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Bringing Giant Tortoises Back From Extinction
fizzysister writes "The BBC reports that scientists at Yale are intending to resurrect an extinct species of Galapagos tortoise, the Geochelone elephantopus. Unfortunately, not in the style of Jurassic Park, so no tortoise-based theme parks just yet. They will, however, be using genetic profiling of living tortoises that carry some of the elephantopus genes, to select the most appropriate of these to mate and thus eventually (after a century or more) create a generation of 'pure' Geochelone elephantopus individuals."
any plans on training these resurrected giant tortoises in the art of Ninjitsu. What a gip.
Monstar L
If this interbreeding of existing species is successful, it begs the question:
Are the existing species really separate species, or are the merely subspecies or even just breeds of the same species?
The answer depends on the definition of species.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
I thought they were not supposed to appear for another few thousand years. They are obviously moving into the first experimental stages of their master plan ;)
I want my own giant tortoise for a pet!
Blar.
Too late, we already have the modern-day brick phone.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
100 years and how much money to bring back an extinct turtle? I just hope I'm around in 100 years for the great turtle project centennial unveiling. Of coure, they ARE turtles, did you think this would happen quickly?
Can someone explain the value of these giant tortioses in objective, real terms?
There are a few things that would be useful about bringing back an extinct tortoise.
For one, it allows the animal to reclaim its place in the ecosystem. I don't have information on what caused the extinction of this tortoise, but I know of certain mammals that are fond of killing slow-moving things. If the tortoise went extinct not by natural selection, then it may have left a void in its natural ecosystem that could have downstream effects on stability of the same.
Though perhaps more tangible is that some of these tortoises could live 150+ years. If we want to study aging and what mechanisms could prolong a healthy life, then something that lives extraordinarily long would be quite valuable. Of course we could study old trees, but we have more in common with other vertebrates.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
I imagine people will scream about "Playing God"(tm) in these circumstances. They, of course, say, "What a miracle" when they are brought back from what should have been a death by heart attack. Personally, I think small northern russian and canadian provinces could really have a boom if we'd bring back mastodons and such, selling the hunting rights. In my view, you're only "Playing God" if you're talking velociraptors and making your own artificial creepy stuff. I just can't see "Giant Tortoises go on rampage", unless they have jet packs and live in Tokyo.
meh
Nope, they don't run Linux, but they do have a shell which in this case is a tortoise/atmosphere interface. OK so it's hardware rather than software but it's suprising how much a tortoise and a computer have in common. If you've got a tired old Celeron like me, you'll even find they 'run' about as fast!
Smivs on the intertubes!
gct says one species, Geochelone elephantopus, with 14 different races or sub-species, three of which are believed to be extinct.
... it's alive and well.
So just to clarify, several races are extinct and this discusses bringing them back to life. The species itself though is not extinct
But the long intervals between generations mean that even if the project does start,
..it's usually fruit flies with them biologists.
Sounds like a tight schedule, they better get a move on.
it will not be concluding any time soon. A century ahead would be a fair bet.
The point? I'm going to guess that there are a few people that just simply would like to see these giant tortoises swimming around again. There are probably some people that would like to say "see, evolution DOES work"
There have been some hints that traits of those who survived past plagues could be used similarly, not through eugenics, but through gene therapy to improve mankind's overall situation with regard to retroviruses. Any experimentation in this regard could one day help to better mankind or repopulate parts of the world with food stocks that are more suited to the climate.
I'm not sure what Mastadon burgers taste like, but Fred and Barney seemed to like them, so if climate change makes that a more reliable feed stock for McD's I guess I'm okay with it. Closer to home, repopulating areas devastated by pollution or other natural disaster with a purpose bred animal which is similar/close to that which was lost in the catastrophe would be a good thing. Restock the pond with as close as we can get, let evolution do the rest.
There are animals that we would not like to see disappear. Odd creatures give us the ability to see how evolution has solved problems. See this TED talk http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/robert_full_on_animal_movement.html for reasons that we want to study odd little creatures, and perhaps even bring a few back to life from extinction.
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The portions of soup would be a lot smaller.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Do they run Linux?
Well, they do have a shell.
alias possession='chmod 666 satan && ls
Ever see William Hurt in the Dune miniseries? His acting was so wooden, he put trees to sleep.
I haven't. Was it anything like Jonathan Taylor Thomas in that movie or Seth Adkins in that TV movie or (shudder) Roberto Benigni in still another movie?
Giant tortoises are land dwelling animals. Having seen a few of them at Reptile Gardens, I really doubt that they could swim. The young ones are surprisingly quick though.
I'm curious why they are going for traditional cross breeding techniques instead of using the start of the art genetic manipulation.
the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
The definition of species from your primary or secondary education about critters that can breed is a gross simplification. (I pity if you heard it in college also.) That is one basis for determining a species. Others are:
Location, meaning these individuals could procreate with those, but they never travel far enough to do so (like across an ocean). Sometimes called "populations."
Morphology, i.e. color, patterns, size.
Habits, i.e. where they rest or what they eat.
Mating preferences can be based on all of the above. An example: finches that rest in trees and eat small seeds from succulent bushes tend to prefer the same, even though they can mate with finches that rest in rocks and eat larger seeds from weeds. These groups may live intermingled, they just don't choose mates that way. New chicks learn patterns from their parents, act that way as they age, and hang out with (mate) those who are similar. This is akin to humans marrying only folks of the same social class. Studies on the finches in the Galapagos show that nearly any "species" CAN mate with the others, they just don't.
The other large reason to define species is funding. More folks will donate to help the "Floreana tortoise" if it is called its own species, even though it is identical to the "Isabela tortoise" except for 1) the island they were/are on, and 2) a few genes. The rallying cry, "Restore the Floreana tortoise" is catchier than, "Move some tortoises and manage their breeding based on DNA."
The article mentions how tortoises may have been moved from Floreana to Isabela, but they don't mention the real causes of the extinction in the first place. The same whaling ships left goats on the islands to breed and create a population they can harvest meat from next time they visit. The goat population exploded. These goats eat the same bushes the tortoises eat, depriving them of food. The ships also left rats which ate their eggs. Over the past 10 years, eradication campaigns have wiped out the goats from almost all of the islands, and have eliminated rats from some of them. Now that the main causes of the extinctions have been (are are being) removed, efforts to reclaim the populations are starting. This is just one.
For more information, see http://www.galapagos.org/2008/ or look up "Lonesome George."
I reckon he has loost some spelling skills.
The rat is optional. There's now a book to train them. Just have your children and grandchildren teach them to read.
+1 parent for informative
"We don't even care that we don't care." /obscure?
Bear with me as I go a bit abstract, but /. is for nerds, right? Organisms are a kind of fixed point. a zygote with genome G implanted in an organism with womb (or egg, or, more generally, an environment of some sort) W gives rise to some organism O. O = f(G,W) where f is the 'development' function. But W is itself a function of the organism. So we really have O = f(G,W(O)). O is a fixed point of the function \x -> f(G,W(x)). But it's not at all clear this equation has unique solutions.
Just so you know I haven't gone off the rails consider the example of Ken Thompsons's famous paper. You might imagine that compiling the source of a C compiler with the compiler it produces is guaranteed to give you the 'right thing'. It's exactly analogous, the 'development' process has multiple fixed points.
So it's not 100% clear to me that selectively breeding an organism with the same genome gives rise to the same organism. It depends on how much the state stored in the environment W contributes to O.
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
how exactly do you get an extinct animal back by interbreeding its modern day ancestors, clearly you aren't going to get the exact same traits?
I will care about non-native species arguments as soon as you exterminate all the pigeons and Rattus Norwegicus in North America and rabbits in Australia.
Thanks,
-- Terry
They are working on porting Linux for Turtles to run on Tortoises.
A successful example is this one, to "re-create" a quagga -- part zebra/part horse that went extinct in 1883. http://www.quaggaproject.org/