Children Concerned By Parents' Web Habits

praps writes "Children are becoming increasingly worried about their parents' Internet habits, according to a report just released in Sweden. Unsurprisingly, dads surfing for pornography is the most common problem, but chatroom addiction also featured in the report — as is a mother who has become obsessed with World of Warcraft. 'This summer she has been sitting up all day and all night and she forgets what's important to me,' wrote the woman's 13-year-old daughter. 'And when she's not at the computer she's like a lost soul. She just looks straight ahead and says nothing.'" There are also a lot of scammers out there who like nothing better than to find retirees who they can sucker into get-rich-quick schemes involving real-estate, stock options, and convincing the neighbors to be part of a "downstream" for MLM marketing ploys.

Comments

WoW

[EriktheGreen]

The WoW thing could be bad... depends on whether she's chatting/enjoying herself, or whether she's actually addicted. The Dad surfing for porn thing is normal though.

Re:WoW

[EraserMouseMan]

I've never played WoW. I've got a few friends who do. One told his wife he'd quit after he got to level 70. He's achieved level 70 and now he's going for all upgraded gear and getting "epiced" (or something). Is there any end? Or is the game built so you never really become king of the hill? Is there always another carrot out there to keep you coming back?

Re:WoW

[EriktheGreen]

Let's put it this way: If possible they never want to lose a subscriber, ever.

You can't win the game... it's like a never ending soap opera or comic book. Actually providing resolution so people walk away is not in the plan.

There's always another carrot.

Erik

Re:WoW

[Awptimus Prime]

The Dad surfing for porn thing is normal Agreed. My dad had a big stash of hardcore magazines he kept locked away in one of his shop cabinets, my grandfather kept a big stash of lower quality stuff in his garage. Just because this generation gets it on the computer, doesn't mean the concepts are anything new.

I can agree, somewhat, that the younger people have some gripe about their parents fiddling around in chatrooms or WoW, but kids of previous generations often dealt with parents that were either gone fishing, drinking, or like one of my parents and buried in novels endlessly. It was much the same thing, if she wasn't holding a book, she'd be rather distant, would read through the family tv time, would skip meals to find out what the next chapter holds and when one book was finished, it was off to the next one. It seems more like humans exhibiting the same particular types of behavior through different conduits.

Re:WoW

[EriktheGreen]

It's not the amount of time, it's the ability to go without or put down the game for other reasons, real-life or otherwise, and whether or not playing is a detriment to your life.

If you suspect addiction, then take a break, and if you're really not sure, see a psych. or counselor.

It's supposed to be for-fun, to enhance your life, not replace it.

BTW, I play WoW too, mostly at night before bed, when I have time.

Re:WoW

[caffeinemessiah]

'And when she's not at the computer she's like a lost soul. She just looks straight ahead and says nothing.'"

Correlation and causation, folks. Sigh. It's highly unlikely that WoW took a perfectly normal mother and converted her into a zombie like this. These symptoms are indicative of deeper psychological issues that manifest in an unhealthy obsession with WoW. So WoW not having an "ending" is hardly an issue -- people can get addicted to anything that offers escapism, and the fact that this mother is addicted to WoW is not a cause to point fingers at WoW. And I speak as someone who stopped playing warcraft after warcraft 2 back in the 90s.

Re:WoW

[Opportunist]

It doesn't end. That's the whole point.

People pay per month. In other words, the maker of an MMORPG gets money as long as someone plays it. So the goal is to make people play as long as possible.

How is this done? By dangling carrots in front of people. There is yet another boss to kill, yet another item to get. And that's what WoW like every long running MMORPG is about: Items.

You get them by killing bosses. But not every time. They drop it once in a while. So you have to kill bosses over and over to get your item. And you don't just need one. You need a set. A helm, a chestpiece, a pair of boots, a sword, a shield. Each of them dropped at some other boss.

To get to such a boss, you have to defeat his minions, pretty much like in a plain old platform game. The size of those areas makes sure that in any given evening, you can only do it once or maybe twice. In other words, two shots an evening to get an item that drops about every tenth time, and you need about 8 such items to have your gear.

Well, the gear to get the next gear. You see, you can't just level to 70 and then go into the top dungeon. You won't make it. You first have to get other gear that gives you the bonus points you pretty much need to even stand a chance in other dungeons. WoW is now, IIRC, at "Tier 6". I.e. you do that whole thing six times before you're at the top.

To make it less trivial, you can't do that alone. You have to find a group to do something like this. And since you can't just depend on some random freaks (I mean, would you want to waste an entire evening to find out the healer you signed up is a complete tool?), you usually do that in more or less constant groups. People form guilds, clans, whatever the name, i.e. groups of people you more or less can trust.

This is another quite strong incentive for many people to keep playing, since they don't want to let their "friends" down. They "depend" on you to some degree.

And since not everyone has time every evening, such "raids" are usually not done every night. Most of the time, you can get a shot at a boss about twice a week.

So let's calc'. Twice a week, two runs an evening. Let's be generous and say you can raid five times a week (unless you are in one of the guilds that really have no life anymore). Five tries on something that drops about once out of ten times (and let's assume the unrealistic situation that you "may" always take it, i.e. that nobody else with "more right" to the item gets it, should it drop) means that you're busy about two weeks to get one of your set items. Now let's furthermore assume you don't go on raids into dungeons that you don't need at all because nothing you need drops there, but your healer friend needs it and he won't come along for your sword (because there's nothing to gain there for him) if you don't help him. But let's assume that doesn't happen.

Then you're busy two weeks per item, eight items a set, six sets to go.

Do the math yourself when you'll be "done". The only question that remains is, will it be before or after Tier 7 comes along? Or tier 8, tier 9...

Re:WoW

[caffeinemessiah]

they are specifically designed to hit our reward centers in consistent ways.

In other words, they are designed to be consistently enjoyable. I could say the same thing about sunny beaches, and yet not everyone goes giving up their lives to become beach bums.

Re:WoW

[billcopc]

CmdrTaco needs to raise the mod point cap to 50, because even at +5 you deserve to be modded up.

I started playing WoW a few years ago, at a time when I was depressed out of my skull, but I just didn't know it yet. I eventually reached a point where I was too depressed to haul my sorry ass to work in the morning, so I called in dead and played WoW 16 hours a day for months. I didn't code, I didn't hack, I barely left the apartment. Eventually the anti-depressant meds kicked in and I was wired into semi-sanity. By the time I got back to 90% normal and had found myself a new job, I stopped playing WoW, just quit cold turkey.

I fired it up again a few weeks ago, to try out a private server... I found it all extremely boring and quit after a few days. That tells me the WoW playing was a symptom of my depression, not the cause. It was the only thing easy enough to do, that didn't get shot down by my total lack of motivation.

I think the WoW mom needs to see her doctor, and a therapist.

Re:WoW

[Gewalt]

People say that alot, but... I went through a few phases... I was completely addicted to my family and my job til a friend convinced me to do a 30 day trial of wow. Then I became addicted to that and only that. Sure, maybe I'm just one depressed son of a gun. Maybe I just needed an escape, sure.. But I kinda liked my old escapes better than when WoW was my escape.

I did manage to quit wow, and have since turned my addictions to spending time with my kids... but I gotta tell you... It was hairy there for a while...

Re:WoW

[Cookie3]

>You first have to get other gear that gives you the bonus points you pretty much need
>to even stand a chance in other dungeons. WoW is now, IIRC, at "Tier 6". I.e. you do
>that whole thing six times before you're at the top.

Just a point of clarification:
WoW's tiered systems work in conjunction with a "gear reset" (or "mudflation", if you prefer the negative term) each expansion. Quest rewards from each expansion will roughly equal the tiered rewards you earn from raiding previously.

For example:
In classic WoW, a level 60 player might go to MC, BWL, and Naxx (raid dungeons), and get Tier 1-3 armor.
In BC (the first expansion), a level 60 player can still go to the old raid dungeons for gear, OR they can do solo/small group quests for similar rewards (while simultaneously leveling to 70). If you do many quests and dungeons, you will be wearing gear that is similar to Tier 3 once you arrive at level 70, and be ready immediately for Tier 4 content, even if they've never set foot in any of the previous Tiers (raids) before.

Blizz has already said the same sort of gear reset will occur for WotLK. A new level 80 player in WotLK will be wearing Tier 6-equivalent quested gear, and will be immediately ready for Tier 7 content.

Re:WoW

[johndmann]

Not debunking that it is excessive, but your math is flawed due to your lack of play mechanics (no offense meant, you're just underinformed is all).

Yes, there are 6 tiers of equipment, but the first three are remnants from level 60, all but useless, and almost noone even tries for them, except for maybe nostalgia. Tier 4 is even becoming dated enough that most people skip it and jump right into Tier 5. Thus, there are usually only 2 tiers to go through.

Another number change for your formula is that there are not eight items in each set. T4 and T5 only have 5 pieces. T6 has 8.

Also, there is Player vs. Player (PvP) gear available which is as good as each of the tiers. Most players go to the battlegrounds between raids, which is more time, yes, but results in less actual raiding. PvP gear is "guaranteed", whereas the Tier stuff, you just have a chance at getting. If you waste enough time each day in-game (oh, say 12-14 hours a day), you can get the equivalent of Tier 5 in PvP gear in less than a week.

Supposedly, there will be no more Tiers ever again, that they are going to a new system, but still, there will be upgrades at some point, yes.

Your statements have the correct intent, just a bit exaggerated due to the game working differently than your math made it seem. It's actually much shorter of a time, and much easier to get the top level gear than it used to be way back when.

A great number of people are stopping their subscriptions with WoW due to how easy it is to "max out" the game, even when new content rolls out, they just devour it in hardly any time at all. In the past it used to be a challenging game compared to what it is now. Blizzard has slowly "dumbed down" the game so that they can obtain a larger user base who want a casual game.

Re:WoW

[caffeinemessiah]

Video games can be engineered to be addictive in a way that no non-interactive media or experience can be.

That is a sad perspective, and certainly not true. I'm a rock climbing instructor part time, and people who don't climb find it difficult to understand the passion and sheer addictiveness of climbing. There are very large portions of the general populace who get no joy at all from video games, and that majority would find your claim...questionable. I won't even bother to go into more examples of experiences that are consistently enjoyable, non-chemical and still addictive.

what's with the porn hate?

[geekoid]

"dads surfing for pornography is the most common problem"
Why is that a problem? so dad likes some porn, big deal.

Hmmm, yes I've seen this with WoW. I highly suggest that 13 year old change the router so it 'drops out' during certain times of the day..also she needs to get her mother in intervention.

Obviously, my porn comment is for casual viewing, if it impacts going to work, taking care of the kids etc, it's a problem too. The fact that it's porn or WoW doesn't matter.

Re:what's with the porn hate?

[Penguinisto]

Well, it depends - is dad doing the surfing discreetly after the kids have gone to bed, or is he trolling for pr0n in the living room at midday when the kids are sitting only a few meters away?

The latter would be pretty indicative of a problem, y'know?

/P

Re:what's with the porn hate?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've got to say, once you're a parent you might feel differently (I'm assuming with a UID like yours you're a young pup ;-). Even if you feel there's nothing wrong with porn (I agree with this) there is such a thing as age appropriate.

I don't have a problem with my teenager seeing violent movies, but I did not let him watch violent movies when he was younger. There are many reasons for this... Just as there are many reasons for not wanting to expose young children to everything an adult can handle.

Young children are not emotionally or rationally prepared for porn (or kinds of porn). Much like other children, I remembered sneaking playboys in 6th grade, etc. I do think there's a difference between a 6th grader seeing a playboy and seeing gangbang bukkake furries...

My DM is like that... WOW Addict

[Sir_Eptishous]

I don't have a parent with an "internet problem", but my DM does. He is always looking to stop the game so he can play WOW and get that slack jawed look.

He told me he has 7 70's.

Is this a problem?

Re:May I be the first to say

[vux984]

I'll be off the computer in a minute sweaty, go watch TV.

Maybe you should send your kid outside to play instead of sitting on her fat ass watching TV.
Then maybe one day you'll call her 'sweety' instead of 'sweaty'. :)

Re:My DM is like that... WOW Addict

[Anonymous Coward]

He told me he has 7 70's.

Is this a problem?

Yes.

There are nine character classes available.

Clearly he is slacking.

Re:Got sick of fixing my parents computer ...

[Hatta]

The last support call I got was because my dad couldn't figure out which port the speakers plugged in to (and apparently he's becoming color blind). I think they're just making stuff up now to guilt me into visiting.

You could at least leave the basement for dinner.

Re:The problem isn't the Internet...

[qbzzt]

Kids need to learn about sex. The problem is that porn often teaches the wrong things about sex.

There's another problem...

[night_flyer]

parents behaving this was is bad enough, but this statement here says alot about the kids today
"This summer she has been sitting up all day and all night and she forgets what's important to me"

Re:There's another problem...

[NoodleSlayer]

Yes, because kids were never self-centered little brats before this generation.

Discovering the Internet

[moore.dustin]

All that is happening is people are discovering the internet and exploring it at different periods of their lives. Most people, when they first get connected, end up in a chat room and/or some IM program within the first few days of using it. Just like when many of us discovered it, we were amazed and used the same sort of things these people are using in their early internet life. Games, porn, chat rooms and IMing are often the extent that people use the internet for on a regular basis. They are comfortable with the technology and seem content with what they have found, at least for a bit.

As the years go by and you expand your personal scope of/for the internet, you ditch all the things you did when you first got on and really get down to business finally. Call it internet puberty if you wish... these people are just exploring things just like we all did at one point. Honestly, I think it is funny to see friends of mine who just finally get online and start talking about chat rooms or some flash game they found. It takes me back to the days when all the internet was there for was to entertain me. Now I am connected to the/a network nearly all the time, I make my living from it and if it went down for more than 6 hours, I might get the shakes. :)

Pr0n taught me everything

[Swizec]

Maybe in your sad life porn teaches the wrong things. In my world it's a wealth of ideas and suggestions on what to try next ... so far it's all turned out to be very bloody fun!

Re:Pr0n taught me everything

[WrongMonkey]

Leaning sex from porn can be a really bad idea. There is a world of difference between good porn-sex and good real-sex.
Sex in porn is meant to LOOK good on film. The people participating in porn are ACTING.
Many "moves" that are great IRL are too subtle to show up in porn and many porn "moves" aren't that great IRL. Not that most /.ers ever experience the difference ;)

Please!

[mazarin5]

Won't somebody please think of the parents?

Thanks for the reminder ...

[MacTO]

Have make sure my 9 year old son making dinner for the wife and I. Back in a minute.

Re:LOLCOCKS in your ROFLFACE

[tristian_was_here]

Are your children worried about your slashdot trolling?

Re:The problem isn't the Internet...

[syousef]

Kids need to learn about sex. The problem is that porn often teaches the wrong things about sex.

Isn't that what a parent is for? To explain the good and bad and put into context what the child is seeing? It's not very fashionable but it's called parenting.

Because

[Sycraft-fu]

People can, and do, quit MMOs. I quit WoW not long ago. No big reason, no epic struggle, I was just kinda bored of it. I hadn't been playing enough to justify my subscription so I stop the recurring charge. I'll probably go back and play it some time later, or maybe another MMO, I'm just not in the mood for them right now. I didn't "win" I didn't have everything in the game, not even close. I just really don't feel like playing it at this point in time.

So there isn't any magical digital crack in these games that forces you to play. Some people just have the sort of personalities or mental problems or life problems or whatever that they get far too heavily in to it and won't give it up and thus their life suffers. It isn't a flaw with the game, it is a flaw with the individual.

Re:Because

[pthor1231]

Who says he used it as an escape? Is there there no possibility that he just enjoying playing the game?

Re:Because

[Sta7ic]

I've found that the real humor in quitting WoW is in their 'last gasp' message. I decided that school and money came before a silly game, so hit the unsubscribe reason and picked "I need the time for school". They helpfully displayed a little message that went along the lines of, 'You don't have to go! A lot of other people who pick this reason found that they have lots of friends they want to talk to in WoW!'

Irksome that they do it, but yeah, they just don't want to lose any subscribers.

Re:Because

[Anonymous Coward]

So there isn't any magical digital crack in these games that forces you to play...

However, "magical digital crack" is the cause of my porn addiction.

Re:Because

[BlueParrot]

Bullshit, there are essentially 3 ways in which drugs cause addiction.

1: First of all many drugs are indeed very pleasant. In fact, some of them, like cocaine, cause such extreme releases of serotonin and dopamine that this effect will on its own make virtually everybody who use it addicted to it relatively quickly. We are hardwired to get somewhat addicted to things that are pleasant (like sex), the problem is that some drugs have so strong effects that this effect goes beyond everything else. It is not about having an addictive personality, because everybody have a tendency to feel some form of desire or need of things pleasant, and drugs like cocaine strikes strongly at this by preventing the reabsorption of signal substances in the brain, resulting in a massive spike in the levels of the hormones that make us feel well.

2:Many drugs cause pain when you try to stop using them. Nicotine and Alcohol are probably the most well known examples, but Heroin has similar effects. Because the body tries to adjust to the effects of the drug, ceasing to use it can mess you up fairly bad. Smokers tend to get a bad stomach when they stop, alcoholics experience headaches, and heroin abuses can literarely go mad trying to stop using the drug. There are a lot of further symptomes but what they have in common is that ceasing to use the drug creates unpleasant symptomes. These effects have been clearly demonstrated and are not merely psychological. Many drugs affect more parts of the body than just the brain and some of these side effects show up when you quit.

3:Some drugs prevent you from feeling pleasant from other things without the drug. Long time smokers can find it difficult to relax without nicotine as an example. As the body creates extra receptors to compensate for the effect of the drug, more of it is required to trigger the same response ( being one reason why smokers tend to smoke more and more the longer they have been addicted ) and other things that would normally make you feel pleasant may have a dimnished effect unless the drug is pressent simultaneously.

It is true that a number of authorities have inconsistent policies, but mostly this takes the form of having less stringent rules for nicotine and alcohol than for drugs like cannabis. It doesn't mean cocaine or heroin are harmless, and indeed the problem with people not trusting the authorities when it comes to advice on these drugs is one of the reasons why pretending that cannabis is way worse than alcohol or nicotine is retarded. By undermining their creidbility by greatly exagerating the dangers of cannabis, the authorities are causing a lot of people to underestimate the dangers of drugs like heroin. This is a major problem since the latter, unlike cannabis, will almost certainly destroy a person, and a heroin addiction makes nicotine look like a slight temptation in comparison.

Re:The problem isn't the Internet...

[syousef]

I protection is used, why shouldn't children engage in sexual activity as soon as they express an interest in each other?

Perhaps because they don't understand the consequences and implications of what they're doing, the protection isn't 100% effective, their minds and bodies aren't ready to deal with the gamut of emotions, and because they're vulnerable to predation from adults who take advantage of this.

Re:The problem isn't the Internet...

[Strange Ranger]

I don't like what porn teaches either:

-Sex is easy to get and everybody's doing everybody else.
Everybody but you.
-It's not uncommon for 2 or 3 incredibly hot young girls to seduce some lame looking dude.
Just not you.
-There are literally thousands of hot young people gathering together around the globe to have orgies.
You're not invited.

and of course...
-A shaved pubic area is beautiful.
When the red bumps are airbrushed out.

Re:LOLCOCKS in your ROFLFACE

[morgan_greywolf]

Mine are increasingly worried that I'm turning into a Slashbot. I'm not sure why.

Well, anyway, I, for one, welcome our new Slashdot-trolling parental overlords!

In Soviet Russia, children worry about YOU!!!

I suppose these kids..

[Sloppy]

..will go crying to the government to Do Something, to make up for their lack of parent-raising skills.

Kids, if you don't think you can handle the responsibility, then don't become a child!

Re:Can't you meet them on SecondLife?

[Kreigaffe]

I doubt you'd want to meet anyone, most especially your parents, in SecondLife.

Nobody wants to see a Fox version of their father getting sodomized by a well-endowed Lion-mother.

And that, good friends, is SecondLife in a sentence. You may think there's more to that game, but it's all a scam.

I have had customer experiences like that

[Kahless2k]

When I read this a situation that I ran into in January came to mind.

A couple of our regular customers come in to upgrade both of their machines (each parent had one - neither of the two low-end by any means). They priced out about 1500 dollars worth of parts and openly debated about maxing their (only) credit card out on the parts..

Normally, this wouldn't bother me - not any of my business how they pay, so long as they do.

Then, however, after deciding to go ahead and buy the parts - they start going on about how the husband was laid off in December and still hadn't found work - AND THAT THEY HADNT BEEN ABLE TO AFFORD ANYTHING FOR THEIR KIDS FOR CHRISTMAS less than two weeks before.

They're reason: If they dont keep up with WoW they may get kicked out of their Guild!

It may be none of my business, but I'm a parent myself and this just sickens me. I finally ended up having sudden 'stock shortages' and found a way to talk them out of the parts, but still...