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Should Microsoft Be Excluded From EU Government Sales?

David Gerard writes "From Groklaw: Heidi Rühle, a Green Party MEP, has presented a question regarding whether or not Microsoft should be considered as having failed to fulfill the conditions to participate in public procurement procedures in Europe, as laid out in Article 93(b) and (c) of Financial Regulation — '(b) they have been convicted of an offense concerning their professional conduct by a judgment which has the force of res judicata; (c) they have been guilty of grave professional misconduct proven by any means which the contracting authority can justify' — and the Commission anti-trust penalty just happens to fulfill both of those conditions." The EU Commission is required to respond within 6 weeks to such a question from a member of Parliament.

16 of 350 comments (clear)

  1. Big Problem for MSFT by mfh · · Score: 5, Funny

    The real question here is, how much would the necessary bribe be, and who is corrupt enough in the EU Commission to push this through for MSFT?

    Also, will the next big US war be in the UK?

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    1. Re:Big Problem for MSFT by neongrau · · Score: 5, Informative

      1/2 the size regarding landmass. i'm pretty sure the true (software) market size of the EU is larger when compared to the US.

    2. Re:Big Problem for MSFT by sashapup · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yup, about 63% larger.

      US Population: 301,139,947
      EU Population: 490,426,060

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    3. Re:Big Problem for MSFT by poetmatt · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Where do you come up with this magic "EU is half of the size of the US business market" number? Where do you derive at this information? According to wiki, EU and US GDP are practically equal.

      Anyway, it's the other way around about your statement. It's "who is corrupt enough to be bought off by MS to cancel this", not the other way around. Meanwhile, if MS even tries to cancel this it will backfire on them bigtime (antitrust round 3 anyone?). I'd say that this is pretty much guaranteed although the bigger question is how to enforce existing contracts through that duration and also the question of if the countries in the EU will have the balls to follow through on this.

      Not to be totally ad hominem, but where is your incorrect logic coming from? The situation here is the exact opposite of what you posted, and coincides with your signature. WTF?

      It's like one of those spam letters with a philosophical message at the bottom.

    4. Re:Big Problem for MSFT by oliderid · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not really...The issue here is whether or not the EU as an administration should order products/licenses from Microsoft.

      The issue isn't whether or not Microsoft can do business in the EU. The European union bureaucracy is huge, but not that huge.

      As an European and an user of open source products I don't support this proposition.

      Microsoft has been punished already. Time to move on. Microsoft is already facing serious competitions and its dominant position looks less invicible than it used to be.
      Technically/Financially Open Source is the way forward for public services. But if Microsoft can prove that their products are objectively better for an administration, then I see no reason why it shouldn't be used.

      Leftists such as this green party are taking it as an easy ideological shot against big companies (they hate them). I don't support that.
    5. Re:Big Problem for MSFT by richlv · · Score: 5, Informative

      actually, this is simply following their own procedures. if you have a law regarding procurements that states in what cases a company can not participate, you sort of are expected to follow it. mostly.
      in this case the question would be whether a single company should be awarded an exception.

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    6. Re:Big Problem for MSFT by truthsearch · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Microsoft has been punished already. Time to move on. If Microsoft can prove that their products are objectively better for an administration, then I see no reason why it shouldn't be used. Why should any government, or any organization for that matter, do business with a company convicted of illegally influencing their industries? And add to that the fact that Microsoft has not significantly adjusted their business practices, which demonstrates that they have not been adequately punished.

      But this shouldn't be about punishment. It's about who you want to do business with. I don't think any government should buy licenses from a software company that's been found guilty of manipulating the software industry. If you can't play by the rules you shouldn't be allowed to play at all.
    7. Re:Big Problem for MSFT by Foobar+of+Borg · · Score: 5, Funny

      Perhaps if Ballmer had to spend a few months behind bars?
      You're not suggesting that corporate leaders have to actually pay for their crimes, are you? What kind of backwards place is Europe, anyway?
  2. Criminal organisation by tsa · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They're basically a criminal organisation according to EU law. I don't want to deal with an organisation that habitually breaks the law.

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    1. Re:Criminal organisation by Captain+Splendid · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, I have to say it's nice to see somebody treating MS like the convicted monopolists they are (hint hint wink wink nudge nudge).

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  3. This is unlikely to happen by Biotech9 · · Score: 5, Interesting
    For a start this is not EU-wide. Basically there is an EU directive that states EU members are allowed to block contracts from companies breaking the rules listed in Article 93,
     

    1. Candidates or tenderers shall be excluded from participation in a procurement procedure if:

    (a) they are bankrupt or being wound up, are having their affairs administered by the courts, have entered into an arrangement with creditors, have suspended business activities, are the subject of proceedings concerning those matters, or are in any analogous situation arising from a similar procedure provided for in national legislation or regulations;
    (b) they have been convicted of an offence concerning their professional conduct by a judgment which has the force of res judicata;

    (c) they have been guilty of grave professional misconduct proven by any means which the contracting authority can justify;

    (d) they have not fulfilled obligations relating to the payment of social security contributions or the payment of taxes in accordance with the legal provisions of the country in which they are established or with those of the country of the contracting authority or those of the country where the contract is to be performed;

    (e) they have been the subject of a judgment which has the force of res judicata for fraud, corruption, involvement in a criminal organisation or any other illegal activity detrimental to the Communities' financial interests;

    (f) following another procurement procedure or grant award procedure financed by the Community budget, they have been declared to be in serious breach of contract for failure to comply with their contractual obligations.

    2. Candidates or tenderers must certify that they are not in one of the situations listed in paragraph 1. But that is not a mandatory for all EU states, it is only mandatory for EU institutions and some member states. But even that is a pretty massive lump of the EU market and would sting like hell (the ban would be for 5 years). Not only that but imagine the resources turned onto moving from MS to Open source solutions. It could end MS as a major player in the EU institutions and that would knock on into the private sector.

    Not to mention the added bonus of all that cash heading into European projects like KDE and linux instead of overseas.

    Not sure what the American Gov would think of it though...
  4. Re:I wonder who Heidi Rühle's campaign con by neongrau · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Green party != Greenpeace

    After all it's a political party, and they must have more on their agenda than environmental and health issues.

    Not every green party member can be minister for environment and/or health.

  5. Re:Ummm, yeah... by PinkyDead · · Score: 5, Informative

    I would imagine that the exclusion would follow standard public procurement procedures within the EU, whereby Microsoft would be excluded from applying for public tenders because they weren't compliant with existing regulations.

    Where they are already in place, they would not need to apply for tenders. If new departments etc came into existence, then they could use other presentation software and would have budgets for training etc.

    So basically Microsoft wouldn't be able to grow their existing base, until they sorted out their compliance. But current users of their software would be unaffected.

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  6. Re:EU is picking winners: Why. by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If Microsoft wasn't the best choice, why elminate them from the process?

    Microsoft has repeatedly broken the law to become the "best choice" by introducing artificial problems with competing products. It's the same issue as "should the government sign a contract with a concrete supplier who has the lowest price, but also has been repeatedly convicted of blowing of their competitors' factories and hiding bodies in the concrete they sell." According to the laws, no the EU should not be giving contract to either MS or this hypothetical concrete supplier.

    Who is going to benifit the most from this, and what is the connection to this group?

    It doesn't matter who benefits the most. The idea is for the the EU people to benefit by discouraging criminal acts that are harmful to them. If anyone else benefits, it is incidental.

    Is there an eu msft that they are trying to shepard[sic] to the big time, or is it simple corruption?

    Umm, I don't even understand what question you're trying to ask.

    Who wins with MS out of the picture?

    The people of the EU win.

  7. Re:Ah, you forget... by clickety6 · · Score: 5, Funny

    You forget that the USA population is growing

    Yep, but as it's mostly around the waistline that they're growing, they'll all be dead of obesity-related illnesses by the time they're 40 ;-)

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  8. Re:Ah, you forget... by meringuoid · · Score: 5, Funny
    You forget that the USA population is growing, while Europe's population is in decline.

    Actually, the population of the EU is increasing. Fast. We may not be doing an awful lot of breeding, but look at those borders go! We're the only major power on earth with an active policy of territorial expansion.

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