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DoE Announces 'L Prize' For Solid-State Lighting

erikaaboe notes that the US Department of Energy has announced a competition to develop efficient solid-state lighting technology. The "L Prize" program will allocate as much as $20 million in cash prizes for innovations to replace the common light bulb. Further details are available at the L Prize website. From the press release: "Lighting products meeting the competition requirements would consume just 17% of the energy used by most incandescent lamps in use today. The plan also includes a rigorous evaluation process, including testing of proposed products by independent laboratories (conducted through DOE's CALiPER test program), as well as field evaluations by DOE and utility partners to assess products in real world conditions. Four major California utilities ... have signed a Memorandum of Understanding with DOE, agreeing to work cooperatively to promote high-efficiency solid-state lighting technologies."

53 of 220 comments (clear)

  1. Sooo..... by Gruturo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    DoE had $20M to offer for this contest, but couldn't find $4M to save Fermilab ?

    Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of energy efficient lightning, but what the hell?

    --

    Vacuum cleaners suck. Kings rule.
    1. Re:Sooo..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'd scoff, but I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're trolling brilliantly. What follows is clearly for the benefit of others. IF they pay the $20 M out, the savings to the economy, in just the US, could be measured in major fractions of a TRILLION. Not that Fermilab isn't very worth while, even critical, but it's more of a high risk, high reward extremely long term investment. You know, like investigating the photoelectric effect.

    2. Re:Sooo..... by Rogerborg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I imagine that the DoE's political remit doesn't go beyond using up fossil resources a tiny bit slower. We'll switch to promoting new sources when the ruling dynasties have switched enough of their portfolios away from oil.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    3. Re:Sooo..... by bytesex · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think if you gave fermilab $20KK and told them to come up with this new lamp though, that you would be certain of the outcome. Whereas now, it's up in the air a bit.

      --
      Religion is what happens when nature strikes and groupthink goes wrong.
    4. Re:Sooo..... by Vectronic · · Score: 2, Interesting

      And that is probably a good thing.

      If FermiLab (or a single organization/company) was designated as "you do this, no one else" then you would end up with basically a monopoly, FermiLab (or whatever) sells/gives the patents, etc to a few major or maybe only one major company (GE or whatever) done deal.

      The "L Prize" means that quite a few companies are aiming for that star, one will get the prize, thus funding, and other benifits, but, the second third and probably even further down on the list get recognition they may not have gotten otherwise, which could potentially create alternatives, if not in America, then in another country.

      Granted, this could (is) all happen(ing) without the DoE, but its mainly about getting people to pay attention than it is trying to figure out a problem that doesnt really exists (Solid-State lighting is already fairly common, at least in Canada)

    5. Re:Sooo..... by moosesocks · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Fermilab didn't need "saving"

      The $5mil was a tiny part of their total budget, and the lab was inevitably going to be downsized considerably next year, once the Tevatron is shut down.

      Also, energy-efficient lighting is a higher priority than particle physics for the DOE at the moment. Given the energy/oil crunch at the moment, it only makes sense that they're funneling a larger portion of their money into short-term projects to find new methods of generation and energy conservation, rather than funding "hard science," which technically isn't even their job to do in the first place.

      --
      -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
    6. Re:Sooo..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Solid-State lighting is already fairly common, at least in Canada

      Ah. that explains what makes Canadian chicks look cool.

    7. Re:Sooo..... by kmarshallbanana · · Score: 2, Interesting

      In all seriousness I would say this is a much better way to spend that money. A solid state light with low energy consumption would have immense impacts for todays hot topic of global warming, not to mention that if it doesn't work then it won't cost them a thing, they will only pay if its successful. Also, given the LHC it makes sense to reduce spending on Fermilab slightly nowadays.

    8. Re:Sooo..... by Vectronic · · Score: 2, Interesting

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:E27_with_38_LCD.JPG

      I know what they are, and by "fairly common" I didnt mean in half the house-holds, BMW's are fairly common too.

      You can also buy them in pretty much any lighting department of a decent size.

      But then again, im on the opposite side of the country.

    9. Re:Sooo..... by Intron · · Score: 2, Funny

      Which part of "liquid crystal" matches with "solid state"?

      --
      Intron: the portion of DNA which expresses nothing useful.
  2. Err , LEDs? by Viol8 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Am I missing something or have they forgotten about white LEDs which are making pretty rapid inroads into general lighting? They're far more efficient that incandescent or strip lights.

    1. Re:Err , LEDs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Is that all you care about? Efficiency? What about the fact that the light looks too blue or green and is therefore displeasing, and won't be quickly adopted? I haven't switched to CFL's because quite frankly, they suck.

    2. Re:Err , LEDs? by montyzooooma · · Score: 2, Funny

      Google for "led grow lights" and you'll see plenty of panels. I'm using a fluorescent set-up at the minute but can't wait for LED to become more mainstream. And I'm not even growing pot, just capsicum.

    3. Re:Err , LEDs? by Smidge204 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Spectrum is one legit problem with LEDs. In general it's difficult to get full spectrum lighting from LEDs - but it IS possible. The problem right now is although LEDs have the best Lumen/Watt efficiency, they have the worst Lumen/Dollar ratio.

      Regarding CFLs... I was at the hardware store getting stuff to fix a lamp and decided to put down $5 for a pair of 23W CFLs (7000 lumen/100W equivalent). I have to say that, having owned one of the very early CFL types several years ago and being very disappointed with it, I was VERY surprised at these new ones. Instant-on brightness was equal to the 100W incandescent it replaced, and it actually got BRIGHTER after a minute or so. The light has a slight tint to it - not quite as "yellow" as sunlight but not white/blueish like the 4' tubes in most offices.

      All I can say is give it a try. Made a believer out of me.
      =Smidge=

    4. Re:Err , LEDs? by Moofie · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Indistinguishable, huh? What happens when I turn this dimmer knob?

      People keep telling me that there are dimmable CFLs, but people keep telling me that there's Sasquatch too.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    5. Re:Err , LEDs? by Bryansix · · Score: 2, Informative

      They exist but they are super rare. My Dad works for So Cal Edison and they ran a program where they sold lamps with dimmable CFL's for like $5 for the whole package. I've only seen them in stores once.

  3. Solid-state? by Awptimus+Prime · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Wouldn't it be assumed all modern light bulbs are 'solid-state' and will continue to be?

    Perhaps someone wanted to sound smart by using more words than needed in that press release.

    1. Re:Solid-state? by Awptimus+Prime · · Score: 2, Informative

      Oh, I see. They want to avoid utilizing a vacuum. This doesn't seem to matter either, as long as someone comes up with a way to do it with greater efficiency.

      It'll take a lot of research and effort to figure out how to make a better LED with only (up to) $20m in rewards.

    2. Re:Solid-state? by David+Gerard · · Score: 4, Informative

      Fluorescents work on a gas being turned into a plasma, so wouldn't qualify. LEDs are solid-state, but are presently very expensive as lightbulbs. Incandescents are fragile, but might be "solid state", but fail on the power requirement.

      --
      http://rocknerd.co.uk
    3. Re:Solid-state? by MichaelSmith · · Score: 2, Interesting

      LEDs are solid-state, but are presently very expensive as lightbulbs. In outlay, yes. But they are unlikely ever to need to be replaced. I could imagine light fittings being sold with hard wired LEDs, and lasting decades.
    4. Re:Solid-state? by mrbluze · · Score: 5, Funny

      Wouldn't it be assumed all modern light bulbs are 'solid-state' and will continue to be?

      Nope, the one in my fridge is a little man who makes sure there's light when I open the door, for the small cost of mysteriously eating up all the chocolate custard only hours after I put it in there. He's not solid state.

      The guy in the freezer is solid state, though

      --
      Do it yourself, because no one else will do it yourself. [beta blockade 10-17 Feb]
    5. Re:Solid-state? by Jurily · · Score: 3, Funny

      The guy in the freezer is solid state, though I treat my annoying neighbors that way, too.
    6. Re:Solid-state? by bplipschitz · · Score: 2, Informative

      Wouldn't it be assumed all modern light bulbs are 'solid-state' and will continue to be?

      Hollow state [think vacuum tube] actually. Solid state is like an LED.

      Mod this down--this isn't insightul, it's just a question.

  4. Significantly bright LEDs are very expensive by MichaelCrawford · · Score: 5, Informative
    I expect they'll get there eventually, but they're not practical for regular home or office lighting yet.

    They work great for flashlights, and the headlight and taillight on my bike use LEDs.

    But I researched LED lights a couple months ago, and found that a "60 watt replacement" LED light was expected to cost well over a hundred dollars, and at that time was still in development, and not yet available.

    I finally settled for a couple twisty bulbs, but I'm not too happy about it because they contain mercury.

    I'm also not too happy that the mercury warning on the package just advised me to dispose of them "according to local laws". As if it would be OK to let the mercury into the groundwater if there wasn't a law specifically against doing so!

    --
    Request your free CD of my piano music.
    1. Re:Significantly bright LEDs are very expensive by Larsrc · · Score: 2, Informative

      Check out dealextreme.com, they have them available. No, not down to CF prices yet, but significantly more efficient.

    2. Re:Significantly bright LEDs are very expensive by Yvanhoe · · Score: 2, Informative

      But I researched LED lights a couple months ago, and found that a "60 watt replacement" LED light was expected to cost well over a hundred dollars, and at that time was still in development, and not yet available. Errr, I see spot bulbs composed of a dozen of lights, claiming to output as much light as a 60W incandescent bulb, for 3 euros at my local store... Is there some factor I am missing ?
      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    3. Re:Significantly bright LEDs are very expensive by brunes69 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      There is 60 times more mercury in the battery in the watch on your wrist than there is in 1 CFL.

      How many people do you think send their watch batteries to the toxic waste disposal centre?

      The hazards of mercury in CFLs is vastly overblown by the media looking for a story.

    4. Re:Significantly bright LEDs are very expensive by nmg196 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah - they're lying, or you were mistaken. They either weren't LED bulbs (probably CFL) or they weren't 60W output. There is currently no commercially available 60W equiv LED bulb for anything like this price.

    5. Re:Significantly bright LEDs are very expensive by jabuzz · · Score: 2, Informative

      Nice try but there has been now mercury in watch batteries for over a decade.

    6. Re:Significantly bright LEDs are very expensive by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Informative

      CFL's aren't worth the energy they save Here, a 60W incandescent costs around 50p and lasts about six months. A 20W CF costs about £3-5. I don't know how long they last because I haven't yet had to replace any of the ones I bought four years ago, but we'll say four years for the sake of argument. Over four years, the capital cost of incandescents is £4, while the cost of CFs is £3-5. If you run it for two hours a day, then you are saving 58kWhs, which is about £6-10 (depending on a lot of factors) at the moment. The TCO of a CF is therefore somewhere between £5-11 lower than incandescents over four years. Scale that up by the number of bulbs in the average house and it's a significant saving.
      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    7. Re:Significantly bright LEDs are very expensive by halcyon1234 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I finally settled for a couple twisty bulbs, but I'm not too happy about it because they contain mercury

      Oh, please. There's more mercury in your watch battery than in the CFL. And it's not like its posing any actual danger to you. The mercury isn't released into the air when the CFL is broken. If it does break, you can clean it up with a vacuum and a pair of rubber gloves, just like a non-CFL. No need to call in a hazmat team.

      Unless you're going to get down on the floor and lick up the broken CFL, it doesn't pose much a risk to you.

      Environmentally, the tiny bit of mercury is far outweighed by the massive energy usage and packaging savings the CFL gives you over its life time. The CFL can either be disposed of with your paints and batteries (ie: safely), or some places even have CFL recycling programs to reclaim the materials.

      Take a gander at the Natural Resources Canada FAQ about CFLs. It includes a link to a health study about the effects of CFL's mercury.

    8. Re:Significantly bright LEDs are very expensive by Smidge204 · · Score: 2, Informative

      An LED bulb to replace a 30W incandescent is $45.

      Just about all LED lamps available now are made from discreet white LEDs that cost about 50 cents each in bulk. Factor in PCB, power supply and assembly and they're still stupidly expensive.

      What they need is a purpose-build manufacturing method to form dozens of LED junctions as a single unit specifically as a bulk light source.
      =Smidge=

    9. Re:Significantly bright LEDs are very expensive by hack++slash · · Score: 2, Interesting

      LED lighting on bikes when done right is very good, recently I did my own LED bike lighting setup which is built-into the reflectors, on the back are a couple of oblong red reflectors with 8 red LEDs mounted behind the clear plastic (works suprisingly well as the light is spread out though around 180 degrees), but the front light is something special as I drilled 60 3mm holes in a standard CatEye white reflector and embedded 60 bright 3mm LEDs into it.
      The 60 LEDs are split into two (wiring wise), 18 in the middle and the other 42 around them, the end result is that with a switch on the handlebars I can flick between low/off/high with an extra momentary button for hi-beaming cars/people. Cycling along unlit roads/cycle paths is amazing, you can see *everything* when all 60 front LEDs are on, what helps is that the 3mm LEDs produce a very nice beam spread - the brightness gradient from the center outwards is very smooth, far better than most 5mm LEDs.

      --
      To do something right, you often have to roll up your sleeves and get busy.
    10. Re:Significantly bright LEDs are very expensive by Yvanhoe · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well, I still have on my kitchen table a spot that has about 15 LEDs (it DOES look like LEDs), cost me 3 euros, haven't tested it yet (the shape is a bit weird and doesn't fit in any of my lamps). It is 16 euros if you want to build one from parts at an expensive retailer. I think that the Chinese factory easily cut down that price by 3 or 4.

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
  5. Decades? Not really by JustShootThemAll · · Score: 4, Informative
    The bright white leds that are currently used are not all that stable. Light output decreases with use because the phosphor coating degrades. Remember that white leds are actually UV-leds that need a phosphor coating not unlike fluorescent tubes.

    It takes about 1000 hours for the led to reach 50% light output. The time from 100% to about 85% is measured in single digit hours!

    So, no, light fixtures that last for decades are right out. With current technology, that is.

    1. Re:Decades? Not really by minimum · · Score: 5, Informative

      Bullshit. This applies to very cheap LED's bought from China (or similar). Leading manufacturers like Cree, Lumileds and the rest claim 75% of lumen maintenance after 50'000 hours.

  6. Why not fluorescents? by DFJA · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I don't understand this - fluorescents easily beat all *mass produced* white LEDs with good colour rendering in efficiency, and as long as you don't believe the manufacturers' 'incandescent equivant ratings', are a perfect replacement for incandescents. I know there are laboratory LEDs which have higher efficiency, but these are a long way off being mass produced at reasonable prices. I'm all in favour of pushing technology, but prescribing that it must be 'solid state' is completely wrong.

    It reminds me of the old UK cycle-lighting regulations, which basically stated you had to have a light bulb conforming to one of about 3 standards, all incandescent. Once efficient red LEDs came along, it was ages before the regulations changed to make them technically legal - long after everyone in their right mind stopped using the legal versions.

    --
    43 - For those who require slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything.
    1. Re:Why not fluorescents? by DFJA · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The interesting thing here is that when people see a flashing red light, they tend to think 'slow moving vehicle' rather than cyclist. This is a double-edged sword - on the one hand, it makes (most) people go more slowly and cautiously, which is good whether you are a cyclist, pedestrian or horse rider (yes, I've come across one at night!). On the other hand, it makes people think 'slow moving vehicle', which many cyclists are definitely not. The number of times I see stupid motor vehicle drivers overtake me dangerously because they have assumed I am going slowly without actually observing that I'm not is astounding. There are many reasons cyclists could be going very fast - good bike, fit cyclist, downhill, tailwind etc. or a combination of these.

      --
      43 - For those who require slightly more than the answer to life, the universe and everything.
    2. Re:Why not fluorescents? by SlashWombat · · Score: 2, Informative

      Your car headlights are supposed to illuminate the curb. There is also the matter of parallax as you get closer to the light/Bicycle, you can determine the distance.

      If you have trouble with this, I suggest you either get your eyes tested, or stop smoking whatever it is.

      Alternatively, try riding a bicycle (even during the day) for an hour or so a day, for a couple of weeks. You will discover that it doesn't matter how visible you are, ignorant arseholes in cars will actively try to run you down anyway.

    3. Re:Why not fluorescents? by Smidge204 · · Score: 2, Informative

      This hasn't been true since they stopped using magnetic ballasts.

      =Smidge=

  7. So... by MassiveForces · · Score: 4, Funny

    Anyone got any bright ideas?

    1. Re:So... by somersault · · Score: 5, Funny

      I read the headline and summary as being about solid state 'lightning' for about half a minute before realising what was actually going on. Solid state lightning would be great for a Thor halloween outfit, and distracting your coworkers (as well as giving them internal burns)

      --
      which is totally what she said
  8. Yes, but ... by WindBourne · · Score: 4, Insightful

    the L prize gives nothing out UNTIL something is found. So the truth is, that the L-prize really costs nothing except for real results.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    1. Re:Yes, but ... by Arccot · · Score: 4, Insightful

      the L prize gives nothing out UNTIL something is found. So the truth is, that the L-prize really costs nothing except for real results. That's really the genus of it. Outside of some administrative overhead for the program, it costs nothing until someone gets results. There are alot of practical problems like this that could be solved by these sorts of prizes.

      Say a $Billion bounty for a very effective and cheap to produce HIV vaccine or cure, and the same for various cancers. Sure, the patent would be owned by a company, but it would be in their interest to sell the product, so it would get out into the market.

      I'm certain the world as a whole could easily scrape together multiple billions of dollars for a HIV or cancer cure. The savings alone would make it a no-brainer.
  9. Prizes probably help little by mrcaseyj · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The success of the X-Prize seems to have made everyone crazy about prizes to stir development. But it seems to me that the X-Prize only worked great because there were some very special characteristics about the commercial manned suborbital launch vehicle problem. I think there were two primary reasons the X-Prize was successful.


    The main reason was that there was no need to develop any new technology. It was only necessary for previously developed tech to be implemented cheaply. Any great NEW technology like efficient light bulbs or a cancer cure or whatever will usually have such a huge payoff to its developer that a few extra million isn't likely to add much extra incentive. If funders think it can be done then they'll fund it even without the prize. If those who would fund it see it as a long shot then the prize won't change the equation much.


    The other reason the X-Prize was successful was that it wasn't clear that a manned suborbital rocket could be profitable. Boeing or Lockheed could have easily built such a rocket. If they thought it would be profitable then why wouldn't they? Maybe they thought that anything less than a very careful and therefore prohibitively expensive development project would have left their deep pockets open to excessive liability. Again, concerns like this are not a problem for a lighting technology or a cancer cure or an efficient car technology.


    Oh well, best of luck anyway. Even if these prizes are a waste at least they aren't wasting all that much in the grand scheme of things.

    1. Re:Prizes probably help little by jank1887 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, it's not the X-Prize driving these. It was the DARPA grand challenge (the one with the autonomous vehicles). Off the top of my head, I don't recall which pre-dates which, but the success (and notoriety) of the DARPA prize program has led the powers at be to give authority for additional prize programs in other areas. DoD is currently sponsoring a Wearable Power prize program, and I'm not at all surprised to see DOE get in on the deal as well.

    2. Re:Prizes probably help little by gmack · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm not opposed to CFL since I've replaced the incandescent bulbs everywhere except the chandeliers, fridge and stove with CFL.

      My large problems are the chandeliers. I tried LED but they were too dim and I can't use CFL because they would e just plain ugly plus they are on a variable dimmer and CFL only seem to do well on two stage dimmers.

      So yeah .. more options are needed.

  10. LEDs? by 192939495969798999 · · Score: 4, Funny

    1. buy LED lights from thinkgeek.
    2. Mail into DoE.
    3. Profit?

    --
    stuff |
  11. Congress, not DOE makes many of these decisions by MyNameIsFred · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Many of these decisions are made by Congress, not DOE. As part of the President's Budget submission, DOE submits a budget proposal to Congress. Congress then goes through that budget. As part of their Constitutional duties, Congress frequently says "you're spending too much money here, not enough there." Congress passes the budget, and the President generally signs it. DOE is then stuck with the budget it is given. While DOE has some discretion in moving money around because of unforeseen circumstances, it does not have a free hand. Furthermore, frequently through the committee reports, Congress provides "guidance." In essence saying, "We, the Congress, put this money here for a reason, you better not move it, or there will be hell to pay." Federal agencies pay a lot of attention to "Congressional language." Furthermore, there is a problem in DC known as the "color of money." Congress puts money into different accounts. Frequently, the law says this color of money (e.g., money for salaries) cannot be used for other things (e.g., building new buildings). Added all together, there is a limit on what federal agencies can do.

  12. Lasers by Kythe · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Right now, diode lasers are among the most efficient (if not the most efficient) light emitters available. I'm guessing the winner, if there is one, will involve a laser or three plus diffusers/despeckling to get general lighting.

    Of course, getting cost down is another thing entirely.

    --

    Kythe
    1. Re:Lasers by hakr89 · · Score: 2, Informative

      The problem with using lasers is that they produce light at only one wavelength. This is part of why they're so efficient, they make only one kind of light. White light is a blend of light from throughout the spectrum. You aren't going to be able to make white light with a single laser, you will need at least three (Red, Green, and Blue). To make more realistic (whiter) light, you would want each laser to transmit more of its area of the spectrum, reducing its efficiency and making it less of a laser as the goal of a laser is to emit coherent light. This is why lasers aren't suitable for this kind of lighting.

      See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser

    2. Re:Lasers by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 2, Informative

      Right now, diode lasers are among the most efficient (if not the most efficient) light emitters available. I'm guessing the winner, if there is one, will involve a laser or three plus diffusers/despeckling to get general lighting.

      "Despeckling" means spreading the frequency of the light. The speckle comes from interference patters from the monochromatic light from the laser bouncing off surface textures. Broadband sources have speckle in each frequency, too. But the speckle from a swath of minutely different frequencies averages out to a non-speckled reflection.

      So combining a laser with nanoparticles to efficiently swap the energy around between frequencies until it's smeared out into a plesant white light should do the job. B-)

      --
      Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  13. BTW, by WindBourne · · Score: 5, Informative
    the HIV cure will not be forthcoming for quite sometime. The reason is that the vast majority of the RD money now goes into drug companies. These folks have NO desire to solve this. For example, look at the history of ulcers. At one time, malox was the #1 drug sold here. Every drug company said that it was genetic. Then 2 regular docs solved it. It was a simple bacterial infection. In fact, it was a common bacteria. But none of the companies who had been paid MILLIONS (back then a lot of money) could solve that (or could they).
    Now, we have a NEW genetic disease up and rising: Psoriasis. Evey drug company is screaming that it is genetic. And they have all sorts of new drugs that treat the symptoms. But everybody seems to ignore several little things about:
    1. UV lights (i.e. time outside) will clear it up almost better than the drugs do.
    2. the rate of rise is MUCH higher than a genetic disease would allow. The fact that it hits ppl who have never had it in either family is ignored.

    This is the next ulcer. And while HIV does have a lot more basic research going on, it is obvious that the majority of the research is devoted to solving the symptom issues and not the issue of the bug itself.
    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.