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China Launches Antitrust Probe Vs. Microsoft

snydeq writes "China has launched an investigation into whether Microsoft unfairly dominates its software market, according to a state media report. A working committee of China's State Intellectual Property Office is investigating whether Microsoft engaged in discriminatory pricing and will also look at Microsoft's practice of bundling other software programs within its Windows operating system, according to the report. The probe is part of a greater sweep of operating systems and other software developed by multinational companies that cost much more in China than in the U.S. 'On the one hand, global software firms, taking advantage of their monopoly position, set unreasonably high prices for genuine software while on the other hand, they criticise Chinese for poor copyright awareness. This is abnormal,' a source said."

22 of 295 comments (clear)

  1. Wha? by wamerocity · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't think you can call it a monopoly if all the companies software in your country is pirated.

    --
    "Thank you for using Stop-n-Drop, America's favorite suicide booth since 2008"
    1. Re:Wha? by hey! · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, given that said company wants the country to do something about it, then whether the way they set and enforce prices is legal in that country is certainly a relevant question. If Microsoft is calling upon China to enforce its intellectual property laws, it can hardly complain if China agrees, but also insists on enforcing its anti-trust laws.

      --
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    2. Re:Wha? by megaditto · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The Chinese plan is different from the US plans, how, exactly? American plan: America should be on top.
      Chinese plan: America should not be on top.

      I think most Americans can see the difference.
      --
      Obama likes poor people so much, he wants to make more of them.
    3. Re:Wha? by megaditto · · Score: 5, Informative

      No, you are wrong. I wish people would stop calling China "communist," since it is not. Their economic system is a free-market capitalism, with elements of fascism (the original definition - "authoritarian union between the government and big businesses" - not the Gowin/deathcamp definition).

      Their political system is dictatorship, since they are governed by unelected representatives. Hence, the correct description for China would be capitalist dictatorship.

      The reason they don't like Microsoft (or Google) is because the profits go to USA instead of to their government-endorsed corporations like China Telecom, Nuesoft, Baidu, Kingsoft, etc. And we are not talking peanuts here either: last year Microsoft alone paid about US$ 7,000,000,000 in taxes, 70+% of which came from foreign sales.

      --
      Obama likes poor people so much, he wants to make more of them.
    4. Re:Wha? by magarity · · Score: 4, Informative

      you are wrong. I wish people would stop calling China "communist"
       
      Actually, the gp said China was run by the communist party, which is 100% correct. His error is in thinking that any given communist party has the opposite agenda as a monopoly. On the contrary, communist parties are notorious for ruling as monopolies. Meanwhile, you are correct about the self-designated "communists" but that's another matter.

    5. Re:Wha? by jc42 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I wish people would stop calling China "communist," since it is not.

      Look at it this way: China is Communist in the same sense that America is Christian.

      The leaders of both nations use the name, but they pretty much violate all the principles behind the name.

      Of course, they're not the only country for which this is true.

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  2. Par for the course by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Don't read too much into the story. All it means is one more high party official is looking to get his share of payments to the top officials in China. Once a few million $ are safely handed over, the probe will be frozen, to be thawed only during the negotiations of the next payment.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  3. The Microsoft Lottery by suck_burners_rice · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In other words, China is jumping on the bandwagon of countries that is playing the "Sue Microsoft Lottery" to get some extra cash. I mean, I don't like Microsoft's products, particularly their operating systems, because I think they've completely lost touch with what a computer is supposed to do, but when it comes down to it, it's our fault, not Microsoft's, that their junk software is so ingrained in the entire computing industry. We are the ones who vote with our dollars, and so, if you don't like Microsoft, or their software doesn't get the job done for you, then don't pay them your money. But don't wine and complain about them either. And certainly don't play the Microsoft lottery. That's ridiculous.

    --
    McCain/Palin '08. Now THAT's hope and change!
    1. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by BlueParrot · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I have an alternative interpretation.

      If you don't like the rules in the country you try to do business in, then don't do business there, and don't whine when their courts fine you for breaking them. Or perhaps this issue is a little bit more complex than a one sentence argument?

    2. Re:The Microsoft Lottery by RiotingPacifist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You clearly dont have a clue about anti-competitive practices of Microsoft and how monopolies & cartels stop market forces working, meaning that "We are the ones who vote with our dollars, and so, if you don't like Microsoft, or their software doesn't get the job done for you, then don't pay them your money." doesn't really apply when there is no other option.

      --
      IranAir Flight 655 never forget!
  4. Re:What? by flyingfsck · · Score: 4, Informative

    China isn't any more communist than for example the UK, Canada or Australia.

    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
  5. Antitrust over the 1 copy of Windows? by fprintf · · Score: 5, Funny

    So there is an anti-trust investigation over the one legitimate copy of Windows in China?

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    This post brought to you by your friendly neighborhood MBA.
  6. Re:What? by wattrlz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Except for the part where they proclaim to be.

  7. Re:What? by meringuoid · · Score: 5, Insightful
    What use would Communist China have for anti-Trust laws

    China is being heavily leant upon by the US and its stooges to do something about their prevailing culture of piracy - you know, the great DVD markets of Hong Kong and Shanghai where every film is available a month before it reaches the cinema, all that stuff. It's all to do with international trade agreements; China gets to make more money selling abroad if they stop ripping off Hollywood and Silicon Valley.

    Hitherto China has been happily ignoring Microsoft's monopoly by simply pirating everything. If they're going to go legit then they're going to make damn sure they don't end up paying through the nose for it, so they're raising the same monopoly issue that the US and the EU have done. After all, if China is going to play fair, then so must Microsoft.

    --
    Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
  8. Re:What? by Robert1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You're totally right. They aren't communist. What they are is fascist.

    "Anti-individualistic, the fascist conception of life stresses the importance of the State and accepts the individual only insofar as his interests coincide with those of the State, which stands for the conscience and the universal will of man as a historic entity.... The fascist conception of the State is all-embracing; outside of it no human or spiritual values can exist, much less have value.... Fascism is therefore opposed to that form of democracy which equates a nation to the majority, lowering it to the level of the largest number...."

    Best description of China I ever read. That's straight from Mussolini's "The Doctrine of Fascism."

    On a related note anyone read the article on how Chinese police jailed parents who tried to go back to the faulty death-traps - I mean schools - their government had built. The police were also instructed to keep foreign press away from the schools and to not let anyone take photos. A pretty good example of how the most important thing is the state above all - including it seems the needless deaths of children.

  9. Princess Bride by Ukab+the+Great · · Score: 5, Funny

    China To Microsoft: "You're trying to have a monopoly on what we've rightfully stolen"

  10. Re:What? by Hal_Porter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    China isn't any more communist than for example the UK, Canada or Australia. There's a school of thought that says that German Nazism in WWII and Russian Communism were essentially two identical versions of the same system which just claimed to be different. Of course Hitler and Stalin had different hate groups, but the actual systems they built were in practice very similar.

    So it's quite possible for a Communist country like China to change their official ideology to Han Chinese nationalism and corporate state/slave labour capitalism and still be just as far from the UK, Canada or Australia.

    So don't be fooled that they given up on 'Communism'. The PRC was never very socialist anyway, most European democracies went much farther down that path.
    --
    echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
  11. Re:What? by immcintosh · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I claim to be the King of Prussia. Doesn't make it so, anymore than China's claims make it genuinely communist.

  12. Re:More communist lies by stormguard2099 · · Score: 4, Funny

    and maybe you'll start to see why people pirate. because there's no year of the linux desktop on the chinese calendar?
    --
    http://greenobyl.com/ please.... think of the children!!
  13. Re:Step 3 of 5 to economic collapse. by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 5, Insightful
    My, the ignorance is breathtaking. Wishful thinking, at best.

    China is *hugely* inefficient, which is mostly masked by their huge growth. One thing that you have to remember is that the Chinese economy has *never* gone down in living memory. It's all up, up, up since Mao died and the national nightmare ended. This results in things like people opening businesses with no idea what they're doing, and the business succeeds anyway due to runaway demand. I see small shops open and close all the time, and it's the same story - no plan, no strategy, no marketing. It's just 'I'll open the doors and people will flood in.' The Chinese are geniunely shocked when they don't, and can't figure out what they did wrong. Really. Massive inefficiency is a hallmark of a prolonged boom (more annoying facts again - don't worry, I won't include any math) and China has been a boom (14%+ growth) for 30 years.

    The Chinese don't invent new things, which is going to really start hurting in a few years when all their low-cost manufacturing isn't low-cost any more. I see it every day, a lot of people really don't know how to solve problems except for copying someone else, even to the point of investing huge efforts into it. Just think of how much better off China would be if they had developed their own indigenous computer systems instead of just pirating Windows. And no, I have yet to see a single installation of this "Red Flag" linux that someone always spouts off about. China does in fact have IPR laws, and they do work, but you have to actually follow them. Speaking of laws, there is a new anti-monopoly law in effect this year, and it's going to be used by the government as a club to bash foreign enterprises. Of course, Chinese monopolies are safe. Remember, cheating foreigners is patriotic.

    Anyway, that's just my personal experience. Feel free to keep wishing hard for America to fall and China to rise. For further reading, for those of you who made it this far, check here (true today as when it was written) and Danwei and China Law Blog. Sorry to inject facts into the fantasy exercise - I realize it's a downer.

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  14. Re:What? by TheNarrator · · Score: 4, Interesting
    China's economic ideology is different from the west. Let me explain how:

    U.S
    * Banker makes loan to whoever they damn well please.
    * Loan doesn't get re-paid
    * Other bank takes over banks assets and screws depositors over 100k.
    China:
    * Banker makes loan to favored state owned company or other entity.
    * Loan doesn't get re-paid.
    * Government recapitalizes bank.

    U.S
    * Banker makes a bunch of questionable bad loans
    * Retires with golden parachute package
    China
    * Banker makes a bunch of questionable bad loans
    * Banker is executed by government

    U.S
    * Bankers en masse make loans to fund housing/stock bubble
    * Government runs to see how they can loosen regulations to help the banks make exponentially more money and profit
    * Bubble bursts, banks are bailed out by government discount window loans, TAF, TSLF,etc

    China
    * Bankers en masse make loans to fund housing/stock bubble
    * About 1 year after it gets going government raises real estate transfer tax or stock trading taxes and bank reserve requirements to purpousefully punish the speculators.
    * Bankers who make ridiculous corrupt loans are executed. Some banks who didn't get swept up in the bubble keep operating as usual

    Long story short. In China, unlike in America, the politicians actually have far more control of the economic activity in their country than the bankers do.

  15. Re:What? by thewils · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's because the the IOC like the secrecy of the Chinese Government better than any democracy. The worst games for the IOC were Lillehammer where everything was in the open - including the bribes paid to IOC officials to host the games.

    --
    Once I was a four stone apology. Now I am two separate gorillas.