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Edward Lorenz, Father of Chaos Theory, Dies at 90

An anonymous reader writes "Professor Edward N. Lorenz, who discovered in 1961 that subtle changes in the initial conditions of a weather simulation program could cause very large differences in its results, died of cancer Wednesday at the age of 90. The contributions of the father of chaos theory, who coined the term 'the butterfly effect' and also discovered the Lorenz Attractor, are best summarized by the wording of the Kyoto Prize in 1991 which noted that his discovery of chaos theory 'profoundly influenced a wide range of basic sciences and brought about one of the most dramatic changes in mankind's view of nature since Sir Isaac Newton.'"

104 comments

  1. Died of cancer... but why? by DamienRBlack · · Score: 5, Funny

    Why aren't they reporting that his cancer was caused by a zebra sneezing in the UK last fall under a fig tree. It seems quite relevant.

    1. Re:Died of cancer... but why? by dreamchaser · · Score: 3, Informative

      You might get modded troll or flamebait by the people who didn't understand your subtle reference. It could have been a butterfly taking off in New Mexico though. We aren't quite sure.

      A great man whose contributions will be remembered for centuries to come has passed. I think I'm going to fire up a fractal generator and play with Lorenz Attractors now.

    2. Re:Died of cancer... but why? by Digestromath · · Score: 3, Funny
      I think the cancer angle is all wrong for a headline.

      The sensationalist news should report "Butterfly goes on rampage, slays notable mathematician. Police seek public's help in finding strange attractor."

      Or is it really just too soon for jokes? How do we as a community honour someone who has made such great contributions. Contributions no doubt to be misremembered by pop culture (thanks alot Hollywood).

      Perhaps he would be fondly remembered though an internet meme.

    3. Re:Died of cancer... but why? by QuantumG · · Score: 1

      was he that guy in Jurassic Park?

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    4. Re:Died of cancer... but why? by JustOK · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'm thinking that there probably shouldn't be a particular pattern to when the jokes are made.

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
    5. Re:Died of cancer... but why? by witherstaff · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As humor is often just a funny way of being serious, I don't think it's too soon for jokes.

      Perhaps we should all use one of the many chaos generators out there for a few minutes as a way to salute his work? What is the best chaos program out there nowadays - I haven't used one since fractint ages ago. Well I did install the electric sheep screen saver which is very nice eye candy, but I want to see some particles circling around a lorenz attractor.

    6. Re:Died of cancer... but why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      And it would be warranted. The 'butterfly effect' is a horribly misleading statement. Mathematical chaos applies to only certain deterministic systems, not real life. There is no evidence that the real world is a simulation or even if it was that it falls into the narrow range of non-linear dynamics problems that exhibit mathematical chaos. Lorenz's attempt at modeling the weather certainly exhibited mathematical chaos, but the model wasn't the weather itself.

    7. Re:Died of cancer... but why? by smallfries · · Score: 4, Funny

      Besides, decades of research have improved those models to the extent that we can accurately predict the weather anywhere up to 20mins in the future.

      --
      Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
    8. Re:Died of cancer... but why? by maxume · · Score: 1

      You mean the Zebra sneezes and it doesn't affect the gigawatt scale prevailing wind?!

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    9. Re:Died of cancer... but why? by ta+bu+shi+da+yu · · Score: 1

      But Agent Smith... you say that now but yesterday when Neo kicked your butt it was like "it's only a simulation, it's not like this is reality"...

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    10. Re:Died of cancer... but why? by smittyoneeach · · Score: 3, Funny

      You omit the fact that we've also made some strides in predicting what the past should have been.

      --
      Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
    11. Re:Died of cancer... but why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not as relevant as how upset people are by this... there's chaos in the streets I tell you!

    12. Re:Died of cancer... but why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mathematical chaos applies to only certain deterministic systems, not real life. Heisenberg's ghost would like to haunt you now.
    13. Re:Died of cancer... but why? by JustOK · · Score: 2, Funny

      I've been using Vista. That's been pretty chaotic.

      --
      rewriting history since 2109
    14. Re:Died of cancer... but why? by smallfries · · Score: 1

      Very true, I believe that Blair et al. have published a lot in this area.

      --
      Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
    15. Re:Died of cancer... but why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mathematical chaos applies to only certain deterministic systems, not real life. Heisenberg's ghost would like to haunt you now. Why? Quantum indeterminacy precludes mathematical chaos. Since real life is governed by quantum indeterminacy, real life can't have mathematical chaos.
    16. Re:Died of cancer... but why? by CastrTroy · · Score: 2, Funny
      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    17. Re:Died of cancer... but why? by dreamchaser · · Score: 1

      Except it was just a reference to a man and his work, not a discussion on the validity of chaos theory as applied to dynamic systems. While you are more or less correct you do not have to be pedantic about it nor imply that the original parent was trolling.

    18. Re:Died of cancer... but why? by Bromskloss · · Score: 1

      decades of research have improved those models to the extent that we can accurately predict the weather anywhere up to 20mins in the future.

      Yeah, through sample and hold.

      --
      Swedish plasma phys. PhD student; MSc EE; knows maths, programming, electronics; finance interest; seeks opportunities
    19. Re:Died of cancer... but why? by whit3 · · Score: 1

      There are many real physical systems where the
      'butterfly effect' is very evident, and the history
      of science includes prior art. Lagrange found in
      his orbital calculations of planets that the sensitivity of
      the solutions to errors in observation could be
      extreme, about 200 years ago. A century ago,
      the excessive sensitivity of matrices with large
      eigenvalues provided a good model of the problem.

      Today, we call it 'chaos theory', but Lorenz is just a recent
      worker in the field, not really the father...

    20. Re:Died of cancer... but why? by mbkennel · · Score: 1

      The 'butterfly effect' is a horribly misleading statement. Mathematical chaos applies to only certain deterministic systems, not real life. There is no evidence that the real world is a simulation or even if it was that it falls into the narrow range of non-linear dynamics problems that exhibit mathematical chaos. There is ample experimental evidence that chaos occurs all over physical reality.

      Lorenz's attempt at modeling the weather certainly exhibited mathematical chaos, but the model wasn't the weather itself. The model wasn't weather, obviously.
    21. Re:Died of cancer... but why? by Moderatbastard · · Score: 0

      Mathematical chaos applies to only certain deterministic systems, not real life.
      Bullcrap. There are numerous real world examples in biology (populations, heart rhythm) physics (double pedulum, leaky waterwheel), economics (stock markets) and chemistry (some reaction named after an unpronouncable Russian or two).

      Some might even mention the slashdot modding system, as evidenced by the fact that you got modded up which wouldn't occur in any sensible Newtonian system.
      --
      1/3 of jokes get modded OT. If you get the joke, mod 1 in 3 insightful/interesting/underrated to restore karma balance.
    22. Re:Died of cancer... but why? by Darby · · Score: 1

      Mathematical chaos applies to only certain deterministic systems, not real life. There is no evidence that the real world is a simulation or even if it was that it falls into the narrow range of non-linear dynamics problems that exhibit mathematical chaos.

      There is no evidence that the earth is a simulation, but there are experiments demonstrating that some aspects of reality do follow the model.

      Mitchell Feigenbaum's period doubling cascade into chaos started out as a mathematical curiosity, but Albert Libchaber's experiment on thermal convection in liquid helium demonstrated that that's actually the path nature takes (given the experimental set up and all, obviously) even to the point that the ratio between period doublings is the Feigenbaum number.

    23. Re:Died of cancer... but why? by anilg · · Score: 1

      Hehe.. yeah. Too bad he didn't patent his theory, he could have collected large royalties from MS over Vista :)

      --
      http://dilemma.gulecha.org - My philospohical short film.
    24. Re:Died of cancer... but why? by sjames · · Score: 1

      Models nothing. Clearly the most accurate (but perhaps least useful) forecast method is Eyewitness Weather.

  2. A hugely important concept... by 26199 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...and also one that's fun to play with (needs java).

    1. Re:A hugely important concept... by Tastecicles · · Score: 1

      I'll say.
      In case you missed, I'll say it again.
      There are several programs out there, most are freeware, a few are open source, but the one that sticks out in my mind and easily the best and most powerful of the bunch is FractINT. For the past fifteen years I've been playing with this gem, and I'm still finding new stuff I can do on it. Some of it isn't even covered in the 580-page manual.

      --
      Operation Guillotine is in effect.
    2. Re:A hugely important concept... by kramulous · · Score: 1

      Woohoo! When I click on the canvas I only get a straight line (vertical, drawing towards the top). What's so special about that?

      Yes, I'll go now.

      --
      .
  3. Late, late, late .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    How come this news gets on ./ so late ??

  4. Studied it for over 15 years by nighty5 · · Score: 1

    I don't like toot my own horn but I've studied chaos theory and made some significant findings over the years.

    My best work has been realised over a night of heavy intoxication especially between 18 and 23 years of age. This work requires a lot of effort and is usually conducted on Friday and Saturday nights. I can't believe just how many gifted mathematicians there is over these nights. So much research, so many beers.

    However these days I'm a bit more relaxed and allow the the younger crowds to take over.

    1. Re:Studied it for over 15 years by smallfries · · Score: 1

      I believe that I may have worked with some of your collaborators

      --
      Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
    2. Re:Studied it for over 15 years by ericvids · · Score: 1

      > I don't like toot my own horn

      I don't like toot either, but he's YOUR horn so I couldn't care less. /chaos ensues

      (It's funny. Laugh.)

      --
      Pet peeve: Profane people propagating perfunctory pedantry.
  5. He got his butterflies wrong by Hasmanean · · Score: 1

    He got his geography wrong. Butterflies in Brazil do not lead to hurricanes in Texas. As you can see on this graphic on this page, there is practically no hurricane activity in the South Atlantic.

    Most hurricanes that would hit Texas all originate as storms over West Africa.

    I wonder why Lorenz didn't use Africa in the title of his paper instead of Brazil.

    --
    Hasan
    1. Re:He got his butterflies wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      whoosh... that's the sound of a butterfly flying completely over your head...

  6. Overrated by 2.7182 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Its controversial that he was the first. A lot of people worked on this area. In fact, it is controversial that chaos will ever contribute to science in any way. The pure mathematical theory is very hard. See the work by Curt McMullen for example. Many people I know are very skeptical, and there are a lot of bad papers purporting to use chaos theory.

    1. Re:Overrated by 2.7182 · · Score: 4, Informative

      OK, this is going to get some people pissed, but it is my honest opinion and I am not doing this to troll. There are a lot of scientific areas that are promoted to get peoples careers going. In fact, they are largely vaporware. Here are some examples:

      1. Robotics. Most of academic robotics is pretty lame. The good people go into industry. Consider for example Michael Raibert and Big Dog. (Look on youtube.) This guy is a true genius, so he left MIT. Most robotics that you see in the media are really bad. Like Alan Alda talking to a robot that "has emotions".

      2. Wavelets. First of all, was invented a long time ago. Its just another choice of basis. Not clear if they are the best for compression or denoising. Look closely and you will see that classical harmonic analysis provides a good competing answer. Jpeg2000 may be better than jpg but not clear if it is due to the use of wavelets, or because of the fact that they had like 40 people working on the lossless coding scheme, which is an ad hoc heuristic. And besides, how many of us are using jpg2000 ? Finally, people I know that work in it say "I just use the haar basis". Haar found this basis in something like 1912.

      3. Chaos. By definition hard to appy to experimental science. As mention the mathematical theory is super hard. McMullen won a Fields medal for it. Work by Sullivan and Duordy is awesome, but they aren't claiming to connect it to experiments.

      4. Catastrophe theory. This was the 60s and 70s version of wavelets. Hardly mentioned in the media anyone, and mostly the people who work on it are pure mathematicians.

      5. Artificial intelligence. Goedel Escher Bach had our hopes up. But nothing ever happened. It' too hard. People claim breakthoughs all the time, but wheres the beef ?

      6. Computer vision. A total mess. They don't even read each others papers and are busy reproducing each other's work, with tends to be some hacks that work only in limited conditions. Remember the MIT face recognition program after 9/11 that was at the Statue of Liberty ? They failed it!

    2. Re:Overrated by SkyDude · · Score: 1

      4. Catastrophe theory. This was the 60s and 70s version of wavelets. Hardly mentioned in the media anyone, and mostly the people who work on it are pure mathematicians.


      This would explain the onslaught of mega-disaster movies in the 70s.

      5. Artificial intelligence. Goedel Escher Bach had our hopes up. But nothing ever happened. It's too hard. People claim breakthroughs all the time, but wheres the beef ?

      This may be miles above my head, but how could AI ever exist? OK, I can be sold on the idea that there's a clever algorithm at work in AI, but, just like a human mind, choices would be limited to what the person has learned about. Doesn't that limitation apply to a computer's programming? If so, where's the intelligence?

      --
      == First cross river, then insult alligator.
    3. Re:Overrated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This may be miles above my head, but how could AI ever exist? OK, I can be sold on the idea that there's a clever algorithm at work in AI, but, just like a human mind, choices would be limited to what the person has learned about. Doesn't that limitation apply to a computer's programming? If so, where's the intelligence?
      So you disagree that the mind is a physical system?
    4. Re:Overrated by protobion · · Score: 2, Informative

      OK, this is going to get some people pissed, but it is my honest opinion and I am not doing this to troll. There are a lot of scientific areas that are promoted to get peoples careers going. In fact, they are largely vaporware. Here are some examples:

      1. Robotics. Most of academic robotics is pretty lame. The good people go into industry. Consider for example Michael Raibert and Big Dog. (Look on youtube.) This guy is a true genius, so he left MIT. Most robotics that you see in the media are really bad. Like Alan Alda talking to a robot that "has emotions".

      2. Wavelets. First of all, was invented a long time ago. Its just another choice of basis. Not clear if they are the best for compression or denoising. Look closely and you will see that classical harmonic analysis provides a good competing answer. Jpeg2000 may be better than jpg but not clear if it is due to the use of wavelets, or because of the fact that they had like 40 people working on the lossless coding scheme, which is an ad hoc heuristic. And besides, how many of us are using jpg2000 ? Finally, people I know that work in it say "I just use the haar basis". Haar found this basis in something like 1912.

      3. Chaos. By definition hard to appy to experimental science. As mention the mathematical theory is super hard. McMullen won a Fields medal for it. Work by Sullivan and Duordy is awesome, but they aren't claiming to connect it to experiments.

      4. Catastrophe theory. This was the 60s and 70s version of wavelets. Hardly mentioned in the media anyone, and mostly the people who work on it are pure mathematicians.

      5. Artificial intelligence. Goedel Escher Bach had our hopes up. But nothing ever happened. It' too hard. People claim breakthoughs all the time, but wheres the beef ?

      6. Computer vision. A total mess. They don't even read each others papers and are busy reproducing each other's work, with tends to be some hacks that work only in limited conditions. Remember the MIT face recognition program after 9/11 that was at the Statue of Liberty ? They failed it! And I trust you speak of this from your expertise in every one of those fields ?

      I'll talk about only what I know. In biology, from eco-systems to cellular processes, one sees a lot of non-linear dynamics, many of those appearing to conform to chaos theory. Chaos theory is beleived to be the closest thing we have to explaining those phenomenon. And yes, it is challenging.
      --
      Essentia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.
    5. Re:Overrated by jmichaelg · · Score: 2, Informative
      it is controversial that chaos will ever contribute to science in any way.


      I agree that a lot of chaos work produced not much more than chaos. But sometimes a paper can tell you what results to discard out of hand and that in itself is a contribution. From his seminal 1963 paper,

      When our results concerning the instability of nonperiodic flow are applied to the atmosphere, which is ostensibly non-periodic, they indicate that that prediction of the distant sufficiently distant future is impossible by any method, unless the present conditions are known exactly.

    6. Re:Overrated by Xest · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The first step in producing an intelligent system is creating something that can constantly take in inputs and react to them in some intelligent way.

      People overlook how important Turing's original successes in producing the earlier computers were towards this goal, the fact that he was able to create a machine that was continuously able to react to inputs and respond to them in a much more dynamic way than mechanical systems is a good first step, the fact we even have computers is a major hurdle out the way in producing intelligent systems.

      AI suffers in that the more we understand about intelligence the less we actually attribute to intelligence. Intelligence is too often treated as some mystical thing that is unexplainable and just is, but the fact is at the end of the day it does just come down to sets of processes and knowledge - albeit extremely complex ones! The problem is in how do we produce something capable of performing processes on par with a human brain when the human brain is a massively powerful system that we just don't have the technology to create artificially on that scale yet.

      Of course there's also the question of defining intelligence in the first place, different people explain intelligence in different ways. Many people even redefine their understanding of intelligence many times in a single day, you may have person x deciding one person is stupid and unintelligent one minute because they failed a simple English exam yet they may decide their dog is intelligent the next because it lifted it's paw for that person when given a command to do so. It is the moving goalposts of what intelligence is that are often why intelligence often gets treated with such contempt as using the above example we may create a robot that could equally lift a robotic paw on being given the same voice command as a real dog, yet when the robot does it it's no longer classed as intelligent. It's hard if not impossible right now to create a system that would be capable of passing the English exam, but you can guarantee as soon as we could it would no longer be seen as an intelligent task due to the very fact that it had been handed on to a machine to perform.

      AI isn't impossible by any measure, we just have to have realistic expectations for it and realise when we've create a machine that has actually peformed an intelligent task. There is never going to be a mystical machine that's seen as being an amazing AI robot because it can walk like us, talk like us and act like us simply because by the time we are able to produce such a machine we will understand it well enough that the mysticism has gone and it's just another machine performing some task that we now understand that we can produce machines to perform.

    7. Re:Overrated by genmax · · Score: 1
      Wavelets - yes it is "just" a choice of basis, but a good one for images because it admits a sparse representations of image features. Sharp edges which essentially are very high frequency and would take a lot of significant Fourier coefficients to reconstruct are much more compactly explained in the wavelet basis. Sparse representation implies better compression and higher signal to noise ratios for de-noising.

      I'm sorry, but your high-handed dismissal of all of these research areas (Computer Vision - heard of Microsoft's photosynth, Honda Labs' recent work towards automated pedestrian detection, image search algorithms at University of Cambridge, etc) with such sweeping one line critiques is quite obnoxious - so yes, you were right - people are going to be pissed.

    8. Re:Overrated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      By using the word 'vaporware' you are indicating that you fail to understand basic research. Basic research is about knowledge, and not about products, and serve as a basis for many real day applications, or forms paths to new knowledge. In order for basic research to work, the researcher need to have a goal, a focus point that might be researchable in the far future, to work too. This 'dream' keeps them focussed and interested in an otherwise boring topic.

      I don't think many people didn't see the use of Gauss' stuff back then, but try to imagine a world without all that mathematical knowledge.

    9. Re:Overrated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah yes, you sound like one of the brainwashed wavelets people. It's like having a conversation with a creationist. You can't convince me that wavelets are good because they SOUND like a good idea. Can you answer the questions raised above about jpg2000 ? Can you point to hard numbers and comparisons of wavelets with other methods ? The burden is on you, as an advocate of wavelets, since there don't seem to be any compelling examples that are so much better than other methods.

    10. Re:Overrated by Schemat1c · · Score: 1

      Its controversial that he was the first. A lot of people worked on this area. In fact, it is controversial that chaos will ever contribute to science in any way. Yes, the whole history of this idea is very... chaotic?

      *ducks*
      --

      "Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everybody agrees that it is old enough to know better." - Unknown
    11. Re:Overrated by genmax · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Err ... no - that's what all the wavelet based compression and denoising papers _are_ about. Comparisons in terms of number of significant wavelet coefficients required, compression ratios, mean square error in denoised images, etc. There is a reason the JPEG committee put wavelets into the jpeg2000 standard.

      There were no 'questions raised' about jpg2000 - only the poster's impression that they were not a good idea. Wavelets and their use to image processing on the other hand has gone through a very thorough peer review process, and the comparisons are there for everyone to see in these journals.

      And nice job with comparison to creationists - may I point out that it is you (and the original poster) who is challenging accepted wisdom in science and research communities - accepted after a thorough peer-review process that is - without any tangible arguements.

    12. Re:Overrated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are an idiot. As a Graduate Student in Physics with a Bachelors in Math/Physics: We are using the theory both in Physics and in Math, not to mention Chaos Theory is used in Cognitive Neuroscience now as well, in the field of artificial neural networks.
      But I do have to say that his research was no where near as important or vast as Newton's. Compared to Isaac he was a nobody.

    13. Re:Overrated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The investigation into chaos (if you read lorenz's book you'd know) is looking at the overall behavior of non-linear dynamical systems which are characterized most prominently by sensitivity to initial conditions. You may find it a trifle now to enter in some equations into your computer and let it run to show you the results, but from the era lorenz started in, this was entirely new. People had no way of estimating how fluid turbulence would occur other than, "unless you model each point/atom, your model is inaccurate." What is really amazing is how much these people have brought chaos theory to public attention by pointing to your simple pendulum and noting how it is, in fact, chaotic under driving and damping forces. These are the baby steps needed before we are able to more fully understand complicated systems, and to scoff at them like they don't apply is to laugh at the foundation for not doing much besides supporting the building.

    14. Re:Overrated by DynaSoar · · Score: 2, Interesting

      > ... it is controversial that chaos will ever
      > contribute to science in any way. ... there are
      > a lot of bad papers purporting to use chaos
      > theory.

      From my own field:

      Supporting your assertion -- A characterization of chaos is measuring the fractional (ie. 'fractal') dimensionality of the phenomenon. Someone estimated the dimension of the human cortex, with its convolutions embedded within convolutions. They plugged in numbers and got a result. But what's the point? What good does it do? There's no theory of even speculation as to what this might mean. It's doing 'sexy' but irrelevant science.

      Contrary to your assertion -- EEG shows signs of being chaotic (self-similarity at different scales, dependence on initial conditions). Characterizing the dynamics (changing dimensionality) of the bioelectric field at different scales was compared with the same measure of synchronous firing of neural assemblies. The result significantly supported the hypothesis that EEG at different scales represented changes in neural synchrony/desynchrony at different scales. The synchrony concept is trivial, and well supported by electrophysiological measurement. This application showed that characterizing the signal as chaotic (and so too the deterministic phenomenon producing it) had some validity. The utility of the study applies to use of transcranial magnetic stimulation to force widespread synchronus firing, reducing the dimensionality, and forcing a state also having low D, that of people with depression taking antidepressants and showing benefit from them. It supports the hypothesis that TMS can treat depression. And it now does.

      With respect to my field, you're mostly correct in your assertion. Most applications are quite obviously being done by people with little understanding of the concepts, and/or applied to things with little regard as to whether it makes sense to do so.

      > Its controversial that [Lorenz] was the first.

      Quite so. He did, however, investigate the nature of what he was seeing in a very creditable way. After noting the sensitivity to initial conditions, he reran one of his simulations from the middle, expecting it to finish out the run producing the same data. It didn't. And he took that to be a significant (in the practical sense) result, despite it being contrary to his expectations. Many researchers would bottom-drawer a dataset that contradicted their hypotheses. He recognized the probability that it would prove important. That takes some courage as a researcher, and he deserves credit for that at least.

      --
      "I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
    15. Re:Overrated by Unfocused · · Score: 1

      Some would argue that the minds of certain others aren't intelligent systems.

      --
      ---- Don't lick something unless you really mean it.
    16. Re:Overrated by Chutulu · · Score: 0

      Wavelets has lots of applications in segmentation methods as well as Markov Fields for example. They are good at finding differences in images textures. Computer vision is still a field that needs a lot of development. It's very difficult to find proper methods to solve a problem. And yes when it works it only does in very special conditions. The same can be said about speech and text recognition. But don't you think it is worth all the work people have made? By making small steps we can reach the goal we all desire, no?

    17. Re:Overrated by fm6 · · Score: 1

      Basically, you're complaining that all the ideas you mention are overhyped and are dominated by inept hacks.

      You're absolutely right. But so what? It doesn't detract from the achievements of the brilliant people who founded these fields. Let's stop and appreciate Edward Lorenz's achievements, and save Fixing Academic Science for another day.

    18. Re:Overrated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      0. Grid Computing

      How can you miss that? In addition to being vaporware, it has earned the notorious distinction of consuming millions and millions of research funding $$s, and all it has produced is a slide full of icons, cool keywords, and acronyms.

    19. Re:Overrated by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1
      It's hard to quantify awareness, and until we can do that we have nothing to measure, and therefore no science. Best to stick with applications, at least that way we'll make steady advancement and perhaps approach the goal.

      Remember it's mostly a matter of interpretation, of semantics. To ask whether a machine can think is like asking whether a submarine can swim.

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    20. Re:Overrated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree with this, and have nothing to add. I sorta disagree with the sequence of things to come, but I like this post a lot.

  7. Why Lorenz's work was important by wickerprints · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Back in my college days, I visited the library and looked up Lorenz's paper, "Deterministic Nonperiodic Flow." On the face of it, the presentation was not particularly striking, nor did it seem significant on a superficial reading. That it was buried in a meteorology journal, rather than a mathematics or physics journal, only further obscured its importance.

    Lorenz's discovery was not so much about the specific nonlinear differential system (now named after him) that he discussed in the paper, nor was it about chaos theory as we now know it. The significance lay entirely in the notion that even simple dynamical systems can display sensitive dependence on initial conditions, and that when extrapolated to real-world phenomena, the intrinsic complexity of their behavior was all but inevitable.

    A chaotic system is not merely disordered, or random. There is an underlying structure. Call it a kind of orderly disorder. Prior to (and indeed, for some time after) Lorenz's work, physicists largely dismissed this possibility as absurd. We can, in such a system, model its state at some infinitesimal time t+dt after some given state at time t. We can do this quite accurately. But as Lorenz showed, the deterministic property is insufficient to imply that one can know the state of the system at any arbitrary time in the future. There is a difference between knowing how the future is calculated from the past, versus knowing what the future will actually be.

    Hence the chosen title. "Deterministic" = future states are well-defined from a known prior state. "Nonperiodic" = does not display cyclical behavior. "Flow" = fluid dynamics, in Lorenz's case, atmospheric convection.

    He is truly missed.

    1. Re:Why Lorenz's work was important by jlcooke · · Score: 1

      Pointcare knew of such systems when he worked on the n-body problem. Thing was - he died before Lorenz was ever in school. So Lorenz is given title of "father of chaos" when it's not appropriate to do so, imho.

  8. RIP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I guess entropy got the best of him...

  9. wya to rock thaty old news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    WAY TO ROCK THAT OLD NEWS!

  10. Ray Bradbury story (1952) by Fallen+Andy · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Time travelling hunter strays off path and kills a butterfly ... A Sound of Thunder

    Andy

  11. Chaos theory in 3 words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Errors add up.

  12. The butterfly effect is way too slow... by howardd21 · · Score: 1

    Evidently dying on Weds does not result in a Slashdot post until Sunday? That is one slow effect...

    --
    no comment
  13. Underrated by bunratty · · Score: 1

    1. It was the academic robotics teams that did well in the 2005 DARPA grand challenge (the top finishers were from Stanford and Carnegie-Mellon). Note that this also incorporated your #6, computer vision.

    5. AI continues to improve at a steady pace. It's not that "nothing ever happened". For example, the DARPA Grand Challenge was won and Kasparov was beaten by Deep Blue. I think you might be referring to "strong AI" which we won't get until about 2030 because computers simply won't be fast enough until then.

    I think if anything, people aren't realizing how quickly technology is advancing. This is the nature of exponential growth. I'm sure people will be dismissing AI and robotic research right up to when everything changes, seemingly out of the blue to most people.

    --
    What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
    1. Re:Underrated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you worked in those areas ? I did for many years. It was depressing.

    2. Re:Underrated by Metasquares · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      What you are saying is we won't get AI until 2030 because computers won't be fast enough to brute force it until then (and that's only if you believe Kurzweil). We can do it earlier if we could come up with some clever ideas, but I don't have any doubts that the first AI is going to be an exact neuron-for-neuron reconstruction of the brain.

    3. Re:Underrated by bunratty · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I know Kurzweil makes similar claims, but I am not merely regurgitating his ideas. The computational power of the brain is massive. In order to have similar computational power in a computer, we will need to wait for many generations of improvements in processors. We will almost certainly need to move away from very powerful cores based on semiconductors timed by a clock towards smaller asynchronous processors. Even with those advancements, there's no way we'll be able to simulate a human brain in real time by 2030. I think the first strong AI will resemble a human brain about as much as the Wright flyer resembled a bird.

      --
      What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
    4. Re:Underrated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Learn your facts before you speak. He said that we WILL BE ABLE TO simulate the brain by 2040/50, and not only will there be an eqivelent level of computing, but a more powerful one sooner or later. Plus take into account that saps came from billions of years of evolution, computers have been evolving for a few hundred, and their already more complex than the bacteria that took millions to evolve.

    5. Re:Underrated by DeadDecoy · · Score: 1

      I don't think it's the brain's computational power that's slowing us up so much as a lack of understanding how the brain works. I doubt that the full chemical pathways that occur when someone experiences something (and has that information stored and processed) has been described anywhere. Sure we know what some of the general components are for long/short term memory and cognitive thinking, but we're still a long way off from understanding how that stuff works. It would be like understanding how a everything in a computer works without having the theory or prior experience to back it up. Sure, that thing looks like a hard drive and stores data, but how does it do that (assuming you've never seen a hd before)? In fact, I'm sure that if we could characterize the human brain patterns, there would probably be hundreds of grant requests for super computers, or a lot of parallel processors to do the work.

    6. Re:Underrated by bunratty · · Score: 1

      No, it is the computational power. Last year, one-half of a mouse brain was simulated at one-tenth real-time. Can you imagine how slowly a full human brain would run in 2008? It would take years just to see what happens upon it getting basic sensory stimulus, far too slowly to get useful research out of it.

      --
      What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
    7. Re:Underrated by bunratty · · Score: 1

      Yes, we will be able to simulate the human brain by 2040 to 2050. We will not be able to do so by 2030, as I said. We will have the a computer equivalent in computational power to a human brain by around 2030. The 10-20 year lag is due to the overhead of emulating hardware that is quite different than a computer. That's why I say the first strong AI will not simulate a human brain, but rather do what a human brain does in different, more computer-like ways.

      --
      What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
  14. Or did he? by Snaller · · Score: 1

    Its a leaf in the forest.

    --
    If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
  15. "flow "- not form fluid dynamics by S3D · · Score: 4, Informative

    Flow in the title of Lorentz paper is not a flow from fluid dynamics or physics. It's a purely mathematical term which mean a solution of differential equation (Lorentz equation in the case). In more general sense flow is a group action of R on the manifold - that is solution of the differential equation on the curved surface. It's studied by specific branches of mathematics - Differential (topological) dynamics, which in big parts owes its origination to the Lorentz paper. So the title of the paper really mean "Deterministic Nonperiodic Solutions"

  16. Requiescat in pace by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Rest in peace, Edward Lorenz. The world will be a little more chaotic without you. Or maybe less. I can't predict which.

  17. Now I can say by kampangptlk · · Score: 0

    his death will cause the universe to explode. wow.

    --
    àà®à¥à®à¾à¦ààYà¥àà àà
  18. Father of chaos theory? by migloo · · Score: 1

    I do not want to belittle Lorenz' major contribution to chaos theory, but the concept (if not the word) of chaos had long been fairly well grasped by Poincaré (1890) and Hadamard (1898).

    1. Re:Father of chaos theory? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      No, they discovered chaotic systems but did not identify chaos theory. Their discoveries are analogous to Kepler's equations of planetary motion versus Newton's formal theory of gravity. Or Faraday's studies of the electric and magnetic fields versus Maxwell's formal electrodynamic theory. Hadamard, Lyapunov, and Poincaré made great contributions, but they did not found chaos theory. They observed individual problems but failed to piece it together in the more general mathematical theory. I don't fault any of them. Nonlinear dynamics was only in its infancy during their lives.

    2. Re:Father of chaos theory? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      Ed Lorenz's insight was not mathematics, but physical understanding and explanation.

      There is plenty of obscure mathematics irrelevant to the real world, and besides Lorenz surely didn't know about exotica of Poincare either. And some Poincare's work was regarded, in its own day, as not sufficiently rigorous folderol, out of mainstream mathematics.

      The point was not that chaos was a pathological mathematics object, but that it was real and common and critical in real world physics and models used by physics, and that common explanations (at the time) for complexity---pictures of broad band mode excitation in a linearish model---were not necessarily right.

  19. Chaos theory father dies of cancer by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

    Doesn't anybody see the irony here?

    --
    Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    1. Re:Chaos theory father dies of cancer by crossmr · · Score: 1

      er.. no?

      You might be thinking of coincidence... or really something else entirely... lots of people die of lots of things..

  20. An experiment by Coppit · · Score: 4, Informative

    Here's a simple chaos experiment you can do at home... Turn on a faucet slightly so that it drips regularly. Then increment the flow slightly, and pretty soon the drips will come out in a non-regular way. Understanding the transition from regular to irregular is part of what chaos theory is about.

    1. Re:An experiment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Keep the process on until the water overflows the sink and makes a chaos on your carpet.

  21. the thing about mathematical theories by rootpassbird · · Score: 0

    and constructs is that you don't think they are useful for decades or even centuries, and then, one fine day, the next big thing of the day is based on one of these "languishing, useless" constructs, combined with somthing else that is recently (at the time) discovered or invented.
    These theories _last_.
    They wait patiently for society to evolve to the point of using them in practice.
    Disclaimer 1: IANAM (mahematician).
    Disclaimer 2: does not apply to all works.

    --
    Hackers have long memories. It works both ways.
  22. Huh? by Xest · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    "5. Artificial intelligence. Goedel Escher Bach had our hopes up. But nothing ever happened. It' too hard. People claim breakthoughs all the time, but wheres the beef ?"



    You sound like you're a hook line and sinker victim of the AI effect. I'm no expert in the other areas you mention, but in terms of AI you truly don't seem to understand the subject at all. There are plenty of examples out there of fields where AI has been extremely successful and are used on a daily basis - data mining, medical diagnosis, spam filtering to name a few examples. I can only guess that you're living under some false expectation of strong AI anytime soon, whilst the possibilities of AI were overhyped for a long time, it's now also nearly been equally long accepted that we simply don't have the understanding or the computing power to produce strong AI quite just yet.

    1. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      data mining, medical diagnosis, spam filtering
      Well, one could argue that these are basically more or less novel statistical methods.
      Do they have taught us any insights into the phenomena of intelligence ?

    2. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More like "The AI effect is a construction of desperate AI people".

    3. Re:Huh? by Xest · · Score: 1

      Whilst not all are statistical methods, you're correct in saying that some are but no more so than natural phenomena unwittingly are and in most cases AI solutions are biologically inspired in this way such that they are just models of natural processes adapted to solve a specific problem. This seems to be the basic image problem AI suffers in that as I mentioned, the more we understand how intelligence arises, the less mystical it actually becomes and hence ends up no longer being treated as intelligence.

      I think the thing to take away is not necessarily that AI is failing to produce anything, but that what AI is producing is no longer classed as AI for the previously mentioned reasons. People misbelieve therefore that AI is useless, but by studying the underlying processes behind intelligence and applying that to computer science it still produces extraordinarily useful methods for solving real life problems. Essentially AI is taking problems that we perceive as requiring intelligence to solve and finding solutions that we then no longer see as intelligent, regardless of the fact this doesn't live up to the idea that sci-fi shows have told us we should come to expect from AI (androids etc.) it's still immensely useful. To answer the original posters question as to where's the beef - all around us when you make a telephone call, when you undergo medical diagnosis, when your banks are playing with your money on world markets, when your kids lesson plan is calculated, when warehouses want to calculate optimal storage layouts. All these problems can and very often are solved with AI gone mainstream.

      It's worth noting that the OP is equally wrong about the usefulness about Chaos in this respect as emergence plays a vital part in some areas of AI that have indeed been used to produce solutions to real life problems. Whilst I don't really know anything about the other areas he mentions I'd question his credibility in those areas also based on his comments about Chaos and AI failing to produce useful results being outright false.

  23. But but but! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But i invented the Chaos Theory, if you don't belive me come have a look at my room!

    (Chapta: Nonsense)

  24. Fractint by Alarindris · · Score: 2, Informative

    I saw a program on the Mandelbrot set and Lorenz attractor on PBS in the late 80's. Completely changed the way I thought about the world. Also where I discovered Fractint.

    http://www.fractint.org/

  25. Hmm by rakzor · · Score: 1

    Famous scientists around their 90's are dieing lately.

    --
    -Nemo me impune lacessit-
  26. Contribution to relativistic physics and limericks by mpoulton · · Score: 1

    There once was a man named Fisk whose thrust of the sword was so brisk that with the speed of the action the Lorentz-Fitzgerald Contraction reduced his rapier to a disk!

    --
    I am a geek attorney, but not your geek attorney unless you've already retained me. This is not legal advice.
  27. oh? by thedrx · · Score: 1

    What is your Erdos-Bacon number?

  28. his death ... by FIT_Entry1 · · Score: 0

    ... was ruled to be completely random.

  29. So, farewell, Ed Lorenz by E.J.Thribb · · Score: 0

    So.

    Farewell then, Ed Lorenz.

    You have
    in a way
    reached a steady state,
    that is to say
    a point attractor
    with cycle zero.

    Now you can say hello to Shrödinger.
    And stroke his cat.
    If it's dead, that is.

    --
    (Age 17 1/2)
  30. Obligatory Addition to your Gleick Bookshelf by iluvcapra · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Chaos: The Making of a New Science. Tells the entire story of Lorentz's discovery, in gory detail, down to the fact that he used a Royal McBee computer to do his original weather simulation, the same computer in the famous hacker "Story of Mel".

    --
    Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
  31. Not "unless" but "even if" by crovira · · Score: 1

    Chaos is a process or descending down paths probabilities, not a result.

    Quantum theory and the indeterminacy of states means that the actual state of a system has to be known, it cannot be calculated.

    --
    MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
  32. He discovered the Lorenz Attractor? by Rui+del-Negro · · Score: 1

    Whoa, talk about a coincidence.

  33. A butterfly, or a thousand 777s? by starglider29a · · Score: 1

    If a butterfly can cause a hurricane, what can an entire air corridor of passenger liners do?
    Did we notice a change in the weather in the days after 9/11 when the planes were grounded?
    Has the last few decades of jet air travel caused the weather system to adapt such that reducing the number of flights (like 800 jets grounded for safety inspections) have a greater effect than leaving them flying?
    Could the rapid swings in weather, (higher highs/lower lows) be caused by the aircraft Giga-Butterfly Effect (aka the Mothra Effect) more than a climate warming effect?
    What effect would a nuclear detonation have?
    How much effect does war in Iraq have?

    Maybe the Chinese should ask for a moratorium on war in Iraq during the Olympics... or whatever the Butterfly Interval is.

  34. How disappointing... by clichescreenname · · Score: 1

    I mean, seriously... cancer? At age 90? How predictable...

    I just wish he could have had a "Final Destination" style death...

  35. Furthermore... by thegnu · · Score: 1

    ...if he doesn't die next year at the same time, we can finally be sure he was on to something. :)

    --
    Please stop stalking me, bro.
  36. in games by rastoboy29 · · Score: 1

    I got a first class example of this in my game, where I have dumb bots following simple paths with nodes.  That's all they do, follow paths.  But in the engine they are subject to the vagueries of the physics and sim system.  I have long noticed how even the slightest change in initial orientation or inertia can have wildly significant effects on the precise paths the bots take, or whether they can complete them at all.  The system, in fact, is sufficiently complex, that even background processes on the game server can effect the timing of some moves, and thus the paths.

    Needless to say, debugging could be unpleasant.

  37. Dies? by AP31R0N · · Score: 1

    OffTopic Snobbery:

    He dies at 90? Is that because it is going to happen in the future? "The train arrives at noon." Or is it dies habitually? "Tony Hawk skates."

    It seems more likely that "Lorenz died at the age of 90". Or "Lorenz is dead at age 90".

    Do people go stupid when someone dies and forget verb tense because they are so wracked with grief for a stranger?

    --
    Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!