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Google Assists In Arrest Of Indian Man
An anonymous reader writes "After a Google user posted a profane picture of the Hindu saint Shivaji, Indian authorities contacted Google to ask for his IP address. Google complied. He was arrested and is reported to have been beaten by a lathi and asked to use the same bowl to eat and to use in the toilet.
Not surprisingly, Google is a keen to play this down as Yahoo is being hauled over the coals by US Congress for handing over IP addresses and emails to the Chinese Government which resulted in a Chinese democracy activist being jailed." Readers are noting that these are 2 unrelated cases — the latter is several months old.
I don't usually complain about badly written summaries, but this one made my head explode.
Well, I'm glad that google abides by the law here in canada. Clearly their motto of 'do no evil' is region specific; on one hand, I applaud their help in stopping crime, on the other hand, I detest the violation of privacy.
I guess I'm safe so long as my government respects my rights (because google will only go as far as the government seems deem 'right')
What happened to this man is despicable. However, we need to remember that Google is a company, not a judge in a court of law. It is not their place to decide if a court-issued subpoena is "worth" complying with or not, especially not in a democratic country (eat trolls, eat!). The big question is if they were responding to a court order in the first place, or the lean of some jackass in the government.
An old-timer with old-timey ideas.
US Telecoms are demanding immunity for assisting unlawful federal wiretaps.
More music, fewer hits
So when the FBI can demand personal information from places like libraries, and arrest anybody who even discloses that such a disclosure has taken place; and when the NSA can perform warrantless wiretaps on the USAmerican public; and when telecom corporations get retroactive immunity for aiding in those wiretaps... I don't think the USA is in any position to call Google evil for this. Get your own house in order first.
For having an outrageous law like the one this man was arrested for. Google owned or ran the site in question so they had to comply with the local law. I'm not saying I like it, but the blame should be shifted to India for having a law on the books that allows them to toss anyone in jail for posting in "vulgar language" about some politician. Democracy my ass.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. indymedia
The motto is not "do no evil," it is "don't be evil."
Not that it really matters, "evil" is a sloppy, ill-defined, and personally relativistic concept to begin with.
And of course, having an intent doesn't guarantee the ability to realize that intent, let alone to perpetually avoid any deviation.
And of course, loudly publishing such a motto doesn't actually mean that those at the top have any intention of living up to it. The perception of benevolence is what is really useful.
>> Well, I'm glad that google abides by the law here in canada.
Well they abide by the law in India and China too which is why they put people in prison.
As much as Google may toot the phrase "Do no harm" every business seems to have a sales pitch, then break it when convenient. Whether India is a "Democracy" (and this terms gets used misued) or not, the idea of contributing to someone's arrest and torture for doing nothing more than saying something the government doesn't like is against our definition of democracy is supposed to protect different opinions. (Although under Bush its questionable that it exists in the US anymore). Who would have thought MS would be the only major search engine to hold up a Google slogan. Yahoo, now Google. Regardless of the country you expand into, if you believe in something you defend it. Google, clearly doesn't. At least Yahoo and MS never made the claim.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge" - Einstein
Crime? You sure you want to word it that way?
What this man was convicted of may have been a crime in his country, but in the United States, Europe, Canada and most other places in the free world what he did would be protected under freedom of speech.
He was arrested for nothing more than saying something like "Fuck George Bush" or "Hillary Clinton is a stupid cunt licker" or "Barack Obama can go fuck himself" or "John McCain is an asshole." (There, equal opportunity.
Tastelss? Perhaps. Illegal? Not where I live.
My blog
But, I would have to say, when you actions lead to someone being beaten, jailed, and forced to use the same dish to eat and shit, then you can be sure your action was evil.
What the hell is wrong with the world?
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
. . . If he's convicted, he can be imprisoned for up to five years and may have to pay a fine up to Rs one lakh. Still applaud that? This isn't Google catching a thief or embezzler or rapist. This is Google turning in someone who said something that someone else who is powerful doesn't like.
More Twoson than Cupertino
Corporations are profit-seeking animals. If you expect any level of morality from them, you will find it near the stockholders' buy/sell margin or on accountants' govt tax deduction page.
They refuse to join the US in Iraq. You really think that's a bad idea? Pretty much every country involved in that "peacekeeping" operation now wishes they'd never got involved. Including the UK, and even the US. They hold a rally supporting the oppressed people who've been subjected to an invasion, abduction of their spiritual leder, systematic destruction of their culture and history. This is a BAD thing? And in your third link, to quote "...Delhi's insistence on using diplomacy to resolve the Iranian nuclear controversy". Heaven forbid we do something other than run in, kill a million of them and destroy their country. Topping it off with "everything's a commie plot". Nice one. You're either a very good tongue in cheek troll, or the type of american I'm most scared of.
Ah, you must be a Bush supporter. Democracy is great! As long as you vote my way.
Why should India waste their time, money and resources, and degrade themselves in the eyes of their people and other countries by supporting US/Western (I'm assuming that's what us refers to) foreign policy on Iraq, Iran and China?
The USA started the Iraq war, they can finish it themselves, it was a fucking disaster from day 1, and should never have been allowed to happen, India would be be imbeciles to join the US's failure.
Tibet is (currently) past of China, not part of India, not India's problem. The linked article is frankly irrelevant, few genuinely care if a handful of folks get in trouble over a minor march before the Olympic one, and the march or lack of it makes 0 impact overall.
Iran has nothing to do with India whatsoever, and saying that the fact that they are not especially bothered about a military solution to Iran is indicative of undemocratic tendencies is laughable. The story linked states that they prefer diplomacy to useless handwaving in the UN security council/US military interference, which is eminently sensible. Pacifism and discussion is better than killing of innocents, even if you don't personally approve of their government or society, etc.
Furthermore if you really think that Iran is going to make nuclear bombs and start trying to toss them at the US, then you need to turn the TV off. The leaders of Iran are *not* idiots.
There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face - Ben Williams
This is why I refuse to be an exit node.
I think this is irrelevant post, and there is no analogy between China & India. As a Indian this is my opinion. India is a fully democratic, secular and sovereign state, and people should not mix democracy supporters in China & Myanmar with anti social elements profaning about religious goods and creating communal tensions. People should understand that India have a large number of Muslims and christens and such incidents can create communal tensions, and is a danger for the whole country peace and harmony. We are already suffering from heavy terrorism from neighboring countries.
Homeboy ought to move to where you live. However, as he lives where he lives, the laws of where he lives were enforced, not the laws where you live. That, unfortunately, is the Way Things Are.
Never argue with a man carrying a water buffalo
would you prefer the title be "American Man" or something like that before you take it seriously?
I've got a good idea, let's take out all the Greek, Latin, French, Spanish, etc. that is in English too...
Oh, wait a minute. I think it would just be easier to add 'lathi' to my vocabulary.
The Unicode standard is over 20 years old. Why does Slashdot not support it?
the last occasion of note was some play about Jesus being gay that upset Mary Whitehouse (not the porn star, the other one) back in the 70s.
I am fairly certain that there were people trying to invoke these laws when they showed 'Jerry Spring - The opera' on BBC, which had similar content.
it's no place of Google's to assist in the application of unjust law.
It is no place for Google to make judgements on which laws are unjust and which aren't, it is not their responsibility. The only option open to them is not to do business in countries where *they* (asterisked because, 'who are *they* exactly?') believe the laws to be unjust. If they choose to operate in India they must follow the local laws and regulations. If they operate in a country, and then refuse to obey the laws in that country then their directors risk punishment under the local laws.
The real culprit in this case is the Indian government themselves, who consider it acceptable to treat their citizens this way.
Like it or not, this is a story about the laws of India and not about Google going anything "evil". See how long the thread lasts if it were about Google not pulling out of India because of this incident. What makes me sick is how many think this is a Google issue and not an Indian human rights issue.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
Approximately 99.99% of Slashdotters can describe the Prime Directive, and how it works in a land of make believe.
A significantly lower percentage sees how it would apply in current-era Earth.
what more detail do you need? the main is eating shit out of a bowl cause he posted a picture of a god online.
Whether or not that was the law where this person lives, that doesn't make it right for Google to have cooperated in this case.
MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
There seem to be three separate and distinct issues being conflated here:
1. India has laws that make it a crime to post "vulgar content"
2. Google provided information to Indian police in conformance with the law
3. Indian police are alleged to have badly mistreated a suspect
Be outraged about #1 and #3 if you wish, but I see no malfeasance inherent in Google's actions #2.
Information brokers - what Google is, essentially - are going to need to figure out what they're trying to do.
If they continually ACT as if they are responsible for the content that's connected by them, then they are going to be continually TREATED that way.
Nobody would even consider suing a phone book for the number they listed for a mass murderer.
Politicians (apparently across the world) don't understand that Google is little more than a well-linked phone book, and that despite all the cool stuff you can get, ISP's are not much more than a phone company.
This will continue to bite them in the ass until they say "Look, we're data-neutral. We don't give a crap what we index, if it's out there, we index it. You don't like it? You're going to punish us for what we link to? Fine, we'll just stop serving IP's from your country."
-Styopa
what more detail do you need? the main is eating shit out of a bowl cause he posted a picture of a god online. ...and it's all thanks to Google!
Google is to blame for complying with an oppressive, anti-human-rights law, just like Yahoo is. They've stood up to the American government, I'm baffled why they wouldn't stand up to the Indian government, but it makes them no less in the wrong. There are standards for human rights, no company should obey laws that violate human rights just to operate in the country where they are violated. India SHOULD be punished for having this law on the books, and the punishment should take the form of Google's refusal to obey its laws. If the Indian government tries a reprisal against Google, then the punishment should take the form of Google ceasing to do business there.
The only argument you can make against this is that it would hurt Google's bottom line, and that's no argument at all.
It's rare that you're presented with a knob whose only two positions are Make History and Flee Your Glorious Destiny.
If people start proving the character is impotent and most likely imaginary, then they'll lose their revenue stream! So: Let them eat shit!
You can't take the sky from me...
You're given the choice: "Shoot this dog, or we kill your entire family".
What do you do?
Stop pretending that right and wrong are so easily definable. In order to make the right decision, it's important to weight the positive and negative effects of your actions. EVERYTHING you do leads to some negative results. Driving your car to work increases violence in the middle east. Eating meat results in the killing of animals and the inefficient use of arable land. Eating soya and tofu leads to rain forests being burned to create plantations. BREATHING releases greenhouse gases!
Life is a series of trade-offs - the best we can do is to try and minimize our negative impact, while maximizing the positive.
His actions might not be so protected in Canada as you may think. Mark Steyn is up for a hate crime for denigrating Muslims.
My fellow Americans, let's restore the death penalty for child rapists. Let's do it . . . for the children.
I must add that after posting that a small bit further down in the same thread I found information that Shivaji wasn't an imaginary person but a real one living 1627-1680 and considered a hero in India according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shivaji
;)
;D
Just to get the facts straight. (And I'm willing to admit that Jesus as a person probably was real aswell, not as a son of god thought... And neither are god, regarding mohammed I don't know the story so I can't tell.) I just expected this Shivaji to be some sort of indian god.
I can see how behaving bad against an oldtime hero of the country don't make you popular, thought getting beaten with sticks are a little to much of a punishment for it. Some religous people probably think behaving bad against a godess are even worse, they are just wrong
In any case I think it's ok to bash all official characters, and most private ones aswell
Wrong analogy. It's more like, "If you want to do business with us, shoot that dog". We know what Google will do in that situation.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
...but English men aren't offended by being called "Englishmen" and Irish men aren't offended by being called "Irishmen?" That depends largely on who is doing the talking and who is doing the listening. Jesus Christ, if they have to ship a job that involves talking to Americans overseas couldn't they find some foreign assholes who actually know how to speak English? That's a rather ironic complaint for an American, don't you think?"Apparently "being obscene" is a crime in India"
Being obscene is a crime in most places. The only differences are (1) what counts as obscenity, and (2) the penalties.
"India has many laws that are rooted in the prude thinking that is pretty much common there"
The same can be said for many countries when seen from the viewpoint of more liberal ones. Inhabitants of much of Europe for example regard the fact that women in the US can be arrested for going topless on public beaches as laws that are rooted in prudishness that appears to be extremely common there.
I'm not going to change your sheets again, Mr. Hastings.
Boo, shit-eating Indians!
Sure, give the Indians a hard time... but when it's two white girls with a cup, it's an internet sensation. Typical xenophobia.
Also, Dude, chinaman is not the preferred nomenclature.
i could not say it any better. i am dissapointed in google and if they keep this kinda of crap up i will ditch using google. betrayal
I have no problem with how Google reacted.
If you know the law of that country, are a citizen of that country, live in that country, and violate that law, you should expect to be prosecuted by that country.
If you operate in that country, know their laws, and expect to make money in that country, you should obey their laws.
If Google disrespected a country's laws and morals in that country, they might as well disrespect every countries laws and morals. Just think, in the US, they can advertise for drug dealers (its legal in amsterdam), sell your children into prostitution(a common occurrence in thailand), or blackout news that doesn't help a certain party(china).
IMHO, to do no evil means you act according to what you promised to do and live with your consequences.
No no no, do NOT get all international on what constitutes democratic values and the philosophy where they derive from.
Sure, i too can get tolerant and accept that the Indian people have the right to institute in their laws things like hitting people for expressing their thoughts and then making people eat from the shithole.
There is nothing we can or should do to stop the Indians from doing whatever the hell they feel like with their own laws.
NOW, an AMERICAN company, HELPING a foreign government to do exactly what i depicted above, is NOT DOING A NICE THING.
They are doing an EVIL thing if we judge them from occident we can say certaintly and ethically say, we SHOULD say: fuck google and the horse they rode on.
Fucking assholes.
NO SIG