Slashdot Mirror


Newegg Defies New York Sales Tax Law

JagsLive informs us that the electronics retailer Newegg.com is defying New York lawmakers; it has suddenly stopped collecting sales tax from New York online shoppers. The "Amazon tax," which went into effect June 1, requires online merchants to collect sales tax if they have any affiliates in the state. Amazon is complying but has sued the state on constitutional grounds. Overstock.com dropped all of its New York affiliates and then joined the Amazon lawsuit. Newegg started out complying with the law on June 1, but stopped collecting taxes for New York on August 21. From Newegg's letter to its customers: "After careful review and consideration, we are pleased to inform you that we have stopped collecting New York sales tax, effective August 21, 2008," reads an email the company tossed at customers late last week, including at least one loyal Reg reader. "This decision was driven by your direct and candid feedback and our continued commitment to you as our valued customers."

19 of 635 comments (clear)

  1. I'll admit, I'm a bit confused by metamechanical · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Could someone explain, isn't it required by (most) states' laws that individuals pay sales tax on goods purchased? I mean, people like "neglecting" to pay it, because it's easy to avoid, but ideally doesn't the New York law just shift the burden from the taxpayer at tax time to the retailer at time of purchase?

    I guess what I'm asking is: is this whole problem arising from the retailers' desire not to be burdened with the logistics of collecting tax, and the consumers' desire to evade the tax? Or is there something else I'm missing here?

    --
    If I had a nickel for every time I had a nickel, I'd be richcursive!
    1. Re:I'll admit, I'm a bit confused by Chaos+Incarnate · · Score: 5, Informative

      It is required, in theory, but the Interstate Commerce clause of the Constitution prevents them from collecting tax on any sales across state boundaries.

      They still try to do so, generally under the guise of a "use tax" that's conveniently only applied to purchases from out-of-state, but as far as I'm aware such unequal taxes have never been tested in court. IANAL, of course.

      --
      Benford's Corollary to Clarke's Law: "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
    2. Re:I'll admit, I'm a bit confused by CXI · · Score: 5, Informative

      Basically states claim that if a retailer has a physical presence in the state they must collect sales tax. If they do not have a physical presence they do (or did not) have to collect the tax although technically the individual doing the purchasing was supposed to have sent the tax themselves to their own state. That's called "use tax" and is starting to become something more states are getting picky about collecting. Here's a longer explanation: http://articles.bplans.com/index.php/business-articles/running-an-online-business/tax-on-internet-sales/

    3. Re:I'll admit, I'm a bit confused by LordKronos · · Score: 5, Interesting

      No, that's exactly it. It save newegg the effort, and also increases their business from customers who intend to avoid paying the tax themselves.

      It will even increase business from customers who DO intend to pay what they owe for 2 reasons:

      1) Something you will owe later doesn't FEEL as costly to many people as something you have to pay now.

      2) Many states (I'm not a new yorker, so I don't know if this applies to them) understand the difficulty in tracking your sales, and offer a flat tax option. If you intend to pay this way, then it's sort of like an all you can eat buffet. Once you've paid the flat rate, it's in your best interest to find as many retailers as you can that don't collect tax.

    4. Re:I'll admit, I'm a bit confused by stinerman · · Score: 5, Informative

      An outside observer might wonder why this is such a big deal since the tax is going to be paid as use tax rather than sales tax. The difference here is that sales tax is charge at the point of sale while the use tax is charged on state tax returns.

      Use tax is notoriously hard to enforce because the state necessarily doesn't know about any items you bought in a different state. Many people lie about their use tax liability on their state tax returns because the state usually doesn't have any evidence to the contrary.

    5. Re:I'll admit, I'm a bit confused by Rocketship+Underpant · · Score: 5, Informative

      It doesn't matter how they feel. New York State can't tax a purchase made in Texas (or wherever Amazon is located) any more than they can tax a purchase made in Mongolia. Moreover, they can't impose taxes on New York citizens importing goods from other states, because the Constitution and its commerce clause forbid that.

      --
      He who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.
    6. Re:I'll admit, I'm a bit confused by cciardi · · Score: 5, Informative

      NewEgg put the onus on the NY taxpayer. On a NYS Income tax return form you're supposed to report the amount of any items you bought out of NYS which you didn't pay sales tax on. And you're supposed to then add the sales tax based on that line. Dont yell at me, just letting you know that its the NYS taxpayers responsibility.

    7. Re:I'll admit, I'm a bit confused by plague3106 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Right.. but the Use tax applies to citizens within a state buy something from out of state. Of course I don't understand how that survived any Interstate commerce challenges. It seems to be that while indirect, it's still affecting Interstate commerce.

    8. Re:I'll admit, I'm a bit confused by Ken+D · · Score: 5, Informative

      You're omitting the difficulty in figuring out the tax status of items.

      For example, in MA if you buy 1,2 or 3 donuts, that's taxable. If you buy a dozen donuts, that's not taxable. Why? One is consider "a meal", and one is considered "food" (i.e. groceries). Snacks over $3.50, taxable. Under $3.50, not taxable. Some clothing is taxable, some is not. Books are taxable, Textbooks are not. What makes a textbook a textbook? Retailers have fancy computer programs to figure out the tax status of each item, and even they get it wrong. The MA DOR recommends that you call or write for specific determinations "Because of the complexity of the law". http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=dorterminal&L=6&L0=Home&L1=Individuals+and+Families&L2=Personal+Income+Tax&L3=Forms+%26+Publications&L4=Publications&L5=Publications+Index&sid=Ador&b=terminalcontent&f=dor_publ_sales_use&csid=Ador#exempt

    9. Re:I'll admit, I'm a bit confused by Chaos+Incarnate · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Are you taxing the sale, or are you taxing the use?

      If you're taxing the sale, then you're interfering with interstate commerce.

      If you're taxing the use, then you're discriminating in favor of goods sold in state, because they aren't being taxed for use as well.

      --
      Benford's Corollary to Clarke's Law: "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
  2. The Register copy and paste? by two_stripe · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Interesting to see that part of the article summary is a direct copy and paste from theregister.co.uk and not a link back to the original article?

    "After careful review and consideration, we are pleased to inform you that we have stopped collecting New York sales tax, effective August 21, 2008," reads an email the company tossed at customers late last week, including at least one loyal Reg reader. "This decision was driven by your direct and candid feedback and our continued commitment to you as our valued customers."

    1. Re:The Register copy and paste? by ojintoad · · Score: 5, Funny

      How can I say you must be new here when your uid is lower than mine by more than half a million?

  3. Dear IRS, by Rie+Beam · · Score: 5, Funny

    After careful review and consideration, we are pleased to inform you that I have decided to stop paying my Federal and State tax, effective August 27, 2008.

    This decision was driven by your direct and candid feedback and our continued commitment to you as our valued collection agency.

  4. NY taxes by theflakes · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I live in upstate NY as well and I see the tremendous issues NY has with attracting good paying jobs. NY is unable to attract new business' therefore they look to supplement their revenue by taxing the business' they can't attract here even if said business has no physical presence in the state. NY government has this view that they are entitled to a piece of the action. They are not. If they can't attract the business here they lose and should lose. The NY government is what is getting in the way of business' coming into NY and entrepreneurs starting new business'. I'm afraid you will see more of what Overstock did and thus hurt the NY economy even more. We in NY have politicians completely out of touch with the reality of the business world.

    I find it amazing that when a government raises taxes they think the rich will pay it. The rich will just raise the cost of the goods they are selling accordingly in most cases.

  5. Correction To the Email by ghetto2ivy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Correction : After careful consideration of how much how much our sales have dropped since the Amazon Tax, we have decided to stop collecting NYS taxes.

  6. Why both candidates are retards. by tjstork · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I do not think that word means what you think it means. In the context of taxes, it's not a meaningless epithet; the sales tax is not progressive, it is flat

    Actually the sales tax is regressive.. but that's another story. I was really thinking more about how income taxes tend to be shifted to the rich. What happens now is that, because the taxes are stacked so much on the wealthy, the revenue stream for the government is wildly unstable.

    The thing is, about Republican politics, is that, they haven't honestly told the whole story about how taxation is supposed to work. Really, to get the lowest overall rate, everyone has to pay -some- taxes. But what's happened over the years is that this has been translated into the idea of tax cuts and for the wealthy to get tax cuts, thus, the middle class has to get them, and right now, poor people aren't paying any taxes at all.

    If you really wanted to maximize both the size and the stability of the tax stream against all other goals - in other words, without being "nice about it", you should probably have a federal sales tax to tax the poor and criminal classes and enough of one to also be an effective tax increase on the middle class, and then lower the tax rates on the rich so that effectively, everyone is paying the same overall rate. That minimizes the risk to the tax collection portfolio.. oh christ, there I go using that "revenue" term that i just flamed about, by spreading it to the most people.

    Then, if taxes are too high for people, then you cut them, but you also have to decide what out of government you don't want. Realistically, at the federal level, this is going to mean BOTH a capping of the entitlements AND a cut to the size of the defense budget.

    In the face of that, when you look at the candidates, you can see that both are pretty much retarded. Obama wants to raise taxes on the rich and then tease with a middle class tax cut and take the poor off the roles altogether, completely destabalizing the payment stream. McCain wants to lock in Bush's taxes, which is ok, but he also needs to think about a national sales tax, to hit the poor with. Both sides need to chop spending. In Obama's case, that means saying by by to his big social programs, and in McCain's case, it means that the army shouldn't get Future Combat System and the Navy might need just build more normal ships, and the air force might need to choose one kind of fighter rather than two.

    --
    This is my sig.
  7. Welfare States by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Actually, the "lazies" you're talking about are the "Red States", which all get more money back from the Federal government than they send it in Federal taxes. The "Blue States" like New York pay to prop up those Welfare States by sending more taxes to DC than we get back.

    There are a few notable exceptions. New Mexico is the poorest state, with the most tribal population, and lots of large Federal military bases and labs, so its welfare goes mainly to big Federal contractors who don't spread it around the state much. Hawaii is another state with a lot of poor people, many of them tribal, and lots of large Federal military bases. Maine gets a little more than it pays, but again is overall pretty poor. Texas, that "Republican Paradise", is taxed and feeladen every which way, in a giant ripoff, getting just a little less than it pays. Florida is right near the breakeven, but at least it's paying to prop up a system it was #1 in ushering in with its 2000 election. New Hampshire somehow gets screwed, too.

    But other than that, the other 44 states all demonstrate that voting Democratic does get you taxed to redistribute your wealth to the rest of the country - even when the redistributors are a Republican controlled Federal government. The list also demonstrates the myth that "the West is independent": other than NM and TX, all those Western states are subsidized by the rest of the country, as they have been since they were colonized.

    That list represents the most valuable wealth redistribution programme ever undertaken. Run by Republicans, at the peak of their power. Even as those Republicans cut Federal taxes while running up the Federal expenses, both in record amounts. But evidently spreading the benefits along more or less strict Party lines.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:Welfare States by infosinger · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Very puzzling--so if Blue states end up being the losers on this deal why do they want to send even more money to Washington, D.C. Seems to me if I am getting less than what I am sending, I should send less. Something is missing here -- not sure what, though.

    2. Re:Welfare States by superdave80 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Uh, according to you own link, there are several states in the West that pay more than they receive. California ($0.78), Washington ($0.88), Oregon ($0.93). In fact, California subsidizes at a higher rate than New York ($0.79). So, yeah, we are pretty independent.

      "Maine gets a little more than it pays"

      Maine gets a shitload more than it pays ($1.41). Do you even read your own link before you post?