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Monster Cables Pushes Around the Wrong Small Company
Alien54 writes "Audioholics has a fun read regarding a recent legal dustup involving Monster Cables. The well-known (some might say notorious) cabling company sent a cease and desist letter to Blue Jeans Cable over a supposed patent violation. What the Monster folks couldn't have known was that Blue Jeans president Kurt Denke used to be a lawyer. His response is as humorous as it is thorough. ' Let me begin by stating, without equivocation, that I have no interest whatsoever in infringing upon any intellectual property belonging to Monster Cable. Indeed, the less my customers think my products resemble Monster's, in form or in function, the better ... If there is more than one such connector design in actual use by Monster Cable as to which appropriation of trade dress is alleged, of course, I will require this information for each and every such design. On the basis of what I have seen, both in the USPTO documents you have sent and the actual appearance of Monster Cable connectors which I have observed in use in commerce, it does not appear to me that Monster Cable is in a position to advance a nonfrivolous claim for infringement of these marks.'"
I refer my learnèd friend to the case of Arkell v Pressdram.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Didn't somebody do a "golden ear" A-B test that determined that Monster speaker cable was no better than an extension cord with the connectors cut off?
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I love what he's doing but I said "damn, damn, damn" when he went on and on about about his experiences as a lawyer. Something tells me that might be the difference between Monster pursuing and not pursuing this case. Had he not laid all his cards out on the table, he might have got the fight he was looking for, and showed Monster they can't bully everyone around. Part of me is afraid that won't happen now.
But either way, I'm glad he's sticking up for himself, and not just himself but making it public. Others will catch on, I hope, and be able to use similar arguments and techniques to evaluate settling versus taking a stand.
I will begin by addressing your trademark/trade dress claim. You have referred to two trademark registrations, and have attached some printouts from the USPTO system but the depiction of the marks on the drawings provided is small and indistinct, making it difficult to determine exactly what the alleged resemblance is, and I need further information from you. This made me laugh. Monster Cable wants to initiate a trademark suit and can't send a legible image of the trademark? Sounds like something SCO would do...
Tomato wedge sperm darts that are Republican.
When digg first came out, I thought it an incredible improvement on /. as far as getting timely stories, if they would only get nested comments. But then the fanboys hit, duplications made /. look as staid and conservative as the New York Times, and I gave up on digg. Far too much noise for far too little signal.
/. has improved immensely. No doubt the competition helped, but I care not where the incentive came from, only that /. gets better and better.
And since then,
Infuriate left and right
I purchased some Monster Cables for my home theater. Now the damn connectors are coming off my speaker wires. I took them apart to find out that connectors are held on by a shoddy crimp job. For what they cost they could at least solder them. The rubber shielding is even starting to deteriorate. Not worth the money.
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
My favorite part is where he obliquely mentions that if they do take him to court and try to bleed him dry he'll kindly foward along their sham company tax shelter methods to the IRS that they use to avoid paying income tax on their Intellectual Property. That's gotta scare the hell out of most companies.
FanFictionRecs.net
But it's really good to read!
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
Well I think we haven't heard the last of this, IANAL but I'm pretty sure Monster is obligated to respond to his VERY specific requests. Either by admitting that their initial claim was complete horseshit or coughing up the requested documents and proceeding through with the next steps required to continue the initial threatened lawsuit.
If Monster doesn't, again IANAL, but doesn't Denke (the CEO of the small company) have a claim against monster for threatening frivolous litigation? Maybe even for anti-competitive behaviour considering that Monster (the 362KG gorilla) is trying to threaten a small competitor out of business?
l4h
My company has received warnings letters about possible patent infringements on our part. As manager of R&D, I've helped respond to them.
The main thing to keep in mind is that such patent infringement claims are mostly bluff. Sending a letter to a company claiming patent infringement is a relatively cheap thing to do, and might result in a competitor discontinuing a product or paying a license fee. But responding to such a letter in a coherent, technically competent, and determined manner is often enough for the patent holder to back off. They don't want a legal battle any more than you do.
Indeed, if you can make a case for prior art then the patent holders will really want to avoid a fight, for such a battle might invalidate their patent.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. indymedia
And also these coat hangers only made a 2m long connection. They don't have any shielding so if you run them over long distances you will get interference. While 2m is more than long enough for a simple home stereo, some people need longer cables. For example at my parent's house, my dad has his sound system set up in the living run but has cables running through the ceiling to the patio and to the kitchen so he can listen to music while he cooks. A 50ft unshielded cable would sound awful and staticy. I still think monster cables are a massive rip off but, assuming that the forum post is legit, comparing the cables to a wire hanger at that short of a length isn't really fair and its not surprising they had similar sound.
I think part of his point is that Monster doesn't hold the patents they are suing under (they have no standing) they're held by the offshore company which would need to do the suing itself - by doing business in the US in that manner that would leave it open to the US tax system
Monster provided him with enough information (i.e., a reference to a patent, a reference to a trademark, and a reference to one of his products) for him to determine if he is in fact violating their rights. He responds by asking for a bunch of things they have no need and/or no ability to provide him at this stage (e.g., a list of their own products made that use a design patent's features, an exact legal description of what exact parts of his product infringe, etc.)
Many comments have heralded him as a hero for calling out some inadequacy in the Monster letter, but in reality, the information he has is enough for a skilled lawyer to determine if he is likely to be infringing any rights that Monster has. All of the design information about his cables and logos should be known to him or other people in his company, and all of the patent information and trademark information (including the correspondences he requested) is available for him and all of the public to view in high quality. Before discovery has taken place, he is in a much better position to make an argument that his products don't infringe than Monster is in to make an argument that his products do infringe because he knows more about his own products than they do and all of Monster's legal claims are rooted in patents/trademarks that are publicly available. The fact that he doesn't know how to find the public information indicates that being whatever type of lawyer he once was does not amount to sufficient qualifications to defend himself against this potential lawsuit.
He has not provided any legally sufficient grounds to rebut anything Monster said. He will probably antagonize them by requesting ridiculous things from their already busy employees when he should be getting those things himself. He will probably give them added confidence by responding in a way that shows both his ignorance of the subject matter and his overconfidence/willingness to fight back without proper legal council. I expect this not to be pretty for him in the future and hope others talk to a skilled IP lawyer before trying something like this.
I really wish I knew about this crap a few years ago when I bought my car stereo. I'm starting to have a feeling the shop had normal wiring that would have sounded identical for a tenth of the price. I spent $100 and about a month with the shop trying to fix a problem. They even sent my amp in to the manufacturer to check it out. The sent it back as "fixed" with no other info and charged me $100. Problem still occurred. So I get fed up after a while and check everything I can think of, every connection and wire. Low and behold, the Monster cable was the issue with a faulty cap that would cut out the signal if it was pushed in all the way. What a joke...
The 5 seconds of silence on the other end of the line before the "Uuuh, I think I need to talk to my supervisor" was classic. Took them only a few more minutes before all those horrible problems with my mortgage just vanished.
Since then I've been a lot more accepting of lawyers- calling down the legal napalm on those assholes was one of the most fun things I've ever done.
"Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
I loved it. I've already framed it! Blue Jeans Cable is who I am going to do business with from now on!
Monster continues to charge up towards $100
Actually they aren't the biggest thieves, how about $5900 for 1m of low-bandwidth data cable? It puzzles me somewhat that no one has sued the so called high-end audio cable industry for fraud and false advertising.
I've bought cables from them before, they always struck me as the perfect antidote to the snake oil industry. This only increases my respect for an already respectable company.
I loved every word Mr. Denke wrote...freakin' brilliant. Kudos to him for fighting back.
Two things. I've had some high-powered lawyers across the table from me on 3 occasions and so far, I'm 3-0. There IS an assumption these big firms make along the lines of threaten and terrify people until they give it up. Sadly, that works pretty well...until someone like Mr. Denke comes along and says "wait just a damn minute!"
In my most "fun" case, I leased a new Jeep Cherokee for business use in 1984. I had it for exactly 35 days, several of which the Jeep spent in the dealer's service department. The thing was a TOTAL lemon. The first time I tapped the horn, the entire button, retaining ring, and spring flew off. The first cassette I popped into the "premium" audio system was eaten so badly the unit broke. Rear window defroster...no electrical connection. And so on. On day 35, I picked the Jeep for the 4th or 5th time...in a month...and discovered they hadn't fixed the latest problem, just ordered parts, and I was to "call every few days to see if the parts have arrived". I walked into the Leasing Manager's office, handed him the keys, notified him I was surrendering the vehicle under the terms and conditions of the lease in the Section for Early Lease Termination. I agreed to pay $900 to get out of the lease as the agreement stated a 6% charge on a 1st year termination. OK, $15,000 Jeep....that's $900. I walked out, got a cab, and bought a Nissan truck the next day.
A few weeks later, I get served. The leasing company WHOLESALED a new Jeep that had 400 miles of driving on it for $9500 and presented me with the difference...about $6000. And placed an entry with the credit bureaus that I had "defaulted" on a loan. I countersued the dealership, their employee, and the leasing company. We went to deposition...myself and my small-town lawyer...and sat down with about 15 people from the other side. Other than myself and the lady typing, it was all lawyers. The lead guy, "Rudy", did everything but punch me. I smiled, we presented our evidence, and left. In the hall, the dealership lawyers offered to pay the leasing company themselves if I would drop the countersuit against them. In the end, I paid them nothing. They even paid MY attorney. I still smile every day or so about that one.
2nd thing: Monster cables are NOT very good. I have an extensive background in electronics and have made thousands of cables of every description. I also play bass in a working band and run 3 basses during a big show. I tried a Monster Instrument Cable...at a premium price...and found it to be trash. A handmade "Radio Shack" special worked as well. I now use Planet Waves cutout cables and have never had a problem. In the studio, I'm going straight to the board and listening to the mix with Sennheiser phones and the PW cables sound as good as anything I've made or used. And before the "audiophiles" jump in with the "warm" and "bright" crap, MY former life was as an engineer for a major A/V firm that does work from coast-to-coast. Wire is wire. 12 gauge copper wire in bulk from the hardware store is just as good as the horrendously more expensive Monster Cable stuff. I only use the PW cables for my basses because of the cutout switch makes instrument changes on stage a QUIET snap and I'm too lazy to build my own....yet.
I am my own gestalt.
Indeed. I especially liked the transition from the beginning of the letter, where he responded with feigned interest and dozens of requests for more information, to the middle where he gave a detailed technical justification for his design, to the end where he became downright threatening to Monster, and rightly so. Here is a man who knows how to scare off a litigation troll.
Also, notice how he replied on the last day of the two week period Monster's lawyers gave him. This, combined with the number of requests for clarification he made, demonstrates that he will ensure any actual court proceedings drag on for as long as possible.
He sure as hell didn't blink.
Evidently, the key to understanding recursion is to begin by understanding recursion. The rest is easy.
[...]
Tax laws are riddled with loopholes and investment firms make lots of money figuring out how to work within the rules. Oh, sure. The key is that these rules are so complicated that attempts to jump through the loop holes frequently result in mistakes. The question Monster needs to ask themselves is if they feel lucky.
Basically, by questioning the "arm's length" relationship between the two entities in their licensing agreements, he's saying that they'd better make sure their financial house is in order before bringing him to court.
Then again, I run away screaming at the prospect of having to learn corporate tax law, so I may be too trusting of his oblique threat.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Why is a guy as smart as Denke working in such a bullshit marketing, sham-filled sector as high-end audio cables?
Care to provide any data to back up those claims? Where are you getting that 97% number from? I have lights flickering all the time in my house and yet not a single electronic device has failed. Some are 5+ years old.
EQUAL??? have you ever dissected a "monster" cable?
Most of the time the $1.25 stereo RCA cable is of better quality than the $27.99 cable from monster. I have found only 3 strands of copper inside a monster stereo RCA cable after I get past all the useless rubber, plastic braid, cloth, foil... their cables are absolute crap. I'll use china cheapies WAY before I'll touch a monster cable.
Hell Typicall when I have customers with problems with their HDMI it's the Monster cable. Swap it out with a cheapie or if they are the typically silly "videophile" I'll give them a "binary" brand that looks like it's expensive but passes our in house testing on the cable certifier. I have had Monster HDMI cables fail more often then they work on our cable certifier.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Bravo. Just fucking bravo.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Looks to me like these guys either stripped their website down to the barest of bare bones to survive what must be DDoS-level traffic, or they have a really crappy website.
I'm thinking that those graphics look like they probably fit into a more image-rich site. They've even done away with their style sheet.
If my guess is right, it shows that these guys are definitely on the ball. Well done! (if not, they really need to do something about that site!)
This was directly after I had to return some 30' HDMI cables I got from monoprice for not working at 1080p from my xbox360. This put me in a crunch to get new ones since the drywall was about to go in.
I found Blue Jeans Cable referenced on AVS Forum (you will can weeks digging through A/V topics there) and saw their location was just up the street from where I work. They said I could pick it up in person and waived the shipping charges within a day!
The cables are of excellent quality regardless of the price - which happens to be very affordable. I was most concerned about the HDMI cables at that length, but their website said it should work - and they did with flying colors, so to speak. I got their top of the line for the 1080p and the cheaper Tartan for DirecTV stuff (top res is 1080i), but it turns out I had no issue with their Tartan cable at 1080p either.
I was impressed with their operation.
Sorry for sounding like a marketing cheerleader, but I'm pulling for them, especially after the entertaining read. These are good guys, selling great product at excellent prices. They have earned my future business and do not deserve to be on the litigation receiving end of unethical competitors.
This comment does not necessarily represent the views and opinions of the author.
Question to anyone familiar with legal practicality: How hard would it be for us bored Slashdotters to watch Monster Cable's litigation team and just forward the letter to anyone they threaten? Surely Legal actions are a matter of public record? Or do the settlements typically occur out of the public space?
Furthermore, in light of the defences here, can't prior targets of Monster Cable who have settled claim that they settled under duress? After all, threatening with litigation is threatening.
I hate printers.
Did anyone go to blue jeans cable website? I don't care if they charge less for an HDMI however 30 dollars is still WAY to much for a 6ft cable in my opinion. I got my 6ft hdmi cables on amazon for $3 and they kick ass. Screw Blue Jeans Cable, they're still trying to rip you off, just not as much.
When I was installing sat systems, back in the dawn of HD content, four times I was handed a shiny box of Monster brand component cables by a grinning customer. "use these" they all said. Three times, those cables failed to work. Three times out of four I used the cheap no-name included cables (which always worked, by the way... 0 failures out of perhaps 100.)and handed the customer their open box of monster cables and said "get a refund" From that experience alone I would not use a Monster product unless it was handed to me free.
That's bravo-sierra, I'm afraid.
I run speaker connections through unshielded Cat5e cabling, to the patch panel, back out again to the remote speakers, which involved four RJ-45 connections (one at the amp, two at the patch panel, one at the remote speaker set). It goes through at least 50 feet of UTP. I quite honestly can't tell the difference between the speakers connected directly and via the Cat5. I use two pairs per speaker.
Perhaps if you live in an electrically noisy place with lots of motors you'd get noise, but you wouldn't notice it for the sound of all the motors.
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
The letter's point is that offshore tax shelters are indeed legal. If the offshore company is correctly run as a seperate entity perfoming proper arms-length transactions with the parent.
However. He then shows that they've cocked up once, by forgetting to send the patent infringement claim from the Bermuda company that actually owns those patents. Do they really feel the rest of their ducks are correctly aligned, should the IRS come knocking?
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
I've actually had some stainless/chromed cable ends (can't say for sure. Probably just shiny stainless) corrode over time. One headphone plug in particular takes on a thin dark grey coating every couple years of regular use.
So I take a rag with a little metal polish on it, wipe it off, then clean off the polish. Good as new. I've never had a static connection like one on an amp or piece of home theatre equipment corrode on me.
So you're absolutely right, and in my experience gold is functional but not useful. My favorite cable sham is people selling high-grade shielded, gold-plated connector cables for a home theatre digital signal. Short of being so bad it drops bits, there would literally be no difference in high and low grade - there's really no wiggle room for looking a little better or worse.