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Swarm Robot Immune System?

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on from the better-stronger-faster dept.

schliz writes "Researchers are investigating large swarms of up to 10,000 miniature robots which can work together to form a single, artificial life form. A resulting artificial immune system is expected to be able to detect faults and make recommendations to a high-level control system about corrective action — much like how a person's natural immune system is able to cope with unfamiliar pathogens."

47 comments

  1. Don't they know they are unstoppable? by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 5, Funny

    With 10,000 drones they could conquer the world.
    We have seen it in many things, and it won't end well.

    Stargate Replicators,
    Star Trek Borg,
    hell even Lexx Mantrid arms!

    --
    liqbase :: faster than paper
    1. Re:Don't they know they are unstoppable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Unstoppable? Hardly. There is one way to stop a robot immune system:

      Robot AIDS

    2. Re:Don't they know they are unstoppable? by CRCulver · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm surprised you didn't mention Crichton's Prey , that's a prominent recent example of evil nanobots.

    3. Re:Don't they know they are unstoppable? by Archtech · · Score: 1

      For the canonical worst-case scenario, try Michael Crichton's 2002 novel "Prey". Good time to buy - they're being remaindered. It's actually a pretty good book if you like that sort of thing.

      http://tinyurl.com/2baemk

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    4. Re:Don't they know they are unstoppable? by aurispector · · Score: 1

      Gray goo FTW!!! At least they aren't screwing around with the genome. Those guys really scare me: there was a recent news item about how all the supposed "junk dna" in the human genome in fact codes for all kinds of stuff.

      I have no faith that the bright boys really know what they are doing.

      --
      I have mod points. The reign of terror begins now.
    5. Re:Don't they know they are unstoppable? by SunTzuWarmaster · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Probably not. Look up Genetic Algorithms. Although they are an exercise in computer science, the boost in performance during a crossover operation is high enough to suspect that 'junk DNA' is enough to keep many individuals on the path to breeding.

      That being said, you cannot rule out that it used to code for stuff, and that it is one mutation away from coming back into play (if you move around the 'start' and 'stop' within a genome, you can reintroduce what was previously 'junk' DNA). However, it is also likely that that DNA is no longer intact because it has not been evaluated for fitness recently (not being part of an individual means that individuals with 'bad' genes in this area can still effectively reproduce).

    6. Re:Don't they know they are unstoppable? by txoof · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What facility does this unstoppable robot force have for creating more of its self? Did you read the article? Even a quick skimming mentions using swarm technology to solve problems, not to replicate. Just because there are thousands of problem solving robots doesn't imply that they will suddenly decide to begin to evolve and replicate.

      Solving problems en mass is one thing, spontaneously developing the ability to replicate is completely another. Even if a snake robot swarm, unleashed into a collapsed building to find and help survivors, spontaneously decided to start replicating, where would it find the materials to do so? I'm pretty sure most collapsed buildings are short on snake robot parts.

      This idea is related to Rodney Brooks "Fast Cheap and Out of Control" idea. Instead of having one super expensive robot that symbolically processes the world around it and then interacts with it, you have thousands of fast, cheap and barely controlled robots that do the same task as one big by working together and each supplying one small piece of functionality such as sensing, moving or manipulating. Nothing about this implies that they will suddenly begin to replicate.

      If, at some point in the future, we develop the ability build robots that can use raw materials to create more of themselves, unleashing thousands of them with no direct control mechanism would probably be a bad idea. Until then, there's not much to worry about unless you work for FOX news and need a SCARY and SENSATIONAL headline for the hour.

      --
      This one's tricky. You have to use imaginary numbers, like eleventeen... --Hobbes
    7. Re:Don't they know they are unstoppable? by foobsr · · Score: 1

      Crichton's Prey

      The Invincible
      (link)
      (the Seventies are calling)

      Besides, I am quite optimistic that mankind will present itself as an evolutionary failure in the long run (or as a component of a transient process, since failures are impossible if one shares the view that each and every process contributes to a current state of affairs).

      CC.

      --
      TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
    8. Re:Don't they know they are unstoppable? by zeromorph · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Although the parent post is quite cheesy the analogy is has a true core:

      If you want to stop something flexible and adaptive the means has to be adaptive to.

      That holds true for HIV and anti-AIDS medicine and it would hold true for a swarm of robots. You would either have to get them by one hit or take a swarm-like or a viral approach. Quite interesting task actually.

      --
      "Hannibal's plans never work right. They just work." Amy/A-Team
    9. Re:Don't they know they are unstoppable? by matt4077 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I like Crichton, but Prey is probably the worst of all his books, It's junk science in the beginning and lame action afterwards. I know that describes pretty much all Crichton books, but others like Jurassic Park simply were better in both regards.

      --
      Fleur de Sel
    10. Re:Don't they know they are unstoppable? by Lorien_the_first_one · · Score: 1

      Nice book by Michael Chrichton.

      I read that book in 3 days and just couldn't put it down until the end.

      --
      The diversity and expression of human opinion is essential to human survival.
    11. Re:Don't they know they are unstoppable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HIV is basically a spoofing attack so a RIV would do something similar. This would be pretty hard to defend against since any robo-immunity would require some helper bots to receive constant robotic antigen presentation to be able to meet changing conditions and better direct the other robots. Perhaps a spoofing attack on something like the class II robohistocompatibility interface would be effective. Then the RIV could access that robot's CVS and replicate as needed. You wouldn't be able to create a non-spoofable interface with a distributed robotic immune system when you don't have some central database of public cyphers (because robots are constantly replicating).

    12. Re:Don't they know they are unstoppable? by NetSettler · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If, at some point in the future, we develop the ability build robots that can use raw materials to create more of themselves, unleashing thousands of them with no direct control mechanism would probably be a bad idea. Until then, there's not much to worry about unless you work for FOX news and need a SCARY and SENSATIONAL headline for the hour.

      We don't have reason to worry about robots taking over the world until then, yes. But the intermediate ground is that research in this area is only rarely going to be used for things like earthquake recovery. It's going to be very expensive to make so many machines at all, at first, and so will not be vacuuming the floor in your house. The first applications will be funded by the military, and all in the name of protecting us.

      The problem is that the military (of whatever country) is always indulging the illusion that they have to have it because the other guy will eventually have it, while all the while leaking, in one way or another, the information. So they can end up starting the problem they fear. Even just putting fear into the enemy (or potential enemy) that "we" will have it and "they" won't means "we" have to worry about defense against it since "we" have signaled to "them" an interest in that area and now must protect the intellectual space. (I've tried to word the "we"/"them" neutrally so it reads as well for the US as abroad, in part because this research is being done abroad. The issues are no less relevant in any country.)

      The practical truth is that the world is not suffering from the absence of swarms (dare I say "gangs") of swarmbots. This is push technology looking for a market, and with the military and malware markets being the two obvious prime candidates, which is not comforting, at least to me.

      I'm not intending to advocate outright alarm. I'm reacting to a statement that appears to say that it's ok to ignore this as a problem for now. I don't think the choice is as binary as all that. Technology does not, itself, cause social problems. But that is not license to assume that no problems will result that are enabled by technology. If there can be social impact of technology, what causes the problem is the failure to track and respond to the social implications, and the assumption that society will (or even can) just automatically "keep up" and "be ready". I'm not big on those stupid headlines either, but then, I wish the public could hear a calm headline and still be interested enough to discuss something. The public doesn't need to panic, and yet it probably does need to read the story and listen and do a little discussing.

      --

      Kent M Pitman
      Philosopher, Technologist, Writer

    13. Re:Don't they know they are unstoppable? by txoof · · Score: 1

      But that is not license to assume that no problems will result that are enabled by technology. If there can be social impact of technology, what causes the problem is the failure to track and respond to the social implications, and the assumption that society will (or even can) just automatically "keep up" and "be ready". I'm not big on those stupid headlines either, but then, I wish the public could hear a calm headline and still be interested enough to discuss something.
      Indeed, a more open and involved discourse on the social implications of new technology is what is needed in our world. I see all sorts of amazing technology being developed for or by the military of the world; it excites me and scares my pants off as well. I love the idea of using unmanned vehicles for clearing mines, providing reconnaissance and disarming bombs. This is a brilliant application of technology that takes humans out of the way of harm.

      What I really don't like, as cheesy as it sounds, is the violation of Asimov's Laws. Robots should never, never, never be given the ability to pull a trigger on their own. I hardly hear anyone outside of the geek community and the far left discussing this possibility at all. The average citizen hears about a new whiz-bang robot soldier and thinks, "cool!" Instead of, "geez, I wonder if we should even be making these things..."

      How do we, as a society, make sure that we have conversations about new technology? How do we ensure that some thought other than mutually assured destruction goes into the production and application of new ideas? I for one don't want to leave that up to the military. They have a job to do and they do it fairly well, but I don't always agree with their priorities.
      --
      This one's tricky. You have to use imaginary numbers, like eleventeen... --Hobbes
    14. Re:Don't they know they are unstoppable? by virgil_disgr4ce · · Score: 1

      I agree-- when I started reading it, I was expecting the worst. Through the first half, though, I thought, "Hey, maybe I was wrong after all!" It seemed like it might be interesting and exciting in the way the old ones were. But then somewhere along the line it just took a dive, both into implausibility and downright silliness. By the end it was clear he had just given up the effort. Oh well.

      --
      Limina.Log
    15. Re:Don't they know they are unstoppable? by Eternauta3k · · Score: 1

      Depends on your definition of robot. We've had for more than 30 years anti aerial artillery capable of shooting down enemy planes automatically.

      --
      Yeah. Would you choose a neurosurgeon who pokes around people's brains in his spare time? I wouldn't.
    16. Re:Don't they know they are unstoppable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If, at some point in the future, we develop the ability build robots that can use raw materials to create more of themselves, unleashing thousands of them with no direct control mechanism would probably be a bad idea. Considering that most of the concepts found in artificial immune systems are repackaged, horribly implemented plagiarizations of previously developed ideas (hyperspherical classifiers, learning vector quantization, etc.), we won't have to worry about any AIS-based robots taking over.
    17. Re:Don't they know they are unstoppable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I like Crichton, but Prey is probably the worst of all his books,

      You must not have read Sphere.

    18. Re:Don't they know they are unstoppable? by theTerribleRobbo · · Score: 1

      Particularly British ones. Sorry guys.

  2. sigh... oblig... by Missing_dc · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    I, for one, welcome our fault-detecting miniature robot swarm under(over)lords!

    --
    How amazed would you be to suddenly find that you just forgot what I wrote and you needed to reread my post.... again.
  3. Why an immune system? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Haven't the scientists thought about making it into a weapon? I'd bet they'd get ten or a hundred times the funding for a super-weapon than something that does something trivial like curing cancer or AIDS.

  4. Skynet...obligatory by jo7hs2 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Does this mean that WE are Skynet?

    1. Re:Skynet...obligatory by dvice_null · · Score: 4, Funny

      Forget skynet. These things are replicators. Not even the Asgards can beat them without the help of 4 humans.

    2. Re:Skynet...obligatory by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 1

      The Asgards laster beams just let the replicators soak up more power.

      We need a lot of bullets and a high speed gun to beat them.

    3. Re:Skynet...obligatory by Eli+Gottlieb · · Score: 1

      We need guns. Lots of guns. Woah.

  5. I bet they run... by YutakaFrog · · Score: 2, Informative

    JavaScript

  6. And this is different by name*censored* · · Score: 2, Insightful

    From the internet's massively redundant routing system how? After all, this idea isn't talking about self-REPAIRING robots, simply robots that route around problem areas. Seems like a hardware mini-internet to me. Cool idea, but hardly original.

    --
    Commodore64_love: I don't comprehend people who're so frightened of death that they'll bankrupt themselves to stay alive
  7. Battle Bots.... by txoof · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Something like this would be awesome on battle bots. Swarm robots, or robots that work cooperatively to complete a challenge against another single or swarm of robots would be really fascinating to watch. It would be truly interesting to watch the evolution of different techniques and methods every week.

    --
    This one's tricky. You have to use imaginary numbers, like eleventeen... --Hobbes
    1. Re:Battle Bots.... by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      Something like this would be awesome on battle bots. Swarm robots, or robots that work cooperatively to complete a challenge against another single or swarm of robots would be really fascinating to watch. It would be truly interesting to watch the evolution of different techniques and methods every week.

      You don't need the actual robots to do that. Just the software.

      --
      http://michaelsmith.id.au
    2. Re:Battle Bots.... by txoof · · Score: 1

      You don't need the actual robots to do that. Just the software.
      Sure, but watching code compile isn't nearly as much fun as watching a swarm of robots dismember each other. Never forget about the production value! Code compiling == LOW production value; Swarm of angry robots with saws, drills, flails and FRICKIN' LASERS that dismember each other == High production value.
      --
      This one's tricky. You have to use imaginary numbers, like eleventeen... --Hobbes
    3. Re:Battle Bots.... by Falstius · · Score: 1

      Simulating the robots is easy, you know all their rules. But no simulation is going to account for every aspect of the environment.

  8. Norton Antivirus Robot by Southgrove · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...detects his own legs as a viral infection, chops them off, crawls around muttering something about humans and destruction and dies.

  9. Storm worm? by memorycardfull · · Score: 1

    This idea could be applied to botnets just as easily as physical bots. The storm worm botnet has similar collective immune system functions for defense.

  10. Storm by Hillgiant · · Score: 1

    For a moment, I thought they were talking about some sort of anti-anti-malware system found in botnets.

    --
    -
  11. I *genuinely* misread that... by skimitar · · Score: 1

    ...as researchers are ingesting.... Which I guess, one day, won't be too far off the mark.

  12. This is how it starts? by ptbob · · Score: 1

    Is this the way The Borg started? A few thousand innocent robots swarming together into mass hysteria. We're in trouble.

  13. 10 000 of them?! by Tabernaque86 · · Score: 1

    I wonder which one gets to form the head?

  14. Immune System by ultranova · · Score: 1

    When encountering an unfamiliar pathogen, human immune system will most likely fail to do anything useful (but sometimes manages to do something harmful) while the owner will keel over and die. This has been shown time and again during the history of the world. So if you want to make something adaptible, that's the last thing you want to take the model from.

    Of course human populations adapt, so I guess this could work, if the robot swarm was able to reproduce and mutate - but that has some rather obvious dangers too.

    --

    Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    1. Re:Immune System by TheGreatHegemon · · Score: 1

      Come again? Have you ever even had a basic biology class? The human immune system is astoundingly adaptable. The reason why you hear about the immune system failing (AIDs, etc.) is because all the OTHER hundreds upon hundreds (if not thousands) of possible invaders are crushed - either before we know or after a brief cold. AIDs, Prion Diseases, etc. are the very small minority.

    2. Re:Immune System by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Come again? Have you ever even had a basic biology class?

      Certainly. I have also read history, and know what happened when Europeans came to America, for example: the same thing which happened every time two groups, one of which had infectious diseases the other didn't, met.

      The human immune system is astoundingly adaptable. The reason why you hear about the immune system failing (AIDs, etc.) is because all the OTHER hundreds upon hundreds (if not thousands) of possible invaders are crushed - either before we know or after a brief cold. AIDs, Prion Diseases, etc. are the very small minority.

      No. The thousands upon thousands of invaders who get crushed are familiar to the immune system. Every time there's a new one, or even sufficiently mutated old one, we have a major epidemic with a huge death toll.

      The only pathogens the human immune system can deal with efficiently are those it has been primed through natural selection to specifically fight. And even then it takes personal experience with the disease - having it once, typically - until the system reaches full efficiency. If anything new comes around, you'll be bedridden for weeks, and that's assuming you won't die outright.

      And of course all of this is completely ignoring the autoimmune diseases, such as allergies and some forms of diabetes, where it is the immune system itself which causes the damage.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.