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How HP Could Turn a Novelty Into a Revolution
RobotsDinner writes "HP's TouchSmart desktop is cool, but a blogger suggests it could be the beginning of a revolution if HP were to finally make the move of ditching Windows and building a Linux distro around the TouchSmart UI. 'Hello, HP. The UI of your latest TouchSmart computer says something about you. You may not have recognized your own weaving-in of meaning, but it comes across quite clearly if one reads just right: You want out. You want to escape the world of Windows to which Microsoft has sequestered you for the better part of two decades. Ah, but you can. No longer does Bill Gates stand guard outside your cell ... It's time to ditch Windows and build a Linux distro around the TouchSmart UI ... Your captivity of innovation under Microsoft is over. You're free. Free to invent, as you might put it.'"
A pure Linux fanboy wrote that blog post that made its way to Slashdot's homepage. He just wants HP to put Linux on the hot new product, when really this is a Windows Tablet with a few new cool apps writen for it.
Not sure how this qualifies as Slashdot frontpage worthy. Sure its a neat UI that hides much of the visable portions of windows, but its still windows, with all the good (app. compatibility) and bad (M$) that it brings with it. "Just" switch it to Linux is a hell of a lot harder than this rambling blogger makes it sound.
Thoughts on tech, Software Engineering, and stuff
It's hard enough to kick a nasty crack habit, especially when you have to worry about your dealer coming after you for a beat down.
HP (or any OEM) may not be able to piss off Microsoft, since a significant number of HP's customers demand MS. MS is known to get threatening with the licensing for companies the stray too far from the Microsoft ideal of exclusivity in the consumer market.
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
You can love your pc,
but just don't "love" your pc :P
A fanboi needs to remember to take his meds imho.
...
From personally using/selling this computer for about a month, I can say it is nothing more than a gimmick. It's nothing more than a glorified tablet with a glossy screen. If HP were serious about trying to revolutionize an industry, chances are, they'd have to partner with Apple to use their patents. As it is now, the screen is uncomfortable, buggy, and horrifically unprecise. Plus, the computer itself is nothing special, being built on the same platform as their DV5 series of laptops. The processor is just a Core2 Duo T5750 which barely clocks at 2.0ghz. They try to make up for the mediocre processor with 4gb of 333mhz DDR2, and fail. The screen has no multi-touch capability, so using an on-screen keyboard is a pain because response time shows as much latency as someone trying to play WoW on a 28.8kbps dial-up connection. HP will never turn novelty into a revolution. These companies do nothing more than market the norm with a little more glitz, and unfortunately, the age of the keyboard and mouse is not yet over. Give me a capacitive multi-touch screen with haptic feedback that runs linux with Enlightenment or one of the other eyecandy desktop environments on a low profile desktop form factor, then we'll see if touch screens are the way of the future.
I'm a huge fan of Linux like a lot of the other people here, but I don't see this happening. Linux has made huge strides to make media work out of the box, but the average user is still either too stupid or lazy to want to install proprietary codecs (for the distros that don't automatically) or not be able to use certain media (CNN streaming videos are Windows only, AFIAK, I'm sure there are plenty of other good examples).
Most of the issues are now with third parties not releasing specs for drivers or with proprietary codecs, but the end user doesn't care about that. They want to click play and see something shiny, not go to an error page and try to manually install something. Granted a big company like HP can choose hardware carefully or write their own drivers, but they can't fix all the bells and whistles that users want.
Until there is enough momentum to force Linux compatibility with third party software, HP won't be jumping to Linux only. That's a fanboy pipedream. The best we can hope for is that they continue to make Linux boxes. Hopefully they'll be profitable and that will increase the market share. If HP goes Linux only it won't be to stick it to Microsoft. It will be to make the most money they can. Microsoft did a good job of standardizing software and adding Linux boxes will mean a lot of secondary support overhead. I hope they rapidly continue down that path, But expecting to get there overnight is simply ludicrous.
lol: You see no door there!
Free to pay $50 for 2 ounces of ink is more like it.
Not completely sure about this, but i think the biggest problem with the windows is actually the own windows users.
They re not exactly OS experts, but they kinda command microsoft with their money, and so far they didnt quite guided it well.
I imagine what will happen when this userbase starts to commmand linux too.
You know, there are plenty of really good blogs out there but if we're going to continue to see more and more blog posts represented as legitimate news articles can we please flag them in some way so I can just chose to ignore them?
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
Is it my imagination, or has everyone gone crazy with flash, and now ever web page has to have some element of it that causes your speakers to make embarassing sounds at work? Why can't websites like HP's, which you figure people will look at AT WORK, friggin' WARN people that it's going to start playing music, or give your opportunity to MUTE *before* the msuic starts playing?
If this keeps up, I'm either going to stop surfing the web entirely, or, pull my speakers out. Unfortunately, these days some machines come with internal speakers (like the iMac), so if you disconnect the external speakers you activate the internal. Guess the volume controls are there onthe computer for a reason but still, when I'm on the web I'm there to read.
If I want to watch "TV", I'll turn on the goddamned TV, thank you.
Even Slashdot's front page has started having ads appear that make noise. Can't you just wait until something that's loaded with ads, like say 'Weather.com' starts having multiple ads playing sound simultaneously? Yeah, that'll be pleasant.
Never mind Web 2.0 -- I'm starting to look fondly on Web 0.2 -- text on a grey background.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
Speaking of places touchscreen would be useful, I'd love to have a touchscreen in my kitchen, maybe fold up under the cabinet and pop down when I want it. I could hook it up into my home network, maybe even have a wireless keyboard option. Or perhaps even have a keyboard built into the counter - looks like ordinary counter when the keyboard is off. Press a button to activate and a back light underneath the ceramic of the counter pops on and you can see the keyboard.
You may not have recognized your own weaving-in of meaning, but it comes across quite clearly if one reads just right: You want out. You want to escape the world of Windows to which Microsoft has sequestered you for the better part of two decades. Ah, but you can. No longer does Bill Gates stand guard outside your cell...
What in the world makes you think that HP so desperately wants to break from MS? This is an enormous assumption. This is the assumption that just about every "year of Linux" article on Slashdot depends on and the blaring truth is that most people don't want to see MS fail. Most people don't see Gates as the evil borg. Most people don't give a damn about the bullshit OS wars. There are an extremely small number of people who have this anti-Microsoft hard on and even fewer who would be willing to buy a product just because Linux is stamped on it. HP knows this. There's a good reason they're making billions as we sit, blog and bicker about technology.
And I have a hard time taking someone seriously who acts like Bill Gates is the reason that companies offered up Windows or stayed loyal to MS. What kind of oddball reasoning could make someone make that jump in logic?
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
Now that I've established my street cred for you young whippersnappers, let me tell you how it is:
I'm sure you've noticed how there's nothing new coming out of Hollywood? Just the same old stories, over and over again. They've even resorted to crappy old TV shows, trying to find a new angle. There are only so many ideas out there to build on, and in about 100 years, they've gone through them all at least once.
Same thing with video games: I used to repair arcade games, so I saw every game imaginable for 15 years. They too started repeating after a while, didn't they?
The same goes for Operating Systems. There's only so many ways you can engineer a user interface, because Humans are as finite as everything else in this godforsaken Universe we live in -- and what's worse, we're just slightly smarter animals than the rest of the meat on this planet. That's one of the main reasons that Windows has been so succesful (aside from marketing skills): It caters to some of the lowest common denominators of humanity, and it does it well.
I will assign MacOS as being the second place OS, and all flavors of *NIX as third place. But there is a common thread between all of them, now isn't there? It's just like Hollywood, or video games, or novels for that matter: There are only so many ways you can do a specific thing, and after a while the themes just repeat. At their most basic, all GUIs are basically the same, aren't they? There are specific details that are different, and I'm not taking technical issues like stability into account (because the average end-user doesn't give a damn about that until something goes wrong). In the final analysis, you have icons, you have a desktop, and you have a pointing device and you click on things with it. The rest is all window-dressing (excuse the poor, unintentional pun).
So: Don't be bringin' your "revolutionary OS" talk around here, laddy-buck. Now be a good boy, and get off my lawn, K?
Anybody else find it amusing that those who take Linux seriously to the point of delusion (often caught posting these idealistic "head-in-the-clouds" diatribes) have become the slashdot equivalent of hippies?
I record my sleeptalking
If only it were possible to replace the dull windows like desktop:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_shell_replacement
And just imagine if GTK and QT worked on Windows! Or if somebody wrote and maintained a POSIX compatibility layer.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I'm not trolling at all when I say this anonymous blogger has absolutely no idea what's involved with software development. Anyone familiar with the underlying technologies (.NET, WPF, and the Tablet API) knows that the TouchSmart UI code makes up 1% of the GIGANTIC software stack required to make it possible. Running away from windows? I'd say they're doing exactly the opposite.
This brings me to my second point: this person also has no sense of history--Windows OEMs have been doing shell replacement since DOS. Remember Geoworks? I'll bet the Compaq half of HP remembers Tabworks. They used it as their Windows shell from 3.1 all the way through their first year of Windows 95 (I supported in 1995 as a Compaq employee). TouchSmart is way more capable than any previous shell replacement, but what this blogger doesn't understand is that he has endless Windows APIs to thank for that.
This fanboy wants HP to attempt to write *more* software?
He obviously hasn't ever used an HP interface for scanners, printers, fax machines, or just any other 250 MB download just to send something to a printer.
Besides, most of the magic on this device is Vista running in Tablet mode, with a few little skins that HP threw together in their typical half-ass fashion. If I got one of these devices, I'd likely format it and just let Vista Ultimate do its thing, running in Media Center mode with a few nifty add-in gadgets.
-David
As someone somehow related with the HP MFP development process, I will say that HP is putting more devices on Windows, from setups that were previously HP-UX based. As seen in the Edgeline series of MFPs (really, starting there), HP includes a copy of Windows CE with the firmware. The interface is larger than on other MFPs, but it was designed to mimic the HP-UX setup, which was still perfectly functional, and could have been expanded to the larger screen. HP has ceased development on several products because they aren't using Windows CE now.
All this is to say, I don't think HP is trying to get away from Microsoft. Microsoft is a large partner and client for HP, and while HP will work on Linux systems as a means of being fairly diverse (but I fear some of managements short sighted ness is stifling/removing some diversity), they do still really like Microsoft, and are using .net C# extensively on the Imaging side of the Business.
Posted Anonymously because of some NDA papers that I don't think fully apply, but it can't hurt to be safe.
Your sarcasm just demonstrates your ignorance: none of the hacks you mention even come close, either in functionality or design, to the modularity of Linux.
(Mentioning the "POSIX compatibility layer" in Windows is particularly ironic, given that it works like shit.)
Yeah, that was true with the kind of bulky, heavy tech they had then, mounted with the screen straight up and down. I hear no such complaints from users of Wacoms, including the Cintiqs that are also screens. The key issues are that the pen needs to be very light and the screen should be mounted at the angle a drafting table would be, about thirty degrees from horizontal.
Also, frankly, most a y'all were never taught how to hold a pen properly. Those of us who took drafting classes back in the pen and ink days were taught to hold a pen in the ways that make it practical to work hour after hour, decade after decade, just as draftsmen, illustrators, and engineers had for generations.
It's all about the information. And what we do with it.
Don't know what you mean by "gorilla arm syndrome" but using a stylus handles the first two concerns just fine.
It's all about the information. And what we do with it.
I have pretty much same experience. I actually used linux for desktop few years back. And windows now just blows linux away in pretty much every aspect - even performance and stability. Yes, my X crashed way more times than winXP did - and even those crashes were due to overcloking and overheating. X just hanged and the only thing i could do was ctrl-alt-backspace.
My latest experience with linux at my job... fedora core. We run few vmware clients on that computer and i was trying to reconfigure network card. I could navigate through menus and select configuration, but nothing happened. Tried to open console to see what's going on... nothing happened. After few minutes of scratching my head, all the windows opened. I got absolutelly no indication that system was so clogged up. At least in windows you get little 'wait' icon and taskmanager opens always. I got so annoyed i actually suggested using win2k8 with hyper-v in future.
we all have our examples, I have been using computers since 1984, dos, win3, 95 etc etc.
In 2000 I jumped to Linux and initially it was difficult, but I enjoyed it and it was a great learning experience.
For the last few years I find Linux totally usable and have no issues at all, stability and performance is second to none.
I am not spouting here, just noting we all have different experiences and expectations, why do we attract so many fanboys here (from all different camps)
The iPhone UI was designed from the ground up as a touch interface, maximizing the use of space and screen real estate in a portable device. All of the applications it uses were redesigned to take advantage of that interface. With that in mind, just what, exactly, is a Linux-based touch-screen desktop computer going to do? What is it going to do differently? More importantly, just how is it going to do it BETTER?
The disadvantage to the HP is that they've come up with a half-hearted interface with a few applets that lets you manipulate a few things via touch, then drops you back into Windows for everything else. And Windows, for the most part, has no clue the touch screen system exists. Yes, you can still "click" the screen, but all of the teensy-tiny widgets in Windows are designed for skinny, precise mouse pointers and not for fat, dull fingers.
So again, what would Linux do differently? And who's going to rewrite all of those applications to take advantage of the hardware?
Speaking of which, from what I gather the screen uses a "smart" border and not capacitance, so it only recognizes single finger presses and not multi-touch gestures. No pinches, no two finger Jeff Han rotations and zooms. Touch-wise, it's speaking at a kindergarten level. With all of that in mind, and given the limitations of the hardware, I fail to see just how revolutionary the device could be, even if you managed to convince the Linux developer community to to support it.
And without groundbreaking applications to pique a user's imagination, the concept that this computer could "promote" Linux is..., well... totally out of touch with reality.
Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
I was trying to install Windows and got a LOT of weird error messages and I gave up. To me Windows is clearly not ready for the desktop.
The fact that you use a GUI to open a console instead of doing an ssh also speaks for itself. Yes, perhaps your X had crashed, but that should not mean that you can't do anything else. ssh to it, su to it and do whatever you intended to do before.
On my machine I would just launch `yast` and do the configuration over CLI, while it still resembles what I know how it looks in GUI.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
In *your* experience windows blows Linux away, in mine, its all the opposite. The OS is there to make your life easier, not to 'compete', Linux solves more problems for me than any other OS could, and that's a fact. I believe that most unsuccessful experiences with *NIX are because people are not willing to adopt a different workflow. Everyone expects Linux to act as 'whatever they used before' and that's the problem right there: If you're not willing to change by a slightly bit your method to do things, why are you changing your OS in the first place? Resistance to change is a studied phenomena that plays a major role in UI design, new features in OS's etc.
Actually, it is that Linux is not ready for most people.
Linux on the desktop is good for exactly 3 types of users:
For everyone else, people who want to use off-the-shelf software such as MS Office, Photoshop, Quicken, and the latest games, Linux is the wrong choice.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.