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Nanotubes "As Deadly as Asbestos"
Stony Stevenson writes "Certain carbon nanotubes may be as hazardous to humans as asbestos.
A paper to be published in Nature Nanotechnology suggests that inhaling certain types of nanotubes can lead to the formation of mesothelioma, a type of lung cancer commonly caused by exposure to asbestos.
"This is a wakeup call for nanotechnology in general and carbon nanotubes in particular," said Andrew Maynard, co-author of the report and chief science adviser to the Project on Emerging Nanotechnologies." I'm really hoping that those medical face masks get popular again. That's a look that should really be cyclic, like bell-bottoms and thongs. Update: 05/21 19:18 GMT by T : See also this page at the Nanotechnology Project, which features a link to video commentary from Andrew Maynard, the researcher mentioned in the above-linked article.
Breathing solids into lungs which are supposed to process gases is a bad thing. More at 11.
Not to mention the made for adsense spammers.
frank shoemaker would call this noise
Small molecules can get in the spaces between cells cause and cancer. That's not new, just ask benzene.
Sometimes I wonder if some scientists are so specialized they can't see the forest for the trees.
From TFA:
"Short or curly carbon nanotubes did not behave like asbestos and, by knowing the possible dangers of long, thin carbon nanotubes, we can work to control them," he said. "This is good news, as it shows that carbon nanotubes and their products could be made to be safe."
Thank god I can keep up my habit of snorting curly nanotubes.
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
I'm really hoping that those medical face masks get popular again
uh, where does CmdrTaco live that medical face masks were once a popular fashion item? I certainly don't remember that fad. Bell bottoms, I do unfortunately remember, but not medical face masks...
Professor Donaldson also noted that the way in which the tubes become airborne is not yet known.
"Short or curly carbon nanotubes did not behave like asbestos and, by knowing the possible dangers of long, thin carbon nanotubes, we can work to control them," he said. So... No rush, you have about 40 years to "developed conditions that precede mesothelioma".
But just to be on the safe side - if you got to use the carbon nanotubes make sure you use short and curlies.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
That's a look that should really be cyclic like bell-bottoms and thongs.
There are some people who should never be seen cycling in thongs.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
I'm really hoping that those medical face masks get popular again. That's a look that should really be cyclic like bell-bottoms and thongs.
You need full Respirator gear if you want to stop nano-tubes from getting in your lungs. Even then, with it being so small, your only chance of stop those tubes is if they are even long enough to get caught in the filter.
Thank GOD people have taken the initiative and developing nanotube filters.
The first thing I thought when companies started selling carbon nanotubes for research was that we had no idea how toxic this stuff could be. The most obvious question was what would it do to your lungs when inhaled. Not a big surprise.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
Because sometimes a scientific consensus can be well established on the "hoping we'll be really lucky" principle
Crap. Now this means more Lawyer adds on late night TV.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to think "profiling is worse than the slaughter of innocent people..."
I am jaded enough to think there are lawyers happy to see studies like this. I know some people who worked with asbestos a long time did get legitimately ill, but it was sad to see how false and exaggerated claims of illness were used to make money and ruin businesses. The extent of ploy might be suggested in the tort reform that took place in Texas:
"Why Doctors Are Heading for Texas"
"In sum, these reforms have worked wonders. There are about 85,000 asbestos plaintiffs in Texas. Under the old system, each would be advancing in the courts. But in the four years since the creation of MDLs, only 300 plaintiffs' cases have been certified ready for trial. And in each case the plaintiff is almost certainly sick with mesothelioma or cancer.
No one else claiming "asbestosis" has yet filed a pulmonology report showing diminished lung capacity. This means that only one-third of 1% of all those people who have filed suit claiming they were sick with asbestosis have actually had a qualified and impartial doctor agree that they have an asbestos-caused illness."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121097874071799863.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
It's wise to be careful with nanotube technology of course - and also to be careful with studies that give the legal types excuses to plunder.
I don't know where Commander Taco lives (or Subcommander Taco, either), but I know that those face masks are quite common in many Asian countries for at least two purposes.
:-( I like Beijing other than the smog.
1. to protect others from your cold, etc.
2. to protect yourself from smog in large cities, such as Beijing.
I've been to Beijing, and those masks were quite necessary.
Certain cellulose centitubes may be as hazardous to humans as a rabid badger. A paper to be published in Nature Centitechnology suggests that inhaling certain types of centitubes can lead to hemoptysis and accute asphyxia, a condition commonly caused by exposure to rabid badgers. "This is a wakeup call for centitechnology in general and wooden toothpicks in particular," said Andrew Maynard, co-author of the report and chief science adviser to the Project on Emerging Centitechnologies.
The situation with nanomaterials is the same as the situation with radioactive materials when that field was new. Having worked at Los Alamos National Laboratory, I can say that there used to be practices that were normal that are now regulated to hell, with respect to materials handling, dust generation/cleanliness, etc. Currently, I work somewhere else, and I work with nanomaterials all day long - and when I say nano, I mean powders with individual particles of about 5-20 nm diameter. All the personal protective equipment I usually don is nitrile gloves and safety goggles, and try to work with the material under a fume hood. We try to have safe work practices, but I have the feeling that in 40 years regulations will make you do all your work with them in gloveboxes/cleanrooms/respirators.
for this industry. The door has been opened to litigation. Meaning the products will all soon contain a "lawsuit tax" embedded into them. The choice of item they associated nano tubes with is nothing short of inflammatory. Asbestos? The live of lawyers everywhere.
no, all they had to do is find some group with some respectability to push stuff out like this. Even if it gets disproved in years the lawsuit opportunities have just expanded.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Long thin nanotubes, of course, are the ones that have the greatest potential for making superstrong construction materials.
... the dust and debris of worn out nanotech ... as a major theme. Nano-tight plastics and filters, collectively called "nanobar" (which seemed to be a generic term, not a brand name) were all over the place.
Neal Stephenson's Diamond Age had the health hazards of "toner"
Welcome to the Diamond Age, don't forget your respirator.
Now we know why everything with carbon fiber in it has to be transparent. It's so you can check those nanotubes are staying right in there. It's not about showing off, it's a safety feature!
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
Jesus H, people! Why not hand our next potential technological edge in the global marketplace over to the G*dd*mn trial lawyers before it gets out of the laboratory. AIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!
This is no different than breathing any fiber into the lungs. Everyone harps on asbestos but cotton is just as bad. That was one of the weird things about smoking, in the 70's they found that people smoking non-filters lived 5 years longer than the ones smoking filter cigarettes. Why, the fiberglass filter. The fiber got into the lungs. So they changed to cotton and got the same results. Ever hear of white lung disease? People who worked in cotton gins sure did. Any fiber or particulate in the lungs will cause scaring at best, enough of that is called emphysema.
Be careful what you breath.
Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
Nano-intertubes are lethal because the slow bit rate causes frustration which causes 'net rage among porn customers.
Giga-intertubes and Tera-intertubes are lethal for a different reason, namely, the sheer weight of adsense spammers compresses the customer's body into the density of a black hole or at least that of a neutron star.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.
that slows down progress and makes us scrap perfectly good solutions to age-old problems. Asbestos has been banned, and yet studies commissioned by the asbestos council have repeatedly shown that it is beer consumption by asbestos workers that have resulted in the phenomenon known as "flub lung".
Don't be fooled!! In latest studies by the carbon purveyors league, it has been shown that recent outbreaks of "fidgety-digits", or shaking hands syndrome have been related to the detergent used in bar glasses located near carbon plants, as well as the consumption of certain grains in conjunction with coffee.
Makes sense! After all, why would carbon hurt us! Carbon is our friend... diamonds are a woman's best friend, and you, yes, you are a carbon-based lifeform!!
Stop this insanity.
The problem is when said micro particle are supposed to be indestructible (an attribute shared by both asbestos and nanotubes). You got a constant activity of the immune system, which never manage to actually destroy the intruders. Only white cells die and newer cells come trying to clean up the mess, in an endless cycle.
This inflammation over-activity is what leads to the cancers.
But besides, there's nothing incredible there. If one creates a new material that is supposed to be indestructible, there are bound to be problems - both environmental and health - due to that fact that, yes, indeed, the material can't be destroy / got rid of.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
I don't remember at time when thongs were a fashion statement. Maybe I'm just not going to the right beaches.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Those buckyballs and nanotubes, what can't they do!? I mean, they don't just fight cancer. They can cause cancer too!
Companies and governments always try to hide the facts : very often, in such matters, human life is valued less than profits.
In the domain of asbestos and dust-related cancers, the facts were known even before WWII. In the 70's, it was well-known that asbestos can cause cancer. But companies kept using asbestos in anti-fire paintings.
I know the story because I was a student in the university of Paris-6 in the 90's. At that time, people were starting to die from asbestos-related cancers due to the asbestos in the ceilings, on the walls, etc., everywhere in the buildings of the university (the Paris-6 university has been built in the 70's).
But still, the authorities of the university, the government, etc., were trying to deny the facts.
And even nowadays, there are people who still try. For example, using asbestos has been forbidden in France in 1997, but due to corporate pressure, the Canadian government went to attack France in front of the WTO to obtain removal of this ban (of course, governments are all the same, and I completely agree that in other circumstances, France could have been the bad guy).
Finally, the whole Paris-6 campus has been relocated, and the works for removing asbestos lasted 10 years. But before this were allowed to finally happen, it took dozens of years lost in juridical fights to obtain the implementation of a very simple, very well founded public health decision. People died because of this. And the reason of such criminal delays is because the particular interests of the asbestos industry were pushed by a lobby, which succeeded in superseding the public interests of the french people during dozens of years.
http://amiante.eu.org/
So as far as nanotech is concerned, I have only one thing to say: beware !
I see what you did there
Chuck
Avenue, that is. In a little green plastic house with his pewter car parked on the square.
Invenio via vel creo
By the way, as far as the french and asbestos are concerned:
http://www.indiatogether.org/2006/feb/env-shipretn.htm
Chronology of events leading to the ban of asbestos in France:
http://www.asbestos-institute.ca/media/france/annex_1.html
While not RTFA is a fine slashdot tradition, moderating and not reading the comment is a sign that slashdot should go back to 5 mod points.
How is the parent a troll? Poor joke maybe...
Perhaps the unique characteristics of CNTs will permit us to engineer a vaccine that could be given to those likely to be exposed and allow a more effective immune response. For that matter the same may be possible for asbestos, though the more irregular shape of asbestos might make that more difficult.
In any case, medicine will no doubt continue to advance and will hopefully lend a hand in cases like this.
PS> I have no particular expertise in this area, and suppose I'll be shown what a blithering idiot I am forthwith...
Perscriptio in manibus tabellariorum est.
Small molecules can get in the spaces between cells cause and cancer. That's not new, just ask benzene.
/. insta-pundit who seeks only to find a way to sound smarter than scientists, first considers the possibility of something causing cancer based on their domain knowledge, then tests to see if their hypothesis is true.
Sometimes I wonder if some scientists are so specialized they can't see the forest for the trees.
Oh, so you would have classified carbon nanotubes as a definite carcinogen based on this "forest" view you have? A view that doesn't even understand how cancer is actually caused by these substances?
There's nothing inherently surprising about this. It's how science works. A real scientist, instead of a
Five years ago: Nanotubes may cause cancer.
Today: Research shows nanotubes can cause cancer.
So what's your beef again?
The enemies of Democracy are
Hope they encapsulate the nanotech inside your chips and motherboards with something
to protect you from breathing those fumes, when you go to change your HDD
I'm sure China will be among the first countries to regulate safety requirements for this.
The problem is in short carbon nanotubes. If they can finally figure out how to make them longer we won't have the health problems and maybe I can ride a Space Elevator in my lifetime.
I'm certain that free-floating carbon nanotubes inhaled are a problem. They might even be a serious skin irritant, and that should be considered. Comparing it to the hazards of asbestos, however, doesn't really fly, and here's why.
Asbestos is a fiber that is most dangerous when used in insulation or as part of an ablative surface like a brake pad. In the first case, it is specifically being manufactured into a loosely bound form so that it maximizes the number of small air pockets in between. In the second case, it is constantly being worn away by its designed use, resulting in small particles of it completely covering every surface near it.
Carbon nanotubes are being used for their structural strength or conductivity. Their value is derived largely from how tightly it can stay bound to the rest of the structure that it is part of. As a result, there are no imaginable use cases where more than negligible free-floating nanotubes would exist in an environment.
This is not to say that this isn't useful information. Although a USE case for nanotubes doesn't exist, there are definitely cases where conditions do exist for the particles to become airborne. Any time you use a subtractive process (buzz saws, lasers, water cutters, whatever) to shape nanotubes then you'll get particulates that need to be managed. Similarly, we should know better than to use nanotubes to build any type of strike plate. They probably wouldn't handle that kind of stress well anyway. Their MIGHT be a danger in high-vibration environments, but generally a thin coating would deal with that.
In any case, it's useful that a profit-centric organization will be informed that NOT taking precautions can be more expensive than the precautions, and this is always valuable. They can't say "but we didn't know!"
Wake up - the future is arriving faster than you think.
It's nice that this is finally getting published someplace it's going to get noticed. Talk at the conferences for years has been that multi-walled nanotubes kill mice if you inject them into the lungs (I actually met a guy who had done this experiment in Germany 5 years ago, and I don't think he was the first). For whatever reason, no one outside of the nanotube community had paid attention to those experiments, probably because they were done by physical scientists and not someone connected to the medical field.
The next thing we know is that single walled nanotubes do not cause asbestos-like effects, even when very long. It would be nice if someone outside of the nanotube community could confirm that.
I've worked with nanotubes of all types for several years (for electronics), and never worried about this stuff. They are very sticky, and if you don't purposefully try to suspend them in air, it is very hard to breathe in any measurable amount. There are some growth methods which do result in air suspended nanotubes (NASA uses this method to make their nanotube tethers), but it's easy to just pick a different growth method for most people. I don't know about nanotube reinforced materials, but for electronics, this is not a big deal.
Face masks are less effective than tinfoil hats at filtering smog. They are useless for filtering CO, O3, NOx, PM10 particles, or diesel particles, which are the dangerous elements of smog. Facemasks are designed to keep really big dust particles like sawdust out of your lungs. They are also designed to keep spittle from falling into body during surgery. They are NOT gases or fine particles.
-- QED
Actually the big reason that lawyers sue over mesothelioma cases is because the only known cause of mesothelioma is asbestos, so if a person has mesothelioma then the case is half proven, the lawyer then only has to prove who exposed the sick person to asbestos. Lung cancer isn't as useful. The defense only has to show that the sick person smoked 10 cigarettes 20 years ago and the lawsuit is undermined to the point of uselessness. If nanotubes cause mesothelioma and become widespread it is likely to make make mesothelioma lawsuits more difficult to litigate.
-- QED
just this weekend we decided to pull down some panelling in one of our rooms in the house and put up drywall... low and behold we find an interior wall insulated with Pink fiberglass and VERMICULITE! we are currently having it tested for asbestos but we looked on line and it appears about 80% of the world's vermiculite is contaminated with asbestos.... Needless to say it sucks big time, and its going to cost a fortune we don't have.... I just can't wait for the day when we discover 80% of the world's pink fiberglass is contaminated with long thin nanotubes!
When you cross the border into Nuevo Laredo, there will be dozens of pharmacies. Go into any of them and buy some Viagra for 15 bucks a pill. Don't worry it's real. They want to keep you coming back. Then, flag down the nearest cab and tell him you want to go to "Boy's Town". It's basically a whore ranch a few miles away. The cab ride will cost you about 10 bucks. When you get there, you'll find cheap booze in the bars and 25 dollar whores as far as the eye can see.
Now, Tijuana on the other hand, is a bit more fun. You want to cross the border (on foot of course, never drive into Mexico unless you know what you're doing), there will be a cab stand about 100 yards from the gates, and get a ride to "The Hong Kong" club. It's the best full contact strip joint in Mexico. You don't want to fuck there but it will definitely be a great warm up. It's only a mile or two away so the cab ride is only 5 dollars. When you get bored at Hong Kong, walk around the block to Adelita's. That would be the best whore house in Mexico with a smattering of bar and stripping. On the way between Hong Kongs and Adelita's, you'll notice about a hundred street whores in skimpy outfits trying to get you to go to a room with them. They will grab your arm, and make this weird shh sound with their mouths which is how they let you know that they are available as if you didn't know anyway. They are cheap at 25 bucks. You might go with one as an appetizer for what you'll find at Adelita's but if you're a once and your done kind of guy just save it.
When you get to "Adelita's", prepare yourself for the whore cornucopia. You will be in a large club literally filled to the gills with women. Probably 10 for every one man. These will be the girls you have always dreamed about. Most are in their early 20's. Some are a little younger, and for those into it, some a little older or a lot older. Anyway, you are guaranteed to find the one you like. The Mexican mafia hand picks them from the southern areas of Mexico to work for a few months, make some money and then sends them home. The price is a little high at 60 dollars for a girl and 12 for a room with a one dollar tip for the guy that cleans up after you. But, you will get this kind of quality at this price nowhere else guaranteed. When you see the girl you like, just walk up to her and say hello, a few pleasantries and ask if she'd like to go upstairs. Naturally, she'll say yes and five minutes later, you'll be in heaven. They don't all speak English but they all know what upstairs means.
And that's it. If your wife won't put out, this can at least take the edge off until you find something close by. Hope it helps.
If carbon nanotubes are supposed to be indestructible the why the Hell is anyone worried about it getting loose and out into the air?
"Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
I was afraid that it would be more deadly. Asbestos is not very bad if you don't start playing with it.
There is at least one big difference between carbon nanotubes and asbestos.
You can burn carbon nanotubes.
And there you have it folks, the birth of a new Slashdot meme.
They ARE out to get you simply because They are in it for themselves and they don't care about you.
Have you considered gay anal sex?
in a materials science class I had the professor told us one that under an electron microscope, or some such Seer of things we can not, ash from the paper of several cigarettes was examined. What was found was a structure mirroring asbestos. I didn't see it and I wouldn't know an asbestos particle if lodged itself in my lung sacs but it is one of those things that the more paranoid and alarmist of us can get e cited about today.
Cheers!
The problem is when said micro particle are supposed to be indestructible (an attribute shared by both asbestos and nanotubes).
Another problem is shape. The system is designed to process round solids, not very long thin ones.
Which brings up an Issue I've wondered about a lot...
Why isn't fiberglass insulation just as much of a problem as asbestos? Or IS it as much of a problem but not yet recognized as such?
And while we're at it: Is the level of risk from asbestos exaggerated?
There's reason to believe that lung cancer risk goes up, not linearly, but with something like the sixth power of the irritant exposure. So (as with radon exposure from uranium miners) extrapolation of homeowner risk from cancer rates observed in people who literally worked up to their knees in powdered asbestos would enormously overstate the problem.
Also: You have to take into account smoking - which both inhibits the action of the cilia that help clear particles from the airways and produces carcinogenic compounds that can be carried into the tissues and the cells themselves by the mechanical action of the sharp fibers - whether mineral or nanotube.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Technically, this means anybody, especially electricians, who have been around an electric spark, or arc, can file suit for mesothelioma. Seeing as how nanotubes can be formed from sparks and arcing, thid opens up a figurative buffet for Ambulance Chasers, a.k.a. personal injury lawyers.
Slimebags, notably James Sokolove, are going to be all over this like a pack of dogs on a three-legged cat.
As much as I am for knowing the effects of certain substances and such, I wish researchers would keep this stuff under wraps so Ambulance Chasers like Douchebag Sokolove wouldn't be able to lne their grubby pockets with millions of dollars in bogus settlements (read: extortion).
Knowing Google's lust for data collection, the Soviet Union is still alive and well inside the psyche of Sergey Brin....
TUBULAR, all those things that COULD have asbestos... I can breathe easier, now. Won't sniff my nose at who knows what might have asbestos...
And, as for your sig, I at first saw:
"--impeach, indict, incENERATE", hehehehe...
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Hmmm... let's make such a device...
The biggest cause of death is.... LIFE!
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
All we need to do is build nanobots out of nanotubes, which can capture rogue nanotubes in your lungs and incorporate them. Eventually, the nanobot will grow so large, it will cause discomfort and you'll cough it out. Then it's time to implant another.
Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis?
DRM: Terminator crops for your mind!
You missed asbestos cement ;)
Nanotubes "As Deadly as Assholes"
Look over their, it's a grammar nazi
I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned this yet regading the nanotube/lung hazard. Yes, size and shape of particles influences many lung hazards effects. But Asbestos is particularly dangerous. The May 2007 Scientific American has an article "Chromosomal Chaos and Cancer", which I found disturbing in what has been known for a century, but nearly forgotten, and not is well known: ALL MALIGNANT CELLS HAVE BROKEN CHROMOSOMES! Cancer is not simply broken genes, or insructions. The whole computer file system is broken! Also, asbestos is particularly dangerous because of the specific shape and crystal structure. It has long, thin crystals, small enough to get inside the lung cells. But much worse than that, the crystal spacing is such that it very easily gets entangled in the microtubules that pull chromosomes apart during cell division. The end result is that during the most vulnerable part of cell division, chromosomes become mechanically sliced in half, and this is a starting point for all cancer! I'm sure that indiscriminate inhaling of nanotubes is a bad thing. But probably only very specifics forms can be remotely as dangerous as asbestos. Perhaps none of them.
sorry, I called it by its Johns Manville brand name, Transite.
-- QED