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Tech's 10 Worst Entry-Level Jobs
Nicholas Carlson writes "These employers (Amazon, Google, Yahoo, etc), and the others hiring for tech's 10 worst entry-level jobs will look good on a resume someday, but for now the only good these jobs promise the world is the pleasant feeling you and I can share knowing we're not the ones stuck in them." The story is really obnoxiously laid out, requiring many many clicks to read very little actual content. Perhaps Valleywag could afford to hire another of tech's worst jobs: the web designer.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
'Sysadmin work is the new "tech ghetto," we hear.'
That makes me hope that their admins go BOFH on them.
Buncha pussies. This is the worst they've got? I had a tech job once cleaning up database applications for a "Department of Family and Childrens Services"...State social workers, basically.
First, the apps were a nightmare. Kludgy vb, massive sourcecode duplication...If the guy needed new functionality he'd make an edit to his solitary library (more than a meg of code including huge chunks of hardcoded html) save it under a slightly different name, and include it in the application. Effectively the same code linked in a dozen times, but each piece very slightly different.
Second, all the data was child abuse, spousal abuse, etc. Imagine working with that data for weeks on end, wallowing in that hell, and you really had to dig in the data because there were tons of inconsistencies.
Third, the "server room" was a closet with one tiny window, and a floor air conditioner/dehumidifier that had to be emptied by hand. The only tech job I've ever had where toting a 5 gallon bucket of scummy water out of a server room was a daily job. The real icing was the location; the server closet was right off the "visitation room"...The only way into the rest of the building was to walk through a room where child abusers got to visit their abused kids. Yee haw! I could go on about the work environment, but you get the point.
Fourth, the pay. Yea. I could have made more waiting tables. No benefits, and I was a subcontractor, and the contractor was so crooked he kept trying to pay me under the table, basically so he could pocket the chunk of my check that was supposed to go to the government.
That is a shit job. Doing sales customer service for fucking Google does not compare.
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
So, if it sucks so bad, why did he submit it and why did it make it to the front page?
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
quality is not a stated requirement for a story to be accepted.
Curb CO2 emissions: Kill yourself today!
I'd have to say that's not the worst entry-level job in tech by a long shot, ever since I started working in the wonderful area of, wait a minute some guy had to restart his DSL modem and needed me to hold his hand, tech support.
Seriously, working in tech support is about as low as it gets, you're expected to have college-level skills while everyone assumes you're some high school dropout who is barely capable of reading and writing, the pay is horrible and very few people really appreciate the work you do (most of the time the first thing you hear after helping someone fix a problem is "...and how are you going to compensate me for this?").
/Mikael
Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
Suddenly a no-name site with BAD content starts getting a ton of front page articles == paid slashvertisement.
Boycott. For great justice.
Uhhh... Yeah, that's pretty much how it is.
Imagine it the other way around, though; There have been many times where I have been on the phone to somebody like yourself, having already performed ALL of the troubleshooting tips you'll go through (having done them at least three times before on seperate calls), yet you still WILL NOT proceed with escalating a call until you've been through them ONE MORE TIME to make sure we've done it right.
Too damn right you get a mouth full, you insensitive clod!
Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
Here's my take from back when I was in IT.
Developing software can be really interesting, cool, challenging, stimulating, etc... but when the project it done, they really don't need you anymore - unless you work for a software firm. Even if it's a large company with a shitload of projects, eventually they'll be done. With the current trend of buying canned software and integrating (usually done by the canned software co.) there's less opportunity for he hard core developer.
Support, DBA, and other admin type of jobs.
Ghetto indeed! There' always something to be done and some of the scripts I've seen from you admins can rival much software I've seen. And if I could do it all over again, I would be going for an admin job/career. Why? Because there's a bigger demand for them and you're more likely to have a job. I learned the hard way that it's more important to have a steady job than to be chasing after the highest rate and the coolest project. Well, maybe in the beginning I would do that, but definitely later on, I'd switch to the steady stuff. And, invest my money a bit beter - save, save, save!
Just this old fart's $0.5.
Back in the 70's I was a student operator working on a campus mainframe. One time all the other operators happened to be on vacation at the same time, so I wound up working for 19 hours straight. Most of this time was spent changing paper on a printer every 15 minutes. Halfway through the night, the printer cover stuck open, so I spent the next eight hours listening to it clack away at 110 decibels. At least it kept me awake. I got $1.95 an hour for this job.
My sympathy for somebody doing phone support for Google is therefore quite limited. Boy, what a weak article...
Have you read my blog lately?
I'm wondering if they'd be working in Seattle.
Since when is $80K an "entry level job" in this industry?
And when is being a SysAdmin an "entry level job"?
Who writes that crap?
Seriously, what a bunch of wimps. News flash to all youngsters: yes, you may dream of running your own mega-billion dollar tech company, or coding for websites from your beach house in St. Barts, or covering Hollywood celebrities in your hot-item-of-the-moment blog, but it most likely ain't gonna happen.
What's so bad about most of these jobs? Sure, they all look kind of mundane and I wouldn't want to do them for 50 years, but when did we start thinking that every job was supposed to be so fun, fun, FUN! I realize this may sound a bit like a "get of my lawn" post, but the biggest fantasy we've hoisted onto young people is making them think that work is supposed to be glamorous and the be all/end all of life.
I'm lucky enough to be in a job that I enjoy very much, but at the end of the day I realize that it's a JOB and that if for whatever reason I have to work on some projects that are a little mundane or boring it's no big deal.
Entry level DBA for google? you've got to be sh*tting me, thats a stellar job out of univ. stop whining and get back to work.
My first job was working as a C# programmer for a large Canadian freight company (Arrow Transportation), my boss had zero idea how to develop software, consequently it was basically all up in his head what he wanted to see, the program didn't follow any particular development model, and subsequently failed. What did I learn? Only work for people who do not suffer from the Peter Principle.
Ref:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle
Hi, I Boris. Hear fix bear, yes?
Large parts of the network had been strung in the production area - where nightly, a gaggle of folks would hose the entire place down with hot water and caustic cleaners, all delivered at 1500 psi. Troubleshooting a busted wire or device in a non-beaconing token-ring network got to be real fun, especially when half the automated weigh-stations' operators knew maybe 5 words in English. At one point, I drilled holes in the NEMA 4x-rated junction boxes to let the water drain out faster than it got in - just to keep things from corroding as quickly.
You had to fend off (and sometimes referee) 'manager wars', where area managers would slip into the control room and try to literally steal chickens from other managers off the pneumatic shackle lines (by twiddling the priorities and weights when they thought no one was looking).
It was an interesting sysadmin slot though... one which taught me some (since forgotten) Spanish, how to weld stainless steel, how to deal with USDA inspectors who walked about with permanent anal cramps, how to remove chicken fat from a keyboard, and how to endure some brain-melting odors every time one of the pH meters at the water treatment building went down. It was the only computer job where the combination of rubber boots and a hair net were required.
I think it was something like three years after I left before I would bring myself to eat chicken again...
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
The worst job has to be the one you can't escape. You can't make nearly as much money elsewhere but you have no chance of advancement where you are.
The guy who fixes our computers has been with us for about ten years. He got the idea that he should upgrade his education. He got a BComm. It cost a lot and it was hard work. The trouble is that he has no administrative experience so our mutual employer won't promote him to anything where he can use the degree. His only option is to quit and take an entry level position elsewhere. The trouble is that he can't afford to take a cut in pay.
That has to be the worst job. Look up 'wage slave' in the dictionary and you see buddy's face.
All of these jobs are cush compared to the 7th level of hell that was my first IT job. I worked for a local school district doing "PC Tech" type work. This doesn't sound all that bad right? Wrong, the majority of my time was spent fixing problems that students purposly created. Rich little snobby bastards had nothing better to do then stick gum in floppy drives or shove pencils into power supply fans. Of course the students never had to pay for the damage they created, it came out of MY budget. And then there was the politics. I've never met a bigger group of scumbags then those who called themselves Principal. They always want the latest and greatest, but never want to fork over a dime. Additionaly for some reason it was always MY fault that the worthless software that they lobbied the Superintendent doesn't work right (of course they never consulted me on it before they began lobbying). Of course they had no problem what so ever throwing me under the bus for this. On top of all that the pay was horrid...$10 an hour. I could go on and on, but I tihnk you get the point.
So, now, were they networked or weren't they? Because a modem connection still is a network connection. A slow one, over POTS, but still a network connection.
It's really a shame there's no -1 Pedantic mod optionThe quality of the job is really how you approach it.
Often Tech Support jobs are hated by college grads because they feel the work is really below them, in many ways it is. But if you put that asside and focus on making peoples lives a bit easier then the job would be less of a pain, and letting the angry insults roll off your back.
Or you can be a software developer on actually a very exciting project but you tend to focus on the mononoty and your ideas that got rejected, making working on the project just mizerable. Vs. exciting if you focus on the interesting bits and the ideas that you contributed and got approved.
It is often the mindset of the job that makes it good or bad. Yes managers and corporate culture can effect your mindset as well. And just staying happy with your job isn't really an option. But it is not always the job itself but what you make of it.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
There is the widespread attitude that no matter how bad graduate work is, you've got to grin and bear it. Old IT hands will tell you every time "Thats where I started, and now I'm successful rich and happy." regardless of it thats true or not. It usually isn't because conditions in the IT industry change rapidly and most of that change is negative for people entering the industry.
It is fine explaining to young people they have to work their way up, but this bottom rung is getting fucking ridiculous. McDonalds workers have been known to get more money, respect and job satisfaction than recent IT graduates. I was advised by a career centre that it I was better off claiming benefits (reasonably generous in the UK; you won't be homeless but you won't be partying either) than taking most entry level jobs.
It is fine making people work for respect, but entry-level work these days feels more like unusually vindictive hazing rather than a job. The upper echelons seem to take a delight in torturing the fresh-faced graduates, and then moan and whinge when they can't get good people with experience. Its because most of the good people fuck off and find a more rewarding career before they get experience you idiots!
If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
I saw a job posting for some local company that was simply titled "We need a computer guy" - $8 an hour, job description matching what you just said. You're exactly right, a shitty job with a heavy emphasis on "other duties as assigned".
A level 3 tech's time is much more costly to the company than a L1's or even a L2's. It's like a pyramid. Lots of L1 techs to screen out the reboot-will-fix-it-for-now callers, some L2 techs to gather the information for the L3 and possibly script monkey away the problem and avoid escalating to L3 and then just a handful of L3 techs that handle the few calls that get through to them.
Toss in draconian call metric systems, skeleton crews and call volumes that burn out your L1 and L2 techs before they start getting raises and you've got a system that favors not promoting customers up the chain if at all possible.
Another thing to remember: when you call in you are bothering the other person on the other end as well. They really don't want to talk to you. They will make you share in the suffering. If the L2 techs can find a way to keep you in L1 hell, they will. L3 does the same.
I'm amazed that we haven't had enough incidents yet to coin the phrase "going tech support". Hitler and Stalin don't have anything on the average L2 tech when it comes to malevolence and a burning desire to rid the world of all life in the cruelest, most painful ways possible.
I do technical support for cell phones and BlackBerrys. Although I try to get a feel for each person's competency and react accordingly, it does happen that a competent-sounding person has overlooked something obvious. Better safe than sorry, I say, if the basic troubleshooting is pretty quick to do. It's embarrassing to escalate something and find out that it was a no-brainer after all.
I do get callers who are in charge of setting up other people's devices, and when I hear from them multiple times, I start trusting that they know what they're doing.
One thing's for sure, though: I don't just talk like a robot through some script. I'm a human who likes helping humans.
A real pedant would take you to task on the use of "pedantic" as a noun.
I personally had two job offers right out of college, and I didn't exactly graduate with honors. Since then, I've had zero trouble finding a decent job, and consulting work on the side.
So, not to brag, but it sounds to me like your job prospects are simply what you make of them.
This is a no-brainer around here (literally.) First, there are no tech companies in Ohio, so tech jobs are quite scarce.
What in the world and what part of Ohio are you talking about? I'm a software engineer in Columbus, OH and I'm posting this on my lunch break. There are plenty of tech jobs out there, you just have to know where to look. A few right off the top of my head:
Admittedly a lot of these aren't what you classify as "tech companies," but they still hire developers like crazy. I think the market is what you make of it, and a lot of getting a job is simply not giving up on the hunt.
As for a B.S. being B.S... I call BS. Most places around here won't give you the time of day unless you have a B.S. Certifications don't mean a thing (unless you have experience to back them up), and an Associate's means the hiring manager will at least glance at it for a fleeting few seconds before deciding to toss it back in the pile.
God, schmod. I want my monkey man!
You mean a real *pedant*.
You forgot: Is the power working in your city? In the building? In the room the computer is in.
I wish I was kidding when I say that I had calls about about computers not working at all and the fact that there was no power in the room, building, or city (had all three cases) apparently didn't cross their minds at all.
"Is the power light lit on the monitor?"
"No"
"Is the monitor's switch turned on?"
"Hold on, I'll have to get a flashlight, the power's out in the building."
*eye twitch*
Users would, of course, assume you were patronising them when you asked 'is the cable plugged in' (be it network, of power, or whatever) and say 'yes' despite not knowing.
So we included a standard check of 'what kind of connector is it?' in the call resolution process. Not because we think it's likely that anyone has anything other than the standard IEC connector, and RJ45 network plug, but because that basically guarantees they'll look at the back of their machine, and probably spot unplugged cables, isolator switches toggled, or just 'stolen' gang sockets.
We have had a fairly substantial number of calls end with 'oops, nevermind' at that point.
The person who has to do user studies on a urinal-based video game.
Sky TV told my Mum to turn the coax cable around that went between the wall and the sky box when she had problems a while back (it was a faulty box though, as we thought). I guess Sky's tech support ask people to do this otherwise pointless act to actually force the user to check the cable is connected OK, and as the cable will get reseated any crud causing a poor connection will probably be wiped out too.
I bet Sky get quite a few "oops, its OK now" too when they ask people to turn a wire around.).
Car analogies break down.
I have to agree. I only skimmed the jobs, but none of them looked that bad...especially for a college grad coming out of school with no experience. I looked at 2 at random, and range was from $45K - $75K. That is fantastic....I know we have to take into account inflation, but, WOW....I started at about $20K or so....but, started quickly working my way up.
I was expecting to hear that complaints on these would be working 32/7 hours....with no AC, etc. The google dba one, the largest complaint I could see was....it was a bad cubeland...and he got mistakenly put in the wrong group....OMG!! That is a complaint on a first job for $75K/yr??
Geez, in my day, I had to wake up at 10 o'clock, half an hour before I went to bed, eat a lump of cold poison....go down the the mill and pay mill owner for permission to work...and well, you get the idea.
YOu try to tell that to the kids of today.....and they won't believe you..
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
That's why I utter the words "If you work with me, I can get you off this call faster. I don't need much help, just a little info.". If they aren't complete retards purely reading from a script with absolutely no understanding of what they're saying, it usually works pretty well for me. That, and just being nice but firm.
It's amazing what being nice will get you in general, actually.
My blog. Good stuff (when I remember to update it). Read it.
The other frustrating thing I've found is, especially with ISPs, if you call on nights and weekends, you get an outsourced L1 tech, which is even worse. Best bet is to call someone you know who works there, if possible, because the tech support pyramid, in general, won't get you where you need.
Example: We have to DHCP Release on the old router before switching to a new one (or, really, a new MAC address) -- one thing I've occasionally called in for is simply asking someone to nuke my lease. When we call the guy we know, he calls a guy he knows, and in maybe two minutes, we're back online. When we call tech support, especially on a weekend, if I'm lucky, I can explain the situation in less than five minutes and the tech is actually competent enough to understand me -- but I'll get no real help until it expires on its own, or until I can call the guy on Monday.
Maybe I'm naive, but it just surprises me that tech support has never been tried with quality over quantity.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
insist that their diagnosis must be correct...
Don't waste my time with scripts boy!
I *know* the electrons have leaked out of my computer,
and if you would just send me a fresh jar I could refill it myself.
No, a dial-up modem is not really a network connection in the ad-hoc sense that these systems were probably using. At least to me a "network" involves two (arguably three) or more identifiable and addressable nodes and a dialup connection fails on both.
There's no identification mechanism on either side (IP address, machine name, etc) of a point to point (not PPP) dialup connection you either initiate or answer and once the handshake is complete there's no further distinction between the two nodes. There's no addressing mechanism either, you just pump stuff out your serial port and the other side gets it nor not, you may never know unless you were running a specialized transfer app/protocol like Kermit or X/Y/Zmodem. In fact you can't even tell if there is "another side" sometimes you may just be sending to the bit bucket.
Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
The biggest frustration I have is when a company does not seem to keep a ticket record of my previous problems and their attempts to fix it.
Once my ISP had a switch or router or some of their equipment down the street go bad to where it started dropping packets - but only at peak load.
So every time I called, by the time I had gone through level 1, level 2, and all the waiting on hold - by the time I got to level 3 (*if* I ever got there) the problem (which at this point, all I knew on my end was that I was losing packets, somehow) had stopped.
The most frustrating thing is that every time I called to continue to resolve the issue - they started me at step one again. They actually sent a tech out to my house three times to say "huh, I don't know why they sent me out here" and for some time refused to escalate me to level 3 without sending the tech out again.
If they would have just kept some record that I had already gone through all of their earlier steps, I could have talked to a level 3, explained the problem, and worked out a solution. Eventually I figured out the problem myself and called up to tell *them* what it was - their equipment, and exactly where even. I wanted to charge them a consulting fee.
I have no problem having to go through the standard "unplug/replug" rigmarole once - sometimes it's even fixed it as I forgot one step. But when I call back, let me go straight to where I left off, please!
I have mod points, but I have to reply here. Worst jobs my ARSE. What do people expect, a corner office, pajama dress code and regular sexual favors?
My first tech job was in the backroom of a grimy computer repair shop. I was working up to four computers at once. One or two would be some home user who had covered their system in spyware and expected it to be fixed for $100. ("Fix! Fix in two hours or we lose money! Or format system and say couldn't save it!") One or two would be testing and writing up specs for some abandoned/old system the owner has kicking around so she could try to resell them. (p2/233, with 32 megs ram. price: $200. in 2003.) The rest would be warm-bodying Windows installs and updates. For $8.00 an hour. When they expected me to get all excited about a raise to $8.25, I quit.
The second, working for an "IT Consultant" company that still showed all the signs of the garage it started in crossed with the worst of Dilbert: clueless management, sales promising the world for pocket change, and techs required to travel all over the place in their own cars, using their own cell phones, without travel compensation. We were being billed out at $100/hr while being paid $10/hr. The managers kept ranting at the techs for not doing the amount of work required to keep the doors open, while the techs ranted at the managers for not assigning it, and the whole place was owned by a completely clueless martinet. I left after six months when they fired the best tech they had and announced intentions to continue operations with a mix of unpaid college interns and foreign outsourcing. ("Indians?" "... Actually, cheaper than.")
In that light, let's go over this article:
1. Online sales and operations account manager, Google
$45k - $60k a year plus google on your resume? sign me up!
2. Support engineer, Amazon.com
$80k/yr plus amazon on your resume? SEE ABOVE.
3. Content acquisition intern, IODA
Unpaid sucks, true, but there's many more unpleasant/dangerous things to do than rip CDs all day.
4. Customer support specialist, Fox Interactive, MySpace division
Customer support sucks, no matter where you do it. 33k/year is better than $16k.
5. Database administrator (temporary), Google
70k/year. See item 1.
6. Support professional, product: Windows, Microsoft
Listening to people's Windows problems for $40k a year, plus actually having access to resources that might help you fix them? Beats the shit out of spyware fixing for 16k. Plus: Microsoft on the resume.
7. Executive admin to Mashable CEO Pete Cashmore
This isn't even a tech job, this is personal assistant territory. With commensurate pay.
8. Analyst, user operations, Facebook
Support again. Decent pay again. (Well, maybe not for Palo Alto.)
9. Operations finance, analyst intern, Yahoo
Okay, this one *might* be bad. Intern, company possibly going down in flames, $12/hr.
10. Part-time guide, Mahalo
They admit this one themselves. "Why so bad? It's not, really."
Article rated (-1, Sensational)
if the answer isn't violence, neither is your silence / freedom of expression doesn't make it alright
you are most correct... i'll never forget the time i found myself with a box from Bell Atlantic containing a DSL modem, filters, and a CD... of course, i only ran Linux in the house... and of course, the CD only contained Software For Satan(TM)...
in fact, it readily became apparent that the only way to establish service (get a username and password) was through some sort of Windows extensions/js stuff for Internet Exploder...
so i called Bell Atlantic and social-engineered my way past the first tier folks, and then got a good tech... i explained that i was using Linux... he understood, got a customer service (billing) rep on the line at the same time, who then gave me a username and password right over the phone - no going through any software install or Windoze browser crapola!
i was pretty stoked when i got my first ping from an xterm on my new DSL connection...
so whoever you are and wherever you are, thank you tech rep from the now-defunct Bell Atlantic DSL support line!
You're welcome.
I worked for Bell Atlantic DSL support, later renamed Verizon DSL support. It was the worst job I've ever had, or ever will have. I wasn't even all that upset when they fired us all to move our jobs to Canada.
And I did help a lot of Linux users, since I was one of the few people there who used it at home.
--saint