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Soyuz Ballistic Re-entry 300 Miles Off Course
call-me-kenneth writes "Soyuz TMA-11, carrying a crew of three returning from the ISS, unexpectedly followed a high-G ballistic re-entry trajectory and ended up landing 300 miles off-course. The crew, including Commander Peggy Whitson and cosmonaut Yuri Malenchenko, are reportedly in good health. Soyuz capsules have previously saved the lives of the crew even after severe malfunctions that might have led to the loss of a less robust vehicle."
[insert "in soviet russia" joke here]
In the article they state that the vehicle returned in "a plunge with an uncontrollable, steep trajectory." So basically it came down without guidance, maybe the steering systems malfunctioned. The "ballistic trajectory" seems to be an euphemism for coming down like a rock.
"wahts woring iwth my tyoping?"
read "Made in America"
Perhaps the calculations were done by the same person who worked out the re-entry trajectory?
There is an interesting article, written by a Canadian, in which he discusses the manual descent training that he received as part of cosmonaut training. Apparently, one of the back up computer systems is your brain itself (i.e. full manual control or renentry with analog controls and instruments). Queue the Soviet Russia jokes now...In Soviet Russia the re-entry computer is YOU!
From TA: "Under nominal end-of-mission situations, an automatic re-entry system will return the Soyuz vehicle and crew from space safely back to the ground. However, the crew must be familiar with the several backup modes that exist in instances when the automatic system fails. One of the backup re-entry modes is the crew themselves! For certain hardware and software malfunctions, the crew will be required to manually fly the Soyuz back to Earth through the atmosphere."
Soyuz misses YOU!
The grass is always greener on the other side of the light cone.
They didn't come back with any beautiful, belly-buttonless genies, did they?
Hey give them some credit they hit the right planet.
300 miles which side? Am I close enough? Let me run. With love from Russia!
This is one of the reasons that material/websites are listed as inaccurate sources of data. Rounding is good when you are talking about 1.300056000 billion dollars as 1.3billion. But in the case of simple math that the reader can do on their own rather quickly, it is imprudent to do any rounding.
A professional news reporter would know that there have been trouble with the US space program regarding conversions to and from metric units. Therefore it is professionally prudent to make sure you are not lumped in with the same idiots who made those mistakes.
It's not that hard, really. Such things are the stuff of journalism classes from the 50's or sooner. How not to look like an idiot when reporting the news!
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The fact that they survived the experience is amazing. Say what you want about Soviet technology, this was a very, very neat trick.
It's nice to know it takes a mishap to make news.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
When it comes to Soviet technology only one thing needs to be pointed out: This brings the re-entry failure rate of the current mark of Soyuz to 20% and trending upwards. (This report on Soyuz landing safety with the older marks is sobering reading.)
...In Soviet Russia, questionable navigation systems report on *you*!
Paleotechnologist and connoisseur of pretty shiny things.
Mr Perminov said the craft followed the back-up landing plan, a so-called "ballistic re-entry" - a plunge with an uncontrollable, steep trajectory
He said the crew missed the target because they changed their landing plan at the last minute without telling mission control.
Astronauts don't just don't go changing re-entry profiles willy-nilly. If they did it, there was a reason they needed to.
Remember the collision between the Progress supply ship and Mir during the manual docking? The first thing the Soviets did was blame it on the Russian cosmonaut. It turned out the whole operation was poorly planned, rehearsed and was an accident waiting to happen.
There's a lot more to this story than we've heard yet.
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Miss, are you telling us absolutely everything?!
Not exactly. We're also out of coffee.
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Soyuze descent trajectories are planned so that a safe ballistic option is always available, no matter what happens to the control system. But excuse me, isn't this the THIRD ballistic re-entry of the TMA series?
TMA-1 : ballistic
TMA-10 : ballistic
TMA-11 : ballistic
If you ask me, I think there's going to be a few more people going ballistic over this... I don't think the previous Soyuz generations had this many ballistic returns.
"Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down?
That's not my department," says Wernher von Braun.
What?
Wow. Stories like this remind me of the huge BALLS it takes to strap yourself onto a rocket and fly straight into orbit, and then come back down again. We like to think that technology has progressed so far that things like space travel are safe, and to a large extent it is. But with the shear number of things that can go wrong and the calculations that have to be *just so* in order to get back safely, I am seriously humbled to remember that astronauts are still explorers, and, frankly, still Heroes to mankind. Let's not forget it.
.. the difference is 8-10G vs. normal 2-3G on re-entry. What a ride.
If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
I hope that someone with points mods your comment funny... nearly brought tears to my eyes.
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I too am humbled. It really does take cohones to do all that.
Sooo, what does it tell you when two of the astronauts that came down at 10Gs and one of the ones who has the longest time in space than any other human being, do not, in fact, have cohones...
Well, hell, it wouldn't be /. if someone didn't find a way to get an anti-MS comment in on every story. Congrats. But you don't get extra points until you can make it anti-Bush and anti-Christian and then mention Cuba and the holy prophet RMS, holiness is his name, at the same time. Oh, and you also need to remember to correct someone's grammar, and call dupe on Taco, while exhorting others to RTFA and then taking the poster to task for not linking to the printable version or find a version that is not copyrighted.
Did I forget something?
Oh, yeah, you need to mention how your grandmother can install and configure Ubuntu in 3 mouse clicks.
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Alan Shepard hit over 11g during re-entry, and he didn't pass out and could still hit switches. The early astronauts training- had them routinely hitting 10g or more and they didn't pass out.
There's a difference between the eyes-down load on a fighter pilot sitting in an ejection seat (even the semi-reclining versions, which aren't really very reclined) and the eyes-in loading on a astronaut laying on their back. The main difference is that the person on their back isn't having their blood trying to fill their boots when the Gs strike like the person sitting in a chair.
The two don't really compare. I'd advise you to do a little research before trying to make that case.
With the Dollar getting so low (I won't go into the politics of it) even Walmart is getting expensive.
I think what is happening is goods from China are price correcting. If you think Wal-mart is getting expensive, maybe you should try shopping there on the pay scale of the people who make the clothes you are buying. For many years now the Yuan has been kept artificially low, giving China a strong advantage in international trading. They kept their currency values (read labor cost) low by buying up US debt, which kept the dollar high, Japan may have done the same thing. In effect, Asia has been subsidizing US consumerism for decades. So the western world moved a huge amount of their manufacturing to China. In 2005 China stopped their policy of keeping the Yuan fixed at 8.28 yuan to the dollar, now it's up to 7 yuan to the dollar so everything made in China costs 18% more. China still maintains some trade advantage as they now have a much better manufacturing infrastructure and labor pool, but the now rising yuan is going to slingshot the standard of living in China up to that of the western world in short order. That means that "Made in China" is soon going to cost just as much as "Made in the USA". Which really just means that the people making it are getting paid a fair living wage, and the item actually costs what it is worth.
We are all just people.
Or the manufacturing industry will move to the next third world country...
Space Shuttle was a program that strapped humans to an explosion and tried to stab through the sky with fire and math
... get off of my lawn!!!
Have gnu, will travel.
Good analysis. Whether Chinese products will cost as much as US products in the long term will depend upon political factors: tariffs and tax burdens and restrictions on production.
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That's exactly what's happening, as reported by Chinese and HK media. The clothing factories in southern China are closing in large number and relocated to Vietnam.
I'm sure if that relocations are completed, we will see all criticism of Vietnamese human rights and labor abuses rather than that of Chinese, in our mainstream media.
You can't fight with money!
...nothing beats the KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) approach.
I find it interesting that Russia makes (made) both the Soyuz and the AK-47, which have reputations for robustness and ability to function in adverse conditions, while America makes the M16 and the Space Shuttle, which have reputations for failure in less-than-ideal conditions.
Granted, I hear the latest versions of the M16 and its descendants are much better.
They kept their currency values (read labor cost) low by buying up US debt, which kept the dollar high, Japan may have done the same thing.
That sure was nice of them, though I'm not sure it's a good idea to trade actual stuff for little pieces of paper. Especially when the US government controls the value of that paper. Recently I've been wondering if the recent inflation of the dollar is nothing less than the theft of half of China's currency reserves.
I heard that Buick is exporting cars to China, who would have thought that would happen!
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When I eat Kimchee, methane gases build up within
me a few hours later. I can imagine the lateral
expulsion of these gases can alter the course of the
capsule significantly.
Fortunately, soyuz is unbreakable!
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
Chinese producers can respond to distorted exchange rates simply by raising the prices they charge foreigners though. After all, if an American Consumer is willing to spend 20 dollars worth of yuan to buy a toaster, there isn't anything that stops a Chinese exporter from charging that consumer 20 dollars worth of yuan. It doesn't matter whether 20 dollars turns out to be 140 yuan or 165.6 yuan, because the transaction is governed by supply and demand. It's well known that there is an immediate benefit to exports from a depreciating currency, however I believe it's also well known that the phenomenon is temporary, because prices adjust to take into account the new exchange rate. So for a while Asia (particularly China) was subsidizing the US consumer, it's been decades since China enacted its policy to peg the yuan (crawling peg now) to the dollar, and the subsidization you're talking about has long since ended. I've heard prominent economists come down on both sides of this issue (mine and yours) but it seems fair to say that you are likely to be at the very least over stating the level of the subsidy, because you're ignoring the ability of the Chinese producer to adjust to the dollar price of the yuan.
Relax I just want some peanuts.
Well, yes China has kept the yuan low and that is a factor,
but also the US Government has an significant annual deficit, and a large overall deficit.
But when we have a fiscal crisis, the Federal Reserve starts lending out hundreds of billions of dollars in short term loans to financial institutions.
So the question is, where does this money come from? Do they just print up some more and hand it out? Because if they do, that leads to inflation. But perhaps this is more complex than I understand it to be.
Then of course there is fuel. Oil hitting $115 a barrel (average $65 in 2007, and about $25 in 2002) This drives up the cost of everything being shipped/manufactured etc. I don't see how hitting $5-6 gallon or more within a year isn't a certainty if that price holds.
And then of course the US has started using crops for fuel, aggravating the cost of food further (as prices already will be rising due to transportation/harvesting costs).
I'm moded flamebait because I say the foreign soviet countries/russia manages to do some neat tricks with technology? Why is that? The make awesome space, plane, anti missile, rifles, ... cheap and with good reliability. How isn't that neat?
..
Whatever
From: "Making Globalization Work"[Ch. 9]:
...the United States, seemingly cannot live within its means, borrowing $2 billion a day from poorer countries.Some of these dollars...go to pay off their enormous debts....Others go to buy bonds...Most of the bonds are short-term US Treasury bills (usually referred to as 'T-Bills'), which in recent years have yielded as low as 1 percent interest. There is something peculiar about poor countries desperately in need of capital lending hundreds of billions of dollars to the world's richest country." He doesn't go into it, but it seems to me that capital investment at a substandard interest rate in US currency would be "artificially inflating" US currency, rather than "artificially devaluing" Chinese (or whoever's) currency. IANAE, so I don't know.
As an aside, somewhere in the same book he gives his opinion that individual buying power for China/India will rise, but fall for the US, and end up closer to the China/India end of things...
They kept their currency values (read labor cost) low by buying up US debt, which kept the dollar high, Japan may have done the same thing.
That sure was nice of them, though I'm not sure it's a good idea to trade actual stuff for little pieces of paper. Especially when the US government controls the value of that paper. Recently I've been wondering if the recent inflation of the dollar is nothing less than the theft of half of China's currency reserves.
Yes, it's quite peculiar. It looks like they have now seen the light, and taking more of an interest in useful things, e.g., shares in mining companies.
If the poor performance of the US continues for long, its government may lose the privilege of being able to cheaply borrow money in its own currency. Instead it would be forced like many other governments to borrow in a hard currency such as the Euro.
This is a good thing... After a while vietnam will move up... then africa and so on. Countries joining the 2nd world/1st world is a good thing.
How is it that nobody here has so far complained about Three Women in Space who could not even get The Directions Back To Planet Earth right?
Lost In Space, anyone?
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Yeah, they even managed to get buyers for both of them!
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It is not fancy. It is not stylish. It looks like a warthog and it handles worse. It's highly uncomfortable and anything but user friendly. But one thing it is: sturdy.
Remember the MIR? It outlasted its planned duration by, if I'm not too mistaken, by almost a decade. It wasn't meant to last that long, but it did. It was pretty much what the first paragraph said. It was noisy, ugly, smelled funny and anything but comfortable. But it was sturdy, and what broke down could be fixed with onboard means.
I wouldn't bet on that in a "western" space ship. After all, someone wants to sell you spare parts for it...
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
It's a bit odd that you mention a three-person crew "including Commander Peggy Whitson and cosmonaut Yuri Malenchenko", and leave out the more interesting member, So-yeon Yi, who happens to be Korea's first cosmonaut, and a woman at that. Actually, it looks worse than a bit odd.
another Tycho Magnetic Anomaly?
I'm watching a report on this issue by Hong Kong's ATV as I'm typing this. Another cause of the exodus of factories (probably >50% are owned by Hong Kong business people) is blamed on the new Chinese labor law enacted this year which closes many of the loopholes of the old one and causing labor cost to rise. On one hand, it is good for the Chinese laborers are getting more protection from the government; on the other hand, the factories just close down, move and fire the workers. (Contrary to popular belief here, Chinese labor laws are tougher than that of the U.S.; just that few private companies, owned by HK, Taiwan, and Japanese, obey.)
Every year, there are estimated 2 million new college graduates entering the job market in the Guangdong province. How many non-college-graduates are entering job markets across China? I can't estimate.
That's why if anyone live in China long enough would be getting sympathized on how hard their government's job is.
It also suggests that, long term, there may be hope of some of these jobs/industries coming back to the countries they migrated from. Assuming anyone in those countries would still want them...
Sooo--Just how does it feel to spend over 190 days in a weightless environment and then be subjected to 10 G's????