Paper Stronger Than Cast Iron

TaeKwonDood writes "All paper is made of cellulose, which at the nanoscale level is quite strong, but paper processing makes large, fragile fibers that break easily. Researchers in Sweden have have come up with a manufacturing process that keeps the fibers small, resulting in 'nanopaper' with over 1.6 times the tensile strength of cast iron (214 megapascals vs. 130 mPa). And since cellulose is the most abundant organic compound on the planet, it's cheap to use compared to other exotic, expensive-to-produce options — such as carbon nanotubes."

Comments

First!

[Anonymous Coward]

Paper rules!

Re:First!

[icebike]

This is hardly surprising given that the source for most paper is wood, and wood has the highest tensile strength of any building material known to man based either on weight or cross sectional area.

Not a lot of our building techniques rely primarily on tensile strength, most rely on spanning gaps with weight bearing members. But if you have to hang something heavy, Wood is your friend.

Tensile strength does come into play on collapsing structures, as weight bearing members are removed, and buildings end up hanging from their walls or rafters. Firefighters really dislike entering steel framed buildings, when fighting active fires because steel softens and collapses without warning, where as wood groans and snaps and gives ample warning that it is about to collapse.

Re:First!

[serviscope_minor]

wood has the highest tensile strength of any building material known to man based either on weight or cross sectional area.

No, steel does. That's why I-beams are steel, not wood. It's also why the cables in suspension bridges are steel, not wood poles.

Not a lot of our building techniques rely primarily on tensile strength, most rely on spanning gaps with weight bearing members.

And what determines how well you can span a gap? A combination of compressive and tensile strength. You need to revise your beam bending...

Tensile strength does come into play on collapsing structures, as weight bearing members are removed, and buildings end up hanging from their walls or rafters.

So what does some in to play? Probably a mixture of tensile and compressive strength, depending on what is failing and why.

Re:First!

[B3ryllium]

Great, just what I need - newspapers that groan and snap when I try to read them.

Re:First!

[cez]

I think the interesting aspect of this is the tensile strength ratio to mass or weight... at first I figured nanopaper would be mad stacked and heavy... but from the FA:

The new nanopaper is "quite interesting," says Mike Wolcott, a materials scientist and cellulose fiber expert at Washington State University in Pullman. In addition to making paper stronger, the nanopaper has large pores between the fibers, which should also make it easier and cheaper to dry, thus reducing the cost of any final product, he says. And because cellulose is the most abundant organic compound on the planet, nanopaper has the potential to be cheaper than more-exotic, expensive-to-produce nanomaterials such as carbon nanotubes, says John Simonsen, a physical chemist and nanocrystalline cellulose expert at Oregon State University in Corvallis.

apparently the nanobonds are more porous... would be nice to see some comparison statistics on the physical properties between nanopaper and regular paper per square inch say.

Re:First!

[mrcaseyj]

Icebike wrote
>...wood has the highest tensile strength of any building material known to man based either on weight or cross sectional area.

I Think your estimate of wood is much too high. Wikipedia's article of tensile strength http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tensile_strength lists pine wood at 40 MPa    I know there are some woods that are significantly stronger but still.

For comparison some other tensile strengths listed in MPa are:

Cast Iron           200
structural steel    400
steel piano wire   2500
Concrete              3
HDPE plastic         37
Aluminum Aloy       455
Glass              4710
Carbon fiber       5650
Carbon nanotubes  63000

Re:First!

[Anonymous Coward]

This is hardly surprising given that the source for most paper is wood, and wood has the highest tensile strength of any building material known to man based either on weight or cross sectional area.

Not a lot of our building techniques rely primarily on tensile strength, most rely on spanning gaps with weight bearing members. But if you have to hang something heavy, Wood is your friend.

Tensile strength does come into play on collapsing structures, as weight bearing members are removed, and buildings end up hanging from their walls or rafters. Firefighters really dislike entering steel framed buildings, when fighting active fires because steel softens and collapses without warning, where as wood groans and snaps and gives ample warning that it is about to collapse. well I think the theory is that steel and concrete are very poor fuels, high compression strength and fairly tolerant to insect attacks.

Stop thinking buildings. Think vehicles.

We have 5000 lb shells to tow our important asses about. Cut that weight and you save gas. ($)

Plus a bullet proof paper airplane has got to be worth a few kudos.

Could be the invention of the year, unless mcdonalds comes up with a healthy big mac.

coolcalt

Re:First!

[RobertM1968]

Some wood is a lot stronger (even some types of pine) and have tensile strengths upwards of 130.

I think what the gp was trying to say is by weight it may (depending on wood type) have a higher tensile strength.

It's one of the reasons we are so interested in kevlar and spider silk and carbon nanotubes for various things... lighter for similar strength of created object - regardless of it's tensile strength for the same size object.

Re:First!

[Khashishi]

Mod parent -1 Incorrect

Re:First!

[icebike]

> No, steel does. That's why I-beams are steel, not
> wood. It's also why the cables in suspension
> bridges are steel, not wood poles.

The same weight of wood would be stronger.

Some respect has to be paid to longevity. Who would use wood suspension cables in termite country?

There are also problems of attaching wood to other objects. Hard to weld wood you know.

Re:First!

[fabs64]

The same weight of wood would be stronger.
But not the same cross-sectional size.

Re:First!

[Zencyde]

Ever tried writing on iron? Not as easy... and folding it to put it in your pocket tends to be difficult.

On another note, mPa? Really? 214 megapascals vs 130 MILLIpascals? Ever heard of SI? That lack of capitalization causes problems. : )

(it's from TFS, guys)

Re:First!

[Vectronic]

"Ever tried writing on iron? Not as easy... and folding it to put it in your pocket tends to be difficult."

However, if you etch a piece of metal, you can use it as a stamp to create numerous copies of the etching, and when you hit severe writers block, its much easier to kill yourself with a piece of tin than paper cuts.

Re:First!

[Slotty]

So logically as I'm able to put my fist through glass then I should be able to put my fist through cast iron and structural steel.

The only conclusion I can come to is that I am superman

Re:First!

[Zencyde]

Touche! I'll remember this the next time I'm trying to kill myself with the object I'm writing on. : )

Re:First!

[GigaplexNZ]

Apparently Superman didn't take simple physics at school otherwise he would know what tensile strength meant...

Re:First!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd be interested to know how this stuff stands up to shear: a lot of materials are very strong in one way but incredibly weak in another. Ever try tearing a piece of paper in half by grabbing the two ends and pulling straight apart? It's a lot harder than you would think, but you can easily tear that same piece of paper with two fingers of each hand by applying shear.

Re:First!

[rrkap]

Wood doesn't have an exceptionally high tensile strength. Douglas fir, for example, which is the main wood used for house building in the Western U.S. and is fairly strong for a softwood has a tensile strength of 14-22 ksi (1 ksi=1000 lb/in^2). A cheap plain carbon steel should have a yield strength of around 30ksi and an ultimate tensile strength of around 50ksi although with heat treatment and rolling you can get yield strengths of nearly double that quite easily.

Further, in most materials the tensile strength is the same as or very close to the compressive strength (the most important exception being concrete which has a high compressive strength and a tensile strength of approximately 0).

If you do any analysis of "spanning gaps with weight bearing members" you'll find that one side of the member is loaded in tension and the other is in compression and the tensile strength is of critical importance.

Re:First!

[Anonymous Coward]

That would be measured in m^2/s^2, not pascals.

Re:First!

[rrkap]

If it's loaded in pure tension, you're right, wood is stronger per unit weight. However one thing that you have be careful of with wood beams is that wood has a very low shear strength which makes beams fail at much lower loads than you would expect from the tensile strength alone. It also isn't very strong in tension across the grain which limits your design freedom.

Re:First!

[cp.tar]

Great, just what I need - newspapers that groan and snap when I try to read them.

I say it will be a nice turnabout. Usually I groan and snap when I read newspapers.

I just wonder... how come this wasn't invented in Soviet Russia?

Re:First!

[cp.tar]

Apparently Superman didn't take simple physics at school otherwise he would know what tensile strength meant...

Well of course he didn't.

Had he taken any physics, he would know he couldn't fly. Tell me, then, what would have happened to Metropolis?

Re:First!

[budgenator]

Wood I beams are becoming popular replacinc solid joists in flooring

Re:First!

[EatHam]

Not only that, but steel is also slightly less flammable than wood (or paper).

Re:First!

[JasterBobaMereel]

Ever tried writing on iron? - Yes thank you ... it's quite easy engineers do it all the time with pencils and pens .... the only downside is that being dark it can be hard to get contrast ...

Re:First!

[laejoh]

There are also problems of attaching wood to other objects.

You mean a bit like swallows?/

African or european swallows?

Re:First!

[Velox_SwiftFox]

Note that the HDPE plastic is the material currently most practical for the purpose the article promotes - "grocery bags that can hold a few liters of milk without tearing".

What is with the "cast iron" comparison anyway? Or for that matter, what use are these numbers anyway? can you imagine how fragile an aluminum foil grocery bag would be, if less than a tenth (37/455) as thick as a HDPE plastic grocery bag?

Re:First!

[Thelasko]

wood has the highest tensile strength of any building material known to man based either on weight or cross sectional area. No, steel does. That's why I-beams are steel, not wood. It's also why the cables in suspension bridges are steel, not wood poles. I would like to point out a major difference between steel and wood. With wood, the direction of the grains matter, where with steel it doesn't matter. If the grain is oriented properly, wood outperforms steel. However, if the grains aren't oriented properly, steel is the winner.

In many situations, it is difficult or next to impossible to get the stresses in a structure to be compatible with the grain structure of the wood.

Timber structures have to be heavily engineered to ensure the stresses occur with the proper orientation to the grain. This often makes them too expensive in comparison to steel.

Re:First!

[mapsjanhere]

If this is Wikipedia data, Wikipedia needs to move to the 21st century.
To put the different tensile properties into context, the list has HDPE (high density polyethylene) at 37 MPa - but if you spin it into crystalline fibers you get 3250 MPa from the same chemical structure, a change of two orders of magnitude.
So the fact that you can do something similar to cellulose is not all that surprising.

Re:First!

[Skagit]

Douglas Fir is 1ksi in tension parallel to the grain per the American Forest and Paper Association's National Design Specification. Dense select structural southern yellow pine (a very expensive timber) is 1.65ksi, about as strong as you're going to get out of wood. Standard mild steel is ASTM A36 steel and according to the specification, yields at 36ksi and fractures at 58ksi.

I would clarify your statement about isotropic behavior. For most metals isotropic is the norm, though cast iron, the yardstick in TFA is a notable exception, being stronger in compression than in tension. Cementitious mixtures like concrete, asphalt and masonry are notorious for being anisotropic and used compression-only when used without some sort of tensile reinforcing. Polymer-based stuff, like cellulose-based materials, are anisotropic - it depends on which way the fibers are oriented in relation to the forces.

Steel is very ductile, so you can make shapes with very slender elements. This is why you can have cold-formed steel studs doing the same job as 2x4 timber studs. The weight difference between the two is small - steel at 1.0 pounds per foot versus wood at .8 pounds per foot for a nominal 2x4 shape.

The paper in the TFA has a tensile capacity of 31ksi. That's pretty strong stuff. I can see it used in tensioned-fabric structures like the Dresden Train Station or in temporary enclosures.

Re:First!

[BronsCon]

Because in Soviet Russia, nanopaper invent YOU!

Re:First!

[greyhueofdoubt]

>>Not a lot of our building techniques rely primarily on tensile strength, most rely on spanning gaps with weight bearing members.

Erm... what kind of stress do you think 'spanning gaps' will produce? Tensile strength is very important in the middle 2/3 of a horizontal structural member like a floor joist. You have some shear stress at the ends, but that pales in comparison to the tensile forces placed on the joist in the middle. There is no such thing as 'bending' strength. Bending is a compound stress that includes compressive and tensile stresses. If you load a horizontal beam, the top of the beam will try to compress, and the bottom of the beam will try to stretch. In wood and most materials, the compressive and shear strength is orders of magnitude greater than the tensile strength, which is why it is so important. I can virtually guarantee that you will not find cases of structural failure in wood-frame buildings due to shear stress before tensile stress causes damage.

Be careful with you stresses- many of them are compound stresses that reuse the basic ones. Torsion, for example, is simply shear stress perpendicular to the axis of rotation. And so on.

-b

Re:First!

[ballestra]

Sounds like it could be used to make the strongest and most absorbent paper towels ever.

Re:First!

[Hognoxious]

With wood, the direction of the grains matter, where with steel it doesn't matter.

Steel that has been worked by rolling or drawing can have anisitropic properties.

Re:First!

[Hasmanean]

Well, if you're a Precolumbian Lamanite, you might write it on plates of gold.

Cf. Book of Mormon.

Re:First!

[post.scriptum]

But what about this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallville_(TV_series)

Re:First!

[Arreez]

If you could see through objects (like that hot chick's sweater) would you be paying attention to tensile strength?

Re:First!

[slashname3]

Ignoring the tensile strength discussion raging on for the moment. The real problem with using paper as a construction material is what happens when it gets wet. Paper would quickly soak up the water and then the building would collapse in a wet pile of pulp. Similar to OSB when it gets wet and starts swelling but in a more spectacular manner as all that paper just falls to the ground.

And as others have pointed out such a material would be prone to insect damage unlike concrete and steel.

Of course maybe the idea is to combine this with another article about building lighter cars to improve performance instead of changing out the powertrain. But then your car would tend to swell and fall apart in a rain to say nothing of the crash worthiness of such a vehicle. But then most cars don't survive a 10 mile an hour hit anymore either.

Re:First!

[Paperweight]

Duh... steel weighs more than wood?

Re:First!

[drinkypoo]

Expose wood to heat and it gets stronger before it gets weaker. Expose steel to heat, and it just starts getting weaker, because heating steel removes work hardening. As has been mentioned elsewhere, the relative failure modes of each have their appeal; wood gives signs that it's about to fail, steel just goes.

Re:First!

[bluefoxlucid]

You will not build the albatross. You cannot make bullet proof paper planes. Get out of the Aerogel crowd; the stuff has uses but making it the silver bullet to end all problems is stupid.

Re:First!

[Anonymous Coward]

woohoo! bridges made of glass! I like being able to see the water below the car.

Moot

It's strong enough to build a ship

[camperdave]

It's strong enough to build a ship out of... as long as you don't get it wet.

Re:It's strong enough to build a ship

[catwh0re]

..or a paper aeroplane. ding ding tssh.
thank you, thank you, i'll be here all week.

Re:It's strong enough to build a ship

[Beavertank]

Ding ding tssh? These words you keep using... I don't think they mean what you think they mean.

Re:It's strong enough to build a ship

[Scaba]

I think Ding Ding Tssh is the new annoying yet lovable character in the next Star Wars film.

Re:It's strong enough to build a ship

[qengho]

Ding ding tssh? These words you keep using... I don't think they mean what you think they mean. Here's an audiovisual aid.

Re:It's strong enough to build a ship

[Ethanol-fueled]

Does that mean that we finally get to see Jar-Jar die? They should hang him with his own tongue or feed him to the Sarlacc pit monster.

Annoying cartoon sidekicks like Orko and Scrappy Doo are so passe', even in modern childrens' movies.

Re:It's strong enough to build a ship

[phagstrom]

Must be inspired from Space Balls then.

Ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding.

Re:It's strong enough to build a ship

[Anonymous Coward]

"It's strong enough to build a ship out of... as long as you don't get it wet."

Are you suggesting someone would actually use wood for a boat? Don't even think about it. Metal is a lot better for marine environments. Metal is hard, as steel and don't... Hey, wait. Oh, forget it. ;)

Iron Man's nemesis... PAPER MAN

[Armon]

Coming next summer, the Epic battle between Robert Downy Jr. as Iron Man, and an unknown antagonists who goes by the mysterious PAPER MAN! /attempt at humor

Re:Iron Man's nemesis... PAPER MAN

[unspokenchaos]

perhaps they'll have the entire cast of ROD... hehe...

Re:Iron Man's nemesis... PAPER MAN

[Anonymous Coward]

There's actually an anime with a paper-powered superhero.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5Lxn5y2Xe8

Re:Iron Man's nemesis... PAPER MAN

[solitas]

No no no - the girls were the GOOD GUYS, remember? That big trenchcoated mook with the glasses was one of the bad guys. And he dead now.
Awesome anime - did they ever do more?

Re:Iron Man's nemesis... PAPER MAN

[infonography]

Larry Niven,

Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex.
http://www.larryniven.org/stories/Man_of_Steel_Woman_of_Kleenex.shtml

Re:Iron Man's nemesis... PAPER MAN

[unspokenchaos]

I don't know watched the OVA and the ROD tv was kinda a yawn...

Re:Iron Man's nemesis... PAPER MAN

[Anonymous Coward]

There was a good yuri-themed manga too. It gave a real introduction for the writer character you might know from the longer TV series. A bit more than just implied relationship with Noriko-very cute.

Re:Iron Man's nemesis... PAPER MAN

[PPH]

That's paper BOY to you, buddy!

Now watch it, or I'll toss your Sunday edition up on the roof.

Re:Iron Man's nemesis... PAPER MAN

[mrjb]

No no no - the girls were the GOOD GUYS, remember?

The girls were GUYS? :O :O

Re:Iron Man's nemesis... PAPER MAN

[kaizokuace]

from Thailand.

Re:Iron Man's nemesis... PAPER MAN

[Jesus_666]

In an anime, that's not exactly the most unusual revelation...

Re:Iron Man's nemesis... PAPER MAN

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not your buddy, friend!

Re:Iron Man's nemesis... PAPER MAN

[Kingrames]

That game always gave me nightmares. The idea that if you gave someone a newspaper they didn't pay for, they'd chase you down and murder you...

Re:Iron Man's nemesis... PAPER MAN

[Gilmoure]

So... Lois would have her head shot off by hot grits and simultaneously gutted like a carp?

Re:Iron Man's nemesis... PAPER MAN

[Anonymous Coward]

Like the inanimate carbon rod! /obscure Simpsons reference

Re:Iron Man's nemesis... PAPER MAN

[Anonymous Coward]

There's one 3-episode OVA (awesome) and one 26-odd episode series (less good), and that's it. But of course true fans would read the manga.

Re:Iron Man's nemesis... PAPER MAN

[benhattman]

Tag Line: This summer, experience paper cuts that really smart!

Re:Iron Man's nemesis... PAPER MAN

[blahlemon]

"Iron Man, Iron Man
Does whatever an iron can
Irons pants, any size
Even ones with baggy thighs
LOOK OUT!
Here comes the Iron Man"

(Compliments of Wizard Magazine, some time in the 90's)

Re:Iron Man's nemesis... PAPER MAN

[Directrix1]

That game just taught me how to cancel my subscription.

Re:Iron Man's nemesis... PAPER MAN

[Anonymous Coward]

That's paper BOY to you, buddy! I'm not your buddy, friend!

Re:Iron Man's nemesis... PAPER MAN

[solitas]

The manga led me to the videos. OVA was the best but, be fair, I'm sure you found lots good places in the 26-eps too. :)

Great, but is it fireproof?

[Chas]

Or treatable to be fire-resistant?

I can see a lot of uses for it even if it isn't. But I can see some fairly awe-inspiring ones if it's possible.

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[Spy der Mann]

Or treatable to be fire-resistant?

I can see a lot of uses for it even if it isn't. But I can see some fairly awe-inspiring ones if it's possible. Guy 1: BWAHAHAHA, BEWARE my super-robot made with nanopaper! It's stronger than steel!
Guy 2: *lights match*
Robot: *FWOOOM*
Guy 1: :(

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[phantomfive]

Could be it doesn't matter for a lot of applications. Houses aren't fireproof, in fact a lot of things arent: clothes, boxes, guitars, plastic, etc. Cast Iron isn't exactly the strongest stuff around, so obviously tensile strength isn't the only important thing in a material. Apparently there is a lot research going on these days about how to make stronger paper. Some links at the bottom of the article.

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[mazarin5]

I suddenly had an image of Japanese-style paper walls made of this stuff. I wonder how much this would cost after it becomes commonplace? Would it be a viable replacement for drywall or wood? Would it be a good insulator?

Interesting indeed.

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[Ilan Volow]

I understand where you're going with this, but I'd doubt that Martha Stewart would take a paper frying pan seriously.

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[Iamthecheese]

If nothing else, it will revolutionize the packaging industry. Strong cardboard boxes are a holy grail of packaging.

Other uses? Paper airplanes, coat it with plastic and make a really cheap fishing boat, tape that won't break, temporary floor, single-use knife, non-toxic circuit board for cheap toys... This is a breakthrough in the highest meaning of the word.

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[zappepcs]

Actually, you are probably right. More porous and stronger? Sounds like a new paper towel to me. Hmmm what other paper products do we use that might benefit?

Saturated paper products: Tar paper, sheetrock, and other products that are basically using paper to contain some other product, etc.

Non-saturated: string spindles et al, books, food and product packaging materials, shipping materials...

If it turns out that thicker pieces constructed with pressure or other methods, perhaps we'll finally get a throwaway computer or dvr case? Perhaps we'll find that a lot of carbon based plastics might be better created with nanopaper processes? How much oil would that save? How much cleaner could commercial enterprises become?

There are a lot of things that paper is only just a bit less suitable than some other product that creates pollution or distributes toxins either during creation or after it's use.

Obviously, I'm not the expert, but if this can make some of that come true it will be a very good thing.

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[Anonymous Coward]

Houses aren't fireproof

Correction: Wood houses.

There are enough houses, particularly in Europe, which are made mostly of bricks, concrete, and steel. (Floors, even on the second/third levels are made of poured concrete and supported by steel beams.)

They are as close to fireproof as it gets, except perhaps the roof.

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[DrMrLordX]

Imagine what the Trabi could have been with nanopaper instead of duroplast.

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[nog_lorp]

I got all my clothes before the whole "Anti-carcinogen" fad, I only wear fire retardant pajamas.

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[fishbowl]

>I understand where you're going with this, but I'd doubt that Martha Stewart would take a paper frying pan seriously.

If it had her company's logo on it, she might.

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[marxmarv]

Copper-laminated paper circuit boards are already cheap and available. Now if this stuff is or can be made as flexible as paper, you may have just replaced thin film in flexible circuit applications.

I wouldn't sell it on its toxicity benefits though. The chemicals used to mask and etch pc boards are none too friendly and most paper is absorbent.

I wonder if anyone's tried injection molding short chain cellulose yet... it's better to use carbon we have on the surface already than to mine more and bring it into the surface ecosystem to stay.

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[whiteinge]

I suddenly had an image of Japanese-style paper walls made of this stuff. Whew! Finally some protection against attacks from rival ninja clans.

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[kaizokuace]

Paper airplanes, coat it with plastic. I wonder if it could be used in a composite material like carbon fiber or fiberglass. Like if you could make sheets that are easy to layup. Possibly making car body parts from this! Maybe could be lighter than CF.

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[Anonymous Coward]

single-use knife And there goes the last shred of credibility for airport security...

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[Chatsubo]

As a member of the EAA, I'd love to be the first person to actually FLY an airplane made completely from paper.

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[WGFCrafty]

No more worrying about Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 turned real.

Take that Captain Beaty!

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[CapnOats.com]

You'd be surprised...

In the UK at least half of all domestic construction uses timber frame for the load-bearing structure with simple block and render for the outer skin which provides none of the structural support. Come up to Scotland and practically every building less than 5 storeys high is made using a timber frame.

The trick in making a building fireproof isn't in making the structure fireproof, but in stopping the fire from getting to the structure in the first place. That's the why every wall and ceiling is made from plasterboard of some kind, because they provide the 30 and 60 mins of fire resistance, not the studs or the joists.

I'd provide figures to back my assertions, but my books and magazines are in another office.

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[giorgist]

Ever light up steel wool.

here's a trick for home kids, make sure you have building insurance.

1. take a piece of steel wool.
2. attach it to string ~50cm
3. light said steel wool with a match
4. spin
5...
6 profit

(part 5 is hinted in introduction)

Great fun when we were kids

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[SamSim]

That would make for superb irony when we reach the future of Fahrenheit 451. All the houses are fireproof, on account of being made of the very paper Montag is paid to burn...

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[eastlight_jim]

Remids me of the old joke:
Q) How do you make a cat go woof?
A) Douse it in petrol

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[metamechanical]

ultra-light disposable "cardboard" furniture.

need to set up another guest bedroom for the family reuinion?

Paper dresser, paper night stand, paper bedframe. Paper (mostly) boxspring. The only part that would cost anything would be the actual matress.

And if Uncle Ernest is a particularly rough sleeper, you can just throw the bedframe away and not feel guilty, because it cost $6 and took you 10 minutes to set up.

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[PalmKiller]

No, its paper, so don't just throw it away, recycle it.

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[Magada]

Where are my mod points when I need them? It's the first I've laughed this week. Thank you, sir.

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[Anonymous Coward]

single-use knife Aaah, paper cut.

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[eredin]

Considering the references to the large pores, I would guess that it would be the exact opposite of fire-resistant. In a previous job, I used thin paper filters (large pores) and when you touched a match to the edge they would almost instantly disappear. It was way cool, but also frowned upon by management.

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[Anonymous Coward]

Would it be a viable replacement for drywall or wood?

Building codes specify drywall because of its fire resistance. Unless this paper is equally fire resistant, it is unlikely to be a suitable replacement for drywall.

Many people don't realize that the drywall in various parts of the home is actually thicker than elsewhere. For example, drywall in stairways (or between an interior garage and the living space) is generally 5/8" thick, rather than 1/2" thick. This is entirely for fire resistance.

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[GeckoX]

Q) How do you make a dog go meow?
A) Freeze it, then run it through a band saw.

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[Jason1729]

More crap to stuff in landfills? Why is it that every time there's a breakthrough, people like you just think of ways to make more garbage out of it?

And as the first reply says, you should be recycling it. It's telling that you said throw it away. Go home and rethink your life and stop ruining it for the rest of us.

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[metamechanical]

I don't know why I'm bothering to take the time to respond to you, but let me connect some dots that you're missing:

Paper, being a simple product of natural goods, biodegrades.

Now, go wave your greenwashing stick at someone else, please.

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[mistr]

If nothing else, it will revolutionize the packaging industry. Strong cardboard boxes are a holy grail of packaging. kids will have a hard time tearing open their christmas gifts...

Other uses? Paper airplanes, coat it with plastic and make a really cheap fishing boat, tape that won't break, temporary floor, single-use knife, non-toxic circuit board for cheap toys... This is a breakthrough in the highest meaning of the word. ah, knife.. paper cuts take on a whole new (and menacing) dimension

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[bussdriver]

Two sheets of paper with a 1 inch air gap that is not open to outside circulation has an insulation value of R5.

They mention great tensile strength, not shear strength which is more important for drywall/wood. BTW, drywall is NOT strong without the paper covering which is in tension; therefore, this paper would benefit drywall - perhaps make drywall thinner and easier to handle? (how about something smarter like adding or replacing the plaster with a phase change material that can store some BTUs...)

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[magus_melchior]

I'd provide figures to back my assertions, but my books and magazines are in another office.

And your princess is in another castle.

Hopefully the way to the other office doesn't involve avoiding bottomless pits, evil chestnuts*, and fire-breathing turtles.

* (Goomba -> Kuribo -> "Chestnut thing")

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[ohzero]

Could be it doesn't matter for a lot of applications. Houses aren't fireproof, in fact a lot of things arent: clothes, boxes, guitars, plastic, ...Michael Jackson...

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like a new paper towel to me.

1.6 times the tensile strength of cast iron

How would you get it off the roll?

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've got the solution. Nanopaper surrounded by cast iron!

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[Jason1729]

Not in landfill it doesn't. Learn some basic science. If you go to a dump, you can find 50 year old newspapers and phone books that look better preserved than they would in a museum. Get off my planet, you pathetic waste of oxygen.

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[mazarin5]

I think that was the green equivalent of the "RTFM" attitude.

Not that you're wrong; this is precisely why I started composting. It takes barely any time for something to break down in my backyard, to the extent that I've been unable to fill up my cubic meter bin even halfway in four years. It makes a hell of a difference though - I've gone from around 2 bags of trash a week to 1 a month.

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[Iamthecheese]

You're missing the fact the recycling uses numerous harsh and dangerous chemicals, while putting it in a landfill sequesters carbon!

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[Fyzzler]

Not in landfill it doesn't. Learn some basic science. If you go to a dump, you can find 50 year old newspapers and phone books that look better preserved than they would in a museum. Get off my planet, you pathetic waste of oxygen.

That's not a problem, that's carbon sequestering. It's your Carbon credits in action.

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[vuffi_raa]

tape that won't break, hehe use that stuff with some nano-wrapping paper for your next birthday gift and watch them go mad trying to get it open

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[metamechanical]

Not in landfill it doesn't. Learn some basic science. If you go to a dump, you can find 50 year old newspapers and phone books that look better preserved than they would in a museum. Get off my planet, you pathetic waste of oxygen.

As per your very polite suggestion, I went and "learn[ed] some basic science."

Note, please, that I never said how or where things ought to be thrown away (ignoring the fact that "throw it away" is a general term of disposal, and people who are less smug than you don't specifically mean "stuff it away in an eeeeevil laaaandfill", but just "make it so I don't have it anymore"). Also, I never said where or how paper biodegrades.

It turns out that I have always just been exposed to Bioreactor Landfills, and so never really gave a thought that there was another kind. Even regular landfills slowly give off methane, though, which wouldn't happen without bacteria breaking down the organic matter!

You know, folks are more reasonable than you might think. Give some thought next time before you simply start slandering someone. It may be more difficult to change someone's mind, and easier just to belt out insults, and present claims that you don't bother to fully research or cite sources for, but it doesn't accomplish your goal. It just alienates those who OUGHT to be your target audience, and makes people antagonistically disregard your message.

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[rootooftheworld]

Fuck, this could replace CFRP,
i love cheap sports cars, anotherstep in the way
</crackpipe>

Re:Great, but is it fireproof?

[PalmKiller]

This is true, however it takes more chemicals to break down tree fiber in the first place to make new paper...so yes it is using chemicals but much less, and your saving a little forest to boot.

Milli-pascal?

[dascandy]

> 214 megapascals vs. 130 mPa

214 megapascal (singular, it's a unit) is about 1.6*10^9 more than 130 millipascal. Use your units properly.

Re:Milli-pascal?

[Actually, I do RTFA]

The intended units were megapascals.

Re:Milli-pascal?

[Anonymous Coward]

What's he trying to say is that those units should be MPa (capital M and capital P) for both.

Also most steels are above 400 MPa (some as high as 1800) so this isn't that strong, in fact Aluminum alloys can reach into the 400 MPa range.

Cast Iron (in its 2 major forms grey & white cast) is very brittle and therefore does not have good tensile strength. However compressive strength and its good vibration tolerance is why a lot of large machining equipment uses a cast iron base.

Re:Milli-pascal?

[pablomme]

Use your units properly. AND they should be using MebiPascals: "204 MiPa vs. 124 MiPa".

IEC 60027-2 : making life easier for everyone since 1999.

Re:Milli-pascal?

[plover]

Use your units properly. AND they should be using MebiPascals: "204 MiPa vs. 124 MiPa". Mebi they shouldn't.

Re:Milli-pascal?

[Wandering Wombat]

Also, why would they use the tensile strength of CAST iron? The tensile strength of rolled red steel is 350 MPa, and that's what is used for tensile applications, like.... almost everything. Cast iron is used for compressive purposes, because of it's ease of manufacture, and strength in compression only.

Re:Milli-pascal?

[DeadChobi]

The international commission of scientists who originally decided that the world's scientists should standardize around System International far, far, far supercedes IEC.

Re:Milli-pascal?

[cgdiaz]

how much you want for that sig space?

Re:Milli-pascal?

[pclminion]

214 megapascal (singular, it's a unit)

Is that really a rule? Not one I was taught.

After I ran 6.2 kilometer yesterday, I was feeling thirsty. So I drank 1.6 liter of water. It took 37 minute to walk back to my car. I fired it up, and saw that the engine was already 52 degree from sitting in the hot sun. I got home, and collapsed from exhaustion. I slept an entire 9 hour.

Maybe it's a rule. I'd rather not sound like a fool though.

Re:Milli-pascal?

[DrSkwid]

They used that because it's the number they beat.

Re:Milli-pascal?

[Alarindris]

I drove 15 mile to work today,
got there 5 minute late,
was the second time in 3 day.
My boss said if it continued to happen he would charge me 10 dollar every time. lol...

Re:Milli-pascal?

[Jesus_666]

Actualy, it is used a bit like that in German. We do use "52 degree" (although I think that "degree", when used for temperature, simply has no separate plural form); "6.2 kilometer" and "1.6 liter" are used since in German "kilometer" and "liter" have no separate plural forms. So, in essence, it's an artifact of having plural = singular. However, we do always use the singular form for currencies - 3 Dollar are about 2 Euro, equivalent to 4 Mark - which would suggest that not having a plural form comes from the fact that we never use one.

This does not apply to time, however. We would never say we sleep for "nine hour". Languages are irrational, which is why I abandoned the thought of focusing my studies on computational linguistics as soon as I saw what you have to deal with.

Re:Milli-pascal?

[RiotingPacifist]

Informative for a post that is in a word wrong, have the mods truly lost it. should i say i have 2 orange (orange is the SI unit for oranges) or 100 banana.

im not sure what shit your talking but it is defiantly wrong.

Re:Milli-pascal?

[Qzukk]

Is that really a rule?

IIRC, the rule is that units named after people (eg Pascal) are not pluralized.

Re:Milli-pascal?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wikipedia has some info on SI writing style.

Pluralizing the full unit name (e.g. metre -> metres) is allowed. Pluralizing the unit symbol is not allowed (e.g. kg -> kgs is bad).

So the original poster was half wrong (about pluralizing), half right (about milli/mega).

Re:Milli-pascal?

[smchris]

I can testify that cast iron is brittle from experience. I had a summer job many, many years ago drilling and tapping cast iron foot pedals for industrial equipment. We weren't allowed to toss them into the finished bin. They had to be _laid_ in the bin (a very significant fraction of the time of a unit cycle) because it was quite common for them to shatter if you tossed them four or five feet. Nonetheless, there would be many uses for this product. Perhaps cast iron wasn't the best comparison the PR guy/reporter could have used.

Re:Milli-pascal?

[Tomas_Bakke]

I doubt you slept 9 hour(s) after drinking all that water.

Re:Milli-pascal?

[Wyck]

After I ran 6.2 kilometer yesterday, I was feeling thirsty. So I drank 1.6 liter of water. It took 37 minute to walk back to my car. I fired it up, and saw that the engine was already 52 degree from sitting in the hot sun. I got home, and collapsed from exhaustion. I slept an entire 9 hour.

After a 6.2 kilometer run yesterday, I was feeling thirsty. So I had a 1.6 liter drink of water. It was a 37 minute walk back to my car. I fired it up, and saw it already had a 52 degree engine temperature from sitting in the hot sun. I got home, and collapsed from exhaustion. I had a 9 hour sleep.

Adjective vs. noun usage?

Re:Milli-pascal?

[Wandering Wombat]

Sadly, that's probably all there is to it.

Re:Milli-pascal?

[Anonymous Coward]

I need to drive 10 mile to the local store and walk 9 meter to the produce aisle and pick out 8 pound of tomatoes and 3 kilogram of corn. The whole process will take about 2 hour.

Re:Milli-pascal?

[Anonamused Cow-herd]

Adjective vs. noun usage? You are completely re-orienting the sentences. If you wanted those compound adjectives to be proper, every single one should be hyphenated. So it would be: "After a 6.2-kilometer run yesterday, I was feeling thirsty. So I had a 1.6-liter drink of water. It was a 37-minute walk back to my car. I fired it up, and saw it already had a 52-degree engine temperature from sitting in the hot sun. I got home, and collapsed from exhaustion. I had a 9-hour sleep."

Regardless, you can't just move subjects and objects willy-nilly and try to feign parity. Compound adjectives are always singular, because verbs are formed as singular indicators.

Re:Milli-pascal?

[magus_melchior]

Given GP's point that the OP was oddly claiming a proper use of units as singular nouns...

If OP meant the use of units as adjectives (or compound modifiers), his point would stand. However, English speakers and writers also treat units themselves as nouns, so "100 megapascals" is at least accepted use: compare with "100 volts", "100 moles", "100 grams", "100 liters"...

("Tesla" might be an exception.)

Re:Milli-pascal?

[pablomme]

The international commission of scientists who originally decided that the world's scientists should standardize around System International I had to write 'IEC', because I always get the acronym 'ICOSWODTTWSSSASI' wrong. These guys should think of a better name, really.

Re:Milli-pascal?

[vistic]

But Doc Brown spoke of GigaWatts.

Volts. Ohms. Watts. Amps. Joules. Coulombs. Newtons.

The assertion that units can't be plural was just wrong. That's all.

It's not natural sounding, it's not how people talk, it's not even how it's presented in classrooms and textbooks and scientific papers. It was just someone trying to sound smart, and ended up being too clever by half.

Re:Milli-pascal?

[Anonymous Coward]

units can't be plural was just wrong

Just because you use the plural form is not going to stop me from buying a 9 Volt battery.

Re:Milli-pascal?

[Joey Vegetables]

It [took] 37 minutes [to] walk back to my car

In a row?

Re:Milli-pascal?

[vistic]

A 9 Volt battery which you would, obviously, simply never say puts out 9 Volts of electricity?

Hmmm.

Re:Milli-pascal?

[Qzukk]

Damn, you're right. Wiki says only lux, hertz, and siemens are the same in singular and plural. Ah well.

Finally...

[Anonymous Coward]

the final piece of the puzzle falls into place and the product to make my composting underwear becomes a reality

Papery

[Deltaspectre]

It's just like irony but stronger

Re:Papery

[enoz]

Just don't get it Windy or Watery.

Re:Papery

[Anonymous Coward]

It's just like irony but stronger I love it lol.

Re:Papery

[Samah]

It's like bronzy and goldy (and irony), only it's made of paper?

Re:Papery

[Flamora]

God help us all if it gets Fiery.

I'm pretty sure it's okay if it gets Earthy, though.

Re:Papery

[Anonymous Coward]

It's just like irony but stronger Until it begins to raaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiaaaaaaain.... on your wedding day. Or any other time, for that matter.

awesome - shredproof paper!

[Tumbleweed]

Perfect for government documents and voting machine audit results. :)

Re:awesome - shredproof paper!

[Anonymous Coward]

oh no... as if credit card applications weren't already a pain to run through the shredder!

grr

[nawcom]

RECYCLE YOUR NANOPAPER!!! We need to get Mr. T to rap about this.

1.6 times

[Anonymous Coward]

over 1.6 times the tensile strength of cast iron Considering that cast iron isn't particularly renown for its tensile strength, being 1.6 times stronger isn't that impressive.

Re:1.6 times

[noidentity]

over 1.6 times the tensile strength of cast iron

Considering that cast iron isn't particularly renown for its tensile strength, being 1.6 times stronger isn't that impressive.

0.6 times stronger. The word "stronger" adds 1 to the factor.

Re:1.6 times

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean 1.6 billion times?

Re:1.6 times

[Anonymous Coward]

No it doesn't.

Re:1.6 times

[Anonymous Coward]

over 1.6 times the tensile strength of cast iron Considering that cast iron isn't particularly renown for its tensile strength, being 1.6 times stronger isn't that impressive. It's paper.

Re:1.6 times

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah. 214 MPa is about 2/3rds of conventional steel. Even most aluminium grades are stronger than cast iron.

And it's MPa, people! Not mPa. Megapascal, not millipascal!

Re:1.6 times

[Anonymous Coward]

Except that it is ... ... PAPER!!!

There were a few similar comments and it just blows my mind that people would actually say something like this.

Re:1.6 times

[Anonymous Coward]

over 1.6 times the tensile strength of cast iron Considering that cast iron isn't particularly renown for its tensile strength, being 1.6 times stronger isn't that impressive. .. for metals, maybe. But we're talking about paper ;)

Re:1.6 times

[noidentity]

So you're saying that if something were claimed to be 50% stronger than something else, then it'd be half as strong, rather than 1.5 times as strong? I don't think so!

Don't they realize...

[Garridan]

But... cast iron has the tensile strength on the order of concrete. Which is to say, not much at all. Good job guys, you've shown that paper is about as strong as... paper! How did this get published?

Re:Don't they realize...

[Zosden]

It sounds awesome though. And who would make a ship out of cast iron or steel I would use super paper.

Re:Don't they realize...

[Garridan]

Oops, just RTFA'd. They didn't show that paper was as strong as paper. They made paper twice as strong as old "high strength" paper. Which still has very, very little tensile strength. Comparing to cast iron really doesn't help their case.

Re:Don't they realize...

[Jeff DeMaagd]

But... cast iron has the tensile strength on the order of concrete.

I think you might be two orders of magnitude off. Cast iron shows up as having around 130 to 200MPa (depending on your figures), concrete shows up at 3MPa. Having used it, cast iron can be pretty cheesy stuff. But I imagine that strength-to-weight is pretty good.

Re:Don't they realize...

[suggsjc]

Comparing to cast iron really doesn't help their case.

I disagree, if only for marketing reasons. Its all about perception. Paper is thought of (in general) as weak in just about every sense of the word. Iron on the other hand just sounds strong and is also perceived as strong by most of the general population. So by saying that it is twice as strong as iron, it plays into people's perception. It even sounded more impressive to me upon first reading. So to say it doesn't help, is a little off base.

Re:Don't they realize...

[Anonymous Coward]

Cast iron has many useful properties but high tensile strength is not one of them. It is actually not very strong, and worse, is brittle. So the strength to weight is not very wonderful, which is wht aircraft are not built with it.

On the other hand it is cheap, easy to cast into complex shapes, has good vibration absorbtion qualities, and has excellent self lubricating properties due to the graphite it contains. Also very messy to machine for the same reason.

Not to be confused with cast steel which can look similar but has much higher tensile strength

Oh, great...

[professorfalcon]

This is going to mess up so many games of Paper, Rock, and Scissors.

Re:Oh, great...

[enoz]

I'm willing to bet my Stainless Steel scissors will beat not only your Paper, but also your Cast Iron scissors.

Re:Oh, great...

[tillerman35]

Yeah, and I'm gonna bring a phone book made of this stuff to the next carnival I go to. Then I'm gonna hand it to the "World's Strongest Man" and laugh uncontrollably as he tries to rip it in half.

It's the little things that make us happy.

Re:Oh, great...

[Yvan256]

Nah, once you upgrade everything it becomes nanopaper, nanorock and nanoscissors. Everything is back to normal.

Re:Oh, great...

[JCSoRocks]

No... it'll still work the same.

Re:megapascal

[Anonymous Coward]

1 megapascal - singular
214 megapascals - plural - there are 214 of them

You do not pluralize when using a symbol, such as mPa, but you do pluralize when written out.

hang on!

[H0D_G]

Wait, so paper beats scissors now?

Re:hang on!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes or no,

Take a paper of 2 cm thickness, do you think your scissors can cut it? Take a foil of iron (1 mm), do you think your scissors can cut it? In other words, thickness matters

Re:hang on!

[mrjb]

Thats why you should go for good ol' `rock'. Nuthin' beats that!

Re:hang on!

[Kierthos]

Obviously, you weren't someone's little brother. Kick to the groin always beats rock.

Re:hang on!

[wembley fraggle]

Wait, so paper beats scissors now? Thank god! I got 3/4 of the way through the comments, just looking for this joke. I was worried nobody had made it yet, and I was going to have to.

Re:hang on!

[bornyesterday]

No, but it does finally explain how paper beats rock!

Re:hang on!

[electricbern]

So all those pen1s enlargement spams where right after all?

Re:hang on!

[fan777]

In other words, thickness matters That's what she said.

Which is not much...

[Jane Q. Public]

Cast iron does not have much tensile strength. Looks like they cherry-picked something to compare it to that sounded impressive.

Re:Which is not much...

[Zosden]

Paper now has the strength of 20 women.

Re:Which is not much...

[strength_of_10_men]

but where does this leave me?

One point about grey cast iron

[dbIII]

The tensile strength of grey cast iron is fairly low because the carbon comes out in the form of graphite. That's right - the same thing that is in pencils. When you have large flakes of graphite, say a few millimetres in size, you have a fairly low tensile strength (stretch it and it breaks) and low toughness (drop it and it cracks). The compressive strength isn't so bad and cast iron is a lot easier to make than steel which is why it is still used.

With the paper there is the advantage that small particle sizes dramaticly increase strength.

Re:One point about grey cast iron

[TubeSteak]

The tensile strength of grey cast iron is fairly low because the carbon comes out in the form of graphite. This all reminds me of Gibson's Virtual Light

Nigel did work for some of the other riders at Allied, ones who still rode metal. He hadn't liked it when Chevette had gone for a paper frame. Now she bent to run her thumb along a specially smooth braise. 'Good one,' she agreed.

'That Jap shit delaminate on you yet?' 'No way.'

'S gonna. Bunny down too hard, it's glass.'

'Come see you when it does.'
...
The frames looked as though they'd been carved from slabs of graphite. Maybe they had, she thought; there was graphite around the paper cores in her bike's frame, and it was Asahi Engineering. There are already bike frames made out of graphite & epoxy, why not throw in some paper?

Re:One point about grey cast iron

[the phantom]

A well seasoned cast iron implement also has the advantage of being relatively non-stick without the use of teflon or anything else which tends to flake off into food or otherwise degrade, which is, in my opinion, useful.

Re:One point about grey cast iron

[value_added]

A well seasoned cast iron implement also has the advantage of being relatively non-stick ...

Well-seasoned cast iron also has other advantages other than being non-stick (not relatively, but most definitely) that include more even and higher temperatures (for superiour browning), requiring no soap and water to clean, and being oven-safe (oven-friendly, actually) so you can cook using using any method or methods you choose.

Then again, cast iron went out of fashion years ago when women started working in professional kitchens and found them too heavy for regular use, and the introduction of electric stoves (which don't generate a high enough heat) probably didn't help matters. It's a shame, really, and any westerner who's been in a Chinese kitchen and seen a wok seasoned over 20 years put to regular demanding use would probably agree.

Re:One point about grey cast iron

[zobier]

I absolutely love my cast iron skillets. I got them from my parents; they're quite old now and have outlasted all the aluminium+Teflon stuff, are much nicer to work with and are non toxic. I just wish I could find more of the same quality.

Re:One point about grey cast iron

[Thelasko]

...and cast iron is a lot easier to make than steel which is why it is still used. The graphite in the cast iron makes it a poor conductor of vibrations. It's also more thermally conductive than steel, and has better wear resistance. These properties make it desirable for things like diesel engine blocks, and pump housings.

Re:One point about grey cast iron

[the phantom]

Indeed. I really love my cast iron, even if the wife can't cook with the 10" or 12" pans -- they are just a little too heavy for her. I was only pointing out a couple of many reasons to prefer cast iron to steel.

Re:One point about grey cast iron

[keytoe]

Well-seasoned cast iron also has other advantages other than being non-stick (not relatively, but most definitely) that include more even and higher temperatures (for superiour browning), requiring no soap and water to clean, and being oven-safe (oven-friendly, actually) so you can cook using using any method or methods you choose.

I fully endorse this comment. Of all the fancy pans I've used over the years, my 10" cast iron has proven to be the best workhorse and provides the most consistent results every time. I've never had to scrub it, it actually helps when you're stuck on a shitty electric burner if you're patient enough to let it come up to temp, you don't have to worry about the toxicity of the 'magic coating' and you get trace amounts of iron in your diet for free. Do yourself a favor and try one out - they cost a fraction of what those fancy pans cost, and they'll last you a lifetime.

Then again, cast iron went out of fashion years ago when women started working in professional kitchens and found them too heavy for regular use

I was going to ding you for making a sexist comment, but my wife refuses to use it because it's unwieldy and heavy ;)

Paper Cut

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't wait to make chinese stars outta this stuff. Brings a whole new meaning to the word papercut.

Ikea furniture was cheap before...

[TRAyres]

But now it will be INDESTRUCTABLE as well!

Fantastic!

Re:Ikea furniture was cheap before...

[enoz]

It will still fall apart with the slightest exposure to moisture though.

Re:Ikea furniture was cheap before...

[Reziac]

And when TFA mentioned "large pores" my first thought was "uh-oh, beware for inkjet users"!

Re:Ikea furniture was cheap before...

[jimicus]

But now it will be INDESTRUCTABLE as well!

Fantastic!

This is Ikea we're talking about. Nothing will make one of their products indestructable.

The Pen

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, they tried that one on me when someone claimed that the pen was mightier then the sword.

cast iron?

[Tmack]

Really, cast iron is weak in comparison to a lot of metals. 130mPa is also the ultimate strength of human bone, which would have made a much more interesting comparison. Cast iron isnt really used as much for anything anymore since steel is much stronger and is almost as cheap. The article's claim to replacing carbon nano tubes is a bit of an exaderation, as they have a strength of 62GPa

Tm

Re:cast iron?

[srothroc]

I think the comparison is a good one, though. Even though we might not use cast iron in much since it's been replaced by steel, this paper offers a greater strength using a material that is more common and easily made. Not only that, but it's lighter than ORDINARY paper, which means it's much, much lighter than cast iron.

When treated with a coating for water- or flame-proofing, this could easily replace wood, plastic, or cardboard in existing situations. Imagine using this in an airplane, for example.

Re:cast iron?

[plover]

Cast iron's not exactly dead. It's still good for producing relatively intricate parts cheaply. As long as you don't require high accuracy on every surface, you can have a really complex part that's only somewhat more expensive than the scrap iron that goes into it.

Think of a thin stationary engine housing with fins to dissipate heat -- you usually don't care if the fins are within 0.25" of where they're supposed to be; as long as air can pass over them they can do their job. As far as the important surfaces, such as the ones that hold the bearings or that mate with another housing, sure, you'll have to machine those. But if you had to machine all those fins from a solid steel block, or cut a bunch and weld them all on, you'd easily spend three times the money on labor and tooling and have a part that doesn't last as long as a casting.

There are many different alloys of cast iron, and they each have their own set of properties. All are much harder than ordinary steels, and usually have excellent wear resistance. Some alloys allow for more intricate castings. Some are easier to machine. And some, such as white iron, are extremely brittle and almost worthless in tensile strength, but can be treated to crazy levels of hardness. It all depends on your application, and in which properties you require. Steel can't simply be "dropped-in" as a replacement material. Hell, sometimes you can't even substitute ductile cast iron for malleable cast iron.

And I wouldn't count on being able to substitute paper for cast iron, either!

Re:cast iron?

[LadyLucky]

Am I the only one that still uses a cast iron frying pan? I find it fantastic - great heat capacity and almost completely non-stick.

Re:cast iron?

[R2.0]

"Cast iron isnt really used as much for anything anymore since steel is much stronger and is almost as cheap."

The drivers of millions of new cars with cast iron engine blocks would disagree with you. CI has many properties that you can't get cheaply with steel.

Re:cast iron?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you season it right it's not almost completely non stick, it's completely non stick.

I have had a piece of cheese burn until it was black and not cheese any more, and it came out with a paper-towel.

Anyone would fear Paper Man, even superheroes..

[RuBLed]

because of Super Paper Cut...

Can you imagine the...

[Anonymous Coward]

paper cuts from this stuff?

Stone, Paper, Scissor ?

[madbawa]

So I guess we're gonna hafta rewrite the rulez for da ol' game.

Only 1.6 times?

[tpheiska]

I would tend to think that "214 megapascals vs. 130 mPa" would be a bit more than 1.6 times bigger, say something in the magnitude of 1e9.

Oh where...

[Offtopica]

OK... Offtopic...

I'm curious, tho!

Where do people go lately? Slashdot has gotten so boring since the trolls were driven out. Kruo5hin is dead Dead DEAD.
Fark is 4chan. And same. Something Awful is a good scratch of the hemorrhoids, nothing more and nothing less. Digg NO. Ever.

Am I missing anything?

Yes. I miss BBSs.

sign me,
OLD

Re:Oh where...

[Anonymous Coward]

We've gotten back into radio and fan forums

-- Other Slashdot Users

Re:Oh where...

[themusicgod1]

reddit?

Re:Oh where...

[Anonymous Coward]

i think everyone is still here, just the numbers of morons grows more and more every day

"let's make technology accessible" they said...

Re:Oh where...

[yoldapirate]

i think everyone is still here, just the numbers of morons grows more and more every day "let's make technology accessible" they said... lmao, true and i guess its proportional to global warning.

Re:Oh where...

[bestiarosa]

Or, inversely proportional to the number of pirates.

This makes me wonder, could it be that pirates feed on morons? We will never probably know now pirates are all gone...

Re:Oh where...

[Goaway]

For all the people who think Slashdotters aren't self-righteous enough!

next time

[Anonymous Coward]

it's "*badum-psht*"

Re:next time

[mrbluze]

it's "*badum-psht*" In some countries that's considered very vulgar, in others it's a very effective pickup line in nightclubs.

Re:next time

[SCHPONG]

I just turn the volume up and open http://trommelyd.no/ in my browser!

So I guess

[ignavus]

So I guess this new paper always wins in "rock, scissors, paper"?

Re:So I guess

[kniLnamiJ-neB]

Nah, scissors still beat paper.

I hope kleenex is strong!

[Corky Devereaux]

Tonight I plan to open my autographed copy of The Difference Engine, paste a picture of myself to the inside flap of the dust jacket, and gaze upon it while masturbating furiously for approximately 20 minutes. I will be away from electro-mail and text-casting during that time. If anyone needs to reach me, please contact my agent.

Re:I hope kleenex is strong!

[Anonymous Coward]

Okay, you wank so much you must be smwhatever (you know, the famous journal/*pedia off-jerker)

Health concerns?

[wtfispcloadletter]

There's already health concerns and risk with other nano technologies, what about paper? I'm around printers all day long and see a great deal of paper dust. What if there were made up of nano particles and got into the respiratory system of people?

Re:Health concerns?

[RHSC]

it might mess up your tinfoil hat

Re:Health concerns?

[VoidCrow]

Mmm...

Let me think...

The best way I can think of to reduce your risk from inhaled nano-particles is to stop breathing. Right now.

But my dog tried to eat my homework!

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah, the solution to the problem of the dog eating your homework.

Durability over time?

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder if the high mechanical strength of this paper translates to good stable archival properties as well... physical records are still important for some things, and cheaper archival quality materials would be a Good Thing.

finally!

[jddj]

...a space elevator we can wrap fish in!

Duh, Cast Irons tensile strength is rather low.

[Anonymous Coward]

Cast Iron is fairly brittle and a lousy comparison for tensile strength.

A return to former tech?

[SiriusStarr]

I wonder if this could be used in the construction of body armor. Paper armor was employed in medieval Japan, and it'd be interesting to see a resurgence. Being paper, it should be fabulously lightweight; I wonder how it stacks up against ballistic impacts...

Re:A return to former tech?

[Kasimir Gabert]

Forget ballistic impacts... water guns!

Re:A return to former tech?

[The Evil Couch]

Sure, just don't use it in a humid and/or hot environment, where there's a good possibility of sweating on it.

Re:A return to former tech?

[SiriusStarr]

Presumably it could be laminated with some water-proofing material. Wax-paper armor just didn't sound as good. (Of course there would be some material better suited to this than wax.)

Paper Golem?

[Associate]

Do they leave shields instead of scrolls?

Charlie Dont Surf....

[get quad]

...and termites dont eat steel.

YOU fAIL IT

[Anonymous Coward]

Discussions On

Card bucking ford!

[Anonymous Coward]

Phucking kick ass! A board made of card!

Does this mean better, more useful origami?

[master5o1]

Like Paper Construction Cranes?

Re:Does this mean better, more useful origami?

[Tomas_Bakke]

No, but it seems that the Japanese may soon have the strongest houses around. Paper houses for everyone.

Re:Does this mean better, more useful origami?

[magus_melchior]

Origami construction crane*? Hits the giant monster AND Japanese art memes. Brilliant!

*Not the vehicle, the other paper crane.

Re:Does this mean better, more useful origami?

[Anonymous Coward]

only if you're man enough to bend it (all Japanese are excluded by default)

you fAIL 1t

[Anonymous Coward]

That have ra6ed

I always knew Paper was strong!

[davester666]

Cuz Paper beats Rock!

Re:I always knew Paper was strong!

[stubob]

And now, Paper may beat Scissors as well.

Re:I always knew Paper was strong!

[butterwise]

Big deal. Tiger hand always beats paper.

Re:I always knew Paper was strong!

[kiehlster]

Chuck Norris always wins in a rock/paper/scissors/tiger-hand contest.

What is Tensile Strength

[mrcaseyj]

serviscope_minor wrote:

icebike wrote:

wood has the highest tensile strength of any building material known to man based either on weight or cross sectional area.

No, steel does...

There seems to be some confusion about what tensile strength is. Tensile strength is how well a material can resist pulling, not bending or compression. A rope can show off the tensile strength of a material even though it has no bending strength or compression strength.

Even when adjusting for weight, the tensile strength of wood isn't so great compared to S-glass or carbon fiber. And when adjusting for cross sectional area, the tensile strength of wood fares even worse because it has a lot of air in its pores.

Re:What is Tensile Strength

[mrbluze]

There seems to be some confusion about what tensile strength is. Tensile strength is how well a material can resist pulling, not bending or compression. Exactly, for example, ordinary toilet paper has poor tensile strength, resulting in many a brown finger for some. Let's hope this will stop with our new, stronger-than-steel paper. On the downside we may expect a few more red fingers.

Re:What is Tensile Strength

[Anonymous Coward]

Look who's confused! Tensile strength is already a "force per cross sectional area" (pascal = newton/m^2). You can't adjust for it again.

Re:What is Tensile Strength

[greyhueofdoubt]

>>Tensile strength is how well a material can resist pulling, not bending or compression.

Bending IS tensile stress (unless you are working with a compressible material). If you bend a beam, you are stretching the side that is becoming convex and attempting to compress the concave side. I suspect you will have a difficult time showing that tensile stress is unrelated to 'bending stress'. Hardness and toughness are also different measures of material strength. They all vary relative to each other depending on material. And, as i've pointed out elsewhere, tensile and shear strengths do not scale equally nor are they related or identical, even in the same material. Read the modulus tables for Fe vs Al alloys sometime- fascinating.

-b

Re:What is Tensile Strength

[street struttin']

Exactly, for example, ordinary toilet paper has poor tensile strength, resulting in many a brown finger for some. Let's hope this will stop with our new, stronger-than-steel paper. On the downside we may expect a few more red fingers. Gross.

Now you can really make paper-knife

[Anonymous Coward]

Use paper knife to cut iron sheets?

Oh come on fellow geeks...

[Anonymous Coward]

But if you have to hang something heavy, Wood is your friend. You people disappoint me.

capacha: emitting

Nanopaper, Does it Flush...?

[unspokenchaos]

would ine ply be good enough...?

Re:Nanopaper, Does it Flush...?

[Spatial]

I think what you meant to ask was, "Will it blend?"

Next top secret government program

[taylorjonl]

Wow, a real live paper airplane :)

Prior art

[Deadstick]

Jules Verne wrote of a paper-constructed aircraft in Robur the Conqueror...

rj

Re:Prior art

[Vectronic]

Don't forget the Spruce Goose aswell, not exactly paper, but laminated wood... which I believe is still the largest (winged) aircraft ever built.

Re:Prior art

[Deadstick]

Nothing special about the Goose except its size...wooden airplanes were very common for a time and aircraft homebuilders still use lots of wood. This story is about paper outperforming wood (as well as some metals).

rj

We may have to re-write the adage

[hyades1]

So it isn't actually the pen that's mightier than the sword, it's what you use it on.

Yeah, until it rains

[cheros]

Given climatic changes I think we may want to think this one over.

I can see someone building a skyscraper, only for the whole thing to fall over because someone has an aiming problem in an urinoir midlevel. And God help you if you want to redo the wallpaper :-).

No! Don't us a steame .. aaaagh!

Joking aside, interesting development. Puts the final nail into the paperless office.

No! Aaargh! I'll stop making bad jokes now! :-)

Re:Yeah, until it rains

[hyades1]

I stand agape, awestruck at the, ahem, "quality" of your response.

I mean, holy sheet, I never reamed that I might provoke such a response. On the other hand, a stationery target should expect to be hit.

Re:Yeah, until it rains

[cheros]

You have no idea what lack of caffeine can do to the human body.

Or maybe I was taking the p*ss, which appears to be fit in well contextually but would counter the suggestion that caffeine depletion was at play. Or I could simply have a sense of humo(u)r not compatible with yours.

However, after this slight detour I'm still left wondering what effect water would have. Would the density preclude ingress of water or would it suck major league?

Ah, the pressure (switched to beer)..

boxes

[Quadraginta]

I would guess the application of interest is shipping boxes and so forth. If you want things well-protected, increasingly important in a shipping industry that uses more robots and conveyor belts and fewer human hands every day, you need strong boxes. Probably even a modest increase in the strength of cardboard would be quite helpful, as it would reduce the fraction of the weight of a shipment that is boxing.

It all depends, really, on whether the processing needed to create "super" paper doesn't cost more than the savings you might enjoy in lower shipping costs per unit weight of product. The fact mentioned in the summary that the original material (wood) is cheap seems quite unimportant.* Steel come essentially from dirt and rock, which is cheap, too. It's the processing that costs.

--------------

* But would I expect a /. editor to know something about materials science and/or economics? I would not.

windows security

[tensop]

so the saying "Windows is as secure as a wet matchbox" could mean slightly less now?

Re:Bow to my ninja skills

[SlowMovingTarget]

And they laughed when I made papier-mâché throwing stars. I'll show them! I am the Paper Ninja (played by Matthew Lillard), and I've just come from OfficeMax!

bigger problems

[Quadraginta]

Oh it's far worse than that. These days, big real-estate developers often skimp on paying for a nice sealant topcoat of plastic grass or concrete, which means exposing the public to potential sources of invisibly fine air-borne nanoparticles containing silicates, sulfates and other nonvolatile chemical compounds, particularly if it's windy and the unsealed areas are exposed to radiation in the 400-700 nm range.

Cast iron a.k.a. pig iron

[flyingfsck]

Cast iron has about zilch tensile strength. So I want to award a big fat DUH there.

Thats not what the article says

[Woundweavr]

nanopaper has the potential to be cheaper than more-exotic, expensive-to-produce nanomaterials such as carbon nanotubes

The submitter made a leap in logic. Just because "cellulose is the most abundant organic compound on the planet" doesn't mean this finished product is "cheap to use". Silicone is cheap to use, but we don't have 1 GB L1 Caches, do we? The production costs involved with making this product aren't mentioned, only that potentially they could be cheaper. But that would require some work and some luck. This is still only a potential and requires more than just cellulose:

They did this by breaking down wood pulp in water with a combination of enzymes and mechanically beating it further. The result: defect-free nanofibers about 1000 times smaller than typical cellulose fibers. As a final step, the researchers treated their nanofibers with carboxymethanol, which coated the fibers in carboxyl groups.

Also, current (semi)practical carbon nanotube material has tensile strength up to 6x what is cited in this article and at the microscopic level is closer to 300x (63 gigapascals according to the all powerful wiki gods).

Re:Thats not what the article says

[Spatial]

Silicone is cheap to use, but we don't have 1 GB L1 Caches, do we? No, but some women definitely do.

New Office Supplies?

[Anonymous Coward]

So WTF am I supposed to do with my scissors, stapler, hole puncher and shredder? This might not be such a great progression in technology after all.

my

[Anonymous Coward]

lets make iron industri from paper than

There is real future for it...

[jozmala]

Think about paper cuts of the past.
Phear my L33t paper plane.

Sweden....

[gramlin]

Paper-Volvo! Bork Bork.

Re:Sweden....

[skulgnome]

I think you mean the Trabant.

Parts of it were actually made of laminated industrial cardboard.

Cast iron is not very strong...

[gweihir]

This comparison is highly suspicuous. You do not use cast iron for anything that needs tensile strenght, as it breaks too easily. Wrought iron is a whole different matter and is what is used in construction of cars, ships, girders, and the like. Cast iron in the shape of a pice of paper could easily broken by hand without tools.

It seems aluminum alloy has about twice the tensile strength of cast iron. Ever tried to rip tinfoil? Not that difficult.

Side note: mPA is milipascals, not megapascals.

Re:Cast iron is not very strong...

[greyhueofdoubt]

On the other hand, aluminum foil is basically pure aluminum, while aluminum alloys contain up to around 10% of either copper, zinc, tin, etc. Some special 7000-series alloys have tensile strengths surpassing some of the softer steels; they are however shockingly expensive and brittle (and they ring like glass when struck).

The aluminum found in aluminum foil would never be used in aircraft construction or anything else requiring strength. While I love materials science, TFA or the researchers (whoever chose this comparison w/ cast iron) are way off base here. Anyone who has worked with thin materials including cast iron knows that tensile and shear strengths do not scale and are not compatible among different metals (example: you can't replace thick aluminum with thinner steel because although the tensile strength may be higher, the shear strength will be lower. This is important in aircraft repair, as some members endure one or both stresses).

Also, tearing a sheet of foil constitutes shear stress, not tensile. A sheet of aluminum foil perfectly supported somehow on both ends so that the force was equal along its length would be stronger than you might imagine. Think of it this way:

12 inch sheet X .005 inch thick= .060" total cross-sectional area

That gives you a wire with diameter of .276". That's a pretty beefy wire even for a soft metal.

-b

Re:Cast iron is not very strong...

[Anonymous Coward]

You raise a good point, but I have a nitpick: Wrought iron is nearly pure iron while cast iron is a high carbon alloy (higher than steel). Cast iron is often picked for large parts suitable for casting and especially those requiring good wear resistance, while wrought iron was popular for applications requiring large, tough parts like railroad rails. Toughness and wear resistance (engineering definitions, not the popular understandings) often don't go together in metals.

Wrought iron has largely been replaced in industry by various alloys of steel, and although improvements in the steelmaking process allowed steel to also economically replace cast iron in a great many applications, its wear resistance (partially due to the large amount of graphite present), natural vibration damping, corrosion resistance, easy machinability, and low cost mean it is still a popular material in many applications. It is still very common to see machinery mounts and other large pieces of industrial hardware made from machined cast-iron.

Also regarding tearing aluminum foil: while the other poster had a good point about alloys, I wanted to add that another reason aluminum foil is easy to rip is simply because it is so thin and flexible that it is easy to create stress concentrations (via creases) that make tears easy to start. The same thing could be accomplished with not too much more difficulty using a steel foil.

Re:Cast iron is not very strong...

[gweihir]

You are right about shear vs. tensile, of course. I did a very sloppy comparison.

It still gives people the right idea about this "as strong as cast iron" nonsense.

122 years earlier...

[Anonymous Coward]

...Jules Verne wrote about a heavier-than-air airship that was made from paper, treated with glue and pressed into shape. the resulting material was "as strong as the best steels, and much lighter", to quote the author.

the novel is called Robur-le-Conquerant (Robur the Conqueror) (1886)

ancient stuff

[Tom]

Note that this is modern paper. Ancient chinese paper was manufactured differently, and kept the fibres largely intact. It was strong enough that there were paper armours manufactured, which could stop an arrow.

Industrial production of paper used a different process, was a ton cheaper, and thus drove the ancient methods to extinction.

Cancer.

[leuk_he]

Note that carbon nanotubes might cause cancer. I wonder how this paper fibers that are threated will be in the health department. Paper sounds fine, but that is the same what they thought of asbestos.

Short fibres

[Chief Camel Breeder]

Shorter fibres: isn't that what happens to paper after multiple recyclings? I wonder if this is what to do with the recycled conventional paper that's no longer good enough evn for newsprint.

Paper airlines

[Anonymous Coward]

Paper airlines have cheap fares but don't fly in rain.

After reading this...

[mapkinase]

... all I can think of is "PAPER CUTS!!!"

Lets fold it

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't think of anything else but japanese and origamis after I read this arcticle.

Talk about Tensile Strenght

[Anonymous Coward]

Look no further.. than mah bawls! Beeyotch.

No more paper allowed on planes

[Jumpin' Jon]

Imagine the horror as some crafty (get it?) terrorist folds a lethal throwing star or blade in the airplane toilet!

Soviet

[Anonymous Coward]

In soviet russia, paper cut you!

In related news...

[egyptiankarim]

Scissors and rocks cower in fear all around the world.

Not really news

[Attila]

Anyone who has ever used a public toilet in Sweden would know that this has been in development for some time.

We're talking one scary assed.........

[Anonymous Coward]

paper cut!

Politician paper

[fitten]

Maybe we can require all governmental writing on it and it would be safe from the shredders!

What happens now to rock, paper, Scissors?

[Anonymous Coward]

A whole next generation of children will now have to alter the age old game.

Must we now call it Paper, Rock, Scissors?
Please think of the children!!

And the effect of fibers on the lungs?

[Colin Smith]

With asbestos fibers, carbon fibers implicated in lung problems it's possible that these fibers will also cause problems.

Re:And the effect of fibers on the lungs?

[awitod]

The problem with asbestos fibers is that they are long, thin, and straight. Lymphocyte's can't deal with them because they can't wrap around them. The carbon nanotubes that are dangerous are the ones that are shaped the same way.

From the photo in the article, they look safe. There are plenty of rough edges for white cells to grapple.

Ouch!

[4ntifa]

Paper cuts! 8-O

Furniture?

[sckeener]

I haven't seen anyone mention this...but I think making furniture out of it would be awesome...

Imagine lifting that heavy couch upstairs...now it would just be bulky!

Paper only beats cast iron if casting is a rock

[Anonymous Coward]

Everyone knows paper covers rock.

Perfect application

[starglider29a]

Wrapping candy bars, USB drives and CD's to make them UTTERLY un-openable.

Re:Perfect application

[CaptainOblivion]

now, cereal BOXES will be impenetrable, as well as the plastic inside!

Serious Paper Cuts

[rocker_wannabe]

Finally! I'll get some respect with this new paper when I get a paper cut! I can say: "Hey buddy, don't you know this paper is stronger than cast iron! I could have lost my whole finger!"

Shut up, Beavis.

[street struttin']

This is hardly surprising given that the source for most paper is wood, and wood has the highest tensile strength of any building material known to man based either on weight or cross sectional area. Heh heh heh heh, you said, "Wood".

Paper Mario

[electricbern]

That's what happens when Paper Mario gets a power mushroom.

I'll beat you...

[Anonymous Coward]

with a large paper bar.

Everbody knows...

[Hasmanean]

cast iron doesn't have any tensile strength to speak of. That's why they don't use it in structural applications. It is made of coarse grains of metal held together a bit loosely. That also makes it very brittle.

You can make lampposts and garden furniture out of it, but not much else nowadays. They use it for table-saw tops and machinery, since those same properties (granular structure) that make it brittle, also enable it to absorb vibrations very well.

Time to Upgrade:

[FurtiveGlancer]

my scissors!

l2units

[WaXHeLL]

214 megapascals vs. 130mPa is 1646x the tensile strength. Of course, they probably meant 130MPa.

Ha!

[Daetrin]

They may say it's stronger than cast iron, but i bet it isn't as good at repelling elves and faeries!

No Contest.

[Tungbo]

Tony Stark will be helpless once he's swaddled in reams of Shareholders' proposals and Warrants investigating his options-back dating schemes.... He'll have to go for a Presidential pardon.

Tensile Strength?

[Anonymous Coward]

While many people have been great in pointing out the shortcomings in the comparison with cast iron, why anyone would even possibly care about the tensile strength of paper is beyond me as a materials scientist. How many times do you hold a piece of paper at both ends and just try to pull it apart? Tensile strength is probably the worst way to classify paper. The best measure in my mind would be either fracture toughness or shear strength. Since paper is usually used in applications where it is very thin, it is subject to various punctures, tears, and rips. The fracture toughness in the presence of these defects is much more interesting with respect to potential applications. The other possibility would be testing mode III shear strength (aka tearing). Since this is the mode by which probably 90% of all paper products fail, either intentionally or unintentionally, this would seem to be a more true measure of a paper's strength.

Another thing many of you seem to neglect is cost. In case you haven't heard, let me be the first to tell you that to reduce/eliminate defects in materials, even a material as abundant as cellulose, is ridiculously expensive because of the processing costs. So don't think supermarkets are going to be upgrading to this stuff to pack your groceries, and really, I would be surprised if this is anything more than an academic stepping stone.

MOD PARENT UP

[Anonymous Coward]

For the love of reading comprehension!

Yawn... old news

[Jay L]

They've been making breakfast-cereal "waxed" liner bags out of this for years.

Will a ...

[SlashDev]

.. samurai sword still cut this thing??

Re:What is Tactile Strength

[An anonymous Frank]

Wood is a better tactile beam; nobody wants to hear about morning steel.

But is it biodegradable?

[slickwillie]

Or will shopping bags made of this stuff outlast plastic ones in the landfill?

I hope I'm not ruining the joke by pointing out...

[Anonymous Coward]

the penis mightier...

No problem...

[Thurmont]

...my paper shredder has a Hemi.

Re:Ironwood

[gavinjolly]

Try "Ironwood", a colloquial name for some hardwood timbers. While working as a structural engineer I designed and supervised the strengthening of an older building to resist the earthquake forces. To install the steel diagonal bracing in the roof we had to drill bolts through the Ironwood beams. The contractor had to use a diamond drill designed for concrete as nothing else worked. Interestingly, the beams were hand shaped as you could see the marks from the tool used. Obviously the old builders (circa 1890) found them harder to work with also.

mollusk glue

[bill_mcgonigle]

Somebody figured out how to synthesize the kind of glue that barnacles and mollusks make for plywood use. It's waterproof and non-toxic. Combine that with this super-strong fiber, and I might actually buy 'particle board' furniture again.

Oh, and 'prior art', bitches.

Can you imagine

[Monsuco]

How horrible a papercut from this would be. You could behead a waterbuffalo with this paper.

Was just thinking about that.

[DRAGONWEEZEL]

Paper coverings work great on Models, and would be awesome to build a plane with if we could scale it.

Me, a Stronger piece of paper could "become" the models instead of EP/EPP that we use now!

Re:Ironwood

[RobertM1968]

I couldnt find Ironwood listed sadly. Especially since there are so many different species with different properties (finding the one that is used for building isn't very easy).

I did have a cane made of it that I picked up in Jamaica a while back (dunno what happened to it).

I seem to recall a tale about it being used to make bearings at one time as well - but that could just be an "old wives tale"

Some species are so hard (and more dense than water) that metal working tools (saws, drills, etc) are actually used to process the wood (instead of using conventional wood tools).

Re:Bow to my ninja skills

[Anonymous Coward]

Born from the toxic soup formed by the chemicals that leeched out of paper mash during recycling - it's Paper Ninja

Yan Ken Pon

[GrassyNoel]

So, paper beats scissors, now?

William Gibson's Virtual Light

[Strange Quark Star]

One step closer to super-light bicycles with paper frames!