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Obama Significantly Revises Technology Positions

method9455 writes "Barack Obama has edited his official website on many issues, including a huge revision on the technology page. Strangely it seems net neutrality is no longer as important as it was a few months ago, and the swaths of detail have been removed and replaced with fairly vague rhetoric. Many technologists were alarmed with the choice of Joe Biden before, and now it appears their fears might have been well founded." Update: 09/22 18:07 GMT by T : Julian Sanchez of Ars Technica passed on a statement from an Obama campaign representative who points out that the changes in wording highlighted by Versionista aren't the whole story, and that more Obama tech-plan details are now available in a PDF, saying "there is absolutely no substantive change to our policy - folks who want more information can click to get our full plan."

117 of 940 comments (clear)

  1. All hail the new king, same as the old king. by h4rm0ny · · Score: 5, Insightful


    When are people going to learn to assess politicians and parties on their actions, rather than their promises? Those that might have really introduced change have already been weeded out. Vote for the puppet of your choice, folks.

    --

    Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
    1. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by xulfer · · Score: 5, Interesting

      When are people going to learn to assess politicians and parties on their actions, rather than their promises? Those that might have really introduced change have already been weeded out. Vote for the puppet of your choice, folks.

      Many have. Obama's tech-related voting record is certainly better than most candidates that come to mind. He's voted against telecom immunity, and FISA fairly vehemently in the past. Perhaps the vague language is merely a way to package both Biden/Obama's views into a single declaration? It was probably just a way to describe both of their technological goals without smearing their respective stances. Should that be the case, it's still the top of the ticket that calls the shots.

    2. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The problem is that you can't vote on actions until after they've been taken.

      Personally, I'm in favour of a nice, simple system where if a politician makes a promise before an election and then breaks it, a court can remove him or her from office. I imagine we'd soon see some changes in the way manifestos were presented, and perhaps those who are not just puppets and actually intend to act according to their stated principles would get a bit more recognition since voting for someone based on their campaign pledges would actually mean something. Those who just say whatever the current audience wants to hear but never really promise anything would stand out by a mile.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    3. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by Rocketship+Underpant · · Score: 3, Informative

      Hate to break it to you, but Obama voted *for* telecom immunity.

      --
      He who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.
    4. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by squiggleslash · · Score: 5, Informative

      The GP was correct, he voted against telecom immunity in the past. In addition, in the most recent vote, he voted against telecom immunity each time the subject came up (ie for all of the amendments that were aimed at removing telecom immunity from the FISA bill), but voted for the final FISA bill (which was about a lot more than telecom immunity.)

      Whether the FISA bill was a good thing is open to question, I was disappointed in Obama voting for it myself, but it's a stretch to claim he supported the telecom immunity aspect of it when he supported all the attempts to remove telecom immunity from it.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    5. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by Time_Warped · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Which is why I am voting 3rd party this election. I do not believe either major party candidate is worthy of my vote. Do I think the 3rd party types have any chance of winning? Not really, but if third party candidates took 20% or so of the vote away from major parties, it might force them to do a reality check.

    6. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I've also proposed this kind of system before (i.e. that a manifesto should be a legally-binding contract with the voters), but I suspect that the result would be candidates putting such fluffy terms in their pledges that the courts would never be able to determine whether they'd actually broken them or not.

      Before New Labour (same as the old conservatives) came to power in the UK, they handed out 'pledge cards' with five election pledges on them. A very simple and powerful message. The Friday Night Armistice made a massive version of these, and each week in their first year crossed off the ones that they'd broken. It was depressing how quickly they all went away.

      Democracy requires an informed electorate to function just as capitalism requires informed consumers. The same level of truth in advertising laws should apply.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    7. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by gfxguy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The "Contract with America" worked really well in the '94 elections, though.

      Honestly, there are two reasons I can think of why politicians in the U.S. won't commit to anything:

      1. If lobbyists know they are committed for/against what they are lobbying for, they won't shower the politician with contributions and "gifts."

      2. Legislators often buy the votes of their colleagues by promising to vote for the colleague's legislation if their colleagues will vote for theirs.

      And then we need to keep one other thing in mind: riders. Legislation that gets ONE vote often contains extra pieces of legislation that has nothing to do with the original legislation. This is why I agree with notion that the president should have a line-item veto power, and I feel that way regardless who is in office.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    8. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      but it's a stretch to claim he supported the telecom immunity aspect of it when he supported all the attempts to remove telecom immunity from it.

      How much more "for it" can you be than a YEA vote for a bill which contains it?

      As a congress critter, if there is a part of a bill you don't like IT IS YOUR JOB TO VOTE AGAINST THE WHOLE THING!!!!

      That's what the whole "checks and balances" thing is all about.

      The immunity is unconstitutional (see ex post facto) even without the 4th amendment violations.

      Between FISA and the Patriot Act, why even have the 4th amendment any more?

    9. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by gfxguy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Which is yet another great example of why voting third party is not a "wasted" vote.

      I'm sick of people telling me I'm wasting my votes (it won't be the first time I voted for a third party), and yet the same people whine about how bad the government is.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    10. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by Shakrai · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This is why I agree with notion that the president should have a line-item veto power, and I feel that way regardless who is in office

      I disagree. We've already made the Executive Branch much more powerful than the Framers intended it to be. Signing statements, refusals to testify, appointments to un-elected Federal agencies that can impose laws (err, "regulations") on the citizenry, warfare without a declaration, international agreements that don't need to be ratified by the Senate, trade agreements that don't need input from Congress, blah, blah, blah, blah.

      You really want to make the Executive even more powerful? Are you nuts?

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    11. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by Shakrai · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm sick of people telling me I'm wasting my votes (it won't be the first time I voted for a third party), and yet the same people whine about how bad the government is.

      You aren't wasting your vote but if you live in a battleground state you really ought to consider the broader ramifications. Do you really think that if Al Gore had won in 2000 that we'd be in Iraq right now? Do you really think that he would have alienated all of our Allies?

      You say your sick of people telling you that you are 'wasting' your vote -- I'm sick of people telling me that there is no difference between the Democrats and Republicans. Both parties are too beholden to corporate interests but there are differences on extremely important issues.

      I've voted third-party myself when both major party candidates suck (as recently as the 2006 NYS Comptroller election) but I really don't think this is one of those times.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    12. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      If you all (including the editor) would read the page, current as of 17 September, it specifically mentions Network Neutrality as a guiding principle.

      Seriously, the whole commenting section is debating about something entirely wrong. RTFA!

    13. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by jezor · · Score: 4, Informative

      As I've pointed out elsewhere, the Republicans still control Congress, by keeping it from passing anything substantive. They have 49 votes in the Senate, which makes anything the Democratic thin majority (49 + 2 independents, one of them Lieberman) does subject to filibuster (the Senate rules say 60 votes are needed to stop discussion), and the President has veto power, which can only be overridden by a 2/3 majority in both houses, so again Senate Republicans can keep any change from happening. Beyond that, regulations and oversight are the job of the Executive Branch through its agencies.

      As for Pelosi, given that she (as Speaker of the House) would be third in line for the presidency should Bush and Cheney be impeached and lose their positions, I didn't blame her for saying it was off the table, as otherwise it would seem like a naked power grab by her. She hasn't, though, kept other Congresspeople from proposing impeachment. {ProfJonathan}

    14. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by HungryHobo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's a pity there's no realistic way that the voting system will be changed in the states.
      It really is the case that when faced with 2 crap mainstream choices you can screw yourself by voting for someone you're really like to see in rather than the lesser of the 2 evils.

      Here we have a vastly superior voting system called Proportional representation.
      I'm probably going to make a mess explaining this.
      It's a little more complex.

      You number your choices 1,2,3,4,etc
      so say there was 4 choices:

      Rep:Jack Johnson:
      Dem:John Jackson:
      3rd party: Joe:
      3rd party: Jill:

      I just number them
      Joe:1
      Jill:2
      John Jackson:3

      Now say after the 1st count
      Joe has 1000 votes
      Jill has 2000 votes
      John Jackson has 10000 votes
      Jack Johnson has 11000 votes

      Under your system Jack Johnson would get the seat and the people who voted for joe and jill would be screwed if John Jacksons policies were slightly better for them than Jack Johnsons.

      Under PR the limit is 12001 votes to get the seat.
      Now when it comes time to count the vote it's clear that Joe isn't going to get in no matter what so he's removed and all the votes for him move to second choices.
      jill still isn't going to get in so her votes are moved to their second or 3rd choice.
      most of the people who voted for joe or jill would prefer John Jackson over Jack Johnson which pushes John Jackson over the 12001 limit and he gets in.

    15. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by gfxguy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why would I feel betrayed? Bush wasn't part of the contract with America.

      Bush has been a horrible president, and I'm voting third party. I've never much liked either of the mainstream parties or politics in Washington in general. If you want a real change, don't vote for Obama, vote for a third party.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    16. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by The+AtomicPunk · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yay - rationalization that your "team" is okay, because, after all - they're your team.

      Please folks, there's no way you're voting for a democrat and republican and *really* thinking you're going to get change. They're all part of the same party, they're all buddies, and they all have roughly the same goals - take lots of your money, waste it, pass laws to control your life, invade other countries.

      The OP is correct, any candidate for change has already been eliminated (Ron Paul, Mike Gravel...)

      Vote third party. Any third party, for that matter.

    17. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Wow, nice dream world you live in. If "congress critters" actually did that then nothing would get passed.... though that might not be so bad :P

    18. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Parent = Insightful.

      You can't go voting for a bill which contains all of the things you were just voting AGAINST, and it's idiotic to think that there is any reason to believe this would ever be acceptable!

      Here's a hypothetical situation for you; I draft a bill to reduce the criminal sentences for minor drug offences to fines (hefty fines, but still no prison time), and to revoke all patents on proven life-saving chemicals currently patented by multi-billion dollar pharmaceutical companies, but I include a clause which brings new legislation which states that terminally ill patients are not entitled to medical care of any kind, as it is quite simply a waste of resources.

      If you're against the last statement, how can you, in good conscience, vote for bill which contains it? Voting for the bill in whole is exactly the same as voting for its constituent parts seperately. He should have voted against it until the parts he disagreed with were removed, and he's a coward for not sticking to his principles.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    19. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by nomadic · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm sick of people telling me I'm wasting my votes (it won't be the first time I voted for a third party), and yet the same people whine about how bad the government is.

      Funny, I'm sick of third-party supporters telling me that the democrats are the republicans are "the same," which is an utter lie, and I'm also sick of being urged to vote for someone whose policies I detest (like Ron Paul) simply to make a statement.

      I remember back in 2004 every political discussion devolved into people urging all of us to vote for the libertarian candidate, Michael Badnarik. It was ridiculous how much support he got here, and the idea was because he was a self-identified libertarian we should all jump on his bandwagon. Now if you did a little background checking you'd find out he was a paranoid conspiracy theorist who explicitly promised to violate the Constitution his first day of office, but that's the sort of background checking that people didn't want to do. Voting strictly along party lines is stupid, whether the candidate is democrat, republican, or part of a third party.

    20. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by fabs64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Good way to shut down a country, all hail anarchy!

      And if the immunity is unconstitutional it won't be a problem as SCOTUS will strike it down yeah?

      The american constitution didn't even manage to remain an upheld document till it's 50th birthday. It's time to just deal.

    21. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by LordKronos · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So let me ask you a question. Do you ever vote in elections? When you do, are the guys you vote for positioned such that you agree with them on EVERY SINGLE TOPIC THEY STAND FOR?

      If so, then I can only imagine you are a politician yourself, and the only box you check on the ballot is your own name.

      If not, then you either don't vote (in which case, you just lost all ability to criticize how anybody else votes) or you vote for the candidate that overall most closely matches how you believe (which makes you a hypocrite)

    22. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by Sebilrazen · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Why would I feel betrayed? Bush wasn't part of the contract with America.

      Bush has been a horrible president, and I'm voting third party. I've never much liked either of the mainstream parties or politics in Washington in general. If you want a real change, don't vote for Obama, vote for a third party.

      Depends, if you vote Libertarian, i.e. Bob Barr, you're voting for Obama in a sense. If you vote for Nader, you're voting for McCain in a sense.

      I'm not trying to be confrontational, but in this sad 2 party system - and yes it's still 2 party, the likely hood of a third party candidate getting the presidency is so unbelievable that it approaches zero.

      --
      "There are no facts, only interpretations." --Friedrich Nietzsche.
    23. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by LordKronos · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Nice try, but I think most people would agree that the last thing outweighs the first 2, making it more negative than positive.

    24. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by Kingrames · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Look, there are a few laws that must be passed.

      Attached to each one are hundreds of laws that cannot be passed.

      Until this process is fixed so that this cannot happen, Congress MUST reject every single such law. No exceptions.

      "just deal" is how we ended up with 8 years of bush.

      --
      If you can read this, I forgot to post anonymously.
    25. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by h4rm0ny · · Score: 4, Insightful


      However, in voting for a third party, he is voting against the two party system which is the problem. Increasing the share the vote received by third parties reduces the consequences of the two party equilibrium. You'll never get a third choice so long as you keep accepting one of the first two you're offered.

      --

      Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
    26. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by c6gunner · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's a question of degrees.

      Imagine a bill were to be proposed which legalized marijuana, allowed for gay marriage, forbade "abstinence-only" sex-ed and created a federal mandate against teaching ID in science classrooms, created reasonable constraints on domestic surveillance, and placed tight limits on political lobbying ... but also happened to legalize curb-stomping puppies. I'd probably put in a lot of effort to get the puppy provision removed, but if my efforts failed I'd vote for the bill anyway. The bill would do more good than harm, so why withhold my vote?

      I'm not familiar with the contents of the rest of the bill in question, so I can't comment on Obama's decision, but I can certainly see that there are many situations in which a person would feel compelled to vote for a bill which contains portions to which he is opposed.

    27. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by NotBornYesterday · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Except reality is not that simple. Example: Politician 1 says he will vote for abc, but against xyz. Bill abc comes up for a vote. To kill it or to sneak xyz through, Politician 2 attaches rider xyz to it. Pol 1 is in an impossible situation.

      Also, there is no room here that I see for a politician to honestly change their mind for the better.

      --
      I prefer rogues to imbeciles because they sometimes take a rest.
    28. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You've taken my hypothetical situation literally. This was not the idea.

      My point is that if you disagree with something strongly enough to vote against it every time the issue is raised, then "how can you, in good conscience, vote for bill which contains it? Voting for the bill in whole is exactly the same as voting for its constituent parts seperately."

      Obama should have voted "Nay", and waited for it to be removed. All he's done is whinge for a while, then caved in and preached about the "lesser of two evils" or some rubbish.

      Retroactive immunity should not exist, and he shouldn't have voted for it in any incarnation. End of.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    29. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by tha_mink · · Score: 3, Informative

      IMO: Although the pile of democratic nations has been growing, when the ability of U.S. voters to influence their government is considered, the U.S. voter is close to the bottom of that pile!

      Well, I'd like to point out that the United States is not a democracy, it's a republic. So, there's that.

      --
      You'll have that sometimes...
    30. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by Shakrai · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They'll go shit all over our liberties.

      Yes, your "choice" here is which set of liberties you want them to go shit over. I really don't see how the third-parties are any better here though. Nader and McKinney will gut the 2nd amendment. Barr is talking a good game but he has a history of trying to repress religious freedom (Google 'bob barr wicca') so I don't believe a word he says either. I'm inclined to believe that Obama wants more gun regulation but not inclined to think that he's willing to spend his precious political capital to get it.... so he seems to be the best of the five choices that we have (from my vantage point, anyway).

      So there's are differences, but damned if we'll know what the important ones are at election time :(

      Well, going by his own history I'd say it's much more likely that McCain will continue the polices of GWB than Obama will..... if you think those policies have been a disaster the choice should be pretty clear.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    31. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by noidentity · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So let me ask you a question. Do you ever vote in elections? When you do, are the guys you vote for positioned such that you agree with them on EVERY SINGLE TOPIC THEY STAND FOR? [...] If not, then you either don't vote (in which case, you just lost all ability to criticize how anybody else votes) or you vote for the candidate that overall most closely matches how you believe (which makes you a hypocrite)

      It's a different situation. There WILL be a president/whatever elected, so it's just a matter of who, and one can either have some influence on this or not. In the case of something like the recent FISA bill, it could have been voted against with NO bill coming through. Congress isn't electing people for a position, it's considering whether to add new things.

    32. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by Nerdposeur · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't think this is the same thing. It's impossible to find a one-issue candidate, so it's probably impossible to find a candidate I agree with 100%.

      It's NOT impossible to write a bill which only does one thing, and it makes no sense to cram 50 unrelated bills into one and present it as "all or nothing."

      "Raising the defense spending" and "allocating money for a corn museum in Iowa" and "funding preschool programs" should not be on the same bill. They should be considered separately. And congresscritters should demand that.

      But I think they mostly prefer to scratch each other's backs.

    33. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by aztracker1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What has Obama done to change anything? I mean, I keep hearing about Obama being about change, and about hope, and reform. But, what has he actually done about anything? Besides get elected, and sell some books. Honestly, the only candidate on either ticket that has demonstrated a willingness, and effort to really change anything is Palin, and I don't agree with her on quite a few things...

      Beyond that, I don't think that change for the sake of it is a good thing. I also don't agree with the continued path towards socialization in this country. I take more of a Libertarian stance, and am very much a fiscal conservative, which makes it hard for me to ever vote for a Democrat. This is why I ask.

      --
      Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
    34. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by Firethorn · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's also happened before; it's often called a 'poison pill'. There's been bills that even the original sponsor has turned against it due to an amendment that was attached.

      Still, while this was a rather obvious version of it, how about something like option 3 is a renewal of the AWB? Some congresscritters will like it, some will be against it, and the NRA/libertarians like me will be screaming, even though before that we were meh of the bill beforehand.

      Well, actually, the 2nd part would have had me reversing position - I'm all for legalizing drugs, but I DO believe drug patents are an important part of new development of drugs. It's essentially government confiscation of the company's assets. Now, adjusting patent rules, or restructuring the FDA/drug approval process, then we can talk. At least patents are extremely limited compared to copyrights today.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    35. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by I'm+not+really+here · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The Summary implies "Obama no longer cares about Network Neutrality!", but I say this is just spreading FUD (cue the "flaimbait" mods... sigh). The GP says both candidates are puppets, but the parent says (rightfully so, IMHO) that it may have been "merely a way to package both [of their] views...", and I think xulfer's hit the nail on the head.

      Yes, the website has been heavily edited, but as I read the edits, I looked at it from a writer and editor's perspective. Nothing added seemed to take away from the earlier content (and much of it clarified issues not previously commented on), nothing removed seemed to indicate that Obama's stance on Network Neutrality had changed (both versions sate that "Barack Obama strongly supports the principle of network neutrality to preserve the benefits of open competition on the Internet.").

      Basically, when looking at this from a writer and editor's perspective, whomever is responsible for this content decided that to keep all of this content while adding the new content would be information overload. The editor kept the summary portions and removed the long multi-paragraph clarifications and expansion on the summaries.

      So, to sum it up: The exceptionally verbose descriptions were edited down to succinct statements of political position, new political stances not mentioned previously were added (with verbose descriptions), and the whole thing was cleaned up to be readable and clear.

      Nothing to see here... move along.

      --
      Before commenting on the Bible, please read it first
    36. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by nomadic · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I won't bother looking up McCain's top donors because it'll be close to the same. Remember that McCain was also one of the Keating 5 (same type of scandal we see unfolding now except with a lot more money).

      Campaign contributions don't automatically mean control, especially where campaign finance limits severely limit how much companies can give. I am an Obama supporter and I think McCain would continue the disastrous laissez faire, unregulated approach to the markets that inevitably cause these crashes, but while I hold a lot of things against McCain, the Keating scandal isn't one of them. I think there is substantial evidence to support the idea that he really didn't realize what he was doing, and he spent the next two decades trying to rectify his mistake (until he sold out to the right wingnuts in the early 2000s). I accept that our elected politicians will occasionally make mistakes, I just want them to realize it and adjust their behavior accordingly.

    37. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by mdarksbane · · Score: 4, Interesting

      But somehow it seems as though the democrats are failing at doing the same thing. Important bills (like FISA) that they should have been able to kill passed anyway.

      If the republicans have the ability to stop things they don't like, why don't the democrats (with the same seat numbers) managed to do the same? The only reason I can think of is that they suck at standing together and being a useful opposition party.

    38. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by Danse · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I take more of a Libertarian stance, and am very much a fiscal conservative, which makes it hard for me to ever vote for a Democrat.

      Who's the last republican president that actually reduced spending? I wonder if you can name him. Google being the great equalizer, I assume you'll get it, but the point is that republicans haven't been a fiscally conservative party for a loooong time.

      Here's a rather short, but interesting article that brings up some information that was surprising to me. It's almost like republicans get the reputation for being fiscally conservative just by claiming they are and yelling about how democrats are going to raise your taxes.

      --
      It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
    39. Re:All hail the new king, same as the old king. by jlarocco · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The whole point of checks and balances in the government was to make sure very little got done and few things were passed. Our country only exists because the founding fathers thought being ruled from afar by a giant, overly powerful government was asinine. The original premise was that the federal government should be small, with very limited power, and should stay out of people's lives as much as possible.

      The founding fathers would spin in their graves if they knew the Federal Register had almost 70000 pages last year.

  2. It's not just NN by Nursie · · Score: 5, Informative

    They've cut out about half the content, and large chunks about what they'll do for kids.

    Either they've had advice that they shouldn't be promising definite things (makes it harder to weasel out of stuff later) or they're just cutting down the page size for some reason.

    Either way, bit of a non story.

    Politician changes mind, big whoop.

    1. Re:It's not just NN by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      From my reviewing, it seems that they removed details/explanation to make it concise. The overall meaning and principles remain the same as before.

    2. Re:It's not just NN by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The main page got changed, not the actual plan pdf, which is available at the bottom of the page, and is the exact same as the old page was.

      It looks like they just cut down the word count for people who want to glance, and hid the details a layer under.

      http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/issues/technology/Fact_Sheet_Innovation_and_Technology.pdf

    3. Re:It's not just NN by GauteL · · Score: 4, Informative

      "Politician changes mind, big whoop."

      Except he hasn't changed his mind, he has simply edited several points to make them more readable.

    4. Re:It's not just NN by Shakrai · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Change what exactly? Details please

      Well, for starters Obama has (from the very beginning -- read Audacity of Hope) decried the deregulation that got us into this financial mess and been in favor of restoring some of the regulations that have been gutted over the last 16 years.

      Both candidates have the details of what they intend to do up on their webpages. The only thing you can do is view those details and take their history into account when deciding how much you believe them (i.e: seems odd that McCain recently embraced regulation after spending two decades opposing it). If you are looking for "details" in the stump speeches or television advertisements you are going to be pretty disappointed though.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    5. Re:It's not just NN by EMN13 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Indeed, this is a non-story. The page still asserts that he's in favor of net neutrality. It looks like it's been edited; some new material was added and old material shortened to compensate.

      There's no dramatic front-page worthy change of direction indicated.

      Frankly, I think he should include a page on the details of various plans where possible, but the linked page is not that page. It's too long as is!

    6. Re:It's not just NN by oodaloop · · Score: 3, Funny

      It's 'change you can believe in.'

      That's Change IN WHICH YOU CAN BELIEVE!! If I ever run for president and try to appeal to urban elites, you can be sure I'll at least refrain from ending my campaign slogan in a preposition.

      --
      Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    7. Re:It's not just NN by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not only that, the page still contains
      Protect the Openness of the Internet: A key reason the Internet has been such a success is because it is the most open network in history. It needs to stay that way. Barack Obama strongly supports the principle of network neutrality to preserve the benefits of open competition on the Internet.

      So I think all that is happening is that he edited the actual text to make it more readable, without substantial change in his position (atleast) on network neutrality. The summary is just an overreaction and an unfounded attack on the VP candidate.

  3. Re:Vote with a bullet. by 4D6963 · · Score: 5, Funny

    They're all rich white men

    You mean, except the one black guy, right?

    --
    You just got troll'd!
  4. America vs Freedom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Every American election always reminds me of the phrase from Alien vs Predator.

    "Whoever wins, we all lose." or something like that.

    1. Re:America vs Freedom by SQL+Error · · Score: 4, Insightful

      10-second civics lesson for you: America has a president, not a dictator. Congress wields considerably more power. No single person, not Bush or McCain or Palin, not even Obama, has the capacity to wreck the country. Or to fix it, for that matter. Much less the entire world.

    2. Re:America vs Freedom by jacquesm · · Score: 4, Insightful

      sorry, but by the looks of it from the outside in you might as well have a dictator. Your president is ignoring the laws of his own country as though they did not exist (or at least do not apply to him), let's not even get started about the vice president.

      That he has a lot of people enabling him goes without saying but it is a very serious situation nonetheless.

    3. Re:America vs Freedom by jacquesm · · Score: 3, Insightful

      For you to say 'Europe's ever-leftward growing interests' means that you have no clue about European politics.

      There is a very strong right wing revival in Europe in full swing as you write this and it is a source of some concern.

      As they say, 'education has a left wing bias', unfortunately the US of A does not even have a left wing to speak of. Nader, maybe... Not that he stands a chance of ever getting elected.

      Winner takes all is the American way, this disenfranchises a very large part of the population, coalition government is the european way and it seems to work a lot better in getting some actual representation.

    4. Re:America vs Freedom by kellyb9 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      WRONG. Congress is ALLOWING him to break and ignore the laws of his own country. The GP is right. None of this would've happened if Congress didn't give him that type of power he has. Blame Congress for where we are now.

  5. It's important... but... by nahdude812 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The technology stance is important, but there are a lot of substantially more important issues on the table right now.

    We're looking at the candidate who has spoken for and stood for change and integrity from before his political career started, and the candidate who has resorted to making bald faced, demonstrably false and misleading lies that in a non-political context would be grounds for a successful slander/libel suit.

    When considering technology specifically, your choices are Obama, who at least understands technology well enough to have created a successful social networking style community site, and McCain who admits he barely even knows how to turn his computer on. If you're voting technology, Obama is the clear superior choice to McCain.

    I know, 3rd party candidate and all that. I'm a supporter of breaking the 2-party system we have here in the US because I think it really hurts us; but to be completely honest, in this election it is down to two candidates.

    It is extremely unlikely that a 3rd party candidate will successfully run for president until there are a fair share of 3rd party candidates in congress who can prove their chops in a way that makes the lot of them look less crazy (some 3rd party candidates look that way, it gives the better ones a bad name). If you support this ideal, trying to support it top-down isn't the way to get it to happen, it's got to be bottom up - local, state, and federal officials.

    In the mean time, support a candidate who has the ability and perspicacity to restore our good will with the rest of the world. The way the economy is going right now, in 2 or 4 years, net neutrality is going to be a lot less important than food on the table and whether or not our troops are committing war crimes abroad, and whether or not our government is committing anti-constitutional crimes domestically.

  6. Re:WooHoo by niiler · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Of course, if it's a choice between this and Sarah "kill all the baby seals/wolves/mooses cause it's manly" Palin, I'm pretty sure it's a no brainer. On a serious note, the new position actually does reiterate protections of net-neutrality:

    Protect the Openness of the Internet: A key reason the Internet has been such a success is because it is the most open network in history. It needs to stay that way. Barack Obama strongly supports the principle of network neutrality to preserve the benefits of open competition on the Internet.

    In fact this is his number one point under "Ensure the Full and Free Exchange of Ideas through an Open Internet and Diverse Media Outlets" as it was before. If you read the previous version, it goes from being a bullet point to being a full-blown lecture. Most people would stop reading. I suspect the ideas are all still there, only they are not being listed in so windy a manner.

  7. Net Neutrality Position Remains Unchanged by Alt_Cognito · · Score: 5, Informative

    "Barack Obama strongly supports the principle of network neutrality to preserve the benefits of open competition on the Internet."

    Barack is completely behind net neutrality, where as McCain is not, but don't let the facts get in the way of the way you try and put FUD out there.

  8. WTF? by Southpaw018 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Strangely it seems net neutrality is no longer as important

    What the fuck are you talking about? It's THE VERY FIRST GODDAMN THING HE MENTIONS.

    Barack Obama and Joe Biden's Plan
    Ensure the Full and Free Exchange of Ideas through an Open Internet and Diverse Media Outlets

    * Protect the Openness of the Internet


    If you're a McCain supporter trying to weasel votes away on Slashdot, you need to say so.

    --
    ACs are modded -6. I don't read you, I don't mod you, I don't see you. Don't like it? Don't be a coward.
    1. Re:WTF? by Bicx · · Score: 3, Funny

      I praise you sir for your calm and unbiased insight.

    2. Re:WTF? by CrimsonScythe · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you look at method9455's user info, this submission is his/her only activity since registering, which is quite recently if you go by the user number (1368959). No doubt this is just another republican troll.

      --
      The view was horrible and the smell was even worse; Julie severely regretted becoming a proctologist.
    3. Re:WTF? by CrimsonScythe · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well, since the summary is clearly wrong, which is evident to anyone who actually clicked the link*, I have to assume the sole purpose was to troll. To be fair, though, I may have jumped to conclusions; it could just as easily be a libertarian troll. (Or even other politically motivated troll.)

      * Verbatim from said link:

      Protect the Openness of the Internet: A key reason the Internet has been such a success is because it is the most open network in history. It needs to stay that way. Barack Obama strongly supports the principle of network neutrality to preserve the benefits of open competition on the Internet.

      --
      The view was horrible and the smell was even worse; Julie severely regretted becoming a proctologist.
    4. Re:WTF? by dpilot · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Don your tinfoil hats, please...

      It appears that the media have decided that it's time for Obama to lose the election. There is nothing in the news now directly about Obama, none of his own words, there is everything in the news about his campaign with words like "beleagured", "desperate", and this "vague rhetoric" stuff. Coming out of the Republican Convention there was the "rock star frenzy" about Sarah Palin, until facts started to reveal that she is really something of a Dan Quayle. There was a brief news cycle of fact discovery about Sarah Palin, and now things seem to be over to Dog Pile on Obama. By the way, notice how Iraq has pretty much disappeared from the news lately? The one thing I did hear is that the central government is beginning to arrest Sunnis, essentially dismantling the "Anhbar Awakening."

      It's certainly good that we keep being told about our terrible Liberal Media, because I surely wouldn't have guessed it from what I've seen, lately.

      I had thought the media were trying to keep this a tight horse-race, because that enhances their own status and ratings, by keeping us watching. That doesn't appear to be the case. Coming into the conventions, we had a Democratic rock-star candidate against a Republican whose own party had very little enthusiasm for him. Coming out we have an invisible Democratic candidate and an energized Republican party, and as far as I can tell, it's largely done with media coverage.

      Oh, and we haven't even see this year's "October Surprise" yet.

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
    5. Re:WTF? by dpilot · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I guess I'll take a little time to answer an AC.

      I'll give one example - the Iraq War. There was little-to-no significant questioning of the Bush administrations "evidence" leading to the Iraq war, and after it came out that the evidence was defective, and very possibly cherry-picked, with some possibility of outright fabrication, there was still no investigation.

      The nation has gone to war on false pretenses, done incredible damage to our prestige and trust overseas, and those who presided over it have received no significant account for their actions.

      One way I heard it... Perhaps reporters may be left-wing, but somewhere up the management chain it turns solid right-wing.

      The other way I've heard, from several sources, is that it's not a conspiracy, it's PROFIT. The media has become so revenue and profit oriented that investigative journalism has become a thing of the past. It's much cheaper and more profitable to accept press releases and report them as news.

      In other words, in the USA the Press is broken, and has abdicated its duty, as conceived by the founders of our country.

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
    6. Re:WTF? by magus_melchior · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Don't be too sure of that. The reports of inaccuracies, even reports of outright lies from the McCain campaign are increasing. In 2000, they were caught completely off guard by the Bush campaign's Hitler-esque tactics of lying blatantly and loudly. In 2004, they assumed that the same campaign wouldn't do the same bullshit again, and then there was the Swiftboat Veterans* for America.

      In 2008, The Daily Show, The Colbert Report, heck, even Saturday Night Live are laughing at the media's collective incompetence. I do think they've heard of the old Irish saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

      No, don't use the Bush version. I don't want my IQ reduced by half.

      * I have another name for those guys, but I'll restrain myself. If we get a Democrat in the Oval Office, I'll gladly call them what they are, since I won't be charged with sedition or disloyalty.

      --
      "We are Microsoft. You shall be assimilated. Competition is futile."
  9. Re:Vote with a bullet. by OeLeWaPpErKe · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Actually the black guy qualifies in anyone's book as a rich white guy ... Unless you're totally obsessed with skin color.

    millionaire - check
    ivy league educated in law - check
    wife and kids - check
    lives in suburbs - check

    "change" - well I guess not that much change. Okay, let me revise that, no change at all.

    Obama is just another lawyer. One who doesn't have a principles stance of "freedom" but "hmmm, these RIAA guys, they DO pay kinda nice".

  10. Concise speech, soundbites by tergvelo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It looks to me like they hired an editor to cut the wall of text down to size. The first huge cut under the heading "Protect the Openness of the Internet" kept the main point while eliminating a massive unnecessary explanation. Readers who are unfamiliar with net neutrality would have been turned off by the wall of text anyway. Also, notice that Versionista doesn't track when blocks of text move to different locations on the page. There are a few paragraphs that simply got moved to other sections. This is just a sensationalist headline that doesn't really belong here. It isn't a "position revision." It is an edit that takes a very lengthy page & cuts it down to a more digestible size. Yes, there's new content, and yes, there are revisions. But on the whole, it's nothing to get up in arms about.

  11. He still supports network neutrality.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    From his current page:
    "Barack Obama strongly supports the principle of network neutrality to preserve the benefits of open competition on the Internet."

    He still holds the same position, he dumbed down the verbage because dumb people wouldn't understand his first version of his website.

  12. Re:Because McCain chose Palin by DrLang21 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    While I don't think that's the whole story, there is definitly something to this. Even most well educated people are going to be dumbstruck by detailing tech policy. Ask any liberal arts major who's 30 years old what net neutrality really means and the chances are going to be pretty good that they either have the wrong idea or no idea at all. The community of people who wont glaze over when reading detailed tech policy is pretty tiny in comparison to the rest of the US population. That's why we often get paid more.

    --
    I see the glass as full with a FoS of 2.
  13. Re:Vote with a bullet. by 4D6963 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Ha, but you're forgetting one thing. Well two actually, he can dance and he can jump! If that doesn't make him black, that makes him pretty fly for a rich white guy.

    --
    You just got troll'd!
  14. Re:Lobbiest money. by oodaloop · · Score: 3, Informative

    Well, McCain was the one who took the public campaign financing and is barred from raising money for his campaign now. Obama initially vowed to also take the public campaign financing, then chose not to and now has to raise it all himself. Of the two, it seems Obama is much more prone to being bought out or at least influenced by donors. Open Secrets shows Obama accepted far more money from large corporations than John McCain.

    http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contriball.php?cycle=2008

    --
    Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
  15. Re:Lobbiest money. by 4D6963 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yeah, if Harvard and the University of California count as big evil corporations. Refresh my memory, will you please, how many lobbyists work for John McCain again?

    --
    You just got troll'd!
  16. Re:Vote with a bullet. by Shakrai · · Score: 4, Funny

    OMG! Green leafy vegetables! How did it come to this? How can someone who eats rabbit food be this close to the White House?

    --
    I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
    We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  17. Re:Lobbiest money. by 4D6963 · · Score: 3, Funny

    We can't even be bothered to read the summary, let alone the article, so sourcing our claims is quite a long shot ;-).

    --
    You just got troll'd!
  18. I call bullshit by GauteL · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This post is pretty much pure bullshit.

    If you look at the revisions, Obama has shortened some bullet points to make them more readable.

    He still lists what he supports, but he does not going into massive detail in each one of them.

    For instance, his current stance on network neutrality is now (emphasis mine):

    "* Protect the Openness of the Internet: A key reason the Internet has been such a success is because it is the most open network in history. It needs to stay that way. Barack Obama strongly supports the principle of network neutrality to preserve the benefits of open competition on the Internet."

    Instead of:

    "* # Protect the Openness of the Internet: A key reason the Internet has been such a success is because it is the most open network in history. It needs to stay that way. Barack Obama strongly supports the principle of network neutrality to preserve the benefits of open competition on the Internet. Users must be free to access content, to use applications, and to attach personal devices. They have a right to receive accurate and honest information about service plans. But these guarantees are not enough to prevent network providers from discriminating in ways that limit the freedom of expression on the Internet. Because most Americans only have a choice of only one or two broadband carriers, carriers are tempted to impose a toll charge on content and services, discriminating against websites that are unwilling to pay for equal treatment. This could create a two-tier Internet in which websites with the best relationships with network providers can get the fastest access to consumers, while all competing websites remain in a slower lane. Such a result would threaten innovation, the open tradition and architecture of the Internet, and competition among content and backbone providers. It would also threaten the equality of speech through which the Internet has begun to transform American political and cultural discourse. Barack Obama supports the basic principle that network providers should not be allowed to charge fees to privilege the content or applications of some web sites and Internet applications over others. This principle will ensure that the new competitors, especially small or non-profit speakers, have the same opportunity as incumbents to innovate on the Internet and to reach large audiences. Obama will protect the Internetâ(TM)s traditional openness to innovation and creativity and ensure that it remains a platform for free speech and innovation that will benefit consumers and our democracy. "

    So instead of a massive (and unreadable) paragraph, it is now a very simple bullet point saying that Obama strongly supports network neutrality. How on earth is this "downplaying" network neutrality?

    1. Re:I call bullshit by Tyger · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There needs to be a way to mod a story down.

    2. Re:I call bullshit by jefmes · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I came to this posting this morning ready to be pissed off, because Obama's tech stance is one of the first reasons I started supporting him. But I agree, after actually READING the comparisons, it looks more like a clean up of some of the points and the addition of Biden throughout the listing. There's nothing major in policy change there that would make me think differently about his stances. But yes, the proof is all in the pudding, and I'm glad there are sites like Versionista for comparison down the road.

  19. Re:Vote with a bullet. by Shakrai · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Obama is just another lawyer

    Could we please stop attacking lawyers just for being lawyers? Do civil rights attorneys bother you? Consumer rights attorneys? How about the lawyers who argued Brown v. Board of Education? How about Clarence Darrow (argued for the defense in the Scopes Trial)? What about John Adams (Founding Father)? What about Ray Beckerman (aka: NewYorkCountryLawyer)?

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that not every lawyer is a RIAA extortionist.

    --
    I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
    We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  20. Re:Lobbiest money. by Shakrai · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Open Secrets shows Obama accepted far more money from the employees of large corporations than John McCain.

    Fixed that for you.

    --
    I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
    We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  21. Re:Vote with a bullet. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Informative

    lives in suburbs - check

    Um, Barack lives right here on the South Side of Chicago. And brother, let me tell you, this ain't the suburbs.

    Also, he only became a "millionaire" in the past three years or so after writing a couple of best selling books. He only paid off his and his wife's student loans about five years ago.

    He was never "just another lawyer". Ask any of his students from the UofC law school or the people at the community organization at which he worked, for about $29,000 per year.

    Don't be a bozo.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  22. Important Differences by copponex · · Score: 5, Insightful

    These are guesses, or even hopes. I agree that any of the viable candidates are going to serve the corporate interest, but there are important differences.

    1. Obama will engage in diplomacy with Iran, and hopefully in covert ways with Hezbollah, Hamas, and the nationalist Iraqi forces. If you're serious about ending terrorism, you have to engage the enemy dipomatically and address the conditions that lead to it. Protip: killing more muslims with western weapons isn't helping.
    2. His Administration will sweep out the Bush/Reagan Administration, while McCain would probably keep a lot of it. That's worth my vote right there.
    3. Obama does not pander to Jerry Falwell or any of his imitators. It's America, so he has to recognize the religious element, but he doesn't associate with the fundamentalist nutcases.
    4. Obama has shown his distaste of the Bush and Clinton Dynasties. Change is good.

    Most importantly, Obama is not McCain. McCain has turned from a moderate Republican, who I would have seriously considered voting for in 2000, to a complete shill, pandering to evangelicals, touting proto-fascist military slogans, and most importantly, has shown the same inability to engage in serious self-criticism that has truly frightened the rest of the world in regards to the Bush Administration. McCain also claims to believe that the Iraq war has something to do with counterterrorism or the spread of freedom, which to any serious observer, is total fucking nonsense.

    1. Re:Important Differences by Uberbah · · Score: 3, Insightful

      1) Iran had a peaceful, democratic government. Until it was destroyed by the United States. If you want to complain about Iran's theocracy, start yelling at a mirror.

      2) If you want to know the kind of personnel McCain would have in his administration, look at the staff he has running his campaign.

      3) Racist bullshit. No, seriously, harping on Rev. Wright when white preachers say worse things every single Sunday is straight up "angry black man" racism. And what he said wasn't even bad: he was talking about how minorities had been horribly mistreated by the U.S. government - Wright grew up while the feds were experimenting with syphilis on black men. As opposed to guys like Falwell and Hagee who talk about how the U.S. is hit with hurricanes and terrorist attacks because God hates homosexuals.

      And you are completely ignoring the hypocrisy aspect: in 2000, McCain called Falwell and Robertson "agents of intolerance". Now he can't suck up to their kind enough.

      And chances are that Jeremiah Wright is a far, far better American than you. He voluntarily gave up his student deferment and went off to Vietnam for two tours of duty as a United States Marine, as opposed to the Bushco chickenhawks. And when he finished his second tour, he reenlisted as a medical corpsman.

      4) Baseless crap.

      McCain has flip flopped on every issue that made him a maverick to win the backing of troglodyte wingnuts

      There, fixed that for you.

      His nomination of Sarah Palin, a completely unvetted woman he met only once shows his impulsiveness makes him unfit for the presidency.

      Fixed that too.

    2. Re:Important Differences by jbeach · · Score: 3, Interesting
      I see your black liberation theology nutcases, and I raise you Sarah Palin - a fundamentalist theology nutcase who McCain would put **inside the White House**, and have her finger on the button should he die in office. Which based on his age has a 1 in 3 chance of happening - and that's not even taking into account that he's had cancer 3 times already.

      Also that "soggy liberal nonsense" gave us 8 years of peace and prosperity under Clinton. And the last 7 years of non-"soggy liberal nonsense" has given us a list of foreign and domestic policy disasters that now include the worst stock crash since the Great Depression.

      So for McCain to be change from GWB, and Obama to be more of the same - well, that actually doesn't logically connect in any way. Really, it doesn't.

      --
      The Invisible Hand of the Free Market is what punches workers in the nuts.
  23. Vote with a list. by Ostracus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Actually the black guy qualifies in anyone's book as a rich white guy ... Unless you're totally obsessed with skin color."

    Or checklists.

    --
    Shai Schticks:"You don't make peace with friends, you make peace with enemies"
  24. Re:Vote with a bullet. by jacquesm · · Score: 3, Insightful

    true enough, but I would prefer a world without lawyers to one with 'good' lawyers and 'bad' lawyers.

    I realize we need laws but the very large majority of the lawyers is simply parasitic to society.

    It should be possible to get by with far far less of them then there currently are.

  25. Re:Vote with a bullet. by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That is being racially intolerant of his mother. Or does black plus white equal black?

    --
    -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
  26. Re:Vote with a bullet. by theaceoffire · · Score: 4, Informative

    Almost...

    Except Barack's net worth is $799,006.

    http://fortune535.sunlightprojects.org/lawmaker/507/


    Maybe you were thinking of McCain? ($36,431,099)

    http://fortune535.sunlightprojects.org/lawmaker/498/


    And if you think you will get *any* change from an old man who has been in Office 30 years and only agrees with Bush *MORE* as it gets closer to election, I think you are misguided.

    --
    I steal signatures. This one used to be yours.
  27. Re:Vote with a bullet. by Simon80 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yes, but if all lawyers were good lawyers (crazy, I know), wouldn't the problem fix itself?

  28. Re:Vote with a bullet. by jacquesm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think the legal profession is a bit like a priesthood, it actually thrives on obscure interpretations of language and on serious consequences of failing such interpretations. It's like an arms race, if your opponent has a lawyer then you'd better get one yourself and so on. The end result is a legal system that is well beyond the average smart persons capability to interpret.

    It should have never ever gotten this far.

    If you simply removed all lawyers and let the parties argue their own cases exclusively we'd see two things:

    - a significant drop in caseload
    - a return to reasonable verdicts instead of verdicts on technicalities

    Of course it's a pipe dream (especially in criminal law) but like with most extreme positions it has a grain of truth in it somewhere and it would be nice to be able to shift the 'middle ground' to the point where lay people would stand a chance against a seasoned lawyer, and where verdicts would actually make sense to an informed outsider.

  29. Re:Vote with a bullet. by Shakrai · · Score: 5, Funny

    He became a 'millionaire' because he wrote a couple memoirs? Huh? So writing a couple memoirs is a 'get rich quick' scheme that we should all engage in, it isn't a way for the politically connected to siphon in some green?? Well, then, I guess we should all write our memoirs.

    So now we hate authors too?

    --
    I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
    We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  30. Re:Vote with a bullet. by jabithew · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Okay, well. He fulfills the requirements of 'blackness' for racial stereotyping, or at least he fills in the checkbox on two items on the list, for the camera.

    Er, he also fits the white guy by racial stereotyping. Is it any wonder the blacks in America have such a crappy time if people question their "blackness" as soon as they start to achieve? It's like to be black is to fail from these posts.

    --
    All intents and purposes. Not intensive purposes.
  31. Re:Vote with a bullet. by kperson · · Score: 5, Funny

    I keep forgetting -- does having a wife and kids make you rich, or white?

  32. Re:Vote with a bullet. by aurispector · · Score: 4, Insightful

    US law schools churn out far more lawyers than we need, yet we have a looming shortage of family physicians since the insurance companies (i.e. their employers) don't want to be bothered actually paying them. The average salary for non-ivy league lawyers is far lower than you might think, particularly if you exclude the hapless drones working at the big lawsuit factories.

    We will be able to do without lawyers once we can all agree to make and abide by the rules rationally, i.e never. We COULD do with fewer lawyers which could happen but probably won't.

    I'd suggest we would do better with a major reform of the health insurance industry so every doctor doesn't feel compelled to specialize in order to make their investment of time and effort to become doctors (which is far more difficult than in law) pay off.

    --
    I have mod points. The reign of terror begins now.
  33. Re:All hail the new lump, same as the old lump. by Shakrai · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Eh, I just don't see a line-item veto as anything more than a power grab by the Executive. Have the balls to veto the whole bill if the riders are that bad.

    If you really want to fix this problem then I'd suggest starting with gerrymandering and not the line-item veto. If Congressional races were actually competitive maybe our Congress-critters would be more responsive to the citizenry.

    --
    I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
    We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  34. Re:Because McCain chose Palin by Lumpy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    more educated does not mean smart.

    I know many people with masters degrees that are dumber than a box of rocks.

    So waving your educated flag around does not impress many people.

    the GOP chose a woman simply because they want to get the "we want a woman in the white house vote" there are a lot of pissed Hillary supporters and the GOP hopes to high hell they will get them over to their side.

    there is NOTHING intellectual about this presidential campaign. It's all about bullshit, which makes it typical.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  35. Re:Vote with a bullet. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is why America will fall. As I see it, you just turned having an ivy league education into a negative point...

    And, he's a rich white guy because he's got a wife and kids? Really? Couldn't think of anything else?

    No, you're right. There's absolutely no change between a white child of privilege who's father and grandfather's influences gave him his education and career, and a guy from a single family mixed race household who went to college on scholarship, earned his admittance, and finished in the top of the class.

  36. "Change" is normal: Look at earlier campaigns. by TerranFury · · Score: 5, Informative

    I was watching campaign ads from previous American presidential elections here -- it starts with the Eisenhower campaign and works forward -- and I was struck by how many candidates used the same rhetoric. "Change" has been a staple campaign theme for a long, long time.

    It seemed there were three major types of ads:

    1. "You don't switch horses in midstream."
    2. "Change!!"
    3. "He said X, but now he says NOT(X); don't trust him."

    There might also have been a fourth, "Our candidate is a nice human being!"

    Here are some examples of #2, "Change," below (I've quoted the last sentences from a number of the ads at the above URL):

    1. "Vote for new American leadership. The country needs it; the world needs it. John F. Kennedy for president."
    2. "Jimmy Carter: A leader, for a change."
    3. "Clinton-Gore: For people, for a change."
    4. "[George W. Bush]: A fresh start for America."

    "Change" is exactly what you can expect the opposition party to be selling in any election. The only reason Obama's campaign seems novel is that we have the collective memory and attention-span of a goldfish.

  37. Re:it does not matter by The+AtomicPunk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Although I'm sure you and I agree on how big of a jackass GWB is, you can hardly say he *created* the national debt. I think that honor is shared among a long line of democrats and republicans.

    http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/history.gif

    http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/inflation.gif

  38. Re:Vote with a bullet. by thedonger · · Score: 5, Interesting

    His blackness was questioned by other black people. I believe the quote was about him "lacking slave blood." [Charles Kenzie Steele, Jr.] And let's not forget that by having a white mother he is just as much white as black.

    Funny how both sides can simultaneously make race an issue and denounce race as an issue.

    --
    Help fight poverty: Punch a poor person.
  39. Re:Vote with a bullet. by c6gunner · · Score: 4, Funny

    It is called meta-color.

    My colour-sampler puts him at #A67A61

  40. Re:Vote with a bullet. by CmdrGravy · · Score: 3, Informative

    Of course it would require much clearer and more straight forward laws and rules with less chance for built in loop holes for weasels to find their way through

    I'm sure you can have one of these things but it's hard to see how you would get both.

  41. Re:Vote with a bullet. by c6gunner · · Score: 5, Interesting

    We will be able to do without lawyers once we can all agree to make and abide by the rules rationally, i.e never. We COULD do with fewer lawyers which could happen but probably won't.

    Or, alternately, we could probably do without lawyers if we'd just simplify the damn legal code, and we could DEFINITELY do with fewer lawyers if we'd stop making stupid laws.

    Take drug laws for example. The US annually arrests upwards of 800,000 people for marijuana violations alone. That means you're creating 1.6 million opportunities for lawyers (prosecutor and defense) on an annual basis. I don't know about you, but I'd much rather open up that industry to farmers, pot-bar/"coffee-house" owners, and other related private ventures, instead of creating jobs for lawyers, judges, police officers, and criminals.

    There are countless such examples - marijuana was just the first one to come to mind because I was recently discussing the idea with some friends in law enforcement. Eventually it evolved into a discussion about law enforcement as a whole, and the general consensus seemed to be that we just have way too many pointless laws.

    If you want to have a society in which law and order are taken seriously, it's much better to have a few very important laws which you enforce with a high degree of success rather than having a whole slew of laws, half of which you can't effectively enforce, and the other half of which you can only enforce sporadically because you're forced to waste resources on stuff that shouldn't be illegal in the first place. Not only does the current criminal code make law-enforcement less effective, but it makes the legal system unnecessarily complex, wastes taxpayer money on jobs that shouldn't even exist, and actually encourages crime.

  42. Re:Vote with a bullet. by torstenvl · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What a troll.

    The anti-lawyer rhetoric on this board is pretty ridiculous. In case you forgot, the drafters of every open source license are lawyers. Lawrence Lessig is a lawyer. Charles Nesson is a lawyer. The people representing the defendants in RIAA suits are lawyers.

    Obama is just another lawyer ... who ... ha[s] a ... stance of ... "hmmm, these RIAA guys, they DO pay kinda nice."

    [citation needed] buddy. This truthiness crap is ridiculous. Unless you can prove the RIAA has employed Obama, that's libel. Watch yourself bub.

  43. Give Obama a Break, and Your Vote by tjstork · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm a right wing Republican whose endorsing John McCain but I am appalled at the way you liberals are once destroying yourselves and your candidate with your withering self doubt. We have on the right have a joke, that is, only Democrats could be so smart as to figure out a way to blow election after election and here you go again.

    Can you please have some hope?

    What Obama did with his web site was to basically rewrite it from the mishmash that it was into something more coherent. There is nothing substantively different about this restructuring. Obama has always been in favor of strong IP legislation, but, so what of it?

    Do you really think that a man who spent his formative years arguing in favor of some form of socialism will suddenly turn his back on that?

    Do you really believe that a man who has worked his entire life organizing his own liberal constituency into an election machine is suddenly going to come out looking like Reagan?

    I mean, seriously, don't you think Michelle would kick his rear if he even thought of selling out?

    I mean come on liberals. You are getting a guy whose is your best standard bearer for your commy liberalism in easily 40 years, if not since Roosevelt, and arguably all time. Obama knows well that which he argues and that's why on the right hate the son of a gun so much. If you are liberally inclined, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Obama is a committed idealist with the trappings of greatness about him and in spades. A minor shift in a political position or a rephrasing of a web site is not going to alter the overall thrust of this man's policy or his life.

    So, don't lose faith because some staff member re-edited the web site. Obama is going to deliver for you liberals nearly everything that you believe in if he is elected. Obama is the real deal of liberalism. This is your chance. Don't f--- it up.

    Now, quit whining, liberals, as you so often do, and get off your asses and vote for this guy. He's the best you'll have in your lifetime and now is the time to go for it.

    --
    This is my sig.
  44. Re:Vote with a bullet. by tha_mink · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Ummmmmm ... yes. Until such time as they start writing laws in a language that the average person can read and understand and so, can defend themselves

    How about just smarter average people?

    --
    You'll have that sometimes...
  45. Re:FP! by iserlohn · · Score: 5, Informative

    You really have to question the submitters' motivation on this one.

    If anybody bothered to read the diff, it is obvious that the page was re-written to improve accessibility, so that more voters can understand the issues. Long paragraphs were shortened and some of the details were omitted so that the page does not sound like a treatise.

    Some of the items like immigration was taken out, I suppose, because it didn't belong on the technology page. A lot of the text was rearranged, I assume, for better structure.

    If all you wanted to know about is net neutrality, then yes, a lot of the material that described the mechanism in detail is gone. However, this issue has been debated to death online and most people have less of an idea of how the internet works than Ted Stevens. I seriously don't think Obama has changed his stance on this, other than to put it on equal footing with other issues related to technology on that page.

  46. Re:Vote with a bullet. by SageinaRage · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you removed all lawyers and let all parties argue their own cases, you'd immediately see a drastic shift in power to the upper class and more educated, who would actually know the law, and have time to study and interpret it. The reason we have lawyers is so that EVERYONE has an expert on the law on their side. Also there'd be a shift in power towards prosecution, since the state pretty much by definition has to have a lawyer, or at least one person who puts forward cases against a multitude of defendants.

  47. "It's the Supreme Court, stupid..." by Slartibartfast · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Honestly, while I care about the candidates' views on technology, I think long-term impact will be felt far more strongly based on who they appoint to the Supreme Court ("SCOTUS"). The reason I say this is because, by-and-large, republican nominees have been more willing to clamp down on civil liberties, with special attention to interpretation of free speech. (Alas, they've all proved pretty wrong-headed when it came to Eldred v. Ashcroft, a/k/a the unfettered expansion of copyright... but that's where the difference between interpretation and legislation comes in, and, alas (for this case), the SCOTUS isn't nearly as revisionary as the fundies would have us believe.)

    So, anyway, I care about McCain and Obmama's positions. But I care far more that the Court is becoming substantially unbalanced, and worry that a republican in office will have decades-long influence over most every freedom we currently take for granted.

  48. Re:Vote with a bullet. by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Could we please stop attacking lawyers just for being lawyers?

    Turn on any TV channel less high-brow than The History Channel (and maybe even that one; I don't watch it because I'm not that high-brow). Wait 15 minutes. You will see at least one advertisement for lawyers who want you to get rich from asbestos exposure ("even second hand!") or to get you that social security disability check that "you know you deserve". This probably accounts for 90% of the average person's contact with the legal community. Can you really blame them for thinking poorly of the profession?

    --
    Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
  49. Re:Vote with a bullet. by Killjoy_NL · · Score: 5, Funny

    In the US, it usually makes you a man ;)

    --
    This is the sig that says NI (again)
  50. Re:FP! by GuyfromTrinidad · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I totally agree with you, right now it is all about telling your point in the simplest way possible and making that emotional connection (hence the heavy prevalence and inclusion of Science and Math two subjects that America ranks about 23rd worldwide at 7th and 8th grade level).

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    End of line
  51. Re:FP! by dgatwood · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The thing is, all this could be solved by adding a "Read More" link to expand out the section to include more detail. In its current version, it does look watered down to be more corporate-friendly even if that was not the intent.

    --

    Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

  52. Re:Vote with a bullet. by GarfBond · · Score: 4, Insightful

    McCain's income is missing his wife's, which should be fair game to include. All reasonable people would consider that "household" income anyway. Good job playing games with the percentages though.

  53. Re:FP! by adisakp · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If anybody bothered to read the diff, it is obvious that the page was re-written to improve accessibility, so that more voters can understand the issues. Long paragraphs were shortened.

    The original page is a huge amount of text -- 5462 words on the page. This is like "War and Peace" for a web page. The new version only has 3319 words on the page and the text has been simplified.

    The average person reads around 200-250 WPM for fifth grade reading material. For technically detailed information (the earlier version of the webpage), the rate can drop to 70-80 words per minute.

    The first version had a large number of technical details and was extremely long. Assuming a generous 100 WPM for non-technical readers, it would have taken nearly an hour (54 minutes) to read. The new version is much less wordy and the technical details have been simplified a bit so if we assume a faster reading speed of at least 200 WPM, it will still take most people over 15 minutes to read.

    What Obama really should do is make the web page smaller still - to the 5 minutes-to-read range and then have an extended document like the original page that you can download to read over an hour or two if you want the technical details.

  54. Re:FP! by MrNaz · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yea, because of course, we don't want to make people spend more than five minutes doing something as inconsequential as choosing who gets to be the most powerful man on the planet.

    --
    I hate printers.
  55. Re:Vote with a bullet. by amabbi · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If you removed all lawyers and let all parties argue their own cases, you'd immediately see a drastic shift in power to the upper class and more educated, who would actually know the law, and have time to study and interpret it. The reason we have lawyers is so that EVERYONE has an expert on the law on their side.

    Nice sentiment, but sadly, the upper class already has the power. I'm sorry, but a poor working man who is wrongly accused of murder has little chance of finding a lawyer who will get him off, whereas... well, OJ Simpson. An immigrant family-owned business has no real legal discourse if the large real estate conglomerate that leases the storefront of the business decides to screw over the family.

    People talk about a health care disparity, which exists and must be fixed. There also exists a justice disparity that no one really seems to talk about. Given the proportion of politicians who made the practice of law their previous profession, I doubt this will ever change.

    And one point that continues to irk me about Obama. As a soon-to-be doctor, one of the biggest issues that I'm concerned with is health care reform. Absolutely recognizing the need for universal health care and health care reform, I worry that many of the proposed changes will lead to short-term cost savings at the expense of long-term innovation. Looking at Obama's health care plan, he blames many elements for the outrageous cost of health care today-- the heartless insurance companies, the wasteful hospitals, the greedy drug companies. What party does Obama not even mention?

    You guessed it.... the money-sucking lawyers. Coincidence?

  56. Official reply from Obama campaign by selfevident · · Score: 3, Informative

    From the campaign:

    We've been updating the entire website to ensure consistency across the pages. The full tech plan is still available on the page, so there is absolutely no substantive change to our policy -- folks who want more information can click to get our full plan. http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/issues/technology/Fact_Sheet_Innovation_and_Technology.pdf

  57. Yes, obviously an elitist by Mark_in_Brazil · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yes, Barack Obama, by mentioning arugula, has shown he is the elitist among the major party candidates.

    John McCain, on the other hand, is just chock-full of mavericky goodness and simple values, and isn't elitist at all, despite the fact that he and his wife own a private jet and 8-12 homes on 8 properties (McCain says he doesn't know... it must be hard to keep track), spent $273,000 on household employees last year, and THIS JUST IN: own 13 cars. Oh, and despite McCain's claims that he has only bought American cars all his life, those cars include a Honda, a Lexus, and a Volkswagen, and also in the family is the Prius he boasted about his daughter buying just last year when he was pandering to voters with different concerns.

    Oh, and Cindy McCain may have worn a $313,100 outfit on the first night of the Republican convention and said you just can't get around Arizona without a private plane, but trust the people who brought you the Iraq war: she's as down-to-Earth and "simple folk" as they come.

    Those "uppity" Obamas, with their one house, on which they got a better-than-average mortgage deal (gasp!) based on Obama's senate income and book proceeds, have one car for the family. And both Obamas paid for their education with student loans, with Barack, who was raised by a single mother and his grandparents, ending up as president of the Harvard Law Review. John McCain, the son and grandson of Navy Admirals, was practically the definition of a legacy admission at the U.S. Naval Academy.

    Yeah, that arugula comment really tells the whole story of who's an elitist.

    --
    "It is nice to know that the computer understands the problem. But I would like to understand it too." --Eugene Wigner