ones like Photobucket) means it's all over for that password and your online user accounts. Even if you try to verify the security procedures of sites you sign up for, md5ed passwords are fairly easily broken these days (projects like NSA@Home that can process billions of keys per second combined with kids with enormous known password lists, dictionaries, and rainbow tables can crack most 12char symbol passwords" approaches.

    54. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by njh · · Score: 1

      Sure, but that is vanishingly unlikely.

    55. Re:Fingerprint scanners suck. by awdau · · Score: 1

      Obtaining a pulse from the fingertip is near-impossible. You have to get to the second joint of the finger where the skin is thinner. What about a thumb? I was always told during my first aid courses not to use your thumb when taking a pulse, as you are really talking your own pulse due to the way that your vains run through your thumb.
  2. Damned With Faint Praise? by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "They do not provide any significant level of protection. We can only recommend that these products not be purchased."

    You seldom get such unflinching prose in a review.

    --
    "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
    Never been known to fail..."
    1. Re:Damned With Faint Praise? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yep, that's definitely unique with Heise. They are the unchallenged market leader for German computer magazines, both for professionals and customers. I've seen so many slashdot stories that came up about a week after heise.de published them.

      A few weeks ago, they said the same thing for "encrypted" USB hard drives (with state-of-the-art "XOR" encryption).

    2. Re:Damned With Faint Praise? by aproposofwhat · · Score: 0
      I think it's more a German cultural thing - I have noticed that Germans tend to be a lot more up-front with their language than either Brits or Yanks, and I personally find it refreshing.

      It's nice to know exactly where you stand when dealing with somebody, and not to have to peel off layer after layer of euphemism.

      --
      One swallow does not a fellatrix make
    3. Re:Damned With Faint Praise? by Jaysyn · · Score: 1

      After dating a German chick for about six months I can say from experience that this is not always true. :D

      --
      There is a war going on for your mind.
  3. LOLOL pwned! by TripMaster+Monkey · · Score: 3, Interesting

    And my boss has been pushing to get these deployed at our company, for the sake of security. I'm sending him this article right now.

    Thanks once again, Slashdot, for making it possible for me to project the impression that I'm doing my job. ^_^

    --
    ____

    ~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey

    1. Re:LOLOL pwned! by Briareos · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Thanks once again, Slashdot, for making it possible for me to project the impression that I'm doing my job. ^_^ Shouldn't you be thanking Heise instead?

      Just saying...

      np: Pole - Achterbahn (Shackleton Remix) (Steingarten Remixes)

      --

      "I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole

    2. Re:LOLOL pwned! by mgblst · · Score: 1

      I like to thank my monitor for what comes through the tubes. And every now and again I give my mouse a grateful squeeze.

    3. Re:LOLOL pwned! by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 1

      Thanks once again, Slashdot, for making it possible for me to project the impression that I'm doing my job. ^_^

      Then again he might ignore you and ask you what you are doing reading /. , at least if he is of the pointy haired variety ;)

      --
      Jumpstart the tartan drive.
  4. Mythbusters by TheMeuge · · Score: 3, Informative

    Didn't Mythbusters beat a bunch of fingerprint readers a couple of seasons ago? I seem to recall them using printed pictures of fingerprints with great success.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXyFmieZjiE

    1. Re:Mythbusters by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yep. The thing that I thought was most interesting was that the laptop scanner was harder to fool than the big sexy security door scanner.

      Not that they didn't take both of them down easily, using low tech methods.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    2. Re:Mythbusters by haruchai · · Score: 2, Informative

      Video has been yanked due to copyright infringement claim from Discovery Channel

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    3. Re:Mythbusters by Ihmhi · · Score: 2, Informative
      I was just about to post this... here is the video of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA4Xx5Noxyo>

      I am honestly not surprised. Biometrics has a long way to go. Now when are we going to see retinal scanner thumb drives? *eyeroll*

    4. Re:Mythbusters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    5. Re:Mythbusters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, they pulled it to focus their bandwith on streaming stolen pr0nclips with your grandmother in them.

  5. Misleading? by wild_quinine · · Score: 1
    OK, they're not 100% secure, which is probably what you want in enterprise. I think they're a fad, in a business environment.

    But it's quicker than inputting a password, and it keeps all but determined people out. Obviously, it doesn't keep those people out at all, but I dunno. A fingerprint reader, that has an every day use, and does actually save time. That's on the verge of being useful, as well as all kinds of cool. I mean *a fingerprint reader in your pocket*.

    And hell, if the fingerprint reader bit ever breaks, which it will, as sure as night follows day, well at least there's a failsafe way to get your data back now.

    1. Re:Misleading? by esocid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But it is misleading. It offers a technology that, to the viewer, is designed to protect the content on the memory. It does nothing of the sort. It gives the facade of a deadbolted door, with a window around back that is just left open. You say it's quicker than inputting a password? I doubt people are really in that much of a hurry that 2 seconds is such a waste of time. If anything it would serve as not needing to remember a password, or multiple passwords. But I'm still wary of anything that will require any sort of biometric information of mine for me to access.

      --
      Absolute power corrupts absolutely. indymedia
    2. Re:Misleading? by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 1

      Meh. It's security theater. Just buy a normal one and keep it in your wallet...That'll keep everyone out. What's the point of securing it only against people who don't really care if they get in it or not?

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    3. Re:Misleading? by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      A fingerprint Reader is probably as secure as a 3 or 4 diget password. if used in conjunction of an other 3 or 4 diget password they could be rather secure.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    4. Re:Misleading? by NothingMore · · Score: 1

      If it doesnt keep people out then what is the point in having the device??? They are not a fad in a business environment. If you are carrying around sensitive company documents you WANT to be as secure as possible since the company could be held liable if they are stolen. My real question is why do these devices not encrypt the files on the flash drive with a key based off of the fingerprint? That would actually give the device some sort of real security instead of the crap easy to bypass security these devices in question have.

  6. bad security by esocid · · Score: 2, Informative

    ...the controller on the stick does not decide whether to provide access to the partition; the software running on Windows does.
    Well there's your problem. Who in their right mind designed these? No encryption either. Or maybe it was their plan all along...No, I'd go with just stupidity.
    --
    Absolute power corrupts absolutely. indymedia
    1. Re:bad security by Idaho · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well there's your problem. Who in their right mind designed these? No encryption either. Or maybe it was their plan all along...No, I'd go with just stupidity.


      Stupidity of the gullible people buying this, that is.

      The guys who designed this (and, more importantly, marketed it) are certainly not stupid - they are essentially selling low-grade USB sticks at probably a 10x markup, at the cost of having a couple programmers write a Windows-only driver that makes it look like there is a security layer. I wouldn't call this stupid (although certainly ethically questionable, but that's a different matter)
      --
      Every expression is true, for a given value of 'true'
  7. Read only write access? by youthoftoday · · Score: 1

    From TFA: "The software on the PC uses another command to decide whether read-only write access is possibleæ

    --
    -1 not first post
    1. Re:Read only write access? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm guessing that the command will usually say it's impossible...

  8. More snake oil security by Idaho · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This is not the first USB-stick sold for a high price (typically 10 times the price of a normal USB stick of the same size) that doesn't actually add any security whatsoever.

    Here is an article by a dutch website (the article is in english though) that does a thorough job (technical details included) of debunking a similar product.

    Meanwhile, the scary thing is that government and military organizations are reported to have been actually using such products...

    --
    Every expression is true, for a given value of 'true'
    1. Re:More snake oil security by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      And they will continue using them. Simple reason: They don't give a jack about security, they only care about the outcry.

      Now, Joe Average doesn't know more about security than the feds do. Actually, I'm tempted to say, he knows less. So the next time some data will be "lost", some fed PR goon will step in front of the cam and announce that yes, we lost some data, but fortunately it was well encrypted, so your data has not been compromised. And Joe will be happy and satisfied, because it's encrypted.

      How well? Hell, does Joe care? He couldn't read it, it's encrypted, didn't you hear the press guy? Duh...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:More snake oil security by Binder · · Score: 1

      After seeing a long line of similar reviews of "secure" products. Shouldn't these companies be open to legal action? At least false advertising if not something else.

  9. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Informative

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  10. Hardware-based security is often vulnerable by Lucas123 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Corsair's Flash Padlock has the same issue. You can open the case through a single screw in the back of the drive and then access an electronic switch on the board, which can be easily tripped with a piece of wire, giving you access to the memory chip without having to punch in a security PIN. Hardware security methods just aren't as secure as software-based encryption.

    1. Re:Hardware-based security is often vulnerable by mpapet · · Score: 3, Informative

      Hardware security methods just aren't as secure as software-based encryption.

      You couldn't be more wrong about biometric authentication. You probably haven't seen the Sagem or Cogent sensors implemented well. It is the very rare organization who would actually spend the money to do the job right. A revision is necessary to make your statement accurate.

      Cheap and dirty hardware security methods just aren't as secure as software-based encryption.

      That's better.

      --
      http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
    2. Re:Hardware-based security is often vulnerable by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Exactly. I saw a "secure" version of that. that potted the whole device in epoxy. I returned the unit to the salesman with all the epoxy removed and a CD of the contents of the drive and said. "I would not trust that for any security."

      Granted It helps I made my way through college modding VideoCipher II boards back in the 80's so epoxy potting removal is incredibly easy to me.

      The ONLY way to make these toys secure is custom chipsets. power up chipset and then only decrypt the contents of the flash after the 12 digit key was entered on the little pin pad. But nobody is going to make that.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    3. Re:Hardware-based security is often vulnerable by smellsofbikes · · Score: 2, Informative

      >so epoxy potting removal is incredibly easy to me.

      Out of curiosity, how do you do it? I've used a combination of soaking in acetone and physically chipping/milling the stuff away, but I'd love to know better techniques.

      >The ONLY way to make these toys secure is custom chipsets. power up chipset and then only decrypt the contents of the flash after the 12 digit key was entered on the little pin pad. But nobody is going to make that.

      Read about the Maxim DS3600 family of chips some time. Keys stored encrypted on-chip, chip's a microSMD so you can't get to the pins, has massive on-chip detection facilities for eg. case tampering, power glitches, and temperature changes, all of which trigger it to wipe all its stored keys and optionally wipe other things to which it's attached, and uses weird repeated XOR writes of the encrypted keys so they don't build up oxide charges that'd allow you to read the memory once you've torn it apart.
      That chip's going to be hard to fool.

      --
      Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
    4. Re:Hardware-based security is often vulnerable by SCHecklerX · · Score: 1

      Not my realm of expertise, but the two previous posters may like this:

      http://www.blackhat.com/presentations/bh-dc-08/Tarnovsky/Presentation/bh-dc-08-tarnovsky.pdf

    5. Re:Hardware-based security is often vulnerable by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Exactly. I saw a "secure" version of that. that potted the whole device in epoxy. I returned the unit to the salesman with all the epoxy removed I enjoyed the recent article here about the UK smartcard readers being hacked with a paper clip. These devices had their boards potted in epoxy, they had sensors to detect if someone drilled through the case, and so forth. But for some reason they left a few holes in the potting to give easy access to some test pads and/or vias. What the...? If you're going to cover something in epoxy for security, you don't leave frigging holes in it! (probably their Q/A team said "we can't test it if you don't give us a back door")
    6. Re:Hardware-based security is often vulnerable by blueup · · Score: 1

      Why are custom chipsets required? Usually, "custom" cryptography is Broken cryptography.
      I'm not sure when you consider hardware to have a custom chipset, but an encrypted drive I admire is the Dekart Smart Container, which uses standard (separate) smart card chips for key storage, and the way I understand it, even if you use an advanced method to extract the data from the smart card, you still have to guess the password to decrypt the key, that you would then use to decrypt the data on the drive.

      Of course, if you know the weakness to 3des, I suppose you could just grab the raw data from the flash and decrypt it directly rather than playing with trying to extract the key, but as near as anyone knows, that's several years away even for government agencies.

      It would be nice if they used AES256, but I've got two or three other features that are on my wishlist for "the perfect device" that nobody seems to have implemented. Things like "ability to store data on SDHC card, rather than internal memory" and "uses finger-vein authentication to unlock certificates, without allowing biometric data to ever leave the device, or be stored in the clear on the device"

      --
      -- The above may have once been believed by me, but any truth or application you find is your own problem.
  11. Watch a Sci-fi movie! by hellfire · · Score: 1

    There's a reason why certain b-grade sci-fi slasher movies portray a top secret high security building protected by some kind of hand or fingerprint scanner. They need some security lock that is insanely easy for the hero or the villian to get through. Every time you see this, you know some loser extra is going to be dead and missing a hand by the end of the flick.

    --

    "All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"

    1. Re:Watch a Sci-fi movie! by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 1

      Exactly.

      Plus, a gun beats any security measure you can come up with. Just hold it to the head of a guy who knows the password.

      "Hey, see my gun? What's the password?"

      "It's 12345. Here, let me press the thumb scanner for you while I'm here anyway."

      --

      ---
      ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
    2. Re:Watch a Sci-fi movie! by aproposofwhat · · Score: 2, Informative
      That's what distress keycodes were invented for - some fingerprint implementations even allow you to choose a 'distress finger' for use in that situation - it will still open the door, but will also flag an alert to security staff.

      --
      One swallow does not a fellatrix make
    3. Re:Watch a Sci-fi movie! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Bulletproof revolving doors just big enough for one person that need a body scan to turn!

    4. Re:Watch a Sci-fi movie! by abqaussie · · Score: 1

      My "distress finger" always seems to provoke an angry response though...

    5. Re:Watch a Sci-fi movie! by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      Depends if stealth is required. By the time you've already shown your gun to someone, they know you were here, and possibly know what you look like.

      Under some situations, sure, it'd be problematic. But by the time you're doing that, you've already screwed up past your original silent-like-the-wind attack, where they'd never know you were there.

      Of course, this being a scifi flick, something will go wrong anyway...

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  12. There's a Crack in it by Wanado · · Score: 1

    If them new fangled USB sticks are getting cracked easily, then ya'll need some stronger plastics! They don't make 'em like they used to. Back in the day we had USB sticks made from solid steel.

    --
    Somehow along the way I made a bad choice in life and now must live with 0 Karma.
  13. Mythbusters by scubamage · · Score: 1

    There was an awesome episode of Mythbusters where they went through and cracked numerous types of fingerprint scanners.. amazingly the most sophisticated systems were extremely easy to beat (ie: using a photocopy of a brushed fingerprint). The cheaper ones worked a bit better requiring a ton of work to get by. I don't think this really is so much an issue about finger scanning as it is hardware design.

  14. Re:Physical layer by garett_spencley · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I agree 100%. However, the whole point of these devices is to protect your data in case it is lost / stolen.

    The only problem is that they do not work.

    There is a big market for physical security. It needs companies that will exploit it without snake oil. I like the idea of a multi-layer encryption / pass phrase / physical lock / self-destruct / whatever combination etc. idea on USB sticks and laptops etc. and I expect that products that cater to that need will grow. Unfortunately products that fail to live up to consumer demands will also continue to grow. It's a young industry.

    Biometrics is even younger, and right now I don't trust any kind of biometric security mechanism.

  15. Re:Physical layer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    While this is true there are some technologies that help protect the physical layer. I'm talking about smartcards and similar that have physical mechanisms designed to destroy the data if it is tampered with.

  16. Missing the Point by HollowSky · · Score: 1

    Fingerprint scanners (if used) should only be one part of the login/data access. It should always be followed up with a PIN/Password. Now you have two factor, what you have and what you know. So if what you have is compromised, you still cannot get in. AND you put tighter restrictions on what you know. Mistype password twice, account locked out..

    --
    "You're not balancing your internal energy with the environment." -Gary Busey
  17. duplicate comments up the wazoo?? by Missing_dc · · Score: 1

    The reason I come here is to read the posted comments, I often find them more informative, interesting and funny than the summary or TFA. On a quick scan of the posted comments, I noticed that many many posters said " ooooh Mythbusters did this ". I am amazed by the lack of origionality of these posts (past the first one) and the fact that in an effort to get their 2 cents out there, none of these posters bothered to even scan the reader responses, much less actually read them.

    --
    How amazed would you be to suddenly find that you just forgot what I wrote and you needed to reread my post.... again.
    1. Re:duplicate comments up the wazoo?? by SirTalon42 · · Score: 1

      Welcome to Slashdot. If you want original, informative, interesting, or insightful discussion, this place isn't for you.

    2. Re:duplicate comments up the wazoo?? by Mister+Whirly · · Score: 1

      Maybe Mythbusters should do an episode where they debunk the theory that not only do Slashdotters read TFA, they also read TFC before posting.

      --
      "But this one goes to 11!"
  18. Re:Physical layer by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 1

    Not entirely. If the entire (and I mean everything) was encrypted with a unique hash calculated by your print, I think it would work.

    --

    "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
  19. The Elephant in The Room by rueger · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Having spent too many hours dealing with increasingly bizarre authentication schemes at various web sites, and more hours reading about each new form of high tech security wizardry, I've come to conclude that an awful lot of companies are ignoring the obvious - that the only really secure way to protect data is to prevent physical access to it.

    As long as someone can get access to the container, they can find a way in.

    Obviously we're balancing convenience with security, but when some employee takes your whole customer database off-site on his laptop your problem is not encryption, it's keeping that data in a controlled environment.

    1. Re:The Elephant in The Room by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      One of my favorite Login security systems I have used was when I had to access a secure system back in the early 90's. one of the login validations was the date and time you last logged in.

      Username:
      Password:
      Last login date:
      Last Login time:
      Today's PIN:

      Worked good but kept a LOT of people out as they could never remember when they last logged in I was one of few that never called the help desk as I simply scheduled my login times to be the same each day.
      Today's pin was not so safe as it was written on the whiteboard in the security office.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    2. Re:The Elephant in The Room by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

      I simply scheduled my login times to be the same each day.

      So anyone that knew you could easily get that part of the login. Not only compromising the system but locking you out in the process!

      That's like setting your password to your wifes name or something. No security at all.

    3. Re:The Elephant in The Room by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Well they had to know me, my login, know my password, knew that I logged in at 12:17, and knew the security pin on the white board for that day, and try it when they knew I was not still logged in. as a second login attempt when a session is open will trigger security lockdown on the account.

      If you are that good, then yes you could get in.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    4. Re:The Elephant in The Room by mpe · · Score: 1

      Having spent too many hours dealing with increasingly bizarre authentication schemes at various web sites,

      With the "ask lots of silly questions" approach (especially if they are obscure facts related to you). It's probably better if make up answers, so long as you can remember what you made up. A computer is unlikely to complain if you say that you went to school at the "Unseen University", your uncle's middle name is "Hermione", your grandmother is called "Bill Adama", etc.

  20. Greater problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The greater problem with any security technology is how can you be sure the best cracking minds are working in the public domain? Without it, we are all virtually inescapable of the government and its pryings. I do not have the technical know-how or time to test just how uncrackable my encryption is. Most likely, neither do you.

    What we do have is common sense enough to know we need a cracking body that works for the public good. It's probably best they stay as anonymous as I. So "anonymous great crackers" out there. Please show us that you've cracked what you have be it a cipher, software bug, or physical device. Perhaps there should be a repository of encrypted files for you to work on. It's getting late...I must be going.

  21. Fingerprint scanners suck. by mpapet · · Score: 4, Informative

    It goes without saying that there are a large number of low-end sensors disguised as excellent front-ends to biometric authentication. You need to segregate two things.

    1. the sensor itself.

    2. the implementation of the sensor. (e.g. sensor as a front end)

    There are two legitimate sensor manufacturers in the U.S. and one very well-known French company all of whom do not sell to just anyone anywhere and at prices absolutely out of range for a TV show and the average company.

    Another thing to keep in mind is even IF there was budget for a good device, (oh to dream) there are implementation issues that can make the hardware worthless. As is often the case, meaningful implementations tend to complicate practically all business/operations matters which is why no company bothers.

    To generalize that all fingerprint scanners suck is just wrong.

    --
    http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
  22. Re:Physical layer by mattpalmer1086 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    No, sorry, that's just wrong. If the data is properly encrypted with a decent cipher using a key with sufficient entropy, you should assume it has not been compromised.

    If the encryption you are using is so poor that the loss of your USB stick means you consider the data to be compromised, why bother encrypting at all?!!!

  23. Oh no! Not fingerprint "security" by pesc · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When will fingerprint "security" die?

    Obligatory links:

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/05/16/gummi_bears_defeat_fingerprint_sensors/
    http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram-9808.html#biometrics

    It's important to understand that your fingerprints aren't secrets. You put them on thousands of objects every day. You can't create any security based on fingerprints unless you can assure that the reading device isn't tampered with. By placing a guard (a person) there or something.

    --

    )9TSS
    1. Re:Oh no! Not fingerprint "security" by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

      Interestingly that sequence in 2002 was exactly what Mythbusters repeated several years later.

      Sounds like they read that article and repeated the experiment to see what would happen - and there was me thinking they'd actually made some of it up...

  24. Re:Physical layer by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Your print never reads the same twice (fingerprints are a poor biometric for this reason - you can only really guess within a certain probability that it's the right one), so to do what you're suggesting you'd have to store the hash on the device.

    So your security is dependent on them hiding the hash to the rest of the data. Security is only as strong as its weakest point.

  25. Another misuse of biometrics by swordgeek · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Biometrics has its place. This isn't it.

    Most of the time, a username/password is a perfectly good access-control method. In some cases (either high-security environments or connections over hostile space), a second authentication method is advised. Now we have a two-factor authentication. Typical example is "log onto the firewall to allow you to log onto a machine inside the firewall." SecureID cards and the like also work as a good second-factor method.

    A biometric challenge is arguably an acceptable second-factor when added to a username/password system. It is NOT a substitute for such a system.

    However, biometrics are HARD to do correctly! Cheap scanners suck and are generally insecure by design. Expensive scanners suck, but are generally designed better. None are foolproof, yet.

    Also, biometric authentication carries a risk. If your username and password are stolen, then you can change your password and stop the damage. If your biometric ID (retinal scan, fingerprint, etc.) are successfully 'stolen,' then you have lost your authentication ability for all time! If your fingerprint is compromised, you can NEVER USE it as an authentication method again! There ain't no resetting fingerprints!

    So we have a large expense for an imperfect system with exactly one possible compromise per user per lifetime. This isn't a primary ID method. It's not a good second-factor ID method either. In EXTREME security environments, it might make sense as a third-factor authorization system, along with username/password and a (pseudo-) one-time pad (i.e. SecureID).

    If you don't NEED that type of security, then DON'T USE YOUR BIOMETRIC DATA! One compromise, and it's useless. Forever. Period.

    Oh yeah, but I forget the most important part: Fingerprint scanners are shiny and cool, just like in the movies. Bah.

    --

    "People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
    1. Re:Another misuse of biometrics by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      There ain't no resetting fingerprints!

      Couldn't help but think of Men in Black here.

      Bruce Schneier does make one good point, though: Biometrics can also work when you can verify the source. That is, fingerprint scanners work fine when you can verify that it is actually the person's finger -- as in, you have a guard standing there while people scan their fingers.

      However, when the purpose is to secure something which might be stolen (like a USB key or a laptop), they make no sense at all.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    2. Re:Another misuse of biometrics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bruce Schneier can reset your fingerprints.

    3. Re:Another misuse of biometrics by swordgeek · · Score: 1

      Yep, you're absolutely right. As I said, biometrics _do_ have their place.

      There's a good chance in your scenario that the guard recognises on sight the people who are supposed to be allowed in, which is one authentication factor. Once you're in the secured area, there is no WAY that you'll be able to work on computers without a username and password, so you have (surprise!) a third authentication.

      Biometrics works as one level in a multi-layered system, and it should be a fairly late layer to add to the system.

      --

      "People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
  26. Re:Physical layer by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 1

    Then the problem is a technical one, not a logical one. You propose that the idea will never be secure because we currently can't do it that way... that is must be done some other way. Just focus on what you need to actually be doing make it possible, not assume that it can't ever be done and you are stuck with nasty obscurities.

    --

    "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
  27. Encrypted memory stick experience by argent · · Score: 1

    In my previous system administration job one of the managers got some kind of deal on a big box of encrypted memory sticks - something like 100 sticks - that we put into our pool of thumb drives our engineers used for transferring configuration files and the like. We never used the encryption technology (among other things, embedded controllers don't have the ability to run Windows executables to read the password), instead we configured them as one big open partition. Unfortunately they were particularly sensitive to being damaged if they were pulled out without unmounting the partition - possibly due to the added complexity of the encryption technology. When that happened, unlike normal sticks, they were trashed. You couldn't reformat them, and contacting the company to find out how to securely erase them led me through a maze of red tape, ending up with a demand that we send them a registered letter on company letterhead from the CEO to authorize us to receive a copy of the secure formatting program. This was duly sent but turned out to be a dead end: they never contacted us or responded to further contacts.

    It's possible that they had no such program, or that the program was something like the one described here and they didn't want to let the cat out of the bag. We quit using these sticks, they were just too fragile to be worth the hassles.

  28. The fundamental problem... by tgd · · Score: 1

    Fingerprints are a source of identification not authorization. They're not private. No matter how good your sensor is, there's nothing secret about your authorization. Its a "what you have", which conveniently you always have.

    If you are going to provide authorization, you need to use a "what you know" (password) to even have a minimum of security.

    Doing anything else is an explicit decision to disable security. Hopefully an acceptable reduction in exchange for a necessary benefit. Most of the time its not, however... its just people who don't know what they're doing.

    1. Re:The fundamental problem... by tgd · · Score: 1

      Crap "secret about your fingerprint".

      Preview first... preview first...

  29. If at first you don't get posted... by damn_registrars · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Someone already submitted this article under a different headline. It was rejected. Apparently we care about it now, though I'm not sure why. Even linked to the same article, and sent in by the same person, with a different description.

    I guess now I know what to do if the stories I submit don't make it...

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    1. Re:If at first you don't get posted... by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Depends how much interesting stuff happens. On some days, groundbreaking news don't make it to the frontpage because there've been even more groundbreaking events pushing them back. On other days, a story about some dork building something out of LEGO makes it because there's simply nothing going on.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  30. Fingerprint Systems by kellyb9 · · Score: 1

    Fingerprint systems are terrible if you really think about it. It would basically be like a password that you had, you couldn't change it, and you left it in paper version everywhere you go. There needs to be another layer of security on top of most biometric systems.

  31. Re:Physical layer by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    It's about as much snakeoil as the whole deal with "protection" against intrusion when you have the "protected" device physically in your hands. It's right behind unbreakable DRM.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  32. You haven't seen some password policies by Moraelin · · Score: 3, Funny

    Eh, the poor guy probably just had to put up with some password policy that says he has to have at least one non-letter character in the password.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  33. What's wrong with low level protection? by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Low-level protection is fine, so long as you know it is low level. Low level protection is dine for stopping the casual snooper.

    Around the world there are millions of low-level padlocks etc that will stop most petty thieves but will not deter serious thieves. Most houses have pickable locks that anyone could learn to pick, but yet most locks still serve their purpose.

    The only real issue is if peeople buy these devices and think they're getting Fort Knox level security and essentially use a two-dollar padlock to secure a bank.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
  34. Well that was stupid by Bobb+Sledd · · Score: 1

    Well that's stupid. Apart from the fact that using biometric data that is subject to loss, and cannot ever be changed in case of compromise...

    Assuming you *had* to do it with fingerprints... why wouldn't you just come up with some algorithm that takes certain points and spaces and distances of your fingerprint, creates an encryption/decryption password based on the results, and then encrypts/decrypts your data with something like what TrueCrypt does, but using this password instead.

    This way your data is actually encrypted, and not just gated.

    --
    "They said I probly shouldn't fly with just one eye," "I am Bender. Please insert girder."
  35. Truecrypt by Frederic54 · · Score: 1

    This is why I have a $10 USB memory stick and I use a Truecrypt volume on it with a HMAC-Whirlpool whatever encryption it is.
    When I plug it into another computer, the autostart popup comes on the screen to mount the volume, easy enough, and as almost everyone run their windows as administrator, no problem to run Truecrypt.
    It works also on Linux and OSX.

    And if someone steal it, good luck finding the key!

    --
    "Science will win because it works." - Stephen Hawking
    1. Re:Truecrypt by SirTalon42 · · Score: 1

      [quote]When I plug it into another computer, the autostart popup comes on the screen to mount the volume, easy enough, and as almost everyone run their windows as administrator, no problem to run Truecrypt.
        It works also on Linux and OSX.

        And if someone steal it, good luck finding the key![/quote]

      If someone knows a machine you'll be sticking it into at some time, they could simply get there before you and put a few simple tools on it to monitor what happens, and either flat out copy the encrypted partition's contents the moment you mount it (getting the unencrypted version of everything), or copy the encrypted partition + passphrase + optional keyfile. Hell, they could do both.

      Using a hidden partition wouldn't help as well. The moment it's mounted the contents can be copied just the same. You really don't have any security when you access encrypted data on a machine that isn't controlled exclusively by people you trust.

  36. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  37. It's your username by Rick+Genter · · Score: 1

    A fingerprint identifies you. It doesn't authenticate you. It's effectively your username. To use it as your password is akin to using your username as your password.

    --
    Don't underestimate the power of The Source
  38. MOD PARENT UP by l2718 · · Score: 1

    My reply was conjecturing that such things should exist ... but you know they do ...

  39. Big Picture: Still a bad idea by JSBiff · · Score: 1

    Let's say, hypothetically, you could create a perfect fingerprint matching system you could use to provide a strong encryption key for encrypting/decrypting your data. Let's say the technology couldn't be fooled - it really required *your* finger, and not a rubber mold, xerox, etc. Let's even say that it uses some sort of 'salting' technique so that someone can't just figure out your key by lifting your fingerprints - that is, knowing *just* the fingerprint would not by itself be sufficient to generate the key, but is a necessary part of the algorithm. It's still a bad idea.

    I for one, would rather not give anyone, anywhere, a motive for CUTTING OFF MY FINGERS. . . or simply forcing my hand into the keypad with the finger(s) still attached (maybe drug me and push my hand into the pad while I'm unconscious).

    Granted, even with password security, it's true that someone could use the 'rubber hose and a pair of pliers' technique for getting my password. Or a key logger. Or a camera in a strategic position while I'm typing my password. But given the two alternatives, where you can't show a distinct advantage for fingerprints, I'd really rather stay with the simpler technology.

  40. Re:Physical layer by Culture20 · · Score: 1
    His point was if the hash is stored on the device... the Hash is stored On the Device; bad security model.

    Fingerprint readers are kind of like a new, lazy, security guard; he kind of knows what people look like, and he'll let anyone in the building that looks close enough. Unfortunately, he _has_ to let people in who look close enough, or he'll get fired (the fingerprint reader won't be purchased).

    Fingerprint readers are even worse than the human, because you can fake them so easily. So, you've got what amounts to a 2-digit combination lock on a key-locker that opens up the rest of the building.

  41. Everyday Joe.... by Kazrath · · Score: 1

    Guys, We know that with the right tools, knowledge and ability pretty much anything can be cracked. These devices may not be able to keep security professionals or their seedier equivalent from accessing the information but it will keep the everyday Joe office worker from accessing your information. The idea is sound and it is secure against probably 99% of the worlds population. The technical elite would be able to eventually crack it regardless of which security measures were applied.

    I for one think this would be a good device to keep people like your wife/husband/girlfriend/roomate from accessing information you may not want them to see.

  42. Security Failures in Secure Devices by SCHecklerX · · Score: 1

    Christopher Tarnovsky gave an interesting presentation on this related subject at BHDC 2008:

    http://www.blackhat.com/presentations/bh-dc-08/Tarnovsky/Presentation/bh-dc-08-tarnovsky.pdf

  43. unbreakable security by rice_burners_suck · · Score: 1

    There is a common misconception that every security system, whether physical or digital, has a weakness somewhere. But I have a way to build a system with UNBREAKABLE security.

    First, you input your fingerprint, which is converted by some algorithm into an 8-bit unsigned char. Then, every byte of your data is XORed with this char. The result is written to the USB stick. Oh yeah, and to ensure that the data, once decrypted, is identical to the original data, an SHA-1 signature of the ORIGINAL data is recorded to the USB stick, too.

    The ingenious part of this design is that any system can read the data off the USB stick. But you read it, you need to input your fingerprint to decrypt the information. A small sticker on each USB stick will say, "How to retrieve data in case of lost finger: Try all 256 possible keys and check the result against the SHA-1 signature."

    This is completely, utterly, 100% UNBREAKABLE security, worthy of even the most demanding government organizations.

  44. Re:Physical layer by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

    One problem is that fingerprints change. You cut your finger or play a guitar or just tend to have dry skin*... and your fingerprint changes. One issue with biometrics is that they are not static. You fingerprints, your irises, your retinas - all of them change slightly over time. It's slight enough for "there's a high probability that this reading matches person X", but too much for "we'll take this reading as a digital key". You can try to downsample the readings to compensate for long-term change and short-term fluctuations, but that reduces the quality of the key and might allow in people with similar features.

    Biometrics are hard for a number of reasons. One of them is that humans tend to look different over time.


    * I don't know about you, but I constantly have small blemishes on my fingers. If I was relying on hi-res fingerprint scans for anything I'd have to reset them to match the state of my fingers every few weeks.

    --
    USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
  45. 'distress finger' by More_Cowbell · · Score: 1

    I know there's a good joke in there somewhere.

    --
    Experience teaches only the teachable. -AH
  46. You're not getting th idea behind the hack. by Ernesto+Alvarez · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I've been seeing lots of posts critisizing fingerprint authentication and how it is easily cracked, etc. You should (re)read TFA, because you're not getting the idea.

    Those sticks are flawed not because the fingerprint sensor sucks, but because the authentication is made on the computer.

    If I got it right, those sticks should work like this

    1. You plug the stick
    2. You put your finger on the sensor
    3. The sensor reads your print and sends its data to the computer
    4. The windows driver takes the data and decides whether it should give you access or not
    5. If the print matches, IT SENDS WHAT IN ESSENCE IS AN UNLOCK COMMAND TO THE STICK
    6. You access the private partition


    The fact that the stick uses biometrics is irrelevant. With a design like that, it would have been vulnerable even if it had PIN, RSA keys or black magic. You can just bypass the security mechanism by sending the unlock command.

    Essentialy, it has the same flaw as the secustik we saw last year.
  47. True of biometrics, maybe. by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

    It may still be possible to create something relatively tamper-proof, by destroying the physical layer if an attempt is made.

    However, it is possible to do strong encryption such that you should assume it will be secure, and there is a number of years for which you can assume that to be true. Most schemes we employ today are assumed secure for at least ten years. Without some trick (or fully-functional quantum computers), there are some schemes which will outlast the heat-death of the Universe, but 10 years is usually enough for you to change all the keys, and for any business information to be irrelevant.

    Here's what I currently do -- not out of need, but because I want to:

    I have a USB stick which has everything needed to boot. That's a bootloader, a Linux kernel, an initrd with the encryption keys, and occasionally some other things which need to be kept similarly secure. I boot off of this device -- no password needed at any stage, mostly, as I am most often resuming from hibernation -- and the swap partition is encrypted, too, so hibernation is secure. And this USB stick is almost never plugged in or mounted anywhere, other than for boot.

    If I lose the laptop, I can destroy the USB stick and be reasonably confident that no information has been stolen from the laptop. If I lose the USB stick, I can grab one of my backups of it (not saying where those are), and use this information to change the key associated with the disk -- as this is actually a key used to decode one of the encrypted copies of the real key, stored on the disk -- in other words, I don't even have to reformat, and I can be reasonably confident that the machine is secure again.

    Of course, if someone mugs me and takes both, then I have to assume the worst. It doesn't phone home yet, or have a dead man's switch of any kind. But the above scheme was really a hobby project, that took maybe twenty minutes to learn and implement (not including the time it took to format). However, that seems the least likely of any of the above scenarios.

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  48. Maybe you could explain how it works.... by Joce640k · · Score: 1

    Can you explain the basic principles behind how a "secure" system works?

    As pointed out in the rest of this thread, "fingerprint" != "encryption key" so how do you encrypt the data?

    --
    No sig today...
  49. And in response... by PieceofLavalamp · · Score: 1

    And in response god created the iron key...
    https://www.ironkey.com/

    1. Re:And in response... by myz24 · · Score: 1

      I love my IronKey. The only improvement it needs is a better cap design or slide out casing.

  50. Re:Physical layer by mpe · · Score: 1

    No, sorry, that's just wrong. If the data is properly encrypted with a decent cipher using a key with sufficient entropy, you should assume it has not been compromised.

    Also that the key must not be with the encrypted data.

  51. Do you work at Intel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because that password scheme is what we have to live with.
    Oh, and you have to change your password every ~90 days and it remembers your last 8 passwords.

    I now just use Gene$Hunt1 and increment "1" everytime they make me change my password.

    BTW, before the screams occur, that isn't my actual password but a good enough approximation and I just finished watching Ashes to Ashes (far inferior to Life on Mars).

  52. Re:Physical layer by mattpalmer1086 · · Score: 1

    OK, I take your point about losing control, but I still somewhat disagree with your conclusions. The Dolev-Yao threat model, used by all serious cryptographers, assumes that the attacker has all information at their disposal - your encrypted message, the algorithm used to encrypt, even potentially information about the content of the message (but not the exact message itself). Modern cryptography is designed on the assumption that the *only* thing protecting your data is the secrecy of the key itself.

    You are really talking about risk management of information. It's not quite information at rest (e.g. on a physically secured server), and neither is it information in transit (e.g. sent over an secured or encrypted link, that is only interceptable at the moment of transmission). What we have here is information that must be portable (hence why it's on the USB stick), but still requires protection, both now and, crucially, into the future in the case of loss. So the encryption is insurance against the loss of that stick.

    As you rightfully say, it doesn't necessarily protect you for all time against all attackers, but it can reduce your risk to an extremely low level. You must consider the cover time (the time for which the information must remain secret) when picking your key size, etc. For example, the DES encryption has never been cracked (in the sense of a practical mathematical break), but it is now crackable because its key length is only around 64 bits. When DES was first designed, they predicted the cover time it would give (following Moore's law), fairly accurately. Picking a key length that gives you sufficient insurance into the future must be a part of your selection process - especially for data encrypted on portable devices.

    Of course it is always possible that a surprise mathematical attack could render your encryption useless, or a stunning technological advance might make brute force attacks feasible. These are not very likely, but are possible. But the art of using encryption like this is to mitigate the risk of moving the sensitive information, which presumably must be moved. Without encryption, you couldn't move that sensitive information - or at least, not without a lot of additional and possibly prohibitive expense (armed guards, secure physical delivery services).

    Finally, while I agree that the loss of encrypted sensitive information is a risk, and must be acknowledged as such, it is not the *same* risk as actual compromise of the information itself. If you treat it this way, you cannot make realistic plans for each eventuality - you will either over-react in one circumstance, or under-react in another. If the information is *so* important that losing the encrypted data must be treated in the same way as losing the information itself, then you shouldn't be moving it around like that in the first place!