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Monster Cables Pushes Around the Wrong Small Company

Posted by Zonk on from the keeps-the-electricity-demons-out dept.

Alien54 writes "Audioholics has a fun read regarding a recent legal dustup involving Monster Cables. The well-known (some might say notorious) cabling company sent a cease and desist letter to Blue Jeans Cable over a supposed patent violation. What the Monster folks couldn't have known was that Blue Jeans president Kurt Denke used to be a lawyer. His response is as humorous as it is thorough. ' Let me begin by stating, without equivocation, that I have no interest whatsoever in infringing upon any intellectual property belonging to Monster Cable. Indeed, the less my customers think my products resemble Monster's, in form or in function, the better ... If there is more than one such connector design in actual use by Monster Cable as to which appropriation of trade dress is alleged, of course, I will require this information for each and every such design. On the basis of what I have seen, both in the USPTO documents you have sent and the actual appearance of Monster Cable connectors which I have observed in use in commerce, it does not appear to me that Monster Cable is in a position to advance a nonfrivolous claim for infringement of these marks.'"

37 of 572 comments (clear)

  1. Monster cable has been taking advantage... by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 5, Informative

    In my opinion, Monster cable has been taking advantage of the lack of technical knowledge of the general public to convince people to buy EXTREMELY expensive cables, when much cheaper cables would provide equal performance.

    Performance of audio systems is not heavily affected by cables, if only the size of the wires is adequate.

    1. Re:Monster cable has been taking advantage... by CRCulver · · Score: 5, Informative

      They might have had some (quickly rebutted) case in the analogue era, but with the digital era they are just outright cheating customers. You can get an HDMI cable for as low as 15 cents, but Monster continues to charge up towards $100 for theirs. Obviously with digital any cable is as good as another, because the system has error correction built into it and is not susceptible to distortion from nearby wiring.

      Still, on Usenet I've seen people who, probably because they already "invested" thousands of dollars in Monster Cables, placed so much trust in the company that they brought out arcane arguments that, yes, Monster digital interconnects are better than anything else on the market. After all, can't you hear how "brighter" and "warmer" the sound is once you've blown money on the interconnects?

    2. Re:Monster cable has been taking advantage... by peipas · · Score: 3, Informative

      EXTREMELY expensive cables That is 100% correct. I bought a spool of 12 gauge speaker wire from Lowes for pennies on the dollar spent on Monster cable.

      There is one Monster product, however, that was worth the purchase. I sought an FM modulator and while none that I tried had any problems with reception, the several I tried before the Monster unit had awful, flat sound quality. In this case the premium was for a superior product, not just a name.
    3. Re:Monster cable has been taking advantage... by Ariastis · · Score: 5, Informative

      No, they did it with a coat hanger (At the consumerist)

    4. Re:Monster cable has been taking advantage... by TheRealFixer · · Score: 4, Informative

      Pretty much. Here's a good article that summarizes the state of "premium" cables.

      http://www.electronichouse.com/article/the_truth_about_high_end_cables/C29

    5. Re:Monster cable has been taking advantage... by hudsonhawk · · Score: 5, Informative

      No, the Consumerist did no such thing. If you read the article, all the Consumerist did, in fact, was quote a 4 year old post by a random dude on an internet forum.

      That's hardly what I would call a reliable source of information, and yet people continue to perpetuate the mean as truth because it appeals to their pre-existing notions.

    6. Re:Monster cable has been taking advantage... by dmd53 · · Score: 3, Informative

      I remember that! I've just spent the last semester studying the properties of materials affecting conductivity, and my main conclusion has been... copper is pretty darn good for the price. Sure, there are some fancy things you can do like doping it with silver and the like, but the addition of most things will actually raise the resistivity of the alloy. For good hi-fi, all you need is pure copper, and I'd be very surprised if Monster has a patent on that.

      By the way, this isn't the first time Monster Cables has used frivolous lawsuits to their advantage-- they also have a habit of suing anyone with the word "Monster" in their name:

      http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/HallOfShame/MonsterCable/MonsterCable.shtml

    7. Re:Monster cable has been taking advantage... by Sandbags · · Score: 4, Informative

      Equal performance is subject to debate. True, a simple increase in cable guage provides better signal, but filtering of external interference, Monster does that a bit better than their competitors. Is it worth it though? If you install properly sized cables and route them away from sources of interference, it's no big deal.

      Now, that's really for analog signals... As for digital, it's not really a concern. A $15 HDMI or DVI cable is just as good as a $85 HDMI cable, assuming they're both rated for the same frequency response and distance (HDMI has several classifications, and it CAN make a difference).

      As for fiber cables, light is light. A thicker, stronger shell simply helps protect you from over bending the cable and refracting the beam, but it adds no shielding or signal quality improvement of any kind, and in fact, the fiber core itself must be a very specific size in microns. Changing this size like you do in ordinary cables is not optional.

      If you have a high end system, increasing cable thickness, adding better cable contacts, and improving shielding can be important, and can improve audio and video quality. On the other hand, unless you're running cables across power lines, very close to speakers, close to tube TVs, or over long distances, Monster offers no "discernable" differences vs their half priced competitors.

      That said never use the cheap shit cables that actually come in the box. Allways buy quality replacements, and ensure the connectors are made from materials that don't corrode (i.e. not copper, silver, or aluminum) gold contacts are great, platinum is not worth the expense. In most cases you'll need new cables anyway just to make the distance between devices as 3' is almost never enough, but don't buy cheap unshielded cables ever. Allways look for decent stuff.

      When buying a stereo or speakers, look to buy models that support screw on connections or tightening rings for the speaker wire. The cheap little clip style slots, like you typically find on the back of cheaper speakers and all-in-one stereo units do not provide a sufficient contact surface for 100 watt and higher outputs.

      As for filtering, modern home theater equipment is more computer than TV or stereo, and this stuff is VERY sensitive to low quality poewr. A surge protector is WORTHLESS! You need power filtration with real time voltage regulation. Monster does a good job providing very high quality filtering systems for as little as $200-300. If you have high def, a suround sound stereo, a PS3 or xbox360, keep this in mind. 97% of all electronic failure is the result of low or inconsitent power. Surge protectors only stop massive oversurges (typically over 160 volts). Damage to computer electronics cn occur at voltage below 104 or above 116. Do your lights ever flicker in your house? Especially when your AC turns on or when your fridge kicks in? If so, GO BUY A POWER FILTER for every digital device in your house!!!

      --
      There is no contest in life for which the unprepared have the advantage.
    8. Re:Monster cable has been taking advantage... by MightyYar · · Score: 2, Informative

      an HDMI cable for as low as 15 cents [amazon.com] Actually, $5.05 shipped :)

      Most of the other sellers offer it for $2 with $3 shipping, if you prefer...
      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    9. Re:Monster cable has been taking advantage... by LordNimon · · Score: 1, Informative

      Obviously with digital any cable is as good as another.

      That's not true. On higher frequencies (like 1080p DVI), a cheaper cable will distort the signal so much that error correction cannot fix it. Besides, error correction is meant for random, infrequent problems. It should never be used for generally poor transmission.

      This page will explain it.

      --
      And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
      To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
    10. Re:Monster cable has been taking advantage... by torkus · · Score: 2, Informative

      Sorry, but no. On several grounds.

      Yes, you can buy a DEFECTIVE HDMI cable. One that actually works will - quite simply - work.

      Second, error correction is meant to fix ... errors. As long as your errors don't exceed the maximum corruption threshold it doesn't matter how many it corrects. This is basic probability and statistics. For a more empirical example - look at your good old CD. Error correction is done frequently with no data loss except in gross cases.

      Digital systems have very specific signal specifications. Your data either comes across intact according to those specs or it doesn't. pass/fail. 1 or 0. There is no subjective measurement. There is no 'brighter' sound. That's the WHOLE POINT of digital.

      --
      You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
    11. Re:Monster cable has been taking advantage... by harrkev · · Score: 2, Informative

      Performance of audio systems is not heavily affected by cables, if only the size of the wires is adequate.
      Mostly true, but quality is worth paying for.

      Gold plating will help resist corrosion. Thicker cables are also more likely to resist breaking. For line-level audio & video stuff, more shielding is better, especially for long runs and near 120V lines. Also the connectors (and the wires where they enter the connectors) is the place most likely to break, so premium connectors with nice strain relief are definately nice to have.

      I am more than happy to pay a little more for premium cable that I know won't break or cause me problems. It is frustrating to spend 15 minutes debugging a piece of video equipment, just to find the problem is a cable that has broken (I know from experience).

      I have never purchased Monster, but would have considered it if I could find them on a great sale. Now that I know what type of low-life scum-sucking company they are, I will not touch their stuff with a 10-foot pole, even if they were giving it away.

      --
      "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
    12. Re:Monster cable has been taking advantage... by Pax00 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I don't know man... most people I know would look at the oscilloscope and ask where the LSD was.

    13. Re:Monster cable has been taking advantage... by petermgreen · · Score: 2, Informative

      speaker cables shouldn't need shielding. At those kinds of powers it is going to take a hell of a lot of intereference to have a noticable effect.

      Take a look at van-damme proffessional speaker cable (which is afaict what is used at many big events) and you will notice that it is not shielded.

      On long speaker runs your biggest problem is going to be volt drop so the most important thing is to use a thick cable.

      On the other hand line level cables most certainly do need shielding because of the much lower power involved. Balanced line is also preferable for long runs.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    14. Re:Monster cable has been taking advantage... by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 2, Informative

      Depends on the kind of connection if shielding matters. For speakers, no it really doesn't. Speakers are low impedance, balanced connections and as such are pretty much immune to noise. There just isn't much out there that produces sufficient amounts of interference to cause even a token response in speakers. Hence, regular line cord is a great choice for speaker cable, since the concern is low resistance. For consumer unbalanced interconnects it is a concern. They are very high impedance connections (input impedance on most devices is around 30k ohms or so) and very low voltage. As such, it doesn't take much interference to potentially be audible. Thus good shielded coax cable is the way to go.

  2. Monster Cable versus wire coat hangers by Josh+Triplett · · Score: 1, Informative

    For more proof that Monster has nothing special, see the Consumerist's comparison of Monster Cable versus wire coat hangers. Nobody could tell the difference.

    1. Re:Monster Cable versus wire coat hangers by hudsonhawk · · Score: 5, Informative

      Did you in fact read the article you're posting?

      The Consumerist did no such comparison. Rather, a reader sent them a 4 year old post from a random dude on another forum, which the Consumerist quoted and posted, turning it into a popular Slashdot meme.

      Groupthink at work, gotta love it. The burden of proof is always non-existent when it backs up your pre-existing notions of truth.

    2. Re:Monster Cable versus wire coat hangers by Josh+Triplett · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yes, I read the article; I wouldn't link to it otherwise. If you want more precision, s/the Consumerist's comparison/the comparison posted on the Consumerist/.

      The article gives plenty of detail on their testing methodology, assuming the original poster didn't make it up, and nothing posted on the Internet can easily prove or disprove that possibility. Thus, take it with the same grain of salt you take with everything else on the Internet.

    3. Re:Monster Cable versus wire coat hangers by greg1104 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Some quick research suggests wire hangers are 12 gauge and made out of solid steel; what the audio cable industry would call "solid core". Monster is a bit evasive about what's in their Monster Ultra Series THX 1000 speaker cables, saying only "4 large gauge copper conductors"; based on other Monster cable products I'd expect they're 12 or 14 gauge stranded wire.

      I do a fair amount of single-blind speaker cable tests myself, certainly more than this one anecdotal experiment. Differences here are subtle but I've done way too many comparisons with consistent results to think they don't exist. The best results in any listening comparison are always when comparing with music the listener is intimately familiar with, so their test starts out badly in that regard. Generally I prefer the sound of fat solid wire to anything else. People like stranded wire because it's easy to work with, but it doesn't sound as good as a solid wire of the same gauge. Accordingly, I'm unsurprised that they found the solid steel coat hanger wire to be similar to the Monster cable.

      The thing most people miss about that article is that there were two listeners who were cable of hearing the difference between the Monster product and the Belden cable they started with, suggesting there is an audible difference to cables--just not a major difference between the Monster and the hanger. I suspect that further, better tests would show a ranking like this:

      Belden 14AWG Stranded Copper < Monster 1000 ~= 12AWG Solid Steel < 12AWG Solid Copper

      I've had audiophile speaker cables here up to the $1000 price range (but not the expensive Monsters, their stuff is awful per dollar). Nowadays I'm usually happy with some hand twisted pair designs I wired up with 12AWG solid copper purchased from Home Depot. It's certainly superior to the 14AWG stranded cables I made out of an extension cord also purchased there. The extension cord "design" does sound better than most cheap speaker cables, including the budget Monster line; it is good quality copper and almost thick enough.

  3. Summary Missed Best Paragraph by iamhigh · · Score: 3, Informative
    I like this one...

    Further, if any of these patents or trademarks has been licensed to any entity, please provide me with copies of the licensing agreements. I assume that Monster Cable International, Ltd., in Bermuda, listed on these patents, is an IP holding company and that Monster Cable's principal US entity pays licensing fees to the Bermuda corporation in order to shift income out of the United States and thereby avoid paying United States federal income tax on those portions of its income; my request for these licensing agreements is specifically intended to include any licensing agreements, including those with closely related or sham entities, within or without the Monster Cable "family," and without regard to whether those licensing agreements are sham transactions for tax shelter purposes only or whether they are bona fide arm's-length transactions.
    --
    No comprende? Let me type that a little slower for you...
  4. Re:The word "owned" comes to mind PWNED by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 2, Informative

    read every word of that rather long article, and all I have to say is "OWNED". Wow. Normally I refer from such Internet slang,

    I believe the proper iSlang is PWNED!

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  5. Whoah. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Further, if any of these patents or trademarks has been licensed to any entity, please provide me with copies of the licensing agreements. I assume that Monster Cable International, Ltd., in Bermuda, listed on these patents, is an IP holding company and that Monster Cable's principal US entity pays licensing fees to the Bermuda corporation in order to shift income out of the United States and thereby avoid paying United States federal income tax on those portions of its income; my request for these licensing agreements is specifically intended to include any licensing agreements, including those with closely related or sham entities, within or without the Monster Cable "family," and without regard to whether those licensing agreements are sham transactions for tax shelter purposes only or whether they are bona fide arm's-length transactions.

  6. Re:From TFA by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Informative

    I don't think he necessarily wants to go to court. The reason he's warning them of both his experience and the near-total lack of any reasonable claim against him is so that they walk away and stop bothering him. I'm fairly certain they will do that. They're not interested in a fight, only in making competitors cower and pay them money. It's rather classic bully behavior, but all bullies, big or small, will tend to stay away from anything that looks even remotely like an even match, or worse, one where they're bound to lose.

    What will piss them off, of course, is that the letter has been made public. But that's his perogative.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  7. Re:Uhm.... by Detritus · · Score: 4, Informative

    Any patents held by RCA would have expired many decades ago. They invented the connector in the 1930s.

    --
    Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
  8. Re:I'll be sure to .. by ivan256 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Their prices on long lengths of HDMI cables are actually downright reasonable. $38 for 24 gague, 50-feet in your choice of color and connector? That's better than Monoprice...

  9. Good cheap cables... by xTK-421x · · Score: 4, Informative

    Just in case anyone doesn't know of them, Monoprice has been my cabling place for years. Good prices, reasonable shipping.

    --
    "TK-421, why aren't you at your post?"
  10. Re:From TFA by lurker4hire · · Score: 2, Informative
    actually scratch that, this line from the original letter kinda negates that theory:

    "If I do not hear from you within the next fourteen days, or if I do hear from you but do not receive all of the information requested above, I will assume that you have abandoned these claims and closed your file."
  11. Re:The word "owned" comes to mind by PingXao · · Score: 2, Informative

    That's completely legal. Unethical and unpatriotic, yes, but not illegal. In fact, since Bush took office those kinds of arrangements have actually been sanctioned and encouraged by the government.

  12. Re:Quality matters for some high-speed cables. by Lumpy · · Score: 3, Informative

    Actually high end cables dont have gold but nickel.

    Gold plated ends are a sham, the gold wears through so fast (because it's barely plated on to begin with) it's not funny and the brass underneath it looks like gold so you dont know. The real high end stuff are solid nickel connections.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  13. Re:The word "owned" comes to mind by vwjeff · · Score: 5, Informative

    "I assume that Monster Cable International, Ltd., in Bermuda, listed on these patents, is an IP holding company and that Monster Cable's principal US entity pays licensing fees to the Bermuda corporation in order to shift income out of the United States and thereby avoid paying United States federal income tax on those portions of its income;..."

    Wonderful. Monster Cable hates America!!!!

  14. Re:The word "owned" comes to mind by jedidiah · · Score: 5, Informative

    When considering Tax issues, just keep in mind this little nugget of trivia...

    Tax law is the only area of the law where a lawyer is expected to obtain
    a speciality post doctorate degree (that is another advanced degree above
    and beyond the usual JD) just so that you can be considered qualified to
    START practicing in it.

    --
    A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  15. Re:The whole letter by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 2, Informative


    "You are in possession of at least seven orifices. Your website demonstrates fifteen cables, one of which you may discard. If so, the other fourteen are still under the terms of your retributuion. You will now insert those cables into the orifices in the 1-1-1-1-3-1-7 configuration."

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  16. Re:The word "owned" comes to mind by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 2, Informative
    Not necessarily. I license some of my patents, and the standard license includes full rights for the licensee to begin litigation over violations of the license. In other words, as part of their license they receive rights to also prosecute my patent for me. And yes, this is legal - the licensee has a financial interest in maintaining my patents and protecting the market.

    I'm sure Monster would do the same thing - they license the tech from their Burmuda entity, and also have full rights to pursue patent infringement on behalf of their licensor.

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  17. Monster, Blue Jean - what's the difference? by kindbud · · Score: 1, Informative

    High end cables are for e-peen. There is actually no measurable sonic difference between the output of speakers and systems connected with Monster or Blue Jean cables, and garden-variety cables from Radio Shack or any other non-premium cable vendor. In short, premium cables of any brand are basically ripoffs. Buyers pay a large premium solely to feel better about their expensive home theater system. You spent $10,000 on the electronics, a $5 cable seems - unworthy. And yet, every double-blind study and every sonic measurement ever done on this question has shown that not only is there no measurable difference in the final signal, but persons who claim to be able to hear the difference are always shown to be under the influence of wishful thinking. They are no better at fingering the premium cable than a random guesser.

    http://www.joyoftech.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/1082.html

    --
    Edith Keeler Must Die
  18. Re:The word "owned" comes to mind by Achromatic1978 · · Score: 5, Informative
    You missed his point - indeed, it took me a while to realize. There is nothing wrong with it, it is legal if it meets the definition of a bona fide arms-length setup.

    But, but it wasn't Monster Cable International, Ltd, that issued him with the letter and claim. It was Monster in the US, so keen to litigate that they did something they had no onus to do ("on behalf of") - they completely forgot that their corporate shell game had given the patents to a company in Bermuda, and that they had no right to claim patent infringement when they weren't the patent owners.

    More clear now?

    "That, that's not ours! We don't have to pay tax on it! Oh, wait, you're using this thing of ... uh ... not ours ... and we ... uh ... they ... can't have that!"

  19. Re:Wow by pimpimpim · · Score: 2, Informative

    Consider legal insurance. I pay about 6 euros per month for it, and with that I can access a hotline which gives immediate access to one of the insurance's lawyers specialized in the covered area. They will first help you solve the matter the cheapest way, without going to court (e.g. by writing a letter or giving advice like the parent poster had). This already saves you a lot of time and money and stress. And if it would go to court, the insurance fee will pay itself back in no time.

    --
    molmod.com - computing tips from a molecular modeling
  20. FYI - it's Tartan Cable, NOT Blue Jeans... by studiorat_1967 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Although Kurt is the owner of Blue Jeans Cable, I need to remind some of you that Monster is coming after Tartan Cable (which is also owned by Kurt). Tartan cable is Kurt's economy line of cables... it's all "Made in China", it's inexpensive, and by all standards, just as good as any of the other stuff bought at Best Buy or Circuit City - just less money. Blue Jeans Cable sells what is known as broadcast quality cabling. Basically, it's the same stuff you'll find being used by professional broadcast engineers in television studios, radio stations, A/V post production houses, and the like. Yes, it's more expensive than the chinese stuff, but it is mostly Belden Cable and anyone who knows about this stuff will see the value. Yes, for the most part, a lot of what Blue Jeans sells may be considered "overkill" for your run of the mill home theater - that is why the Tartan line of products was introduced. But for those who want what the pros use, Blue Jeans will deliver and not suck your wallet dry in the process.