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In Soviet US, Comcast Watches YOU

cayenne8 sends us to Newteevee.com for a blog posting reporting from the Digital Living Room conference earlier this week. Gerard Kunkel, Comcast's senior VP of user experience, stated that the cable company is experimenting with different camera technologies built into its devices so it can know who's in your living room. Cameras in the set-top boxes, while apparently not using facial recognition software, can still somehow figure out who is in the room, and customize user preferences for cable (favorite channels, etc.). While this sounds 'handy,' it also sounds a bit like the TV sets in 1984. I am sure, of course, that Comcast wouldn't tap into this for any reason, nor let the authorities tap into this to watch inside your home in real time without a warrant or anything."

38 of 404 comments (clear)

  1. Ah well ... by ScrewMaster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is one privacy issue that a little electrical tape can cure easily.

    --
    The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    1. Re:Ah well ... by AragornSonOfArathorn · · Score: 5, Funny

      not really. If you cover up the lens, the cable box goes "Your papers, please." Then you'll have to type your SSN or passport number in with the remote before you can watch TV.

      --
      sudo eat my shorts
    2. Re:Ah well ... by ScrewMaster · · Score: 5, Funny

      No, they can't make that illegal because they've already told to lay in plenty of duct tape in case of a chemical attack.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    3. Re:Ah well ... by Naughty+Bob · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is one privacy issue that a little electrical tape can cure easily.
      Using the electrical tape will be classed as theft, as you are preventing the business from optimizing, and thus maximizing the revenue derived from, the advertising. Puts me, albeit tenuously, in mind of a quote I saw recently-

      In the 1980s capitalism triumphed over communism. In the 1990s it triumphed over democracy.
      --
      "Be light, stinging, insolent and melancholy"
    4. Re:Ah well ... by MasaMuneCyrus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I predict if this comes to pass, child pornography will be brought up in defensed of warrantlessly spying on people using this technology.

    5. Re:Ah well ... by uniquename72 · · Score: 5, Funny

      I guess then you stick a picture of an empty room in front of it. Naaah...goatse.
    6. Re:Ah well ... by pla · · Score: 4, Insightful

      they can't make that illegal because they've already told to lay in plenty of duct tape in case of a chemical attack.

      "Make the most of Indian hemp seed and sow it everywhere!" - George Washington

    7. Re:Ah well ... by Original+Replica · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I mean really why do people put up with this? It's almost as if people are too lazy to defend their privacy and too eager to whine about their problems or something.

      In a way, whining about this in a widely read forum like Slashdot, is defending our privacy. Public awareness is the first step towards stopping things like this. Now the American public has an almost zero attention span, so awareness has to be loud and alarmist to even register on the social consciousness. To add to that problem, the evening news is alarmist about everything because it gains ratings, but further buries any real problems from getting the attention they need in order to be resolved.

      --
      We are all just people.
    8. Re:Ah well ... by Deadstick · · Score: 4, Funny

      Except when your favorite program is on. Then you give it a picture of the crowd at the Super Bowl.

      rj

    9. Re:Ah well ... by More_Cowbell · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Uh, mods... this may be funny too, but someone please mark it insightful...

      Many seem to be unaware that it was once illegal not to grow hemp in these here united states.

      --
      Experience teaches only the teachable. -AH
    10. Re:Ah well ... by sm62704 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      then you know what I do? I unplug the fscker, cancel my service [not that I'd deal with comcast in the first place] and go post on slashdot or something. it really isn't that important to watch TV

      I know this is going to come as a shock to you non-geezers, but you can watch TV without cable! There's satellite TV (several providers IINM) and good old trusty rabbit ears (my rabbit ears are amplified and deliver a very good picture) or roof antenna.

      When I was a kid we only had three channels, and that was in the St Louis Metro area! I'm in dinky little Springfield IL now, and I can pick up nine channels.

      Yeah, I could get dozens of channels with cable but so what? When I had cable I didn't watch very many anyway. If there's a program on cable I want to watch I'll go to a bar (I'm usually in one anyway). I used to like The Discovery Channel before they started sucking. Instead of "The Andromeda Galaxy: little known secrets" now there's "Painting race cars: little known secrets". They have ESPN on and there's... championship POKER??? Pool? WTF is next, twiddly winks?

      At least when I was a kid there was Ernie Kovacs and Red Skelton. You young whippersnappers don't know what you're missing.

      If they impliment this I'm going to have to make another article alomg the lines of Good Riddance to Bad Tech about bad tech we SHOULD get rid of... maybe add it to Dog-Slow Technologies and rename the sucker.

      -mcgrew

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    11. Re:Ah well ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      You do realize this is intended to "customize user preferences", right?

    12. Re:Ah well ... by Original+Replica · · Score: 4, Insightful

      First, no it isn't. It's whining.

      OK, how would you suggest raising public awareness about this? I only heard about it because it was posted here in Slashdot.

      Slashdot isn't really that big, and the audience is very self-selecting for certain points of view.

      Says user number 1,243,248. If Slashdot were a city that population would make it the ninth largest city in the US, between San Diego and Dallas. Yes audience is self selecting, this is a site mostly made of nerds with a libertarian bent. There is, at least, an effort to stay informed and back up statements with facts.

      --
      We are all just people.
    13. Re:Ah well ... by Omestes · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Face it, Slashdot is a SMALL community.

      Not to commit /. boosterism, but what, then, is a large community? A million people is a lot of people, a whole lot of people. Before the internet got large (since what, 95?) I doubt we ever would have considered >1m to be small.

      Besides it isn't about /. being an action network, its about, to use distasteful political speak, conscious raising. If you have a million or so concerned individuals, these individuals have friends, participate in other forums, etc... thus a local fervor on /. can spread wildly to other areas, since 1m people is pretty good for critical momentum. What local group in meatspace do you belong where you have the potential to be heard by this number of people, especially in a conversational format? Look at the Digg brouhaha last May 1, for an example. Also with such a large userbase, and such a huge amount of content, /. is over represented on places like Google (where we are often #1 in the news section lately), which do, potentially, have a wider reach.

      I also wouldn't say that we're that limited in the ideologies of the user-base. I'd say we skew towards mid-high income brackets, and towards the more libertarian techies, but thats not to say that they are a large majority. Look how many left-right, socialism-libertarianism debates plague YRO daily. We even have a share of Christian fundies resident. And while American's are the majority, we definitely have a LARGE share of folk from other countries/cultures to balance things out.

      We represent a large array of international basement dwellers, in other words.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
  2. Ceiling Comcast watches you masturbate by LuminaireX · · Score: 5, Funny

    Note to self: no more sex in the living room.

  3. 1984 by mikeabbott420 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A 'bit' like 1984? Who in the hell would go for this? Americans seem to have managed to convince their politicians and corporations that they have no interest in freedom at all.

    --
    This program was made possible by a grant from the Ultra-Humanite, and viewers like you.
    1. Re:1984 by George+Beech · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Politicians and corporations seem to have managed to convince Americans that they have no interest in freedom at all

      fixed it for ya

    2. Re:1984 by coaxial · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A 'bit' like 1984? Actually this more reminds of Max Headroom.

      Who in the hell would go for this? The vast majority of people.

      Americans seem to have managed to convince their politicians and corporations that they have no interest in freedom at all Because a majority Americans apparently don't.

      Oh and this is perfectly okay since it's a corporation and not a government because companies are beholden to a small number of hyper wealthy share holders as opposed to the populous. And companies never do anything wrong! Why would they? I mean look at the housing market. Rolling along! Look at the energy markets where it was finally let loose of the yoke of government regulation! Enron! Worldcom! Bear Stearns! These are pillars of industry. Truly, we should simply have more faith in the wisdom of our betters.
  4. Interesting by TheMeuge · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This would be useful for determining who's on the end of the cable line, using bittorrent. The FBI can then go ahead and break their doors in, during an early-morning no-knock raid.

    They can then go ahead and develop technology to determine who's watching the commercials and who isn't... and then apply a flat per-minute fee for not watching advertisements.

    Alternatively, they can charge a per-viewer fee for pay-per-view events. After all, if you crap 20 people around your HDTV to watch a $40 boxing event, isn't it logical that you should pay extra for every extra person who's watching it?

    Heck, there's all kinds of useful things a company could do with this information.

  5. At last, per-person DRM by Animats · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The RIAA and the MPAA will love this. At last, content can be licensed to the individual, not the device. "Pay per viewer", at last.

    And you can't cover the camera; if it can't see you to identify your biometrics, your licenses won't validate.

  6. Picture this by Reason58 · · Score: 5, Funny

    The ultimate reality show: watching yourself watch yourself.

  7. Opportunity to screw with their minds by StefanJ · · Score: 5, Funny

    No, no, no! Keep on spanking the monkey, but for the sake of the camera do it while surrounded by:

    Roll 1d8:

    1) Stuffed animals
    2) Feminine hygiene products
    3) Jars of Bovril
    4) Jars of Marmite
    5) Old computer hardware
    6) Cassette tapes of ABBA albums
    7) Duct tape
    8) Any two of the above

    With any luck, the Demographic Analysis software will either give up or -- unless 1960s SF shows have taught me wrong -- spew reams of paper tape, shout "DOES NOT COMPUTE!" in a tinny voice, and catch on fire.

  8. Already there? by symbolset · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What makes you think the camera is not already there? Have you disassembled your cable box?

    Food for thought. Your cable box could have a camera already. If you have cable internet you know it has enough bandwidth for monitoring you.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
    1. Re:Already there? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      They're over there right next to your couch. You really do need to clean up that mess in the hall, and you probably want to ask your wife why the UPS guy's clipboard is on the counter. They made so much noise it was hard for me to listen in on the neighbor's phone conversations.

    2. Re:Already there? by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yes it's NOT there. I have been inside many of the cable boxes. And the "camera" they are talking about is a 32X32 FLIR camera. that way it can detect bodies.

      it's a VP that really knows very little about what he is talking about opening his mouth to the public. it's more of a detector than a camera. We were talking about it at Comcast over 5 years ago when I was a part of that focus group. I cant believe they are still chasing that idea. It does not make the demographic data any more valuable than it already is.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  9. Re:It will get forced on us by Zymergy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Well.... that is until someone's underage teenage son and his underage girlfriend decide to shed all their clothes and have brazen sex in front of the cable box... The legal details of that scenario would be very interesting...
    -What does legally happen when some adult's Comacast 1984-style bidirectional TV box "inadvertently" observes illegal underage nudity and sex. I am sure if this data was in any way streamed over their network there would be numerous state and federal laws violated (or if it were retained in any way), not to mention grounds for a very hefty lawsuit.
    It would make for some interesting legal reading in any case.

  10. MORE electrical tape by wsanders · · Score: 4, Funny

    After all don't we all have tape over the flashing 88:88's already?

    --
    Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
  11. Re:They knew who I was. by aurispector · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Heh. It's hard to believe someone thought this was a good idea. After the recent warrentless wiretap fiasco, it's brutally obvious that this would be abused by some government agency somewhere. Fascists exist in every society.

    --
    I have mod points. The reign of terror begins now.
  12. It's the Santa Box by GlL · · Score: 4, Funny

    It sees you when you're sleeping, it knows when you're awake, it knows if you've been bad or good, so be good or get blackmailed.

    Does anything sound like a bad idea to these idiots? I can just see the board room discussion...

    CEO: I'm thinking anal probes.
    CLO: I don't think we're quite there yet, remember you have to work up to this stuff gradually.
    CTO: We already know everything about their web surfing, let's expand on that.
    CEO: What do you mean?
    CTO: Let's build cameras into the converter boxes, this way we can watch them.

    --
    I'm a happy pessimist. I expect and prepare for the worst, when it doesn't happen I am pleasantly surprised.
  13. Re:So that's what by BradleyUffner · · Score: 4, Interesting

    My box has a firewire port on the back. I plugged it into my laptop once and it was detected as a video for windows device. After digging around for some drivers i was actually able to watch the video coming off the box directly on the laptop. In doing some research for this it looks like all set top boxes made after a specific date are required to have this built in by the FCC.

    It would have been even better though if it acted as a tv tuner card that you could use to change channels on the box from the computer.

  14. Re:It will get forced on us by Monchanger · · Score: 5, Funny

    I wonder how the box itself would respond to observing sex. Would it find them some pr0n, advertise condoms and morning-after pills, or perhaps turn the volume way up? Could one program it to switch to an abstinence-preaching Christian network to get them to stop?

  15. Re:It will get forced on us by dosymedia · · Score: 5, Funny

    Won't *someone* think of the cable box?!!

  16. Reply from Comcast by d3ac0n · · Score: 4, Informative
    For those that didn't RTFA ike I did, AND scan down throught the comments section, Gerard Kunkel, the Comcast rep interviewed in the article, actually posted a reply to the article in the comments section of the website. Here are his comments:

    Chris,

    Your article on "Comcast Cameras to Start Watching You" portrayed some assumptions that require correction and clarification. I want to be clear that in no way are we exploring any camera devices that would monitor customer behavior.

    To gather information for your article on Comcast's exploration of cameras you picked up on my conversation with another conference attendee. The other attendee and I were deep in a conversation discussing a variety of input devices offered by a variety of vendors that Comcast is reviewing.

    The camera-based gesture recognition device is in no way designed to - or capable of - monitoring your living room. These technologies are designed to allow simple navigation on a television set just as the Wii remote uses a camera to manage its much heralded gesture-based interactivity.

    We are constantly exploring new technologies that better serve our customers. The goal is simple - a better user experience that allows the consumer to get ever increasing value out of their Comcast products.

    As with any new technology, we carefully consider the consumer benefits. In fact, we do an enormous amount of consumer testing in advance of making a product decision such as this. I'm confident that a new technology like gesture-based navigation will be fully explored with consumers to understand the product's feature benefits - and of course, the value to the consumer.

    Sincerely,
    Gerard Kunkel


    Hopefully that clarifies things a bit.

    I'm still glad I have TW cable in my area.
    --
    Official Heretic from the "Church of Global Warming". Proven right thanks to whistle blowers. AGW = Flat Earth Theory
  17. Kunkel Replies by Stanistani · · Score: 5, Informative

    From the Fine Article's Comment page:
    - - - - - - - - - -
    Chris,

    Your article on "Comcast Cameras to Start Watching You" portrayed some assumptions that require correction and clarification. I want to be clear that in no way are we exploring any camera devices that would monitor customer behavior.

    To gather information for your article on Comcast's exploration of cameras you picked up on my conversation with another conference attendee. The other attendee and I were deep in a conversation discussing a variety of input devices offered by a variety of vendors that Comcast is reviewing.

    The camera-based gesture recognition device is in no way designed to - or capable of - monitoring your living room. These technologies are designed to allow simple navigation on a television set just as the Wii remote uses a camera to manage its much heralded gesture-based interactivity.

    We are constantly exploring new technologies that better serve our customers. The goal is simple - a better user experience that allows the consumer to get ever increasing value out of their Comcast products.

    As with any new technology, we carefully consider the consumer benefits. In fact, we do an enormous amount of consumer testing in advance of making a product decision such as this. I'm confident that a new technology like gesture-based navigation will be fully explored with consumers to understand the product's feature benefits - and of course, the value to the consumer.

    Sincerely,
    Gerard Kunkel
    - - - - - - - - - -

    I despise Comcast, but thought the fellow should at least be allowed to defend himself.

    How ticked off he must be - those meddling journalist types!

  18. Re:They knew who I was. by rudeboy1 · · Score: 5, Funny

    It's probably bad that the first thing I thought of was, "damn... no more watching porn in the living room"... ...or watching TV without pants ...or making out on the couch ...or building bombs on the coffee table

    --
    Raging in an online forum won't do anything for the world around you. To see change, you must take action.
  19. Re:They knew who I was. by anup_at_mac · · Score: 5, Funny

    I was almost there with you till you said

    making out on the couch . Yeah right !!... oh wait, did you mean with an inflatable doll or something?
  20. Re:They knew who I was. by iminplaya · · Score: 4, Funny

    On the contrary. I would proudly wave my pole to the camera, make 'em envious, and I would love to see their reaction after I...uh...well, you know. It would be a new form of target practice. Go for distance... and accuracy.

    --
    What?
  21. Re:They knew who I was. by The+One+and+Only · · Score: 5, Informative

    Indeed: Italy still elects avowed fascists to high government office far more often than the United States.

    --
    In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199