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Windows 7 Trades Email and Photo Apps For Downloadable Ones
arcticstoat writes "Microsoft has said that it plans to remove a lot of the standard apps from Windows 7 in order to make the new OS 'cleaner.' Among the apps for the chop are Windows Mail, Windows Photo Gallery and Windows Movie Maker, which will no longer be included with the operating system as standard.
Instead, equivalent versions of the apps will be available from Microsoft's Windows Live download service as optional free downloads, much like the new BETA versions of the apps that Windows Live offers today." Meanwhile, jammag writes that "tech pundit Mike Elgan posits that the rushed-to-market Windows 7 — due in 2010, now being beta released this October — may in fact merely be Vista with new packaging.
Is that the new Mojave thing we've been hearing about?
I rather like the idea of having an OS with as little on it as possible.
That way I can add what I see fit, much like the Server OS.
Hey it's a step in the right direction.
The greatest revenge in life is massive success.
As long as they make sure that OEMs include some. Any, doesn't matter if its Outlook, Windows Live Mail, or whatever third party or open source app you want... Else customers will not be too happy out of the box.
However, historically, with other things that were not included (like, let say, anti-virus for a while), the total trash that OEMs put on it (because they're paid to) really sucks ass, even if there are free alternatives that are really, really good.
Customers are not going to be happy...
Not RTFA is bad enough, but apparently you didn't even bother to read the summary.
Similes are like metaphors
It's great that Microsoft wants to trim down their OS, but Mail and Photo applications seem like pretty basic apps to me. I'm glad Mac OS X comes with (the excellent) Mail.app and iPhoto. Then again, they're both a lot nicer than the Windows standard applications. So maybe it's a good decision by Microsoft to trim these after all, so people can download Thunderbird and Picasa or whatever. Why do I care anyway, I haven't used Windows in 4 years :)
I haven't used windows mail since I set up a small nt4 network for a company who refused to buy an email server back in '99.
Windows Movie Maker
What version of Windows did that ship with? I don't recall seeing that as a standard feature before... To say nothing of whether or not I think such a program deserves to be categorized as a "standard application" for an operating system.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Among the apps for the chop are Windows Mail...
Er... I guess you don't see it this way, Microsoft, but I sure as hell always thought that checking your e-mail was basic computer functionality in this day and age. But hey, what do I know?
Microsoft can talk about a "cleaner" OS all they want, but watch them change their tune when people scream about not being able to check their e-mail on a new PC.
"16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
That would be newsworthy!
Well, web-based email has the benefit of being accessible from wherever you're at. That's a huge advantage -- when I'm visiting my family, it's nice to be able to check my email.
Plus, it's not like you can't use your favorite POP client to connect to gmail and read your mail in whatever client you like.
Cheers
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Excellent idea.
Whoa vista with the name changed to windows 7. I wonder if this will trick corporate into upgrading..
...users complaining that MS adds too much to their OS, they're listening? Bull!!!
Can I bum a sig?
It's about the training of the consumer to accept upselling to subscription based services.
load "$",8,1
Mike Elgan doesn't know what he's talking about. Microsoft has been discussing the significant kernel changes in MinWin for more than a year now. It's a _huge_ technological difference, biggest since 98 ->L xp.
StoneCypher is Full of BS
I think the motivation there is to stuff the OS with download links so that people go to Live.com and download this crud from there instead. This is typical for people who have never offered any software for download and install from their web site. The harsh reality is that only a few percent of users will download, and out of those who do, not all will install. So they'll see a very temporary blip followed by people just going to Google instead. If I have to download, I might as well download Picasa and Thunderbird instead.
Downloadable version instead of pre-packaged, you know..... You can still get the same thing, you just have to take the extra step to download it... and if you are in a situation where you can download email, you can download the client, as well. :)
If the final product of a redesign of an unfavorably viewed operating system has it's e-mail client be written in such a way that it's seen as bloat, you need to seriously reconsider your design philosophy. How hard could it be Microsoft, make the applications in a way that does NOT mix their files and settings into the operating system, has all the files stored in one folder (per application), and uses no registry settings what so ever. Then it won't be bloat, because it's merely existence on the system will have no affect on total performance. Lead the way to proper application development while making it easy for other developers to do so too and sometime in the future shut off the old way of doing things.
I honestly don't understand why they aren't doing that.
Burn Hollywood Burn
Yes, Microsoft was likely forced to do so because of the many lawsuits that were brought against them for bundling software. It would be a huge disadvantage for them to leave this software out, as it only increases the chances of the user downloading a competing product. Why should people go download Windows Mail over Thunderbird?
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
Well, if it's Vista minus the bloatware, DRM and huge resource requirements... it might be actually a decent operating system.
Interesting that Microsoft appears to be actually listening to their users over Vista. That, or they're panicking and being forced to...
Check out my sci-fi book "Lacuna" at http://goo.gl/MVxX8
I can already see Windows7 being shipped without all that useless bloatware ...
... and having it all installed again after selecting all "important" "security" updates ...
and no matter what Microsoft does I'm going to bitch and complain about how they should/shouldn't have done it years ago and that Linux is far superior.
Sure, when you're stuck on a windows box with time to kill, there's always web games if it's got an internet connection and a browser, but I like being able to assume that I'll always have Minesweeper and FreeCell to waste my time.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
A few months ago I specifically asked how will Windows 7 differ from Vista to a friend of mine who happens to be a Project Manager in the Windows team. He obviously couldn't go into too many details, but admitted that the changes are "evolutionary", not "revolutionary", so it's NOT going to be anything like the 3.1 to 95 or XP to Vista transitions. It's more like Windows 95 to 98 (my friend confirmed my analogy was appropriate).
You can call it repackaging if you want, and it may not even be worth an upgrade, but it could work well enough for people to move on from XP. There's a chance, after all Windows 2008 is better than Windows 2003, and mostly because it's more nimble and modular when you install it.
The cookie told me to.
The only thing that would save it is if they make the DRM stuff an optional module you have to download.
I read the internet for the articles.
That'll save me -- and likely many people -- the trouble of having to get the chainsaw and hack Outlook Express out of the thing, and installing something like Thunderbird. Of course that'll be about 10 years from now; I'm just today starting to transition my main desktop machine over to XP this week.
I'd be surprised if Windows 7 really was a huge re-working of the OS. It seems like they are following the same path they did when they released Windows 98. 98 looked and felt almost identical to 95, but had enough improvements that it made people want to switch.
Not only would it appease various legal observers by following the instructions given to them by courts, it would be the right thing to do.
All that would be needed in its place would be "select the browser of your choice" followed by a menu which would include MSIE, Firefox, Opera, Safari or any of the others that don't come to mind.
I think you should try speaking slower to him. He thinks Outlook Express^W^WWindows Mail is a good mail client, after all. (Now, MS fanboys, be careful here....I actually *like* Outlook (the real deal) -- as long as it's set up sanely (i.e., Security Zone is set to 'Restricted sites') and the Exchange server has good antivirus and antispam filtering -- and actually use Outlook when I have to use Windows.)
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Leaner can be better and I'm all for not having all kinds of pointless apps in my OS installation, but I hope they think about what's necessary a little harder than they did when deciding to remove the telnet client from the default install of Vista.
How about putting in some more useful utilities and maybe a truly powerful CLI that can rival bash?
Cached IMAP is supported in a few clients, Firebird and kmail come to mind...
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
I'm only be rated as off topic because this board is filled with Linux zealots... you know, a bunch of free speech types that just want to censor everything that they disagree with.
Keep that attitude and you'll be labeled as a Troll too. Now get off my bridge. ;)
When I used Windows though, Outlook Express was my favored email client until I found Thunderbird. As a "Linux Zealot" I will assure you that I don't dislike the supporters of closed software, just anyone spreading fud about it or its supporters.
Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
"tech pundit Mike Elgan posits that the rushed-to-market Windows 7 -- due in 2010, now being beta released this October -- may in fact merely be Vista with new packaging.
Well, duh! It was either that or simply reissue XP as-is and call it Windows Classic.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
how about IE? oh yeah, forgot that it was integrated into the OS...
"You killed my yogurt!" --Fred Fredburger
How many people remember the MS method? The team and desingers that made Vista, should be working on Windows 8. If they follow their normal plan, then windows 7 would be XP with some touch ups similar to vista. The code cutover to the next team usually happens during one of the betas, so they had a large part of the next OS done before they released Vista. It may be that they just redress Vista, but more likely it will have some bad traits from XP rather than the bad items from Vista.
I'm only be rated as off topic because this board is filled with Linux zealots...
People might be nicer to you (and mod you higher) if you didn't call people morons.
You misunderstood the summary and article. They are not replacing them with web apps, but leaving them off of the install disk for you to install optionally.
THAT, along with your name-calling, is why you were modded down.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Remove all the accessory apps, and make them available free for download all in one place. That way, people can see a list of all these great free applications that are available only on Windows.
Much better than having them preinstalled and Joe SixPack not knowing that they're there among all the other crappy OEM software. Probably also puts them in better light with the EU too.
I run Linux with a small XP install for my games (I have really bad ATI drivers for Linux) where I have stripped out everything right down to the calculator. Well, everything but Windows Movie Maker...
When you can uninstall the freaking calculator, but not a bloated, seldom used video editor, there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with your operating system!
They should remove Internet Explorer and include something along the lines of Steam.
That would solve the, "not being able to download a web browser without a web browser," problem.
And it would drive traffic to their site. But they'd have to play nice and allow Mozilla and other F/OSS to get on the list.
Outlook is great unless you use IMAP. Microsoft purposely made IMAP support suck. It can't even be attributed to incompetence it sucks so bad. I mean crossing out deleted mails and not only not hiding them, but not moving them to the deleted folder? Sending sent mail to the LOCAL sent folder? No thanks.
Let me go out on a ledge here and suggest something radical.
Include a second DVD with your boxed purchase that has those apps on it. Call it "Windows Plus" or something like that.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
That's the only thing that I really wanted in Vista that didn't make it. I'm still waiting.
The price is always right if someone else is paying.
Editing text files isn't a basic function?
Just because you don't use it doesn't mean that it's not a basic function.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
When I recommend the Linux distribution I use, one of the things I promote is that:
By this, I mean that you can get set up and ideally have a complete working system right away. Browse the web with a strong browser, set up your email right away, view PDFs (with a fast PDF viewer), listen to music, write documents, spreadsheets, etc. Now, in practice some things don't work right away, but for that I blame general difficulty of installing any operating system (driver issues etc.) and licensing issues (goddamn MP3 license). I think installing an OS will always be a PITA, just on varying levels. Licensing is getting better with more distros offering paid legal licenses for MP3.
Anyway, what I'm getting to is that I feel a complete OS offers a solid platform on which to build. From my experience, casual users are satisfied with the included apps in a modern Linux distro save for maybe a better music player for the music buffs or better photo management for digital camera users. I think a minimal OS translates more to a Slack or Gentoo approach, which I doubt the everyday user wants. This also encourages OEMs to put their crap into EVEN MORE basic uses.
I think the association of Windows and bloat comes not from included MS apps (maybe not including Movie Maker), but instead from OEMs putting their shit on these computers. Good for Microsoft for making ANY change, but I think the real reduction in bloat happens at the installer level, not the OS producer. Let me know when a pig sprouts wings and the OEMs start putting less shit on their builds.
Yay! Count me as one of the people who will be happy to see a Windows OS that he doesn't have to ravage with a bazooka to remove the cruft.
At home or work, I don't touch Outlook/Express/Windows Mail, preferring Thunderbird at home. My work uses Pegasus Mail. For photos and videos, I install 3rd party apps, anywho. Between Irfanview, Inkscape and Paint.NET, all my graphical needs are met.
I am rather happy to see Microsoft NOT follow Apple's lead in packing more junk. Wait...did I just compliment Microsoft?
Bearded Dragon
Downloadable version instead of pre-packaged, you know.....
You can still get the same thing, you just have to take the extra step to download it...
and making sure you own a "Genuine" copy of Windows.
I'm all for putting an end to windows piracy. Mostly because if those people can't afford windows, maybe they can use a real free OS instead.
Well, like I said, you need an Exchange server to use Outlook. On the other hand, if you need a mail client with good IMAP support for Windows you know where to find it.
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1. Read story
2. Load comments
3. CTL-F "lipstick"
4. (not found) What the WTF??? Wait...
5. CTL-F "pig"
6. "A pig is still a pig, even when it's in a dress."
7. Close enough.
I know many people (including me) sometimes hate the OS X mail.app but I didn't see anyone bitching about Mail.app inclusion on OS X.
MS should think about why they feel forced to remove Outlook Express from Windows. For better performance? So how can Outlook Express hurt System performance? That is the real thing.
At one point I was running 5-6 mail clients (thanks to IMAP) and trying to choose one of them on OS X. There wasn't a slightest performance/compatibility or any other issue as result. There are several people who uses Mail.app to read/reply their mails and use Eudora to organise them.
Instead of thinking WHY they feel forced to remove a very important part (for some, business etc) of system, they just remove it.
I am almost sure OS X Snow Leopard's mail.app will even have MORE features and size. You won't see anyone complaining since Apple will be doing the real hard job of actually enhancing system performance, getting rid of old compatibility frameworks, move to pure 64bit etc.
It is not the size of Mail application (Lotus notes is 400 MB or something), it is something else.
I didn't even read the *title, so I'll just cover all my bases:
Steve Ballmer, the RIAA, Sarah Palin, and software patents are evil and must be *stopped!
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
Well, like I said, you need an Exchange server to use Outlook. On the other hand, if you need a mail client with good IMAP support for Windows you know where to find it.
I really think they should keep lightning included with thunderbird, once version 3 is finished. It turns Thunderbird from a simple mail client to an organizer like outlook. and Spicebird is worthless IMO. I hate the tab interface.
Another satisfied Win9x user I see =)
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
There is something to be said for continuity in one's personal habits. Precisely what, I have no idea.
I think the old error message ABORT, RETRY, FAIL? pretty much sums up Vista.
But it's not vista Beta 3 as much as it named after the movie SEVEN.
it's got the seven deadly sins including sloth and gluttony.
And at the end, you'll with it was your head in the box.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
I'm only be rated as off topic because this board is filled with Linux zealots...
You were probably modded down because it wasn't quite clear what you meant in your first post. It looked like you were referring to Vista as a 'client', but upon re-reading it's clear that you're talking about its mail client.
I'm kind of hopeful that this could also mean easier access to third-party apps for Windows users. More Internet-based distribution could lead to more variety, especially if it was a repository system similar to apt-get or pacman. But then again, we are talking about Microsoft. If they make any sort of gesture towards any third-party open source apps, it would likely be an extend-embrace-extinguish scenario. Still, it's nice to dream.
What's the value of information that you don't know?
Agreed, but installing it as an extension after the fact isn't all that hard.
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When will they get rid of that effing messenger that pops up in the systray no matter how many times I remove the .exe completely.
Imagine if you weren't allowed to use roads because a bus company complained about your driving 3 times. --skunkpussy
CTL-F "lipstick" found this.
has a good ring to it.
Is this what Microsoft is doing with unlucky Windows 7, focusing on bundled packaging instead of making the underlying OS capable of supporting various applications without using 50% of your CPU for virus protection, firewalling, and malware detection?
What a joke. They should be trying to make an OS which can compete on the low-end laptops(UMPs) with Linux and then build up from there. Instead, they have to pay the UMP manufacturers to double the memory and storage to run the old Windows XP Home( yes, the lowend version of WinXP ) and make sweetheart deals so the Linux versions are not cheaper than the WinXP versions.
Talk about a company wandering around without sight or instinct. The more I hear about this new OS after the recently released new OS, Vista, the more I think that this is Ozzy's baby and on a different timeline/track than the standard Windows Desktop/Server OS. Is this the Network computer they killed off about 10 years ago just as Google and others are doing it on handhelds and UMP devices along with thin clients? I guess another couple of years will shine some light on this since leaked pictures are 100% marketing dept sampling/testing and 100% unreliable from Microsoft. IMO.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
"tech pundit Mike Elgan posits that the rushed-to-market Windows 7 â" due in 2010, now being beta released this October â" may in fact merely be Vista with new packaging."
Yeah, and that's the same thing I've heard since Win95 was released...
"This revision of Windows is nothing more than a 'polished' (or insert pun here) revision of last revision".
Then it's released:
"This revision is worse than the last revision".
Fast forward 6 months to a year later:
"This version is so much better than the last version, and the next version sucks... To bad by then, Linux will be on the desktop of every PC ever made".
Yeah, we haven't heard that type of story before, have we. I can recall 2k being shit. Then it was XP. Then it was Vista. I've run them all, and as long as you keep your hardware current, you have no problems.
--Toll_Free
damn it! Must..stop..hitting..the..submit..button..so..fast. Must re-read shitty editing/composing of posting before hitting submit. They probably added the "Preview" option for me anyways. What a dumbass! :-/
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
This is NOT about making the OS "cleaner". It is designed to combat pirated copies of Windows 7. Microsoft withholds stuff like e-mail until after you register.
So this is where my bandwidth will be going....
My web domain.
I can't help but feel that in 5-7 years Microsoft will have reinvented Synaptic gone dark-side for Windows.
If you quote this signature there'll be 72 copies of Windows ME waiting for you in Heaven.
Microsoft is releasing its Wii.
This sounds like a great boost for Thunderbird since Windows is no longer offering a mail client. Good idea. Nice way to promote Thunderbird.
WordPad and Paint have seen major overhauls to their user interfaces. Forget the freetards and their "distros" full of all sorts of useless shovelware like "FireFox" and "OpenOffice" and, haha, "GIMP"! - the bundled software with Windows $NEXT_VERSION is clear, simple, sparse and to-the-point. The much-loved Ribbon user interface from Office 2007 is now part of WordPad and Paint! All hail!
http://rocknerd.co.uk
Yep - and as long as the stuff doesn't come installed, with its tentacles in everything, it could even come on the hard drive.
If you don't check the box to install it, it gets deleted at the end of the setup process. If you do, it doesn't need to be downloaded.
I've not used windows (well not for any length of time) for many many years. I never thought I would hear myself say this about Microsoft but "Hey thats actually a good idea!"
Lets hope this ethic extends to all the other crap that gets installed as standard like the various ISP icons and the other 20 or so pieces of crap that appear on a fresh PC. While microsoft are at it - perhaps they would consider supplying install media (instead of those crappy restore disks) for the OS too.
N.
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
Will IE be optional too?
I corrected some typos:
Seriously, would it kill them to modularize the operating system? A bare Linux install can still be under 100MB today (actually it can be under 4MB with a suite of command line tools), and well under one gig with an office suite and a full desktop environment. Vista clocks in at what (guesses), 8GB for an OS install? (I haven't checked the footprint of the bare OS since the beta releases so I may be wrong on the footprint)
Also, what happened with the clean break Windows 7 was to bring? Wasn't it going to be the total rewrite which was promised for Vista -- either that, or a SaaS model?
I think that it would do Microsoft a lot of good to do what Apple did and can backwards compatibility, leaving a compatibility layer to run in a sandbox like a VirtualPC instance, or worst case, a WINE-like environment. They can resolve the security issues that come with backwards compatibility and probably improve performance quite a bit.
Lastly, what about DRM? Is DRM going to still choke performance, or are they going to stop pandering to the studios and drop the DRM which does not curb professional pirates but only hinders legitimate fair use?
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
What planet are you from? The EU Commission's primary arguments were: 1) Bundled Media player hurts competition and 2) the monopoly of Windows on the desktop requires full documentation of proprietary server protocols, regardless of server market share.
In other words, bundling and monopoly position are precisely why they've been prosecuted recently!
Oh, the irony. You do realize you just summarized Microsoft's losing 1998 argument about IE, right?
It seems that they have developed some Advanced Tool that will handle Packaging I can't believe that nobody has ever come up with an idea for such an Advanced Packaging Tool.
It was an attempt to get people to put their videos into a nice, Redmond-patented format.
Luckily it failed.
(Mostly because it was awful quality I think....)
No sig today...
Most "normal" people use Hotmail, Gmail or Yahoo for email.
Very few would know how to configure/use Outlook.
No sig today...
"Does Windows 7 have lower system requirements re RAM, CPU speed and Hard Drive space to operate satisfactorily with all features enabled?"
If the answer to any of these questions is 'no" then it isn't worth buying
I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
.....just don't remove the Notepad.
Eclipse PDE and Me
I'm totally behind taking these applications out of the default install. (Windows Mail? What's that?) But why take them off the DVD entirely? If you're like millions of Americans, and still on dial up, downloading windows movie maker isn't an option.
That's why your average Linux distro ships with damn near every package you could ever want on the DVD, and installs only a few of them. If you want the extra crap, it's right there, ready to go.
I've you've got free apps, and space on the DVD, throw 'em on! Just don't make them install by default.
I didn't even read the *title, so I'll just cover all my bases
You can cover them all you want, but you can't cover the fact that they are belong to us.
wget http://download.mozilla.org/?product=firefox-3.0.2&os=linux&lang=en-US :)
I use a free OS because if I tell it to do something, it does what I want. I used MS Powerpoint on my wife computer last night... I'd change the font then start typing... and it would change the font back to Ariel! Why? I had told it to change fonts... it knew I really wanted to use Ariel... gah.... The folks watching then had the gall to tell me ... but I like Windows, it's what I grew up with... No wonder the business sector is so damn inefficient.
Semi-automatic amateur armchair Australian philosopher; conjecture ready at any moment...
I see this as an expansion of the Windows Genuine Program where sooner or later they'll add more popular core features to the WGP while avoiding DOJ rules. So I'd see Direct X, IE as possible addiitons. And since you need IE to run Windows Update well then you really do need to register Windows ....
I don't really care what they do anyways. Vista is worthless. Windows 7 will be an improvement upon the worthless. Or even worse!
Considering how well Windows Mojave has been perceived by the public a repackaged version of Vista might be good for Microsoft.
My UID is prime is yours?
are we supposed to fall for this?
They're using their grammar skills there.
It's good to see that they're focussing on the core-business again: selling notepad, paint and minesweeper (+ this runtime environment for them... "Windows"...)
The MAFIAA is a bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first up against the wall when the revolution comes
"Well, web-based email has the benefit of being accessible from wherever you're at. That's a huge advantage -- when I'm visiting my family, it's nice to be able to check my email."
I like it because even when the hard disk died in my notebook, I could access my Yahoo account using a live CD.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Not sure how this got modded offtopic? Parent said they shouldn't remove the mail client because MS got it right... now whether he's correct or not is up for debate, but I don't see how this was modded offtopic.
The basic Windows install should be just the core OS without all the frills. As low hard disk and RAM footprint as possible. Then all the extra stuff should be in the Plus! pack, which you can buy if you want and install just the things you want from it. They've done it before, it can't be that hard to do again.
I want an Operating System to do one thing very well: I want it to OPERATE MY SYSTEM! I do not want 50 applications bouncing against each other like rubber balls from my RAM to my processor as it tries to figure what "I" want to open my mp3 file with. This could be the first step back toward a Windows OS that actually did what you paid for it to do...instead of trying to do half a dozen things you don't want it to.
The fact that most people chose to use a crippled version of Windows Vista is their choice.
There's a non-crippled version of Vista? Without WGA and trusted media path and tilt switches and all the rest of the videogame copy protection code that has no business in an operating system?
Oh, you mean a *less crippled* version?
It's just a matter of how much crippling you're willing to pay to avoid, I guess.
I'm sticking with Windows 2000.
(The speed improvements in Firefox 3 also help, and its quite fun to compare the responsivity of my machine with a 2.6G Celeron running IE6. The answer is FF3 is *faster*!).
So I'd suggest what MS needs to do is pressure vendors to not load all that shovelware, pick more sensible defaults for the majority "home" configuration and to produce some utility to turn back on the "unneeded" services. Hey, does Mark Russinovich lurk over here at slashdot?
Andy
Nah. It's a sad fact that the pirated versions will be superior to the commercially-available ones and include everything the average use wants out of the box. Computer on a disk, all at Panthip Plaza!
Put identity in the browser.
What about Bob?!
Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure everything I just said is completely wrong.
You're trying to install Microschoft Tea Timer. This application depends on the following services:
* Movie maker
* Windows mail
* Photo gallery
* Exchange server enterprise edition
* MS Small Business Suite
* Office 2009
Total download is 25G.
Some of the software you've requested requires a license. Please stand by while we auto-deplete your credit card...
What a depressingly stupid machine.
if they stopped redesigns, and made something decent that had a solid time tested 15year life, then we wouldnt have this prob.
But they 'need' to change, to force upgrades dont they.
The variation in hardware is less today any way, more USB devices, less video cards, less chipsets.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
When the OS dvd is 5-8gig, and you have a 200+ to 750gig HD, just screw it and install *ALL* components.
Infact we should get away from the 'install' idea, and just release OS's as a resizeable disk image that will boot clean and detect hardware and allow turning on/off services post boot.
Surely reimaging 5gig would take 15mins, compared o 2hrs+ installing the slow way.
With cheap SD cards, you can now carry your 16gig OS on a stick (sd cards are better than USB sticks because theres more parts to a usb stick that can blow - like capacitors/resistors/IO chips or inductors.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
You can't pirate Windows using the CD if the data isn't on it. Ideally they'd like the CD to be nothing more than a validation and downloader tool, that way you need to have a valid key to get the files for the operating system at all, and you'll never actually be able to get your hands on an installer unless you do some trickery at the right point in the download process.
The problem is that the new OS might suck (if the recent leaked screenshots are real, the GUI will certainly suck) and nobody will bother to buy it, never mind pirate it. The fact that copy protection will annoy and scare people off while only acting as a speedbump to any pirates won't help.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Isn't that what every other OS already does (with some kind of package manager like apt - except that apt-get is easier to use than Windows Update)?
Windows 7 is one of those things that's a lot of fun once it grows on you a bit - in the mean time I expect a lot of people will be put off by all that singing. There's not a problem in the world that isn't handled in Windows 7 by singing at it...
Bow-ties are cool.
I think the world might be better off without Notepad, so the users would have to go get something better (i.e., anything else).
User installs Windows, only to find no browser installed by default. "That's okay," says the user, "I'll just download one... from the Internet... without a browser..."
Back in the bad old days, web browsers were distributed on floppy diskette. Or you just downloaded them when you connected to your ISP (or you dialed up your favorite BBS and got it there).
Then Netscape became a little bigger and was mailed out on CDs.
Though really, distributing a browser on CD-R or USB flash drive is pretty trivial. Most people who buy computers know other people who have computers as well (why else would you want to use the internet?) and could easily get a copy of Cool-New-Browser(TM) from someone they know.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
It's not like there was any sarcasm to miss. I directly stated that you could, in fact, access your gmail from a POP client. Then you corrected me and said, no, you can access gmail from a POP client. :-P
Cheers
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
When I reinstall my Windows box the first thing that gets replaced is Notepad. Specifically it is replaced with Notepad2, which is IMHO the best simple editor for Windows. In my opinion if Microsoft had any sense they would buy the app and substitute it in by default.
As for the subject...
I do wonder what they want to achieve with this: whether they really want to make the apps more visible by having them in a 'shopping aisle' on a server somewhere; or if they want to ease Windows OS and applications development; or if they want to make Windows seem cleaner to the end-user.
If the latter their efforts may be stunted by the cheapjack OEM software that often comes with new PCs.
I'm curious if Microsoft is actually trying to begin shifting things off the desktop in some small way here. You know, get people used to the idea of the 'core' simple software not coming bundled with the OS and needing to download it.
Later they add paid software and after that somewhat seamlessly begin adding paid services into the mix. Gradually they can turn their OS a more services oriented platform without any huge surprises for their users.
I could be waaay of the mark here but I can't help but wonder if this isn't part of a larger goal.
"Three eyes are better than one" -- Lieutenant Columbo
I'm curious if Microsoft is actually trying to begin shifting things off the desktop... begin adding paid services into the mix.
I should RTWFA (whole friendly article) before posting :-
But Monday we learned that Windows 7 won't even include Windows Photo Gallery -- nor will it have Windows Mail, Windows Calendar, Windows Contacts, or Windows Movie Maker. These will be "replaced" by optional and comparable online tools that already exist on the Windows Live site.
"Three eyes are better than one" -- Lieutenant Columbo