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AMD Employee Charged With Stealing Intel Secrets

IWonderWhatICanPutInThisFieldWithoutBeingDeleted writes "A man who once worked for Intel and then jumped ship to join AMD has been accused of stealing his erstwhile employer's chip secrets. Federal detectives allege they discovered 19 CAD designs and more than 100 pages of confidential Intel documentation."

55 of 212 comments (clear)

  1. Unfortunately by bugeaterr · · Score: 5, Funny

    It was the design of the Pentium Pro's floating point processor.

    1. Re:Unfortunately by operagost · · Score: 4, Informative

      The Pentium P54 had the FP bug, not the PPro. Your geek card has been revoked.

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  2. ... and AMD wouldn't even touch the info by oldspewey · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The irony is that his new employer (AMD) would never touch the stolen info with a 10-foot pole. The company I work with (also in the IT sector but not hardware) has very, very clear policies around competitive information. They know just how badly it would go for them if they made use of stolen information brought in by a new (or even existing) employee.

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    1. Re:... and AMD wouldn't even touch the info by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      "AMD" wouldn't touch it but it's quite possible lower level employees would look at it to gain valuable insights. Sure they wouldn't directly clone a design but just seeing how it's done can be invaluable.

    2. Re:... and AMD wouldn't even touch the info by RulerOf · · Score: 5, Insightful

      (AMD) would never touch the stolen info with a 10-foot pole.

      Even if they couldn't directly plagiarize the information to enhance their current architecture (I understand there are a lot of very fundamental differences between them), it would be valuable to AMD if they could determine, for example, how fast Intel's next gen chip is going to be in order to make a product that would be able to compete better, even if it meant sacrificing margins.

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    3. Re:... and AMD wouldn't even touch the info by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The irony is that his new employer (AMD) would never touch the stolen info with a 10-foot pole.

      It's not unlike the disgruntled Coca-Cola employees who took the Coke Zero formula to Pepsi. Pepsi wouldn't touch it with Dr. Pepper's 10-foot pole. They turned the disgruntled employees into the appropriate authorities, notified Coke and sent the formula back without breaking the seal.

      Duh. The legal hassles alone aren't worth it.

    4. Re:... and AMD wouldn't even touch the info by rumblin'rabbit · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And generally they want to promote a culture of honesty and integrity. If Pepsi employees think it's okay to steal from Coke, they'll think it's okay to steal from Pepsi.

      Certain political radicals would claim that capitalism is inherently dishonest and corrupt. Although there is plenty of that, they would be amazed at the degree of integrity required to run a successful business.

    5. Re:... and AMD wouldn't even touch the info by Kjella · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The irony is that his new employer (AMD) would never touch the stolen info with a 10-foot pole. The company I work with (also in the IT sector but not hardware) has very, very clear policies around competitive information. They know just how badly it would go for them if they made use of stolen information brought in by a new (or even existing) employee.

      Only a complete and utter moron would come in with a stack of papers stolen from a competitor, I'd have him locked out of every system and escorted out the door before he could steal anything from our company. The problem is more if he's coming up with many great ideas, great analysis and great solutions - either you've scored one of those brilliant employees that drive a department or even division or he's using inside information, but there's no easy way to tell which. Or more likely, to suspect but just turn a blind eye and play completely surprised if shit hits the fan. I don't think the manager would go to legal unless it's so blatant he's sure the shit will hit the fan here and people would question why he didn't see the signs. As for legal, is that any surprise? Any lawyer that gave any other legal advice would probably be fired, disbarred and in jail.

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    6. Re:... and AMD wouldn't even touch the info by eebra82 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      [..] it would be valuable to AMD if they could determine, for example, how fast Intel's next gen chip is going to be in order to make a product that would be able to compete better, even if it meant sacrificing margins.

      Help me explain your theory here. What you are suggesting is that AMD is working at less than full capacity because they don't know what Intel is prepping in the future? These two companies are bittersweet rivals and knowing that your opponent's product will be 200% faster than the previous one is not going to make AMD's scientists think harder.

      Ignorance is bliss, I guess.

    7. Re:... and AMD wouldn't even touch the info by shaitand · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Let me explain further, the reason they both do this is because they want to maximize the profits on the research and development they have already done.

      You release just enough technology to be the top contender now so that you reserve as much technology as possible to sell later. The longer you can profit on any given technology without releasing more the better.

    8. Re:... and AMD wouldn't even touch the info by HungryHobo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Kinda surprises me that we don't see more leaked info from anon disgruntled employees.
      Would I be correct in in assuming that once something has reached the public that it loses it's "trade secret" status and can be used by anyone.
      they'd have to be careful of watermarks etc though.

    9. Re:... and AMD wouldn't even touch the info by anss123 · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's not weird to drink both; what's weird is drinking both while actually caring about the difference. I, for example, don't care: I just drink whichever happens to be cheaper at the moment.

      There is a difference?

    10. Re:... and AMD wouldn't even touch the info by rumblin'rabbit · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And I can only assume that you are very young or haven't spent much time in business. You appear to have drunk the cool-aid that Hollywood and others have prepared about what free enterprize is truly about.

      The basic formula is this: Low integrity loses you both customers and employees. That's not to say that you can't make a profit doing this, but it's the more difficult route.

      And no, I'm not an owner or executive.

    11. Re:... and AMD wouldn't even touch the info by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Developing a CPU takes around 4-6 years from start to first samples. This is anywhere from 3-5 generations of Moore's law. You need to guess very early on the transistor budget available to be able to make the chip affordable. If you delay the release, you get a bit more design time and a more transistors for the same cost. If AMD know now that Intel's next-generation architecture will have certain performance characteristics, then they might decide that it's worth delaying their next design a bit and rolling out a version with a few features that previously they'd thought they'd have to cut. Alternatively, it might be better for them to bring their new architecture forward and sacrifice a few features to fit it on to a smaller die.

      --
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    12. Re:... and AMD wouldn't even touch the info by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The basic formula is this: Low integrity loses you both customers and employees. That's not to say that you can't make a profit doing this, but it's the more difficult route.

      Sadly, not true. Low integrity makes you a short-term profit, and selects for e kind of executive who moves to a new company before it's apparent that is company has no future.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    13. Re:... and AMD wouldn't even touch the info by veganboyjosh · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Your comment makes me wonder what would happen if the employee from TFA would have posted the secrets to wikileaks or similar...

    14. Re:... and AMD wouldn't even touch the info by geminidomino · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The basic formula is this: Low integrity loses you both customers and employees. That's not to say that you can't make a profit doing this, but it's the more difficult route.

      Ahh, there's your flawed premise. "Low/Lack of integrity" doesn't lose you anything. What loses customers and employees is getting caught.

      If you can go long enough without getting caught (as sibling said, to change companies, for example), being a scumbag can be incredibly profitable.

    15. Re:... and AMD wouldn't even touch the info by networkBoy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I hate to burst your bubble,
      But neither company is "decades" ahead.
      Both are roughly 4-5 years ahead on transistor design, less so on architecture. Based on what I do know of business, if they were decades ahead on a product they would get it to market ASAP, not sit on it.

      Any time you see a tech company "sitting" on something for a trade show, it's because they are still trying to get it to work as close to flawlessly as possible, not because they are hoarding technology.

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    16. Re:... and AMD wouldn't even touch the info by UnknowingFool · · Score: 2, Informative

      From what I read, Pepsi never got near the documents. One of the Coke employees sent a message to Pepsi using Coke official letterhead. Pepsi went to the FBI. Through an undercover agent, the FBI paid $10,000 for 14 pages of confidential Coca-Cola memos. Then the FBI paid for other documentation and even a product sample of an unreleased product. Pepsi never actually handled any Coca-Cola materials.

      --
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    17. Re:... and AMD wouldn't even touch the info by geminidomino · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You give the average working shmoe a lot of credit. That's a lot of evolution in just 6 years(Worldcom, June 2002). They got caught.

      Hell, nowadays, getting caught doesn't even matter so much, as long as you have your army of lawyers pervert the law enough to justify you.

      I don't think it's coincidence that most of the most successful/lucrative industries are the least integral (Law, Insurance, Entertainment, Politics, Oil).

    18. Re:... and AMD wouldn't even touch the info by rahvin112 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A good example of this is Costco. A company run by a founder, a man who believes strongly in limiting profits to retain consumers. A man that believes in no restriction returns, even food. A man that believes a well paid employee is a happy and helpful employee. I see the difference every single time I go to Costco. You have a pleasant helpful staff, unlike stores like walmart where you are lucky to find anyone. You have customers like myself who don't worry too much about the prices because I know I'm not paying more than 10% above Costco's cost and spend in excess of 5 figures a year there. Wall Street loves to hound him in the quarterly calls about raising prices or membership fees to increase returns, his response is that raising prices is a seductive path to slow growth.

      The short term growth model wall street has developed over the past 20-30 years doesn't mean all companies are like that. In fact find the companies that aren't and invest in them, because their long term growth will surpass any short term profit seeker by leaps and bounds. Costco alone is making serious returns that exceed market average because the CEO doesn't follow the path to easy profit which destroy long term growth. Invest in those companies now and sell them when the short term profit CEO eventually gets hired and you will retire early, I guarantee it.

    19. Re:... and AMD wouldn't even touch the info by rtb61 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      More likely the reality is that the employee will simply fudge, claim that works as his own in order to seek bonuses, promotions etc. without actually having to do work or even being all that capable of doing it. Likely that particular fellow also borrowed his fellow workmates work to claim as his own whilst at Intel. I once worked with a person like that, all the problems he created where your fault and all the solutions you provided where his and he did bring in some documentation that he claimed as his own which latter proved to be all from his previous employer. Now the catch is what do you don with the fellow, prison seems rather pointless as the work is protected by copyrights and in reality that harm he 'would' have caused to AMD is far greater to any 'perceived' harm caused to intel.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  3. AMD and Intel? by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Toyota and Ferrari?

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    1. Re:AMD and Intel? by blindd0t · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Toyota and Ferrari?

      Which would you buy?

    2. Re:AMD and Intel? by blindd0t · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, I'm replying to myself here, but seriously, I'd sooner buy a twin-turbo Toyota Supra (even if it requires a little work on my part) before buying a Ferrari. I have an idea of what GP was trying to get at here, but I don't know that comparing motor companies had the intended (and likely abrasive toward AMD) effect. Perhaps comparing specific models would have though. ^_^ That said, I have no problems with having second best for far less, so AMD is a good option to me, personally (especially with Video cards).

    3. Re:AMD and Intel? by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Toyota engineers were found guilty of stealing industrial secrets from the Ferrari F1 team. Not so off-topic, nor alegory for AMD and Intel respectively. Just a similar situation.

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    4. Re:AMD and Intel? by BitterOldGUy · · Score: 4, Funny

      Toyota engineers were found guilty of stealing industrial secrets from the Ferrari F1 team.

      I don't get it. Toyota drivers don't have to compensate for small penises like Ferrari drivers.

    5. Re:AMD and Intel? by martinw89 · · Score: 3, Informative

      I have no idea about anything regarding Toyota and Ferrari. I can tell you, however, that McLaren and Ferrari were involved in a huge scandal just this past year. This was a big deal.

    6. Re:AMD and Intel? by dotfile · · Score: 3, Funny

      My Porsche owning friend takes an entirely different kind of ribbing. You know the difference between a Porsche and a porcupine?


      The porcupine has the pricks on the outside.


      Yeah, OK, mod me off-topic now. I can take it.

  4. couldn't help it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    He took the "Intel Inside" campaign too far.

  5. Alleged motive: to impress his new employer by rickkas7 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Poaching the dumb employees from your competitor is probably not the most sound business plan, either.

    1. Re:Alleged motive: to impress his new employer by Sobrique · · Score: 3, Funny

      Damnit, that's where I've been going wrong!

    2. Re:Alleged motive: to impress his new employer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Pani's alleged motive: to impress his new employer" ... because it would impress me to have a potential new hire admit he stole proprietary information from his prior employer...

      I'd thank him, and not make an offer - because he's pretty much admitted if you hire him and he leaves your company, he'll take *your* proprietary information with him too!! LOL

    3. Re:Alleged motive: to impress his new employer by DriedClexler · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Interestingly, General Motors has done the opposite: paid their best employees to work for someone else.

      --
      Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
  6. Usefulness? by AscianBound · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I really have to wonder how significant the information that Intel could get out of these documents is. It seems to me that a few CAD designs and some "confidential" documentation wouldn't be enough to actually give AMD an edge in the market. Even if this information did include Intel "secrets" would they really be things that AMD could implement?

    The guy says he copied of the documents "out of curiosity", which doesn't actually strike me as that implausible. I know I have copies of software packages being licensed for $500,000+ to my previous employer. It's not like I'm going to try to use it to make a profit, I just find it interesting stuff and want to be able to keep it.

  7. Oh No! by yttrstein · · Score: 2, Funny

    NINTEEN Computer Aided Design Designs? We should have never approved that New Technology Technology.

    1. Re:Oh No! by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 3, Informative

      You're trying to be funny, but "CAD designs" isn't redundant. The two instances of the word "design" refer to different definitions of the word (design = plan, vs design = process of making a design), so they aren't redundant.

      --
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    2. Re:Oh No! by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 2, Informative

      *cough*Computer aided DRAFTING*cough*. Drafting is "process of drawing", while design tells me... well, it is a finished design. Fully qualified, "CAD design" becomes "Computer aided process of drawing design".

      --

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  8. Re:On the plus side... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We all steal IP when we leave. Most of us do it in our heads however.

  9. Intel Pull a Ferrari? by segedunum · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So Intel pull a Ferrari and take a leaf out of spygate?

    http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article.html?in_article_id=65980&in_page_id=58

  10. The part you missed... by gentimjs · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What isnt mentioned is that he took the goods from intel because the guys at AMD needed a laugh!

    *ducks*

  11. His resume by BitterOldGUy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I doubt "dumb" or "thief" was on his resumee.

    No it was this:

    • Leveraged competitor's technology in projects.
    • Saved employer millions of dollars in R&D costs
    • Discovered new and improved technologies for employer that was later found in competitor's products.
  12. Re:On the plus side... by Lumpy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Oh holy spagetti monster, every IT person and CS person absolutely rapes the IP when they leave.

    In my boxes that I used to clean out my desk is at least 30 confidential documents that were packed there by the moving company, (I got to keep my desk! that was cool!) and I know I have copies of all the code I wrote when I was there as well as all the SQL queries I wrote.

    I have yet to meet someone that says, "I just left company X, no I don't have anything from my old job..." or " I cant fix that, I fixed that at company Y and they own the IP to that fix."

    All of you rape and pillage IP when you leave. Accidentally or on purpose, you do it. Being a moron and trying to SELL that or taking it with malicious intent? that is the kicker. if he had it because that is how his desk was packed up for him then it's not his fault, nor is he liable for anything.

    --
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  13. Re:Zomg... by Prefader · · Score: 3, Informative

    This has nothing to do with AMD competing with Intel. It appears that AMD didn't use the documents, and the employee made the copies on his own, "out of curiosity".

  14. crimes like this will have to become legal soon by denis-The-menace · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The sad thing is that such laws are only respected in countries like the US and UK.

    Soon countries like China will be able to have much better technologies because they can take the best from all sides and create a super product. Even if the US and UK forbid the importation of such products, companies in the US and UK would be at a disadvantage selling inferior product to other countries.

    Patents and copyrights will prove to be our downfall since they no longer encourage progress but prevent it.

    --
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  15. It doesn't matter for me. by BitterOldGUy · · Score: 4, Funny

    I'm married. My wife keeps my penis in a mason jar under the sink. It only comes out when she wants it.

  16. One thing that has always irked me... by gillbates · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Is that I frequently have ideas at home. And write them down. And later use them at work.

    Would the discovery of these documents in my home constitute evidence of "stealing trade secrets" in the eyes of my employer? If I decided to leave my current employer and work for the competition, would those hobby projects of mine be a liability?

    I'm just curious, because I do quite a bit of independent development, and from time to time, it becomes valuable at work.

    --
    The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
    1. Re:One thing that has always irked me... by faloi · · Score: 3, Informative

      It depends on your contract. Some employers have, essentially, an "all your ideas are belong to us" type clause. Anything you work on, on or off the clock, is their property. At one company I worked for, even if it was something that wasn't related to the industry, you submitted it to their lawyers and applied for leave to pursue it on your own if the company wasn't interested. Essentially, they give you your IP back.

      --
      "It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." -Albert Einstein
  17. Such a foolish crime... by east+coast · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How do people think that they're going to pass this along and not get caught by some method?

    Hell, after the Coca Cola incident I would be fearful of having my new employer even know I have such information, let alone use it in some manner.

    --
    Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
  18. Re:On the plus side... by networkconsultant · · Score: 4, Funny

    During the course of my career I've signed enough Non-Disclosure agreements that it's illegal for me to think; Anecdotes often result in law suits.

  19. Re:On the plus side... by tlhIngan · · Score: 4, Informative

    Oh holy spagetti monster, every IT person and CS person absolutely rapes the IP when they leave.

    In my boxes that I used to clean out my desk is at least 30 confidential documents that were packed there by the moving company, (I got to keep my desk! that was cool!) and I know I have copies of all the code I wrote when I was there as well as all the SQL queries I wrote.

    I have yet to meet someone that says, "I just left company X, no I don't have anything from my old job..." or " I cant fix that, I fixed that at company Y and they own the IP to that fix."

    All of you rape and pillage IP when you leave. Accidentally or on purpose, you do it. Being a moron and trying to SELL that or taking it with malicious intent? that is the kicker. if he had it because that is how his desk was packed up for him then it's not his fault, nor is he liable for anything.

    Except, in this case, he joined AMD while still employed at Intel. He joined AMD June 2. He gave Intel his resignation JUne 11 (and used vacation instead of working through the 2 weeks). Thus he was under the employment of both companies (who we all know are competitors) for a period of time. This goes beyond innocent "rape and pillage" of IP. At least that's part of your cleanup of your stuff, which you do before you start employment at your new employer. And anything you take is covered under NDA or other confidentiality agreeement. But this guy could not only have taken stuff from Intel and gave them to AMD, he could've (unlikely, but possible) taken stuff from AMD given them to Intel, too, and done it quite surreptitiously.

    AMD would have to fire this guy because this would "taint" him, and by association, AMD, who then might have to battle Intel in some lawsuit alleging they used some of those designs in their next processor. AMD might not have, but because this guy has been working at both companies, it's very hard to tell, and AMD really has to do some house cleaning on anything this guy touched to make sure it's clean, and even then, it's hard to tell (the irony is, they can't tell if they're using that stolen IP without knowing what the stolen IP is...

  20. This gives NEW meaning to . . . by JamJam · · Score: 2, Funny

    . . . to Intel gathering ;)

  21. What if it's more sinister? by Chaset · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Intel pays some guy under the table to "quit" and go work for AMD... oh, and take this envelope with you, hint hint nudge nudge.

    Instant competition torpedo.

    --
    -- "This world is a comedy to those who think, a tragedy to those who feel."
  22. Look on the bright side by Rocko+Bonaparte · · Score: 2, Funny

    At least we now know AMD is hiring again!

    --
    No I'm not trolling.
  23. Correction... by Jorophose · · Score: 4, Funny

    P53.989484848488889999999 according to Intel.