China Says It Lacks Skills To Hack US Systems

ScentCone writes "A spokesman for China's foreign ministry says that — China being the 'developing nation' that it is — he doubts that his country has the sophistication to hack foreign systems. This in response to statements by two congressmen regarding apparent probing by China-based crackers into congressional systems for information about communication between US officials and activists in China."

Comments

South Park defense

[Anonymous Coward]

How would we, chinese people with leetle leetle penises have the courage to do something like that against big americans with big penises?

Re:South Park defense

[roystgnr]

http://downloads.southparkstuff.com/sounds/epi310/310_settlesthat.mp3 (NSFW)

Re:South Park defense

[datan]

it's a polite way in China to receive a compliment

Re:South Park defense

[jollyreaper]

How would we, chinese people with leetle leetle penises have the courage to do something like that against big americans with big penises? God, that's the very first line that went through my head when I read the summary. The second line was Americans saying "Aw, shucks, you don't have to be much of a hacker, we don't know anything about system hardening."

Of course, the really ironic thing would be if the Chinese were hacking the American systems to turn them into zombies to spam out ads for penis enlargement pills.

Re:South Park defense

[AvitarX]

China is an amazing culture with lots of fantastic history, and racism/culturalism is bad. That does not mean that taking stereotypes and portraying them as ridiculous is, and most of your "facts" are silly.

China does get into wars (though historically with itself, and is claiming areas taken by the Mongols(Tibet is not historically part of China). Though "The Art of War" advises against fighting, it was not written because of a history of peace.

People started moving out of caves 8,000 years ago, with the advent of agriculture in the fertile crescent.

Re:South Park defense

[ivanmarsh]

That is an asshole thing to say, first of all + SouthPark? Imo, @ least, is a show for small minded idiots, period...

The Chinese ARE a great culture with over 5,000 yrs. of recorded history behind them (when the caucasian race was still in caves that people were already culturally & scientifically advanced, by way of comparison), the only OTHER like it, is India, afaik!

I bet the Chinese have a better sense of humor than you.

Re:South Park defense

[alexborges]

Racism and culturalism is bad.... for OCCIDENT. Chinesse have NO PROBLEM with being chauvinistic, ultranationalists, kind of like the japaneese.

China is the longest living civilization/culture of earth. I would say that they are the most succesfull example of a civilization that the eyes of the world has ever seen.

In 5k years of empire, they got to fuck arround with most of asia, all the way down to indochina, and all the way to the east till japan.

What they are answering now, comes from a culture that is very, very, very smart. Old. Intelligent.

This only is "plausible deniability" at its best. And kudos to the chinesse,they did it very well.

Re:South Park defense

[Yetihehe]

What they are answering now, comes from a culture that is very, very, very smart. Old. Intelligent.

Yeah, especially after cultural revolution (1966-76), when they effectively removed scientists from public life and science never quite reborn after this. Very smart indeed.

Re:South Park defense

[gnick]

If each nuclear warhead we have were to kill 125,000 people, they'd still win. I categorically reject your implied definition of "win".

Re:South Park defense

[pragma_x]

I agree.

The only way to win is not to play.

Re:South Park defense

[Carewolf]

Nonsense. China banned science and innovation more than 500 years ago, and science and technology has not since been more accepted and applied than recently under the so-called communist regime.

Re:South Park defense

[Lord Ender]

You have to consider this - does China get into wars? No... they're NOT that stupid!

You must be Chinese because you know nothing of Chinese history. How about the Korean war? And Tibet? China is still slaughtering peaceful political dissenters. And as a Chinese person you probably know nothing of the slaughter of dissenters at Tiananmen Square.

China gets in wars/military actions like anyone else, but when they do it, the purpose is to take away freedoms.

Re:South Park defense

[smclean]

Right click it, do 'Copy Link Location', paste it in your address bar, hit alt-enter to open in new tab.. :)

Re:South Park defense

[Slime-dogg]

I agree. The only way to win is not to play. Sometimes playing is unavoidable.

Re:South Park defense

[PachmanP]

The only way to win is not to play. See it's exactly that kind of pussyfooting around that's causing this "global warming" thing today. They knew back in the 50s and 60's that fossil fuels would cause warming,and they pushed it to counter the nuclear winter!

Re:South Park defense

[Anonymous Coward]

China was not an Empire for 5000 years. In fact China held most of China for maybe 1000 years in total, but in that time are many epics of fragmentation, and then there is the total Mongol conquest of the country.

If you measure success as length of existance, you could say they are the most successful I guess. I think most folks add many more requirements for 'success' however.

Re:South Park defense

[gnick]

I agree. The only way to win is not to play. Sometimes playing is unavoidable. But, in such situations, winning is often unfeasible. Victory just means losing less.

Re:South Park defense

[Anonymous Coward]

"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference." - Mark Twain

Re:South Park defense

[Bazar]

I've done this argument before many times.

US Congress didn't declare war, what they did was that they gave authorization for Bush to use armed forces in defense of USA and for enforcing UN policies. Thus Giving Bush under conditions, the right to send America into war.

Now heres where things get interesting.
Firstly with Iraq, you were not at peace, you simply had a cease-fire arrangement. Peace was never officially declared after the Gulf war in 1990.
Thus by UN standards, USA never started a war, they simply resumed the Gulf war many years later. Thus they were in compliance with UN requirements

As we know, Saddam broke many un policies, including allowing UN weapon inspection teams.

Because of the refusal in compliance to UN policies, and the authorization from congress a year earlier in defense of UN policies, Bush had legal entitlement to used armed forces.

Thus we find that by legal UN loopholing, and by a no balls/brains congress, Bush legally sent USA into war.

What i also find interesting, is that the USA are still at war with N. Korea, since they never made peace there either, its still a cease-fire arrangement after several decades...
I guess Bush just had his hands too full with Iraq during his terms in office.

Re:South Park defense

[vuffi_raa]

I bet the Chinese have a better sense of humor than you. I am Chinese and I don't find it amusing (the post- not south park- though I think it has gotten really stale as of late).
Honestly there are a lot of us- not just Chinese, but all Asians that get pissed off a lot because it's not okay to use the 'n' word or make black jokes or use derogatory terms for Jews or Hispanics- but I hear Gook and Chink and Slant eyed or and every other term in the book thrown around (my favorite was being called "indian nigger" when I was in the midwest) not to mention the lame assed white guy Chinese accent and it's just fine according to society. Honestly as much as I am not a fan of china (my dad escaped after the revolution) I honestly think it's funny that they are kicking our ass economically and love the fact that Japan and South Korea put our tech to shame because we are so afraid to get our heads out of our asses in this country and take anyone seriously who isn't white.
I couldn't believe the other day I was flipping channels and "mind of mencia" was on and he had some rant about how stupid and dirty chinese people were and seriously, I was really offended. I mean if you were to put any other race in that rant of his most people would be angry, but chinese people *pfft* who cares right? they won't complain, they are a "model minority" because they don't say anything and are good at math (which I am not, really- I work in legal tech but have a degree in fine arts and have taught post graduate studies in design and audio composition and engineering).

Re:South Park defense

[sydneyfong]

You must be Chinese because you know nothing of Chinese history. Heh. And you're the expert now?

How about the Korean war? As I understood it, it was the "western powers" who decided to invade Korea to install a puppet government, and their troops got dangerously close to the Chinese borders. At that time China was considered a "hostile commie state" and if China didn't do something about it there was a high risk of being invaded next.

And Tibet? There wasn't a "Tibetan war". You may be right on a forced occupation, but it wasn't war.

China is still slaughtering peaceful political dissenters. Source? Imprisonment yes, but I've yet to hear people actually being "slaughtered" over this...

And as a Chinese person you probably know nothing of the slaughter of dissenters at Tiananmen Square. And how is this related to "war"? If you're insisting on viewing the Chinese government as evil animals, it still doesn't refute the GP's argument that China isn't *stupid*. I'll give you a view consistent with both -- dissenters are easier to slaughter than militants of hostile enemy states.

China gets in wars/military actions like anyone else, but when they do it, the purpose is to take away freedoms. As I understand it there's no ulterior intent of China to invade other countries just to take away freedoms. That's just plain stupid, and that's what the GP is trying to refute. I don't mind people saying China is "evil" (many governments are), but I really can't stand it when stupid people assume that the Chinese government (and the Chinese in general) are as stupid as they are.

Of course, that being said, I have no idea what the GP is trying to say in general... (sounds like a rant by a drunken troll on crack) But the precise sentence you quoted is spot on. The point is it seems that people assume that China, when it gets "strong", would involve itself in stupid wars on intangible "ideologies", like "depriving other people of freedom", "anti-democracy", "evil oppression", etc. That's just bullsht.

If China was really that war-mongering, it'd have invaded Taiwan already. Instead, it's going through negotiations to improve cross strait relationships (as long as the Taiwanese government isn't pressing for outright "independence", whatever that means) ... if it's not invading Taiwan, why on Earth would it try to invade other countries?

Please enlighten me.

so..

[Anonymous Coward]

They threaten to hack the universe and boast about hitting powerplants and such.. then a month or two later they get accused of hacking an important computer system and they suddenly don't have the sophistication to do so?

China lacks the skills?

[AmazingRuss]

Lacks the skills to lie convincingly to anybody it doesn't have the power of life or death over, more like.

Re:China lacks the skills?

[Rogerborg]

It's not a lie, it's a strategy to receive compliments. Clearly Chinese men have issues with very low self esteem. I wonder what that could be based on?

Re:China lacks the skills?

[datan]

it's part of the Chinese culture. The polite way to receive a compliment is to be modest; in fact it's bad manners to receive a compliment without protest...so in this case, the Chinese foreign ministry is merely being polite

Re:China lacks the skills?

[tirerim]

Right, because lying in the course of giving compliments, as Americans do as an integral part of our culture, is so much better.

Re:China lacks the skills?

[Anonymous Coward]

it's part of the Chinese culture. The polite way to receive a compliment is to be modest; in fact it's bad manners to receive a compliment without protest...so in this case, the Chinese foreign ministry is merely being polite I think you're confusing Chinese culture with Japanese. While effusively praising others is an intrinsic part of life both nations, the excessive personal humility the permeates all aspects of Japanese life isn't really common in China.

Re:China lacks the skills?

[ceoyoyo]

Part of the Chinese culture? That little tradition used to be polite behaviour in the west too.

Re:China lacks the skills?

[aplusjimages]

Maybe its true. Maybe they hired the CIA to spy on those two Congressman to make sure they weren't going to do anything to embarrass the Chinese Government during the Olympics.

Re:China lacks the skills?

[Maestro485]

They don't lack skills...

...they rack disciprine

Re:China lacks the skills?

[value_added]

Part of the Chinese culture? That little tradition used to be polite behaviour in the west too.

Not to the extent it is elsewhere.

A friend of mine told me a funny story years ago of his parents when they first arrived in the US. His mother received an invitation from the neighbours for a housewarming dinner. When she arrived, the hostess came up to her and suggested she help herself from the buffet. The conversation proceeded along the following lines:

"No, thank you."

"You really must."

"I'm sorry, but I really shouldn't."

"I insist."

"Thank you for your hospitality, but I really can't."

"Ok. Suit yourself, then."

When his mother returned home in tears, her husband asked her what had happened. She said she had never felt so insulted, and didn't eat a thing. When he asked why she didn't eat anything, she replied, "The hostess didn't insist the third time!"

Re:China lacks the skills?

[gnick]

Part of the Chinese culture? That little tradition used to be polite behaviour in the west too. Indeed - In fact my politeness excels beyond that of nearly all others because of my great humility. I may be the most humble person I know - Which is even more impressive because I have so little to be modest about and so many great qualities that I politely refrain from boasting.

To attempt to quote an old Mac Davis tune that I remember from the Muppet Show:
Oh Lord it's hard to be humble when you're perfect in every way
I can't wait to look in the mirror 'cause I get better lookin' each day
To know me is to love me, I must be a hell of a man
Oh Lord it's hard to be humble, but I'm doin' the best that I can

Re:China lacks the skills?

[eatfastnoodle]

Japanese culture is Heavily influenced by China, You would be amazed by how many Chinese characters there are in Japanese. Chinese who speak no Japanese and Japanese who speak no Chinese can communicate with each other using pen and a piece of paper. As for the statement, They just don't think it's a matter worthy of serious response. Of course they know nobody would believe it, modern Chinese culture are very pragmatic and very goal-oriented, they don't like to infuse too much morality into their discussion. In their view, everybody spies on everybody else, it's just how things work, they didn't whine to CNN or the statement department about CIA spying on China. why did the USãmake such a big deal out of it?

Re:China lacks the skills?

[rworne]

There's a big difference between a phonetic alphabet and an lolograph based language.

To English and German, an "A" is an "A" and really does not mean anything in and of itself. The alphabet denotes sounds that when strung together have a meaning.

In Chinese and Japanese, each character has a specific meaning in itself. It is that meaning that carries between both languages - one does not even need to know how to pronounce the character to understand its meaning.

Re:China lacks the skills?

[JeanPaulBob]

Right, because lying in the course of giving compliments, as Americans do as an integral part of our culture, is so much better.

Hmm... Kudos. That is very insightful of you.

Bald face liars.

[alextheseal]

So who did it then, elves?

Re:Bald face liars.

[InlawBiker]

If a teenager from Seattle can hack WOPPER with an acoustic modem and 8-bit computers....

Re:Bald face liars.

[antifoidulus]

China loves using this "developing nation" bullshit whenever it wants to try to elicit sympathy or otherwise justify their actions. Want to pollute as much as you want? "We are a developing nation!" Want to not have to play by WTO rules? Again, "Developing nation"

If China actually WERE a developing nation, that stuff wouldn't be so bad. But China has 0 problem throwing its weight around places like Sudan where it uses its ginormous reserves of foreign currency and military know-how to help the Sudanese slaughter their own citizens in exchange for oil.

China, if you want the benefits of being one of the big boys, you are going to have to pay the costs as well. This whole "we are a developing nation when it suits us" bullshit has got to stop, but unfortunately anyone who is actually in a position to make them play by the rules is either a cheater themselves or just so hypnotized by the theoretical promise of China that they refuse to do anything about it.

Yeah, right

[the eric conspiracy]

China has the money and skills to build the Great Firewall. They are clearly capable.

Re:Yeah, right

[hardburn]

Not to mention that a lot of the key mathematics that broke MD5 was done by Chinese cryptographers, among quite a few other mathematical and scientific breakthroughs over the last few years. Saying they don't have the capability is absurd.

Re:Yeah, right

[flosofl]

Yes it was broken.

On 1 March 2005, Arjen Lenstra, Xiaoyun Wang, and Benne de Weger demonstrated[8] construction of two X.509 certificates with different public keys and the same MD5 hash, a demonstrably practical collision. The construction included private keys for both public keys. A few days later, Vlastimil Klima described[9] an improved algorithm, able to construct MD5 collisions in a few hours on a single notebook computer. On 18 March 2006, Klima published an algorithm[10] that can find a collision within one minute on a single notebook computer, using a method he calls tunneling.

The concern is less for password hashing than for cryptographic signatures based on MD5. It destroys one of the principles of a crypto signature: non-reputability. By being able to create an arbitrary collision, that is removed.

Here's a good site to give you an overview.

He then followed...

[MrBippers]

...they generally outsource all their hacking in exchange for WoW gold.

step 1, hide source

[Keruo]

For talented crackers, it would be relatively easy to cover their tracks by using several compromised machines as proxies for their attack.
China has large internet user base and the average Jin would likely secure their home machine as well as average Joe across the ocean.

Re:whats more likely

[jimbobborg]

Read the fine article. Quoted from second article:

"The extent of the intrusions on Capitol Hill, which officials said began in August 2006, was unclear, although Rep. Frank R. Wolf (R-Va.), whose office had four computers affected, said that other members of Congress were targeted, as well as at least one congressional committee. "They got everything," Wolf said at a news briefing, describing the attack on his office systems.

Wolf said that after one of the attacks, a car with license plates belonging to Chinese officials went to the home of a Chinese dissident in the Washington suburbs and took photographs of it."

If they're not sophisticated enough

[anglico]

then how did one of their submarines pop up in the middle of one of our Navy carrier groups undetected?

Re:If they're not sophisticated enough

[Mikkeles]

Buoyancy.

Re:If they're not sophisticated enough

[jollyreaper]

then how did one of their submarines pop up in the middle of one of our Navy carrier groups undetected? Buoyancy. With all the lead that goes into the typical Chinese product? Really?

Re:Considering the age of China....

[Paranatural]

Why would they need to have any skill at it at all? They have no independent news sources. It's all state propaganda machines. After 50 years of that nonsense the average Chinese citizen has no real ability to question authority, thus the ability of people in authority to convincingly lie is lower.

They ough to hire Tariq Aziz!

[Dareth]

If they can get the US to let him go, Tariq Aziz, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariq_Aziz would make the perfect spokesperson for the Chinese denial of attacks.

Not just educated there...

[Notquitecajun]

Remember, they readily come here to get educated at our grad schools as well. Not only could they have learned there, they could have learned HERE as well.

Right...

[JakeD409]

I'm far too simple-minded to post a satirical comment on Slashdot.

Re:Could have fooled me..

[TheLazySci-FiAuthor]

I'll warm myself with these flames, thank you.

I think your point (intentional or not) is in fact quite valid. In a country of billions how could there not be at least a few with the innate talent needed to accomplish this?

Given, skill and talent are seperate but related things - talent you have or don't, skill you use or lose - yet with the right amount of inherent ability and the drive to learn, what isn't possible?

Obligatory

[PPH]

Nothing to see here, western capitalist lackeys. Move along.

DAMN YOU!

[db32]

I almost died! I almost choked on my lunch reading this summary. I sit down...take a bite, open slashdot, and nearly choke! Damn you editors!

I propose that stories with claims THAT ridiculous this should have title and summary hidden with a warning so that readers eating or drinking can be prepared! I mean really...think how many geeks you might endager with a headline of "Openly Gay Republican Elected to Office"

Re:Ah, naivety at its finest

[ScentCone]

that's what the Navy said to convince people like you to give them more money

No, that's what the Navy said to make the Chinese feel overly confident and to underestimate our ability to track them. Classic move... make your opponent complacent enough that you can then later make them completely doubt their ability to do anything when you rip the rug out from under them, as the situation warrants. Nothing makes people doubt their abilities more than the sudden discovery that they've been completely wrong about their own success. We should know (as should the former Soviets and everyone else), since it's happened to us, too.

Developing nations dont have a space program

[alanshot]

Sorry, the Developing nation excuse is lame. Developing nations dont produce and design electronics devices, design and build ICBMs, submarines, warships, launch GPS satellites, etc.

And using thier logic, the USA is also a developing nation. Maybe we are a little more developed, but we still have a way to go and are making progress.

Re:whats more likely

[ceoyoyo]

The obvious question I haven't heard anybody ask: why did these congressmen have sensitive information on machines connected to the Internet?

In spy stories you commit things to memory because they're too dangerous to write down. Have we degenerated to the point where you not only write things down but you put them on the Internet with a big sign saying "steal me?"

Re:Beowulf Cluster

[VeNoM0619]

Finally! We have used a pixar movie for our wisdom. I'm glad our kids are watching these things. Now to find a "Cars" reference...

Sun Tzu

[lufo]

18. All warfare is based on deception.
19. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable; [...]

The art of war, Sun Tzu (6th. cent. B.C.), I.18 and 1.19

I'm skeptical

[Mongoose Disciple]

I can't buy China's official story on this one.

Damn you, falling U.S. dollar!

China holds a trillion dollars of US debt

[Colin Smith]

"Hence to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting." Said over 2500 years ago. That's before Jesus Christ superstar, btw.

You should all read Sun Tzu and have a bash at playing "Go" as well.

Re:Ah, naivety at its finest

[hey!]

American XO: here he comes.
American CO: wait for it ...

[Chinese sub pops to the surface]

American CO (over radio): Lordy! Where do you come from?
Chinese CO: Where did you come from? I hope I am not interrupting anything?
American CO: Oh, nothing important. You sure surprised me, popping up out of nowhere like that!
Chinese CO: Did I? Please excuse me! We had no idea anybody was up here. We're having a little trouble with our engines!
American CO: Do you need help?
Chinese CO: Any chance you could give us a jump?

[American XO and CO exchange looks]

American CO: Uh, sure, can you take 440 volts?
Chinese CO: One moment, I check with engineer...

[sounds of argument in Chinese]

Chinese CO: So sorry. My Engineer says 440 volt no work!
American XO: That's not right, they should have...
American CO (cutting in): Uh, don't you have an operators manual or something?
Chinese CO: Engineer says cook used pages to wrap leftovers. No problem, I fix

[sound of large spanner being whacked against steel hull of sub]

Chinese CO: Hah! Now engines go!
American CO: That's very amazing! You fixed your boat by whacking the hull with a spanner?
Chinese CO: Oh, yes, you know us primitive Chinamen. Our boats are junk! Get it? Junk! Ha ha!
American XO and CO: Ha ha!
Chinese CO: Well engine make go now, so we leave. We be lucky to make back to Hainan without sinking.
American CO: I'll be lucky to make it back to Honolulu without having a heart attack. You took ten years off my life, popping out of nowhere like that! I honestly had no idea there was anybody else in the area.
Chinese CO: Sorry! We not know you here, really. You know Chinaman navigation equipment! No good! We go in straight line until bump into something!
American CO: Sorry to hear that. I hope you stay clear of us, we run into things all the time, since I dropped my sextant.
Chinese CO: Me too, since lousy Chinese boat leak on my chronometer! I go now! Bye!
American CO: Bye!

[Chinese sub submerges]

American CO (under breath): Asshole.
Chinese CO (under breath): Asshole.