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Java SE 6 For Mac OS X
wchatam writes "After a long delay, Apple has finally released a version of Java 6 for OS X. 64-bit Intel Macs are starting to see this pushed out via Software Update, but there has not been an announcement for when 32-bit Intel and PowerPC Mac users will get their versions."
Fuck Macs.
I found a great programming forum at http://www.programers.co.nr/. They even discuss Java.
-- (this is a sig) My Computer Programming Forumhttp://www.programers.co.nr/
Despite all the hoopla to the contrary, most major enterprises aren't even considering Macs outside of specific niches. Who cares aside from Mac Fanbois?
This is 5 days old news, and it's not that big news anyway.
I guess it could be a reason which makes it 64-bit only aswell, or they just considered the other platforms to old to care, but that kind of suck. Pretty normal in Apple-land to consider old OS versions obsulete thought so maybe it's true for hardware aswell?
(Never mind the Apple fanboys which says that a G3 are still future proof.... Or how macs don't crash (mine crashed today for instance, I can somewhat understand it since Safari usually pick up like 800 MB of ram and I only have 2GB and I had run Google Earth aswell. And if the machine runs out of ram you get issues. But what I can't understand is why Safari and Flash on OS X has to be such pile of shit so it needs 2GB to begin with.))
Dear Mac users,
We're very sorry that unenlightened members of our organization have ported this abomination to your platform. I'm quite sure that you understand that large organizations often have rogue elements working against the organization's best interests from the inside. I assure you that we're working tirelessly to end the Java scourge. In the meantime, we offer our most sincere apologies not only to the Mac community, but to everyone who has been forced to use a Java application throughout history. Hopefully, with your help, we can cleanse the world of Java and make computing a more enjoyable experience for all.
Thank you for your time,
Sun Microsystems
Mac: use once, faggotry forever.
What reaaly bothers me about Apple is that their support for anything that doesn't come out of Cupertino seems to be either designed to bait end users into moving to Macs than anything else.
When Apple brought out OS X in 2001, it was all smiles as the system came with free developer tools, a Java-Cocoa API that allowed you to use Java to write native Cocoa apps as well as a C/C++ API that also allowed you to write native Mac apps.
The problem was that the Java-Cocoa api was buggy from the start, apart from having very slow response on a, at the time, very slow user interface. Apple never fixed some of the worst bugs in critical objects (PDF objects for example), and finally, in 2005, dropped further development for the Java-Cocoa bridge altogether.
Last year, Apple dropped further development for the C/C++ API, which is having a major impact on big applications like Adobe's Creative Suite, which now have to move to Apple's in-house Objective-C api.
The overall impression that I get is that Apple is only paying lip service to anything that doesn't come from Apple itself. Apple was known for this in the 90s and there was an acronym for that: NIH -Not Invented Here. This is also Microsoft suffers from, in its Embrace and Extend strategy.
This had serious repurcussions for Apple in the 90s and I, as a long time Mac user worry if it won't happen again. Java6 was available for other platforms over two years ago, and now Java7 is even almost here.
Seriously, if you're a Java developer, is there any actual reason to use Mac OSX? You're far better off using Eclipse on Linux.
Some of us can't afford the newest machines. But we did pay for your 200% profit margin. Please don't forget us!
I know there are 32 bit PPC macs, but I thought that all X86 macs were 64 bit, since they started with the core 2 duo systems.
What models of macs came with a 32 bit OS? Or are they simply referring to mac os 10.4, which I believe had some 32 bit support, but didn't have all API's (like cocoa) available in 64 bit versions.
Maybe it's that I'm not idiot enough to use this kind of idiot proof setup?
Microsoft's support for Java on Windows theoretically ended in 2007, and if you want to run Java apps on Windows you go to http://www.java.com/en/index.jsp and download Java.
If you're on Linux and you want to run Java apps, you go to the same place and download an RPM.
On Solaris, of course, you go... guess where... and download Java.
Last time I installed it on FreeBSD, I used the Linux binaries in Linus emulation mode. There's a FreeBSD Java project now.
And Sun has recently announced that they'll be supporting Java on the iPhone.
But if you have a Mac, Sun tells you to bugger off and ask Apple.
I'm sure there's some good historical reason for this weird exception, but given that Sun's supporting Java on much smaller platforms than Mac OS X, wouldn't it be in Sun's interest to take on the Mac as well if whatever legacy business agreement with Apple isn't working out? If they did that, then possibly it'd even become possible to get up-to-date Java support for older versions of OS X.
How about it, Sun, are you willing to put your programmers where your mouth is?
"This update can only be installed on a 64-bit capable Intel Mac."
Apple has a history of denying new versions of Java to any previous version of the OS. (See Java 5 & 10.3)
Frankly I was amazed that Acrobat 8 Professional requires Mac OS 10.4 when it only came out 18 months after 10.4 was released. (But then perhaps Apple was paying Adobe a little bit under the table to help strongarm Mac owners into coughing up their $129 upgrade fee.) And of course Office 2008 requires 10.4 as well.
I have a hard time believing that the OS changes so fundamentally from one version to the next that apps can't be reasonably ported. I guess the only reason legacy versions of Windows enjoy so much support is simply because of the vast amount of market share Microsoft enjoys.
Makes me glad I use a free operating system and free software, still annoying as fuck supporting my users though.
Long term, Apple is probably doing what is going to be best for Apple.
I have been really heavy into Java development from the start. But you know what? I can see that Java desktop apps are always going to be a smaller subset of native apps. There just is not widespread adoption to date, thus the greatly diminished focus on keeping the Java->Cocoa bridge healthy.
As for the Carbon (what you incorrectly label C/C++ API's), well Apple said all along that the plan was to transition to Cocoa, and that Carbon was a bridge to that end. It's true that Adobe got rather screwed in particular in that at a crucial point in time they were told Carbon was going to last a few more years than Apple is saying it will now. But Adobe also had a really long time to work on a Cocoa port.... note that Lightroom has no issues in that regard. That was unfortunate for both Apple and Adobe, but in the long run it's going to make everyone switch to a single API sooner which means more support can go into maintaining and improving one API rather than two.
As a side note, just because Cocoa is more of an Objective-C API doesn't mean you can't easily call it from C/C++ code.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Alternatively, the FreeBSD port of Java seems to run on Leopard:
What's the current license situation with Java, anyway? I thought they had gone to a real open source license, but the interstitial license page for the "Mach 1" download implies otherwise. Is this something else that Sun could be doing a better job of clearing up?
I've seen a couple threads in various places complaining that with Java 6 is only on the 64-bit Intel Leopard somehow Java is still not a great platform for Macs. But I've got Java 1.4 and 1.5 on my 32-bit Mac Mini and Java apps run fine. What features are in Java 1.6 that are so critical? I heard something about applet loading being a bit more intelligent, that might be nice for client-side web apps, but is there anything else?
Because the effective number of important 3rd party Cocoa apps ~ 0.
Do you think they like that? Do you think they like that when they ask people why they are in java is that the frameworks are better, the tools are better, the language is better, and they get cross platform too?
And meanwhile they keep adding java features into ObjC. But as an old Apple hand used to say, you can dress a pig up in a pretty dress, but its still a pig.
Apple is responsible for providing java on OS X, not Sun, and it is so by Apple's choice
That's a little self-referential. All you're saying is that this isn't Sun's job because this isn't Sun's job. We know that, friend, we've known that for years. The problem is that Apple's support for Java has been lukewarm at best for years now, with Apple's Java generally coming late and only for the latest version of OS X... and the scope of their "OS X integration" has been scaled back as well.
My point is this: Apple really has no stake in providing Java for the Mac. They do it because there's demand for it, but it's not important to them, and while depending on them for Java on the Mac is not quite as daft as depending on Microsoft for Java on Windows proved to be, it's probably not a good idea for Sun to depend on Apple for the long term.
Which is why my message was titled "Why isn't this Sun's job?" and not "This is Sun's job".
How does the age of the OS affect anything? Shouldn't we only care about the usability / what the OS supports in that case? Why would we want a new OS if all it is is bloat?
Can you run ANY current OS X software on OS X 10.0? Most people run XP, who cares how old it is as long as it can do anything you want? The only kind of missing point in it which I can think of is lacking 64-bit drivers and DirectX 10. What more prevents anyone from using it?
I think it's ok to compare Vista with Leopard to thought. I would assume Vista would work ok aswell, have never used it. But I would have no need for it either since sort of no games supports Direct X 10 either so who cares? It's not like I'd miss out on much if I installed XP.
I don't see your point? So one add additional bloat on the OS just to make it heavy on the latest and greatest hardware or what? What does Leopard offer which XP don't? What makes it more acceptable?
If anything I can only see an old less resource intensive OS which does all you want as something GOOD, not as something bad.
I use to write java code and I was considering a used macbook as a laptop back in 2006.
.Net and Java I decided to stick with a PC.
Java is the most popular language in business today and it has surpassed even c and c++. WIth Windows supporting
Apple lost and even Linux is ahead with its must smaller marketshare because of its support for Java.
Apple is supporting more and more proprietary standards and is making life difficult for software developers. In the end we are going to see more and more windows based apps if it does not get its act together.
As much as I dislike Vista at least I can run frostwire, netbeans, eclipse, and VS.Net.
http://saveie6.com/
I read about this kind of behavior somewhere... something about subverting the goals/direction of groups/organizations.
The approach resembles the infectious spread of a virus.
One may join a group and slowly inject disruptive information into the group (eg. "he's really smart, BUT too into himself"... the part after the BUT is the viral payload... compliment and cut... compliment and cut...).
The idea is that over time, some other members of the group will (a) integrate the new opinion, and (b) begin making comments along these lines.
Slowly, over time, the character of the group changes, the goals of the group changes so as to integrate this new thought. The one(s) who introduced the payload may not even need to stay around at this point.
Like a virus.
A social virus.
A core duo is really cheap on ebay. The upgrade is not simple, but worth it. In my case I neede a VT-X enabled CPU for parallels.
Mini CPU upgrade
-- "As a human being I claim the right to be widely inconsistent", John Peel
that is a wise decision. Windows is premier development platform with all technologies available (from Java to gcc to .NET and all the other usual scripting languages). Couple that with a good Unix shell (like cygwin or MKS Unix toolkit) and you get the best of any platform.
I would switch to Mac only if your objective (lol) is to develop in Objective C for that platform only.
As the island of our knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance.