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Too Human Meets Mediocre Reviews

Earlier this week, the long anticipated action-adventure game, Too Human, was finally released for the Xbox 360. After being in various stages of development for about a decade, the game made its US debut to overall lackluster marks. Gamespot weighed in with a 5.5/10, while IGN gave it a slightly more favorable 7.8. Developer Denis Dyack from Silicon Knights defended the game, saying players didn't yet "get it," and that it was "so innovative that we have put some people off." The game's reception in Japan has been similar.

26 of 195 comments (clear)

  1. Seems pretty fair... by AlmondMan · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Got the demo from Live, played it and found it unremarkable, but the setting was interesting. But then, the whole review thing is silly most places. If a game gets less than 9/10 then it's a bad game. 8.5 is a bad score it seems. A game scoring 6-7 is still in the upper half of the quality scale, and taking into account how good a game would have to be to score above a clean 9, if things were done properly instead of based on money and hype, then 7 wouldn't be a bad score at all... A local game magazine describes a 6 on it's 10 scale as a mediocre game that will appeal to fans of the genre.

  2. Don't get it. by Merls+the+Sneaky · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If game players "just don't get it" then you have made a bad game.

    1. Re:Don't get it. by Das+Modell · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, not necessarily. If you released Grim Fandango or Fallout today, I bet there'd be a lot of Halo kiddies who wouldn't "get it."

    2. Re:Don't get it. by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Contrary to what it's become popular to spout, gamers today aren't a bunch of fuckin' morons. Nor, for that matter, is Halo a bad game. Ironically, I find the people that spout these opinions to be the unintellent ones, since they're almost always hating on the game just because it's popular, or the kids these days just because they can. Very seldom is there an actual, valid, reason to back these sentiments up.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    3. Re:Don't get it. by Bodrius · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nonsense.

      For both of those titles, Halo kiddies would "get it", they'd just wouldn't like them - just like any other adventure / RPG games.

      "Sure, that's nice... but those types of games are slow and boring..."

      Those games were innovative in many ways (content, mostly) - but their gameplay mechanics were pretty conventional.

      "Sins of a Solar Empire" is probably a better example - the change is subtle enough that it can take you completely by surprise if you keep expecting an RTS, or an empire-building game like Galciv... and it's only really fun when you "get" it is neither and stop trying to play like it was Homeworld.

      --
      Freedom is the freedom to say 2+2=4, everything else follows...
    4. Re:Don't get it. by Das+Modell · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Contrary to what it's become popular to spout, gamers today aren't a bunch of fuckin' morons.

      Very seldom is there an actual, valid, reason to back these sentiments up.

      Clearly you have never visited forums populated by gamers, such as Steampowered. The average gamer is so stupid that no amount of science and philosophy can explain how they're able to even turn on a computer.

      Nor, for that matter, is Halo a bad game.

      No, but it's got a really shitty fanbase.

    5. Re:Don't get it. by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      As I said a bit above, Halo's achievement is not in graphics, gameplay, or anything like that. It's solidly average in those areas (although Halo 3 doesn't have bad graphics, I guess). The real gem that Halo has is story. The story in Halo blew anything that I had experienced before that out of the water, there was no comparison. The story in the sequels has lived up to a similarly high level. There still is no comparison between Halo's story, and the story of other FPS games on the market. That's what makes Halo great: it was the first time a really great story had been told in an FPS. And incidentally, you're right, Goldeneye is a better game mechanically... I had more fun playing Goldeneye multiplayer back in the day than I ever did or will with Halo. But one aspect of the game does not make the whole game.

      ...they are a new generation of gamers. One which I think are more concerned with pretty graphics than gameplay. I still go back to old games and love to play them. Of course I can't get the Halo gamer types to pick them up at all. So in this regard I agree with the GP that they wouldn't get Grim Fandango or Fallout or even games in the same vein.

      I take issue with this. Unless you're talking about people even younger than me (for reference's sake, I'm 23, but it seems like that's the age bracket most of the "old-school" gamers attack), the vast majority of my gamer peers I've encountered are enamored more by gameplay than graphics. We won't hesitate to play an older game like Dragon Quest or something, because we know that the graphics are merely the best they could do at the time.

      That said, we do judge modern games according to modern standards. If a game comes out with sub-par graphics, and there isn't a mitigating reason for that (one-man effort? Attempting to be more artistic at the expense of technical quality?), that's a knock against the modern game. Graphics aren't more important than gameplay, but they are as important. They're a part of the overall package, and it is the overall package which gets judged.

      Note that I'm not saying Too Human is good or bad. I played the demo and found it moderately fun, but didn't get the urge to buy it from playing the demo.

      Nor am I. I haven't played even so much as the demo, I'm merely fed up with the assumption that gamers who didn't grow up with the hobby are shallow, stupid creatures.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    6. Re:Don't get it. by Das+Modell · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Halo has, far and away, the best story to grace an FPS.

      BioShock
      Deus Ex
      Half-Life
      Half-Life 2
      System Shock
      System Shock 2
      Thief
      Thief II

      Half-Life 2 and BioShock are the only ones that were released after Halo.

      No other game, for that matter, has characters so endearing that I actually gave a damn about their fates by the end of the journey.

      Whatever credibility you might have had just vanished. Poof. Gone.

      We may see better stories in FPS games in the future, but Halo's legacy will always be that it was the first FPS to have a great tale to tell.

      The only thing I remember about Halo's story is that someone's going to activate Halo and it's going to kill everyone, and then Master Chief stops it.

    7. Re:Don't get it. by antime · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's not that we're hating on kids, but they are a new generation of gamers. One which I think are more concerned with pretty graphics than gameplay.

      People have been using that argument for pretty much as long as videogames have existed, and it is just as dumb now as it was then. There never was a period when graphics didn't matter, or a period when crap shovelware games didn't exist. It's really all rose-colored glasses and extremely selective memories.

    8. Re:Don't get it. by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      BioShock
      Deus Ex

      Are not FPSes. Or at least, Bioshock isn't, and from what I understand of Deus Ex, it isn't. They're hybrids.

      Half-Life
      Half-Life 2

      Have terrible story.

      System Shock
      System Shock 2

      See Bioshock.

      Thief
      Thief II

      Also not FPS'es. If those are FPS, then Assassin's Creed is an FPS.

      Whatever credibility you might have had just vanished. Poof. Gone

      Whatever. It isn't my fault if you don't like the characters. Entertainment is subjective that way. I don't have a problem with you disagreeing, but when you presume to speak of "losing credibility" because we disagree, you need to get off your high horse.

      The only thing I remember about Halo's story is that someone's going to activate Halo and it's going to kill everyone, and then Master Chief stops it.

      Then pay attention? Without even reading the books, I got a lot more out of it than that. No story is going to grab you if you don't pay any attention to it.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    9. Re:Don't get it. by Das+Modell · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Are not FPSes. Or at least, Bioshock isn't, and from what I understand of Deus Ex, it isn't. They're hybrids.

      See Bioshock.

      Then I guess Halo isn't an FPS either. After all, it deviates quite a bit from the model established by Doom.

      Have terrible story.

      HL2 is debatable, unless you count the Episodes, but Half-Life's story is told very well.

      Also not FPS'es. If those are FPS, then Assassin's Creed is an FPS.

      Assassin's Creed is a third person game. Thief and Thief II are first person.

      Whatever. It isn't my fault if you don't like the characters. Entertainment is subjective that way. I don't have a problem with you disagreeing, but when you presume to speak of "losing credibility" because we disagree, you need to get off your high horse.

      It's one thing to say that no other FPS game has had such good characters, but to compare Halo with all other games ever released? Sheer madness.

      Then pay attention? Without even reading the books, I got a lot more out of it than that. No story is going to grab you if you don't pay any attention to it.

      I paid attention to the story as much as I've paid attention to it in all the other games I've played. It just wasn't memorable.

    10. Re:Don't get it. by coachellamasada · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Halo kiddies couldn't play them because they lack the necessary intelligence and attention span. They can only understand pretty colors and shiny objects that blow up. I've seen players complain that the RPGs of the late 90s are unplayable because they are so "archaic," because you need to read an instruction manual to play them and because the graphics are so outdated.

      Today's Halo kiddies aren't that much different than the Street Fighter 2 or Tekken 3 players of the late 90's. Most of them just wanted to bash stuff and they didn't give a shit about games like Baldur's Gate or Fallout either. Why should they? Games to them are recreation, something you do with your friends to kill some time after school. American CRPGs on the other hand are an acquired taste for a narrow audience and I don't think less of anyone who doesn't enjoy them.

      As far as Halo players lacking intelligence and attention span, I think that has more to do with the demographic playing (mostly teenage boys) than anything. Most teenage boys are morons and have always been morons. In the 50s they liked fast cars, stag films and movies about blowing up cowboys. Today it's Halo and internet porn. Be angry about it if you must, but have some perspective.

    11. Re:Don't get it. by biqstrat2003 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      HAHAHA Disregard that, I suck cocks

    12. Re:Don't get it. by antime · · Score: 2, Insightful

      True, but there was a time when games had variety. The by far biggest annoyance of todays games is that they simply all play the same and even if a game comes up with a new idea, its instantly cloned in every other game, so that nothing stays unique for long.

      That's not true either. Today you can easily find just about any kind of game you can think of, and many more in genres you have never even heard of. Cloning has also been part of the industry for as long as it has existed. The main difference is that due to lawsuits it's far less blatant than it used to be - look in magazines from around 1980-83 and you'll find plenty of ripoffs where the only difference is one letter changed in the name. Sequels became the mainstay of the industry during the first half of the 80s (a good example here is the British documentary Commercial Breaks which followed two game companies during the run-up to the Christmas '85 sales. Then press darlings Imagine went spectacularly bust due to mismanagement and technical overreach, while competitors Ocean played it safe by focusing on a sequel to last year's hit game.)

      You still can waste time with them and have some fun, but noteworthy games that I will fondly remember in ten years down the line? Nope, most of them are pretty forgettable stuff that will be superseded by the improved sequel next year anyway.

      Stop right there! This is just what I mean by selective memory. For every of these "classic" years, go and take a look at all the games released and then tell me how large the portion of truly memorable games is.

      The uniqueness that you got back in the day, thanks to small teams and unique ideas, is pretty much gone in todays business driven world where each and every aspect of a game gets watered down so much that its near indistinguishable form the stuff you played last year.

      Successful game companies were just as business driven then (again, watch the documentary linked above). Also, digital distribution, Xbox Live, the Playstation Network and plain old PayPal means it's far easier for small independent developers to make their games available.

    13. Re:Don't get it. by brkello · · Score: 2, Insightful

      To be fair, the average gamer != the average person who posts on game forums. If you go to any forum for any game, you can generally conclude that the game is filled solely with children that are the result of first cousin (or brother-sister) relationships.

      --
      Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
    14. Re:Don't get it. by grumbel · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In the case of Fallout however you couldn't even blame them, since the game expects quite a bit of in-depth knowledge of role playing right before it even starts. One of the major annoyances for me with those RPGs is that the skill setting happens before the game even starts. How shall I know what good any of those dozens of attributes is when I haven't even set a single foot in the gaming world?

      I agree that todays games have tons of faults, but some old school games really require a lot of familiarity with the genre before you can even start making a meaningful decision about what you want to do in the game and you aren't gaining that knowledge from just starting to play the game, since those games aren't really trying much to tutor you.

  3. Makes it bland by eddy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Autoscaling is to games as loudness war is to music.

    --
    Belief is the currency of delusion.
  4. Re:Some dev's are clueless... by Have+Blue · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What's entertaining is subjective. Even if Too Human had been executed absolutely perfectly in every respect there would still be a lot of people who just don't like games where your objective is mainly to collect a ton of incrementally improving loot, or who'd rather be more strategic than wade into a crowd of monsters and start bashing heads. And there are still going to be a few people for which everything about this game just clicks and they have a blast with it despite the review scores.

    What you're really complaining about is unwillingness to stake the budget of a modern game on a new and unexplored concept instead of the same game that was made last year and proven in the market but with a graphics update, and that's a much realer and more serious problem.

  5. Re:Innovative? by Doctor_Jest · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'd rather have the ability to flesh out the story rather than be frustrated by a bloody insane enemy in a game that stops me from enjoying the story until I go to a few ruins and grind levels. That takes the fun out of the game _and_ the story. Kudos to Oblivion for having the foresight to realize the story was more important than hacking and slashing your way to higher levels and getting a cramp trying to kill a Liche or something similar.

    That sort of nonsense was why I gave up on Mass Effect. There may have been a great story in there, but awkward controls of the landing rover and VICIOUS enemies early on preventing the story from becoming entertaining. To each his own. Make it a toggle if you must, but getting rid of it means many people who don't spend 12 hours a day in front of a console will miss out on the story and the hard work developers put into the game.

    --
    It's the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
  6. Re:Bad grammar by Sentry21 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The key here, I think, is 'native speaker'. My ex-girlfriend, born in Russia, raised francophone in Quebec, speaks English well enough that you'd never know she wasn't anglophone. There's a slight accent if you listen for it, but it's subtle enough that you don't notice it after a day or two.

    She frequently used to ask me how to say something, or why something means something, or ask me to check over her writing. Frequently, I'd find mistakes which I would consider 'elementary', in the sense that they are the basic mistakes which everyone makes. She would often get frustrated, because she'd want to know what the rule was in that situation, how one was supposed to know how to write or say something in particular.

    The best I could usually tell her was 'Well... experience. You just have to know from experience how things are supposed to sound or be said or written, and eventually something will just feel right, or it won't.' I don't think she ever actually liked that answer, but I didn't feel like getting into a 'It's usually this but about half the time it's this except for two thirds of that half of the time when you're also saying this....'

    It's pretty ugly.

  7. Re:Reviews aren't everything by Stunn · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Eternal Darkness was well-liked for as long as I can remember. When it was released, I remember it being one of the best reviewed Gamecube games and it was getting all around praise from players. It just never had any commercial success, but it was always looked fondly upon.

  8. players didn't yet "get it" ? by DragonTHC · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'd call that a failure.

    If players don't get your game, maybe it's not them, maybe it's the game.

    and to say it's "so innovative that we have put some people off." Yes, I think that's it. Too Human must be too good. Way to toot your own horn Dyack.

    This thing stinks of robotic frogs all over. But I'm going to try the demo anyway. Maybe I'm wrong.

    --
    They're using their grammar skills there.
  9. Re:Innovative? by vadim_t · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Autoscaling has MANY issues.

    Badly tuned autoscaling can result in the game progressing very strangely. You start good and kill enemies with a moderate challenge at the start. But the game believes that is too easy and ramps up the difficulty until you die a couple times, at which point it sets difficulty back to easy. You get a very strange cycle where difficulty progressively rises then abruply falls.

    In games like Oblivion it manifests in a different way: It's hard to judge the player's power. For instance in Morrowind (Oblivion's predecessor) you can make items that will continously heal yourself and by performing certain tricks make yourself absurdly powerful at low levels, sometimes without trying very hard. Or, you can follow a very suboptimal progression if what interests you is say, commerce and roleplay. As a result, you get a game that's either absurdly easy or absurdly hard.

    Another problem is that you get worlds where EVERYTHING gets harder. At level 1, a rat did moderate amount of damage. At level 20, it now also does moderate damage to a knight in shiny armor, and a keen vorpal longsword of burnination +5. The lowly thugs you had issues with at level 3 now level 15, wear shiny armor and have magical swords, and inexplicably demand your lunch money. It doesn't make any sense for a warrior in the top 1% of the world to hang around a crossroads and mug people. They could go hire themselves for a much better price.

    Even the scaling is done well, the result is still strange. The cave where low life robbers are hiding is still challenging at level 15. The citadel is possible to storm at level 5. If it wasn't for the requirement of having the right items you could probably go fight the big bad at level 3, as autoscaling would ensure he'd be possible for you to defeat.

    IMO, games like Oblivion should be planned differently. Instead of autoscaling there should be a progressive increase in difficulty as you get away from civilization. The rats in an inn's cellar should be doable at level 1. The bandits on the crossroads should be moderately challenging at level 5. The hideout in the woods far from the road should be pretty hard at level 10. And if you decide to storm a castle, you'd better be armed to the teeth.

    It should be perfectly possible to make a game where you can explore even at low levels. Cities should be generally safe. Roads less so. The further you get from civilized places, the less safe it should be. It doesn't have to be frustrating, if you find you're barely surviving you should be able to return to safer places.

  10. Re:Some dev's are clueless... by TuringTest · · Score: 2, Insightful

    But when we normalize it and build it by consensus, it won't be fun anymore. And we'll have to find a different kind of fun, a new baseline.

    --
    Singularity: a belief in the "God" idea with the "demiurge" relation inverted.
  11. Re:Some dev's are clueless... by BoberFett · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Between World of Warcraft and the Diablo series, Blizzard has proven that there are tens of millions of gamers who game SOLELY for the objective of collecting incrementally improving loot.

    If Too Human fails, it means it's just a bad game.

  12. Re:Bad grammar by mobby_6kl · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I'm not a native speaker either, but it actually took me a while to recognize what the OP was complaining about. While I'm not an expert on all the world's languages, in the few that I'm fluent in, one can say something like "bad marks", "poor evaluations", and even "mediocre reviews" and it will mean exactly what it means in this headline, and not that there's something wrong with the reviews.