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The Case for Lunar Property Rights
longacre writes "Who owns the moon? In a thought provoking piece, Instapundit blogger/law professor Glenn Reynolds gives us a brief history of earthlings' discourse on lunar property rights, a topic which has stagnated since the 1979 Moon Treaty. Is it possible to claim good title on land that is not under the dominion of a nation? He goes on to plead his case for the creation of lunar real estate legislation. From the article: 'Property rights attract private capital and, with government space programs stagnating, a lunar land rush may be just what we need to get things going again.'"
I think if anyone can actually get to the moon, they'll have a valid claim on it.
Let's be real, the moon is never going to be like Florida, even if it's really sunny and the reduced gravity helps even feeble elderly people play golf (those big craters come really handy there!) Even if it could be, the powers that be cannot really allow private property in the moon, or private developments in space. Just read a bit of SF. The Earth sits in the bottom of a gravity well. It cannot allow people outside (or almost outside) of that gravity well, with the possibility of throwing down big stones, and no fear of reprisals. Only big changes in technology could change that reality.
Rome taught me patience and assiduous application to detail. Virtues which temper the boldness of great, general views.
As a human born on planet Earth, I have a right to a plot of land for sustenance and shelter, in reasonable proximity to where I was born. This should supersede property rights of the mega-rich, even if my parents bargained away the rights. At most, the land can be loaned from humanity for an exclusive use of one person for a limited time. Lets not start the same heartless trend on Moon or even try to live there until we can behave decently on Earth.
No entity can grant property rights they cannot enforce.
I've had my base on the dark side for years, nobody's bothered me yet. The existence of rights on the moon is determined by who wields power on the moon, not some piece of paper on earth. Unless nations on earth are willing to use violence to enforce these land deeds, then the deeds are worthless. I wonder how hard it is to launch moon rocks at earth.
> 'Property rights attract private capital and, with government space programs stagnating, a lunar land rush may be just what we need to get things going again.
Great. Spammers on the Moon.
Wish humanity would spend more time developing genuinely useful technology and less time on stupid law tricks like this.
The question is not whether lunar rights are good, but whether any 'property' rights in land are. The arguments against property in land are strong. When someone creates something - adds value to raw material - it's reasonable that that person should have strong rights to the object created; they've put the work in. No-one (except the Dutch) creates land. People argue that 'improving' land gives the improver the right to it, but
Property rights in land all date back ultimately to theft: through the appropriation of a resource which was common to the whole community, and making it private to one individual. Mostly, that theft has been accomplished with the aid of serious violence, often genocide. It's a basic principle of the rule of law that you can never have good title to stolen property; so you can never have good title to land.
Property in land creates persistent inequity in societies over generations, leading to highly stratified class systems and drastically reduced social mobility. It creates kakocratic societies, which reward the most dishonest and dishonourable; and it prevents communities from making efficient planning choices about their lands.
Extending what has done such drastic harm to the Earth to other planets is the opposite of good sense.
I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
An agreement outlining "property rights" goes a long way to help settle disputes on how the land is to be used. We need the debates and create agreements upfront to prevent long and painful litigation, diplomatic conflict, or war.
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They would claim vast swaths of land after just looking at it. However, whole areas frequently drifted from one country's dominion to another. What made the final difference? Force of arms.
If you want to claim the moon, you have to put a fort up there. Because who cares if Joe Shmoe in Pasadena California bought the Danjon Crater for $2,500, when the Chinese put a guy up there with bazooka? Bazooka wins, end of story.
Want to claim parts of the moon? Put force of arms up there. No other way about it. Don't like this fact? Take it up with human nature and human history. This is the only way this process has ever worked
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
On the moon it'll be the country with the most heavy lift.
I'd love to live in a world where people would stop trying to govern each other and start to base their relationships on friendship and love, or at least respect each other's personal freedom. And simply... Not get in the way of others.
But we have that damn ego that keeps forcing us to kill and conquer and enslave. In the name of *WHAT*?
So, the problem is not whether land should be owned or not. We are the problem.
All you need is 10 meters (yards, retards) of fence. Put it up, and create a home in what others would call "outside" the fence but you call inside the fence because that is where your home is. The tiny spot is left for others.
Bert
Who'd hate to see the moon mined for He3. We're already wrecking a planet, we should have learned something from that.
Well, you may have answered that question yourself: speculative investment. There are companies (and even individuals) who can afford to throw a billion dollars away on pure speculation. Let's say there's a 50% chance the land will never be worth anything; a 49% chance you'll eventually at least recover the costs and maybe make a small profit (e.g. in a century or two when moon tourism is viable); and a 1% chance that some discovery makes the land incredibly worth valuable. It might well be worth dumping some otherwise idle capital into securing a piece of the land at dirt cheap prices just in case it turns out to be a goldmine.
The real question is, who assigns property rights? What makes them meaningful? Maybe the UN should allocate a bunch of land to each country with a reasonable claim (i.e. viable spam programme) with the caveat that they actually have to stake out their lands for their claim to be cemented. Something like placing solar powered beacons every few hundred square kilometres, and after a certain deadline other countries can start beaconing "your" land (inaction would be an indication you don't want the land). While this won't be particularly appealing to most countries due to the enormous cost involved, if someone decides to go for it (e.g. Russia) then are the US and China and anyone else interested going to sit back while other countries get internationally-recognised moon real estate?
Realistically the US would probably just block the resolution before it left Earth, but it's an interesting idea: essentially forcing a space race with a real concrete, complicated mission.
In a sense, no government has a REAL say about property rights anyway. It's the guns that have the say.
Basically, it boils down to: it belongs to whomever can defend it. That's the way it works on Earth-- I don't think that'll change on the Moon, or on Mars. Lobbing rocks at Earth, anyone?
Anyone who invests in lunar real estate before any kind of lunar authority is established, backed up by force, is an idiot.
I'm not seeing a lot that you can do on the moon.
Escape proof prisons beyond the rule of law (ala Gitmo)?
Some people simply enjoy having power over others. They crave it. Whether it is nature or nurture, I don't see that characteristic going away... ever.
Space Shuttle was a program that strapped humans to an explosion and tried to stab through the sky with fire and math
And the first person to get to the moon and establish a permanent outpost there will have authority that no Earth agency can contest with much success. Bonus if that first person is backed by some government that doesn't care much what the rest of the world thinks.
Hey, look, the US is planning to establish a permanent moon colony by 2020. As is China. There will be some fireworks over this, folks.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
Also coal and uranium. If it makes a good fuel, Antarctica's got it!
And soon, the real needs of Humanity will outweigh the religious zealotry which has kept Antarctica undeveloped cold and crappy. a proper turf war a la the falklands war between nationalist forces. perhaps argentina versus china. That's funny. Argentina may have claims on Antarctica, but would last about two months against China, and the Chicoms are not nice people like the British: Argentina proper will end up Chinese territory if they dare challenge China over something vital as oil. small problem of who will dig it up. which will of course be outsourced to one of the international oil cartels. go ahead, pick one. bp. shell. exxon. Likely each section of the oilfields will be leased to the company or combination of companies best able to produce that particular section. They often prove their intent by outbidding their competitors.
If you think these companies are cartels, you can buy a piece of the action. If you think they misbehave, you can buy shares and vote to correct them.
Which is much, much better than dealing with a real fucking cartel, OPEC, which is aligned with questionable and even downright evil governments like Iran and Venezuela. uggh. the future. citizens ruled by corporations. no thanks Typical.