Slashdot Mirror


The World's Nine Largest Science Projects

JBG667 writes "Nice overview of the 9 largest science projects currently ongoing. Some of the usual suspects are on the list including CERN, Space Elevator, Space Station, etc. As well as some lesser known including a 3,000-foot-tall 'Solar tower,' the ANTARES underwater neutrino detecting array, and more. Nice read for science buffs."

89 comments

  1. Running old jokes into the ground by Aussenseiter · · Score: 1, Funny

    Aaaand soon, when #1 turns bits of Switzerland and France into Europe's newest lake, it'll be the 8 largest science projects.

  2. So I guess the Internet is off the list? by syousef · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I guess it's now so accepted that people forget it's beginnings as a DARPA experiment. Or perhaps it's just outgrown it's experimental status.

    --
    These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    1. Re:So I guess the Internet is off the list? by Trogre · · Score: 1

      Nah it's still in Beta.

      --
      "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    2. Re:So I guess the Internet is off the list? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess it's now so accepted that people forget it's beginnings as a DARPA experiment. Or perhaps it's just outgrown it's experimental status.

      That makes it a military project, not a science project.

      Of course, that's just the cover story. The internet is really nothing more than an elaborate scheme to allow the NSA to spy on untold numbers of private communications.

    3. Re:So I guess the Internet is off the list? by complete+loony · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Even if you consider the initial development of the internet as a science project, the project itself was fairly small. Do you consider research into vehicles and transportation to be a big science project just because there are millions of them on the road now?

      --
      09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
    4. Re:So I guess the Internet is off the list? by cicatrix1 · · Score: 1

      Obviously it can't be an experiment if the version number = 2.0.

      --

      I know more than you drink.
    5. Re:So I guess the Internet is off the list? by moosesocks · · Score: 1

      The internet was more of an applied engineering project than a "science experiment."

      It was essentially an application of already existing technologies, just in the same way that I wouldn't necessarily call the development of Linux or hardware (eg. the iPod) "science".

      --
      -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
    6. Re:So I guess the Internet is off the list? by perlchild · · Score: 1

      It stopped being a "science" experiment when it became commercial, back in 1990 or so. Or else you could say, it became a hobbyist project instead of something driven by scientists...

  3. Global warming: planet sized by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 2, Interesting

    and a few astronomical projects that are even bigger than that.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
  4. WTF! The space elevator? by pallmall1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How can the "space elevator" be listed? It's long on hype and short on actual effort.

    I built a model of the starship Enterprise a long time ago. Building a starship is a pretty big project, so shouldn't it be listed as well?

    --
    3 things about computers: they're alive, they're self-aware, and they hate your guts.
  5. wrong wrong wrong by ILuvRamen · · Score: 2, Informative

    First of all, a couple links are broken and there's major spelling errors. But to get to my real point, it says "one 200MW power station will provide enough electricity to around 200,000 typical Australian households." Oh boy, households being used as a unit of electricity again! Okay, let's do the math. That's 1000 watts per house. Wow, so everyone can have one light bulb on while their small microwave is running and that's it. Most people have 1000 watts in lights on at any given time let alone cooking and heating and cooling. What a load of bullshit. I hate sensationalist stats that are horribly, HORRIBLY incorrect.

    --
    Google's Super Secret Search Algorithm: SELECT @search_results FROM internet WHERE @search_results = 'good'
    1. Re:wrong wrong wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      there's major spelling errors
      Let he who is free from all grammatical mistakes cast the first spelling correction. I think you mean "there are major spelling errors".

      And from you, the guy who recently wrote on slashdot:

      but those douchebags usually own Hummers and 12 cyllinder Jaguars and stuff so paying more for gas even pisses them off cuz they're not rich because they throw away money carelessly despite the price of something.
      You have no room to throw grammar stones...
    2. Re:wrong wrong wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Okay, let's do the math. That's 1000 watts per house. Wow, so everyone can have one light bulb on while their small microwave is running and that's it. Most people have 1000 watts in lights on at any given time let alone cooking and heating and cooling. What a load of bullshit. I hate sensationalist stats that are horribly, HORRIBLY incorrect. No, you're horrible, HORRIBLY incorrect. 1000 watts used constantly is around (24*30=)720 kilowatt-hours per month. This is a very reasonable amount of usage for an average household. Go check the usage on an electricity bill if you don't believe me.

      (For interest's sake, my wife and I together use around 600 kilowatt-hours every month, and thats with a computer running 24/7, AC, and nothing fancy like energy-saving bulbs.)

    3. Re:wrong wrong wrong by zaydana · · Score: 4, Funny

      You're forgetting that they're building the plant here in Australia. Electricity was only recently introduced in Australia (think last few years), so many houses don't actually have many electrical appliances, preferring to rely on more proven technologies such as candles, fireplaces and kangaroos.

    4. Re:wrong wrong wrong by uuxququex · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Is 720 kWh really reasonable in your part of the world?

      I'm using 1700 kWh a year and that is about average for my a dutch household. Heating and cooking is gas-based and obviously there is no AC needed here.

    5. Re:wrong wrong wrong by man_ls · · Score: 2, Interesting

      1700 kWh/year? That's insane.

      I think I probably use 13,000 kWh/year and I consider myself to be relatively conservative compared with many other people whose power consumption I know. F@H/SETI boxes running 24/7, extra servers running their blogs, etc.

    6. Re:wrong wrong wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm using 1700 kWh a year and that is about average for my a dutch household. Only 1700kWh a year is very impressive, but I have a difficult time believing that is the average for a dutch household. Do you not have a full-sized fridge? Even the most energy efficient refrigerator will easily use more than 100 kWh a month, and that wouldn't leave much for running anything else.. I am genuinely curious how you can manage such low electricity usage.
    7. Re:wrong wrong wrong by Shinobi · · Score: 2, Interesting

      We're 3 people in this apartment, here in Sweden. No AC, no electrical heating, but electric stove, multiple computers, gaming consoles etc, and we're averaging around 4000kWh/year.

      Low-energy lights, the only computers that are constantly on 24/7 are the Via C3/C7's saving a lot of power etc.

    8. Re:wrong wrong wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about my electric sheep shears, Bruce?

    9. Re:wrong wrong wrong by tweak13 · · Score: 1

      I can't imagine using 13,000 kWh per year. I'm in the US (midwest) and we get pretty cold winters and hot, humid summers here. My heat is gas, but A/C is obviously electric. I average about 200 kWh/month, and I don't even remotely try to conserve power other than turning my air off and opening a window whenever I can.

    10. Re:wrong wrong wrong by chrysrobyn · · Score: 1
      No, you're horrible, HORRIBLY incorrect. 1000 watts used constantly is around (24*30=)720 kilowatt-hours per month. This is a very reasonable amount of usage for an average household. Go check the usage on an electricity bill if you don't believe me.

      For interest's sake, my house reliably uses ~350KWh during the winter (gas heat, 2 adults, 2 kids, Austin, TX), seemingly independent of house size (1800 square feet or 2200 square feet). In the summer, we used 1200 KWh in a 1800 square feet house and as much as 1500 KWh in a 2200 square foot house with a pair of 1 year old air conditioners (15.5 SEER and 16.5 SEER, 2 and 3 ton, respectively).

      I've got to put the kill-a-watt on our new 24" nVidia iMacs, which are sure to gobble more power than the powerbooks they replaced to estimate how much our power consumption will go up this year.

    11. Re:wrong wrong wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So all the major electrical usage in a typical US house is either on gas or doesn't exist in your area.

      How much gas do you use? That's outrageous! I haven't used any gas for years. /sarcasm

      720kWh/month is actually pretty low for an American house with a family. The northern states get very cold weather and need a lot of heating. In the south it's can be extremely humid. Texas can have 3 months of 100+F temperature, CA is on the edge of a desert, FL doesn't get very hot (~90F) but is very humid most of the time. Not many people live in the middle states.

    12. Re:wrong wrong wrong by smallfries · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, his numbers are quite reasonable. You Americans have no idea about efficiency and you probably waste more power than the average European household uses in total.

      I share a one-bed (ie 4 rooms, I would guess about 100m^2) flat with my girlfriend. This is a typical sized household for the UK (although the average size is obviously larger). We average 5 kWh per day (so ~1600 kWh per month). We don't live in the dark, the flat is warm over the winter despite the horrific lack of insulation and we are hardly living in the stone age. From the couch I can see three games consoles, three computers, flat-screen tv etc...

      Your power consumption is seven times larger than ours (ignoring fuel consumption which is a major component). You are not conservative by any measure, just because you think you are at the low-usage end of the most wasteful, polluting nation on earth. Do you ever wonder why the rest of the world wants you to hold back on the raping the planet?

      --
      Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
    13. Re:wrong wrong wrong by eison · · Score: 1

      I think it mostly depends on whether you have gas appliances or not. When my AC is running I burn up to 1500 kwh a month, but when it's not I max out at 550 (gas heat).

      --
      is competition good, or is duplication of effort bad?
    14. Re:wrong wrong wrong by FormOfActionBanana · · Score: 1

      Do you heat your flat with that electricity?

      --
      Take off every 'sig' !!
    15. Re:wrong wrong wrong by smallfries · · Score: 1

      No, same as the Dutch example that I was comparing to we use gas. We did live in a horrific flat previously that had economy 7 storage heaters. They doubled our usage to about 3500-4000 kWh a year.

      --
      Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
    16. Re:wrong wrong wrong by man_ls · · Score: 1

      My average consumption at my old place was 33 kWh/day, for two people. My new place, seems to be about 17 kWh/day by myself although I haven't had it long enough for the power company to give me a fancy trend report yet. Both places were right around 70 m^2, electric water heater, electric central air (also electric heating but never once used the heater part), electric clothes dryer, electric stove and oven. I think that's part of the problem there, all my major power sinks are electrical.

      I'm going to try and get it down to 10 kWh/day. I don't want to be 7x the power consumption of everyone else.

    17. Re:wrong wrong wrong by smallfries · · Score: 1

      Sounds like you've made a big difference already. As you point out heating is likely to be your largest usage at the moment. I know from experience that electric heating sucks. It is very uncommon in the uk (outside of rented student accommodation) because people prefer gas. We found it to be expensive, lack the heat control of gas (takes a long time to heat up or cool down) and it never actually got the flat to a warm level.

      --
      Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
  6. Australia wouldn't even sign Kyoto!... by bunbuntheminilop · · Score: 1

    until recently and here they are showing off a spectacular solar power energy plant. I'm very impressed. I thought I would have heard about this on the ABC's Science Show. I haven't been this impressed since the development of the hotrocks project in Australia.

    1. Re:Australia wouldn't even sign Kyoto!... by maglor_83 · · Score: 1

      I didn't know about this being built either, though I do remember seeing a very similar looking proposal to be built near Mildura in the newspaper about 5 years ago.

    2. Re:Australia wouldn't even sign Kyoto!... by rts008 · · Score: 1

      It was also covered herehere on /. in Dec. 2001.

      --
      Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
    3. Re:Australia wouldn't even sign Kyoto!... by maglor_83 · · Score: 1

      Interesting to see the lack of all the anti-solar/wind posts back then. How times change.

  7. How Many Tenths Of A Trillion Dollars!? by mactard · · Score: 5, Funny

    Better question: how many Libraries of Congress (LoC) would it cost to build a trans-atlantic maglev train. Dumb article.

  8. BIG science by zazenation · · Score: 1

    There's an orange that roller under my workbench in the basement a couple of months ago. It is now the 10th biggest science project.

  9. No... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Okay, let's do the math. That's 1000 watts per house. Wow, so everyone can have one light bulb on while their small microwave is running and that's it.
    Most people don't leave their microwave running 24/7. Maybe you do. But maybe what you're cooking isn't worth eating after 54 days in the microwave...

    Most people have 1000 watts in lights on at any given time let alone cooking and heating and cooling.
    1000 watts in lights on at any given time? Even if the given time is... day time?
    1. Re:No... by ILuvRamen · · Score: 1

      My kitchen has 6, 100 watt bulbs. Our living room has like 3 80s on the fan and that's it. My room has 1, 100. Our basement is on dimmers but I think they're about 12 bulbs of an unknown wattage that's at least 60. The computer monitors in my room are what like 30 watts each (duals) and my computer probably pulls at least 100 watts while processing. I have no idea what the AC system is for a 1400 sq ft house like ours but probably like 1000 watts. Just turning the lights on in two rooms hits the limit and most people have lights on in two rooms a lot of the time. So one person home alone at 8:00 at night with a 32" LCD TV and lights on constant and AC running intermittently, they've more than doubled the rate and that's one person in one room. And if half the people match this meager rate in the 200,000 homes at once, I don't care what their monthly average is, they just overloaded the power grid.

      --
      Google's Super Secret Search Algorithm: SELECT @search_results FROM internet WHERE @search_results = 'good'
    2. Re:No... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      And if half the people match this meager rate in the 200,000 homes at once, I don't care what their monthly average is, they just overloaded the power grid. You have some serious problems with rational thinking. Being a 200MW station means that its producing 200MW at any one time. Certainly usage may exceed this during some periods, but usage will also fall short of this during other periods. You think that a power station just pisses the electricity away when not needed? It's stored for later use, or sold to other grids - that way theres plenty of juice when the usage peaks (either from what's stored or by buying back from other grids).

      So you may not care about average power usage, but the people who are designing and building the electricity infrastructure certainly do. Saying that the station will provide enough power for 200000 homes is a nice *basic* statement to put the size of the station into perspective. Or would you really have preferred that they say "Enough for 80000 homes during the day in the summer, 400000 homes during the night, 150000 homes during the day in the winter,...", etc? A small blurb in a news article does not warrant such pedantry.

    3. Re:No... by kramulous · · Score: 1

      Holy crap! I think people like yourself overload the power grid. Why do you need so many lights on?

      Mate I think you should put just a few cycles aside to consider replacing some light bulbs with the energy efficient ones. Not all at once, just one every now and then. Whenever your spare change jar hits enough. Start with the most frequently used lights. They are actually pretty good. I was extremely skeptical at first until our government bought everybody an energy efficient bulb to dismiss the skepticism.

      I've rearranged all the electrical goods' power so I can turn off, at the switch, the non-essentials when I go to bed. It's a mentality change. My power bill dropped dramatically.

      --
      .
    4. Re:No... by rprins · · Score: 1

      Well shame on you. Why the heck are you still using regular bulbs. Energy saving bulbs not only save energy, they also last a lot longer.

      The 3-person household I live in used 2000 kWh last year. That's slightly more then two of your kitchen light bulbs on at all times.

      Do something about it.

    5. Re:No... by fifedrum · · Score: 1

      I sometimes wish the LED household lightbulb suppliers would offer a bulb-of-the-month club. I want to subscribe, pay the $25/month for 1 bulb a month, and like Netflix, put a stack of bulbs in my queue. When they come in, swap out the old incandescent or CFL for the LED bulb and be done with it.

      The scheme saves the trouble of saving up the bux to order them all, or (heaven forbid) actually going online once a month to place an order.

      Either way, you've replaced all your bulbs after a short time, and when you move, take them with you.

    6. Re:No... by moosesocks · · Score: 1

      Start with the most frequently used lights. If you want to cut down on excess waste and do things gradually, start when your lights begin to burn out!

      Because color temperatures tend to vary slightly, do this an entire room at a time. When one bulb burns out, toss the dead bulb, and replace all of the others in the room with energy-efficient CFLs. Save the other "partially-used", and use them to replace dead bulbs elsewhere around the house.

      Repeat this process each time you run out of spares, and within a few years, you should be running entirely on energy-efficient bulbs.

      I'm not sure how much energy actually goes into the manufacture of an incandescent lightbulb, but if you're looking to do things gradually, there's no use in unnecessarily wasting lightbulbs!

      --
      -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
    7. Re:No... by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      Places where the lights are on for a long time are better suited for fluorescent lighting. Make sure to get good bulbs: they last longer and end up being cheaper in the long run. The color spectrum of cheap fluorescents is usually terrible too. That should cut power consumption a lot. I do not know how is the weather where you live, but different housing construction can reduce the AC requirement a lot. Most people here live without AC.

    8. Re:No... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My kitchen has 6, 100 watt bulbs.
      Um, why? Six 100 watt bulbs to light one room? How big could that room possibly be to need all that light? I've never needed more than (at most) two 100 watt bulbs per room. And even that is overkill.
    9. Re:No... by FormOfActionBanana · · Score: 1

      Yeah, this is clearly a case where cheap energy led to a completely inefficient house design.

      If energy costs had been on consumers' minds, the kitchen would be made with lighter colors, more windows etc so that 600W wasn't necessary just to chop some onions and see what you're doing.

      In really hot dry places, you can design a house that keeps the interior shaded and cool without air conditioning... but this simply hasn't been done in the US, both because of humidity which completely invalidates the above, and also cheap energy prices which remove the incentive to even think about complete redesigns.

      Same goes for cold environments; instead of heating a house like crazy, which is so common, you can position the windows so that solar energy shines in and doesn't reflect back out again.

      The US isn't full of bad people trying to be wasteful... it's just that in so many regions there's never been any paucity of resources* to influence behaviors like there has been in other places.

      *potable water is the only exception I can think of...

      --
      Take off every 'sig' !!
    10. Re:No... by FormOfActionBanana · · Score: 1

      I really hate CF lights, but I found if you can mix and match them with the really low wattage incandescent lights (15W or so) the color is warm and acceptible.

      Keep in mind also, that if you are in a region where you use electric heating, there's nothing at all wrong with loading up on incandescent lights and running them all night (during the winter!) They are essentially electric heaters; the light is a by-product and consumes a very small amount of the energy.

      --
      Take off every 'sig' !!
    11. Re:No... by FormOfActionBanana · · Score: 1

      1. Do you light the exterior of your building with that electricity?

      2. Do you regulate the temperature of your interior with that electricity?

      Just wondering. I'm thinking you live in a building with hot water based heating that gets given to you from a shared resource, and exterior lighting is either not needed for security or is provided by the landlord or a municipal source.

      How are my guesses?

      --
      Take off every 'sig' !!
    12. Re:No... by kramulous · · Score: 1

      The first batch of CF lights I got were that cold white light that I used to hate, but after having them, I've gotten used to them. I recently bought another one that was 'warm' and I gotta say, is a very comfortable light. As good as the old type of bulbs. In fact, when you put the covers over them, you can't tell the difference between it and ye olde type.

      Thankfully I don't live in a cold climate. I think I can understand needing warmth anyway that you can get it.

      --
      .
    13. Re:No... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Keep in mind also, that if you are in a region where you use electric heating, there's nothing at all wrong with loading up on incandescent lights and running them all night (during the winter!) They are essentially electric heaters; the light is a by-product and consumes a very small amount of the energy.
      Light bulbs are INCREDIBLY ineffective as space heaters...
    14. Re:No... by rprins · · Score: 1

      Both correct. Also in the summer no cooling is necessary and in the winter we only need minimal amounts of heating because the house is well isolated.

    15. Re:No... by ILuvRamen · · Score: 1

      because they're packed full of mercury (and look like crap and depending on what you believe, damage your eyes and skin)

      --
      Google's Super Secret Search Algorithm: SELECT @search_results FROM internet WHERE @search_results = 'good'
    16. Re:No... by FormOfActionBanana · · Score: 1

      Nice work!

      --
      Take off every 'sig' !!
    17. Re:No... by FormOfActionBanana · · Score: 1

      I don't know why you would think that.

      The "easy bake" oven used a light bulb to bake cakes!

      --
      Take off every 'sig' !!
  10. a computer simulation???!? by Agent__Smith · · Score: 1

    They cannot be serious. A computer simulation is one of the 9 biggest experiments? Shoot... Why didn't they list WOW then?

    --
    "It seems that we are at the age where life stops giving us things, and starts taking them away..." Indiana Jones
  11. From TFA by zaydana · · Score: 3, Informative

    "With a large mirror, 6.5 meter (21.3 feet) diameter mirror the $5 billion+ [James Webb Space Telescope] will launch folded up inside the space shuttle and then unfold to its full-size - several times that of Hubble." Launching a spacecraft to a 1.5 million km orbit with the space shuttle in 2013. Its good to see the discovery channel has done their research. Honestly, I expected more from these guys...

    1. Re:From TFA by general+scruff · · Score: 1

      Despite that, I was blown away by how far away that telescope is going to be away. By my calculations, 3x the distance to the moon!

      That at least makes sense. It shouldn't get in your way at all!

      --
      As a rule, I never trust dark brown ketchup.
  12. Another factual error by Ai+Olor-Wile · · Score: 4, Informative

    The article suggests that the James Webb Space Telescope will be launched from the Space Shuttle, and somehow make it out to 1.5 million kilometres from the Earth. Wikipedia likes to note that an Ariane 5 rocket will be used instead. This is a surprisingly flawed story!

  13. Re:WTF! The space elevator? by khayman80 · · Score: 1

    That depends. Enterprise NX-01? Absolutely not. Any other variant? Yeah, sounds like a winner.

  14. Quick qeustion by Hojima · · Score: 1

    1) Anyone know if the Canadian Light Source Synchrotron being used for scanning the brain? It better be.
    2) For 14 billion dollars, can't you harness nuclear fusion with an enormous piston? I want some engineering/science buff to chew me out on this one.

    1. Re:Quick qeustion by bruce_the_loon · · Score: 1

      Chew, chew, chew, chew, chew, chew, chew, spit, spit.

      Fusion has this strange dichotomy in it, low start temperature = more pressure needed, high start temperature = less pressure. So they aim to kickstart a reaction from multi-million degree plasma because it doesn't require an entire sun worth of gravity-induced pressure to shove the atoms together. Only about a third of a sun, which might be obtainable with earth-sized tools.

      Building a giant piston to take the heat of the plasma is beyond current materials science, so they use magnetic bottles and constrictors to compress and contain the reaction inside a torus.

      The fusion explosion of a hydrogen bomb is triggered by the massive heat and pressure of a fission bomb going off first. But it ain't sustainable.

      --
      Trying to become famous by taking photos. Visit my homepage please.
    2. Re:Quick qeustion by danbert8 · · Score: 1

      I think maybe the grandparent was referring to making a ginormous internal combustion engine, but with fusion bombs providing the explosion to drive the piston rather than actual combustion.

      --
      Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
    3. Re:Quick qeustion by Hojima · · Score: 1

      That's precisely what I meant. An explosion could give the massive piston a lot of PE when it moves it up. If you surround the explosion with water, it could create a lot of steam pressure.

    4. Re:Quick qeustion by Tenebrousedge · · Score: 1

      We don't have any materials that we can use to contain a fusion bomb, and also an internal combustion engine would be a very very inefficient way to use that energy, most of which would be heat or radiation as opposed to expanding gasses.

      --
      Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
  15. Say what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    >> JBG667 writes Nice overview of the 9 largest science projects currently ongoing.

    In Soviet Russia, nice overview writes JBG667.

  16. Re:WTF! The space elevator? by extrasolar · · Score: 1

    Sure, as long as you know the correct placement of the giant yellow duck. It's the details that really made the Enterprise work.

  17. Re:a computer simulation???!? (yes, this is OT) by [m1] · · Score: 0

    "It seems that we are at the age where life stops giving us things, and starts taking them away..." Indiana Jones

    actually just a brief little comment about your sig. I believe it wasnt Indy, it was his old University Dean buddy that said that..

    --
    It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
  18. Take this list with a grain of salt. by AbRASiON · · Score: 4, Informative

    Perhaps my googling and wikipedia skills are off the mark but I was looking up large buildings just earlier this week and that solar tower in Australia seems to be on hold / cancelled.

    Last info I could find mentioned the company attempting to do the same thing but in texas now, infact that entire project has been quiet / off the grid for maybe over a year.

    If that's wrong, what else on the list isn't happening?

    1. Re:Take this list with a grain of salt. by khallow · · Score: 1

      The space elevator for sure hasn't been started yet. They don't even have a tether material yet. And at a glance, if your impression of the solar tower is correct, then my take is that we have a considerable number of these projects that aren't going to contribute much with respect to the expense of constructing them. ITER seems another example of the failed "big fusion" approach. If we keep escalating, we might build fusion plants that can generate power, but have them so large that we can't build enough of them to make them economic.

      The International Space Station as indicated in the story is going to cost well over $100 billion when it's done. In addition to the huge opportunity costs of spending the money on a single space station (for example, that money could have been spent on several equivalent stations to the ISS), and continuing to run the highly inefficient Space Shuttle to 2010 or beyond, the ISS simply doesn't do that much science, space engineering, or people-living-in-space feelgood.

      The Space Elevator isn't a genuine project at this time. Key problems I see are 1) don't have strong enough material or a manufacture technique yet for building and deploying such tethers, 2) don't have intermediate projects lined up (sky hooks, space slings, etc), and 3) don't have the demand to support a space elevator at this time. Point 1) is pretty straightforward could be feasible, but hasn't happened yet. I think it's worth elaborating on the second two points. First, a space elevator isn't an all or nothing project. There are various uses for tethers that could be done now with today's materials. For example, a Lunar-based space elevator (from the near side of the Moon to the L1 point, the stable point between Earth and Moon) or some sort of orbital transfer system. Both could be made with kevlar, so I understand. Finally, the economics aren't there. The best economic logic that the proponents can come up with is "Build it and they will come". That just doesn't work for me.

      On the other hand, a number of these projects seem on fire. The LHC is a continuation of a highly successful program. I consider it the Dr. Jeckyll to the Mr. Hyde of the Internation Space Station. It demonstrates how to do international cooperation and is a very efficient use of public funds. And the climateprediction.net looks interesting (effective use of technology), but I really don't know it's scale. It seems surprisingly small for a distributed computing project that supposedly is the largest climate modeling experiment and for being included in the ranks of these big science projects. Having said that, it's a lot of bang for the buck, maybe the best on the list for that reason.

      I find it mildly (and perhaps irrationally) disappointing that there's no biotech projects in this group. It would seem that with the successful close of the Human Genome Project in 2003, that this would result in some interesting large scale science projects. But nothing of the scale of the HGP has appeared as far as I can tell.

    2. Re:Take this list with a grain of salt. by vrmlguy · · Score: 1

      The International Space Station as indicated in the story is going to cost well over $100 billion when it's done. In addition to the huge opportunity costs of spending the money on a single space station (for example, that money could have been spent on several equivalent stations to the ISS), and continuing to run the highly inefficient Space Shuttle to 2010 or beyond, the ISS simply doesn't do that much science, space engineering, or people-living-in-space feelgood. OTOH, one Iraq war equals ten space stations!
      Or, enough wind turbines to power North America!
      --
      Nothing for 6-digit uids?
    3. Re:Take this list with a grain of salt. by khallow · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, WHAT? At least, the Iraq war probably has bought some degree of oil supply chain security, that is, furthered a vital US interest. Its cost is to a great extent the result of incompetence and corruption in the Bush administration. One cannot say the same thing for the ISS.

    4. Re:Take this list with a grain of salt. by vrmlguy · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, WHAT? At least, the Iraq war probably has bought some degree of oil supply chain security, that is, furthered a vital US interest. Its cost is to a great extent the result of incompetence and corruption in the Bush administration. One cannot say the same thing for the ISS.

      The ISS wound up costing about ten times initial estimates due to such things as reliance on the Shuttle to deliver parts, and a decision to spread the work over as many Congressional districts as possible.

      On the other hand, enough wind turbines to power North America would also bring about oil supply chain independence, and still have enough money left over to put up a second ISS, especially if you assume that we could orbit a second one for a lot closer to the initial estimates.

      To get back to the article, something that I will never understand is NASA's willingness to de-orbit space stations. They practically held a gun to the Russians' heads to bring down Mir. (The Russians wanted ISS in a parallel orbit, NASA wanted a perpendicular one. The Russian approach would have let each station use the other as a lifeboat, NASA made it impossible to transfer between the orbits. Or you could have bolted Mir onto the IIS and had a much bigger station for practically nothing.) Once you spend $1e11 to put hardware into orbit, I'd like to see it kept there. If you want to abandon it, dump the atmosphere and water and move it to a parking orbit in the middle of the van Allen belt for a future generation to rehabilitate.

      --
      Nothing for 6-digit uids?
    5. Re:Take this list with a grain of salt. by khallow · · Score: 1

      Ok, the wind turbine thing has a great deal of merit. To be honest, I think it'll happen anyway especially now that the Europeans are blazing the trail with their huge scale operations. And since these things are making money, they'll go up everywhere.

      To get back to the article, something that I will never understand is NASA's willingness to de-orbit space stations.

      I think deorbiting MIR was pretty shameful. But there are valid economic reasons to deorbit. First, as you say we're looking at two real, no maintenance possibilities, deorbit or park in van Allen. Putting the ISS in a long term LEO is dangerous since it'll be a huge source of debris, if NASA ever loses control of it. Occasionally people ask about putting the ISS in a much higher orbit (eg, the L5 Lagrange point). With the mass of the ISS, that currently isn't feasible. It'd take a huge, costly effort and to be honest, it'd be cheaper to just put a station there, 50 years from now, when you really want it and launch costs are lower.

      The problem with the van Allen belts is two-fold. First, you can't control the station long term. It might run into something (there are boosters and other objects in this area) and create a huge debris field. Second, all electronics will die in fairly short order. Much of the rest of the station will be damaged by exposure for long periods of time to the radiation in these belts. It's possible that by the time we can salvage the ISS from this region, it'll be too brittle to use except except as raw materials.

  19. Re:WTF! The space elevator? by damburger · · Score: 2, Informative

    NASA has already run competitions to build elevator climbers. There are millions (perhaps billions) being invested in the development of carbon nanotubes as a viable building material. If such time, energy and money were being spent on building a warp drive, then you might have a point.

    --
    If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
  20. Typical Discovery Channel... by tgd · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Half the "projects" are imaginary, the other half are explained poorly or just plain wrong.

    Trans-atlantic tunnel? Space elevator? We might as well say the establishment of psychohistory and a Foundation to guide the development of humanity is an equally large science project.

    And whats with the passing jab at cold fusion in the ITER blurb? Poor attempt at a joke? Author who doesn't understand the difference? Or perhaps someone not aware about how much research actually is happening in that space?

    I'd say they should be embarassed, but they're probably off watching "Ghost Hunters", I think the new season started on the Discovery Channel recently ...

    1. Re:Typical Discovery Channel... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree. This just isn't a good article in a scientist's stand point.

      For example, under Canadian Lightsource, it says "this generation-3 synchrotron shoots tungsten atoms through a booster ring to nearly the speed of light". No they don't! They use tungsten target to produce electron beam that they will accelerate in the ring!

      To the best of my knowledge, CLS is no more special than any other third generation lightsource accelerators (such as Advanced Photon Source at Argonne National Lab).

      In fact, I met somebody from University of Saskatchewan a couple of years ago who were running his experiment at National Synchrotron Light Source at Brookhaven National Lab instead of using their own CLS. Apparently, at a time, there was no way to run his experiment at CLS, but he could do at NSLS.

      In case you didn't know, NSLS is a second generation lightsource, not a third generation (I work with accelerators, so I know those things).

    2. Re:Typical Discovery Channel... by gad_zuki! · · Score: 3, Funny

      At least theyre not watching the history channel. I believe the current lineup is:

      5pm: Jesus vs Bigfoot. Which one is hiding in the wilderness?

      6pm: Rare Sighting: Hitler's Ghost. Does it have a message for us?

      7pm: Random "Weekly World News" articles turned into TV shows.

      8pm: Some random thing about Rome with lots of gladiatorial combat and boobage.

      9pm: 9/11 conspiracy theories.

      10pm: An Atlantis "documentary"

      11pm: Another Atlantis "docuentary" this time with quotes for certified "researchers."

      12pm: Something else about Jesus, Hitler, or 9/11. Or all three at once (Hitler planned 9/11 when Jesus was sleeping.)

  21. No, it's not by m50d · · Score: 1
    This is a surprisingly flawed story!

    Sadly, in this day and age, it's not surprising at all.

    --
    I am trolling
  22. Here's the official numbers by uuxququex · · Score: 5, Informative
    I found the official numbers of the national budget institute (NIBUD). You can see that the average consumption is quite a bit lower than your expenditure.

    Mechanical translation provided by Google, just scroll down to "Electricity".

    1 person household: 2220 kWh
    2 person household: 3095 kWh
    3 person household: 3875 kWh

    Average over all households: 3230 kWh

  23. Re:WTF! The space elevator? by pallmall1 · · Score: 1

    There are millions (perhaps billions) being invested in the development of carbon nanotubes as a viable building material.
    If those "billions" being invested as part of a space elevator project to develop carbon nanotubes as a viable building material, then YOU might have a point.
    --
    3 things about computers: they're alive, they're self-aware, and they hate your guts.
  24. Re:WTF! The space elevator? by damburger · · Score: 1

    What makes you think they are not? Most researchers into nanotubes (and there are some in my department) when asked what the applications of their work are will mention space elevators first. There are few other applications that require such ridiculously strong materials - steel suffices for pretty much everything people want to build right now.

    --
    If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
  25. Do Androids? by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 2, Funny

    Do Androids Shear Electric Sheep?

    Jes' askin'...

    --
    "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
    Never been known to fail..."
  26. Re:WTF! The space elevator? by markov_chain · · Score: 1

    Because the hot air created by the project diffuses into the atmosphere, as gases are wont to do, so the project's proportions become planetary.

    --
    Tsunami -- You can't bring a good wave down!
  27. Re:WTF! The space elevator? by moosesocks · · Score: 1

    If we can devise a method to manufacture them cheaply, they'll become very widely used.

    Think about it.... a material that is stronger, lighter, and less voluminous than steel could replace it in any application where weight, space, or amount of material is an issue. Bridges, automobiles, and buildings come to mind very quickly.

    --
    -- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
  28. Cool! A Minnie Driver/Anne Hathaway love scene! by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

    From TFA:

    2. Next-stop, cold fusion?: The International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor (ITER)

    This first-ever demo-level fusion reactor will be built in southern France and promises to deliver the world's first sustained fusion reactions; In layman's terms: more bang for your buck. And at a projected cost of CDN $14.4 billion, it better.

    When the eight-year construction project is complete (scheduled for late 2015), ITER will generate 500 MW of fusion power for extended periods of time.

    For those not in the physics know-how, fusion is exceptionally difficult to achieve - and is the subjects of many controversial experiments. That fusion reproduces our sun's energy, without the greenhouse gas emissions and radioactive waste of other methods. (more...)

    3. The finished International Space Station, circa 2011

    When completed in 2010 (though that will likely slip to 2011) the International Space Station will be the largest multinational engineering project of all time.

    With an estimated final pricetag of a tenth of a trillion dollars, the finished structure - with its outstretched solar arrays - will be the size of a football field.[/quote]

    A Canadian foodball field.

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  29. top N lists...? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is this digg?

  30. Re:WTF! The space elevator? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't think any of those competitions were run by NASA, but regardless, they had about as much in common with a real space elevator as a model of the Enterprise has in common with the real thing.

    There might be millions being invested in structural carbon nanotube research, but I guarantee you there are not billions. And contrary to your assertion two posts down, they may think a space elevator is what they're working on, but if they're waiting for a $trillion project to validate their efforts, they're going to be waiting for a long time. It's simply about higher strength composites, which have applications all over the place. Believe it or not, there are relatively mundane applications where even carbon fiber doesn't have the desired tensile strength.

    Space elevator work is small scale, disorganized, not aimed at a final design. All of the other projects on that list (except a couple of the honorable mentions) are real, funded, and under construction in concrete, usable form.

    That pitance that a few venture capitalists spend on space elevator work pales in comparison to hundreds of science projects. Even a single NASA space probe greatly outshines what is being done with space elevators.

  31. Re:WTF! The space elevator? by kahanamoku · · Score: 1

    Not forgetting the cost put towards the war against terrorism! You have to factor that in because there's no point building a tower that big if some terrorist prick is just going to fly another plane into it!

    --
    ----- Concentrate on promoting more than demoting.
  32. I believe you are in error... by Agent__Smith · · Score: 1

    I remember it being Indy speaking to his dean buddy...

    Indy had just commented on the tough year they had with the loss of both his father and Marcus (former dean) he then commented to the new dean that they seemed to be at an age where life had stopped giving them things and started taking them away. I am reasonably sure this is accurate...

      I will let you know for sure when it comes out on DVD. Not worth paying to see twice.

    --
    "It seems that we are at the age where life stops giving us things, and starts taking them away..." Indiana Jones