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Google Attempts to Allay US Privacy Fears

Ian Lamont writes "Google is in the midst of a full-court privacy effort in Washington that involves pushing consumer privacy legislation in U.S. Congress, reaching out to privacy advocates in an effort to allay concerns about its acquisition of DoubleClick, and working with the U.S. Federal Trade Commission to 'fine-tune online advertising principles' that the agency proposed last year. Google has been under fire in Washington in recent years — the FTC investigated the Google/DoubleClick deal and the EFF has issued warnings over Google services in the past. Is Google being sincere about these issues, or is this effort mostly paying lip service to its 'do no evil' policy and an attempt to head off future clashes with policy makers?"

26 of 101 comments (clear)

  1. Google helps ... by PC+and+Sony+Fanboy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    A lot of the things google does aren't EVIL ... but aren't good. Think about the help they've given to china in the great firewall, and all the assistance they give to censoring. It shows that they're complying with the government ideas of good and evil, not the rights of the individual.

    In other words... google is going to 'do no evil' ... and evil (in the USA) would be fighting the govn't.

    1. Re:Google helps ... by skeletor935 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Google is just as evil as the rest of them. It's stupid everyone thinks they're some holy grail of awesomeness. They're in it to make money. They have your email, your search history, your calendar, your shopping, etc. all of the data which they read so they can provide you with related ads. All that data is stored somewhere, just waiting to be given up to whomever steals or subpoenas it.

    2. Re:Google helps ... by moderatorrater · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Okay, this is just a bit silly, don't you think? Google's censoring is only those sites which it's legally required to censor; Slashdot's done the same and they'll continue to do so. It's not the place of an international corporation to pick and choose which laws to follow.

      evil (in the USA) would be fighting the govn't. No, fighting the government is neither evil nor good without motivation; what motivation do they have to fight the government? They've fought it before, and I haven't heard of them caving since.

      China, France and Germany, on the other hand, have required Google to actively censor their sites. Google's expressed some regret over paying the price for China, but it's not clear cut either way. If you fight the Chinese government on Chinese soil, you lose unless you're very good at hiding yourself. Do you honestly think that Google's going to be able to avoid the Chinese agents that come to shut them down and arrest their employees? Do you think China would be better off if Google had never gone there in the first place?

      It shows that they're complying with the government ideas of good and evil, not the rights of the individual What have you done to extend more freedom and rights to the Chinese people recently?
    3. Re:Google helps ... by PC+and+Sony+Fanboy · · Score: 3, Funny

      I'm exporting capitalism and freedom to china. I shop at walmart, for 'made in china' items. This stimulates their economy and encourages capitalism (and freedom). ;)

    4. Re:Google helps ... by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not the place of an international corporation to pick and choose which laws to follow.

      No, but it is their place to decide WHERE they do business. Saudi Arabia may have a law that says a woman must be imprisoned for having pre-marital sex and that companies have to cooperate in any prosecution of such a case (by providing her emails and phone records, etc.). But I'm damn sure never going to follow that law because I'm damn sure never going to do business in Saudi Arabia as long as they have those kind of evil bullshit laws.

      Google hides behind that lame "we're just following the law" excuse just because they don't want to give up the money they stand to make from the Chinese market. The only logical response to "we're just following the law" is "If their law requires you to do evil things if you're doing business in their country, then why are you doing business in their country in the first place?"

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    5. Re:Google helps ... by secondbase · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "Just a bit silly", perhaps, but it's in response to Google's own self-promotion.

      People don't say to GM or IBM or McDonald's, "I can't believe you're selling in China." Everyone expects GM to be about money, money, money.

      But if Google sells itself as a new economy, uber-green (being good for humanity, much less the planet) company, they'd better expect a lot of heat when their privacy behavior is gray, or when they help keep the internet from being the instrument for change that some hope it will be.

    6. Re:Google helps ... by moderatorrater · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If their law requires you to do evil things if you're doing business in their country, then why are you doing business in their country in the first place? Who does it hurt for Google to not do business in China or Saudi Arabia? It hurts Google. It hurts the citizens, because they have fewer/no alternatives. It doesn't hurt China or Saudi Arabia, they'd probably prefer to have a homegrown solution which can more easily be bent to their will; Google would follow the letter of the law after they're compelled, a local company would follow the spirit of the law.

      Even if the local company is defiant, they'll start doing whatever the government wants after a series of replacements come in for upper management that say all the right things to the governing party.

      Google receives some protection because of its status as an American company; the Chinese can't just seize Google's offices and tell them they're now owned by the government. Google's international and high profile, any foul play with their employees or their equipment can be made public with an almost negligible amount of effort and raise an international shitstorm.

      But you're right that Google could refuse to do business in these countries, leaving their citizens with no alternative that has any chance of standing against the government at all. Question: how would you tell if Google's trying to help the Chinese people by giving them a viable alternative or if they're just trying to make more money with no regard for the Chinese people at all?
    7. Re:Google helps ... by JasterBobaMereel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Could you please name a country where I do not disagree with *any* laws, so I can start my business there ...

      And please don't say the USA or UK I already know I don't agree with some of their laws ...

      --
      Puteulanus fenestra mortis
    8. Re:Google helps ... by SnowZero · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But I'm damn sure never going to follow that law because I'm damn sure never going to do business in Saudi Arabia as long as they have those kind of evil bullshit laws. Ever buy oil?
    9. Re:Google helps ... by plague3106 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's not the place of an international corporation to pick and choose which laws to follow.

      Is Google not a collection of people? Don't individuals have the responsiblity to help defend the rights of others? Don't individuals have the responsiblity to stand up to unjust laws? Our founders believed that an unjust law was not a law the moment it was passed, you can see that in what happens when a law is deemed unconsitutional.

    10. Re:Google helps ... by Non-Huffable+Kitten · · Score: 2, Informative

      "A and B are both not perfect, thus they are equally good"? You know, one could hold that open human rights violations are a weighty enough reason not to do business, whereas relatively minor flaws in a system aren't.

      --
      Medium cat is MEDIUM.
  2. Sincere? I don't think so. by TripMaster+Monkey · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Is Google being sincere about these issues, or is this effort mostly paying lip service to its 'do no evil' policy and an attempt to head off future clashes with policy makers?

    The latter. This is pure damage-control on Google's part...they can see their "do no evil" veneer is starting to wear a bit thin, and are busily applying a few more layers of polish to keep things looking pretty. If they were actually sincere, they might address some of the root problems, such as the glaring privacy issues inherent in Gmail and Google Desktop.

    --
    ____

    ~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey

  3. Their Power by Paranatural · · Score: 5, Interesting

    They undoubtedly have the ability to, realistically, more thoroughly collect privacy-related data than almost any other non governmental agency.

    While I believe that they are really trying to stick to the 'Do No Evil' ideal, I do believe that the groundwork they are laying down now is rife with the ability to be exploited in the future when, perhaps, they are run by people less concerned with idealism and more concerned about profits.

    What they really need to dop is develop a variety of ways that they can, as much as they can, prevent themselves from abusing the power they have. Third party inspectors, not collecting some of the data in the first place, written and signed contracts concerning ethics and whatnot.

    Will they all eventually fail? Most likely. But they can do a lot to slow the spread of the inevitable corruption.

    At this point I think they are too idealistic to see it that way, though.

    1. Re:Their Power by swordgeek · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "While I believe that they are really trying to stick to the 'Do No Evil' ideal..."

      And with that statement, Google proves that their massive PR campaign has worked.

      Google is evil and does do evil quite regularly. They are, in fact, at least as evil as any other typical publicly traded company.

      I'm not sure now if they ever actually cleaved to the "don't be evil" philosophy, or just started it as a PR campaign and went about their business, cheerfully ignoring it internally.

      Google is idealistic? Not even remotely--they're aggressive, mercenary, and willing to sell their grandmother's sexual secrets for a profit. In other words they're just another company. The only thing that makes them unique is their amazing ability to keep blinders on most of the otherwise internet-savy public.

      --

      "People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
    2. Re:Their Power by Phurge · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I totally disagree, Google has shown remarkable restraint considering the tools they have available to them. If they were run by your standard corporate America sleazebags (eg your telcos or apple), they would be skewing the search results for their own ends, not disclosing what was sponsored or not, dropping competitors from their search etc. or they could be doing a facebook and selling off your private searches to their clients. They probably have a whole host of other options they could be exploiting currently if they really wanted to.

      Now to answer another poster's comments, I don't think the problem is with the current management but what will happen when Larry & Sergey leave, that's when your typical slimeball CEO will start to exploit Google's tools for every nickel & dime. So can you see Larry & Sergey leaving anytime soon? If they wanted to take early retirement they could have done so already, also who has the capital to buy Google? So I think for the time being Google will remain relatively benign.

      --
      I'll see your hokum and raise you a boondoggle.
    3. Re:Their Power by JakeLL · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I love how you backed up your assertions with facts.

      Oh wait... never mind.

  4. As evil as they are/will be by Prysorra · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It might make sense to push for privacy laws. Especially those that restrict the government.

    After all, Google doesn't want competition!

  5. Re:I have a question by AmaDaden · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Google is one half of the internet advertising market and DoubleClick is the other half. It's basically an instant monopoly. There are very few other guys out there. I know MS is in the market and I guess Yahoo is too but I can't think of anyone else. Add in that Google owns most peoples data (email, search, and who knows what else) and you have something that could be very very dangerous. Personally I'm not that worried but I'm keeping my eye on them

  6. Contrast to Microsoft by rtobyr · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I don't know for sure whether Google is paying lip service to privacy, but I do want to point this out: Google may have already bought double-click, but they've yet to solidify practices and procedures around this new asset. Has Microsoft ever worked with the Attorney General to work out anti-competitive issues *prior* to releasing a version of Windows? Did they approach the ISO or anybody else about what would be good to go into an open document standard prior to developing OOXML?

  7. Anthropomorphization by Hasai · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why do people insist upon treating a corporation like it is anything other than a legal fiction?

    A corporation is a thing, not a person. It has no more consciousness than a hammer does, and therefore the concept of morality does not apply. A hammer is neither moral not immoral. It is amoral, and a corporation should be handled similarly.

    This unconscious anthropomorphizing and the atmosphere of anonymization it creates has tempted more than a few people to try to pull some pretty underhanded stunts, particularly in the last ten years, then turn around and point at the sign out on the front lawn and claim that it was the "corporation" that actually did the foul deed. Then the hue and cry goes out to punish the instrument instead of the instigators. As if the cubicle worker and the office janitor had the faintest idea.

    What rubbish.

    In a hit-and-run, it isn't the car that is prosecuted. Similarly, the question should not what "Google" is doing, but what the CEO, Dr. Eric Schmidt is doing. Or, at most, what the members of the Board of Directors are doing. People make the decisions; not the hammer.

    Now; how about we this try again, and this time plug the names of people in, instead of an anonymous, faceless corporation's?

    'Nuff said.
    .

    --

    Regards;

    Hasai

    1. Re:Anthropomorphization by the_raptor · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Isn't the whole point of a corporation to shield the controlling members from responsibility for the actions of the corporation? At the very least it is to shield them from the financial responsibilities of their poor decisions, so shielding them from other responsibilities is a logical extension.

      --

      ========
      CINC, 4th Penguin Legion
  8. Google is still a business by Lhooqtoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Google's business plan is to collect information, and apply that information to generate revenue. Applied information is knowledge. Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. There are other agencies that collect information on this scale, think Homeland Security, and though they are 'heavily regulated,' there are still abuses. As much as we would prefer to believe that 'Do No Evil' actually means 'Do Good,' it doesn't. Maximizing shareholder value will necessarily mean leveraging accumulated information right up to the limit of the law.

  9. Re:No evil here.. by GIS.thrills · · Score: 3, Funny

    how about obeying existing laws? i will believe privacy legislation means something to google when the Sherman Antitrust Act means something to google.
    Their PR people are touting "No Evil" as the company aggressively expands their monopoly. Don't pee down my back and tell me its raining!

  10. Ever heard the phrase "agitate for change"...? by BAM0027 · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I read a couple of the top mod'd comments and they reminded me of the results from Google's bid for wireless space. I googled "google wireless auction" and this ("Google wireless-auction loss called possible win [ZDNet]") came up as the top hit, which led to this choice quote that _really_ got me thinking:

    The auctions raised a record $19.12 billion for government coffers.
    Analyzing Google's actions along the "good or evil" lines seems too blunt and, personally, I love this privacy action by Google. Some of the past results of their actions have demonstrated much more finesse than I think people give them credit for.

    Speaking of finesse, I personally appreciate a more graceful and elegant solution to achieving goals. In fact, I'm curious to know if the _goals_ of Google are more subtle themselves than people tend to realize.

    In counterpoint, I offer the current U.S. Administration which: 1) demonstrates little finesse, and 2) far less productivity than the costs merit.
  11. Protection racket by moeinvt · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Is Google being sincere about these issues, or is this effort mostly paying lip service to its 'do no evil' policy and an attempt to head off future clashes with policy makers?"

    They realize, just as Microsoft eventually did, that if you're a large profitable corporation that you better be sending your protection money to Washington D.C. Otherwise, armies of government lawyers and bureaucrats will be working to make life hell for you.

  12. Limits to succeed in other ways by psherma1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It only makes sense that Google wants to offer the best to advertisers (to make money) while at the same time they don't want to become big brother to do it. Those with the most personal info about online users have a distinct advantage when serving ads, and advertisers know this. If there is a limit to what info can be kept -- then Google can compete in other ways, not have to fight a war of escalating personal information intrusion.