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Real-World 3G Monthly Cost With Taxes and Fees?
Kristl writes "I have called AT&T and walked into several AT&T stores to ask 'How much will an AT&T phone plan cost per month with taxes and fees and everything?'. No one can answer this question. They are evasive and become testy when I push them on it. Their answer is they can't tell me what the government is going to charge me as the fees can vary month to month, but I've been an AT&T customer for several years, and my taxes and fees have not varied more than a dollar in all of that time.
So I question them: 'Can you just tell me what the taxes and fees will be for a 3G plan in California that has the basic calling plan, basic data plan, and the basic text plan?' I even do the math for them, that's $75. Okay AT&T, what are the taxes and fees on $75? Oh, they can't tell me that, as the taxes and fees can vary from month to month." There's more to this justified rant (below); real-world numbers in comments could help answer the questions that cell carriers seem content to sidestep as completely as possible.
"Okay ATT, can you tell me what the taxes and fees were on $75 plan last month? No.
Okay AT&T, cn you tell me what my taxes and fees were last month on my current $40 plan ... that only requires reading my bill right? Oh good! They can read! Yes they can tell me what the taxes and fees were on my $40 account last month.
Okay AT&T, we have progress ... can you now pull up a plan that has a $40 calling plan, a $30 3G data plan, and a $5 text plan? The answer? No, they can't do that, that would be an invasion of privacy.
So I ask, can they go through the motions of setting my account up for the iphone plan I described above and then tell me what the taxes and fees amount to? Oh, of course not!
This doesn't seem like it should be so hard. What is the conspiracy that ATT refuses to tell me what the my bill would cost per month were I to switch to a new plan?"
Okay AT&T, cn you tell me what my taxes and fees were last month on my current $40 plan ... that only requires reading my bill right? Oh good! They can read! Yes they can tell me what the taxes and fees were on my $40 account last month.
Okay AT&T, we have progress ... can you now pull up a plan that has a $40 calling plan, a $30 3G data plan, and a $5 text plan? The answer? No, they can't do that, that would be an invasion of privacy.
So I ask, can they go through the motions of setting my account up for the iphone plan I described above and then tell me what the taxes and fees amount to? Oh, of course not!
This doesn't seem like it should be so hard. What is the conspiracy that ATT refuses to tell me what the my bill would cost per month were I to switch to a new plan?"
In most of Europe, sellers of consumer products are required to state the actual final price that the consumer is paying. And that includes monthly cell phone tariffs.
I went in the other day to get an iPhone and change my plan that I've had for several years and they were surly as hell.
The guy who was waiting on me kept just walking away for a couple minutes at a time and wouldn't answer anything straight.
He wouldn't say when they were getting another shipment other than to say they could put me on a waiting list if I paid in full today and then it would be one to two weeks.
He never really looked me in the eyes and kept mumbling when I would talk to him.
Most questions were answered with "I don't know" and then when it came down to it, I had to dial 611 to change over my service because I was an old customer.
I still want to get an iPhone because it really is the perfect device for me and my mac based household, but I wish I had an Apple Store near me where I could have at least gotten decent customer service.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 is the magic number.
This doesn't have to do with cell phones, but it does have to do with AT&T. About 2 or 3 years ago I got a landline phone plan with them that was unlimited local and long distance for $40 per month. It was more expensive than a place like Vonage, but I really wanted the physical land line. I got my first bill and it was $52, and there were no setup fees in there. They had managed to pack in $12, or 30%, of taxes, fees, surcharges, cost recovery (what the hell, isn't that the point of charging the first price to begin with), 911 fees, etc. So I immediately switched to VOIP. I have to say that these phone companies suck, and I cannot believe that they can't give you an all-in number.
I recently switched to AT&T. In the store, prior to executing the contract, I was provided a printed sheet of paper with my plan, estimated local taxes, fees, and my 15% monthly discount. My bill hasn't varied from that estimate by more than a dollar. Certainly, the OP just isn't talking to the right people or found a bad CSR.
That is definitely true for T-Mobile as well. The main difference is that whenever I call T-mobile their reps seem to be 20-something flirty females. I've asked questions about how much plans cost and when our contract expires, etc, and it seems like they'll do anything to get you to stay. One time I called to ask when my family's contract expires, and the girl immediately started telling me about how we just became eligible for free phones and such. I was sort of surprised so I asked her how long we had been eligible and she hesitated for a moment and then said "uuhh like a week." She definitely made that up.
Its = possessive. It's = "it is"
You don't think that T-Mobile is kicking customer retention into high gear because people are leaving for ATT+iPhone, maybe? That's what it sounds like to me. Like how you can get your APR lowered on a credit card by hinting that you're considering to cancel your card...
Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
Back in 1993 a I had the police called on me because I couldn't get an answer to the question about the 'total' cost of a program.
I asked about the total cost of setting up an account with X phone and got an answer, but when we got near the end of the transaction, there was an additional charge and I stopped. I thought the total cost was what you said before. Well, yes, plus this fee. Ok, that's is that the total cost? Yes. ... but don't worry, the consolidation in telecom companies since that time has been great for customers. Things are so much better now.
As you might guess, we went through three iterations of this before I accused the clerk of fraud through the advertsing, in-store material and statements about the 'total' cost. None of it was true and none of it was 'total.'
This is done all across the US, and the main reason is that the taxes you are going to pay depend on where you buy the product. And not just depending on what state (but that is the biggest difference), but also depending on the particular city. So any advertising would have to take that into account making national campains would be unworkable.
So rather than that everything is adversised without taxes.
The portion of the "regulatory compliance fee" that's chargeable to CALEA (i.e. wiretapping) should be broken out and listed as such.
Actually, Yes.
If you live in another country, you can pay their taxes. The first ~$90,000 of your out-of-country income is exempt from U.S. taxes.
Two things to be careful of:
1. In most cases, foreign taxes might be more than U.S. taxes.
2. Might be difficult to get a job or establish residence.
But your cell phone costs will probably be cheaper. e.g. Mainland China - about 2 minutes/US$0.01
I recently switched from Sprint to Mobile, each with a 2-phone family plan with the least number of minutes (500 and 700). The total cost is about the same for each, but the fees are funny.
With Sprint: $59.99 monthly, $3.88 Sprint surcharges (these should ALWAYS be in the advertised price but somehow never are), $4.41 Government taxes & fees (start of Jun 2008). The total varies about 20 cents every month. Total fees 8.29.
With T-Mobile: $55.99 monthly, $4.67 taxes and fees on the account, $4.15 taxes and fees on the first line, $4.12 taxes and fees on the second. Total fees $12.89 (end of Jun 2008).
The total cost of each? 68.28 for sprint, 68.93 for T-mobile (w/200 more minutes we never use). Why does Sprint only assess fees on one line and T-mobile both lines? (Okay, technically, 30 cents of the Sprint fees are on the second line).
Anyway, there's some data. The funniest TV ad I ever saw was for DSL advertised at $19.99 a month in big bold writting and in tiny blurry letters at the bottom of the screen it says "There is an additional $2.00 cost recovery fee." Where is a class action lawsuit when you need one?
I've got relatives in Norway. Actually, most my relatives live in Norway, except those who live in the Netherlands.
Norway is known for it's high tax rates. Most people pay 50% or more of their income in taxes. That is, they pay 50% or more of their taxable income in taxes. Since there appears to be no end of deductions one can take in Norway, most my relatives pay less taxes than me, despite having higher incomes.
As if that wasn't enough, they can buy an iPhone with only a one year contract. Which can't be extended foreer and ever, like the contract I would be expected to sign if I bought an iPhone in the US. As if that wasn't enough, the Norwegian cell phone plan would be cheaper than the US one. Even if I had an iPhone purchased in Norway and used it in the US.
Even if I kept using my old Sony Erickson phone, a Norwegian cell phone plan would be cheaper. Even if I used it in the US.
Other countries probably have even better rates. AT&T needs competition. REAL competition.
there's been a lot of talk on /. lately about broadband and mobile broadband capacity. The taxes that we pay are directly linked to that.
telecommunications and broadband operators get federal monies from the universal service fund to expand infrastructure to the entire nation. I mean that's the purpose for the universal service fund. Why haven't telecom/mobile and broadband operators expanded their capacities and/or service areas? They are required to pay into the fund. They pass the costs directly on to us. Then they get that money back to build out their infrastructure.
Why aren't they doing it? Where is that money ending up?
11/20/2007 http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07J-4A1.pdf
section I article 2. "We are also mindful that it is consumers who must pay universal service contributions.
Despite our strong interest in providing adequate funding for broadband deployment, we also want to
avoid significantly increasing the burden on those consumers."
section I article 4. "The Joint Board recognizes that while mobility and broadband
capabilities have both received some funding from universal service dollars, the funding has been entirely
within the formal context of providing basic voice telecommunications services by eligible
telecommunications carriers (ETCs)."
This was from a recommendation document where the universal service fund commissioners issued a recommendation that they setup an additional fund for broadband and one for mobile service. Where is that money ending up? AT&T, Sprint, and T-mobile are all rolling out 3g services. Where is the broadband service capacity increases?
They're using their grammar skills there.
I'm also on the front line, so my "poor" customer service IS to be blamed on the damn org chart. Whether the company doesn't give a shit or not has nothing to do with people giving me a hard time because I'm not provided with the information they want.
Trust me. I've had 30-minute arguments with customers over this. And then I've passed on the problem to corporate because this is a problem. And nothing's changed. How am I supposed to take responsibility for this?
(1) Switch to e-billing
(2) Change your billing address to anywhere in Portland, OR 97202
(2b) You might need to switch your area-code to 503 -- some carriers will let it slide though
(3) Get charged the lowest cell-phone taxes in the country
I saved about $4/month switching from Taxachussets to Oregon. My parents saved $7 because our town (yes, the town) levies a $2/month tax on cell phones on top of the country and state taxes. Plus, as an added bonus, you can reward a low-tax jurisdiction with more revenue while depriving a high-tax one.
http://www.forbes.com/2005/06/06/cz_sw_0606cellphone.html
CDMA equipment is by and far more expensive than GSM (like almost 10x's more expensive....thanks Qualcomm). In fact, carriers such as US Cellular deployed TDMA (pre-GSM) after analog, and then switched to CDMA. CDMA is a more robust technology than GSM, which is why it give the appearance of better coverage in the sticks. It's also the reason GSM carriers have migrated to UMTS (which is simply wideband CDMA, or W-CDMA). And I think if you compare native coverage, you'll see that AT&T has coverage quite comparable to Alltel and VZW, and I highly doubt they've spent more money on building out their network compared to VZW.
OK If he wants to know before he signs up with us I can usually estimate a bill with all the features within about 2 dollars. If that's not good enough I can break out my own bill and show him what exactly I am taxed on my current personal rate plan. I have done this for my customers on numerous occasions. I don't want my customers to have ANY surprises when they get their bills. Surprises result in returns which result in chargebacks which means I lose my commissions. It is in my best interest to make sure that my customers FULLY understand everything they are charged for BEFORE they leave my store. Remember folks if you sign up for ANY cell service you have 30 days to change your mind on it. AT least that is how it is here in Florida. I have had customers decide to cancel their service after I went over what the bills would actually look like. I don't mind that at all. I would rather them cancel the service right then and there than have a chargeback for a disconnect in a few months.
You got all the way to asking about taxes and fees?!? I haven't been able to get a straight answer to (ever changing) minutes.
What is the minimum billed increment? 6 seconds like some of our business lines? 18/6 like others we have? 60-seconds?
When does billed time start? When the call connects? when you press send? When the phone starts ringing? And when does it end? Several companies made a subtle change and switched from connect-start to airtime-start (though still only charging if you connect) thus grabbing lots of extra minutes (but avoiding raising published rates).
What calls are free and what cost extra? 611? 911? 511? 311? 411?
When someone leaves a voicemail, does that count as usage? What about fetching voicemail? From a landline?
Calls on hold with call-waiting? Both legs of 3-way?
Many years ago a TV show grabbed a rocket-scientist and a brain-surgeon, gave each a phone bill and asked them to explain all the charges. Neither came close.
It's high time the government set standard definitions (i.e. minutes start when the call connects and end when either party terminates the call. Billing increments shall be 0.1 minutes. Or whatever.) Let the companies set their own rates but conform to standard definitions and bill formats.
Of course some recent attempts to make phone bills understandable were shot down because then the terrorists win or some such crap.
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"You are not remembered for doing what is expected of you." - Atul Chitnis
Most of the iPhone users I know feel the same way -- the iPhone is fantastic, AT&T is so horrible that they can hardly stand it. One of the biggest complaints is that the bill is entirely too complicated, flat rate plans result in unpredictable bills that can vary widely from month to month, and the billing practices are so complex that AT&T customer service can explain neither the policy nor an actual bill, to any reasonable degree of accuracy.
BTW, avoid that $5 insurance fee like the plague. My ex was paying $5 insurance per month on a late-90's pre-Ericssen Sony phone. When it finally broke, the insurance said that they didn't cover phones that old. Of course, she had been paying them the entire time to cover the phone that old, but they re-assured us that such a thing was not possible. They then asked if she would like to cancel her coverage.
See also this class action suit. These frequently come with a 100 dollar deductible and send back a refurb phone that is less expensive than that deductible. Similarly, they insure the current value of the phone, not the purchase value. As the value of the phone drops, your premium does not, and the likelyhood of a functional replacement drops to zero.
The ______ Agenda
Here in the UK there's no competition for the iPhone (not that I want one anyway) but the rates and plans are actually pretty darn good.
I'm more of a Nokia person myself, and my N95 on the 3UK network provides 1,100 minutes inclusive or 1,100 text messages or any mixture of the two providing the total of both is not more than 1,100 (extremely unlikely in my case!); A further 300 minutes for 3-to-3 calls (which is fine as all my relatives and most friends use 3); unlimited internet access (proper internet, not just WWW); 90 video minutes, they support Skype properly and all sorts of other stuff. Total outlay per month is $80 USD (converted).
People complain about ripoff Britain but some things we actually seem to get a reasonable deal on.
Another big difference with the UK is that in the UK prices advertised are legally required to include everything (there are a few exceptions, most notably flights, but these are being closed). You never buy something, get to the checkout, and find that it doesn't include tax. The same is true with mobile phone contracts - whatever taxes there are have to be included in the advertised price.
This often makes things look much cheaper when you compare US prices, but then you get to the checkout in the US and they add city sales tax, then state sales tax, then some random product-specific tax and you're only paying slightly less. I've never understood why Americans are so opposed to the idea of knowing how much they are going to pay before they buy something.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
I am a little less concerned with your idiotic view of US tax law, and a little more concerned with what will and will not put me in prison. Don't pay US taxes the IRS says you owe, and your ass will end up in prison. I'd say that makes those laws pretty damned enforceable.
Just because it's someone's first language, doesn't mean they can speak coherently.
I am English(*) and when I went through US customs, the guard asked me, "Do you have a Green Card, or a Visa?", to which I answered, "Yes."
He asked a few times, with both of us getting more and more confused. To me, all I cared was that I had something I needed to get through. What he wanted to know was which one I had, not if I had one.
I also recall calling some service (I forget which) and presented with someone who spoke with a heavy Mexican accent.
Furthermore, I *know* Indian people whose English is very good, and I recently met an Italian (shock) whose English was so good that I wouldn't have known he wasn't born and bred English (I saw him drive once and that gave him away(**)).
I had to deal with an Indian person on a help line not so long ago, and I didn't have any trouble understanding him. He wasn't much help though - he just told me to go through all the baby steps as all the previous people I'd talked to - but I can't blame that on him.
Heck, some US accents are extremely difficult for me to understand - not just because they've made up their own words so it's not English any more. Some US people had the same trouble with me, and my accent is about as English as they come - extremely neutral - I often found myself having to repeat myself.
Of course, you probably meant US English, which covers just as many accents/etc as English itself; but US English != English.
Perhaps US people just need to get out more and experience a wider variety of accents...
(*) not that being English means I can speak coherently either. Some of the regional accents can be quite difficult for even me. I was going to say the northern accents (Jordie/Scouse/etc), but one of my neighbours in Somerset spoke fluent werzel and I couldn't understand a word of it.
(**) joke
Max.
Not at all. I've been a T-Mobile customer for well over 5 years. They've always had great customer service and retention. A (long) while back I wanted to upgrade from my old v60 to the T610. AT&T was giving away the T610 (T616 actually, same phone though) for free with a new contract. T-Mobile was selling it for $50 to new customers and $100 for existing customers (that's after the new contract discount). I called them out on it, told them how ridiculous that was and that I wanted the T610 for free from them, just like AT&T was offering, or I would simply walk over to AT&T and get it there. Instantly, the rep said "I can't do that - it's in the system at a set price....but I CAN give you the next 3 months of service free, which works out to be a little more than the cost of the phone..."
They're in it to make money just like everybody else and they'll do what they can to get it. The thing I like about them is the fact that they seem to understand that keeping their customers is cheaper than getting new ones - so they actually TRY to treat their customer well.
They have an entire division dedicated to working with phones that they "don't support" (like the China-Mobile firmware Motorola e680i I had for a while). I've had support techs refuse to get off the line until my Linux laptop was GPRS tethering properly off that same "unsupported" phone. Add all that up and it becomes a little bit clear why I've stayed with them for so long.