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Windows 7 Trades Email and Photo Apps For Downloadable Ones
arcticstoat writes "Microsoft has said that it plans to remove a lot of the standard apps from Windows 7 in order to make the new OS 'cleaner.' Among the apps for the chop are Windows Mail, Windows Photo Gallery and Windows Movie Maker, which will no longer be included with the operating system as standard.
Instead, equivalent versions of the apps will be available from Microsoft's Windows Live download service as optional free downloads, much like the new BETA versions of the apps that Windows Live offers today." Meanwhile, jammag writes that "tech pundit Mike Elgan posits that the rushed-to-market Windows 7 — due in 2010, now being beta released this October — may in fact merely be Vista with new packaging.
Is that the new Mojave thing we've been hearing about?
I rather like the idea of having an OS with as little on it as possible.
That way I can add what I see fit, much like the Server OS.
Hey it's a step in the right direction.
The greatest revenge in life is massive success.
As long as they make sure that OEMs include some. Any, doesn't matter if its Outlook, Windows Live Mail, or whatever third party or open source app you want... Else customers will not be too happy out of the box.
However, historically, with other things that were not included (like, let say, anti-virus for a while), the total trash that OEMs put on it (because they're paid to) really sucks ass, even if there are free alternatives that are really, really good.
Customers are not going to be happy...
Not RTFA is bad enough, but apparently you didn't even bother to read the summary.
Similes are like metaphors
Among the apps for the chop are Windows Mail...
Er... I guess you don't see it this way, Microsoft, but I sure as hell always thought that checking your e-mail was basic computer functionality in this day and age. But hey, what do I know?
Microsoft can talk about a "cleaner" OS all they want, but watch them change their tune when people scream about not being able to check their e-mail on a new PC.
"16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
That would be newsworthy!
You realize that Microsoft got in trouble for that right? Given the current climate it's okay for Apple to do it legally but if Microsoft included all the apps that Apple does then they'd be back in court the next day.
Well, web-based email has the benefit of being accessible from wherever you're at. That's a huge advantage -- when I'm visiting my family, it's nice to be able to check my email.
Plus, it's not like you can't use your favorite POP client to connect to gmail and read your mail in whatever client you like.
Cheers
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Reinstalled your XP anytime recently? There's a basic version installed with the OS, assuming you didn't customize it with nLite.
Excellent idea.
It's about the training of the consumer to accept upselling to subscription based services.
load "$",8,1
Well, if it's Vista minus the bloatware, DRM and huge resource requirements... it might be actually a decent operating system.
Interesting that Microsoft appears to be actually listening to their users over Vista. That, or they're panicking and being forced to...
Check out my sci-fi book "Lacuna" at http://goo.gl/MVxX8
I can already see Windows7 being shipped without all that useless bloatware ...
... and having it all installed again after selecting all "important" "security" updates ...
and no matter what Microsoft does I'm going to bitch and complain about how they should/shouldn't have done it years ago and that Linux is far superior.
Partly right. Microsoft didn't get prosecuted for merely being a monopoly or for bundling apps with their OS. They were prosecuted for abusing their monopoly to force competitors out of the market with unsavory tactics including threatening their own hardware partners. Intel wanted to develop a faster, cleaner Java compiler. Microsoft called a meeting insinuating that they were going to favor AMD in their development if they did. The made sure that their OEMs understood that to keep their OEMs prices, the OEMs would not pre-load Netscape onto their machines, etc.
For Apple to do the same thing, they would have to threaten BestBuy and Fry's that loading Picasa2 would be not tolerated and the like. Also Apple would make it nearly impossible to uninstall Mail or iPhoto. Right now to do that is the same as any other app: delete it. Now you can't fully uninstall QuickTime as some of the basic libraries of QuickTime are used in their Quartz rendering engine. But nothing stops you from using another movie player.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
A few months ago I specifically asked how will Windows 7 differ from Vista to a friend of mine who happens to be a Project Manager in the Windows team. He obviously couldn't go into too many details, but admitted that the changes are "evolutionary", not "revolutionary", so it's NOT going to be anything like the 3.1 to 95 or XP to Vista transitions. It's more like Windows 95 to 98 (my friend confirmed my analogy was appropriate).
You can call it repackaging if you want, and it may not even be worth an upgrade, but it could work well enough for people to move on from XP. There's a chance, after all Windows 2008 is better than Windows 2003, and mostly because it's more nimble and modular when you install it.
The cookie told me to.
Except minwin was chopped from Windows 7-- and instead they're going with an 'evolution' of the NT-series Vista kernel.
Outlook is great unless you use IMAP. Microsoft purposely made IMAP support suck. It can't even be attributed to incompetence it sucks so bad. I mean crossing out deleted mails and not only not hiding them, but not moving them to the deleted folder? Sending sent mail to the LOCAL sent folder? No thanks.
When I recommend the Linux distribution I use, one of the things I promote is that:
By this, I mean that you can get set up and ideally have a complete working system right away. Browse the web with a strong browser, set up your email right away, view PDFs (with a fast PDF viewer), listen to music, write documents, spreadsheets, etc. Now, in practice some things don't work right away, but for that I blame general difficulty of installing any operating system (driver issues etc.) and licensing issues (goddamn MP3 license). I think installing an OS will always be a PITA, just on varying levels. Licensing is getting better with more distros offering paid legal licenses for MP3.
Anyway, what I'm getting to is that I feel a complete OS offers a solid platform on which to build. From my experience, casual users are satisfied with the included apps in a modern Linux distro save for maybe a better music player for the music buffs or better photo management for digital camera users. I think a minimal OS translates more to a Slack or Gentoo approach, which I doubt the everyday user wants. This also encourages OEMs to put their crap into EVEN MORE basic uses.
I think the association of Windows and bloat comes not from included MS apps (maybe not including Movie Maker), but instead from OEMs putting their shit on these computers. Good for Microsoft for making ANY change, but I think the real reduction in bloat happens at the installer level, not the OS producer. Let me know when a pig sprouts wings and the OEMs start putting less shit on their builds.
Not only did this ship with XP, as others have noted, but you couldn't remove it.
When I found it on a work computer I had inherited, I tried to remove it. Uninstall? Not listed. Windows Setup? Not listed. Ok, Delete the directory. Success! Five minutes later when I was looking for other things to clear off, I found the directory had been recreated in C:\Program Files\, complete with files! I have no idea where they came from, either, as the computer was not on the network and did not have the Windows CD in (or the install files on the hard drive).
IIRC, when Movie Maker 2 was available on the Windows Update site, there was a note that you wouldn't be able to uninstall it.
End of line..
It's not just that they included functionality, but how they went about doing it. MS not only used their power to bully hardware manufacturers (as another comment reply noted), but they also tend to intertwine their apps so thoroughly with the OS that even a savvy user would have a hard time removing them.
Apple ships OSX with a web browser and a mail client, but if you never want to see them again, it's a simple matter of going into your apps folder and dragging them to the garbage. During the MS anti-trust mess, there was lots of back and forth about whether or not IE could be unbundled from Windows without making the OS inoperable.
I don't really care what sort of stuff MS decides to ship with windows, as long as it's no harder to remove than any other piece of software, and as long as the OS doesn't repeatedly pester me about reinstalling or switching back to the original MS stuff.
One time I threw a brick at a duck.
I didn't even read the *title, so I'll just cover all my bases:
Steve Ballmer, the RIAA, Sarah Palin, and software patents are evil and must be *stopped!
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
Another satisfied Win9x user I see =)
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
I think the old error message ABORT, RETRY, FAIL? pretty much sums up Vista.
But it's not vista Beta 3 as much as it named after the movie SEVEN.
it's got the seven deadly sins including sloth and gluttony.
And at the end, you'll with it was your head in the box.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
NT6 *IS* MinWin. Why is it so hard to understand??
http://shippingseven.blogspot.com/2008/05/windows-7-wont-have-compact-minwin.html
Comparing Lotus Notes to Mail.app is like comparing a multitool to a pocket knife. Yes, Notes is insanely bloated, but it's mail, groupware, an office suite, and app framework all rolled together.
"I think an etch-a-sketch with an ethernet port would beat IE7 in web standards compliance."
has a good ring to it.
First, much more than just thye UI changed. All the bitching and moaning that goes on here about the supposed massive driver incompatibilies belies that claim. Second, they never claimed MinWin was going to be the kernel in Windows 7. That was pure media speculation. I know giving MSFT a fair shake isn't popular here, but they most certainly did not cut the release time while replacing the kernel.
> In other words, place an arbitrary and unnecessary choice barrier between the user and the Internet
Great bit of Newspeak there.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
This sounds like a great boost for Thunderbird since Windows is no longer offering a mail client. Good idea. Nice way to promote Thunderbird.
Not only did this ship with XP, as others have noted, but you couldn't remove it.
Well, actually you can, but you have to fiddle with some obscure (and hidden) inf file in order to do so.
As i'm a really nice guy, i found a ms kb about it: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/223182
Talk about informative (nudge, nudge)...
What planet are you from? The EU Commission's primary arguments were: 1) Bundled Media player hurts competition and 2) the monopoly of Windows on the desktop requires full documentation of proprietary server protocols, regardless of server market share.
In other words, bundling and monopoly position are precisely why they've been prosecuted recently!
Oh, the irony. You do realize you just summarized Microsoft's losing 1998 argument about IE, right?
Hell, Windows itself is optional.
Other than this text, there is no discernible information contained in this sig.
"Does Windows 7 have lower system requirements re RAM, CPU speed and Hard Drive space to operate satisfactorily with all features enabled?"
If the answer to any of these questions is 'no" then it isn't worth buying
I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
I didn't even read the *title, so I'll just cover all my bases
You can cover them all you want, but you can't cover the fact that they are belong to us.
Now you can't fully uninstall QuickTime as some of the basic libraries of QuickTime are used in their Quartz rendering engine. But nothing stops you from using another movie player.
Careful, your argument could come back to bite:
Now you can't fully uninstall Internet Explorer as some of the basic libraries of Internet Explorer are used in their operating system rendering engine. But nothing stops you from using another web browser.
( Redundancy is ) ^ n
OSX is a lot like Windows in the web browser aspect. Safari depends on Webkit, and Webkit is closely tied into the operating system. You can certainly delete Safari, just as you can delete iexplore.exe and its associated icons, but in both cases the underlying rendering engine remains on the comuter.