Best Buy + Windows Guru = Apple Store Experience?

CWmike writes "As part of Windows Vista's $300 million marketing rehab, Microsoft will hire an initial wave of 155 'Windows Gurus' to walk around Best Buy and Circuit City stores to answer customer questions and defend Vista's reputation against skeptics, reports say. Gurus will earn $20 an hour or more, plus benefits. (Apply here.) One way Windows Gurus will differ from Apple Geniuses is that they are not intended to be sources of free technical support for existing Vista users. 'The Guru role is to help sell Windows-based PCs. It is not to be an alternative tech support channel for Microsoft as this has no financial return beyond improved customer satisfaction,' Baker said. One reason: Windows Gurus could end up 'lightning rods for customers' frustrations with Vista.'"

Comments

Now we know who's been Bogarting the Sativa

[Anonymous Coward]

We'd... um... like to be like that company... that sells that O/S... that every one like... likes.

So we're going to send out these expensive sales people... to hype our product... but not stand behind it like the other guys do... because that would... be like work, man.

Re:Now we know who's been Bogarting the Sativa

[lysergic.acid]

ok, several things:

1. real stoners don't call weed 'Sativa', as Cannabis Sativa has a low ratio of THC to CBD and also lower levels of cannabinoids in general, thus they are generally only used for manufacturing hemp, not for recreational ingestion. brick weed is generally of these strains because Sativa is much hardy as a plant, and also produces higher yields.
2. pot smokers will, however, sometimes refer to weed as "Indo," as in Cannabis _Indica_, because it is the more potent subspecies and the one primarily cultivated as a drug source. strains referred to as Chronic are generally only bred from Indica strains, though they are sometimes cross-bred with Sativa, sacrificing potency for volume.
3. the attitude displayed here is one of shortsighted greed, plain and simple. they want to attract customers & increase sales, but once they've got your money they don't give a damn about you anymore. that is the attitude Microsoft is expressing. i don't know what that has to do with pothead stereotypes.

Re:Now we know who's been Bogarting the Sativa

[spun]

I did computer security for a medical marijuana club in San Francisco, and learned quite a bit about cannabis while there. While I agree that real stoners don't call weed 'Sativa,' I disagree about the reasons.

First, Sativa does not have a low THC to CBD ratio. If anything, the reverse is true. Sativa gives an up, chatty, let's go out and do something kind of high. Indica has been bred for centuries to have a high CBD to THC ratio, for pain relief. It gives a sink you into the couch, stoned out of your gourd kind of high.

Indica and Sativa plants grow differently, sativa has a tall, rangy habit while indica grows a single, fat, 'donkey dick' bud. Under ideal conditions, both strains can produce the same amount per square foot of indoor hydroponic space. Sativa does tend to produce more outdoors on a per plant basis, however, as it can grow to enormous size.

Almost all modern pot is a hybrid between those two strains, as most recreational users tend to prefer the high from sativa, while indoor growers prefer the compact habit of indica. You can actually talk coherently on a sativa high, while medical users tend to prefer indica for its pain relief and appetite stimulating effects.

The strains bred for hemp production are generally sativa type, but these strains have very little THC at all. Modern high grade pure sativa strains generally top out around 20% THC, while indica strains can achieve 30%, and most crosses, when grown under perfect indoor hydroponic conditions, achieve 20-25%. By comparison, brick weed has about 2-5%.

As for the on-topic part of your post, I completely agree. :)

Re:Now we know who's been Bogarting the Sativa

[Saint Stephen]

Dude, you know way too much about weed :-)

Re:Now we know who's been Bogarting the Sativa

[spun]

Well, I could be wrong about the percentages, and maximum THC percentage certainly depends on the growing method as well. This was in 2000-2002, and I'm not in that business anymore. I think the 30% was quoted for some of the new Dutch strains.

I wasn't aware of a pocket in the trichome, but I do know that various strains produce different size and densities of trichomes. The better strains are nearly covered in trichomes, all of them huge fat globs on the ends of the hairs.

I know that the trichomes themselves contain much higher than 30% THC. Water hash, which is mostly compressed trichomes, has higher than 30% THC content, so the trichomes themselves must have more than that. I always thought the percentage figures included leaf matter and stems, so not only growing methods, but trimming methods can make a difference.

THC production also depends on timing. Make sure to harvest just after the trichomes turn amber. Past that point, the THC starts to break down into other compounds. Before that point, production hasn't peaked.

Anyone named Bruno instantly hired

[bigtallmofo]

FTA: The good thing is that Microsoft will be able to get Windows explained appropriately on the sales floor.

Oh my God, does this sound ominous. Any Best Buy employee explaining Windows "inappropriately" will be taken out back by a Windows Guru and "evangelized".

Re:Anyone named Bruno instantly hired

[BitterOldGUy]

FTA: The good thing is that Microsoft will be able to get Windows explained appropriately on the sales floor. Oh my God, does this sound ominous. Any Best Buy employee explaining Windows "inappropriately" will be taken out back by a Windows Guru and "evangelized".

It's Windows we're talking about here; not OSX.

Re:Anyone named Bruno instantly hired

[Just Some Guy]

Any Best Buy employee explaining Windows "inappropriately" will be taken out back by a Windows Guru and "evangelized".

"This sucks - avoid it" is appropriate, although perhaps not what they intended.

Re:Anyone named Bruno instantly hired

[Stanistani]

As a newly hired Windows guru, I pledge to teach breathing exercises, tantric meditation, and contemplation of your inner penguin.

Re:Anyone named Bruno instantly hired

[orclevegam]

FTA: The good thing is that Microsoft will be able to get Windows explained appropriately on the sales floor. Oh my God, does this sound ominous. Any Best Buy employee explaining Windows "inappropriately" will be taken out back by a Windows Guru and "evangelized".

It's Windows we're talking about here; not OSX.

Precisely, if it was OS X it would be the customers taking the employee outback, not the company rep.

Re:Anyone named Bruno instantly hired

[Ethanol-fueled]

That's why they're paid 20 bucks an hour!
Slashdotters - give 'em hell. Here are a few questions to ask:

"Where can I get that Linux thing that everybody's talking about?"

"What's the point of those stupid commercials we keep seeing? It's like Bill Gates has money and likes to mock us."

"Do windows PCs suck as much as the Mac ads say they do? I want to be cool, not old and dumb."

"Why did Windows Vista fuck my wife? I heard it also eats babies and starts wars with defenseless countries."

Re:Anyone named Bruno instantly hired

[Amazing Quantum Man]

OK, so they'll either:

1. Have a chair thrown at them
2. Have their F***ING air supply cut off!

Re:Anyone named Bruno instantly hired

[ByOhTek]

what bothers me even more:

> The Guru role is to help sell Windows-based PCs.
? It is not to be an alternative tech support
> channel for Microsoft as this has no financial
> return beyond improved customer satisfaction,'

So, let me get this straight. They are trying to improve customer satisfaction by telling everyone how great it is, but not provide help to get it to do what they want.

Funny. That's /exactly/ my experience with Linux evangelizers, and the primary reason I don't use Linux.

Re:Anyone named Bruno instantly hired

[PenguSven]

That's why they're paid 20 bucks an hour!

Um.. are you under some delusion that $20/hr is a LOT?

Re:Anyone named Bruno instantly hired

[PitaBred]

In many areas of the country, it IS a lot for the type of job they're doing, especially since it almost certainly doesn't require a serious education. It's not exactly a "highly skilled" profession, it's just sales. A kid with a high-school diploma and some interest can do it.

Re:Anyone named Bruno instantly hired

[surferx0]

what would be good is if everyone that uses Linux would go to BestBuy and look at Windows Vista PCs and mention that they prefer Linux just to get the idea/word across that they are not interested in Vista...

Who exactly would you be getting the word out to? I work for one of these companies and it's hilarious when idiots walk in and start ranting about random BS to me thinking I am somehow responsible for the production and engineering decisions of the products we sell or that I have anything to do with the company policies and purchasing decisions.

Look, we're mostly college students just there doing a mindless job to make a paycheck at the end of the week. We don't care that you have some love affair with Linux and that you think computers should come with it instead of Vista, do you want me to go get the laptop out of the lock-up cage or not is all I give a crap about.

Re:Anyone named Bruno instantly hired

[Anonymous Coward]

"Why did Windows Vista fuck my wife? I heard it also eats babies and starts wars with defenseless countries."

Two of those are bugs, the other is a feature. Which ones are which is left as an exercise for the reader.

Re:Anyone named Bruno instantly hired

[mpoulton]

"This sucks - avoid it" is appropriate, although perhaps not what they intended.

About a month ago, I had a Best Buy salesman tell me just that! Looking at new laptops, I commented that they all ran Vista and I considered that a problem. He proceeded to tell me that Vista is so bad that not a single one of their laptops runs well with it, and I should probably not buy one at all! He went on to say that I should hold out until Windows 7 comes out, if I can, because Vista is so bad that Microsoft will never fix it.

I couldn't believe I was hearing this from a BB sales drone. I'm not kidding. I wonder if he was an early pioneer of this "Windows Guru" program?

Re:Anyone named Bruno instantly hired

[RiotingPacifist]

with linux i find that support often takes a while (especially IRC) but aslong as im friendly ive only had 1 problem (some idiot insiting everything was flash's fault) hell yesterday i actually got help from the developer of my webcam driver. the key is not to pretend that linux owes you something.

Guru? Not really ...

[bestinshow]

Only people in marketing could come up with the term "guru" to mean "someone who can't help, and exists to market to you until you give in".

And Microsoft misses one of the myriad small points in why Apple is seen positively by so many people despite having software release management run by a Crurotarsan.

Re:Guru? Not really ...

[ColdWetDog]

Only people in marketing could come up with the term "guru" to mean "someone who can't help, and exists to market to you until you give in".

OK guys, let's help:

Windows Warriors?
Vista Vultures?
Ballmer's Boys?
Hardy Heron?

Re:Guru? Not really ...

[Spazztastic]

But... but... $20 extra an hour?! That'll certainly pull in a few MCPs! Come on!

Re:Guru? Not really ...

[JustinOpinion]

Indeed. These "gurus" are just marketers under a different name. Of course, the intention is to deceive the customer into thinking they are getting impartial technical advice, when in fact they are getting a sales pitch. Some quotes from TFA show that people are already fooled:

"After years of monopolistic behavior, Microsoft is finally recognizing the need for the softer things, dealing with customers in a higher-touch way," said Lisa Bradner, an analyst at Forrester Research Inc. "All of our research shows that customers want their hands held. They're tired of being dumped to a Web site where they have to look through some FAQs."

Yet the article points out that the purpose of the gurus is NOT to hand-hold with respect to fixing problems, or even selecting the most appropriate product. Rather, it is to convince the customer to buy a Vista computer. This isn't a "softer" approach: it is another avenue for them to continue their usual (monopolistic?) tactics.

I worry about this because most in-store customers will assume that the "gurus" are providing sound technical advice, but instead they are just trying to get them to buy something. The same could be said of the other store employees, I suppose; but in this case instead of steering the customer towards buying *something*, they will invariably steer the customer towards Vista. Regardless of whether or not it is the right choice for them.

I can see this causing headaches for the stores as well. When a customer seeks out an employee for help, they are typically not aware of the distinction between different departments. Customers may become frustrated when they ask a "guru" for help but said employee can't help them ("I'm looking for a new washer/dryer." "Have you considered this Windows Vista Home Media Center desktop computer?" "WTF?")

Re:Guru? Not really ...

[Bryansix]

That's really dumb. Yes, the cert by itself doesn't mean much. But if this MSCE had 4 years system admin experience and just as many years Desktop support they they are damn well worth more then minimum wage. I'd start them around $15-18 an hour.

Re:Guru? Not really ...

[RobertM1968]

What I think will be interesting is when the rest of Best Buy's "less paid but do more work" employees get fed up with the fact that there are staff on hand who make $5-12/hr more for simply being able to lie.

Think about it.... be a member of the "Geek Squad" and actually be the person stuck dealing with Vista and other issues, and actually be responsible for fixing problems, and you get paid less. Run around all day convincing people that Vista is great, do nothing to alleviate customer issues (other than point them to the less paid "Geek Squad" members) and get paid significantly more.

I think this is a wonderful way at raising employee moral. I wonder how much money Best Buy is getting handed from Microsoft to make this happen - or if they (Best Buy) are just too brain dead to realize it's going to piss off the rest of their less paid/do more (or real) work staff - or if this is a "requirement" that Microsoft stipulated for some future or continuing concession for carrying certain products.

No Return Beyond Customer Satisfaction???

[NeverVotedBush]

So existing customer satisfaction isn't important to Microsoft? Who would have ever thought that?

Well, knock me over with a feather! ;-)

Cue the villagers

[$RANDOMLUSER]

...Windows Gurus could end up 'lightning rods for customers' frustrations with Vista.'"

More like villagers with torches and pitchforks.

Re:Cue the villagers

[oiron]

That's Poseidon. He's different.

'lightning rods' for customer frustrations

[darth_MALL]

So does the $20/hr include danger pay?

Re:'lightning rods' for customer frustrations

[BasilBrush]

Do people actually get out of bed for $20 an hour? $20 an hour, and a target painted on your back as a Microsoft rep who's supposed know everything about Windows, but won't help you out with your crappy windows computer that you bought last month.

Worst job ever.

Re:'lightning rods' for customer frustrations

[CaptainPatent]

So does the $20/hr include danger pay?

Danger pay is covered, but they don't reimburse you for the cost of your soul unfortunately.

Re:'lightning rods' for customer frustrations

[Hyppy]

Do people actually get out of bed for $20 an hour?

The median household income per resident in the U.S. is $26,036, which works out about $12.50 per hour per person for a 40 hour week.

Re:'lightning rods' for customer frustrations

[SatanicPuppy]

41,000 a year for a job with a low entry skill is "not bad"? Are you serious? It's 5k above the national average wage.

Re:'lightning rods' for customer frustrations

[sumdumass]

In high dollar places like NYC or Chicogo, you can expect a lot of that to be taken in absorbent taxes associated with and on everything you buy. And when what I would call a cracker box of an apartment in my neck of the woods goes for over $700 a month in NYC, you can easily see where it wouldn't be enough.

Think about this. $8,400 a year for rent in a one room squallier, the subway if about $2.00 a ride as well as the bus, so if you have to take a subway and then catch a bus (because owning a car in NYC is expensive too with parking and all) your looking at spending around $8 a day, so 8 time 5 times 50 weeks is about $2,00 bringing living and working up to around $10,400 just to be in the city. Now this isn't even considering your electric bills, any travel outside of work or groceries or anything. And god forbid is you have to take a taxi, the last time I was in NYC, it costs me something like $45 to go halfway across town. Now part of that is the tolls I had to pay. Good thing I didn't have to go back that night or it would have bee $90 in one day.

Here is a report (PDF warning) from the NYC housing authority. In it, it contains the lines

Every year the National Low Income Housing Coalition (NLIHC) issues a study to determine
whether rents are affordable to the lowest wage earners. The 2007 study has not been released at the time of publication, but using the NLICHC's methodology,18 in order to afford a two-bedroom
apartment at the City's Fair Market Rent ($1,318 a month19), as determined by the U.S. department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD), a full-time worker must earn $25.35 per hour, or $52,720 a year.

Alternately, those who earn minimum wage would have to work the equivalent of 142 hours a week (or two people residing together would each have to work 71 hours a week) to be able to afford a twobedroom unit priced at Fair Market Rent.

I could say that this is the costs of liberalism but I think we can all conclude that it has more to do with greed and population demand. The 52Gs a year supposedly includes normals costs like food, clothing, transportation and so on. Quite a surprise if you ask me who is from a smaller town in which the same apartment can be had for much less. I rent my 4 bedroom house out with .6 acres of fenced yard for $850 a month and I rent a 2 bedroom with about .75 acres bordering my land from a neighbor for $600 a month (because I live alone and it is easier to keep up). Both of us have twice the house, peace, and tranquility then the NYC apartment and we pay a faction of their costs.

Apply here?

[PotatoFarmer]

While the application link is a nice touch, for some reason I think Microsoft may be wary of anyone coming in with a slashdot referer.

Vista Sala

[Rie Beam]

Given the commercials, I think it would be more appropriate for them to wander around Foot Locker...

Um, Since When Did BB/CC sell non-windows?

[filesiteguy]

I'm not quite sure I understand the tactic here. Best Buy and Circuit City - last I remember - don't sell Macintosh PCs or Linux/UNIX PCs. Therefore, the person would be in the store to shop for PC's loaded with Windows.

Can I apply?? /me raises hand

Re:Um, Since When Did BB/CC sell non-windows?

[cowscows]

Best Buy has sold Macs for quite some time. The new-ish BB store not far from me has a small but reasonably nice Apple section.

Re:Um, Since When Did BB/CC sell non-windows?

[oahazmatt]

The store by me has a nice Apple section as well.

That being said, I go to the Apple Store that's a little further out of the way on some occasions. I usually get greeted and asked if I'm looking for anything specific. I'll say I'm just looking around, and they smile politely and let me browse.

Now, the "Genius" they have in the Best Buy Apple Section is more in line of the Windows Guru seems to be, a salesman. I walked into that section and she was absolutely relentless. She asked if I could help, I said I'm just looking. She asked what I was looking for, and I said I was just browsing various things I might need in the future. She asked what I do with the computer, and I told her I do some graphics and web design, and I was just checking out some NAS options. Then she starts pitching .Mac at me. I told her I didn't need .Mac for my projects, and I kept looking at the external drives and the Time Capsules. Then she started throwing iLife in my face. I told her that wasn't going to do what I need to do. I said I work with a lot of SQL DBs and write everything in PHP. She actually said "But you won't need to do that anymore with iLife". I asked her if she had been listening to a word I had said, or if she was just picking up keywords and throwing back responses she thought fit best.

Now I always go to the Apple Store when I need to buy things for my Mac. If the Windows Gurus will be anything like the Best Buy Mac Fanatics, they won't last long.

Guru meditation

[Spatial]

That's cool, but do they meditate?

Vista = Customer Satisfaction?

[psyque]

How could selling Vista machines possibly improve customer satisfaction?

Best Buy + Windows Guru = Apple Store Experience?

[greenguy]

I think I speak for us all when I say...

No.

Best Buy + Some Guy != Apple Store

[Foofoobar]

I use Apple and Linux at Home and Windows and Linux at work and I have to say that Apple (like Pixar) does a great job on polishing under the drawers; they don't do anything halfassed in the total experience. They control the product, the store and the whole experience for a reason... to make them look extremely polished and extremely in control.

Until Microsoft opens their own shops and controls their own hardware OEM, they can't quite duplicate the same experience that Apple has at their stores. They only thing they can do is create propoganda in a controlled environment. And Apple already has retail people and retail sections in Bestbuy locations so these MS people are going to have to compete on their turf; Apple people don't compete with anyone in their stores.

Re:Best Buy + Windows Guru = Apple Store Experienc

[DogDude]

It would be true if PC prices were tripled, and the whole interior of the store was white.

Some Questions To Ask

[Rie Beam]

"I'm really interested in Vista, but I can't afford it. Are there any cheaper alternatives?"

"Hey, can I still use X feature of Vista if I downgrade to XP? Why not?"

"Quick question -- when is the next operating system after Vista coming out? I'm really excited about that one. No, I don't know anything about it yet..."

"How does Vista compare to non-Windows operating systems?" (Open ended, should provide some laughs)

"If Vista is so good, why are you being $20/hour to stand around and tell me how good it is?"

Re:Some Questions To Ask

[jefu]

How do I get a refund if I refuse the Vista EULA on the computer and want to install something else?

Microsoft hireing salespeople to push Vista.

[LWATCDR]

Windows Vista Guru = salesperson.
Good grief Vista must suck.
Their adds where people try Vista and say gee this doesn't suck.
Their ads with with Gates and Sienfeld.
Until now I thought that Vista was just too much pain for not enough gain. I thought that maybe Windows 7 would be better.
Now I get the feeling that Vista is the Yugo of OSs. It must really suck if they are having to push this hard.
I was going to put Vista 64 on my wife's new PC. Now I am going to rethink that one.

So, propaganda then?

[gstoddart]

Not to be overly cynical, but this sounds like paying a bunch of people to walk around and try to convince the user that the experience won't suck, has never sucked, and that I'm merely deluded.

I mean, how much of it will be true, and how much of it will simply sound like a sales pitch from someone who drank the Kool Aid?

Man, shopping in most electronics stores is annoying enough -- having some git wandering around stumping for Windows Vista is just one more nuisance to avoid. If I'm standing there looking at a PC, and after I've shooed the salesman away, I don't want to then have to deal with some MS shill.

Hearing that they won't actually be useful sources of information for existing customers only re-affirms my cynicism about this program.

Cheers

Good luck with that

[Fishbulb]

they are not intended to be sources of free technical support for existing Vista users

Until the people they convinced to buy Vista come back to the store in a black fart of rage looking for blood or someone to kidnap until their machine works like it did before.

Good. Freaking. Luck.

Re:Good luck with that

[Just Some Guy]

Until the people they convinced to buy Vista come back to the store in a black fart of rage

Either you mistyped "fit" or you have some seriously unpleasant anger issues.

Not a chance

[FireStormZ]

The apple stores centers around 3 things

1) The Genius
2) An army of employees running around to help people
3) A non intimidating open and easy to navigate store

Everything they do hight lights those two things, because they can do your credit card purchase remotely they can spend more time helping people decide. They reserve so much of the store for their training sessions and demo units that the Apple store does not feel like a big box store. I don't have to work my was past cameras, dvd's, home appliances, and video games to get to the computers.

The apple gurus are *not* sales folks and I have had them send me other places rather than buy an over priced adapter (ironically they sent me to best buy) meanwhile the 'The (Microsoft) Guru role is to help sell Windows-based PCs'. Yea thats what MS need more sales pressure at best buy...

Re:Sales Experience

[91degrees]

So someone bought a piece of equipment, and expected it to last more than 5 months. You tell him that if he wants a printer to have such an epic lifetime he needs to stump up some extra cash, and use the weaselly "just doing my job" defence to avoid taking responsibility for your own actions.

I can see why he was upset.

Don't bother trying to solve problems...

[FranTaylor]

"as this has no financial return beyond improved customer satisfaction"

This just says it all about the entire Microsoft experience.

Who comes up with this crap?

[dave562]

What tool in Microsoft land decided to create a highly visible position that can't actually help people with the system? One of the most frequently asked questions directed toward me when I enter any retail establishment is, "How can I help you?" As consumers we are conditioned to expect that people who are employed at a store are there to help us. This is just a PR nightmare waiting to happen. I can see the PC vs Mac commercial already....

[Enter PC and Mac. Each of them has a friend.]

Mac, "Hey PC, who is your friend?"

PC, "This is my [Microsoft store tool]. She's here to tell everyone how great Vista is. I see you have a friend. What does he do?"

Mac, "This is my genius. He helps everyone USE their Apple and answers any technical questions that they may have. PC, does your friend answer technical questions? Does your friend do anything other than try to convince people to spend money on a product and then leave them out in the cold when they have questions about it? Huh? Does he? Or is he just another over paid, worthless, Microsoft marketing..."

PC, "Shut up Mac!"

Only 155?

[Capt James McCarthy]

I guess that's all they could find for a "Guru" willing to accept $20.00 per hour. Sorry, but if you use "expert," "genius," or "guru" in your title, you will not see $20.00 per hour.

Re:Sales Experience

[bestinshow]

I'd be livid if something I bought for $500 broke after only 5 months use, and if I then found out that because I was living in a country with barely any consumer rights I had no way to get this sorted out in a fair manner. I'd rip someone's guts out if they were in any way associated with that purchase.

You have a reasonable expectation at purchase that the goods will last a certain minimum amount of time. One year should be a legal minimum for home electronics purchases. Full stop. It would stop some companies releasing utter crap onto the market as well, and thus the situation would improve for everyone.

BSOD not enough?

[mikeboone]

I guess the BSOD was not enough? Now they want to have gurus too?

Re:Sales Experience

[Free the Cowards]

I don't understand your story. Why would you have to buy a warranty to cover a failure 5 months after purchase? Wouldn't the original manufacturer's warranty cover it?

Re:Sales Experience

[GreenEggsAndSpam]

People need to remember that you CAN be pissed off at a poorly performing / defective / overly expensive / ugly products. It's perfectly OK to be angry.

What is NOT acceptable, under any conditions, is to take it out on the person who sold it (unless of course they were responsible for the construction / repair / destruction / damage / defilement / or it being vista). Gas is an ass-rape, but it's NOT the fault of the pump-jockey earning minimum wage.

The printer broke, it's not this guy's fault. He tried to sell the store's standard extended warranty, which would have saved aggravation (bad timing on the breakage), and unless this guy pointed it out in an asinine way ("If you bought the warranty like I told you to, you'd be fine, but you're cheap and screwed now, ain't ya?" type response), it was simply not his fault.

BTW: I don't work retail. I just sympathize with people getting blamed for things well beyond their control. I don't sympathize with them being dumber than dirt or the crappy attitudes many have.

real stoners

[DRAGONWEEZEL]

Don't have the energy or desire to determine all that.

I need a twinkie and some diet squirt.

Re:Guru? Not really ... When is "The Linux Store"

[davidsyes]

When is "The Linux Store", one like the Apple stores, coming? IBM and HP and Sun could get together, fine tune various laptop, desktop, GPS, multimedia, cellular, console, and home management systems in 10 major cities:

San Francisco
Boston
Dallas
Houston
Los Angeles
New York
Baltimore
Denver
Phoenix
Atlanta

just to name some/around 10 cities. I imagine these and other companies could find a creative way to write this off as marketing. Rent or lease properties, them them like Gateway did and Fry's does, aim the products at people earning less than $35,000 a year, and MAKE DAMNED SURE that Gutenprint, SAMBA, Webmin, VNC, and other mixed-environment tools work. Get Compiz/Beryl/Metisse working like never before. Commit to being open 18 hours a day for 2 years. Tie it in to local unemployed/trainable people so cities and counties will allow some variances that otherwise would hamper such a project. Make sure smoothies and coffee and magazines are available, as well as some games, joysticks, and ESPECIALLY CAD apps, like Punch! ViaCAD, Medusa, and products such as 3dConnexion are on hand.

Re:Best Buy + Windows Guru = Apple Store Experienc

[dzfoo]

And the products would, you know, not suck.

        -dZ.

Expensive sales people...

[Arthur Grumbine]

The overall expenditure on this "campaign" seems relatively minor in the scope of the whole "rehab" effort.
Assuming the full-time hours stated in TFA, and that they continue this for a whole year (not stated):
$20/hr=$40k/yr
155*40k=6.2 mil
6.2 mil = A little over 2% of their total rehab effort
What sucks even more from the perspective of being one of these "salespeople" is that you, unlike the other store salespeople, don't even have the opportunity for commission, which must make it even harder to internally justify the act of promoting Vista to unsuspecting saps.

Re:Expensive sales people...

[hardburn]

Best Buy has never paid on commission. Circuit City used to, but doesn't now.

Oh Boy, a Living, Breathing "Clippy"

[retiredtwice]

Just what MS needed....

Re:The Application Form is a CIA intelligence jog

[eln]

19. All positions require the successful completion of a thorough background check and multiple-panel drug test prior to the start of your employment.

I think you're reading this requirement wrong. "Successful completion" of a multi-panel drug test means that you need to show proof that you are actually taking some sort of mind-altering drug or they won't allow you to work for them. The reason for this is simple: Being willing to work as a Windows Vista evangelist without being under the influence of narcotics is a sure sign of dangerous mental illness.

This might backfire, too

[ghoti]

When people start to realize that these "gurus" won't help them with their problems, they will get more irritated than with the usual clueless Best Buy salesdrones. After all, what do you expect a guru to do? Answer questions!

So they will either have to figure out some kind of transition to make those gurus available for tech support (which of course means a lot more training), or end up doing more damage than good.

Re:This might backfire, too

[Firehed]

My thought exactly. Either Microsoft is more ass-backwards than I had previously thought, or they simply don't understand how to compete on the same plane. Apple has plenty of people walking the sales floor answering questions and doing actual sales work, but so does Best Buy. Aside from generally needing less support in the first place, part of that Apple Store Experience is seeing that help desk and seeing that there's a physical presence where you can get any problems solved (or at least assessed, when it comes to hardware repair and such).

The last thing that would make me buy Vista is more people pitching the damn thing to me. I don't hate it, but knowing that I could bring the machine in to have someone actually look at it and not have to fail at diagnosing it over the phone from India would be a HUGE selling point for most people. Not the geeks of Slashdot for the most part, but at least for the majority of those who have attempted to use phone support.

Customer service-oriented companies are destined to succeed when their competitors are only sales-oriented. Apple creates a positive experience* by trying to start you off well and ensure that you're taken care of if problems are encountered. This is rarely if ever the case with Microsoft and the hardware companies that bundle its software. They treat customer support as a cost of doing business rather than a value-add for customers, and it always shows. That may work once, but it sure as hell doesn't generate repeat customers, let alone all of the free word-of-mouth advertising that Apple gets these days.

*I've had plenty of issues with my MBP, but they've all been hardware-related except for one odd corrupted plist file that took them all of five minutes to fix, unlike all of the software problems on my Windows-based systems. They actually worked to fix the problems. Except for when I had a CD burner die in a Dell back in 2002 or so, I've never witnessed this with MS-based vendors as a consumer.

Re:This might backfire, too

[nine-times]

The last thing that would make me buy Vista is more people pitching the damn thing to me. I don't hate it, but knowing that I could bring the machine in to have someone actually look at it and not have to fail at diagnosing it over the phone from India would be a HUGE selling point for most people. Not the geeks of Slashdot for the most part, but at least for the majority of those who have attempted to use phone support.

Where you hit a bit of a problem, though, is that Microsoft is just providing the OEM software, and other people provide the hardware. Even if Microsoft wanted to provide tech support like this, what do they do when it's a hardware/driver problem?

So there's an advantage that Apple has by selling an integrated hardware/software platform. It allows them to provide a better experience and provide better support. At least in theory.

Think "backlash".

[khasim]

What happens when the customer comes back NEXT weekend and tries to get the "guru" that gave him the advice to buy the Vista box?

Okay, grab a different "guru". Why can't you answer my question? The other guy said that it WOULD work.

It's not going to take many episodes like that before this becomes a disaster for them.

Re:They feast on the computers of the living

[griffjon]

So, you initiate conversation with a Vista Guru while continuing to walk through BB, innocently meandering towards the Apple area, making sure to get near the Apple rep (if any). Once within earshot, ask about the whole iTunes/Vista BSOD silliness, and wait until the Guru and the Apple guy knock each other out, then loot the bodies! Effortless!

Re:The Application Form is a CIA intelligence jog

[Tauvix]

It has nothing to do with software. It is, however, a pretty standard requirement for application to most jobs these days.

The last two jobs I have accepted a position with (both with large corporations) required this kind of testing.

Re:Sales Experience

[D Ninja]

I actually asked him that (I knew the printer came with a minimum 1-year warranty) and his response was this, "I don't have time to deal with that crap. I just want a new printer."

In all honesty, I think he just wanted to take the aggression out on someone.

Re:Sales Experience

[D Ninja]

No. I tried to sell him the warranty on the NEW printer that he was buying.

My mistake in the telling of the story.

Re:The Application Form is a CIA intelligence jog

[Windows_NT]

It keeps real programmers from working for them

These are company reps

[fermion]

Company representatives are nothing new or interesting. Many printer companies will pay a rep to hang around the printer department and encourage you to buy their brand of printer. This is not helping the customer as it may be that the printer might not be best the customer. These people are level below the commission sales staff, because at least such staff will try to get you the best match of what is in stock.

These pushers are why MS can't sell vista. They want to sell the product, they want to market it, but they won't support it. What Apple has is the personal touch. Chat icon on the help website. People at the stores you can talk to when you have problem. They support the product. Anyone can go in and talk to a rep for free, even on old product. MS does not support anyone without an additional charge.

Here is what would encourage people to buy vista and MS based computers in general. For about 100 million dollars they could put a help technician in every best buy store. Just a person sitting a desk. Wiling to help anyone who came in with a question. I bet Best Buy would donate facilities. Anytime someone had an issue with any MS Windows based computer, just come in a get some help. Make a reservation. Get the help in person. Do you think MS spent less than $100 million on the series of ad with Seinfeld, and those don't help anyone. The sales droid walking around lying to customers don't help anyone either. It realy seems like MS will spend money on anything other than helping the end user.

I do something similar every year with HP

[Badbone]

Yes, I know this is "hate Microsoft" central, but lets try a bit of objectivity. HP, and Im sure other companies do the same thing.

Each year, during the holidays, I work for a subcontractor of HP in a Best Buy, Circuit City, whatever, to be a rep for HP products. For $20 an hour, ten hours a week I fix displays, keep track of inventory, help people with buying decisions, etc.

At no point was I told to exert undue pressure on someone to buy. Or to misrepresent the product. Or talk down competitors. I am there to demo products, and give my honest opinion.

This just isnt as ominous as people make it out to be. Standard practice, from any other company.

Re:Sales Experience

[Nebu]

I'd be livid if something I bought for $500 broke after only 5 months use, and if I then found out that because I was living in a country with barely any consumer rights I had no way to get this sorted out in a fair manner. I'd rip someone's guts out if they were in any way associated with that purchase.

You have a reasonable expectation at purchase that the goods will last a certain minimum amount of time.

(Empaasis added)

Do you also feel that one should have reasonable expectations about what scenarios will lead to having one's guts ripped out?

A: I'd like to return this $500 device which broke after only 5 months use.
B: Did you purchase the extended warranty?
A: No.
B: Sorry, the basic warranty only lets you return the product within 30 days of purchase.
A: I am livid for having found out that I live in a country with barely any consumer rights.
B: Hey, I hear you man. I'm actually a member of several consumer's rights groups, and have written quite a few letters to my political representatives.
A: I am going to rip your guts out, since you are associated with the purchase.
B: What? Are you serious? Hey, man, look, I'm just a poor college kid. I only got $20 bucks on me; but if you let me call my parents, I can try to get $500 bucks. I'll pay you out of my own pocket if it'll mean you won't kill me.
A: Rip. Guts. Out. Anyone associated.
B: Aaaaiiieeeee!

Re:The Application Form is a CIA intelligence jog

[Just Some Guy]

None of this has anything to do with actual software. It has to do with image. Strung out felons tend to not help create a good image.

Yeah. Stoners are bad publicity.

Re:The Application Form is a CIA intelligence jog

[story645]

The reason for this is simple: Being willing to work as a Windows Vista evangelist without being under the influence of narcotics is a sure sign of dangerous mental illness.

$20 an hour or more, plus benefits? That's awesome for a job that doesn't seem to require much in the way of education or experience. I've never even used Vista and I'm tempted to apply 'cause it requires less effort and pays better than my on campus research/tutoring gigs.

Re:The Application Form is a CIA intelligence jog

[ConceptJunkie]

Well, the job certainly doesn't require you to know anything, because if you did, you couldn't sell Vista without lying.

Re:The Application Form is a CIA intelligence jog

[John Meacham]

Sure you can

"With Vista, you will find yourself working harder than you ever have before"

"I cannot recommend vista too highly"

"I am pleased to say I am a former user of vista"