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Macs Gaining a Bigger Role In Enterprise

rev_media tips a short article up at InfoWorld giving some numbers on the increasing Mac presence in businesses. "We're seeing more requests outside of creative services to switch to Macs from PCs," notes the operations manager for a global advertising conglomerate. They "now [support] 2,500 Macs across the US — nearly a quarter of all... US PCs." Another straw in the wind: "Security firm Kapersky Labs has already created a Mac version of its anti-virus software for release should Mac growth continue (and the Mac thus [find] itself prey to more hackers)."

70 of 383 comments (clear)

  1. Macs Gaining a Bigger Role in the Enterprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Well that's only because you can run LCARS in vmware now...

    1. Re:Macs Gaining a Bigger Role in the Enterprise by Kamokazi · · Score: 4, Funny

      Really? Can it emulate the bio-neural circuitry found on the NCC-1701-E, or am I stuck with old-school isolinear circuitry emulation? (or god forbid, duotronics?)

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    2. Re:Macs Gaining a Bigger Role in the Enterprise by maxume · · Score: 5, Funny

      You are stuck in the basement.

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    3. Re:Macs Gaining a Bigger Role in the Enterprise by Dystopian+Rebel · · Score: 2, Funny

      Captain: Scotteeee! What... are... all... these... little files everwhere?!

      Scot: Och, they arrre Finderrr Trrribbles, Captain!

      Spock: It is illogical for the Finder to leave these little creatures everywhere. [DS_STORE screams as Spock touches it.]

      McCoy: They don't seem to like pointed-eared Vulcans with external USB storage, do they?

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    4. Re:Macs Gaining a Bigger Role in the Enterprise by Kamokazi · · Score: 2, Funny

      I prefer to call it 'the bridge'. Now shut the door, you're letting sunlight in.

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  2. Low starting point by timmarhy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Well when you've got such a low starting point it's not hard to improve is it? i think this deserves a dilbert comic, something like marketing showing a 100% increase when they only sold 1 extra unit.

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    1. Re:Low starting point by flyingsquid · · Score: 5, Funny
      You know, when they said that Macs were gaining a "bigger role in the Enterprise" I had a picture of a bunch of Macs installed on the bridge of a Federation starship. And this dialogue:

      "Fire photon torpedoes!"

      "I can't!"

      "What's wrong, number one?"

      "There's just a single mouse button! I can't right-click on the Klingon ship!"

      "Dammit! Do a command-click!"

  3. Re:Macs on the Enterprise by calebt3 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Brought to you by the Department of Redundancy Department.

  4. I honestly donâ(TM)t want more market share.. by Rod76 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If Macs ever get to be the predominant platform or to common, Im switching to Linux. Call me a troll or whatever (Im a Mac user and have been for over a decade, so you other zealots feel free to mode down one of your own), but I dont want the Mac to grow anymore than it already has. Id much rather see OSS software take over the market and let the others be a paid choice.

    --
    Die First, Then Quit
  5. Fed up with MS by stoolpigeon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think a lot of us really hoped that eventually people would really get what a mess Microsoft's products are and then OSS would really take off. Instead what I think is happening is that Apple may really see some growth.
     
    I don't know if this means much but my department of 80-90 has gone from zero to about 20% mac in the last year. I don't see that adoption rate slowing down either. Now in the server room it is a mix - Windows, AIX and Linux. With Linux growing the fastest. But on the desktop I don't think anyone is full time Linux only. Even the Linux users all have a windows or apple machine.

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    1. Re:Fed up with MS by howlingmadhowie · · Score: 2, Insightful

      losing out on the advantages of linux? by using OSX you lose out on the most important advantage of gnu/linux and free software: you actually own the software, you don't just license it.

      the philosophical difference between software released under a free license and proprietary software is massive. as for the technical difference, well that is something you can of course never know, seeing as you can only know what free software technically is.

    2. Re:Fed up with MS by node+3 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Free is just a feature. When I choose a computer or operating system, I weigh all the features, in proportion to their importance to me.

      Free is nice, but I'd rather have a system that works well, and is compatible with the hardware and software I most care about.

      as for the technical difference, well that is something you can of course never know, seeing as you can only know what free software technically is. Aside from specific technical requirements for such assurance, what does it matter, in practice? Should I worry that I can't prove that Photoshop isn't setting the blur radius to 2.1 when I request 2.0? Is it important that I can't prove that iTunes isn't shuffling the songs randomly?
    3. Re:Fed up with MS by symbolset · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't know if you've read it yet. Microsoft's Vista Problem at the New York Times is especially informative. Pay special attention to the comments.

      FTA:

      Microsoft keeps insisting that Windows Vista is a winner, but the questions keep mounting -- and Thursday's quarterly report only added to the doubts.

      The comments are especially interesting. 90% anti-Vista, 50% anti-Microsoft, 30% pro Linux (or thereabouts).

      There was a saying once: "Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM". It became untrue overnight and people who didn't see the change happening lost everything. Who are you faithful to?

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    4. Re:Fed up with MS by pandrijeczko · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Apple sold well over 8M Macs in the last year, that's a whole lot of sales to beat.

      As I've said on here many times before, I've worked in the telecoms/IT industry for 25+ years now as a techie of various types.

      And in ***ALL*** that time here in the UK, I have seen a total of ***THREE*** Macs anywhere - one was a notebook owned by an American trainer on a course I did, my friend has a Mac gathering dust in its box in his study because his boss gave it to him not knowing what to do with it and he doesn't know what to do with it either, and the third was a student posing with one in a local coffee store.

      Yes, Macs may have a higher penetration in the US, I'm not arguing that. But over here in the UK (and I suspect Europe), I suspect more people still own Amigas than they do Macs - they really are ***LOW*** penetration over here.

      Also, please bear in mind that in Europe, Linux penetration is far higher than it is in the US which also goes some way to explaining why Macs are very uncommon.

      You need to realise that despite the very good Euro/Dollar & Sterling/Dollar exchange rates currently, over here we never benefit too much from those because US manufacturers consistently rip us off for pricing. Only the other day, I picked up an O'Reilly book in a bookshop that had a $49.99 cover price but was £39.99 to buy in Sterling - nowhere near the 2:1 Sterling/Dollar exchange rate that there is currently.

      --
      Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
    5. Re:Fed up with MS by frehe · · Score: 2, Interesting

      the most important advantage of gnu/linux and free software: you actually own the software, you don't just license it. You don't own GPL licensed software, unless you've written it. For instance; can you republish it under another license, such as the BSD license, or close source it? IMHO, GPL is just a "benevolent dictatorship" like form of regular Microsoft style software licensing. It's restricts what I can do with the software, and in addition tries to lift those restrictions to a moral high ground.
  6. I call bullshit by zappepcs · · Score: 2, Interesting
    That was a very inflated summary... fuck

    FTFA

    "We're seeing more requests outside of creative services to switch to Macs from PCs," notes David Plavin, operations manager for Mac systems engineering at the U.S. IT division of Publicis Groupe, a global advertising conglomerate. There are so many requests that Plavin now supports 2,500 Macs across the U.S. -- nearly a quarter of all Publicis' U.S. PCs. There that sorts it out, 2500 is no where near 1/4 of all US pc's... damn

    Besides, uhmmmm, ok, so Mac is gaining ground. How much is that about the Mac vs. about Microsoft being shit for the last three years? Vista did more than an 'own goal' they are giving points away to EVERYONE else. Of course Mac will get some of them. It doesn't hurt that the iWHATEVER has been so popular. It's called the halo effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_effect and so Mac gets more customers right now. Lets see how long they keep them? The halo effect has been shown to be quite a peak-then-die thing unless the product has real staying power.

    Don't get me wrong, Mac has some serious positive qualities and I'm not going to bash it (other than being proprietary and expensive) but this story is not taking into account the halo effect nor the gains made from MS defectors. Defectors? Why don't we just describe them as passengers on the titanic looking for a life raft without having to resort to building their own?

    I have a couple of friends (who have obvious desires for Mac due to musical or creative arts reasons) who have opted for a flashy balls out Mac because, and I quote "I just want something that works and I don't have to fuck with it, no matter what the cost is."

    Mac will get those votes. With the looming recession I don't think there will end up being all that many of those votes, especially when GNU/Linux is making so much headway. I'm not declaring a winner or anything, just saying that the optimistic view of this FA is .. well, overly optimistic given the other facts of life.
    1. Re:I call bullshit by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2, Funny
      Oh come now, Mr. and Ms. Moderator. Just because zappecs isn't in a very good mood, there's no need to Trollerize him. Besides having a reasonably cogent point (the article is pretty lame and stupid), he's posting on Slashdot on a Saturday night. He's obviously a lonely guy stuck in some (perhaps figurative) basement.

      Where's the love?

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    2. Re:I call bullshit by CODiNE · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "We're seeing more requests outside of creative services to switch to Macs from PCs," notes David Plavin, operations manager for Mac systems engineering at the U.S. IT division of Publicis Groupe, a global advertising conglomerate. There are so many requests that Plavin now supports 2,500 Macs across the U.S. -- nearly a quarter of all Publicis' U.S. PCs. There that sorts it out, 2500 is no where near 1/4 of all US pc's... damn

      You're just reading too fast and getting offended at what you perceive as Mac fanboism... they are stating that 2,500 Macs are 1/4 of Publicis' US computer systems. So it's an anecdotal report of one particular companies growing Mac trend. Read what you want from it, but it's not talking about Macs being 25% of the US PC sales or anything like that. Slow down and as a Technocarpenter might say "Read twice, reply once."
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    3. Re:I call bullshit by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Don't do this on a Sunday morning... If you're gonna be obtuse and use non standard analogies (where's the car?) at least use an emoticon. I'm still trying to figure out if you're just being a bit more sideways than usual or if you've had a Total Whoosh Moment.

      If I can't tell what you're up to, how do you expect the moderators to figure it out?

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  7. Re:I honestly donâ(TM)t want more market shar by timmarhy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    thats right you can't be an elitist snob if everyone had one.

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  8. Re:More IT Jobs require Mac skills by ColdWetDog · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Nah, according TFA, you don't need Mac tech skills:

    After all, as Publicis' Plavin notes, Macs -- which cost the same as equivalently configured business-class PCs -- are cheaper to support because they are easier to support.

    To which I might add, "Citation Needed".

    I'm a recent Mac switcher with years of Windows experience. It's not all that easy to get OS X to work and play well with Active Directory and Windows networking (or maybe it's the other way around). IT lets me play with the Mac because I'm pretty self sufficient. Most enterprise OS X users aren't going to be particularly savvy - they'll need lots of help (like always).

    And finally, the cynic in me wonders how many of those Macs are really running XP / Vista under boot camp while at work... Not that there is anything wrong with that. You'll look cool and all, even if you're running the same dorky programs as everyone else.

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  9. Crests and troughs by Hojima · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This isn't surprising. We've seen this behavior many times and it's called the oscillations of business. Just wait until they are the dominant force in the market and it'll all go downhill from there. Just like Microsoft. They've already made the mistake of not allowing open source software on the iPhone (one of the many reasons I don't get one). That's the one that's pissed me off the most, but it certainly isn't their only mistake. I'll never be a mac fan since I'm so used to tactile response anyways.

  10. Re:Hmmmm by calebt3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    People are pretty trusting of the repos most of the time.

  11. It's not Vista; it's W7 and beyond by StreetStealth · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Perhaps it's just IT people looking down the road and seeing the same thing some end users saw with XP:

    Like many others, I didn't like where it seemed Microsoft was headed with Product Activation and DRM and decided that long-term, I would attempt to migrate away from Windows. I might not have as quickly if I hadn't gone into "creative services," but that was my thinking at the time.

    I can imagine IT departments are now experiencing a similar sensation: Even if Vista (like XP) isn't a terrible thing in itself, it points toward a rather unpalatable future for the platform.

    There is a slow but undeniable exodus underway. To Ubuntu and Fedora go the more technically focused, to MacOS go the more user-focused. Windows' arbitrary relevance becomes ever slightly moreso every day.

    --
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    1. Re:It's not Vista; it's W7 and beyond by wass · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There is a slow but undeniable exodus underway. To Ubuntu and Fedora go the more technically focused, to MacOS go the more user-focused.

      Not necessarily. I left Windows for Linux a decade ago, but switched from Linux to OS X a few years ago. I am not alone, I know many scientists and even whole science departments switching from Linux (or SunOS) to OS X. It has nothing to do with the presence or lack of technical skills, but IMHO it's just a better OS to get shit done on. And obviously many other technically-skilled scientists agree.

      --

      make world, not war

    2. Re:It's not Vista; it's W7 and beyond by UttBuggly · · Score: 2, Informative

      Absolutely agree with what you say, most especially "...a better OS to get shit done on."

      I've used everything; Apple II and III's, every Mac model there is, the Lisa, and NeXT machines from the Steve. I think at every strata of the evolution of Apple, there was a focus on getting shit done. And making the user interface better.

      I'm not a fan of Apple or a Microsoft hater. I am most certainly a fan of things that work and work well.

      That's why I've started switching the family to Macs. After the first MacBook, for the son in college, I had no takers for Vista, even though they would HAVE to get a new machine to run it. Everyone will replace their current laptop and/or desktop with a Mac as budget permits.

      At work, not so rosy, by a long shot. I think it's more a function of overcautious upper IT management than the Mac isn't a viable alternative to Vista. We have about 40,000 PCs and laptops to support, so this does require some serious thought. Do we replace the estimated 25,000 machines that flat will not run Vista and upgrade a fair amount of the remaining 15,000, plus the cost of Vista itself? How much will ancillary impacts from upgrading other services like Remote Management, AV, Windows Update, and so on cost? User training costs? Will it break anything like internally developed applications?

      The light at the end of the tunnel is that the numbers ARE scary, so we're doing studies with various Linux distributions and there's some serious thought to bringing Macs in. Linux looks good from the hardware standpoint as virtually all the current PCs in service can run Linux. The Mac looks good from a support overhead standpoint, which is not insignificant with the number of users we have.

      I'd be happy with either at work myself. I have an old ThinkPad T-23 (a Celeron CPU) with SLED 10 on it now. It's good.

      Still, I have 4 machines at work and I wouldn't mind trading them ALL in for Mac replacements!

      --
      I am my own gestalt.
    3. Re:It's not Vista; it's W7 and beyond by flnca · · Score: 2, Insightful

      it's just a better OS to get shit done on. And obviously many other technically-skilled scientists agree. For users, it might be a great OS, but for developers, it's not. There's no easy-to-use documentation browser for developers, like they exist for Windows and GNOME / KDE. The documentation itself is often far better, but finding it can be a real pain. Apple's XCode IDE is a nightmare to use, because the text editor has a single pixel wide text cursor that cannot be customized, and the keyboard layout is non-standard, and cannot be customized either. I've bought a Mac once because I intended to start developing for it, but now I'm running OpenBSD on that box.

      What I don't like about MacOS X is, that it is intentionally dumbed down for sake of user-friendliness for the computer-agnostic, but there's often no way to get customization if you do need it.

      Using a Mac is expensive, and I simply expect more from it than just a nice-looking user interface.
    4. Re:It's not Vista; it's W7 and beyond by ceoyoyo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Strange, I had the opposite experience. I remember coding in Visual C++ and desperately looking around for a stupid MS documentation CD to find out that the university hadn't renewed their very expensive subscription.

      Coding on the Mac? Pop open the browser of your choice, navigate to developer.apple.com/documentation and type in what you'd like to know. Not only are the class references there but they also have conceptual documents and tutorials that are actually helpful.

      I agree I don't particularly like the documentation browser built into XCode. So I never use it.

  12. OSX in 2008 by Artuir · · Score: 5, Funny

    This is the year of OSX on the desktop!!!!11

    *cough*

    1. Re:OSX in 2008 by node+3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Could the year of desktop linux be the year of OSX + 1 Probably not, given that every year since at least 2002 (with the release of version 10.2) has been an actual "year of OS X on the desktop".

      However, your overall point isn't far off. Once people switch to the Mac en masse (if you consider US consumer market, which is where "the desktop" is most important, this has already begun), they will no longer look at Windows as being a necessity.

      The thing that is keeping Linux from being the "year of OS X + 1" is that there's no compelling reason for most people to switch to Linux. OS X beats it on usability and compatibility, and the arena where it excels, which is being free and being very technologically accessible, just isn't that important.
  13. I've been programming on a mac for years by vrillusions · · Score: 3, Interesting

    My "introduction" to macs--aside from school--was at my current job. I am a web developer/it manager. I first thought it was odd everyone used macs but after I got used to it I'm glad. The amount of questions asking about their computer locking up or not being able to print or something is practically nil. When something doesn't work it's usually something more significant than just the windows "shut down and reboot" mantra.

    EVERY employee uses a mac. From graphics designers (of course) to the IT department to accounts receivable and billing. From an IT standpoint being able to have a native terminal to ssh to remote servers is very handy. Yes I know of cygwin but terminal on mac is just there. We literally only have two windows machines only because of some software that only works on windows.

  14. You're kidding, right? by Santana · · Score: 3, Interesting

    They've already made the mistake of not allowing open source software on the iPhone (one of the many reasons I don't get one)

    Are you being sarcastic? Nowadays it's difficult to say. I have just finished to watch Steve Jobs' keynote about the brand new iPhone SDK, which is a heck of a platform for development, either proprietary or open source, and the App Store that will let you distribute your application to every iPhone on Earth.

    I'm not sure what's wrong with those Mac bashers around. You know, just stating to not want to be a "Mac fan" because you like tactile response is stupid for itself. Intel based Macs running UNIX plus open source software and a great set of development tools is anything a geek that respects him/herself wants to get his/her hands on.

    And before anybody mods me down, I'm not a Mac fanboy. I've been programming for Windows, Unix and Unix-likes (Linux, OpenBSD) on Intel and SPARC for years and never owned a Mac until recently (two weeks ago aprox.) and I'm amazed. I'm currently writing this message from Safari while whatching my terminals (cloning repositories, building software, the usual stuff.)

    --
    The best way to predict the future is to invent it
  15. Mac support in the Enterprise? by moofrank · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The article asserts in a couple of places some very amusing things: 1. Apple SAYS that it integrates cleanly in Active Directory environments. (In our experience, it doesnn't). 2. "That Apple Enterprise support doesn't exist is a popular myth." (We actually paid for Apple Enterprise support and work in a major metropolitan area. We and our VAR could actually never manage to locate Apple Enterprise support. I'm calling myth.) Admittedly, I'm writing this on my Macbook Pro with an Iphone in my pocket. Supporting a handful of macs is easy. Supporting hundreds is a major pain.

    1. Re:Mac support in the Enterprise? by bartron · · Score: 2, Informative
      AD works but is is no-where clean. It doesn't support DFS (not the way we set it up anyway). The only thing that comes close is Thursby's AdmitMAC product which does the job but likes to own the computer in the process. To me that's just an invitation for instability and we'd be back where we started.

      I love my macs but they are indeed a pain to get working properly in a mixed environment.

    2. Re:Mac support in the Enterprise? by Johnny+Mnemonic · · Score: 3, Insightful


      I cleaned up forty Macs that were all infected with dozens of worms and viruses.

      You're a flat out bald faced liar. "Dozens of worms and viruses" simply don't exist on OS X, and especially not in the wild. Maaybe you're cleaning up old OS 9 installs, but even then it's pretty hard to imagine--and by now that's a 10 year old OS. More likely is that you're a Microsoft shill desperately trying to prop up Vista, and aren't even aware that a whole other world of possibility exists. In this case your ignorance of reality makes you easily identifiable, and your employer should get their money back.

      OS X is theoretically susceptible to a virus and worm--no doubt. However, the fact is that none have yet been written. Someday OS X may be targeted and your story will be more believable--but until then your post isn't worth reading past the first line.

      Liar liar pants on fire.

      --

      --
      $tar -xvf .sig.tar
  16. Re:I honestly donâ(TM)t want more market shar by HeroreV · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Hence the hate for Ubuntu, for allowing normal users to be comfortable with Linux.

  17. The ghost of Vista by Santana · · Score: 4, Informative

    I was thinking of buying a laptop some weeks ago but I was reluctant to use Vista. That was the initial thought that led me to buy a MacBook.

    I use Windows XP at home and OpenBSD at work as desktop OS. I can't stand Linux as a desktop OS. Mac OS X seems like a perfect merge of a great GUI and the power of UNIX, running on solid, proven Intel hardware. With a Mac I have the best of both worlds.

    --
    The best way to predict the future is to invent it
    1. Re:The ghost of Vista by kklein · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's basically the call I made as well. It's like Linux, but without the sucky parts of Linux.

  18. You asked to be corrected... by thestuckmud · · Score: 4, Informative

    Don't kid yourself. Linux is potentially as vulnerable as other operating systems. Reports say that rootkitted linux machines serve as botnet controllers. Keeping linux machines patched for security is necessary, too.

    1. Re:You asked to be corrected... by starfishsystems · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Linux is potentially as vulnerable as other operating systems.

      Here you've made one of those foggy claims that sound authoritative but carry essentially zero meaning. Let's put the discussion on a more solid footing.

      It's unlikely, under any meaningful measure, that Linux is exactly as vulnerable as any other operating system, and of course it's nonsense to suggest that its vulnerability would change with popularity. Not that you said that, but it happens that many people drag that red herring along right about now, so let's dispense with it too.

      On an architectural basis, you could claim that the degree of vulnerability of a given Linux distro will be similar to other Linux distros or other Unix variants, and you could point to what set of design decisions contribute to the relative strength or weakness of these classes of systems in general. That's a very useful and clarifying basis for debate.

      Or you could compare a specific point of design or implementation between two different systems. But it's meaningless to just wave your hands and claim that one entire system is or isn't "more secure" than the other, without establishing the terms of reference. For example, a system which allows "default permit" to operations such as software installation, or which fails to separate privilege, is less secure with respect to these design principles than one which enforces privilege separation and "default deny" on operations which might compromise security.

      Another approach is to look at incident statistics. Normalized per unit of a given operating system in the field, how do systems rank in terms of actual compromise? To date, Linux ranks below OpenBSD but vastly above Microsoft Windows.

      I agree with your point that you can't just sit on your hands and expect any given system to be invulnerable. You have to be vigilant. It doesn't follow that all systems are therefore created equal.

      --
      Parity: What to do when the weekend comes.
  19. Re:Just goes to show ... by dorzak · · Score: 3, Informative

    Not likely since Rush Limbaugh is a Mac user.

  20. Here too... by adnonsense · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Small company, newly formed IT/development department. Turned out all four of us preferred OS X as our desktop environment, and it didn't take long for the boss guy to convince himself he needed one to (and very happy with it he is). Just found out one of the sales people has come over to the dark^H^H^H^H Jobs side, and the external consultant guy has a MacBook Air (which is a subject of constant ridicule as we are Ethernet-only for reasons of paranoia).

    (Personally I need a laptop which runs an internationalized UNIXy environment and plays well with the hardware without me having to spend time fiddling about with the OS , and OS X has saved me a great deal of time in this respect).

  21. Re:"free software" by Telvin_3d · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Just wait until something breaks. Something minor like a fan. And taking to the nearest Mac approved retailer, handing to the actual tech who will fix it and picking it up the next day. No phone calls to automated systems. No shipping.

    Happened to my MacBook. Was completely my turning point from 'this is kind of nice' to 'from my cold, dead hands'.

  22. Apple, make a freaking laptop dock already. by bartron · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'd love to roll out more Mac laptops but the main thing holding it back is complete lack of a first party dock connector for the portables. Not everywhere is the same of course but where I work it's an OH&S problem with loose cables hanging about the place.

    I know about bookendz and they might be ok but it's hardly an elegant solution and the aesthetic is so non-Apple. I would jsut like a single connector on the bottom of the Mac that connects to a dock that has all my shit permantly plugged in to it...is that so hard?

  23. you know... by luigi517 · · Score: 2, Funny

    they only work better for the same reason that its hard to drown in the kiddie pool...

  24. Richard Stallman need not apply here. by NDPTAL85 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I know this is dangerous to say on Slashdot and all but here goes.

    You are VASTLY overstating the importance of open source on a mobile platform such as the iPhone. Its a friggin $500 phone. You think the masses who are buying it are going to care if they can use open source software on it or not? The big draw of the device is its interface and ease of use. You can release zero cost programs via the AppStore if you want and to the user thats really all that matters. The vast majority of the computing using public can't program to begin with so whether its open source or proprietary is wholly irrelevant.

    --
    Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
  25. Re:Software mostly equals digital office supplies by MBGMorden · · Score: 2, Insightful

    But still with so much software resembling something you could buy from Staples 20 years ago, it kinda takes the "righteousness" out of the whole free software movement. Shoplift something from Staples or Office Max and see if you still have the feeling you are a part of an important "movement". I think you win the Stupidest Analogy of 2008 Award. How can you compare using free software with shoplifting (stealing)? In one case the "owners" are giving you permission to take what you want, in the other you're taking it against their will (and breaking the law).

    Personally, as a programmer, I write stuff in my own time because a) it keeps me in practice in languages and application "genres" that I don't get to really work with in my professional career, b) the projects look good as professional samples of my work, and c) most importantly, because I like to do it. It's a special type of weasel that instantly seeks compensation the instant that they believe they've enhanced the life of another person in any way.
    --
    "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
  26. Re:More IT Jobs require Mac skills by symbolset · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm a recent Mac switcher with years of Windows experience. It's not all that easy to get OS X to work and play well with Active Directory and Windows networking (or maybe it's the other way around). IT lets me play with the Mac because I'm pretty self sufficient. Most enterprise OS X users aren't going to be particularly savvy - they'll need lots of help (like always).

    I'm pretty new to the Mac too, after a 20+ year hiatus from the Apple world. You know what? Figuring this out took me all of a day. Figuring out how to do broadcast imaging using Apple's tools took most of three days. In short, people aren't as dumb as Microsoft needs them to be.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  27. What comes around, goes around by calstraycat · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think to understand the renewed interest in Macs in enterprise requires a look how IT departments got themselves into the sole-sourced software platform pickle to begin with.

    The story begins with IBM doing a piss-poor job of protecting their hardware. It seems everyone forgets that IBM had every intention of locking up its hardware just like Apple did with the Mac. But they blew it. Some guys cloned the hardware and the commodity PC was born.

    Corporate IT departments, believing that having multiple hardware sources was key keeping down capital expenditures, rejected the Mac because it was sole-sourced. They opted for the commoditized IBM-PC hardware platform. But, as they preached the importance of having a diversity of hardware suppliers, the same IT departments insisted that it was imperative to "standardize" on a single operating system and a single office suite. "Standardize", in this context, is just a different way of saying sole-source.

    In other words, the dogma was (and still is, for the most part) that computer hardware must be multi-sourced and software must be single-sourced.

    That strategy has bit them in the ass. It turns out sole-sourcing your software platform is just as probamatic and expensive as sole-sourcing your hardware platform. Having put all their eggs in Microsoft's basket in the persuit of minimizing hardware cost, IT departments are now stuck in an ever-deepening hole of increasing and recurring licencing fees to a single vendor. And they are completely powerless because they single-sourced their software platform lost all leverage with their supplier.

    Perhaps some IT departments are finally questioning the wisdom of that strategy and are bringing some Macs into the mix.

    Apple finally has a viable alternative, mostly because OS X is mature now and they've to x86-compatible hardware. Combine that development with the continuing creep of web-based alternatives to embedded applications and you've finally have an escape route from sole-sourced software platform hell.

    A wise CIO, in my view, would take advantage of this opportunity by moving to a more heterogeneous computing environment. Re-introducing platform competition in the corporate computing space is the only way for IT departments to regain pricing leverage with Microsoft. It will cost a little more up front. Mac hardware is more expensive. But, that extra upfront cost will be more than offset by the gains from being able to exert price pressure on Microsoft.

  28. Re:More IT Jobs require Mac skills by kamochan · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You can cite me: our company has moved 80% mac since 2004. That resulted in 50% cut of IT support personnel, because there simply isn't that much to do. And 80% of the work for the remaining IT support personnel is dealing with the remaining 20% of Windows installations (most of which are a few experts' desk/laptop machines).

  29. Re:"free software" by kklein · · Score: 3, Interesting

    My MacBook's HDD died about a month ago (there may have been a bit of abuse that triggered it--I don't put my backpack on the passenger seat anymore) and after troubleshooting it, called it in. The tech didn't waste my time with stupid crap; he just asked a couple questions and sent me a box. It got there Friday evening after work.

    Sunday morning, before I had even made coffee, it was back with an upgraded HDD, no questions asked.

    I missed one day of work with it. I was back at work on Monday, ready to go.

    I was an Apple fanboy back in tha day, then I was a mean vilifier of the Mac, and now I have sold all my PCs and have a 100% Mac house.

    You don't notice how bad the user experience on Windows (or even worse: Linux) is until you notice that your computer hasn't done anything remotely annoying for a week--and that you never turn it off, just put it to sleep.

    Granted, naysayers will point out that it's a proprietary system that you can't just get any old hardware for, but that's actually its strength. MS can't keep up with the driver issue, and Linux developers most certainly can't. But I still can throw any SATA HDD or PATA DVD drive in my Mac Pro, and I just put a fanless cooler on my video card today. I run all my Windows-only stats stuff under Fusion with no noticeable performance hit, and the thing works like a UNIX machine on a network (i.e. correctly and easily).

    I am not a fanboy, I don't think. I made an educated decision to buy a Mac, and it has been really nice. Not perfect. Far from it. I can't stand Apple Stores (pretentious, my god, pretentious). But I am really glad I switched.

  30. Re:I honestly donâ(TM)t want more market shar by Lars512 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Perhaps another take is that some of Apple's practices, which work fine with their current market share, would be considered draconian if they were the dominant vendor.

  31. Re:Hmmmm by flnca · · Score: 2, Informative

    I have a mailbox full of Mac exploits. Want some?? ;-))

    They're easily identifiable by attachments with Mac file extensions.

  32. Re:More IT Jobs require Mac skills by theurge14 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It has never occurred to me until your post that Macs may be resisted in the enterprise due to job security.

    Somewhere the Maytag man is yawning.

  33. Re:I honestly donâ(TM)t want more market shar by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 2, Interesting
    They are already draconian. The only people who don't consider Apple's practices to be tyrannical are Apple fanboys and people who don't know or care about anything beyond whether or not their computers gets them to Facebook/Myspace/whatever.

    In reality, though, Apple could never keep a dominant position for long, at least not with their current practices. The word "antitrust" comes to mind...

    --
    Palm trees and 8
  34. Make that two of us, Apple needs competition by theolein · · Score: 5, Insightful


    My thoughts exactly, and it doesn't have anything to do with elitism. This will be a long post, so please bare with me.

    First, a Disclaimer: I am a sysadmin in a shop that uses mostly Macs, and a few Windows Machines, and I've been using Macs since 1990 and OSX since the first public beta in 2000.

    Second, Apple, like anything or anyone else, is as vulnerable to the abuse of a powerful position as, say IBM was in the 70s and 80s, and Microsoft has been up until now. Apple has already started showing signs of that abuse, which I'll now point out.

    Third, Apple originally touted OS X as a very open Unix like variant. They had all sorts of technologies that were there to draw developers and Windows users to the platform. Built in Java and C/C++ APIs as first class development language along with Objective-C. As Apple became more comfortable with their position and had less fear of Developers being unwilling to move to the platform, the first dropped Java as a first class language (no more Java-Objective-C API bindings) two years ago, and last year dropped the C/C++ API's further development.

    The net result of this is that if you want to develop a native 64 bit GUI application on OS X, you must use Objective-C. ObjC is a fine language, and now has Garbage collection, amongst other things, but it is very very difficult to port ObjC applications to other platforms. In a way, it's like Microsoft's .Net, except that there's not even an ObjC Mono to counter it.

    This means huge costs of major software developers who have, for the most part, been developing in C/C++. Microsoft Office, Adobe CS3, Maxon Cinema 4D? They're all C/C++. There will be no 64 bit version of Adobe CS4, the next CS iteration, for OS X, Adobe has said. It will literally take them years to port their code base to ObjC. Personally, I wonder why they bother. Given that the Ubuntu Linux desktop is now very smooth, is getting fantastic reviews all around the net on mainstream publications, It would be a perfect time for Adobe and others to port their apps to Linux (with far less effort and far lower cost than porting to ObjC). Putting some of the money saved into a major marketing push for Linux would help the uptake.

    It would also scare the living hell out of Steve Jobs (apart from making him go off on one of his major Ballmer-esque tirades again) and, it would force competition on Apple, which Apple seems to think is now unnecessary due to the major fuck up that is Windows Vista.

    Fourth. Apple is almost wholly dependent on the final opinion of Steve Jobs. That is often very good, as the man has a sense of taste, unlike Steve Ballmer, who doesn't, but, because Steve Jobs is only human, that sometimes results in extremely poor decisions like the OSX 10.5 Leopard Desktop and GUI design. The default galactic image background is very bad for designers who need a neutral background to work on. The fact that Apple made the default Dock in 10.5 a weird faux 3D thing that is very difficult to use due to the changes, making it often very hard to see what applications are running. The new pop-up folders in the Dock are next to useless for most things, and the translucent Menu-bar could have only been a Steve Jobs decision, driven, like the 3D Dock by the perceived need to compete visually with Vista. Apple only offered changes to this when users rebelled in outrage.

    Fifth. Apple's server offerings are to a large extent just wrappers around open source technologies. Their Open Directory is just a wrapper around OpenLDAP, SLAP, and a Berkley Database as data store. Their Email server is just Postfix for SMTP and Cyrus for IMAP. The problem is that due to the Apple GUI management bindings, it is next to impossible to customise these software packages. This is somewhat symptomatic of Apple's approach. They make some things very easy, but others very, very hard.

    Apple needs competition. Without competition, Apple tends to lose their solid grounding and become a bit more like Microsoft, given to market lock-in and arbitrary decisions that make no sense.

    1. Re:Make that two of us, Apple needs competition by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Fourth. Apple is almost wholly dependent on the final opinion of Steve Jobs. [...] The fact that Apple made the default Dock in 10.5 a weird faux 3D thing that is very difficult to use due to the changes, making it often very hard to see what applications are running.

      The Dock is, as always, the most obvious interface fuckup Apple has made, and boy did they ever.

      The NeXTStep Dock was brilliant. It's probably been imitated more than anything else but the Windows taskbar (let's face it, everyone wants a start menu now. Apple put more stuff into the Apple menu in OSX, probably due to just that.) Then they totally hosed it for OSX. If your desktop is somewhat full then icons appear behind the dock. You have to either hide it or lasso that icon with some other icons before you can drag it out. It also changes size from the center by default, making your icons a moving target. The Dock is 100% garbage, the implementation is crap, it is nothing but eye-candy and it's bad eye-candy at that.

      This is, unfortunately, pretty much the story of the whole OS. OSX is a boondoggle, we would have been MUCH better off with BeOS (seriously folks, the best objection to BeOS is that it isn't "truly" multiuser whatever that means, and who cares on a desktop box anyway?) but we got the cult of Steve Jobs and his amazing transforming NeXTStep instead. Now, it might be true that Apple would be gone without Jobs today, but I will go to my grave protesting Apple's stupidity in adopting the OS of yesteryear instead of moving into the future. They had their chance to advance computing, and instead decided to go with more of the same old shit we'd already seen. There is basically nothing new in OSX; everything cool in it was already present in NeXTStep, which was fairly peppy on a 25MHz 68040. MacOS prior to X, which does a tiny fraction of what NeXTStep does, was never as responsive on a Quadra as NeXTStep was on an '040 turbo slab. BeOS, on the other hand, kicked the shit out of MacOS 9 (for example) on a PPC Macintosh.

      For the record, I'm not a BeOS fanboy, I don't run any variant of it and I'm sure not buying specific hardware so that it will run properly. I already went through all that shit with Amiga and already got better. But I maintain that Apple completely blew that decision, from a technical standpoint.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Make that two of us, Apple needs competition by Wizard+Drongo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think the Dock thing is subective. A lot of people I talk to hate the Dock.

      A lot of people I talk to love the Dock.

      I fall into the latter category. I agree with the GP on the Leopard dock being annoying; hell I developed an app t change it from the default 3D to a more sedate and retina-pleasing 2D one.
      But I still like it, and consider it one of OS X's nicest GUI features. Hidden, with the icons on "zoom" mean I can have a tiny dock that I never see unless I need it, and then I can see exactly the icons I want, not the other ones that stay tiny and out-of-the-way.

      As for the BeOS thing, yeah, you're probably right. If they had bought BeOS, the same gui people would have worked on it to make it more "Apple-ey", which would mean you'd still have Aqua. Maybe they'd even of put a Dock in there, which I think would be awesome (an Aqua-like BeOS).
      But it would have been faster for multimedia which is a BIG thing nowadays (iLife anyone?), and the multi-user thing isn't.

      But, that ship has passed, and we've got what we've got: Unix.
      It's a good OS. Sure, maybe an enhanced version of BeOS would be better, but we can't say that now.

      Maybe, in some dark black-ops like basement in Cupertino, Apple are playing with BeOS still, planning to make it in the "next big thing" when (if) Unix starts to show it's age. Who knows...

      --
      The truth shall always be free: Boris Floricic is Tron.
    3. Re:Make that two of us, Apple needs competition by 644bd346996 · · Score: 5, Informative

      The Cocoa-Java bridge was dropped because hardly anybody was using it. There's no way it would have been cost effective for Apple to continue to update it.

      The "C/C++" apis you were referring to, more commonly known as the Carbon api, is a slightly sanitized version of the Classic Mac OS programming interface. They were old and ugly, and Carbon had to retrofit them with support for things like preemptive multitasking and memory protection. Anybody who considered Carbon as anything but a legacy api was a fool. (Yes, that includes Adobe.)

      You don't seem to be aware of CoreFoundation and Objective-C++, which provide C and C++ respectively with access to most of the Cocoa apis. But I get the feeling that you're deliberately ignoring the fact that Apple has added Cocoa bindings for Python and Ruby.

      And you definitely should have mentioned GNUStep, a portable environment that is compatible with OpenStep (from which Cocoa is derived) and has included many of the improvements from Cocoa. If you actually want your app to be portable, it is very easy to write it using GNUStep as the lowest common denominator. The resulting app can then be compiled and run on Windows, Linux, and OS X.

    4. Re:Make that two of us, Apple needs competition by iluvcapra · · Score: 4, Informative

      As Apple became more comfortable with their position and had less fear of Developers being unwilling to move to the platform, the first dropped Java as a first class language (no more Java-Objective-C API bindings)

      They had built in the bridge at great cost in the early years, and it was a major part of their developer push. You can imagine their frustration when no one used it; this is the Cocoa bridge, mind you, not the Java platform. People code in Java so they can write once and run anywhere, not so they can code platform-dependent GUI code. Apple thought having a Java bridge might drive people to write software that favored their platform, but Java devs just kept on using Swing and AWT, and generally ignoring the bridge, since it was platform-dependent.

      I think the nail in the Java bridge's coffin was that you couldn't do key-value coding in Java, the way Apple implemented it, because you sorta need duck typing to make it work. Objective-C can do this, Java cannot (though the Java people hold this is a good thing.)

      last year dropped the C/C++ API's further development.

      This is a tricky statement, as CoreAudio, the File Management APIs, OpenGL, QuickTime, Core Foundation, Core Services, and, hell, the Kernel API and BSD subsystem are all "C APIs" and a part of the OS X platform, and they are all continuously being refined and extended; though not all of them are 64 bit yet, this doesn't pose much of a limitation on OS X since you can call from 64 bit code into 32 and back "for free." The Carbon API, particularly the UI code, has not been rebuilt for 64 bit and may not ever, but it is not "unsupported" or "deprecated."

      Your statement makes it appear that coding in C on OS X is somehow unsupported, or that ObjC is the only Kool-Aid in town, and this is a flagrant canard.

      There will be no 64 bit version of Adobe CS4, the next CS iteration, for OS X, Adobe has said. It will literally take them years to port their code base to ObjC. Personally, I wonder why they bother. Given that the Ubuntu Linux desktop is now very smooth, is getting fantastic reviews all around the net on mainstream publications, It would be a perfect time for Adobe and others to port their apps to Linux

      They're probably in the same spot MS is, in that even they don't know how their code works any more, with the number of people they've had working on it over the years.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
  35. Re:More IT Jobs require Mac skills by theolein · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Nah, according TFA, you don't need Mac tech skills:


    After all, as Publicis' Plavin notes, Macs -- which cost the same as equivalently configured business-class PCs -- are cheaper to support because they are easier to support.


    To which I might add, "Citation Needed".

    I'm a Mac system admin. You're right and wrong. Macs tend to behave better under stress than Windows does, but there are many problems on OSX, a number of which are related to, very much as in Windows, legacy PPC stuff running under the Rosetta emulator. Apart from which, just as in Windows, if users are allowed to load their machines with crapware, they become unstable

    I'm a recent Mac switcher with years of Windows experience. It's not all that easy to get OS X to work and play well with Active Directory and Windows networking (or maybe it's the other way around). IT lets me play with the Mac because I'm pretty self sufficient. Most enterprise OS X users aren't going to be particularly savvy - they'll need lots of help (like always). Again, you're right and wrong. The Mac users in our company, which has become 80% Mac in the last two years, tend to manage the basic things much better than the Windows users, but they run into problems in the more complex things. I think the Mac is genuinely easier to use for beginners, but more advanced stuff, like LDAP binding, network homes etc are totally beyond their grasp, for the most part.

    And finally, the cynic in me wonders how many of those Macs are really running XP / Vista under boot camp while at work... Not that there is anything wrong with that. You'll look cool and all, even if you're running the same dorky programs as everyone else. The only Mac users in our company who use Windows, are me, so that I can provide support, and the users who have apps that only run on Windows, like CAD stuff.
  36. Re:Not impressed with Macs by wass · · Score: 3, Informative

    I can't help you out with the MDI thing, but here are two ideas that may help you become more productive with launching the apps you want (ie, less fumbling with the Dock and Finder).

    First - check out Quicksilver . It's kind of a dynamic shortcut to your useful applications, files, music, webpages, etc. Many techie OS X gurus can't live without it. There are even youtube tutorials for it.

    Second - if you want something akin to Windows-style start menu try this. Open the Applications window in Finder. At the top of the window there's a small icon next to the Applications window title. Drag that icon into the dock, to the right of the separator. With one click you now have instant access to your Applications directory.

    However, if that's not good enough, by right-clicking this icon instead it will show you all your Applications in a textual menu form, much like the Windows start button.

    If that still isn't good enough, you can make another Useful folder with links to all your commonly-used Applications, then put this Useful folder in the dock.

    --

    make world, not war

  37. Re:More IT Jobs require Mac skills by analog_line · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I do freelance support work for Macs primarily (though I deal with plenty of Windows machines as well), and I've helped switch several small companies partially from PCs to Macs. Generally, once the "how do I do this" calls stop, and the users get some familiarity, the new Mac people stop calling for months. The die hard Windows people I deal with also tend to be the least technically inclined, and generally I'll see them every few months to fix the results of their incompetence before they either run out of money in the budget to pay me to fix it, or decide that it's me who's incompetent and allowing all these viruses and spyware on their machine and go call the Computer Geeks at 2-3 times my rate.

    There are a few people that have made the switch, and end up just not wanting to change the way they've always done things (despite the fact that they'd called me in to totally reformat and reinstall Windows 3 times in the last few months) and who pitch a fit about it, but there just isn't much you can do about them.

    Plenty of the switchers I've dealt with run Parallels to run the one or two Windows apps that they just can't be without for whatever reason, but I haven't ever (depsite offering several times) had to install Boot Camp on anyone's machine to effectively switch them back. I have had a couple customers that who exchanged some quite old Macs for cheapass, low-end Windows machines, but that's was for cost reasons primarily, rather than preferring the Windows platform (and they're spending more money on my time as a result).

  38. Biggest Apple problem by dregs · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Want to know what the biggest apple problem in the enterprise is ?

    Just try leasing them, on a 3 year lease, and find out at the end of the lease theirs no replacement machines because apple has run down the channel due to a new product announcement, that is yet to happen.

    Happens on a regular basis to us, and then the new machines doesn't support the current release of OS X, so we cant deploy until we fully test in any case, as it only runs 10.5.2 or later, not earlier or some such rubbish.

    Apple is light weight and no where near enterprise ready.

    1. Re:Biggest Apple problem by dregs · · Score: 2, Informative

      We test, because OS X is not backwardly compatable enough.

      We currently have 1 enterprise product that DOES not work on OSX 10.5, but does on 10.4 fine.

      10.5 also broke our centralized authentication process. So if you run unmanaged Macs then yep its all fine, but that is not running an enterprise setup, that's just running a heap of Macs.

      Its not the same, and it doesn't scale well
      We more than halved our support calls times on Macs when we rolled out a centrally managed and supported managed operating environment,
      it would have been more, but apples last minute upgrades, and breaking of backward compatability
      now require significant more testing.

      We support Linux, Win XP, and OS X, and the linux and PC's are the cheapest to support, and have the best backward compatability.

      Just go to http://www.macintouch.com/leopard/compat.html, to see what broke and what only kinda broke, (and its not a small list), we were affected by a number of these issues.

  39. Re:More IT Jobs require Mac skills by laffer1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If so, they're not using them right. Macs are a pain in the ass to administer. They're great for end users, so you do avoid some of the stupid calls once you've answered EVERY question about why they are different than Windows. However, Apple's server product is an abomination. They change behavior with OS updates and you have to buy new versions to get security patches as they phase out after about 2 versions. If you consider the difference in the OS release schedule between windows and Mac OS, it is much more expensive for small deployments. If anything happens to your open directory setup, Apple will tell you to start over. If you're lucky, you were smart enough to export your users so you only have to reset the password for everyone! Combine with that fun things like php not having any modules that are common, lack of java 6, and random crashes with Leopard Server, and you have one of the most annoying products I can think of. The only useful thing about OS X server is the control over client systems. That is why you buy it. At work, we have a FreeBSD webserver because we couldn't get NFS mounting to work consistently between two xserves. The FreeBSD machine has much better uptime and it's a beater Dell Precision 1.4Ghz POS. In apple happy land, you're supposed to use dynamic AFP mounts for everything. It sucks when you're trying to serve web pages! Best of all, if a Leopard client connects to a 10.4 server, it sets an ACL on the home directory to explicitly block access by everything but the user thus blocking serving web pages! (if the user uses their webspace, it's mapped to a ~/Sites directory) I suggest anyone looking at doing Mac deployments consider buying a real server to go with it. It could be BSD, Linux, Windows Server, even Solaris. The problem with Macs is their inflexibility. It's great from a user perspective because it's hard to get into trouble, but when you're trying to work magic common on Windows or *NIX installs... Yes, I'm the Mac sys admin for a university computer science department.

  40. Re:More IT Jobs require Mac skills by Fear+the+Clam · · Score: 2, Funny

    Go on, tell us how long it takes you to copy a file.

  41. Great idea... by wondershit · · Score: 2, Informative

    Recently my company bought a Mac server and it is causing nothing but problems. For example you can't use the calendar unless you use the delivered directory service because it can't connect to existing ones. It also has to be the master server and can't be just a replica. Great. It's things like that that are just annoying. I wouldn't want to administrate such a mess. The business hotline is not better: "Well, I don't know anything about the server but do you know you can watch porn on the new iPod?". And I'm not making this up.

    Although I'd never use a Mac voluntarily I'm quite open-minded and think everybody should use the system that's suited best for him. Then again there are these Mac friendly decision makers that have to mess it up. "If it's good for me, it's good for you and if it's not good for you then it's at least good for me."

    And as a last quote... the poor guy that has to work with this thing: "There are things that work, there are things that work a little bit and then there is this Mac server."

    As a side note the server doesn't even look good or shiny or whatnot.

  42. I didn't say any OS came perfectly safe by symbolset · · Score: 4, Informative

    You saying that Windows can be secured does not diminish the fact that over a million Windows boxes are compromised right now. No useful system that's connected to the network can be made perfectly secure, but that doesn't mean that some are not better than others.

    Again, Linux and osX don't have any viruses in the wild. Zero. None. Not one. Zip. Nada. On these operating systems antivirus is to protect you, the feeble Windows client of the mail server. The Linux malware ecosystem is almost the exclusive purview of nation-states and their clandestine operatives, megacorporations and their industrial spies. Securing your linux box is important, but these people aren't generally interested in common folk.

    Windows has hundreds of thousands of viruses in the wild. These viruses support the financial interests of spammers, identity thieves, Nigerian scam artists, mail order fraudsters. Their ecosystem includes money launderers, extortionists, blackmailers thugs and hit men. There are incredible toolchains that take a found vulnerability and turn it into an exploit plugin for distribution by their botnets and compromised websites in mere hours. There are marketplaces where the proceeds of spying on your Windows box and the tools to compromise your windows are bought and sold. The ecosystem also consists of various members on the white hat side including antivirus vendors, penetration experts, firewall vendors, malware blockers and anti-phishing toolbars. Then there's the grey area group who sell with irritating popups products that do absolutely nothing, but give users a false sense of security -- opening them up to exploitation. These industries generates several billions of dollars a year in profits.

    No antivirus catches 100%. The virus infrastructure in a thriving stew that's updated minute by minute to stay ahead of the AV companies. For the most part the latest and most successful viruses are used. Once your PC is infected they pretty much can do anything with it they want to including:

    • monitor your keyboard and watch your screen
    • remotely control your PC
    • read all your mail and your personal files
    • transfer any file back to their mesh storage, or publish it online
    • use your computer to attack other computers
    • use your disk to store illicit materials (stolen data, porn including kiddie porn, warez, movies and music)
    • use your computer (if it's connected directly to the net) to serve the above data to other people for a fee
    • send spam

    They can do all of that without your knowledge or consent of course. They are actively doing this to over a million Windows users right now. Are you one of them?

    People can choose. The operating systems with no viruses or the ones with hundreds of thousands. It's their choice.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  43. Clarification by theolein · · Score: 2, Informative

    I know people and companies who used the Java-Cocoa bridge. A friend of mine was developing an online custom PDF report generator for financial companies using it. There were many such uses of the Java-Cocoa bridge, just not much in the way of client side publicly available applications. The problems my friend ran into, long before Apple decided to drop the bridge, was that the Java-Cocoa bridge was very buggy and reported bugs to Apple by companies that had developer agreements with Apple were simply not given any priority. One of the bugs in the J-C bridge was that the a PDF renderer (IIRC) implementation in the bridge had a memory leak. It only became obvious on many hundreds of objects, which was precisely what my friend was using. Apple knew about the bug as far back as 2003, yet never fixed it, right up until they deprecated the API in 2005.

    I am aware of CoreFoundation and Objective-C++. Since you mention it you are also aware that it is restricted in what it can do. Porting a large C++ application to ObjC++ is not that simple. You will need to rearchitect the entire GUI code and most of the backend.

    I am not ignoring the Python and Ruby bridges, and not the AppleScript implementation either. But they are not suitable for major client side performance dependent native applications.

    As for GNUStep, who uses it? Can you point out any major applications that make use of it? The best way to make cross platform applications has been though the Qt and WxWidgets toolkits. They both rely on the Carbon APIs.