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The World's 10 Dirtiest Cities

neever writes "You may already know about the pollution plight of Linfen, China. But how about the heavy metals Pittsburghers breathe in on a daily basis? Or the incomparable smog Milanesi put up with? PopSci has culled an eye-opening selection of some of the world's most problematic cities. From the painfully high cancer rates in Sumgayit, Azerbaijan to the acid rain destroying La Oroya, Peru, writer Jason Daley walks readers through the lowest of the low; and explains why, despite it all, there's still hope for these places."

86 of 286 comments (clear)

  1. Bad air... by BWJones · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I don't know which cities are listed as the Popsci servers seem to be down, but a couple of weeks ago flying out of Los Angeles, the pollution seemed pretty bad as can be seen in this picture of the afternoon sun over the San Gabriel Mountains.

    From some of my other travels throughout the world, I am guessing that L.A. is not even close to how dirty some cities can get particularly in Russia. If the air is worse than it is in L.A., then it should really, really make you worry.

    --
    Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
    1. Re:Bad air... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I have a friend from China that was excited to be able to find the sun. First spotting in 10 years. I realize there are a lot of high buildings in China, so you wouldn't necessarily notice it unless you were looking, but that still surprised me quite a bit.

      It's come a long way, but you can smell the air, sometimes quite strongly.

    2. Re:Bad air... by Bandman · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I was staying outside of LA in a high rise hotel a few years ago, and you could see the buildings of LA on the horizon, and they looked like they were covered by a slightly yellow dome of smog. It was very discernible, and seemed to have a solid line differentiating it from the clear air above.

    3. Re:Bad air... by cayenne8 · · Score: 4, Interesting
      "I was staying outside of LA in a high rise hotel a few years ago, and you could see the buildings of LA on the horizon, and they looked like they were covered by a slightly yellow dome of smog. It was very discernible, and seemed to have a solid line differentiating it from the clear air above."

      Hmm....speaking of LA.

      :-)

      I gotta figure that New Orleans, LA is in that list...Lordy, people here have no idea what a trash can is, they just throw shit in the streets. I guess a lot of it comes from getting used to having street sweepers follow behind you like after Mardi Gras parades...or the way the Quarter gets 'magically ' cleaned up every day.

      And, as far as pollution goes...well, that little strip from NOLA westward isn't called 'cancer alley' for nothing. Part of the price I guess of supplying about 1/3 of the energy (oil and gas) needs of the rest of the nation. But, hell....we may not live long, but, we live it up while we're here.

      :-)

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    4. Re:Bad air... by camperslo · · Score: 5, Informative

      I was staying outside of LA in a high rise hotel a few years ago, and you could see the buildings of LA on the horizon, and they looked like they were covered by a slightly yellow dome of smog. It was very discernible, and seemed to have a solid line differentiating it from the clear air above.

      The boundary you saw between the smog and clean air above is from an inversion layer

    5. Re:Bad air... by Kozar_The_Malignant · · Score: 4, Funny

      >you could see the buildings of LA on the horizon

      So it was a clear day then?

      --
      Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
    6. Re:Bad air... by j01123 · · Score: 5, Funny

      I gotta figure that New Orleans, LA is in that list...Lordy, people here have no idea what a trash can is, they just throw shit in the streets. No kidding. I was there a couple years ago and I swear it looked like a hurricane had been through there.
    7. Re:Bad air... by twistedcubic · · Score: 4, Funny

      Nice pictures! I also found this quote interesting:

      A lovely gin and tonic to start the flight off and the option to stretch ones legs out and work on the MacBook Air in-between looking out the window to take pictures makes every flight much more pleasant.

      Is this how people usually turn out when they buy a Mac? :)

    8. Re:Bad air... by Omestes · · Score: 4, Informative

      Phoenix gets this too in the winter. The cold air caps the warm (nasty) air underneath. But then again both Phoenix and LA are build in valleys. In winter nights here the sky turns a nice red color (the same color as northern "snow sky"), from all the light pollution bouncing off the smog layer. Though Phoenix has some of the most beautiful sunsets in the world, thanks to the brown cloud, and the huge amounts of desert dust in the air.

      LA, of course, is much worse. But then again, I try to avoid that place like the plague. It takes 8 hours just to pass through town.

      Dersert+Valley= an idiotic place to build a city, generally.

      From what I here from my friends who spend time in the megalopolis' of China, though, LA and Phoenix has NOTHING on them. Pictures of Beijing and Shanghai that I've seen, are absolutely VILE. Not only is it high-rises to the horizon, but the sky is this awesome color of brown that only LA can dream of. It is almost opaque.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    9. Re:Bad air... by value_added · · Score: 4, Informative

      The boundary you saw between the smog and clean air above is from an inversion layer.

      No, it's called the West Side. That small sliver of land that runs along the coast of the Pacific Ocean where the rich, the famous, and the wanna be rich and famous live and enjoy cool ocean breezes and the California experience, while the rest of us grind out our existence in what's left, a semi-arid, hot, dirty and treeless environment where, during the days, cars swarm like locusts, but at night, disappear, leaving those endless miles of pavement open for the crack whores and gang kids to conduct their business or make that late night trip to their local 7-11. If it wasn't for the streetlights, twinkling like jewels in the night sky for everyone fortunate to live above us, you'd think no one lived here at all.

    10. Re:Bad air... by nospam007 · · Score: 3, Funny

      >It's come a long way, but you can smell the air, sometimes quite strongly.

      Don't trust air you can't see.

    11. Re:Bad air... by ShannaraFan · · Score: 4, Interesting

      No offense, but New Orleans is disgusting. I was there 7 years ago, stayed at some fancy hotel in the French Quarter (don't remember the name, company paid for it). Everywhere you walk, your shoes make that sticky sound like velcro, every alley you walk past smells like piss. Honestly reminded me of some cheap bars from my college days. I don't want to know what was making the sidewalks sticky, I was just glad to leave there. Nasty, gross place.

    12. Re:Bad air... by cayenne8 · · Score: 3, Interesting
      "No offense, but New Orleans is disgusting. I was there 7 years ago, stayed at some fancy hotel in the French Quarter (don't remember the name, company paid for it). Everywhere you walk, your shoes make that sticky sound like velcro, every alley you walk past smells like piss. Honestly reminded me of some cheap bars from my college days. I don't want to know what was making the sidewalks sticky, I was just glad to leave there. Nasty, gross place."

      Yeah...I'll admit it used to get kinda bad. That has changed since the storm tho. They have hired a new company to manage garbage and cleaning the Quarter. They even have a special formula they spray on the streets and trash areas every morning....that is pretty nice smelling.

      I forget their name, but they really do do a good job now, and that smell of spilled drinks, puke, garbage is no longer there like it used to be at times in the past.

      Frankly I was amazed how nice it was down there last time I went down there.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    13. Re:Bad air... by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 3, Funny

      And air that you CAN see is better? :-P

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    14. Re:Bad air... by timeOday · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I have a friend from China that was excited to be able to find the sun. First spotting in 10 years.
      Living in New Mexico, I find that mind-blowing. I am worried that, with all our concern about doing little things like switching to fluorescent lighting, there is little to no recognition of the root problem - human overpopulation. It's not just the pollution, I love wild natural places and they are all filling up with people and farmland. Our reliance on illegal immigration to support our economy shows that we are not ready to give up ponzi-scheme economics. Yet the Chinese, of all people, can hardly be criticized, since they're the ones taking draconian measures to level off. I don't want to get to that point. Disclaimer: I'm a hypocrite with 4 kids.
    15. Re:Bad air... by Kozz · · Score: 4, Informative

      I don't think it's so much about the high buildings as it is simply the air quality itself. I was in Shanghai less than a year ago, and while waiting for my flight to start boarding, I watched another take off. It seemed barely a mile away when it became completely obscured by the brown-yellow haze of smog.

      When I found myself in Minneapolis about 16 hours later, it was amazing and refreshing that I could watch that plane fly away until it was so small as to be unrecognizable.

      --
      I only post comments when someone on the internet is wrong.
    16. Re:Bad air... by N3WBI3 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Human over population is *not* the root problem, wastefulness is! Europe is far more densely populated than the US yet it has cleaner air and water why? because they give a crap. We waste food, waste energy, waste water, etc. Thats the problem.. Give me 2 six-person households who are diligent about not wasting things and who dont need 1K sq ft each over *1* family with one kid, two SUV's a McMansion, and who have no cares about conservation..

      --
    17. Re:Bad air... by gnick · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm in New Mexico too and I love all of the wild areas we have here - National forests, etc. But you hit the nail on the head with overpopulation being the root problem of all of this mess. My question is what logic dictates that I get tax deductions (+$600 bonus this year) for having kids which consume more public funding than if I had none.

      I haven't read it (and can't even share a title - sorry), but I understand that there's a Heinlein book in which each child you have increases your tax obligation exponentially. If I recall the summary I got from a coworker correctly, the richest man in the universe could only afford 7. Makes sense to me - Kids are an expensive luxury. Not a real pretty sight to face, but much less draconian than the measures taken in China.

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    18. Re:Bad air... by smooth123 · · Score: 2, Informative

      They are getting polluted for you. Bcoz of stricter pollution control in the US. China is getting polluted bcoz it is the manufacturing hun for all things bought in the US. How deep are US pockets, looks like you have not noticed the hole Dubya has created. Besides the UN is run by Washington Bureacrats, so your ire should be pointed towards them.

    19. Re:Bad air... by whackco · · Score: 3, Informative

      I don't suspect you understand the atmospheric conditions surrounding Los Angeles.

      What you are seeing is what locals refer to as 'June Gloom' or 'Marine Layer' - what the rest of the world likes to refer to as common fog.

      As for the actual air quality - having lived here for the last 5 years, I can attest that it isn't bad - compared to when I visited in the 90's, or worse, 80's. If you look around the roads of LA you will notice that almost all vehicles are late model - due to the strick emission standards the state has placed.

      The only time I have ever seen actual 'smog' is driving into the core city, from the 101 freeway, on a day at about 105 degrees, stuck in massive traffic. Then you see a very slight 'cloud'

    20. Re:Bad air... by HiThere · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sorry, it's a hangover from "Be fruitful and multiply and replenish the Earth" (Somewhere in Genesis)

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    21. Re:Bad air... by timeOday · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually I think evolution is a much more obvious explanation of the drive to overpopulate than religion is.

    22. Re:Bad air... by instarx · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not only did you not RTFA, you evidently did not even R the F summary. That's Milan as in Italy listed as one of the world's worst polluted cities. And you're telling me that the people of Azerbaijan are building too many McMansions!? The vast majority of pollution is caused by industry (and particularly by uncontrolled industry), not wasteful citizens. And anyway, I do not agree that the air and water in Europe is better than in the US. Italy and Greece have real problems with air pollution eating away at their antiquities, and the Mediteranean is barely better than a cess-pool off Spain.

      I agree that American culture is very wasteful and we should change our ways, but please don't just make crap up to support the idea.

  2. come on by nomadic · · Score: 5, Funny

    Air pollution is a liberal myth that is propagated simply to prevent the glorious libertarian utopia that results from the pure beauty of unrestricted capitalism.

    1. Re:come on by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 2, Funny

      Is that little people as in leprechauns, little people as in midgets, or something else entirely?

      Define your terms, you must.

    2. Re:come on by LarsWestergren · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yeah I know! Penn and Teller totally debunked the existence of air pollution on "Bullshit!". People are SO naive.

      --

      Being bitter is drinking poison and hoping someone else will die

    3. Re:come on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Won't someone think of the companies!? Won't someone PLEASE think of the companies!?! *sobs hysterically*

    4. Re:come on by Lehk228 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      soviet russia was no more proper socialist than capitalist america, both subverted the will and well being of the people for the benefit of the wealthy and connected

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    5. Re:come on by leoboiko · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm a libertarian capitalist. However, I think libertarianism breaks when it comes to protecting the environment. The way I see it, there are at least three reasons for it being so:

      1. Economics theory pressuposes rational agents. People often aren't rational; they do stuff that will get them into lots of trouble later, just to get some profits right now. They also do stupid shit like owning cars only because other people also do it ("status symbol").
      2. Further, the theory pressuposes abstract immortal agents. People don't care about what will happen after they're dead.
      3. Tragedy of commons. Air, water, tropical ecosystems etc. are "outside" the capitalist system, so people are free to abuse them for profit.

      I don't know of any better alternatives though. Deregulated capitalism still seems to me to be the best system we got; but, even with my distrust of giving power to government, I've got no choice but to support regulation and taxation to prevent fuckers from destroying *my* planet.

      Now if only I could figure out a way of making Americans giving up on SUVs...

      --
      Prescriptive grammar:linguistics :: alchemy:chemistry. Stop being a nazi and learn some science.
  3. Dirtiest by mqduck · · Score: 4, Funny

    While reading the title of this article, my interest peaked just before I realized that by "dirtiest", it was actually talking about dirt.

    --
    Property is theft.
    1. Re:Dirtiest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      the word you're looking for is 'piqued.' peaked is tent in your pants.

    2. Re:Dirtiest by biquet · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, something can pique your interest, but GP was saying that his interest peaked, i.e. reached a high point. His usage is correct. Nice pun, though :-P

  4. "The oceans were full..." by Caboosian · · Score: 5, Funny

    It may not be a city, but New Jersey deserves at least an honorable mention.

  5. You want bad air...? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Take him to Detroit!

    1. Re:You want bad air...? by Loadmaster · · Score: 2, Funny

      Or my apartment after eating a Crave Case full of White Castle cheeseburgers. Oof!

    2. Re:You want bad air...? by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 3, Informative

      This cryptic gem is a reference to a sketch in Kentucky Fried Movie called "A Fistful of Yen", which is arguably the best sketch of the movie besides Rex Cramer -- Danger seeker.

  6. digg by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    /. seems to be turning into digg with all these 'worlds #' topics...

  7. The City You're Looking For by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Portland, Oregon.

    Highest percapita strip club concentration, and legalized live sex shows. And while not all the ladies shave, pretty much all of them are down.

    1. Re:The City You're Looking For by MrMr · · Score: 3, Funny

      How do you find those things out? I just googled for live sex shows and got 16800000 hits. Should I check them all?

    2. Re:The City You're Looking For by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      Why not? It sounds like a worthwhile enterprise.

    3. Re:The City You're Looking For by WrongMonkey · · Score: 4, Funny

      Portland has 50 strip clubs and about 500,000 people.
      Elko, NV has 16,000 people and 5 active brothels.
      On a per capita basis, I think they've got Portland beat for dirtiness.

    4. Re:The City You're Looking For by LrdDimwit · · Score: 2, Funny

      Sounds like a whorrible idea to me.

  8. Pittsburgh for University..... by Forvak · · Score: 3, Funny

    Ay! I've just signed myself up for four years of university in Pittsburgh. Anyone know a good method of limiting heavy metal exposure in such an environment.... Wait... Why would I want that?.. I'll be IRON MAN!

    1. Re:Pittsburgh for University..... by snowraver1 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Forbes rated it (Pittsburgh) in the top ten cleanest cities:

      http://www.forbes.com/2007/04/16/worlds-cleanest-cities-biz-logistics-cx_rm_0416cleanest_slide_16.html?thisSpeed=30000
      I hope this link works for you guys :/

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      Copyright 2010. All rights reserved. This comment may not be copied in any way including, but not limited to caching.
    2. Re:Pittsburgh for University..... by thereofone · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not only that, but the methodology was a lil flawed in that the main sensor was maybe a mile from the coke works and not really the city proper. What also comes in to play is the number of coal power plants still kickin' in Ohio, West Virgina, New York and central PA; that's a problem in most of the rust belt.

      It certainly isn't a progressive utopia like Portland or Seattle (maybe I'm a little bitter as people I know are moving there at an impressive pace), but it's doing much better as parent post noted.That said, the only bad air I tend to notice is the stench of substandard student housing in the "college" neighborhood :P

    3. Re:Pittsburgh for University..... by TimedArt · · Score: 4, Informative

      ---quote---
      Ay! I've just signed myself up for four years of university in Pittsburgh. Anyone know a good method of limiting heavy metal exposure in such an environment.... Wait... Why would I want that?.. I'll be IRON MAN!
      ---end quote---

      Pittsburgh is a very different city than many Americans picture. There's only a small part of the city that actually has the pollution levels cited in the study. Steel and coke works have given way to robotics and medical research. Disclosure: I am finishing a graduate degree at Pitt right now. I may be biased, but I do hope a new study is done that covers the city as a whole.

    4. Re:Pittsburgh for University..... by mischief+herald · · Score: 2, Informative

      I attend a university in Pittsburgh and it is a fine city dealing with an overshadowing past. For proof of its green "transformation", check out some of the initiatives:

      http://www.pittsburghgreenstory.org/html/index.html

      http://www.popcitymedia.com/inthenews/solarcity0926.aspx

      http://www.city.pittsburgh.pa.us/mayor/assets/08_green_up_app.pdf

      (unfortunately, Pittsburgh's typical weather doesn't allow for strikingly efficient solar power use)

      --
      "Someday I would like to quote myself."
    5. Re:Pittsburgh for University..... by Hungus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Don't worry, the article (PopSci) is self contradicting in the first place. On one page it says that 16 out of the 20 most polluted cities are in China, it then goes on to name 9 out of the top 10 which are somewhere other than China. Last time I checked 20 - 16 was 4 not 9. Of course maybe they are using the new math.

      --
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    6. Re:Pittsburgh for University..... by kaiidth · · Score: 2, Informative

      Was in Pittsburgh a week or two ago for a conference and had already read that the city was supposedly polluted, etc... but it was beautiful there. Of course I could still have been breathing arsenic for all I know since I haven't yet taken to carrying around a dosimeter, but visually at least, the place is as near to spotless as I have ever seen anywhere. Additionally, by comparison to many major cities people tend on the whole to be friendly/harmless and, while it rains quite a lot, the bonus is that you also get some really nice skies...

      I'd recommend the place. In fact it was so unexpectedly nice that I'm still slightly in shock about it.

    7. Re:Pittsburgh for University..... by AgentSmith · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The only caveat to Pittsburgh is KNOW WHERE YOU ARE GOING!

      I shout this because Pittsburgh is the wonderful land of bridges and hills.

      To the outsider most downtown Pittsburgh traffic is concrete death trap full of one way streets that lead exactly in the wrong direction of your destination.
      Or street cattle shunt you to a bridge that crosses one of the 3 wonderful rivers. If you get lost in Pittsburgh, stay alert, enjoy the view and don't get discouraged by waiting in traffic.

      If you can get around with public transport then go for it.
      Being a sharp and intelligent individual, I'm sure you already have a detailed block-by-block map of Pittsburgh itself.
      Extra points if you have it already on a smartphone or PDA.

      Otherwise, it's a great place with great food.

      I'd also say "Go Steelers!", but they finally got the 'one for the thumb'.

  9. Re:Already slashdotted by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2, Funny

    It has not been slashdotted. They just had to shut the web server down due to increasing HTTP pollution.

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
  10. It doesn't have to be that way... by shanen · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Server is already /.ed?

    Anyway, I live in one of the minor million-plus cities of Japan near Tokyo, and I just want to note that you can have a high-tech, high-quality lifestyle without destroying your environment. Whenever I hear a story like this, I think about running into quail the morning, almost literally. They are sometimes foraging within a few feet of the gate, and they figure people are basically harmless to about 3 meters. There's a little river two stations up, and it's heavily populated with half-meter carp. I walked about half a kilometer along it the other day, and there were almost always fish visible, and sometimes scores of fish. It's a matter of priorities, I think--but I was annoyed a couple of years ago when they cut down a pretty large bamboo grove and built a bunch of houses there...

    Not sure of all of the reasons, but I feel like good mass transit is a big chunk of it. Heavy recycling probably helps, though they recently increased the garbage collection taxes quite a bit.

    --
    Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
    1. Re:It doesn't have to be that way... by servognome · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Anyway, I live in one of the minor million-plus cities of Japan near Tokyo, and I just want to note that you can have a high-tech, high-quality lifestyle without destroying your environment.
      The thing is the worst places typically aren't high-tech, high-quality life. They are industrial enough to attract large population concentrations, but not developed enough to have resources for mass transit, sanitation, and other health improvements.
      --
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    2. Re:It doesn't have to be that way... by Acapulco · · Score: 4, Informative

      Sorry to be replying myself. I made a mistake in the link above.

      Correct one: http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1661031_1661028_1661016,00.html

      Also, here's a very different list,
      http://www.forbes.com/2008/02/24/pollution-baku-oil-biz-logistics-cx_tl_0226dirtycities_slide_26.html?thisSpeed=30000
      using the Mercer Health and Sanitation Index Score as the ranking value.

      The first five are:
      - Baku, Azerbaijan
      - Dhaka, Bangladesh
      - Antananarivo, Madagascar
      - Port au Prince, Haiti
      - Mexico City, Mexico

      --
      Slashdot. Unreadable news to annoy nerds. - wonkey_monkey
    3. Re:It doesn't have to be that way... by LM741N · · Score: 2, Informative

      Carp are normally vegetarian but seem to also congregate around sewage discharge into streams and rivers. So they are not necessarily a sign of a healthy environment. But I think in Japan they are popular fish, while in the US they are considered foreign invasive species. In PA you could legally shoot them with a bow and arrow.

    4. Re:It doesn't have to be that way... by OutLawSuit · · Score: 2, Informative

      Geography also plays a large role. If a city is surrounded by mountains like Los Angeles or Mexico City, there's no way for the smog to escape.

    5. Re:It doesn't have to be that way... by jrumney · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Japan was the first country to hit dangerous levels of air pollution in the 1960's, and has had to find ways to deal with it without sacrificing industrial output. Other countries with cities in the list are still at the point where they have not yet accepted that they have a major problem, and should be looking at what countries like Japan and some European countries have done since the 1980s to clean things up. That said, flying into Kansai International Airport a couple of years back, the smog over the Osaka-Kobe region still looks really bad compared with what I'm used to in London (I live just outside London with a good view over the city, so I can see the smog dome most days, and especially at nights when it scatters the light from below).

  11. Sepultura FTW! by Siener · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Actually they only get second place on this list (Cubatao, Brazil).

    From the lyrics of their 1993 song Biotech is Godzilla:

    Like Cubatao
    "World's most polluted town"
    Air-melts your face
    Deformed children all around
  12. The list please by Ranger · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Just give me the damn list. I don't want to click through every goddamn picture so I can watch your stupid ads. If you think I'm being insensitive, then why do the people who present the info put a different name and picture on separate web pages so you can see a new ad every time you click on a link.

    And the other thing, since most of the slashdotters are in North America unless they live in or near a hazardous city, they don't give a rat's ass. There are plenty of dirty communities here and they are disproportionately affect minorities.

    --
    "You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
    1. Re:The list please by buchner.johannes · · Score: 2, Informative

      Milan, Italy
      Norilsk, Russia
      Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
      Mexico City, Mexico
      Dakar, Senegal
      Sumgayit, Azerbaijan
      Linfen, China
      La Oroya, Peru
      Cubatao Valley, Brazil
      Kabwe, Zambia

      --
      NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
  13. Pollution by pipingguy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And this is why we must reduce CO2 emissions, like, RIGHT NOW, before it destroys the planet. Man-made CO2 pollution is the worst evil threat the planet has ever faced and the only way to deal with it is to Kyoto so that polluters can buy credits and send money (somewhere) in order to continue to pollute. The fact that the two largest emerging world economies on the planet are exempt/opted-out from Kyoto is irrelevant. Quick, before the bubble bursts and we all die!

    1. Re:Pollution by pipingguy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      OK, so who is "we", who is going to be paying carbon/trade taxes and who will be adding all this CO2 to the atmosphere in the coming 10 years? If wealthy, polluting industries "pay to pollute", does that actually reduce emissions? Where does the money go? How much time will it take until "we" are safe again? Will we see objectively measured results that all parties agree on? Is it a 10 year, 20 year, 50 year plan to save the planet? So many questions.

    2. Re:Pollution by BlueParrot · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It works like this:

      The main reason Coal is being used to produce electricity rather than say Nuclear, Wind Power and Solar is price. Coal is cheap. If you impose a carbon tax , however, forcing companies that emit a lot of CO2 to pay for it, then that will make electricity generation from coal more expensive, and thus hopefully cause electric utility companies to build nuclear power plants, wind turbines, and solar panels, instead.

      The idea is that you integrate the environmental cost of pollution into the market system, thus forcing supliers to take environmental concerns into consideration when making business decisions. Now, while flat out taxation is one way to achieve this, it is very difficult to determine how much to charge for a given amount fo environmental damage, and this is where tradeable emission permits comes into play. Rather than taxing companies directly, what you do is you decide how much of a certain pollutant we can emit without causing major trouble, and then you auction it off to highest bidder. That way you force the market to adapt to a lower emission scenario, and the price adjusts itself according to normal market principles. With time you can then reduce the "acceptable" level of emissions as technology improves, periodically reducing the amount of pollution.

      The catch is of course that this WILL have negative effects on other aspects of the economy. The important thing to realize is that this is not some new negative effect the government has created, it is a price that we were previously paying in terms of environmental damage. What tradeable permits do is to limit the extent to which manufacturers can impose that cost on everybody, and instead put it right down where it belongs , with the consumers that use goods and services that generate pollution during their production. Yes, I said consumers, not companies. Manufacturers will on pass the cost to the consumers, in the form of higher prices, and this will in turn reduce demand.

      "Oh but you can tax as much as you want people still want to drive their cars... blah blah blah...". This is why you use tradeable permits rather than direct taxation. Tradeable permits outright forces the market to adapt meaning prices will increasethe UNTIL they are high enough that demand drops. When it comes to goods that people consume a lot regardless of price ( such as gasoline ) this trabnslates into a large price increase. When it comes to things you can eaisly replace with other things, the increase in price will be smaller.

      The real problem is that the cost of CO2 is really really large. Emitting it causes major damage to the planet, curtailing it causes huge costs to the environment. There isn't an easy solution to this, which is why a number of peopel prefer sticking their head in the sand and deny the whole thing. I am seriously very sceptical to weather the necessary measures will be taken. People won't put up with a 3 fold increase in energy prices ( which is where wind power is relative to coal and nuclear ) so if we hope to get rid of coal it would appear that unless we get a sudden breakthrough in solar, only Nuclear has a chance to save us. Somewhat ironically, the most hardline environmentalist groups oppose it almost religiously, and thus it woudl appear we will be stuck with coal for a long time.

    3. Re:Pollution by Sapphon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If wealthy, polluting industries "pay to pollute", does that actually reduce emissions?

      Err... yes. "Pay to pollute" => pollution costs money => you can make a bigger profit by lowering costs, in the form of pollution => Profit! Oh, and Environmental Quality! Economics 101, hello?

      Where does the money go?

      That depends on the scheme. Some governments issue the certificates for free and let the industry trade amongst itself. The money then goes to whoever sells their certificates i.e. whoever pollutes the least. How much is polluted then depends primarily on how many certificates are issued.
      Alternatively the goverment can sell the certificates. This isn't a bad idea, because that way the Gov't gets the money and can fund environmental cleanups (or minister junkets, whatever). Biggest problem is the fact that the government may set a too low or too high price.

      You can get the benefits of both by having the government sell a fixed number of certificates (who gets to buy them is another issue) and letting the secondary market take care of the process of marginal cost/benefit equalisation. The issue price would have to be below the market equilibrium price, but with a bit of practice the government can figure it out.

      Current practice in the EU, AFAIK, is Model 1: issue the the certificates, let the market trade. In the last few years there were far too many permits on the market, so that the costs for a ton of CO2 were somewhere around 0.26â, but this year it's around 20â, I think (haven't checked the market recently).

      I don't know what the GP meant with his "two largest emerging world economy haven't signed the Kyoto protocol" statement: Brazil, China, and India have all ratified it.

      Answers to the OP's further questions can be found in the Kyoto protocol itself:
      Full Text
      Layman's guide

      --
      Antiquis temporibus, nati tibi similes in rupibus ventosissimis exponebantur ad necem.
  14. LA has gotten better by SL+Baur · · Score: 2, Informative

    That's the low inversion layer and no matter how little smog there is in LA, it will always look worse.

    I lived in metro LA for almost two decades and the situation was improving over that whole period.

    Tokyo, Kobe and Beijing to name three cities I either lived in or visited since have far, far worse problems. Beijing is the most polluted city I've ever had the misfortune of visiting.

  15. At Pitt... by maz2331 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Your greatest heavy metal risk is an object around 100 - 250 grains moving at roughly Mach 1.1.

    To avoid exposure, Kevlar is reccomended. To avoid repeat exposure, first puchase a return mechanism, minimum size 9mm, but preferentially .45" in diameter. Second, obtain permission from the Allegheny County Sheriff to posesss such mechanism in any place desired. Third, have such mechanism available.

    Seriously - Pitt is in the middle of Oakland, and right next to "Da Hood" (The Hill District). Lived there, been there, avoid it at almost any costs now.

    1. Re:At Pitt... by mischief+herald · · Score: 2, Informative

      Incorrect. I LIVE in Oakland. It is not "right next" to "Da Hood" (though boundary-wise it technically is "next to" Oakland). Unfortunately the route to downtown goes through the Bluff (a.k.a the Hill District), but Oakland itself is rarely affected by the blight that sits there. Oakland's problem is more bike theft than anything else, and while certain areas of Pittsburgh city are exposed to high violent crime (like the Hill District, or less and less East Liberty), if you went to Pitt you certainly know that the universities are excellent at keeping their campuses safe. Additionally (reading on), the Pittsburgh metro area has the "lowest crime among the 25 largest metro [areas]."

      --
      "Someday I would like to quote myself."
  16. Does anybody know more comprehensive list? by llirik · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It would be nice to find a list of all major cities ranked by their pollution level. I would be curious to see NYC vs London vs Paris vs Tokyo vs Beijing.

    1. Re:Does anybody know more comprehensive list? by permaculture · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not a comprehensive list, but it does include some of the cities you mentioned.

      http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/12/15/news/pollute.php

      "The dirtiest of the major cities, ranked by micrograms of particles of pollution dust per cubic meter, was Beijing, at 142. By comparison, Paris averages around 22 micrograms, London 24 and New York 27. The WHO guideline is 20."

      --
      Environmentalism is the new Victorianism. Everyone ties on a green corset and pretends we're virtuous.
  17. In Beijing at the moment by sith · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The first time I visited Beijing, I was frankly shocked that life can exist in this environment. I'm in Beijing again right now, and have just gotten used to the idea that you need to budget some time each morning to hack up gunk from your lungs. I'm less than 1 kilometer from the forbidden city at the moment, but can't see it. I know it's there, because a rainstorm earlier this week cleared the air enough to see that far.

    Great city once you get past the air though...

  18. You think that's bad... by jaaron · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Check out Guangzhou, China. I've been there several times and never seen a clear day there. Though I hear Xian is worse.

    --
    Who said Freedom was Fair?
  19. China in general vs. California during fires by istartedi · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Recent fires in California have turned the Sun that subtle orange color, and left the air with a noticeable stench of smoke. On a local Bay Area network TV station, they interviewed a woman who had just flown back from China. She said that these conditions were ALMOST as bad. Almost??? That blew my mind. Imagine living with smoke worse than this ALL YEAR LONG.

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
  20. Re:Poor Pittsburgh by ShadowBlasko · · Score: 2, Funny

    Well, its an even trade.

    When it rains in Pittsburgh, the effluvia travels down the Ohio and gives those of us downstream unsafe levels of human waste in our water, so we give you back our carbon.

    Its the circle of life, Ohio valley style.

    You're welcome!

    signed:
    Cincinnati

    --
    There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order- Ed Howdershelt Via Tass
  21. air with lumps in it by SgtChaireBourne · · Score: 3, Funny

    The boundary you saw between the smog and clean air above is from an inversion layer

    One of the last times I flew into LAX, I recall my surprise as the plane hit a bump as we descended from the clear air into the brown air. It took me a moment to recall the temperature inversion and that the change in density probably caused the bump. Even in LA the air can't get so nasty it has lumps in it. Corrosive and toxic, yes, but lumps, no.
    --
    Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
  22. Excellent Idea, alas not new. by MRe_nl · · Score: 2, Informative

    inhabitat.com -- Google Earth has an overlay that shows pollution concentration around the world. You can see all the nasty stuff you're breathing in every day.

    --
    "Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
  23. Re:Poor Pittsburgh by paanta · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Pittsburgh doesn't belong on this list _at all_. Yes, there's tons of shit in the ground, and the air sucks by US standards, but c'mon. Anyone who has traveled to _any_ third world city knows there's no comparison in terms of livability. Pittsburgh is paradise by those standards. Even compared to most european cities, where everyone is buzzing around on catalyst-free scooters and 2-stroke engines, Pittsburgh air is tasty.

  24. Within another 10 years, maybe sooner by WindBourne · · Score: 3, Insightful

    these will all be chinese/tibetan cities. Sadly, China has no real pollution controls on anything. They have a trillion US$, but do not want to purchase any of our's or EU's controls for their coal plants. Likewise, from the pix, their mining techniques are far worse than has been deployed. Their tailings are leaving a lot of waste to run into their streams. The sad thing is that they can see what other nations did, and have the ability to buy better equipment and processes, but insist instead that they be given the tech.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  25. Some additional info by Tweenk · · Score: 5, Interesting

    1. In Norilsk the soil around the city is so polluted that it's economically feasible to mine it for nickel.
    2. There is an alternative list with more information and better research from the Blacksmith Institute: The World's Worst Polluted Places. (However, it contains Europe's biggest de facto nature reserve as one of the most polluted places in the world (Chernobyl exclusion zone))

    --
    Those who would give up liberty to obtain working drivers, deserve neither liberty nor working drivers.
  26. That's not polluted, THIS is polluted by div_B · · Score: 4, Informative

    Dzerzhinsk FTW!

    Dioxin and phenol levels 7 orders of magnitude above the safe limit, an annual death rate exceeding the birth rate by 260% (life expectancies: M=42, F=47) and generally more soviet era chem-weapons-chem than you can shake a mutant-whatever at.
    The wiki doesn't really do it justice...I saw the BBC doco once, and it was appalling. There's a `pond' so choked with chemicals that it appears to have a consistency closer to foam rubber than water, and a huge pit in the ground with hundreds of barrels of toxic waste spilling out the top of it. It's hard to believe that people actually live there. Truly tragic. :(

  27. Well, fuck. There goes my vacation by elrous0 · · Score: 2, Funny

    And I had already promised the wife and kids that we could go to Norilsk this year. Damn!

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  28. Re:Asuncion is dirtier! by digitalchinky · · Score: 2, Informative

    The US is not dirty in any sense of the way I understand 'dirty'

    I live in a Manila high rise condo (Philippines), nice part of town, but I travel almost daily across the city. My usual journey leaves me thinking that most of those pictures look about as clean as the queens bathroom in comparison.

    This country has some world class areas, stunning in fact, yet you take a peek over the fence line and you'll see shanties 5 stories high filling up absolutely every bit of space left vacant for more than a few minutes. (Outside of Manila is a different story, not clean, but not disgustingly dirty either, provincial cities are generally far better than Manila)

    The Philippines, definitely not as bad as parts of China, but really, the US is far from dirty. It shouldn't even be in the list.

    Stick in Indonesia, Thailand, Vietnam, and a few others in the region and you'll have yourself a list of dirty, in every possible way :-)

  29. Bookmarking that article by yankeessuck · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm bookmarking that article and whipping it out everytime some blowhard complains about treehuggers. Hey, guess what, the treehuggers are the reason why there's only one US city on that list.

  30. Hope all you want by biolysis · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "If you impose a carbon tax , however, forcing companies that emit a lot of CO2 to pay for it, then that will make electricity generation from coal more expensive, and thus hopefully cause electric utility companies to build nuclear power plants, wind turbines, and solar panels, instead."

    Please explain why you think the companies won't simply pass the cost on like they always do?

    That is inevitably the problem with taxing producers, they simply raise their cost and the consumers get screwed. Do you really want to rely on your hope, and the possibility that eventually people will get pissed enough to force the energy producers into building more power plants/wind turbines/solar panels?

    Taxing them isn't the answer, at least not for changing behavior.

  31. Tragedy of the commons by gnuman99 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And what do people complain about in these shit places? The environment? No! They complain about lack of money, about laws and other worthless shit.

    Back few months ago, Bombay,India wanted to mandate *some* regulations that would require those shitty rickshaws to stop using kerosine mix crap for fuel. Never passed because of lobbying from the rickshaw drivers. I guess they don't give a shit if they die at 30 from lung cancer, but they do care if they have to pay *anything* to make their own environment cleaner.

    This situation is the the everywhere. Kind of makes you think how shortsighted we think.

    1. Re:Tragedy of the commons by lokedhs · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Tell me about it... I go to Bombay on a regular basis, and the one thing that really gets to me there is the bad air.

      The food you can get there is fantastic though. :-)

    2. Re:Tragedy of the commons by Gorshkov · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I guess they don't give a shit if they die at 30 from lung cancer, but they do care if they have to pay *anything* to make their own environment cleaner.
      It's hard for most people to worry about what's going to happen to themselves when they're 30 when they're too busy working their butts off to try to feed the family supper that night.

      This situation is the the everywhere. Kind of makes you think how shortsighted we think.
      Farsight is a luxury only for those who are not fighting for survival on a daily basis.