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Chinese Blogs, Netizens React To the Tibet Issue
Bibek Paudel writes "Over the past few weeks Chinese bloggers and people on Internet forums have been reacting to events in Tibet and the protests disrupting the torch relay. The BBC and Global Voices have interesting insights on the recent happenings on the Net. A western commentator says, 'Lots of Chinese people now view the Western media, human rights groups, and Western leaders' criticisms of their country as part of the Racist Western Conspiracy to Stop China From Being Successful.' One of the most vocal appeals by the Chinese blogs, forums, and text-messages has been to boycott French goods in response to the protests that accompanied the torch relay in Paris. One response post reads, 'Who is abusing human rights? Who is bringing violence to this world?' There also are two versions of music video of the song Don't Be Too CNN, and its lyric has assumed the status of a cult catch-phrase. Sina.com has a popular page: 'Don't be too CNN, fire to the Western media.' Many analysts believe that the protests over Tibet have only served to strengthen Chinese nationalism rather than evoke sympathy for the Tibetan cause. Sina.com has a petition against the Western media which has reportedly accumulated millions of signatures. There is also Mutant Palm, a blog by an expatriate in China who has been watching and commenting on the fallout from Tibet and torch protests online."
I'd like to say nationalism is the new evil, but, unfortunately it's been around for as long as there has been nations.
More Twoson than Cupertino
please never use the word "netizens" ever again, in any circumstance.
thank you,
the internet users who aren't douchebags
On one hand I don't get good coverage of the situation in Tibet because western reporters just do not go there. And on the other hand Chinese reporting is state run and thus essentially a state run propaganda outlet.
Having observed the Dali Lama's tours and speeches for the last few year I find Chinese media assertion that The Dali Lama is running a terrorist network absurd, but their reporting to the contrary might be causing Tibetan supporters of the Dali Lama to become more extreme as the only media source available to them tell them that the Dali Lama is urging armed uprising.
In many ways the Chinese government is seeding the dissent which will give them an excuse for violent oppression of the Tibetan people. I am not sure whether this is evidence of a brilliantly executed evil agenda or standard government incompetence.
different leaders at different times...
china helping out north korea was one communist nation helping out another, after UN forced had chased north korean into chinese territory iirc...
on the other hand, the leadership of china during ww2 ended up fleeing to what is now taiwan after the communist uprising.
and btw, china do not recognice taiwan as a nation. they insist that its chinese territory. but they do not invade as that would risk all out war with usa, who helped set up taiwan...
got to love that stuff. in us eyes, anything other then communist leadership was good. it could be just as dictatorial or worse then the communists, as long as they where not communists...
comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
you have no idea how true this is.
I am currently teaching ESL in Korea.
there are a lot of Chinese people working in Korea, and since they speak limited English, and I am here with a friend who speaks Chinese, and we are foreigners in a strange land, we spend a lot of time together, talking.
One day, Tienanmen square came up, and they wondered why Westerners always made a big deal about that particular spot.
"it was just a bunch of bad students" one said to me. she knew something happened there one, but no specifics.
that was all they knew.
Tienanmen was just "A bunch of bad students"
I went online, showed them that famous footage.
there was shock, outrage, and disbelief.
2 of them now refuse to return to China.
makes you wonder what our governments are hiding from us.
My Chinese friends are always making little jabs at me here and there, because British Colonialism was so awful, and wrong. And being white makes me inherently guilty of everything wrong with the world. (despite the fact that i am not British)
They all agree that Tibet is a part of China
I told them all "fine, i will agree to that, Tibet is as much a part of China as India is a part of Britian."
-I only code in BASIC.-
Actually, the Japanese actually helped the Communists in China. At a time when the communists were about to be crushed by the national government, the Japanese invaded and distracted the national army long enough to let the communists get strong.
It's a pretty dramatic story, actually. The nationals had chased the communists all the way from southern China up to the north, spent months doing so in what is known as Mao's Long March, and were finally about to crush the rebellion. The nationals were camped at the ancient hot springs outside Xi'an (these springs have been in use by kings in China for 1,500 years at least). The Japanese had invaded, but the leader still wanted to crush the Communists before facing the Japanese. At that critical moment, some of the nationalist troops kidnapped the nationalist leader and forced him to give up chasing the Communists. This event is memorialized in Communist tradition as 'the Xian incident.'
Qxe4
At which point in the war (prior to the Chinese intervention) did the UN violate Chinese territory?
on the other hand, the leadership of china during ww2 ended up fleeing to what is now taiwan after the communist uprising.If you mean the Nationalists/Kuomintang fled to Taiwan then you are accurate. But they weren't the only 'leadership' of China during WW2. The Communists contributed more to the defeat of the Japanese than the Nationalists did. The Communist leadership was also engaged by the Western Powers during this period -- Stillwell in particular spoke highly about the Communists and their resistance towards the Japanese. So it's a bit of a mistake to say the 'leadership' of China during WW2 fled to Taiwan -- part of the leadership did. The part that actually resisted the Japanese stayed behind.
got to love that stuff. in us eyes, anything other then communist leadership was good. it could be just as dictatorial or worse then the communists, as long as they where not communists...Well, if you consider the context of the times and the Soviet actions in Europe/violation of their wartime agreements (Potsdam and Yalta) then it really isn't that hard to understand why we were afraid of Communism. In retrospect our actions (particularly in Latin-America) weren't justifiable but it's too easy to condemn them with the full benefit of historical hindsight.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
I am Chinese and I received this poem circulating in the Chinese circle which I think captures the sentiment of ordinary Chinese rather well .
A LETTER FROM AN ORDINARY CHINESE
When we were seen as "Sick Men from East Asia", we were called The Peril.
When we strived to get stronger, we are called The Threat.
When we closed our doors to the world, you forced them open with drugs and guns.
When we finally embraced Free Trade, you blame us for taking away your jobs.
When we were falling apart, you marched in your troops and robbed us blind.
When we put the broken pieces back together again, "Free tÂbet" you screamed, it was an invasion!
So, we tried Communism, you hated us for being Communists.
Then we learned from Capitalism, you hated us for being Capitalists.
When we had a billion people, you said "The planet is starving."
So we tried to limit our population, you said it was Human Rights Abuse.
When we were poor, you think we are dogs.
When we loan you cash, you blame us for your debts.
When we build our industries, you blame us for global warming.
When we sell you goods you can afford, you blame us for dumping inferior products.
When we buy oil, you called that exploitation and assisting genocide.
When you fight for oil, you called that Liberation of Its People.
When we were lost in chaos and rampage, you wanted Rules of Law for us.
When we uphold our law and order against violence, you called that Violating Human Rights.
When we were silent, you said we have No Free Speech.
When we are NOW silent no more, you say we are merely "Brainwashed".
"Why do you hate us so much?" We asked.
"No" You answered, "We don't hate you."
Truth is we really don't hate you either, but do you understand us?
"Of course we do" You said, "We have BBC, CNN and AFPs."
So we ask you now "What do you really know and want from us?"
And "Why do you find it SO hard to accept us?"
There's no individual right to keep and bear arms in China like there is in the west.
What do you mean by "west"? Is this U.S. American arrogance or ignorance? I am from Western Europe. Last time I checked we were part of the "West." European countries tend to have much tighter gun laws than the United States. When I was in graduate school in physics in the U.S. I had friends from all over the world, including Europe and all of them agreed with me on thinking that Americans are crazy to tolerate their lax gun ownership laws. In fact all agreed that guns do not belong in the hands of civilians with the possible exception of hunting rifles. So be careful when you say "we", you Americans do not automatically speak for all Westerners. (A good example would have been the initiation of the Iraq invasion.) Of course I agree on your other point about the extent of censorship in the West vs. China even though I had my doubts about the U.S. in this area just prior to the Iraq invasion.
When 1person suffers from a delusion,it is called insanity.When many people suffer from a delusion,it is called religion
My God, Slashdot groupthink at its very best.
:/
I was born in China but I grew up overseas. I have tons of relatives who live all over the world, from Paris to New York. They have access to all the information in the world.
But let me tell you this: Not a single person in my family supports Tibetan independence. Everyone supports the Olympics 100%.
My grandparents were Party members so we are relatively well off. Most of my aunts and uncles had university education and my cousins are studying overseas. These are people who regularly criticize the government in daily conversations over things like corruption and bureaucratic inefficiencies, because they are well-informed and aware of what is happening.
Westerners just can't grapple with the reality that the Chinese government is still generally popular and it's people, though overly addicted to nationalism and cultural pride, are NOT ignorant slaves that your corporate media and your condescending feel-good activists like you to believe.
I personally am very much against the operating principals of the Chinese government, as are my parents. But I think this whole Olympic protest business is just bullshit. It will only strengthen ugly nationalism and serve as an ego trip for those hippie protesters.
To fucking hell with karma.
We have lots of ignorant and stupid people here too. They also have access to lots of information. Some people here that are stupid and ignorant are otherwise well educated.
The Olympics are a waste of time. They have become too politicized and too many dedicate their whole lives and their families make sacrifices only to see governments like China's play it for all it is worth for propaganda.
I haven't watched them in years - even when they have been in the USA.
What's wrong with Tibetan independence? What's wrong with Taiwanese independence? China is way too nationalistic, expansionistic, and subversive for western investment. Opening trade with China, especially in anything high-technology has been a big mistake. They abuse western trust.
And you attitude is a window into that behavior.
None of which contradicts the point of the post, that the whole anti-French thing in the lead up to the Iraq war was because they dared to say that they thought the case for war was stupid.
You might not like the French, but they were still right about Iraq.
A few points from a Westerner who has lived in China.
1. Must supporting Tibet and the Olympics be mutually exclusive?
2. Talking to my Chinese friends (I have many), almost none have ever actually seen CNN. They have A. read www.anti-cnn.com or B. read or seen about it in Chinese media.
3. China is not the last bastion of independent thought, nor is the USA for that matter. Chinese people almost never seek out secondary sources of information, either because of lack of education (cannot read English, etc), Western media is blocked (i've lived there, don't tell me it is not true, though it is accessible if you know where to look), or lack the desire, or discipline, to seek out other perspectives.
When I lived in Beijing from 2004-2006, I got the general feeling that Chinese were enamored with Tibet and thought they were doing no wrong when they brought development to Tibet. So naturally, Chinese think they are in the right. By human nature, people will believe what they want to believe, and furthermore, people develop strong convictions based on little or no information.
Another thing is that the Chinese have demonized the Dalai Lama, which is somewhat absurd. They cannot in any demonstrable way connect him to the violence. Furthermore, the Dalai Lama is a wily politician who has forged relationships with powerful people in the West, whereas the Chinese have little guanxi outside their own nation, save countries they are pouring money into.
Like I tell my Chinese friends, if I want to know what bad things Taiwan has done this week, I'll read Xin Hua or People's Daily. They are at least as crappy as CNN, though they are a different kind of poison than CNN.
One lesson China should be taking from this, and I have seen no evidence of this so far, is that they really need to do a better job of Public Relations. Frequently my Chinese friends, try to make the argument that Bush would not let Texas separate from the USA (I am from Texas), just as China would not let Tibet separate. To which I reply, Texas was already an independent nation, and if you really want a compelling argument, read about the American Civil War on Wikipedia (har har).
I have a fair number of friends from Taiwan as well, and I have guaged their reaction to be a combination of A. Apathy, because Taiwan has been going through this sort of nonsense for a long time, and they are sick of it B. Not agreeing with violence from either party C. Some empathy for the Tibetans, because the Olympics presents them with a rare opportunity to gain media attention.
So, what to take from all this. I'm not quite certain, because I do not have all the information. I am sympathetic to both sides. Living in China was the happiest part of my life.
My feeling is, if China wants to be a great nation, they need to act like a great nation, not whine on anti-cnn online forums.
A witty saying proves you are wittier than the next guy.