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Paper Stronger Than Cast Iron

TaeKwonDood writes "All paper is made of cellulose, which at the nanoscale level is quite strong, but paper processing makes large, fragile fibers that break easily. Researchers in Sweden have have come up with a manufacturing process that keeps the fibers small, resulting in 'nanopaper' with over 1.6 times the tensile strength of cast iron (214 megapascals vs. 130 mPa). And since cellulose is the most abundant organic compound on the planet, it's cheap to use compared to other exotic, expensive-to-produce options — such as carbon nanotubes."

91 of 327 comments (clear)

  1. It's strong enough to build a ship by camperdave · · Score: 5, Funny

    It's strong enough to build a ship out of... as long as you don't get it wet.

    --
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    1. Re:It's strong enough to build a ship by Beavertank · · Score: 3, Funny

      Ding ding tssh? These words you keep using... I don't think they mean what you think they mean.

    2. Re:It's strong enough to build a ship by Scaba · · Score: 4, Funny

      I think Ding Ding Tssh is the new annoying yet lovable character in the next Star Wars film.

  2. Iron Man's nemesis... PAPER MAN by Armon · · Score: 5, Funny

    Coming next summer, the Epic battle between Robert Downy Jr. as Iron Man, and an unknown antagonists who goes by the mysterious PAPER MAN! /attempt at humor

    1. Re:Iron Man's nemesis... PAPER MAN by unspokenchaos · · Score: 4, Funny

      perhaps they'll have the entire cast of ROD... hehe...

    2. Re:Iron Man's nemesis... PAPER MAN by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      There's actually an anime with a paper-powered superhero.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5Lxn5y2Xe8

    3. Re:Iron Man's nemesis... PAPER MAN by solitas · · Score: 4, Informative

      No no no - the girls were the GOOD GUYS, remember? That big trenchcoated mook with the glasses was one of the bad guys. And he dead now.
      Awesome anime - did they ever do more?

      --
      "It's time to take life by the cans." ~ Bender ("Bendin' in the Wind", ep. 3-13)
    4. Re:Iron Man's nemesis... PAPER MAN by infonography · · Score: 3, Funny
      --
      Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
    5. Re:Iron Man's nemesis... PAPER MAN by PPH · · Score: 3, Funny

      That's paper BOY to you, buddy!

      Now watch it, or I'll toss your Sunday edition up on the roof.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    6. Re:Iron Man's nemesis... PAPER MAN by mrjb · · Score: 2, Funny

      No no no - the girls were the GOOD GUYS, remember?

      The girls were GUYS? :O :O

      --
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    7. Re:Iron Man's nemesis... PAPER MAN by Jesus_666 · · Score: 3, Funny

      In an anime, that's not exactly the most unusual revelation...

      --
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  3. Great, but is it fireproof? by Chas · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Or treatable to be fire-resistant?

    I can see a lot of uses for it even if it isn't. But I can see some fairly awe-inspiring ones if it's possible.

    --


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    1. Re:Great, but is it fireproof? by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 5, Funny

      Or treatable to be fire-resistant?

      I can see a lot of uses for it even if it isn't. But I can see some fairly awe-inspiring ones if it's possible. Guy 1: BWAHAHAHA, BEWARE my super-robot made with nanopaper! It's stronger than steel!
      Guy 2: *lights match*
      Robot: *FWOOOM*
      Guy 1: :(
    2. Re:Great, but is it fireproof? by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Could be it doesn't matter for a lot of applications. Houses aren't fireproof, in fact a lot of things arent: clothes, boxes, guitars, plastic, etc. Cast Iron isn't exactly the strongest stuff around, so obviously tensile strength isn't the only important thing in a material. Apparently there is a lot research going on these days about how to make stronger paper. Some links at the bottom of the article.

      --
      Qxe4
    3. Re:Great, but is it fireproof? by mazarin5 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I suddenly had an image of Japanese-style paper walls made of this stuff. I wonder how much this would cost after it becomes commonplace? Would it be a viable replacement for drywall or wood? Would it be a good insulator?

      Interesting indeed.

      --
      Fnord.
    4. Re:Great, but is it fireproof? by Ilan+Volow · · Score: 2, Funny

      I understand where you're going with this, but I'd doubt that Martha Stewart would take a paper frying pan seriously.

      --
      Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
    5. Re:Great, but is it fireproof? by Iamthecheese · · Score: 3, Informative

      If nothing else, it will revolutionize the packaging industry. Strong cardboard boxes are a holy grail of packaging.

      Other uses? Paper airplanes, coat it with plastic and make a really cheap fishing boat, tape that won't break, temporary floor, single-use knife, non-toxic circuit board for cheap toys... This is a breakthrough in the highest meaning of the word.

      --
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    6. Re:Great, but is it fireproof? by zappepcs · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Actually, you are probably right. More porous and stronger? Sounds like a new paper towel to me. Hmmm what other paper products do we use that might benefit?

      Saturated paper products: Tar paper, sheetrock, and other products that are basically using paper to contain some other product, etc.

      Non-saturated: string spindles et al, books, food and product packaging materials, shipping materials...

      If it turns out that thicker pieces constructed with pressure or other methods, perhaps we'll finally get a throwaway computer or dvr case? Perhaps we'll find that a lot of carbon based plastics might be better created with nanopaper processes? How much oil would that save? How much cleaner could commercial enterprises become?

      There are a lot of things that paper is only just a bit less suitable than some other product that creates pollution or distributes toxins either during creation or after it's use.

      Obviously, I'm not the expert, but if this can make some of that come true it will be a very good thing.

    7. Re:Great, but is it fireproof? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Houses aren't fireproof


      Correction: Wood houses.

      There are enough houses, particularly in Europe, which are made mostly of bricks, concrete, and steel. (Floors, even on the second/third levels are made of poured concrete and supported by steel beams.)

      They are as close to fireproof as it gets, except perhaps the roof.
    8. Re:Great, but is it fireproof? by DrMrLordX · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Imagine what the Trabi could have been with nanopaper instead of duroplast.

    9. Re:Great, but is it fireproof? by fishbowl · · Score: 2, Insightful



      >I understand where you're going with this, but I'd doubt that Martha Stewart would take a paper frying pan seriously.

      If it had her company's logo on it, she might.

      --
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    10. Re:Great, but is it fireproof? by marxmarv · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Copper-laminated paper circuit boards are already cheap and available. Now if this stuff is or can be made as flexible as paper, you may have just replaced thin film in flexible circuit applications.

      I wouldn't sell it on its toxicity benefits though. The chemicals used to mask and etch pc boards are none too friendly and most paper is absorbent.

      I wonder if anyone's tried injection molding short chain cellulose yet... it's better to use carbon we have on the surface already than to mine more and bring it into the surface ecosystem to stay.

      --
      /. -- the Free Republic of technology.
    11. Re:Great, but is it fireproof? by kaizokuace · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Paper airplanes, coat it with plastic. I wonder if it could be used in a composite material like carbon fiber or fiberglass. Like if you could make sheets that are easy to layup. Possibly making car body parts from this! Maybe could be lighter than CF.
      --
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    12. Re:Great, but is it fireproof? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      single-use knife And there goes the last shred of credibility for airport security...
    13. Re:Great, but is it fireproof? by CapnOats.com · · Score: 3, Informative

      You'd be surprised...

      In the UK at least half of all domestic construction uses timber frame for the load-bearing structure with simple block and render for the outer skin which provides none of the structural support. Come up to Scotland and practically every building less than 5 storeys high is made using a timber frame.

      The trick in making a building fireproof isn't in making the structure fireproof, but in stopping the fire from getting to the structure in the first place. That's the why every wall and ceiling is made from plasterboard of some kind, because they provide the 30 and 60 mins of fire resistance, not the studs or the joists.

      I'd provide figures to back my assertions, but my books and magazines are in another office.

    14. Re:Great, but is it fireproof? by SamSim · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That would make for superb irony when we reach the future of Fahrenheit 451. All the houses are fireproof, on account of being made of the very paper Montag is paid to burn...

    15. Re:Great, but is it fireproof? by PalmKiller · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, its paper, so don't just throw it away, recycle it.

    16. Re:Great, but is it fireproof? by Fyzzler · · Score: 2, Funny

      Not in landfill it doesn't. Learn some basic science. If you go to a dump, you can find 50 year old newspapers and phone books that look better preserved than they would in a museum. Get off my planet, you pathetic waste of oxygen.

      That's not a problem, that's carbon sequestering. It's your Carbon credits in action.

      --
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  4. Milli-pascal? by dascandy · · Score: 5, Informative

    > 214 megapascals vs. 130 mPa

    214 megapascal (singular, it's a unit) is about 1.6*10^9 more than 130 millipascal. Use your units properly.

    1. Re:Milli-pascal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      What's he trying to say is that those units should be MPa (capital M and capital P) for both.

      Also most steels are above 400 MPa (some as high as 1800) so this isn't that strong, in fact Aluminum alloys can reach into the 400 MPa range.

      Cast Iron (in its 2 major forms grey & white cast) is very brittle and therefore does not have good tensile strength. However compressive strength and its good vibration tolerance is why a lot of large machining equipment uses a cast iron base.

    2. Re:Milli-pascal? by pablomme · · Score: 4, Funny

      Use your units properly. AND they should be using MebiPascals: "204 MiPa vs. 124 MiPa".

      IEC 60027-2 : making life easier for everyone since 1999.
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    3. Re:Milli-pascal? by plover · · Score: 4, Funny

      Use your units properly. AND they should be using MebiPascals: "204 MiPa vs. 124 MiPa". Mebi they shouldn't.
      --
      John
    4. Re:Milli-pascal? by Wandering+Wombat · · Score: 2, Informative

      Also, why would they use the tensile strength of CAST iron? The tensile strength of rolled red steel is 350 MPa, and that's what is used for tensile applications, like.... almost everything. Cast iron is used for compressive purposes, because of it's ease of manufacture, and strength in compression only.

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    5. Re:Milli-pascal? by pclminion · · Score: 4, Funny

      214 megapascal (singular, it's a unit)

      Is that really a rule? Not one I was taught.

      After I ran 6.2 kilometer yesterday, I was feeling thirsty. So I drank 1.6 liter of water. It took 37 minute to walk back to my car. I fired it up, and saw that the engine was already 52 degree from sitting in the hot sun. I got home, and collapsed from exhaustion. I slept an entire 9 hour.

      Maybe it's a rule. I'd rather not sound like a fool though.

    6. Re:Milli-pascal? by DrSkwid · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They used that because it's the number they beat.

      --
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    7. Re:Milli-pascal? by smchris · · Score: 2, Informative

      I can testify that cast iron is brittle from experience. I had a summer job many, many years ago drilling and tapping cast iron foot pedals for industrial equipment. We weren't allowed to toss them into the finished bin. They had to be _laid_ in the bin (a very significant fraction of the time of a unit cycle) because it was quite common for them to shatter if you tossed them four or five feet. Nonetheless, there would be many uses for this product. Perhaps cast iron wasn't the best comparison the PR guy/reporter could have used.

    8. Re:Milli-pascal? by Wyck · · Score: 4, Interesting

      After I ran 6.2 kilometer yesterday, I was feeling thirsty. So I drank 1.6 liter of water. It took 37 minute to walk back to my car. I fired it up, and saw that the engine was already 52 degree from sitting in the hot sun. I got home, and collapsed from exhaustion. I slept an entire 9 hour.

      After a 6.2 kilometer run yesterday, I was feeling thirsty. So I had a 1.6 liter drink of water. It was a 37 minute walk back to my car. I fired it up, and saw it already had a 52 degree engine temperature from sitting in the hot sun. I got home, and collapsed from exhaustion. I had a 9 hour sleep.

      Adjective vs. noun usage?
  5. Papery by Deltaspectre · · Score: 5, Funny

    It's just like irony but stronger

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  6. awesome - shredproof paper! by Tumbleweed · · Score: 5, Funny

    Perfect for government documents and voting machine audit results. :)

  7. Re:First! by icebike · · Score: 3, Informative

    This is hardly surprising given that the source for most paper is wood, and wood has the highest tensile strength of any building material known to man based either on weight or cross sectional area.

    Not a lot of our building techniques rely primarily on tensile strength, most rely on spanning gaps with weight bearing members. But if you have to hang something heavy, Wood is your friend.

    Tensile strength does come into play on collapsing structures, as weight bearing members are removed, and buildings end up hanging from their walls or rafters. Firefighters really dislike entering steel framed buildings, when fighting active fires because steel softens and collapses without warning, where as wood groans and snaps and gives ample warning that it is about to collapse.

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  8. 1.6 times by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    over 1.6 times the tensile strength of cast iron Considering that cast iron isn't particularly renown for its tensile strength, being 1.6 times stronger isn't that impressive.
  9. Don't they realize... by Garridan · · Score: 3, Insightful

    But... cast iron has the tensile strength on the order of concrete. Which is to say, not much at all. Good job guys, you've shown that paper is about as strong as... paper! How did this get published?

    1. Re:Don't they realize... by Garridan · · Score: 5, Informative

      Oops, just RTFA'd. They didn't show that paper was as strong as paper. They made paper twice as strong as old "high strength" paper. Which still has very, very little tensile strength. Comparing to cast iron really doesn't help their case.

    2. Re:Don't they realize... by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 4, Informative

      But... cast iron has the tensile strength on the order of concrete.

      I think you might be two orders of magnitude off. Cast iron shows up as having around 130 to 200MPa (depending on your figures), concrete shows up at 3MPa. Having used it, cast iron can be pretty cheesy stuff. But I imagine that strength-to-weight is pretty good.

  10. Oh, great... by professorfalcon · · Score: 5, Funny

    This is going to mess up so many games of Paper, Rock, and Scissors.

  11. hang on! by H0D_G · · Score: 5, Funny

    Wait, so paper beats scissors now?

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  12. One point about grey cast iron by dbIII · · Score: 4, Informative
    The tensile strength of grey cast iron is fairly low because the carbon comes out in the form of graphite. That's right - the same thing that is in pencils. When you have large flakes of graphite, say a few millimetres in size, you have a fairly low tensile strength (stretch it and it breaks) and low toughness (drop it and it cracks). The compressive strength isn't so bad and cast iron is a lot easier to make than steel which is why it is still used.

    With the paper there is the advantage that small particle sizes dramaticly increase strength.

    1. Re:One point about grey cast iron by value_added · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A well seasoned cast iron implement also has the advantage of being relatively non-stick ...

      Well-seasoned cast iron also has other advantages other than being non-stick (not relatively, but most definitely) that include more even and higher temperatures (for superiour browning), requiring no soap and water to clean, and being oven-safe (oven-friendly, actually) so you can cook using using any method or methods you choose.

      Then again, cast iron went out of fashion years ago when women started working in professional kitchens and found them too heavy for regular use, and the introduction of electric stoves (which don't generate a high enough heat) probably didn't help matters. It's a shame, really, and any westerner who's been in a Chinese kitchen and seen a wok seasoned over 20 years put to regular demanding use would probably agree.

  13. Ikea furniture was cheap before... by TRAyres · · Score: 4, Funny
    But now it will be INDESTRUCTABLE as well!

    Fantastic!

  14. cast iron? by Tmack · · Score: 4, Informative
    Really, cast iron is weak in comparison to a lot of metals. 130mPa is also the ultimate strength of human bone, which would have made a much more interesting comparison. Cast iron isnt really used as much for anything anymore since steel is much stronger and is almost as cheap. The article's claim to replacing carbon nano tubes is a bit of an exaderation, as they have a strength of 62GPa

    Tm

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    1. Re:cast iron? by plover · · Score: 5, Informative
      Cast iron's not exactly dead. It's still good for producing relatively intricate parts cheaply. As long as you don't require high accuracy on every surface, you can have a really complex part that's only somewhat more expensive than the scrap iron that goes into it.

      Think of a thin stationary engine housing with fins to dissipate heat -- you usually don't care if the fins are within 0.25" of where they're supposed to be; as long as air can pass over them they can do their job. As far as the important surfaces, such as the ones that hold the bearings or that mate with another housing, sure, you'll have to machine those. But if you had to machine all those fins from a solid steel block, or cut a bunch and weld them all on, you'd easily spend three times the money on labor and tooling and have a part that doesn't last as long as a casting.

      There are many different alloys of cast iron, and they each have their own set of properties. All are much harder than ordinary steels, and usually have excellent wear resistance. Some alloys allow for more intricate castings. Some are easier to machine. And some, such as white iron, are extremely brittle and almost worthless in tensile strength, but can be treated to crazy levels of hardness. It all depends on your application, and in which properties you require. Steel can't simply be "dropped-in" as a replacement material. Hell, sometimes you can't even substitute ductile cast iron for malleable cast iron.

      And I wouldn't count on being able to substitute paper for cast iron, either!

      --
      John
  15. Re:First! by serviscope_minor · · Score: 5, Informative

    wood has the highest tensile strength of any building material known to man based either on weight or cross sectional area.

    No, steel does. That's why I-beams are steel, not wood. It's also why the cables in suspension bridges are steel, not wood poles.

    Not a lot of our building techniques rely primarily on tensile strength, most rely on spanning gaps with weight bearing members.

    And what determines how well you can span a gap? A combination of compressive and tensile strength. You need to revise your beam bending...

    Tensile strength does come into play on collapsing structures, as weight bearing members are removed, and buildings end up hanging from their walls or rafters.

    So what does some in to play? Probably a mixture of tensile and compressive strength, depending on what is failing and why.

    --
    SJW n. One who posts facts.
  16. Re:First! by B3ryllium · · Score: 3, Funny

    Great, just what I need - newspapers that groan and snap when I try to read them.

  17. Re:First! by cez · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I think the interesting aspect of this is the tensile strength ratio to mass or weight... at first I figured nanopaper would be mad stacked and heavy... but from the FA:


    The new nanopaper is "quite interesting," says Mike Wolcott, a materials scientist and cellulose fiber expert at Washington State University in Pullman. In addition to making paper stronger, the nanopaper has large pores between the fibers, which should also make it easier and cheaper to dry, thus reducing the cost of any final product, he says. And because cellulose is the most abundant organic compound on the planet, nanopaper has the potential to be cheaper than more-exotic, expensive-to-produce nanomaterials such as carbon nanotubes, says John Simonsen, a physical chemist and nanocrystalline cellulose expert at Oregon State University in Corvallis.


    apparently the nanobonds are more porous... would be nice to see some comparison statistics on the physical properties between nanopaper and regular paper per square inch say.

    --
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  18. next time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    it's "*badum-psht*"

    1. Re:next time by mrbluze · · Score: 3, Funny

      it's "*badum-psht*" In some countries that's considered very vulgar, in others it's a very effective pickup line in nightclubs.
      --
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  19. Re:First! by mrcaseyj · · Score: 4, Informative

    Icebike wrote
    >...wood has the highest tensile strength of any building material known to man based either on weight or cross sectional area.

    I Think your estimate of wood is much too high. Wikipedia's article of tensile strength http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tensile_strength lists pine wood at 40 MPa    I know there are some woods that are significantly stronger but still.

    For comparison some other tensile strengths listed in MPa are:

    Cast Iron           200
    structural steel    400
    steel piano wire   2500
    Concrete              3
    HDPE plastic         37
    Aluminum Aloy       455
    Glass              4710
    Carbon fiber       5650
    Carbon nanotubes  63000

  20. Health concerns? by wtfispcloadletter · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There's already health concerns and risk with other nano technologies, what about paper? I'm around printers all day long and see a great deal of paper dust. What if there were made up of nano particles and got into the respiratory system of people?

  21. Re:First! by icebike · · Score: 4, Insightful

    > No, steel does. That's why I-beams are steel, not
    > wood. It's also why the cables in suspension
    > bridges are steel, not wood poles.

    The same weight of wood would be stronger.

    Some respect has to be paid to longevity. Who would use wood suspension cables in termite country?

    There are also problems of attaching wood to other objects. Hard to weld wood you know.

    --
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  22. Re:Which is not much... by strength_of_10_men · · Score: 5, Funny

    but where does this leave me?

  23. Does this mean better, more useful origami? by master5o1 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Like Paper Construction Cranes?

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  24. I always knew Paper was strong! by davester666 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Cuz Paper beats Rock!

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    1. Re:I always knew Paper was strong! by stubob · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And now, Paper may beat Scissors as well.

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  25. What is Tensile Strength by mrcaseyj · · Score: 5, Informative
    serviscope_minor wrote:

    icebike wrote:

    wood has the highest tensile strength of any building material known to man based either on weight or cross sectional area.
    No, steel does...
    There seems to be some confusion about what tensile strength is. Tensile strength is how well a material can resist pulling, not bending or compression. A rope can show off the tensile strength of a material even though it has no bending strength or compression strength.

    Even when adjusting for weight, the tensile strength of wood isn't so great compared to S-glass or carbon fiber. And when adjusting for cross sectional area, the tensile strength of wood fares even worse because it has a lot of air in its pores.

    1. Re:What is Tensile Strength by mrbluze · · Score: 5, Funny

      There seems to be some confusion about what tensile strength is. Tensile strength is how well a material can resist pulling, not bending or compression. Exactly, for example, ordinary toilet paper has poor tensile strength, resulting in many a brown finger for some. Let's hope this will stop with our new, stronger-than-steel paper. On the downside we may expect a few more red fingers.
      --
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    2. Re:What is Tensile Strength by street+struttin' · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Exactly, for example, ordinary toilet paper has poor tensile strength, resulting in many a brown finger for some. Let's hope this will stop with our new, stronger-than-steel paper. On the downside we may expect a few more red fingers. Gross.
  26. Re:First! by fabs64 · · Score: 4, Informative

    The same weight of wood would be stronger.
    But not the same cross-sectional size.

  27. Re:First! by Zencyde · · Score: 2, Funny

    Ever tried writing on iron? Not as easy... and folding it to put it in your pocket tends to be difficult.

    On another note, mPa? Really? 214 megapascals vs 130 MILLIpascals? Ever heard of SI? That lack of capitalization causes problems. : )

    (it's from TFS, guys)

    --
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  28. Prior art by Deadstick · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Jules Verne wrote of a paper-constructed aircraft in Robur the Conqueror...

    rj

  29. Re:A return to former tech? by The+Evil+Couch · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Sure, just don't use it in a humid and/or hot environment, where there's a good possibility of sweating on it.

  30. Yeah, until it rains by cheros · · Score: 2, Funny

    Given climatic changes I think we may want to think this one over.

    I can see someone building a skyscraper, only for the whole thing to fall over because someone has an aiming problem in an urinoir midlevel. And God help you if you want to redo the wallpaper :-).

    No! Don't us a steame .. aaaagh!

    Joking aside, interesting development. Puts the final nail into the paperless office.

    No! Aaargh! I'll stop making bad jokes now! :-)

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  31. Re:First! by Vectronic · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Ever tried writing on iron? Not as easy... and folding it to put it in your pocket tends to be difficult."

    However, if you etch a piece of metal, you can use it as a stamp to create numerous copies of the etching, and when you hit severe writers block, its much easier to kill yourself with a piece of tin than paper cuts.

  32. boxes by Quadraginta · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I would guess the application of interest is shipping boxes and so forth. If you want things well-protected, increasingly important in a shipping industry that uses more robots and conveyor belts and fewer human hands every day, you need strong boxes. Probably even a modest increase in the strength of cardboard would be quite helpful, as it would reduce the fraction of the weight of a shipment that is boxing.

    It all depends, really, on whether the processing needed to create "super" paper doesn't cost more than the savings you might enjoy in lower shipping costs per unit weight of product. The fact mentioned in the summary that the original material (wood) is cheap seems quite unimportant.* Steel come essentially from dirt and rock, which is cheap, too. It's the processing that costs.

    --------------

    * But would I expect a /. editor to know something about materials science and/or economics? I would not.

  33. Re:First! by Slotty · · Score: 4, Funny
    So logically as I'm able to put my fist through glass then I should be able to put my fist through cast iron and structural steel.

    The only conclusion I can come to is that I am superman

  34. Re:First! by Zencyde · · Score: 2, Funny

    Touche! I'll remember this the next time I'm trying to kill myself with the object I'm writing on. : )

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    What day is it? Could you please tell me?
  35. Re:Bow to my ninja skills by SlowMovingTarget · · Score: 3, Funny

    And they laughed when I made papier-mâché throwing stars. I'll show them! I am the Paper Ninja (played by Matthew Lillard), and I've just come from OfficeMax!

  36. Re:First! by GigaplexNZ · · Score: 4, Funny

    Apparently Superman didn't take simple physics at school otherwise he would know what tensile strength meant...

  37. Re:First! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'd be interested to know how this stuff stands up to shear: a lot of materials are very strong in one way but incredibly weak in another. Ever try tearing a piece of paper in half by grabbing the two ends and pulling straight apart? It's a lot harder than you would think, but you can easily tear that same piece of paper with two fingers of each hand by applying shear.

  38. Re:First! by rrkap · · Score: 4, Informative

    If it's loaded in pure tension, you're right, wood is stronger per unit weight. However one thing that you have be careful of with wood beams is that wood has a very low shear strength which makes beams fail at much lower loads than you would expect from the tensile strength alone. It also isn't very strong in tension across the grain which limits your design freedom.

    --
    I like my beverages with warning labels!
  39. Sweden.... by gramlin · · Score: 2, Funny

    Paper-Volvo! Bork Bork.

  40. Cast iron is not very strong... by gweihir · · Score: 2, Informative

    This comparison is highly suspicuous. You do not use cast iron for anything that needs tensile strenght, as it breaks too easily. Wrought iron is a whole different matter and is what is used in construction of cars, ships, girders, and the like. Cast iron in the shape of a pice of paper could easily broken by hand without tools.

    It seems aluminum alloy has about twice the tensile strength of cast iron. Ever tried to rip tinfoil? Not that difficult.

    Side note: mPA is milipascals, not megapascals.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    1. Re:Cast iron is not very strong... by greyhueofdoubt · · Score: 2, Informative

      On the other hand, aluminum foil is basically pure aluminum, while aluminum alloys contain up to around 10% of either copper, zinc, tin, etc. Some special 7000-series alloys have tensile strengths surpassing some of the softer steels; they are however shockingly expensive and brittle (and they ring like glass when struck).

      The aluminum found in aluminum foil would never be used in aircraft construction or anything else requiring strength. While I love materials science, TFA or the researchers (whoever chose this comparison w/ cast iron) are way off base here. Anyone who has worked with thin materials including cast iron knows that tensile and shear strengths do not scale and are not compatible among different metals (example: you can't replace thick aluminum with thinner steel because although the tensile strength may be higher, the shear strength will be lower. This is important in aircraft repair, as some members endure one or both stresses).

      Also, tearing a sheet of foil constitutes shear stress, not tensile. A sheet of aluminum foil perfectly supported somehow on both ends so that the force was equal along its length would be stronger than you might imagine. Think of it this way:

      12 inch sheet X .005 inch thick= .060" total cross-sectional area

      That gives you a wire with diameter of .276". That's a pretty beefy wire even for a soft metal.

      -b

      --
      No offense, but I've stopped responding to AC's.
  41. 122 years earlier... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    ...Jules Verne wrote about a heavier-than-air airship that was made from paper, treated with glue and pressed into shape. the resulting material was "as strong as the best steels, and much lighter", to quote the author.

    the novel is called Robur-le-Conquerant (Robur the Conqueror) (1886)

  42. Cancer. by leuk_he · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Note that carbon nanotubes might cause cancer. I wonder how this paper fibers that are threated will be in the health department. Paper sounds fine, but that is the same what they thought of asbestos.

  43. Re:First! by cp.tar · · Score: 2, Funny

    Great, just what I need - newspapers that groan and snap when I try to read them.

    I say it will be a nice turnabout. Usually I groan and snap when I read newspapers.

    I just wonder... how come this wasn't invented in Soviet Russia?

    --
    Ignore this signature. By order.
  44. Re:First! by cp.tar · · Score: 3, Funny

    Apparently Superman didn't take simple physics at school otherwise he would know what tensile strength meant...

    Well of course he didn't.

    Had he taken any physics, he would know he couldn't fly. Tell me, then, what would have happened to Metropolis?

    --
    Ignore this signature. By order.
  45. Not really news by Attila · · Score: 5, Funny

    Anyone who has ever used a public toilet in Sweden would know that this has been in development for some time.

    --
    Dear Will, the plums were poisoned. -- Cheese Club
  46. Re:First! by EatHam · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Not only that, but steel is also slightly less flammable than wood (or paper).

  47. Re:First! by Thelasko · · Score: 2, Interesting

    wood has the highest tensile strength of any building material known to man based either on weight or cross sectional area. No, steel does. That's why I-beams are steel, not wood. It's also why the cables in suspension bridges are steel, not wood poles. I would like to point out a major difference between steel and wood. With wood, the direction of the grains matter, where with steel it doesn't matter. If the grain is oriented properly, wood outperforms steel. However, if the grains aren't oriented properly, steel is the winner.

    In many situations, it is difficult or next to impossible to get the stresses in a structure to be compatible with the grain structure of the wood.

    Timber structures have to be heavily engineered to ensure the stresses occur with the proper orientation to the grain. This often makes them too expensive in comparison to steel.
    --
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  48. Perfect application by starglider29a · · Score: 3, Funny

    Wrapping candy bars, USB drives and CD's to make them UTTERLY un-openable.

  49. Re:First! by Hognoxious · · Score: 2, Informative

    With wood, the direction of the grains matter, where with steel it doesn't matter.
    Steel that has been worked by rolling or drawing can have anisitropic properties.
    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."