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Complaints Pour In After Digital TV Test
djupedal writes "'Even if all goes smoothly, next February's digital television shift is likely to generate hundreds of thousands of complaints from television viewers around the country.
A major problem during a test run in Wilmington, N.C., was the inability of over-the-air viewers to receive new digital signals, according to figures collected after the test.'"
If there is anything that is likely to end the world, it might be when all the country folk lose their TV just long enough for their addiction to take over and........
I personally will be sitting outside Best Buy to watch the festivities begin in Feb.
A major problem during a test run in Wilmington, N.C., was the inability of over-the-air viewers to receive new digital signals
Yeah, that is kind of a major problem.
I'm sure this was the intended effect posited in a board room somewhere.
The "over the air" hold outs will see how bad life without cable or satellite and will have no choice but to buy a subscription TV service or else they cannot watch Dancing with the Stars anymore.
Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, START
I guess this opens the door for a new Survivor series - Survivor: DTV
TV viewers in the lowest age category dropped by 50% in the last year. Netcraft and Nielson confirm it, TV is dying.
Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
Propagation curves(PDF warning) for Analog and Digital broadcasts and a do-it-yourself calculator here.
I've already tried using the digital TV receiver in my area (Ventura County, CA) and I only get 3 stations that all seem to be related. The major stations are supposed to already be transmitting a digital signal but I can't get any of them (ABC, NBC, etc).
I guess I'll miss out on all the car chases that are followed by news helicopters and the witty news anchor banter. Oh well, somehow I'll get by.
"Meaningless!, Meaningless!" says the Teacher. "Utterly meaningless!"
A hillbilly without his wrestling shows is a very dangerous individual. Well-armed and high on crystal meth, they are nigh unstoppable. The only way to save ourselves is to hole up at our universities and libraries. They're the only places hillbillies will never go.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Ya, it's rough. I mean, people have ALWAYS had TV to stare at for entertainment.
So when you said "I have a solution" what you really meant was "I have a really high opinion of myself."
Similes are like metaphors
"but I think the TV industry (whoever they may be) would be running a whole lot of PSAs on what is going to happen and how to make sure your TV still works."
Yes, they are.
There are commercials on almost every channel, many done by the local news stations and tons by cable and satellite companies that are educating people about the switchover, what they'll need to do and where to go to get more info. Obviously in the cable and satellite cases the solution is buying cable or satellite, though some are surprisingly honest. "You'll either have to buy a converter box OR you can buy our wonderful product and it'll be so much better!" Wouldn't have expected them to even mention the converter box option.
I wonder how many of these people who are complaining about poor digital reception also get poor analog reception.
With analog, poor reception will give you snow, and a fuzzy picture. You can still make out most of the image, but it looks like crap. With digital, poor reception will give you choppy video and pixelation.
Anybody want my mod points?
This has to be one of the biggest waste of tax dollars I have ever seen.
It's not tax dollars. The government made $Billions by selling off bandwidth to private telco monopolies, breaking my TV in the process. The coupons take some of those *sale proceeds*, NOT tax dollars, to partially compensate me for the hassle and expense of having to fix my TV.
Prediction 1: Sales of coat hangers will soar as people build their own antennas http://uhfhdtvantenna.blogspot.com/
Prediction 2: Sales of coat hangers will see a second spike as people realize they needed metal coat hangers.
The world is made by those who show up for the job.
What exactly is alleged benefit of switching to digital anyway? This is Slashdot, so I would think somebody here would know. Is there a real technical benefit? What reason, real or not, convinced the government to force this switch?
To show my frustration with this, when February 18 comes around I plan on dumping a bunch of old TVs I have by the dumpster. I encourage anyone else who has an old TV that needs to go out to wait until that day and do the same.
We will see additional complaints once this is rolled out to areas with more geographic diversity.
Ghosting (an effect of multipath reception, where the tv receives the signal more than once) is an annoyance with analog sets and occurs in areas with serious terrain, skyscrapers, or airplanes flying overhead (none of which really affects the Wilmington market). With a digital set, it can cause a complete loss of signal as the logic hardware may not know onto which signal to lock. Reviews online indicate that a good directional antenna and a quality digital converter box can eliminate those issues.
The way that this transition will occur muddies the waters further. Every station is broadcasting digital TV in the UHF band right now; post-transition, many stations will revert to broadcasting digital TV in the VHF band. Though we have the opportunity to read reviews for which antenna-receiver solution works best for UHF digital TV signals, people will only have the opportunity to read reviews on how this works with VHF after the transition.
Finally, the inexpensive converter boxes eligible for the coupon are of varying quality. There are some that have been recognized as excellent (The Zenith, the Channel Master, the Echostar), there are some that are awful (the Digital Stream, the GE).
You must watch even less TV than I do. The only TV I've watched in the past 6 months was the Olympics on NBC, and I saw a dozen announcements being done by the local NBC station about digital over-the-air. They hammered on it. I haven't watched any TV since the Olympics ended, but I'm sure they're still at it. The over-the-air stations have a heavily vested interest in making sure every single broadcast-only viewer has a converter box. If they lose viewership because people didn't get converters, their commercial advertisement rates drop, and they make less money. As another post pointed out, the rate of TV viewing has dropped 50% in the lower age categories, with no signs of recovery. They're already hemorrhaging viewers. They can't afford to lose Grandpa too, now that his grandson is a loss.
Marx had it wrong.
*TV* is the opiate of the masses.
Any my crystal ball says if they turn of the TV,
there will be riots in the streets.
I'll bet the politicians blink (Hi, Sara!) and analog stays on the air.
It's life or death! Look at the correlation between life expectancy and TV viewership! Fact is, without TV our life expectancy would be right back where it was in the 40s. God help us if they shut down radio, too - I don't want to go back to the turn of the century here.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
I always link to this onion "story" when I see such a comment :
Area Man Constantly Mentioning He Doesn't Own A Television
I live in Wilmington, NC and receive all the stations with an indoor antenna, a two bay bow tie with reflector. It is an old model once carried by Radio Shack. I think Channel Master still makes them. Likely a lot of the problem is that two of the stations moved from VHF to UHF, and I haven't found a decent indoor UHF antenna for sale in town.
Three of the stations are transmitting from a tall tower at Winnabow, NC, about 15 miles from downtown Wilmington. The ABC affiliate is on top at about 2000ft. I don't know where the NBC and Fox antennas are, but those stations are running fairly low power last I knew. The CBS affiliate, which converted from a LP license, is somewhat farther away, at Riegelwood, NC, but it is watchable, although not quite as strong. The PBS station is still transmitting both analog and digital; analog from Winnabow, and digital from Delco, NC. They appear to have the strongest digital signal here, even from somewhat farther away. They also transmit four streams during the day and three during prime time when the HD stream is operating.
One problem I did note, and could never solve, is that an Element 19in receiver cannot decode the audio from the ABC station. After a lot of flailing around and calls to the station, the importer and the FCC, I finally gave up and traded the set for a different brand. This seems to be a problem with all instances of that model, but not to larger screened models by the same manufacturer.
My parents house is really not in the country, as its only 10 minutes from a county with 1 million people, but there is a hill just big enough right in front of their house that it completely cuts off all digital broadcast signal from the city. Analog signal, however, survives bouncing around the atmosphere well enough to make it to their house largely intact with just a little ghosting. I imagine this is going to be the case for a lot of people.
Personally, I've been against this forced shift to digital only broadcasting ever since making the move to satellite from cable. Given how touchy satellite service is in even the slightest amount of rain, I can only imagine just how touchy some the local stuff will become to any form of interference. And unlike the satellite stuff, the local stuff is only being obtained from a single source.
For example, what happens in a state of emergency where many of the population can't receive a complete digital signal as disaster is bearing down on them? All of those efforts to warn people ahead of time will be for nothing... especially for those who can't afford to upgrade to the fancy digital converters.
Second, what becomes of the electronic waste that will be generated when TVs lacking the capability of being upgraded (especially portable sets) are suddenly trashed at the same time? Has there been a plan put in place specifically to collect these obsolete sets that won't involve them being dumped onto a 3rd world country?
Finally, there's the question of the intent behind this transition. Does it even have anything to do with improving quality at all, or is it about getting all forms of broadcast into a digital form so that it can be controlled, monitored and classified by external means? Are these "converters" going to phoning homing in some manner to tell some authority figure what exactly we're watching and when as a means of monitoring our interests and assess us as potential threats?
I'd like to be wrong on a lot of this, but for the moment, the possibilities are hard to ignore.
8==8 Bones 8==8
Even if they don't own shoes or a flush toilet, hillbillies ALWAYS have satellite.
If giving up a habit that is proven to make people stupid, obedient, and ignorant makes me an elitist then I guess sign me up.
No, choosing to to give up TV doesn't make you elitist. Ridiculing those who don't make the same choice as you does.
... but for us, since getting a digital TV converter box we are able to pick up many more channels then before. In fact, with analog there was really only two or three channels we got that were watchable. Now we get far more channels, all of which look perfect, plus digital exclusive variants of some of those channels, such as two 24-hour local weather channels and two new PBS channels, one with different programming in english and one with different programming all in spanish.
The one real issue I have with it is the handling of 16:9 HD broadcasts. The converter box has the option, and it's on by default, to obey what the program tells it do with regard to whether to letterbox, zoom (aka crop) or stretch to 4:3, but the programs don't seem to be using this intelligently, often having 4:3 shows letterboxed anyway, for example, plus the converter box has a bug where after a while it just starts stretching everything, regardless of what the program tells it to do. In the end you end up having to make the decision yourself and manually switch between letterbox or zoomed. It's a nuisance, and probably one that most people wouldn't know what to do about anyway. They'd just end getting everything stretched (ack!)
--- What?
Yes the quality is better when you get a good signal but most of the time I don't get that good of a signal. Unlike analog TV where I could still watch and listen to a crappy quality picture, with digital TV I either lose the whole signal or the audio doesn't work. The audio going out in the most common thing it seems.
Plus wind/rain and other stuff severely affects the quality.
Overall it's total shit. If they want to get rid of analog OTA TV then they might as well have forced everyone onto cable or satellite because OTA digital TV blows.
the article is digital vs. analog, not HD vs SD. There is already HD over analog if your TV can handle it. The thing going away is the analog broadcast spectrum that the FCC is auctioning off for other use. This is not a forced upgrade in all of your equipment, this is a new decoder that can interpret ones and zeroes, and is much MUCH cheaper than replacing all of your gear to view HD.
Being angry and offtopic and slurring names of retailers is easily seen as trolling .
I consider myself to be technically competent and quite familiar with video protocols... especially digital video formats and transmission requirements.
I also live in a MSA that has over 140,000 people living in it, even though the Neilson company doesn't consider it big enough for classifying it as an independent television market. Yes, I know that there are markets much smaller than this, but it doesn't matter.
The point is, in spite of the fact that I was able to tune in over 10 television stations with the analog signals... most of them quite clearly... I can't pick up a single digital television channel. That by itself isn't so awful other than the fact that the local analog signal has been shut off... at the beginning of this month (September 1st). The city I live in has "officially" already gone through the transition to digital television. I am serious here too... I can't pick up a single channel that even remotely works.
There are some transmitters in a nearby state (about 60 miles away from where I live) that are still broadcasting an analog signal. However, they are about to turn off that signal in about two weeks. Well, I guess I have a good collection of DVDs that I've been buying over the years, and now that most of the decent television series are going onto DVD as well, I can just buy them instead of watching the broadcast television.
What a way to "save" the television industry!
Yes, I have access to things like DirectTV, cable television networks, and other such nonsense. I have my own reasons for not wanting to access broadcast commercial television in such a manner. The point is that it doesn't work!
Oh... about the silly coupon program for the converter boxes. I asked for a coupon back in June... and it never came. My wife (without letting me know first) requested an additional coupon which finally came.... about a month after the switch to digital television. The converter box is about what I was expecting, basically a piece of cheap consumer junk that is completely incompatible with all of the video equipment I have... other than I guess a television signal can get through. My wife hates the thing even more than I do, but at least the FCC can sit back and feel like they have taken care of a family like mine with such a wonderful "improvement" in the technology.
Yeah, right. Improvement. At least I can still pick up gamma rays from the Big Bang on my old analog television, which is as exciting as watching mud dry.
You insensitive clod, my entire <SFX>kerchunk</SFX> album collection is on <SFX>kerchunk</SFX> 8-Track tape. Why, I even have that handy little <SFX>kerchunk</SFX> cassette converter so I could play <SFX>kerchunk</SFX> in my '78 Cougar.
You know, I still have the little plastic discs for my 45's as well.
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong fix.
I think most antenna designs fall into the category of public domain:
http://www.arrl.org/catalog/?category=Antennas%2C+Transmission+Lines+%26+Propagation
The Silver Sensor, which is now being made by Philips, is not a panacea. I live in a neighborhood where there are lots and lots of multi-story apartment buildings. I live in an area ringed around with mountains...it's the Valley, after all. All this conspires to cause what broadcast engineers call Multipath Interference. Basically the signals are bouncing off multiple objects and careening around like billiard balls. So I get weak signals, "drifting" signals, and worse.
The best way to deal with Multipath is to have a large outdoor antenna, or better yet, multiple antennae which will cancel out a lot of the interference if placed correctly. However, if you live in an apartment building, good luck getting your landlord to consent to putting up an antenna farm on your roof. Sure, there are probably ancient '60s vintage antennae up there on the roof, but they haven't been used in decades and are in sad shape.
This gets worse in an urban setting. Big city, lots of big skyscrapers = digital broadcast TV FAIL.
At least in rural areas that are mostly flatland you have a fighting chance of getting a decent digital broadcast TV signal. All you have to do is make sure your antenna is high enough to get a line-of-sight to your local transmitters.
This is the dirty little secret of digital broadcast TV. Multipath is going to KILL digital broadcast TV in heavily populated areas with large buildings. It's also going to KILL digital broadcast TV for people in mountainous regions.
The vaunted Cliff Effect is not the whole story, either: if you have a marginal signal that is strong enough for the digital converter box to lock onto, but not enough to really pump out enough bits, you wind up with what I call the "Max Headroom Effect." The picture pixellates, the sound stutters like a CD with a skip, and you are left with something even worse than no picture.
Basically those $40 gift cards are a boondoggle...welfare for Chinese electronics companies and American and European holding companies that subcontract to said Chinese electronics companies. The digital converter boxen are not enough: you need to have adequate antenna or antennae. Of course, the gift cards could have included a rebate for approved antennae. But that would have meant the FCC would have had to dig deeper and spread even more welfare to electronics companies. So this half a loaf really is worse than nothing, because the taxpayers have to bend and spread and get ready for the gov't HOT BEEF INJECTION. If the FCC hadn't sent the gift cards out, it would have had the same results.
Instead of trying to broadcast digital signals over the air, the US should have handled the digital transition this way. On February 17th, 2009, BROADCAST TV IS GOING DOWN. PERIOD. END OF STORY. Go to your local cable company or satellite service and request "Lifeline Digital Tier" if you are low income. (you might have to present evidence of this for means-testing) The cable companies and satellite companies would have to offer a low-cost package as a condition of keeping their franchise. This would free up the craved broadcast frequencies, low-income citizens would keep their TV reception, and a lot of valuable real estate on mountaintops would be freed up for other wireless uses.
This is only the first signs of the coming DTV trainwreck. This is almost like the added consequence of alcohol prohibition coinciding with the Great Depression...TV is not necessarily a necessity, but entertainment is a nicety of living that provides a little cushion and a little escapism in bad times. Prohibition made the Great Depression psychologically worse, if only a little. The DTV debacle will coincide with the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. But hey, shit happens, right?
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
The problem is this... there *is* HD over analog. It's your component video inputs. That's what berashith is talking about. HD thought analog over-the-air broadcast is not available in the States. The problem is media outlets need to explain what an ATSC tuner is and how to get one if you don't already have one. I work for a TV station and it is a daily battle with viewers and the powers that be to straighten it out.
Some people like the wallpaper.
You just made Jesus cry like 5 times over.
Similes are like metaphors
Not the complaints, people love to do that!
But, that people are having a harder time getting the digital signal.
I used to work for the engineer of a radio station. A year or so ago I went back to visit. He showed me their new shiny new digital transmitter. It is putting out a small fraction of the wattage of the analog one into the same antenna. (sorry I don't remember the numbers). Anyway, their digital signal now has a wider reception area than their analog one!
I wonder what is making TV so different...
I see so many bad experiences on here that I just have to chime in with my own personal experience.
I filed the forms, got my 2 coupons, and bought the cheapest 2 boxes I could find, at an online store for $43 each, shipped.
I live in metropolitan Seattle, ground floor of a 2 story building in a hilly area, and my TV antenna is an unamplified Radioshack bunny-ear antenna, sitting on the windowsill.
Without tweaking the antenna direction, I get all 6 channels that were relatively snow-free on analog, with a drastic improvement in picture quality. With the help of the on-screen signal strength meter, I can adjust the antenna to pull in the 2 other channels which had heavy snow on analog, now completely snow-free. And I now have on-screen TV listings!
I also get 2 spanish-language channels which I never noticed before.
All the UHF stations which were unwatchable before, are still unwatchable.
2 problems I have found: The proximity of the antenna to my CRT TV really matters. It seems like the TV causes a lot of interference, If I get the antenna with a yard or so of the TV, the picture goes away very quickly. On analog, I don't recall having this trouble.
The other issue is that if I leave my converter box powered on for over 48 hours (i.e. if I don't turn the box off when I turn the TV off), it loses signal on it's own, apparently from overheating. The Artec box I have is the cheapest box I know of, and the case has no vent holes. Simply remembering to turn the box off when I turn the TV off keeps everything happy, although it means that the program-guide takes a few seconds to update when I turn it back on.
Legalize recreational marijuana. Seriously.
I'll probably watch the season premiere of The Office online tomorrow since the local digital transmitter has been down the past few days.
I'm in North Carolina, but not in Wilmington. Maybe those annoyed folks down there haven't been actually watching TV, because it's been almost impossible to avoid the multiple daily commercials about the switch, the incessant crawls across the screen, and the incessant news stories. Maybe these are the same people who walk out of a flooded house and complain that no one warned them about the hurricane.
Per local press, the largest proportion of complaints were directed against a single station whose digital coverage area is smaller than it's analog umbrella was. If true, then with or without a converter, those folks won't be able to watch that channel.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
So the problem with digital is that it's digital. You either get the signal or you don't! With analog (like when growing up without cable) you could at least watch and still hear a fuzzy show from a distant station or if the over-the-air station was being attenuated by rain/interference/sunspots/etc. With digital you either get a great signal, or you get garbage and annoying audio blips and squeaks that make the show unwatchable. Those in low-lying areas without a proper antenna that could at least watch fuzzy TV will be in the dark since their fancy new digital converter box can't get enough data to buffer up the stream. Oh well, maybe we'll all get outside and do something besides being couch potatoes....