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Europe Rejects Plan To Criminalize File-Sharing

Lineker points out a report that the European Parliament has rejected plans to criminalize file-sharing by private individuals. The amendment to remove the anti-piracy measures passed by a vote of 314-297. The decision is expected to influence how France, with its strict anti-piracy polices, approaches this issue when it assumes the EU presidency later this year. From InfoWorld: "France's so-called Oliviennes strategy to combat copyright abuse includes a 'three strikes and you are out' approach: Offenders lose the right to an Internet account after being caught sharing copyright-protected music over the Internet for a third time. The report is significant because it 'signifies resistance among MEPs to measures currently being implemented in France to disconnect suspected illicit filesharers,' the Open Rights Group said in a statement.

31 of 291 comments (clear)

  1. I have to ask by causality · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Regardless of what France does, When I see that the EU generally doesn't just cave in anytime a corporation wants to use their government to further its own interests, my first thought is: Did someone steal the balls of every American politician and ship them overseas or something? It would explain quite a bit...

    --
    It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    1. Re:I have to ask by sticks_us · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Did someone steal the balls of every American politician and ship them overseas or something?

      Not quite. I believe the balls were probably sold to a large international corp. through a complicated but effective purchase (or maybe a rent-to-own) program.

      That's not to say the EU gets off the hook, the fact this thing even came to a vote (narrowly losing 314-297) means its only a matter of time until it, or a more convoluted version of it, passes.

      --
      "Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it." -- Donald Knuth
    2. Re:I have to ask by PitaBred · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Balls? Who needs balls when you're in a corporation's pocket? "ideals" and "ethics" are for poor people.

    3. Re:I have to ask by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Regardless of what France does, When I see that the EU generally doesn't just cave in anytime a corporation wants to use their government to further its own interests If eight votes went the other way, the outcome would have been completely different. Clearly there is no 'united' thought about this plan in Europe.
    4. Re:I have to ask by Icarium · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So Europeans are human too. Who'da thunk it?

  2. What about corporate pirates ? by bug1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So if a corporation gets caught violating copyright three times, does corporation get banned from the internet, or is it yet another case where corporations get a free ride ?

    Who was it that said that "a corporation has a body but no soul" ?

  3. The problem with not criminalizing it.... by mark-t · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Let's say somebody who isn't a big name copyrights a particular work and starts to sell it, and let's say that a big publishing firm sees as a potential threat. What the bigger publishing firm could do is snatch the work and start distributing it (at no cost) online themselves, using their own fatter distribution pipe for the purpose, and effectively locking the smaller publisher out of benefiting from their own work.

    This sort of scenario has implications on GNU software also... if file sharing of copyrighted material without permission wasn't criminal, somebody could take some GNU software and make changes and release those changes under whatever terms they wanted via filesharing, since copyright infringement wouldn't apply to them in that case.

    I am perpetually amazed at how supposedly intelligent people cannot see that sharing copyrighted files without permission of the author not being copyright infringement is a contradiction in terms.

    1. Re:The problem with not criminalizing it.... by Mr2001 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What the bigger publishing firm could do is snatch the work and start distributing it (at no cost) online themselves [...]
      if file sharing of copyrighted material without permission wasn't criminal, somebody could take some GNU software and make changes and release those changes under whatever terms they wanted via filesharing You seem to have misunderstood the difference between criminal and civil law. "Criminalizing" something means making it a crime, the sort of thing that the police can arrest you for without anyone having to sue you first.

      Copyright infringement is still a civil tort, and even though you won't be hauled off in handcuffs for trading songs, you can still be sued for it.

      The fact that the EU decided not to criminalize file sharing doesn't mean they legalized it.

      And by the way, since you brought up the GPL... those of us who are opposed to copyright in general (I don't believe infringement should be a crime or a civil tort) tend to believe that the main effect of the GPL is to give back the rights that copyright law takes away. If anyone could distribute any software without anyone else's permission, would it really matter if some of them didn't include the source code? RMS says yes, but I say no.
      --
      Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
    2. Re:The problem with not criminalizing it.... by Hemogoblin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There are many things that aren't "criminal", but are still illegal. For example, you can be punished if you break a contract, or if you perform a tort. That's what copyright infringement should fall under: tort law. Not some stupid criminal law with mandatory sentencing and fines.

    3. Re:The problem with not criminalizing it.... by orlanz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      First, "file sharing of copyrighted material without permission" is illegal in most contexts, the proper term is copyright infringement. You "infringe" on the copyright owned by an entity. Don't let the term fool you, it is extremely bad to commit. Per the punishment, it is far worse than stealing; thou per the law, it isn't.

      Which brings us to the point. I am not sure how it is in the EU, but in the US, "crime" is a very strong word. It is where murder, rape, fraud, and theft sit and ponder all day. It is so strong, that the government comes to punish you by taking you to court on behalf of the people, and dealing out a hefty punishment in terms of community service, fines, jail time, and death!

      Copyright infringement currently falls under Civil law, where the entity being damaged goes after the one who is doing the damage. Now, in civil law, you need to show quantifiable (read: must be in dollars) damage to punish the infringer. You don't need such things for a crime. Also, the punishment isn't (read: shouldn't) going to be community service, fines, jail time, or death.

      WHY? Well, in a crime, you tried to damage society and need to pay society or are removed from society. In a civil matter, you pay the guy you damaged all the... damages, court costs, and bit on top for being a bad boy.

      In a way thou, maybe copyright infringement should be a crime. As, in a crime, the court needs to prove "without a reasonable doubt" that someone committed it. In a civil matter, I think there just needs to be a high probability. Plus, all the revenue/damages are awarded to society instead of the copyright holder or some pointless middleman who says he represents a bunch of them.

      IANAL blah blah blah.

    4. Re:The problem with not criminalizing it.... by mark-t · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sure.... if you can come up with some way of giving people an incentive to produce new works and receive due recognition for them without somebody else of possibly higher profile coming along and getting all the credit. Currently, that's what copyright does right now.

    5. Re:The problem with not criminalizing it.... by burgundysizzle · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you want to move copyright infringement to covered under criminal law it should be removed from being a civil matter at the same time (so you can't be had twice) and any fines collected go to the government not the copyright owner. No statutory damages to the copyright owner, just a criminal prosecution. I bet you no-one or very few people get prosecuted though if that ever happens.

  4. Re:RIGHT? by theheadlessrabbit · · Score: 3, Insightful

    No, there aren't many of what we would call rights in France. Freedom of Speech for example. They couldn't have a Led Zeppelin day on the radio for example, since a fixed percentage of the music must be in French. So freedom and constitutional rights in the United States have eroded to the point where Freedom is now defined as the ability to play Led Zeppelin all day?

    How the hell do Content Laws have anything to do with Freedom of speech?

    We have Canadian content laws in Canada as well.

    CanCon laws in no way impeed my freedom to say what I want, when I want. I can say that Stephen Harper is a fucking douche, whos anti-media policies would be right at home in North Korea. I have the freedom to walk right up to his house, knock on his door and say it to his face (if he answers his own door...)
    --
    -I only code in BASIC.-
  5. Re:Outlawing file sharing is like... by QuantumG · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Outlawing file sharing is like outlawing jaywalking. I agree but for different reasons. Both are a case of government ruling over people instead of representing them. People *want* to jaywalk.. they want to get from one side of the road to the other by the shortest possible route and they're willing to dodge traffic to do it. Who the hell are you to say they cant? The majority? No, we all jaywalk. So where is this authority coming from? No-where! And that's why jaywalking laws are bullshit and shouldn't even exist, let alone be enforced. Same goes for file sharing. I think we've all made it abundantly clear that we want to share files and most of us, the majority of us, don't give care about any laws we may be breaking whilst doing it.

    --
    How we know is more important than what we know.
  6. Re:RIGHT? by Whiney+Mac+Fanboy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    and don't get the accent quite right, then take it as an insult!

    Has this actually happened to you?

    --
    There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
  7. Dumb idea in the first place by pclminion · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Define "Internet account." As in, your name is on the bill from some ISP somewhere? Are these people aware that you don't actually have to have an "account" to use the Internet?

  8. Re:Outlawing file sharing is like... by iminplaya · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "It's so convenient to have a system where everyone is a criminal"

    Godwin'd

    Thanks

    --
    What?
  9. Re:Outlawing file sharing is like... by Rakishi · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Who the hell are you to say they cant? The majority? No, we all jaywalk. So where is this authority coming from? No-where! How about all the people who actually want to drive instead of playing "dodge the stupid jaywalker." You want to jaywalk, sure thing as long as certain conditions are met. These would include such things as drivers having total immunity, criminal and civil, if they hit someone crossing in a non-designated place. Likewise the jaywalker (or his estate) would be required to pay any and all costs that result including cost to the driver who hit them (such as lost time) and estimated costs to society from the resulting traffic jam.
  10. Re:Outlawing file sharing is like... by QuantumG · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How about all the people who actually want to drive instead of playing "dodge the stupid jaywalker." They want to jaywalk too.. just ask em.

    --
    How we know is more important than what we know.
  11. Re:Underground by thegrassyknowl · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Plus, it would be almost impossible to enforce a ban.

    Well, I say... I am sitting not 100M (about 300feet for you Americans) from a free public wireless access point. From my desk I can see at least another 5 with weak or no security.

    There is wireless Internet available free for all at the restaurant I eat at down the road. There's free wireless at my local library. You don't have to join the library or ask for any kind of permission to use it.

    There are two access points near my house with the same default SSID and no encryption with fairly huge pipes behind them (obviously owned by a bunch of clueless people).

    I'd like to see them stop me getting on the Internet. Furthermore, I'd like to seem them trace it back to me, given I was on a public access point, change my MAC address and make a point to sit where there is no security vision (at home, at my office desk, etc).

    I hope this post highlights the stupidity that governments with these kind of policies are demonstrating.

    Also, since when is Internet access a right for all? I remember that there was an election promise here to give Internet to all because all needed fast broadband connectivity. How is that a priority of the gumbiment?

    --
    I drink to make other people interesting!
  12. Re:Outlawing file sharing is like... by QuantumG · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Here's how you do your survey:

    "Hey motorist, do you think we should have stricter jaywalking laws?"
    "Damn straight kid, I'm sick of all these idiots getting in front of my car."

    Here's how to see if the people want it or not:

    "Hey pedestrian, you just jaywalked, here's a $200 fine, and if I catch you again it's off to jail!"
    "You're fucking kidding me right copper? Here's what I think of your ticket." [rip] [rip]

    And if I need to explain this to you then frankly I doubt that you ever get out of your car.

    --
    How we know is more important than what we know.
  13. Yes it has happened to me by aepervius · · Score: 3, Insightful

    But not in the country you might think of. I visited Texas back in Dec 2004-Jan 05 (duty travel in DFW, not tourism). When I entered shops, people smiled to me, asked me what I wanted. Then I spoke to them with my thoroughly thick french accent. The fucking majority then grimaced, some even went on to tell me that french people are assholes and support terrorism.

    I let my colleague do the rest of the buying & interaction. Luckily the firm I visited did not offer such negative interaction... Nonetheless I certainly told my family, friends and colleague to chose other spot for vacation than the US, or learn to disguise their accent and speak perfect english.

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
    1. Re:Yes it has happened to me by Rob8 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I lived in Luxembourg for 6 Months. I can only speak English and Afrikaans. The Germans were polite and helpful. The Locals were polite and helpful. The French looked down their noses at me, refused to even speak to me because I dared to address them in English. Even my girlfriend who speaks fluent German got a monosyllabic response from the French - usually "NO!". Take what you want from that, I no longer have any time what so ever for the arrogance of the French.

    2. Re:Yes it has happened to me by DaFallus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Go somewhere more enlightened and liberal, like the Mid-Atlantic, New England, or California (Chicago's nice too... just don't stray very far). DO tell those you know to avoid backwater hick areas with an ingrained culture of intolerance. One could also tell people to avoid areas with pretentious assholes who make uninformed generalizations about an entire population of people just so they can feel superior.
      --
      No one cares what your captcha was

      Houston TX, USA
  14. Inacurate article? by KinkyClown · · Score: 2, Insightful
    FTA:

    The European Parliament rejected attempts to criminalize the sharing of files by private individuals and threw out the idea of banning copyright abusers from the Internet, in a plenary vote Thursday. I hope the article is not accurate but if I am reading this it states NOTHING on sharing public domain/freeware/private software; meaning enforcing this new law (if it was to be accepted) meant I was braking the law if I where share my own pictures!
  15. Why US do not like French by baker_tony · · Score: 2, Insightful

    > Why so much people in US do not like us French people ?

    Because if you're made to not like someone, then you immediatly dismiss any good they're doing, like health, lifestyle, nuclear power, as being BAD, so you don't demand it for yourself...

  16. Re:RIGHT? by jovius · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Germany was largely destroyed by its own stratetic errors. If they had interpreted their intelligence right they would have prevented the invasion. Germany was tied by the eastern front - another failure. But, if they had commenced that campaign only a couple of weeks earlier it would have been a success. Germany could have been able to secure their positions in Europe, if they had acted rationally.

  17. Re:RIGHT? by Oktober+Sunset · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As opposed to WW2 where the Germans did reach Paris by going through Belgium.

  18. Re:RIGHT? by fbjon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    No, it makes perfect sense. If you buy cigarettes and inflict harm on your health, it's only fair that you have to contribute more to the health insurance with every pack you buy. The conflict of interest only exists for a corrupt government that seeks profits above all else.

    --
    True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
  19. Re:RIGHT? by niktemadur · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's true that Stalin had his military geniuses shot and surrounded himself with incompetent cronies like Budienny and Timoshenko, who faithfully toed the party line.
    However, Stalin also knew that Zhukov, who was also wildly popular with the troops (a major point of jealousy and paranoia), was the one general he could not afford to execute.
    And so, Zhukov was shipped off to Siberia and was brought back when the cronies had things on the verge of catastrophe, such as the defense of Moscow and the siege of Leningrad. And then, there was Stalingrad and Kursk.
    In fact, it is said that Zhukov was the only man in the world who could storm into Stalin's office and call him an idiot to his face, which he did on occasion, making everybody around feel like they were about to have a heart attack.

    --
    Lil' Thindime, lilting a lacrimose lament, krashes the kwaint konfines of Kokonino Kounty
  20. Re:Outlawing file sharing is like... by Rakishi · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Everyone jaywalks. You said yourself that you jaywalk. There isn't anyone under the age of 15 who hasn't jaywalked. That most people have done it does not mean that most people oppose making it illegal. I for example don't. Likewise making something illegal does not mean it will always be prosecuted and exceptions can be put into the law itself.

    If you think laws against jaywalking are not unjust then you are, quite simply, a fascist. No that's what you think, I simply find the trade-off worth it. Given how such laws exist in most of the US and how they are enforced in many place it seems most people agree with me. If they didn't agree then like in NYC (where the opposition only had a small majority) any effort to prosecute jaywalkers would very quickly be killed.

    End of discussion. Go away now. In other words you can't find any actual evidence to back up your point so you're running away? I at least managed to find a survey to back up your point which is apparently more than you're able to do. Likewise I can point to the failed attempt to enforce jaywalking in NYC as an example of what happens in a place where the majority supports jaywalking.

    Since you started this debate it does fall on you to cite your sources, please I'm waiting.