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Drug Halts Decline In Alzheimer's Patients

ljw1004 writes "Alzheimer's researchers are divided on whether the disease is caused by 'beta amyloid' (a peptide found in Alzheimer brains) or by 'tau protein' (normally used for cellular scaffolding, but can aggregate out of control and destroy neurons). Today in Chicago a new drug has been announced that stops tau aggregation and appears to have halted Alzheimer's-related decline in 300 clinical trial patients. The drug is known as 'rember.' Do you have friends or family who appear to be on the road to dementia? Here is an online questionnaire, part of one used in the clinical trial to diagnose dementia. (Disclosure: I made the online questionnaire, and my father is one of the scientists behind the drug.)"

38 of 222 comments (clear)

  1. Rember by StarfishOne · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "The drug is known as 'rember.' "

    Is that a deliberate pun on 'remember'? :?

    1. Re:Rember by Nasajin · · Score: 5, Funny

      I imagine they started writing remember, but forgot how far they'd gotten when committing it to paper.

    2. Re:Rember by StarfishOne · · Score: 5, Insightful

      For clarity and completeness I should add:

      This is awesome news. My grandfather is suffering from an advanced state of this disease and it's horrible to see in what state he currently 'lives'.

      He does not recognize me, or my brothers, or my parents (inc. his own son!).

      Perhaps my first post (parent) sounded like I did not take this seriously. I guess it's more of a coping mechanism that got in action.

      To all the scientists: please keep up this wonderful work! It'll probably be too late for my grandfather, but no-one should have to suffer like.

      I hope that it won't be long before it helps to save many lives from being destroyed.

    3. Re:Rember by blahplusplus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "He does not recognize me, or my brothers, or my parents (inc. his own son!)."

      This just goes to show us how important our memory systems are in our intelligence and what an important role it plays in our lives.

    4. Re:Rember by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      On the list of things that should be remembered, I'd hope that "me" would be pretty high.

    5. Re:Rember by Smallpond · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Unless you recently fired a bunch of US Attorneys, in which case losing your memory can be extraordinarily helpful.

    6. Re:Rember by pitje · · Score: 3, Insightful

      you mean it's horrible for you to see how he's doing. He's probably past the stage where he knows that 'there is something wrong'.
      That's the stage I had the most problems with when my grandfather had Alzheimers'.
      When he got to the stage where he thought he was a little boy again, he was much more cheerful. Again, for the family it was no pleasure to see that, but he had the time of his life :)

    7. Re:Rember by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 4, Funny

      That's probably the real reason Fermat never finished his last theorem.

    8. Re:Rember by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't mean to hurt your feelings, but I do work in health care, on a Memory Care Unit, specifically. The MCU is designed for people with many forms of dementia, our most common diagnosis being Alzheimer's. I am sure you know many of the ugly symptoms of this disease. Confusion, loss of memory, loss of fine motor skills, deteriorating ability to perform activities of daily living, eventual death, etc. This drug may sound like a godsend, but think about it for a moment.

      If your loved one breaks down crying several times a day because he or she can't tell where everyone is or where they are, if he goes into violent rages because he thinks he is being held against his will, if he lives in a constant state of fear because he knows something is wrong but he can't figure out what it is, if he tries day after day to go home but his captors refuse to et him go, causing him to fear for his life... do you really want a drug that will keep him in that state, somewhat permanently?

      At best, wait until the affected person progresses to a state of Alzheimer's that is more comfortable for him or her -- around stage 5 (out of 7 total) people forget that something is wrong and they happily live their lives in total confusion. Then start the drug therapy. But stalling people's progress in a state that makes them absolutely miserable is not a miracle drug's miracle cure. It's torture.

      Check out http://www.iatbdementiacare.com/index2.html I worked with the guy who runs the site and wrote the book on Dementia Possible Care. He is crazy insightful and smart when it comes to caring for people with Alzheimer's. Trust me, the $20 for the book will serve you tremendously.

    9. Re:Rember by Brandano · · Score: 5, Funny

      Unless you are talking about Windows

    10. Re:Rember by StarfishOne · · Score: 5, Insightful

      He's probably past the stage where he knows that 'there is something wrong'.

      First of all I understand completely what you're saying and to a certain extend that is true.

      But on the other side, his body is starting to fail and he is suffering from that. "Gradually, minor and major bodily functions are lost" as Wikipedia describes it.

      It's getting somewhat better now, but recently he could barely breath, general pain all over his body and basically unable to swallow, combined with a cough he developed. He could not even eat Apple mush when helped.

      Every now and then he has a 'good moment' and suddenly he can say more than 5 words without falling asleep again, but the general condition is suffering for him.

      I know this could sound weird to some, but every time he closes his eyes I just hope that he drifts away to a better place and stays there.

    11. Re:Rember by StarfishOne · · Score: 4, Insightful

      do you really want a drug that will keep him in that state, somewhat permanently?

      No, definitely not. You raise a valid point and I understand it completely.

      My parent post should be seen more in the light of 'progress IS finally being made'... perhaps one day we can label it a disease that can be prevented.

      Not just for 'everyone out there', but I have to admit also from a slightly selfish perspective:

      Researchers do not know the exact cause of Alzheimer's disease, but it is most likely due to a combination of a variety of genetic and other factors. Genetic research is concentrating on the role of heredity -- the transmission of qualities and illnesses from parents to children -- in determining risk for, and development of, Alzheimer's disease.

      My grand father was a fish salesman for his entire life. All the Omega 3 fish oil he has ingested wasn't enough to prevent it.

      Then there's my father. We (mother, brother, me) are not sure if it's his current stress level, but in the last few months he is less 'sharp' than he used to be and his memory does fail him every now and then.

      He's 57 and the idea alone that he might be heading for the same road is very terrifying to say the least.

      And my brother and I are also starting to fear that we might have inherited a genetic disposition for this disease.

      Personally I love learning.. I'm an addicted to knowledge and I'll pick up a book in bed even if my body is almost robbing me of my consciousness by force.

      The idea that 'everything that I am' might one day start to slowly degrade freaks me out. Euthanasia is a word that comes up in this context if this situation might start to become a reality in a (hopefully) very distant future.

    12. Re:Rember by SpcCowboy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You make a valid point for patients who are already in the MCU, but your thinking is a bit shortsighted. If this drug works as advertised, it truly IS a godsend; not to those who have deteriorated to a state requiring constant care, but rather those patients who are diagnosed in the early stages of the disease. In this population, the drug could prevent them from ever progressing to the point that hospitalization is necessary.

      --
      -- Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new. -- Albert Einstein
  2. Wow, that's awesome by oodaloop · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's hard to think of a scarier disease than one where you slowly lose your mental faculties. I'd take almost any other disease over Alzheimer's.

    --
    Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    1. Re:Wow, that's awesome by BadAnalogyGuy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's hard to think of a scarier disease than one where you slowly lose your mental faculties.

      Ebola

    2. Re:Wow, that's awesome by SirShmoopie · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Its nasty, I worked in Alzheimers care for years.

      What's worse is the routine treatment of Alzheimers patients with anti psychotic drugs, Most of my time as a nurse in that field was spent undoing the damage caused by such ill advised prescribing of chemical straight jackets to deal with minor behavioural issues.
      If this drug can stop Alzheimers from getting worse once diagnosed I'd be happy, both professionally, and selfishly (I want Pratchett on this stuff NOW).

    3. Re:Wow, that's awesome by hansraj · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Let me see: On one hand I have a disease that gives me a rather quick (even though painful) death, and on other I have something that slowly turns me into a vegetable. Tough choice? I think not.

      If I was forced to pick one (without a hope for cure once I made my choice) I would pick Ebola any day of the week. Thank you very much.

    4. Re:Wow, that's awesome by loafula · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Locked in syndrome More condition than disease, but this is the worst thing I could imagine anyone ever experiencing.

      --
      FOXTROT UNIFORM CHARLIE KILO
    5. Re:Wow, that's awesome by Tim+C · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Personally I'd still rather that, than not recognise my daughter. I'd also rather put my loved ones through a relatively swift and dramatic end to my life, than a very slow, gradual decline, in which I am effectively dead to them (as I don't know who they are) long before I stop breathing or moving around.

    6. Re:Wow, that's awesome by PakProtector · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Haemorrhagic Fevers are bad, but not as bad as the public seems to paint them. Films such as Outbreak, and books such as Richard Preston's Hot Zone have made it seem like Filoviruses and other haemorrhagic diseases kill you in a matter of hours and cause you to have to be buried in a water-tight plastic bag. This is about as accurate as saying cancer patients are going to mutant into something that looks like a Horta due to out-of-control cellular replication.

      For Ebola in particular, there are methods of treatment, including a post-exposure vaccine that has shown to be 99% effective in monkeys. The only downside is that it must be administered very quickly, or there will be too much damage already done to the patient (within 4 days.)

      I can thinking of many ways of dying that are far more agonising that Ebola. MS would be one. To be gradually robbed of my motor and mental skills would be a horrible and terrifying experience. As someone who recently lost a family member who suffered from senile dementia (and whose dementia was directly responsible for her death), I can say that it is definitely worse for the sufferer than for the family. As painful as your loved one not knowing who you are is, it is far more painful for them, and to watch them, come back to moments of lucidity, only to have to have where they are and what has happened explained to them yet again.

      I think it is a sign of the times that people seem to think that physical agony can even begin to compare to psychological agony.

      --

      Edward@Tomato - /home/Edward/ man woman
      man: no entry for woman in the manual.
      "Qua!?"

    7. Re:Wow, that's awesome by rugatero · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think it is a sign of the times that people seem to think that physical agony can even begin to compare to psychological agony.

      On the contrary, I think it is only a recent development that we can see psychological pain as being as real or more real than physical pain. It is not so long ago that mental problems were casually dismissed by most as being 'just in your head'.

      The point I'm trying to make is that modern society is improving in this regard, rather than degrading.

      --
      This comment is for entertainment purposes only. Any similarity to real insight or information is purely coincidental.
  3. Video games... by Notquitecajun · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Odd thing about Gen-xers and the following generations...due to our proliferation in playing video games, there won't be as many of us with Alzheimer's, but EVERY one of us is going to wind up with carpal tunnel.

    Thank your dad for his research for all of us - this is one of the worst ways to go.

  4. Dementia != Alzheimer's by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 5, Informative

    It's important to remember that Dementia != Alzheimer's. Alzheimer's can cause a form of dementia (Alzheimer's-related dementia), but dementia has many other causes, some are age-related and some are not.

  5. Rember is Methylene Blue by Fallen+Andy · · Score: 4, Informative
    See here (a very well known biological stain) - so short term toxicity is probably well understood - long term? Who knows yet. At the very least it ought to open the way to a new class of drugs for this terrible condition

    Andy

  6. Re:tested? by DrDNA · · Score: 5, Informative

    This drug is in the second of three phases which are required prior to FDA approval.

    Phase 1: safety at various dosages
    Phase 2: small test of efficacy and determining proper dosage
    Phase 3: larger test of efficacy

    It is still years away from the market. There was a screw-up in the formulation of the highest dose in this study, and the lowest dose had no effect, so only the middle of three doses tried had any effect. I found that out here

  7. Re:tested? by MrMr · · Score: 4, Informative

    Except that in this case you can skip all that and do a little experimentation on your grandparents. This is not a new drug: it's plain old methylene blue, which has been used for all kinds of purposes for a century (from anti-malaria drug to aquarium antifungal)
    See this

  8. beta amyloid by PHPNerd · · Score: 5, Interesting

    (I'm a PhD Neuroscience student) It seems like more and more scientists are moving away from the beta amyloid plaque buildup hypthesis. While it seemed like a great lead, people who die with no symptoms of dementia or Alzheimer's Disease can still have a buildup of beta amyloid plaque as massive as the person who did die of Alzheimer's. It could be that high levels of beta amyloid plaque buildup increases the risk of getting Alzheimer's, though. It's a hard disease to crack, that's for sure. If this new drug really does work, it'll save 5 million lives a year, and that's just in the past few years; as the Baby Boomers all get past 65 we're going to start seeing a massive increase in Alzheimer's Disease.

    1. Re:beta amyloid by PakProtector · · Score: 3, Informative

      I am not a Doctor (for a couple more years), but...

      I think that Alzheimer's is probably a confluence of different things instead of just a single disease. It could be that the plaque build up does not directly cause Alzheimer's, but that it creates an environment more conducive to the real disease agent's functioning. Or it could be that they are both expressions of an underlying pathology that as yet escapes us -- they're found together not because one causes the other but because they're both caused by the same thing.

      I remember seeing some research a few months ago that showed that treating Alzheimer's patients with drugs to increase insulin sensitivity seemed to have some benefit, suggesting that the disease could be a third form of Diabetes.

      I really do wonder if it should be Alzheimer's Syndrome instead of disease. It seems that there are several different causes of the condition, at least for the moment, which either contribute to the degeneration or could be the direct cause.

      --

      Edward@Tomato - /home/Edward/ man woman
      man: no entry for woman in the manual.
      "Qua!?"

    2. Re:beta amyloid by stranger_to_himself · · Score: 3, Informative

      I saw a talk by Peter St George Hyslop on this subject a couple of weeks ago. The current thinking is that the presence of smaller beta amyloid oligomers lead to the formation pathogenic form of tau. Whether it's the tau or the beta-amyloid itself that leads to the cognitive impairment is still debated, while this work suggests that the tau is most important, one of my students is presenting work at the same meeting that suggests soluble beta amyloid concentrations (rather than plaques) are key. Neither conclusion to my mind is completely satisfactory.

  9. He suffers from Alzheimer's Disease. She has it! by Frans+Faase · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Although Alzheimer's Disease might seem a very scary disease, the reality is often that the family members suffer most. As a partner of someone with Alzheimer's Disease, I can affirm this. Although my wife is only in the early stages of the disease, the effects are already dramatic. She is no longer my equal and I often feel I have to treat her like a teenager, as she is showing similar kind of behaviour. Our teenager daughter is also suffering from not having a "normal" mom anymore.

    Although most people with Alzheimer's Disease go through periodes of depression, they often appear to be rather happy with their condition, because they are no longer aware of what has happened to them. They forget that they forget.

  10. Is it patentable? by Thelasko · · Score: 3, Interesting
    From TFA:

    Methylthioninium chloride is more commonly used as a blue dye in laboratory experiments.

    Wikipedia also notes:

    Methylene blue was used at the end of the century as a successful treatment for malaria. It disappeared as an anti-malarial during the wars in Asia, as U.S. soldiers disliked its two inevitable, fully reversible side effects: green urine and blue sclera. Interest in its use has recently been revived,[1] especially because it is very cheap.

    Which raises the question, is it patentable? TFA notes that the study was funded by a pharmaceutical company, but I am worried that the funding will end when the company discovers that the drug won't be profitable.

    --
    One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
  11. Re:"Rember" is methylthioninium chloride? by bunratty · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is apparently just an example of trying every known chemical to see if it modifies every known disease. If it works, fine, but it is not an example of science; it is apparently only an example of somewhat blindly trying everything. How is that a "treatment specifically designed"?

    In what way is this not science? Hypothesis 1: Compound A is effective against disease X. Falsified. Hypothesis 2: Compound B is effective against disease Y. Falsified. Hypothesis 3: Compound C is effective against disease Z. Not falsified. Perform double-blind tests and find a dosage that is safe and effective. Sounds like science to me.

    How would you conduct a search for safe and effective drugs? If you have a better way, I'm sure pharma companies would be all ears!

    --
    What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
  12. quite the opposite by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Actually, watching someone with advancing (but not yet devestating) Alzheimers can also show you how little memory is needed for intelligence. People can continue to cope in social situations for quite a while operating almost statelessly to guess at how they should behave. Only when you pay close attention do you realize the serious short-term memory deficit.

  13. So what's your point? by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There are two schools of thought in drug research. One is to throw lots of stuff at the wall to see what sticks, and the other is "intelligent design," using extensive modelling and simulation to build molecules on spec. So far, the former school is ahead about ten thousand to one.

    If you had syphilis in the early 1900s, would you balk at taking Salvarsan just because it contained arsenic, and because the guy who came up with it was on his 606th try? Well, we're in exactly the same boat now with respect to Alzheimer's.

    4) "... the trial was funded by a pharmaceutical company..." according to the BBC article.

    And they're getting results. What do you value more, your money or your sanity? If you get this particular disease, you (and your family) are going to be damned glad somebody came along and offered you the choice.

    If you have a better process in mind, we're all ears. So far, the more-socialized European approach has given us, well, LSD.

  14. Re:"Rember" is methylthioninium chloride? by ljw1004 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I should say that Claude Wischik thinks he *does* know what causes Alzheimer's disease. He's sure that tau tangles cause it. He's spent the past twenty years accumulating evidence and trying to convince people of the fact, but it's been hard because of the entrenched scientific dogma that amyloid causes it. The success of this drug finally is a vindication.

    You're absolutely right, though, it was a case of trying lots of chemicals. At least, the larger pharmeceutical companies have been trying hundreds of thousands of chemicals from their libraries. A smaller company like TauRx can only manage far fewer.

    But what's needed is a test-tube test to judge whether your chemical works. Previous attempts have judged whether their test chemicals work to prevent Amyloid buildup, and so they skip right over the useful ones. Claude Wischik realised that the test-tube test should be judging whether a drug works on tau tangles. This test-tube assay was the first key invention.

    After that, you need an animal test to judge whether the drug works in animals. The second key invention by TauRx is a transgenic mouse where you can make it selectively express tau aggregates. They created mice with alzheimers, watched them make their demented way around water-tanks looking for firm ground, and then showed that Rember improved their condition.

    You're right to ask about the temporary remissions. The clinical trial lasted 19 months and had 321 patients -- not a short trial! The test results had a p-value of 0.2%, i.e. there's a 0.2% chance that the improvement was due to the common random fluctuation rather than the drug's effect.

  15. Re:How is it administered? by ljw1004 · · Score: 3, Informative

    It was administered in pills. The world's supply of methylene blue largely comes from a factory in china, but TauRx wanted much higher purity for their drug, so they invented a new process for manufacturing it and oversaw production in a new factory. The methylene blue is put into pills and taken orally.

    There were difficulties with formulation. It had to do with the problem of getting the right dose to the brain, and not having it get digested. Also there was a problem (I can't remember which way round) about acid/base conditions. Maybe it was that the stomach acid wanted to oxidise the drug, so it had to be mixed with a reducing agent so it lasted long enough to reach the brain? I'm afraid I worked on the questionnaire side, not on the chemistry....

  16. Alzheimer's Research even worse than mentioned.... by spectecjr · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What gets me is that 3 years ago, people found a direct link between HHV1 (Herpes Simplex 1 - the kind you get coldsores from), and Alzheimers; literally, the plaques are riddled with the virus.

    Add into the mix the fact that new hi-res MRI devices show microbleeds all over the brain of most people, and that these break the blood/brain barrier in those areas, and it gives a very simple mechanism for the virus to get into the brain (even if it doesn't just travel up the neurons themselves).

    Why are people focusing on the plaques and the tangles? We have a virus here that lives inside of neurons, which has been found and strongly correlated with the disease.

    There are other classes of herpes virus which have similarly been implicated in brain cancer. This should be a big fat red X marks the spot. But most researchers are too specialized.

    --
    Coming soon - pyrogyra
  17. The underlying facts don't seem funny. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 3, Informative

    Funny comment. But the underlying facts about the name, and the drug, don't seem funny to me:

    1) The person who submitted the story to Slashdot says, The trademark word "rember" is written with a lower-case initial letter. A trademark in a proper noun, and must be capitalized to show that it is not a common noun. The word seems to me to be chosen to confuse those who don't know how to think about drugs in a scientific way.

    2) The "drug" is an aniline dye commonly used in laboratories. Aniline dyes have been known to cause cancer. See the comment about that, Odd facts about the BBC article, which I posted below.

    3) The Slashdot story is an advertisement, apparently. The company is looking for money for more trials. See the comment More odd facts about the drug "Rember".

    4) The above comment links to a Chicago Sun-Times newspaper article which says that two-thirds of the study produced no results and were ignored. The one-third of the study which is being considered produced only "7 percent" results.

    5) The chemical in the drug is cheap and has been widely available for decades. Apparently to make it commercial, they are claiming they have a special formulation.