OS X On the MSI Wind

Ruler of Planets writes "PlanetX64 has just published an article on loading OS X on an MSI Wind, effectively creating a machine that is smaller and lighter than a Macbook Air. The exercise was done solely for academic purposes and doing so voids all kinds of warranties, but hey, now you can slip a Mac into a lab coat pocket!"

Comments

Done in August with Video

[BoldAC]

I read and saw the videos about triple booting with MSI wind back in August. He's got a video there and a bunch of hard to grab OS X drivers. If you are going to purchase a MSI wind, please note the issues with the non synaptics trackpads in some circumstances.

You will need an extra stick of RAM, DVD drive, and WLAN card as well. This hack will get you up to OS X 10.5.4. The hackint0sh community is usually a point release or two behind.

The planetx64 version also has problems with the internal mic, the microphone port and the headset port.

Re:Done in August with Video

[PC and Sony Fanboy]

congratulations, you're running with a vanilla kernal. Not all of us have that option, and for anyone who is running a hacked version to work on their AMD, for example, the hackintosh community is one or two points behind. Unless you'd like to invite us to that mythical community of faeries and magic where OSX works magically on all computers, even those that can't run a vanilla kernal.

Re:Done in August with Video

[Anonymous Coward]

It's called "kernel.org" for a reason. Because kernal was just a Commodore OS.

Seriously, spelling it that way is just flat-out wrong.

Re:Done in August with Video

[Anonymous Coward]

That's not entirely true. The current update of Mac OS X is 10.5.5, and probably within hours of it being released it was running on non Apple hardware. It's very simple to run a nearly Vanilla install of OS X these days. Installs can be made from a retail DVD, and only need to patch / modify less than 10 files to make it bootable and stable. Add a few kexts (drivers) for video, and possible sound and you're good to go. Can even update directly from the Apple Software Updater.

Looks like the site is being hosted on an MSI Wind

[Viol8]

Its slashdotted already

Every time I read an article like this

[jacquesm]

I wonder what the world would look like if Apple would sell software as well. I know they'd get a worse reputation because people would blame the OS for hardware / driver issues but it would certainly be neat to use OS/X on hardware other than that sold by Apple.

They would not have the margins they currently do, but it is very well possible that they'd take huge marketshare from microsoft.

And it would mean an instant end to the microsoft tax on new hardware.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Whiney Mac Fanboy]

I wonder what the world would look like if Apple would sell software as well.

Apple will never sell software sans hardware. They've got a control obsession. Their greatest strength & weakness as a company.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[gazita123]

They would not have the margins they currently do, but it is very well possible that they'd take huge marketshare from microsoft.

And it would mean an instant end to the microsoft tax on new hardware.

Their margins would be arguably higher, as selling software carries little additional cost versus hardware sales. Each additional unit is more-or-less pure profit.

I'm not convinced that it would be an instant end to the microsoft tax, but at least it would be another alternative. Neither option is free.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[MrHanky]

And how, exactly, would this change "the world"? Just because you have your head so far up Steve Jobs's arse that you can see the light doesn't mean the world in any way revolves around Apple's business plans. It's just you.

And re "the microsoft tax on new hardware": it doesn't exist. You can buy MSI Wind without Windows. You can buy whichever component you want without giving a cent to Microsoft. Perhaps you're confusing it with the Apple tax, the extra money you have to pay for an Apple approved version of graphics cards and some sound cards.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[powerspike]

they started selling the software standalone, they might not have the same profit margins, but i'm quite sure that'd be total oblitirated by the amount of software they'd sell. well it wouldn't be a microsoft tax anymore, it'd be a choice inbetween apple tax, and microsoft tax, you'd get to chose your poison so to speak. but i can see the day, where either apple don't win a court case stoping people making compatible hardware (ie os installs right on it) or they get some type of antitrust and are forced to remove the hardware restrictions on their software, it's not a matter of if, but when...

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Anonymous Coward]

Their margins would be arguably higher, as selling software carries little additional cost versus hardware sales. Each additional unit is more-or-less pure profit.

Except for that whole "support" issue that they'd have to cover for 90 days or 1 year (by law depending on where you live). And when you have such "minor" issues as "Not working: Internal Microphone, Microphone port, Headset port" on a system that most people generally consider to "work well" then you're going to be doing a whole lot of support. Sure, these can be fixed, but opening the floodgates to the masses will probably cost Apple a lot of whatever those higher margins are.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[apodyopsis]

I thought about that a while back.

Suppose they did it this way...

1. published a list of exactly what hardware they supported, ie. a restricted driver model not the windows model of anybody can create anything they want and sell it for windows.
2. allowed OEMs to choose that supported hardware and display a "Apple Ready" sticker
3. allowed home builder to choose from that list and be "Apple Ready"
4. then anybody could buy and install Apple OS - if during boot up it detected unsupported hardare it would either refuse to install or warn the user that some hardware would not be support

I would expect them to release a free tool that would allow you to confirm if your platform was supported.

If this was done then OEMs could sell apple OS PCs, you'd see PC with "ready for windows" and "apple ready" label you'd know you could dual boot.

But let's face it, this is pure fantasy. Apple restrict the OS because they want money from the HW and they want to enforce a beautiful uniform image for their equipment. They very last thing they was is an ugly square chinese box proclaiming to be an apple.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Weedlekin]

"I wonder what the world would look like if Apple would sell software as well."

Apple sell plenty of software. What they don't sell is their OS for use with generic hardware, but they sell plenty of other stuff, some of which runs on platforms other than OS X.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[aliquis]

Yeah, because the Apple tax is much better ..

(I know that's not what you mean, in any case it's easy to get a PC without paying Microsoft as well, if nothing else just buy the parts.)

No need to blame the OS for any such issues if they said what hardware is supported, if you use unsupported parts then you got no one else to blame than yourself.

I'm not sure if would be such a huge success though, I have a mac now but it's not that awesome. FreeBSD + KDE works for me if only there was some commercial apps to.
But anyway, most people want the applications they are used to, their friends use, their school and work use. And they want to be able to play games.

So gamers wouldn't want it, my sister wouldn't want it, the people who are pro open software wouldn't want it...

Personally I think an Apple-branded shuttle-like system with motherboard, PSU, case, software and eventually keyboard and mouse with a list of supported CPUs, memory, graphic cards, burners, firewire soundcards, webcams and os on would be just fine.

Apple still knows the things work, Apple can still get paid for their software, people can put in the stuff they want (some people wouldn't be happy with the case I guess but whatever.)
And as long as you buy the supported hardware things works.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Registered Coward v2]

Their margins would be arguably higher, as selling software carries little additional cost versus hardware sales. Each additional unit is more-or-less pure profit.

I'm not convinced that it would be an instant end to the microsoft tax, but at least it would be another alternative. Neither option is free.

Two points:

1) revenue would take a big hit if people switches from Apple branded hw to others
2) shipping fewer units would mean higher unit costs and lower margins on those products
3) support costs would go up as Apple would have to ensure it worked on a variety oh hardware combos with products they currently do not support but are cmmon such as WiFi cards from various manufacturers, or
4) they cut a deal with say Dell and HP but then they will need to significantly drop prices and stop update the build everytime an internal component changes

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[aliquis]

And what would force Apple to support OS X on the MSI wind and all other x86 hardware in the world just because they sold the OS?

Pretty shitty country you live in if companies can be forced to support whatever hardware you happen to have. I'd like to live in that country if they same would be true for software though: "So, I've bought warhammer and I want to play it on my leenucks machine."

Also in the world I live the hardware vendors is responsible for drivers, not the OS vendors. If MSI wants OS X on the machine they'd better get drivers for the sound part as well.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Anonymous Coward]

"And it would mean an instant end to the microsoft tax on new hardware."

Monopoly, look it up. It has to do with bundling deals Microsoft has not what OS will run on the hardware or Linux would have blown Windows away in recent years. It's not just the hardware vendors but software vendors involved. There still is a lot of Windows only software. Mostly because of development costs to port it to smaller Linux/Mac markets but some companies are "encouraged" to stay Windows only.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[aliquis]

If I had my 10 mod points I would have wanted to give you them all.

Wtf is up with the special mac graphic cards for real macs when hacks run BIOS cards? If the EFI connection in the OS is so loose can't they somehow make it possible to just use regular video cards? Or just skip EFI totally since it's not like they have released lots of EFI cards anyway and the world don't seem to move on to EFI just yet anyway.

Geforce 8800 GT 512MB Mac Pro upgrade kit: $279.00

Same card for a PC on newegg: $110.99

(Not to forget it's a shitty card anyway compared to some other options, but those aren't options even on a hack since all cards isn't supported anyway. Though I guess it can't be hard for Apple to get support for HD3000- and HD4000-series if they wanted to as well.)

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[davester666]

Yes, the percentage margin could be higher, particularly if they go more direct (as in, online download & activation).

But there is no real way Apple could reinvent themselves as a software-only company [as they tried the sell-hardware & license OS to competitors before and got their asses handed to them before they stopped it].

Problems include:
-price for both OEM and retail set by Microsoft. America is cheap. See Walmart & Dell (well, Dell in the past, now they are kinda bloated). If customers Apple is going after won't spend the extra couple hundred bucks to go from the advertised 'cheap' model to Apple's baseline, they aren't going to drop an extra couple hundred bucks just to use MacOS X over Vista. And since Apple doesn't have an existing install-base created by being a monopolist, trying to sell MacOS X at MS price levels would give them nowhere near the amount of profit that they need for advancing the OS. Apple makes between say 150 - over 1000 PROFIT on each machine they sell. To make the same amount of money from retail and OEM sales, their market share would have go from 5% to 25% (or higher), overnight, just to stay even.
-supporting MacOS X on all kinds of machines becomes a much more significant drain on tech support. Again, people are cheap, and expect cheap tech support. And it has to be cheap and/or require NO support for the general public to pay for MacOS X instead of Vista. Particularly if they pay more for MacOS X over Vista, people will expect it to work better and with fewer problems than Vista. That certainly is an impossible goal for Apple. Just look at Microsoft with Vista. They have boatloads of experience supporting all the wacky hardware out there, loads of influence with ALL vendors to get everyone to create new drivers on a dime, and still MS has loads of driver problems. Apple will have more..
-speaking of drivers, again, Apple has no chance. There are a crazy amount of configurations out there, plenty of which have choices that aren't even listed in spec lists. So, customers can't just buy a machine, then load MacOS X on it and expect it to work (well, they would expect it to work, but it probably wouldn't). So, it would become more like how Linux is being installed now by the major vendors (more or less). Specific configurations are listed as being sold either with Linux or Vista, but the majority is sold only with Vista (or XP). And people expect all their devices to work (both the ones they own and new ones). But most manufacturers aren't willing (or can't afford) to fund a second or third (if they are doing linux) parallel development streams until they see significant penetration of MacOS X (so it's a chicken & egg thing, just look at how long it's taken Linux to start bootstrapping it's drivers).
-Apple's shareholders would raze Apple's campus. It's been said, the fastest way to change Apple from being a billion-dollar company to a million-dollar company is for it to switch to being software only (even keeping iPods, etc, only dropping computer hardware). Sure, Apple's got billion's in the bank, so they would still be able to keep funding everything for years, but you can kiss the stock price goodbye.

It winds up just being "customers pick from a more limited selection of models if they want MacOS X (because these models have been tested to work properly with MacOS X and have drivers for all their components), and the machines costs more (because Apple needs to charge more than MS for the OS license)". Customer's would be able to buy slightly cheaper systems than they do now from Apple, and have a wider variety of systems than they do now from Apple, but have more problems than they do now from Apple.

And finally, consider Microsoft as well. Apple's business plan would be change from successfully competing in the computer systems market by clearly differentiating themselves from everybody else, to competing head-on with Microsoft, for Microsoft's existing customers (namely OEM sales). The day after Apple

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[tux0r]

simultaneously the source of their greatest strength and greatest weakness

I have the sudden urge to say "Ergo, vis-a-vis, concordantly... I have no idea what I'm talking about."

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Per Wigren]

I don't know of any such countries, but it's common to have laws that require companies to actually support the hardware they claim to support and that's a big difference. Not doing so is false marketing/fraud.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[aliquis]

... Or just sell they card at market price and not at some remarkable markup.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[larry bagina]

The mid 90s called. They have the answer to your question. But here's a reminder:

• Other companies eat away at Apple's hardware sales and Apple heads towards bankruptcy
• NeXT sells OpenStep for x86 computers. It's at least a decade ahead of everything else (except maybe BeOS). It's very expensive.

The fact you don't remember/know those two pieces of history suggest it wasn't really a stunning success.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Anonymous Coward]

And there's a reason they want to control the hardware, or at the very least sell/produce the hardware. People forget that years ago Apple tried the whole "lets sell an OS!" thing, and allowed Mac clones to be made.

The clones almost killed Apple. And that was one of the first things Jobs made away with when he returned.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[PopeRatzo]

revenue would take a big hit if people switches from Apple branded hw to others

Why do you have so little confidence in Apple's hardware?

If, as we are often told, Apple's hardware is so much better, then there should not be a "big hit" from people switching.

I actually think it may be the other way 'round. Most of the people I see using "Macs in public" would still buy the Apple product even if it came with Windows only.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[aliquis]

Except knowing Apple they'd ask for an insane price for the benefits of having that sticker on your box or part of the profit since soooo many mac users would buy their cards, of which the OEM would say fuck that and things would remain as they is. =P

For half the price and same specs I'd for sure take the chinese box :)

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[timmarhy]

it would mean they would end up in the same boat as MS, and everyone would suddenly realize windows isn't evil and that MS is just a software company, not the devil.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[PopeRatzo]

I think what we're really saying here is that there is need in the marketplace for another manufacturer of a professional, commercial operating system, that is well-funded and well made.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[aussie_a]

I agree. I would actually use OS/X if it didn't mean I'd have to buy new hardware (I currently have no need to upgrade my hardware).

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[PopeRatzo]

Apple sell plenty of software...but they sell plenty of other stuff, some of which runs on platforms other than OS X.

You could have provided a list.

I keep hoping that they'll offer Logic for Windows.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Uberbah]

No, WATB, they have an obsession with not going out of business. They don't have an OS monopoly and can't lock in Dell or HP into selling OS X on their machines. They can't make the $$$ on volume like Microsoft can, so they'd have to charge much more money for their operating systems - inviting rampant piracy.

Stop drinking the anti-Apple Kool Aid.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Uberbah]

Good luck competing against Windows if you can't run on the same hardware. Not to mention the time wasted and customer dissatisfaction when a customer buy's OS X for their new Vaio only to find out it isn't supported.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[WillAdams]

A more practicable (but only slightly more likely situation) would be to allow OEMs to license the ability to install Mac OS X for hardware which doesn't compete w/ hardware made by Apple ---consider he following form-factors which Apple doesn't address:

  - netbook / smaller than MacBook Air machines
  - slate-style pen computers
  - convertible pen computer laptops
  - full desktop replacement laptops
  - mid-size tower w/ just one or two slots
  - larger than 1U rack server

William
(who really does need to find the time to install Mac OS X 10.5 on his Fujitsu Stylistic)

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Hal_Porter]

The cliches are coming, thick and fast.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[KGIII]

I dunno. I bought a Macbook Air just for the hardware alone. It boots to Windows. I don't use their OS but I really REALLY like the laptop. I'd have considered a netbook but I really wanted something with a full size keyboard and screen as well as plenty of power.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[PC and Sony Fanboy]

Apple will never sell software sans hardware.

Just wait, one day they'll start giving it away. Everyone will use OSX. Then Steve (who will reveal himself to be a highlander) will then use the internal kill switch to eliminate the entire population of computer using highlanders. And the few other people brave enough to use OSX for anything other than iMovie.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[PC and Sony Fanboy]

Except... hackintosh-ing invites rampant piracy. So does selling your os, in general. Look to the linux community - very little piracy going on there...

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[PC and Sony Fanboy]

but i'm quite sure that'd be total oblitirated by the amount of software they'd sell.

... yes, because everyone who uses windows would jump ship... You know there are still very few games, and not very much business software that is made to run on OSX. Sure, some of the big ones work - but what about all the custom applications? OSX might see some adoption if it was sold separately, but it is so foreign to the average windows user that they'd wait until their next new PC to switch. And if they didn't like it, they wouldn't stay with it.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[PC and Sony Fanboy]

Uhhh... iTunes? Safari? Sure... it is only two applications. But they're revolutionary. And really, if you believe everything that apple tells you, you don't need much else. iLife has everything you'd ever need... according to them.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[PC and Sony Fanboy]

Yes, sorry. MS is a software company... *run* by the devil. Who also happens to be the incredible hulk. Who moonlights as steve ballmer.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[BrokenHalo]

I actually think it may be the other way 'round. Most of the people I see using "Macs in public" would still buy the Apple product even if it came with Windows only.

I like to think you might be right, but I suspect not. If an Apple box came with Windows installed, it would probably suck. I don't normally like to take this position, since I'm not keen on fanboyism, but I've had a bad run today with MS idiocies. :-) But I take your point: although desktop systems don't matter so much (my "heavy horse" linux box is pretty much out of sight under my desk) the portable offerings from Apple do have an appeal of their own from an aesthetic point of view.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Weedlekin]

Apple sell plenty of software...but they sell plenty of other stuff, some of which runs on platforms other than OS X.

You could have provided a list.

I keep hoping that they'll offer Logic for Windows.

"You could have provided a list."

A list of Apple software, or Apple software that runs on platforms other than OS X?

"I keep hoping that they'll offer Logic for Windows."

I agree it would be nice if they did, especially the new Logic Studio Pack, which contains a lot more stuff than Logic Pro did, is a much nicer to use, and sells for less than 1/3 of the old price.

NB: the "pro" Apple software I know runs on non-OS X systems is the Shake movie production suite, which is also available for Linux at no less than 10 times the price of the Mac version ($4999 instead of $499)!!!. I hope the Linux suite has some capabilities that are missing from the Mac one to account for the price difference, but will apologise in advance for being far too lazy to bother checking their respective specifications.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Uberbah]

Except... hackintosh-ing invites rampant piracy.

No, because getting OS X to run on a vanilla PC has some technical hurdles, and the number of pirates goes down with each hoop that needs to be jumped through. If Apple releases a version of Leopard that installs (if not runs) on PC's without trouble, goodnight Shirley.

One thing that Apple does actually do to encourage piracy is the fact that they don't have a mid to low end tower. I'm considering doing a Hackintosh after Apple adds ZFS support, as I want a tower with four terabyte hard drives but want my total cost to be less than $1000, not start out at $2800 (base Mac Pro) before I even add the drives.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[BrokenHalo]

Much as some might welcome this (maybe even myself), I can see why Apple might want to steer clear of it, as if "there be dragons". Just think of the baggage of device drivers they would have to conjure up. Because you can bet the hardware manufacturers (with, of course, honourable exceptions) will mostly go with the flow and code only for the perceived majority.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[domatic]

The problem with that is Apple will sometimes decide to address a market they weren't addressing before. When doing so, I'd fully expect them to quit issuing licenses to third-parties for any now covered categories assuming they can bring themselves to do any form of third party licensing.

Also, the larger models of the MacBook Pro can serve as Desktop Replacements IMHO. I have one that is issued to me at work and it is a throughly ridiculous piece of equipment though I like it's ability to store all of the restore images I'm carrying around.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Anonymous Coward]

The cliches are coming, thick and fast.

Someone grab a towel, double entendre is coming too!

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Anonymous Coward]

...and an instant beginning to the apple tax?

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Anonymous Coward]

That would be so cool if they were to sell "standalone" software. This probably would take a huge market share away from Microsoft. There would be so many issues regarding copyright infringement, between the two competitors though.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Anonymous Coward]

Silicon Graphics had that same obsession....until they started going bankrupt and then they got really desperate to move everything over to Linux. So, umm, yeah.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Sebilrazen]

The cliches are coming, thick and fast.

Unlike your average /. reader.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[sortius_nod]

Well, you would too if you'd been fucked over from lisencing your products previously... remember the Mac clones and that huge fuck up?

No, I don't own a Mac, I just see why they do things the way they are. Frankly, most users are too stupid to own a computer, let alone be trusted to install the OS on their own random bits of hardware. Hell, even with driver disks and Windows they seem to still fuck it up.

The way I see it if you want Mac OS you should be more than happy to fork out the extra cash for one...

*waits for the windows fanboys posing as mac lovers to flame him*

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[DaveWick79]

In reality, if Apple wanted to go into business as a software vendor, they wouldn't be undercutting MS to do it. They would gain market share, not on price but because people would be convinced through marketing that MacOS will work better with their Ipods.
Apple does not want to get into supporting their OS on any hardware, because, frankly, it might be worse than Windows at doing it. If they took that step and failed, they might never recover from it. Like you said, they want to stay in business and right now the best way is to keep their hardware and software development tight and market the hell out of it.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Coldness]

The 8800GT is shitty? News to me, my slightly overclocked card can tear Crysis apart. In fact, it's been proven that 9800's are 8800s slightly factory overclocked -- it's falling in to the mid-range category, but very slowly. You name a game that I can't run on it and I'll prove you wrong. 260/280 GTX's are still too pricey to even be considered by a good chunk of the market.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Anonymous Coward]

(...) as well as plenty of power.

then why buy a macbook air?

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[wiz_80]

Back in the late 90s I worked for UMAX, which made Mac clones when this was (briefly) legal. The business was successful, and was quickly killed by Apple, for exactly the same reason. Namely, UMAX could sell a more powerful machine than Apple did, for less money. Remember this was when Apple chipsets used the PPC 603 and 604, not x86 CPUs.

Nowadays, if things opened up and the beige-box makers could bring their enormous x86 economies of scale to bear, Apple's hardware market would change drastically. The Mac Mini buyers would probably stick around, but the Mac Pro market would evaporate, and the laptop market would also be affected.

Basically, Apple as-is has no interest in opening up the platform. They might be able to pull off an iPod-style takeover of a certain market, such that nobody would consider moving in, and then sell the OS to the rest of the market, but that sounds risky and hard work, so why would they do it? Not for the /. goodwill, that's for sure.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[KGIII]

For the size, the beauty, and that it fits my power needs. It is light, thin, has the full size keyboard and a large screen. It has held up really well being tossed onto the passenger seat sans case, dropped a couple of times from the bed to the floor, and being used as a tool and not a piece of art or anything.

I like it because it is very light and thin and that makes it fit my lifestyle well. It was very overpriced and all but, generally was worth the expense to me. It certainly isn't worth it to many people but it fit my life really well other than the OS that came with it. I really don't like the Mac OSes at all. I prefer Windows though I don't mind Mandriva for most of my day-to-day tasks. I really do NOT like the Mac OS though.

I have thought about installing Vista on it but I really haven't the heart to ruin it. It's really quite speedy with XP and the battery life is quite good as well. I suppose I could turn all the fluff and install Vista but I'm a bit lazy like that I suppose.

It's a laptop, not a gaming rig. It hasn't a need to be all powerful. The size and weight were important to me. The full sized keyboard and large screen are equally important.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Anonymous Coward]

...your head so far up Steve Jobs's arse...

It is spell "ass" not "arse". Being pretentious doesn't change spelling. Fortunately you have an orifice just right for storing that extra r.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[NeoSkandranon]

Why do you have so little confidence in Apple's hardware?

If, as we are often told, Apple's hardware is so much better, then there should not be a "big hit" from people switching.

They'd take a hit for the same reason so many people buy cheap but poorly made manufactured goods.

For a nontrivial portion of the population, price wins, for better or for worse.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[gad_zuki!]

>No, WATB, they have an obsession with not going out of business.

Opening your platform to more hardware is a good way to expand your market and create new profits.

The GP is correct. Apple's corporate philosophy is to deliver an all-in-one highly controlled solution. This has big advantages for the technophobic home market. Maintaining a 'it just works' reputation is important to them, but arguably an more open approach would be better, at least in dollars in the long run.

This is also why they wont let me virtualize their platform.

This guarantees that Apple will never make inroads into the big corporate sector, but it may not want to or it simply is not equipped to. A vanity/boutique device can also demand a higher margin than commodity stuff.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Registered Coward v2]

revenue would take a big hit if people switches from Apple branded hw to others

Why do you have so little confidence in Apple's hardware?

If, as we are often told, Apple's hardware is so much better, then there should not be a "big hit" from people switching.

I actually think it may be the other way 'round. Most of the people I see using "Macs in public" would still buy the Apple product even if it came with Windows only.

It's not lack of confidence in Apple's hw (which I own and appreciate) but absolute confidence in the buying public's willing to forgo great hardware for cheap hardware if it saves them a buck. If you can get the MacOS experience on a $500 (laptop + MacOS) machine many people would buy it and not a Macbook or Mac desktop. Sure the $500 machine is not as fast or as cool but it is good enough - and good enough plus a few hundred cash in the pocket trumps better every time.

Take the educational market as an example - how many parenst will shell out for a Mac when they could get the equivalent OS for $500? You'd see a lot of Dells with MacOS if that were an option and far fewer Macbooks.

As for the "Macs in public" my experience is Mac users want the Mac experience, and pay extra to get it. If they had to use Windows by it self I'd bet most of them go for the cheaper Dell/HP/et. al. solution. It's not about the hardware but about the OS and Apple's "It just works" experience, and as long as Apple is the only place to get MacOS people who want it will pay the premium.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Anonymous Coward]

It is spell

Heh.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Registered Coward v2]

Back in the late 90s I worked for UMAX, which made Mac clones when this was (briefly) legal. The business was successful, and was quickly killed by Apple, for exactly the same reason. Namely, UMAX could sell a more powerful machine than Apple did, for less money. Remember this was when Apple chipsets used the PPC 603 and 604, not x86 CPUs.

I remember them - we bought uMax machines do do our paper layout for the very reasons you mentioned - more powerful machines for less money. When we bought them we wondered how long it would be before Apple killed their OS license business.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[ArtemaOne]

People talk about Microsoft tax on new hardware. What about Apple tax on their OS? A few thousand on a decent PC with a different bios.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[recoiledsnake]

Apple will never do that because it will cut into the sales of their overpriced hardware bigtime. Why shell out $3000 for a Macbook Pro when you get a midsize tower from Dell for $400 ?

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Anonymous Coward]

> Apple will never sell software sans hardware.

Strange, I've bought several copies of their OS over the years.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Uberbah]

Opening your platform to more hardware is a good way to expand your market and create new profits.

Good way for Apple to cut their own throats, you mean. They already tried this in the 90's, remember? They licensed their OS to OEM's with the idea that clones would grow the Mac market. But the cloners didn't grow the market, they just cannibalized Apple's sales. And trying to compete head to head against an OS monopoly would be a suicide mission, especially when Microsoft could use their $60 billion in cash to fund a price war.

Opening their OS might make sense for you, but it doesn't make sense for Apple.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[cp.tar]

The way I see it if you want Mac OS you should be more than happy to fork out the extra cash for one...

And frankly, I've never regretted the extra cash I forked out for my MBP.

I consider myself converted.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Anonymous Coward]

Someone has to pay for those drivers, and it seems that hardware companies doesn't do more drivers then windows...

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[gad_zuki!]

You dont need an OS monopoly to make money. This has not been true historically.

Apple's clone attempts showed that the market will bear lower priced hardware. Apple still makes OEM money from the OS license itself. Considering how diversified Apple is now it can certainly open its game.

Lastly, what mac fanboys wont admit to is that OS7-9 was a terrible product. They would have failed in the 90s because they were selling garbage and everyone knew it, except loyalists. OS X is worth paying for.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[PopeRatzo]

but I've had a bad run today with MS idiocies.

As someone who produces music and video, mostly on a PC (not necessarily by choice), I can relate completely to your sentiment.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[SaDan]

Honestly, Apple doesn't have a "high-end" system either. I am typing this on a MacPro (work machine), and I can tell you, this system isn't fast, and it doesn't handle a lot of applications at once either.

I don't know what keeps Apple alive, to be honest.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[PopeRatzo]

Take the educational market as an example

Some people forget that the primary reason Apple is so popular today is because when today's consumers were children, Apple was enthusiastically participating in the educational market for their computers.

In fact, I was at a meeting in Cupertino once (I was the director of computing for a medium size, prestigious private university) and the then-CFO of Apple was assuring us that Apple would "always make the educational market a priority". In fact, we were told, that "bite" out of the Apple represented the educational sector of the market, which Apple considered crucial to their future success.

Today, Apple's not quite so enthusiastic about keeping a presence on college campuses, and instead of using aggressive pricing and excellent vendor-customer communications, they rely upon the "ooh, shiny" factor to fuel any sales that they enjoy from the educational sector.

I think the real reason Apple doesn't want to sell it's OS separately is not because they're so concerned about people who'd try to run their software on underpowered machines (since most of their machines came out of the factory underpowered for a long time), but rather they worry about the boutique hardware builders who would come out with platforms that would run OSX better than Apple's own offerings.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[iphayd]

There is a difference now. In the 90's, Apple's market was shrinking, and it was an experiment to see whether licensing will reverse this. It didn't.

Now, Apple's market is growing. At some point (now), it will be impossible for Apple to reasonably manufacture every computer for every Mac user. Case in point...

I would pay for a Toughbook-style mac and a tablet-style mac. I understand that Apple has no interest in producing these for me. However, it would be nice if Panasonic could license OSX to put on their machines and offer it as a option. I'm buying the toughbooks and tablets anyhow, they just don't have OSX on them, which means that Apple doesn't get any of the funds that I have spent on them.

Both of these sub markets do not directly compete with Apple, and both of these sub markets carry a premium above and beyond that of a normal laptop, which means that they aren't really competition at all.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Poppa_Chubby]

I've heard this reason (lack of a low-end mini tower) several times and I still don't understand the reason for it, other than the geek factor.

There are a bunch of external USB and firewire hard drive products out there that would require a significantly less amount of work to plug into a mac mini or imac.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Lars T.]

Look to the linux community - very little piracy going on there...

Unless you count the free act-a-likes of expensive enterprise distributions.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Lars T.]

Back in the late 90s I worked for UMAX, which made Mac clones when this was (briefly) legal. The business was successful, and was quickly killed by Apple, for exactly the same reason. Namely, UMAX could sell a more powerful machine than Apple did, for less money.

You forgot to mention: they didn't have to spend any money on development of machines (because most machines used Apple designed mobos), and they had to spend little on advertisement (because they would just put up an ad in Mac magazines telling existing Mac users that they were cheaper than Apple).

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[gobbo]

I've heard this reason (lack of a low-end mini tower) several times and I still don't understand the reason for it, other than the geek factor.

Well, it's pretty simple, really: I want a non-glossy monitor and a fast hard drive. That rules out the iMac and Mini. Since I have to use OS X, it's either hackintosh or the overkill of a mac pro.

I also wouldn't mind a better video card and one PCI slot.

The cost of building a hackintosh plus cheap monitor isn't that much lower than buying an iMac, though, so it's giving me pause. The extra hassle of making things work means the savings aren't worth much in hourly wages. I may just buy a smaller iMac and attach a good monitor to it.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[gobbo]

We also bought Umax clones. They had a significantly high failure rate a year or two out of warranty. In the end the old apples were sold or turned into backup servers and the old umaxes were junked, so the price difference was more than recouped... the TCO was lower on the Apples, and to a non-profit org, it made a difference.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Anonymous Coward]

Still not piracy since they are following the GPL and other licences applied

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Uberbah]

There are a bunch of external USB and firewire hard drive products out there that would require a significantly less amount of work to plug into a mac mini or imac.

External drives are great for temporary use, not so much for permanent use. Reasons to use internal over external:

• Price
• Performance (Firewire 800 is the shiznit, but it doesn't have the 3 Gpbs bandwidth of SATA)
• Clutter (four drives + four bricks
• Portability - only the case to grab & go
• Cooling - can add extra case fans

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[leoofborg]

Kudos, Larry. Someone with clue. Now that we're in the 00s.....

* Agreed, and duh, Apple is a hardware company. Always will be, unless some idiot flirts with legal clones again. Then we go back to the bad old days of 'is this company going to be around so that my machine is supported / will software companies keep making Mac software or do I have to run a windows box in case Apple folds?

* All the little fanboys are pretty much running OpenStep right now with new chrome. Who'da thunk?

If you REALLY wanna try running HackOSX on a Wind, and you're a hobbyist... well... go to town. I'm perfectly happy with my MacBook Pro

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[peas_n_carrots]

I'm no crApple fan, but the "Microsoft tax" does exist. It depends on how the OEM negotiates the volume license deal, which often includes every single system regardless of whether Windows is actually installed on it. M$ gets their $$$ regardless of whether the system is shipped with Windows, Linux or whatever. The vast majority of OEMs have to negotiate this way for pricing reasons. Maybe a handful of the really really big OEMs can get concessions from M$. Most probably just eat the cost for the tiny percentage of systems that don't ship M$. Anyway, learn yourself on the convolutionisms of M$ volume licensing before flaming the Macboys. Yeah they suck, but sometimes they're right.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Whiney Mac Fanboy]

Unless you count the free act-a-likes of expensive enterprise distributions.

Are you some sort of fucking idiot? That's not piracy.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[floodo1]

at 1920x1200 it will tear crysis apart?

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Anonymous Coward]

But MS IS THE DEVIL! They always have been. Windows is crap, always has been, always will be. Same with Office.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Registered Coward v2]

We also bought Umax clones. They had a significantly high failure rate a year or two out of warranty. In the end the old apples were sold or turned into backup servers and the old umaxes were junked, so the price difference was more than recouped... the TCO was lower on the Apples, and to a non-profit org, it made a difference.

We replaced ours every couple of years so we didn't have warranty issues, but we were lucky to be able to afford that.

 

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Falconhell]

If you change horses mid stream, you will soon be up the creek without a padlle, and then the balloon goes up. (-:

Guy walked into a bar and asked the barman for a double entendre-so he gave him one.....

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[aliquis]

But there is no problem with that, just don't buy something which don't have OS X drivers?

Not that I don't really see the issue, OS X got pretty wide support for nvidia and ati gpus and integrated intel graphics and I guess the only reason support for the latest cards is missing is because Apple haven't used them yet.

Keyboard, mouses, webcams, scanners and printers would be the same just as it is already. Most of them work with OS X, on a mac or not.

OS X have poor support for PCI sound cards and similar, so just make sure to get a supported firewire one, not that hard, now or then.

Lots of dvd-burners work with OS X.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[aliquis]

But Lenovo, LG and Sony and such have premium small laptops as well, I would take an X61 or whatever it's called over the air in case both ran OS X.

But as I reason if you really need an ultra portable notebook the new netbooks is a much better choice, over here they cost 1/5 as much, are rather close in performance except CPU, are more portable and you don't have to be that afraid of somehow killing it since it's rather cheap.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[aliquis]

HD4850 is just as good or better than the 8800 GTS/9800 GT, HD4870 is even better and of course HD4870X2 will own all.

Sure a 8800 GT is ok, and will probably run all the latest games, and do the majority of them ok on the 20" 1680x1050 iMac.

But that don't mean that the newer one isn't any faster, so Apple is still somewhat behind, and for some kind of übergamer that will still be important since they can't get the latest stuff in the Apple machine.

Also on a 24" iMac, or if you could really afford a Mac Pro + said 8800 GT card you are very likely to have a better LCD than a 20", more like 24" or 30", and at native resolution at those the newest game would NOT run perfect at all the highest settings on the 8800 GT.

(Also in my opinion if you can afford to spend 2000+ dollar on a Mac Pro and want to play games it seems reasonable to spend more than 110 dollar for a graphics card.)

But then there is so few games for OS X since Apple don't care about them so it's not a huge show stopper for them (though for some of their could have been future costumers.)

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[aliquis]

What say they should try to compete with Windows? Apple as is makes money. Similar as with Nintendo, why should they try to compete in the HD-area when they still makes the most profit?

OS X on generic PCs of supported hardware would still be more copies running than OS X on no generic PCs.

Well, if it become reality the consumer would had looked for that "OS X ready"-sticker, would had been able to choose OS X as an option when they bought the Vaio (or could have checked Apples webpage if any Vaios ran OS X.)

So no biggie.

Also most SSE3 and up Intel laptops already run OS X with the hacked version.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[aliquis]

I don't know how Microsoft says but if they do have some system requirements on the box I guess it would cover lots of PCs with components for which Vista don't have built in drivers. Though I guess it's still able to boot on them even with some components not working.

Apple don't have to say that OS X runs on all PCs though, they can say that you should check the HCL to see if your PC/components is supported or not.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Registered Coward v2]

I think the real reason Apple doesn't want to sell it's OS separately is not because they're so concerned about people who'd try to run their software on underpowered machines (since most of their machines came out of the factory underpowered for a long time), but rather they worry about the boutique hardware builders who would come out with platforms that would run OSX better than Apple's own offerings.

I think Apple would get squeezed at both ends - cheap laptops and desktops that run MacOS comparable to the Macbook / mini but at half the price and high end screamers that exceed Apple's best at the same price; leaving them with no hardware marketshare. That would leave them trying to break MS' OS stranglehold with little resources to do so compared to MS.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[wiz_80]

How odd. I had enough faith in the product that I talked my parents into getting one, and they only replaced it last year, once it became unavoidably obvious even to them that it was horribly obsolete.

That said, I worked for a local distribution operation, and we never shipped the boxes to the customer as delivered from Taiwan. There was always some prep work done, so it may be that we caught the dodgy ones at that stage.

The power supply with a broken 110-230 voltage switch was fun, for values of fun which include smoke and sparks... Also it was plugged in to the first, and at the time, *only* SMP mobo in Europe (not an Apple design, btw), so the boss-man also made a certain amount of smoke and sparks. Fun times.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Uberbah]

What say they should try to compete with Windows?

How would Apple release a desktop, consumer OS that runs on vanilla PC's and not be competing with Windows?

OS X on generic PCs of supported hardware would still be more copies running than OS X on no generic PCs.

And fewer Macs sold. They tried this already with the cloners. They didn't expand the Mac OS marketshare, they just cannibalized Apple's sales.

Just because this would make sense for you does not mean it would make sense for Apple. They aren't a monopoly and can't force Dell and HP to install Leopard on their machines. They wouldn't have Microsoft's volume, but they would be going up against Microsoft's $50 billion in cash reserves while trying to make a profit on the sales of OX X.

You're asking them to slit their own throats.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[Uberbah]

Apple's clone attempts showed that the market will bear lower priced hardware.

They also showed that clones cannibalize Apple's sales before they grow the market.

Apple still makes OEM money from the OS license itself.

Not as much as they do on the hardware. They would have to charge a high premium on cloners to make up for lost sales.

Considering how diversified Apple is now it can certainly open its game.

The iPod may be Apple's cash cow, but personal computers are the bedrock of it's business and have been since the formation of the company. Screwing with that might make sense for you, but it makes little sense for Apple.

Lastly, what mac fanboys wont admit to is that OS7-9 was a terrible product. They would have failed in the 90s because they were selling garbage and everyone knew it, except loyalists.

Yawn. Mac users were very well aware of the lack of preemptive multitasking and protected memory. What anti-Apple fanboys wont admit is that Windows 95 was no better, NT was a pain in the ass in the usability department and UNIX was only for computer science geeks.

Re:Every time I read an article like this

[aliquis]

Compete as in trying to get the market share vs trying to make as much money as they can from allowing the OS to run on PCs as well.

If additional drivers and support cost more they earn from running on even more hardware why do it?

Not that it's very likely supporting a smaller market would make them more money, but since some people see it as such a huge problem ...

Anyway a HCL would solve it, there already is HCLs for the hacks, how would a real mac be any different? If you want to run it make sure you have the right system, nothing more, nothing less.

Yeah, I know it would sell less macs, I've never said it would be a better idea or suggest that they should even do it. But this part of the thread is about it. (Or they could sell the macs at less profit since they also sell more OS X copies, and thereby eventually sell more macs so the profit of the macs is similar from more sales * less money / sale.

Personally I just know there was clones, I don't know how it turned out. Anyway you can't compare it since those clones where "macs" whereas these machines would be "pcs."
The only reason to buy such a machine back then would have been to run MacOS, and the only reason to choose it over a real mac would be superior hardware / smaller price.

However OS X on a IBM-compatible PC isn't the same thing, most people have not bought their PCs as replacements for Apples because they was a better alternative, most people just happen to have them or would buy them anyway because they don't care much about Apple.

(Almost) each clone running MacOS meant a lost sale for Apple, each PC running MacOS does not mean a lost Macintosh sale for Apple.

If you look at OS sales alone it's more or less impossible to make less money from more sales. Sure it's possible to make less money from not selling the hardware with software vs only selling the software. But yeah, most new users would probably not had considered a real mac anyway.

Why should they force anyone? If OS X is a good product it should sell itself.

As said, how can you NOT make money from OS sales? One additional copy cost nothing to make.

You're asking them to slit their own throats.

I'm not.

First of all I'm not even suggesting that they should sell OS X for PCs. Just discussing how it would affect things.

Second your reasoning about the matter and comparisions is flawed and not valid in this scenario.

Third: Do you think the same is true for all companies which open-sources their product? That don't make much market sense at first, but still seems to work for some of them.

OSX is just another OS..

[peas_n_carrots]

.. that has been ported to x86. No surprise to see it running on netbooks. With enough coaxing it could run on a tiny little Samsung or Sony UMPC which weigh under 1 lb and fit into a shirt pocket.

Re:OSX is just another OS..

[Shag]

Yeah, or even a phone!

Oh, wait...

Re:OSX is just another OS..

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, or even an iPod!

Oh, wait...

Re:Looks like the site is being hosted on an MSI W

[BoldAC]

I've got some of the pages in cache.

      1. Connect your external USB dvd drive to the MSI wind while the computer is off.
      2. Turn on the dvd drive and eject the tray. Place the MSI Leopard disk in the drive and close the tray.
      3. Turn on the MSI wind. After the MSI logo screen, you will be prompted for 5 seconds at the darwin screen. Just tap the space bar within the 5 seconds provided in order to boot from the disk. You will see the installation commence.
      4. The process will take around 5 minutes before you get to the main OSX installation GUI screen. On your way there, you will see a blue screen with the spinning multicolored beach ball as your mouse representation.
      5. Shortly thereafter you will arrive at the language selection screen. Select English and click next.
      6. You will arrive at the Welcome screen for the install. At this point you need to stop and blow away your drive partitions to start fresh. Drag your mouse to the top edge of the screen, and click on âoeUtilitiesâ.
      7. Then go down and select âoeDisk Utilityâ.
      8. Click on your main drive in the left side.
      9. Select âoePartitionâ on the right side.
    10. In âoeVolume Schemeâ, select âoe1 partitionâ.
    11. Assign your disk a name. Then Click on âoeApplyâ. It will take a few seconds to process the disk.
    12. Click on âoeQuit Disk Utilityâ from the menu.
    13. It will take you back to the main installer âoeWelcomeâ page. Click on âoeContinueâ.
    14. Click to accept the licensing agreement.
    15. Select your drive destination which you just partitioned.
    16. Very Important to STOP on the next screen titled âoeInstall Summaryâ. In the lower left hand corner there is a âoeCustomizeâ button. Click it.
    17. Go into Patches, then Kernel, and Uncheck it.
    18. Click on done, and you will be taken back to the âoeInstall Summaryâ page and click on âoeInstallâ.
    19. Sit back and have a cup of coffee while the machine goes thru the whole install process. Don't be alarmed if it loooks like no activity is going on. If you don't see the dvd drive light going, you will notice the HD light on the MSI blinking while installation happens in the background.
    20. Once it is finished and reboots, unplug the dvd usb cable.
    21. This time when the âoeDarwinâ boot screen comes up, don't click space bar. The grey Apple logo screen should come up upon booting. If all went well, core animation and sound were installed, and you should see the welcome intro movie playing smoothly. That's it, you are home free.

Re:Looks like the site is being hosted on an MSI W

[BoldAC]

Pros

Power management/Sleep work normally for the most part. The only difference from actual Apple hardware, is that you need to tap the power button to wake from sleep, as opposed to screen lid, mouse movement or space tap. Fans work properly, same as on a macbook. They kick in on heavy CPU usage and high temps. However, I must say, the device keeps very cool most of the time. Other pluses include Portability & Price. The 6 cell battery gets you around 5 hours of usage.

Working perfectly:

        * Core image
        * Core animation
        * Core audio
        * Video Out & Graphics in general
        * Wired Ethernet
        * Webcam
        * Internal Speakers
        * USB
        * SD Card Slot
        * Sleep
        * Bluetooth
        * Wifi
        * TouchPad
        * Function Keys

Cons

Not able do perform Major OS point upgrades. There is no support for this. Warranty becomes Void. You are totally on your own. Web Cam, Wifi & Bluetooth, need to be activated via the function keys before the OS will see them (very PC like). The trackpad feels a little clunky, however I prefer a small mouse (wired or bluetooth). If you try to save a few dollars by going with the 3 cell battery, you will only get 2 hours of usage.

Not working:

        * Internal Microphone
        * Microphone port
        * Headset port

Any chance?

[MrZaius]

Any chance that this could spur something on Apple's end? The Air is a joke of a machine, with its sole (count 'em - one) expansion port, just begging for failure. It'd sure be nice to have something more Mac Mini & Eee inspired, or the holy of holies - A Fujitsu Lifebook P8240 or Gigabyte M912-inspired Mac.

On a related note, any sign of new Mac Minis?

Re:Any chance?

[Ilgaz]

Macbook Air is a concept machine designed to fit a specific lifestyle and usage style.

If you have a "Mac Pro" or high end iMac running on top of line ISP line with 811.11N network installed at home and live in industrial city with top of line 3G coverage, you will buy and like Macbook Air.

See the Apple Japan store top 10 sellers if you don't believe me.

While speaking about Japan, Casio watches now even come with "atomic time sync" and they are cheaper than $200. Does it make Rolex a failure as it can only display time and date for $3000?

Re:Any chance?

[Anonymous Coward]

No but it does make Rolex buyers every bit as pretentious as Apple customers.

Re:Any chance?

[dreamchaser]

It's not a concept machine. Concept machines are not production items...they are prototypes/proof of concept that may later become a production item.

Re:Any chance?

[PopeRatzo]

Macbook Air is a concept machine designed to fit a specific lifestyle and usage style.

Please tell us more about this "specific lifestyle" so we can go smack the poncy fruit in the head. With love, I mean.

I'm feeling a little lower-class today because my Conde Nast care package hasn't arrived yet.

Re:Any chance?

[PopeRatzo]

Does it make Rolex a failure as it can only display time and date for $3000?

Now that you mention it...

Re:Any chance?

[qubex]

I'm an Apple pundit, but I jump at the opportunity to vent my hatred of the MacBookAir.

You're right: it's a disaster waiting to happen. A friend of mine has one and wrecked the USB port (the manner of failure being essentially irrelevant). Once the port died, the only way of getting information in or out of the machine was the wireless network interface. Digicams and DVDs became off-limits, as did 3G cellphone coverage. In short, it became a stylish paperweight.

Suddenly, my friend understood the concept of "robustness under single failure".

Re:Any chance?

[Ilgaz]

Macbook Air is for people with already working high end desktop and ordinary laptop having high end Apple 811N "time capsule". It costs a lot but it doesn't make buying or shipping one a crime.

Would I buy a Macbook Air? Hell no. I am not even a laptop user. Nokia E90 and Sony Ericsson P1i (which has FRACTION of Air CPU speed and RAM) is good for my usage. They cost more than laptop and I guess I am another guilty filthy rich.

Re:Any chance?

[Ilgaz]

Sometimes even car companies ship cars which were supposed to be concept. They aren't ordinary and doesn't have all features same class car has but people buy them.

Here is example for you. If you compare it to a WV Golf, you will ask "which moron would buy it?"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_TT
They buy it and they are happy.

Re:Any chance?

[mabinogi]

That entirely depends on whether or not the Rolex buyers buy Rolex because the appreciate the style and quality of the watch, or if they buy it so they can conspicuously look at the time in from of people that don't have a Rolex.

Buying something expensive doesn't make you pretentious, being pretentious makes you pretentious.

Re:Any chance?

[PC and Sony Fanboy]

Macbook Air is a concept machine designed to fit a specific lifestyle and usage style.

Yes, the MBA is used to make you look trendy and cool, as you carry it around. It appeals to people with more money than brains. That is the MBA lifestyle.

Re:Any chance?

[PC and Sony Fanboy]

A friend of mine has one and wrecked the USB port (the manner of failure being essentially irrelevant).

Yes, no matter how many times I warned steve (our mutual friend), he was adamant - That MBA was totally hot, and totally into him. After that first night of passion, he was ready for more - but she was ruined.

So, on one hand, Steve was upset because his new GF wasn't able to put out anymore. But on the other hand, he now thinks he's god's gift to women.

Re:Any chance?

[CountBrass]

The Bugatti Phaeron is another example. It costs VW ca £7M to make one, and they sell them for £800K.

Re:Any chance?

[mdwh2]

On that note, the amount of spam I get from Apple is just as much as the amount I get for Rolex watches.

Re:Any chance?

[Average]

One could hope that Apple might expand a little from the MacbookAir.

A lot of its compromise are exactly the compromises I've always preferred. Over the years, I've had old Powerbook Duos, Toshiba Porteges, Dell "X" series, and now, a couple of generations of IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad "X" series. I keep coming back to 12" screen, one-spindle laptops. They're perfect, especially since WiFi.

But, the MBAir is too far. Give me even two USB ports and a docking port, and it might very well be my next laptop. Apple were the kings of Docking back in the Duo days. It's still a good idea.

Re:Any chance?

[pandrijeczko]

Macbook Air is a concept machine designed to fit a specific lifestyle and usage style.

Damn right! The "I have far too much money & need to show off my gadgets in Starbucks" lifestyle!

Re:Any chance?

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps you could introduce your friend to the concept of "getting it fixed".
If it's still under warranty it will be possible to do that without additional expense, unless the manner of failure isn't quite so irrelevant.

Re:Any chance?

[NeoSkandranon]

Right. Rolex products are jewelery, first and foremost--people seem to miss that fact when they make jokes about them.

Re:Any chance?

[Fnord666]

Does it make Rolex a failure as it can only display time and date for $3000?

Rolexes are the "I am Rich" iPhone application of watches. Ditto for Mont Blanc pens.

Re:Any chance?

[Anonymous Coward]

A Rolex has gold and diamonds in it. A Macintosh doesn't. This makes your comparison null and void.

Re:Any chance?

[SpooForBrains]

1. arrange repair
2. retrieve data from Time Machine backup

What dp you mean your friend didn't have a backup? He's working on a machine with one USB port. Is he a moron?

(Not a Mac user here, but surely these things are obvious)

Re:Any chance?

[Ilgaz]

I am not a laptop guy but MBA lack of CPU speed (although better than Atom) can be masked with a special usage style already built into OS X (especially Leopard). You need at least 811N wireless though with a very speedy line.
I am speaking about these:

http://developer.apple.com/hardwaredrivers/hpc/xgrid_intro.html (XGrid)
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1294717/macmost_now_77_leopard_screen_sharing/ (Screen Sharing)
http://www.apple.com/remotedesktop/

I am not a laptop customer but you can be sure I would beat any "high speed bulky" laptop using such technologies. For example if my P1i can't render a video (smart phone), I mail it to my mail with a special subject line. My Quad G5 renders it and mails back when ready. All done via Unix layer and ffmpeg combined with Automator. Apple ships the device, you can't blame them if they don't use it right or use for showing off.

Re:Any chance?

[MrZaius]

If the Rolex is designed in a manner that makes it far more likely to fail than the Casio, yes. Of course it does. Silly question, really. The only reason I labeled the MacBook Air a "joke" was its single USB port and lack of any other wired peripheral support. Otherwise I'd have labeled it an overpriced device that I wasn't even remotely interested in, like a Rolex. See the difference?

Re:Any chance?

[Serious Callers Only]

Yeah, I had a friend bought a laptop with only one screen - crazy!

Re:Any chance?

[Anonymous Coward]

For me, I'm buying a mac mini to run Linux on. I might leave OSX on just to play with. The main reason is that it is one of the better built ultra small boxes out there. I just get a kick out of sething that small driving my 24" monitor.

Watch the video here

[Anonymous Coward]

Seems like the site is down. you can also watch the same video here OS X on MSI Wind PC: http://www.linuxhaxor.net/2008/09/27/30-cool-acer-aspire-one-hacks/

slip the old..

[sqldr]

There's a pretty hot receptionist here. Boy would I like to "slip a mac into her lab coat pocket"

More OS X on Installations on Small Laptops

[wehe]

This is not the first and only OS X installation attempt on a UMPC. There is a short survey of installation guides for MAC OS X on (small) laptops and notebooks provided by TuxMobil. There are guides for the ASUS Eee PC 701, the OQO e2, the Lenovo ThinkPad X61 and others. More submissions are welcome though.

Re:More OS X on Installations on Small Laptops

[Anonymous Coward]

this is very old news, their has even been a custom installation disk for the wind for over three months now (with all of the drives installed), details here;

http://forums.msiwind.net/mac/first-post-updated-leopard-installer-disc-for-msi-wind-t857.html

Re:Looks like the site is being hosted on an MSI W

[pavs.ma]

OK posting this link second time, previous link is deleted? At the bottom of the page there is a video of MSI wind with OSX in action even though the URL/subject of the article says acer aspire One. http://www.linuxhaxor.net/2008/09/27/30-cool-acer-aspire-one-hacks/

Another Vibrant site

[argent]

And here's another site using Vibrant's in-text ads, with the "disable" tab turned off.

Vibrant's in-text ads are the most annoying online advertising scheme since X-10. But bad as they are you used to be able to turn them off... now increasingly often the "disable" tab doesn't show up when you try to do that. Sites that use this technology should not be supported by Slashdot eyeballs any more than spammers should. And just because you can use adblock to hide them doesn't excuse this abusive advertising trick... ignoring it because adblock works is like ignoring spam because you have a good spam filter: we know where that leads.

Re:Another Vibrant site

[Fumus]

If everyone in the world had a good spam filter, and/or adblock, do you really think there would be annoying ads or spam any more? Spam and annoying ads exist because of the minuscule percent of society who actually click the links and buy stuff.

If everyone had adblock by default, I believe it would be banned by the government.

Re:Another Vibrant site

[aussie_a]

I view ads (and sometimes even click them) to support the websites I view and enjoy. Its called paying for what you use (in this case paying with your attention, however brief).

Re:Another Vibrant site

[Fumus]

Oh, but you are talking about buying indie games to support the producers. I'm talking about boycotting DRM-infested games which deny to run in I have some software which the publishers find questionable.

Re:Another Vibrant site

[aussie_a]

I'm talking about boycotting DRM-infested games which deny to run in I have some software which the publishers find questionable.

Sounds more like to me your downloading the DRM-infested software from piratebay and applying a crack.

Boycotting would be not visiting the website. You're advocating visiting it with adblock.

Re:Another Vibrant site

[argent]

If everyone in the world had a good spam filter, and/or adblock, do you really think there would be annoying ads or spam any more?

If you assume a false statement, you can prove anything. This argument has been used to ridicule active anti-spam efforts for over 15 years now, and it's no more likely now than when the "Green Card" ads were first run.

Re:Another Vibrant site

[argent]

Your analogy is like instant coffee.

Re:Another Vibrant site

[Legion_SB]

I view ads (and sometimes even click them) to support the websites I view and enjoy. Its called paying for what you use (in this case paying with your attention, however brief).

And that's what Adblock's whitelisting capability is for.

Re:Another Vibrant site

[aussie_a]

You don't get it, I view all ads. If I don't want to view the ads, I don't visit the website.

Apple will be as displeased as usual

[David Gerard]

I can't see Apple being well pleased with this. They have a reputation to sustain!

In any case, OS X on netbooks is old hat. You can put it on an original Eee, for instance.

OS X really does work fine on general hardware. If your hardware is something Apple has a driver for. So, a bit like Linux without anything like as broad a support base, then.

(I personally prefer FreeBSD, but Linux supports my laptop immaculately.)

Re:Apple will be as displeased as usual

[salimma]

So OS X on white box is just like Solaris. Good OS, poor driver availability. The difference is that Sun actually *wants* you to use Solaris.

The point?

[Ilgaz]

Yes, as OS X Intel runs on same x86 CPU, it can work. No need to run a lab for that.

When will people understand that OS X and hardware in total gives "Apple experience" and FreeBSD 6 with WindowMaker/WINE is a way better choice for such portable?

OS X is not only a X86 OS. It becomes meaningful when hardware matches too.

I bet Sony Vaio can run OS X too but I would run Windows or Linux on that machine. It will work way better than a hacked OS.

Therotically as it runs same CPU and most of mobile chip manufacturers are common, my Nokia and Sony Ericsson smart phones can run iPhone OS rather than Symbian they come with. If someone spent needless time for such a hardcore hack and shipped, would I install? Hell no. iPhone experience is broken right when hardware part is gone and smallest hack has to be applied.

Can't they work on meaningful things such as enhancing the linux/bsd support and performance rather than making people joke with MSI?

Re:The point?

[Ash-Fox]

iPhone experience is broken out of the box, it's even worse when the hardware part is gone and smallest hack has to be applied.

There, fixed that sentence for you.

Re:The point?

[Ilgaz]

I am a Symbian user. I am not defending their scheme of doing things but one gotta admit it is a unique concept in smart phone and can't be copied.

It is mix of hardware and software. In fact it is hardware designed by a software company to run their software.

Re:The point?

[marcuz]

i dont care about apple experience. i agree that running osx on some ee pc is ridiculous but for example using it installed on some generic desktop computer does perfectly makes sense. i wouldn't trade my perfectly tuned rig for any crappy mac hw. my rig is way cheaper, more silent, easily upgradable etc... i really love my osx and i really hate apple's marketing (necessary evil).

Re:The point?

[Ilgaz]

Cheaper more silent and easily upgradable is Windows. I can make a PC which beats hell out of OS X in 1 day at most. It will need a comprehensive security solution and a high quality Windows maintenance tool though.

It will run Windows of course. Sounds strange? No' I have chosen limited amount but quality software accompanied with a quality hardware myself. I am not the average "OMG I got spyware, let me move to Apple" switcher.

Let me give GPU example as it is the most visible one. If you think it is "Apple" that stops you from buying a cheap video card to Mac and running it smoothly, think again. ATI and NVIDIA duopoly are the ones who doesn't fire XCode and whatever they use for firmware code and fire up a new IOKit project for driver. So what happens? "OMG robber Apple. A Graphics card is $400" Hell no, it is ATI or NVidia putting that price to that card for a shitty outsource written Firmware excuse.

There is no "Apple evil plan" there, it is Microsoft and cheap Taiwan junk manufacturers forming a Windows gang. Also idiotic manufacturers like Matrox/Creative not leaving Adobe/MS tail like it helps them at all.

Re:The point?

[marcuz]

Windows from the user interface (UI) perspective is crap in comparing to osx and thats what matters for me the most. I have been using dos, windows, linux and finally switched to mac not because I dont know how to set things right but just because I no longer want to waste time setting anything up. However windows xp I have to use in work is not bad from the maintenance perspective (administrators cares, not me) but UI is just not that good. It takes me more time to do simple things than on my desktop at home - drag'n'drop just works. I agree with the things you wrote concerning GPUs. But what I want is not just to replace GPU but replacing CPU, the cooler or anything I want - which is not possible in apple's machines without breaking warranty (or is it?). I have huge heatsink on my CPU, I have fanless PSU, etc ...(I use my pc from the living room)... from this standpoint, apple's hardware is not good. so its a pity they didn't release their os for generic machines.. but they are getting there. I will happily pirate mac os x86 till then and apple won't get a dime. and I am not sorry :) I don't feel like I should be.

SC Johnson will be as displeased too

[Dystopian Rebel]

As this combination of hardware and software will inevitably be called WindeX.

Creating a machine?

[YourExperiment]

I think I must have misunderstood the summary. In what way does installing a piece of piece of software onto something "create a machine smaller and lighter than the MacBook Air"?

Also, does installing software on a machine really void the warranty? If you reload the original OS from recovery disks before sending it back, how would the manufacturer even know?

It's strange, /. summaries are usually so clear and well-written.

Re:Creating a machine?

[larry bagina]

1. The MSI Wind is smaller and lighter than the MacBook air
2. The directions involve opening the MSI up to install an extra gig of memory and replace the wifi with something OS-X can support. It's not just a change in software.
3. You must tbe new here.

Re:Creating a machine?

[diesel66]

Opening the case to swap out the wifi card is what voids the warranty.

I agree that slashdot summaries are occasionally sub-optimal, but this is usually solved by RTFA. :)

No, I am not new here.

Re:Creating a machine?

[Anonymous Coward]

4. You must be new here.

I understand, English can be tricky at times.

Re:Creating a machine?

[PC and Sony Fanboy]

'English' is much clearer than 'American', unfortunately the two are visually similar. Only upon close inspection of the meaning does the difference become clear. Just be happy that not all the summaries are written in this strange, foreign tongue.

Re:Creating a machine?

[Kankraka]

Funny, my EEE 1000H has a nice access panel on the back where everything upgradeable on the machine is presented right there for me to tinker with, no warranty voiding at all.

Apple users are safe

[Ilgaz]

I suggest you act like/simulate that you are a top of line Mac Pro workstation owner and shopping for a new GPU (graphics card).

They run Intel right? Industry standard port too... Check how many GPU choices you have and their prices, support. Also simulate that you bought the device and have low FPS and look to ATI/NVIDIA support site. Don't waste so much time on that since they will eventually send you to Apple.

Sound is similar too...

This is a Wintel puppet IT scene and even having unheard (for Apple after '95) market share explosion doesn't matter. I also wonder what would happen if I installed a Realtek el cheapo NIC to this Quad G5 instead of Broadcom Apple installed. On P4 PC, it had 20% performance hit. I bought it because it had Windows driver and support. As Realtek geniuses can't download free XCode and code for OS X, we are saved.

Re:Apple users are safe

[CountBrass]

I tried running your comment through Bablefish but even after trying all the major European languages and even Esperanto I couldn't get your post to translate into English.

Re:Apple users are safe

[Anonymous Coward]

This post brought to you by ENGRISH.

Here we go again

[paiute]

"OMG, I would totally buy OSX in a second and run it on my box. Why doesn't Apple become a software company? Everyone would drop MS in a second. Apple would make a lot of money on volume."

etc
etc

This is why few boards of directors come to Slashdot looking for their next CEO.

Re:Here we go again

[NoPantsJim]

"few boards of directors" implies that some do, I'm gonna go not buy some of their stock.

MAC OS for Virtualization?

[Average]

My thought is that, just maybe, Apple should consider a license of Mac OS for Virtualizations. Pick one platform... VMWare, xVM, whatever.

This would solve the "but there are a billion network cards and a billion video cards out there" argument. Inside the VM, there is only the one configuration.

Sure, it wouldn't be the world's speediest thing. But, it would get a lot of people thinking about Mac OS part-time. Some of us Linux people who have a Windows window in the corner (when absolutely necessary) would ditch it most of the time for a legit copy of Mac. If I had to run a shrink-wrap app, I'd buy the Mac version if it ran well. I'd also be more willing to develop and test for Mac.

Too cannibalistic of their hardware sales, though?

Re:MAC OS for Virtualization?

[Anonymous Coward]

They already do, but it's for Server only. The Server version of Mac OS X is 4-5 times more expensive than the regular version of Mac OS X.

Re:MAC OS for Virtualization?

[salimma]

IIRC, VMware is working on virtualizing OS X on OS X. Will be interesting to see if Apple would allow them to release it for their other products as well, perhaps as an (expensive) add-on.

The Mac premium is ridiculous. VMware Workstation and Server are free products; Fusion is not. Not to mention the video cards, as other posters have noted. And what with making new SDKs and Java releases only work on the latest OS?

Re:MAC OS for Virtualization?

[hawaiian717]

VMware Workstation and Server are free products; Fusion is not.

VMware Server and Player are free. Workstation (which runs on Windows and Linux hosts) is $189. Fusion (which is essentially Workstation for OS X hosts) is $79.99.

Re:MAC OS for Virtualization?

[salimma]

Ah yes. Got my products a bit mixed up.

Where does this hate come from?

[sgant]

We're talking about computers here. This isn't a religion. This isn't anything life altering or anything like that. These are computers.

Where does the "Just because you have your head so far up Steve Jobs's arse" vitriol come from?

Come on...

Re:Where does this hate come from?

[MrHanky]

Exactly. Which is why I flame these people who see life-changing circumstances in Apple's schemes, and complain about "Windows tax" as if their own idol wasn't the biggest of all offenders. I wish the fanboy idiots could just shut up and leave the discussion to someone else. Especially when what they have to say isn't even remotely true.

Re:Where does this hate come from?

[PC and Sony Fanboy]

Where does the "Just because you have your head so far up Steve Jobs's arse" vitriol come from?

Because it is fun teasing fanatics - religious or not, they're still a bunch of crazies.

Re:Where does this hate come from?

[CountBrass]

That's true. I take great joy in pointing out to rabid atheists that they're a bunch of religous nut jobs.

Re:Where does this hate come from?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because it is fun teasing fanatics - religious or not, they're still a bunch of crazies.

So, "PC and Sony Fanboy", have you sought professional help yet?

Re:Where does this hate come from?

[PC and Sony Fanboy]

Pick your delusional group and flame away.

Americans?

Re:Where does this hate come from?

[Anonymous Coward]

I know, in America we say the word ass.

Re:Where does this hate come from?

[PC and Sony Fanboy]

Yes, they recommended that I make a ridiculously named slashdot account that would make mac fanboys crawl out of the walls to point out how stupid it is to be a fanboy.

Kinda funny, actually... but they all seem to post as a/c.

MSI wind warranty

[damn_registrars]

doing so voids all kinds of warranties

I am not very familiar with the MSI Wind myself, but it sounds to me like these guy have may just broken some wind?

Re:MSI wind warranty

[PC and Sony Fanboy]

It is the wind - as a clock is wound, this computer winds up. Kinda like a little toy for big kids. Calling it the wind (as the wind blows) would be asking for detrimental name calling.

Living in the past

[sleeponthemic]

but hey, now you can slip a Mac into a lab coat pocket!

You're living in the past. Modern day lab coats can handle atleast 2 big macs, no problems (no void of warranty, either).

(The experiments conducted to verify these results were done for purely academic purposes, of course).

coat pocket?

[Anonymous Coward]

> but hey, now you can slip a Mac into a lab coat pocket!

Now? There's been a Mac that fits in a pocket for over a year now.

It's called 'iPod Touch' (or iPhone)

What I fail to see...

[BrokenHalo]

... is the comparison (in the submission) between this and the MacBook Air. The actual dimensions of the beast in question appear to be similar to or slightly larger than the current 10" MacBook being offered. The submission mentions putting it in his lab-coat pocket, which seems out of the question unless you get your lab-coats made by the local tent-maker.

This would be a really useful exercise, however, if it could be applied to the real sub-notebook class of machine.

Re:What I fail to see...

[vipw]

Which 10" MacBook are you referring to?

Fruity Users?! Duh...

[PC and Sony Fanboy]

... Isn't that a given, when talking about mac users?

WTF? 10" Macbook?

[Wooky_linuxer]

10" Macbook? Are you Marty McFly by any chance?

Re:WTF? 10" Macbook?

[BrokenHalo]

My bad, I was referring to the 12". But my point remains: this box is quite thick by comparison.

Re:WTF? 10" Macbook?

[Arcady13]

There is no 12" MacBook either.

Re:WTF? 10" Macbook?

[Barsteward]

This box will be in good company then..... :o)

envelope?

[Anonymous Coward]

"...now you can slip a Mac into a lab coat pocket!"

How about an envelope?

Well, they do sell it.

[Wooky_linuxer]

You can buy a boxed version of Leopard anywhere. Sure, their EULA forbids one from installing in anything that is not Apple hardware. Not sure how would that hold up in a court if, say, Apple sued someone who installed OS X in his MSI Wind. BTW, how is the Psystar lawsuit going on?

Re:Well, they do sell it.

[mc900ftjesus]

If that's in the EULA, they can't enforce it. That's like selling someone a recipe book and on the inside cover of the book it says "You are only allowed to use McCormick Brand spices for these recipes or you will be in violation of the user agreement."

In all honesty, I can't see why AMD hasn't filed a lawsuit against Apple for artificially locking them out of their hardware sales and granting Intel a monopoly in Mac products.

Re:Well, they do sell it.

[Anonymous Coward]

In all honesty, I can't see why AMD hasn't filed a lawsuit against Apple for artificially locking them out of their hardware sales and granting Intel a monopoly in Mac products.

Presumably because AMD believe that the competition authorities would require Apple to have a monopoly share** of the Personal Computer market (rather than the Mac market) to be subject to relevant competition laws. As long as they are regarded as a small part of a larger market (10%) they are in most/all countries at liberty to have sweetheart deals with who they like. Attacking from the Intel end (where Intel have say 70% of the market) would be more likely to be profitable, but there are already various (perhaps more significant) cases in progress against Intel and maybe AMD wants to see how they turn out before opening another front.

** Monopoly share could be as little as 30% or so of the PC market so Apple *might* be subject to this if it was very sucessful.

Re:Well, they do sell it.

[Pope]

Because monopolies aren't illegal.

Re:Well, they do sell it.

[Uberbah]

In all honesty, I can't see why AMD hasn't filed a lawsuit against Apple for artificially locking them out of their hardware sales and granting Intel a monopoly in Mac products.

Because every company has a monopoly on the products it makes. Ford has a monopoly on Mustangs. GM has a monopoly on Corvettes. Neither has a monopoly on the car market, just as Apple doesn't have a monopoly on operating systems, computer hardware or MP3 players.

Re:Well, they do sell it.

[cp.tar]

You can buy a boxed version of Leopard anywhere. Sure, their EULA forbids one from installing in anything that is not Apple hardware.

Wasn't that "Apple-branded hardware"?

And they do give you those quaint stickers you can use to brand any piece of hardware...

Re:Well, they do sell it.

[harry666t]

I've heard rumors that OS X runs well on AMD CPUs (although these were just rumors; never cared to research the topic).

Re:Well, they do sell it.

[Wooky_linuxer]

You analogy is not quite right (extra points though for being a car analogy). It would be the same if GM sold Corvette's tires and forbid them to be used in a Mustang, perhaps with a few adaptations.

Re:Well, they do sell it.

[Uberbah]

Well, to continue to beat the dead Pinto analogy to death, it's more like complaining that tires made for an F-150 wont work on your Corvette. :)

But anyway, I think the reason Apple went with Intel instead of AMD is that the former had better mobile processors. I also doubt that Apple has an exclusive contract with Intel (why would they?), so if AMD builds a better mousetrap again, I don't see why Apple couldn't offer both, just as they did with ATI and Nvidia graphics cards.

Re:Well, they do sell it.

[Your.Master]

It has a very specific meaning. It does not mean "has an Apple label on it". It means "Apple put a label on it".

Re:Well, they do sell it.

[Wooky_linuxer]

You are probably right, and I'd say Apple picked the right supplier. But that is beside the point. It is not about Apple choosing Intel over AMD, or Apple not supplying a set of AMD compatible kexts. It is all about the EULA which forbids you to intall it in non-apple hardware (or as someone put it, non-apple branded hardware) even if it does run. Ok, you got to modify some files in the OS to get it to run, and one might say that infringes on Apple copyright. Perhaps. Nevertheless, the statement in the EULA that forbids you to even try and install a boxed software you bought is what is under discussion here, and I needn't say I think it's completely wrong. BTW, I do have a Macbook at home. When I was to put together a PC, I considered making it a hackintosh, but decided it was not worth the hassle.

Re:Well, they do sell it.

[Uberbah]

Good thing EULA's are worthless and unenforceable then. :) Even if they put "can only be used with an Apple branded machine" on the box, unless you make an agreement in writing before making a purchase, it's unenforceable. I'm thinking about building a hackintosh once Apple adds ZFS support to Leopard, as I want a file server with four 1 terabyte hard drives but want my total cost to be less than $1000, and a Mac Pro starts out at $2800 before I even add the drives. As Apple has gotten close to $20,000 out of my family since my mother bought an Apple IIe back in the day, I don't feel too guilty. And I don't think they have to worry too much about piracy as there are technical hurdles in building a hackintosh, and each hoop to jump through cuts down on the number of unauthorized machines.

Re:Well, they do sell it.

[PsychoElf]

Not just rumors. It runs pretty good with the right supporting hardware. Just as good as on intel. I had it running 2 days ago on my intel based laptop but decided Ubuntu is better for my needs. Just google "insanely mac" if you want to know more, their forums have a plethora (El Guapo) of information.

Re:They really seem pointless

[Anonymous Coward]

That's what condoms are for, moron.

Good job with the homophobia, though, that'll get you real far in life. You can grow up to be just like so many Republican senators.

(and then screw little kids when nobody's looking)

You will buy it and like it, capish?

[Anonymous Coward]

>you will buy and like Macbook Air.

Good puppy, now roll over.
I guess Im not dont fit the mac lifestyle.
I just love how the fanbois repeat the sales pitches word for word.

And I like buttons.

more points and reponses to yours

[Joe The Dragon]

1) revenue would take a big hit if people switches from Apple branded hw to others.

Yes but they will get revenue from people buying mac os x as well people who are not buying mac due to the lack of hardware that fits them.

2) shipping fewer units would mean higher unit costs and lower margins on those products

Apple can come out with products that are better priced at lower margins and ship more units and mac os x shipping units will go up.

3) support costs would go up as Apple would have to ensure it worked on a variety oh hardware combos with products they currently do not support but are common such as WiFi cards from various manufacturers, or
4) they cut a deal with say Dell and HP but then they will need to significantly drop prices and stop update the build every time an internal component changes

They just need to add drives for common chip sets as most chipset / video cards are based on the same base chips and with more people with mac osx that will make more drivers come out.

5. If apple come out with a good priced desktop mid tower they you will see more mac video cards and more drivers of other pci-e cards come out.

6. Apple needs better priced laptops the $1500 mac book black should have a bigger screen and / or a real video card. $2000 just to get a 15 screen and low-mid range video card is too high.

7. Apple can keep the mini but drop it to $500 and put a DVDRW in the base system with a easier to open case.

Re:more points and reponses to yours

[Registered Coward v2]

1) revenue would take a big hit if people switches from Apple branded hw to others.

Yes but they will get revenue from people buying mac os x as well people who are not buying mac due to the lack of hardware that fits them.

Yes, but the revenue from an OS sale is a fraction of that from a machine; they'd have to sell at least 10 MacOS licenses for every Mac hw sale they lost to make up the revenue hit; which I doubt would happen. That's teh crux pf the problem - would selling a stand alone MacOS canabalize existing sales or result in incremental revenue? My guess is the former.

2) shipping fewer units would mean higher unit costs and lower margins on those products

Apple can come out with products that are better priced at lower margins and ship more units and mac os x shipping units will go up..

So margins and revenue go down as teh result and it's good for Apple? How? Their stock would take a real hit from that. Considering they could lower margins today without introducing a new OS clone but haven't indicates they feel teh revenue boost woul dnot make up for the margin hit.

3) support costs would go up as Apple would have to ensure it worked on a variety oh hardware combos with products they currently do not support but are common such as WiFi cards from various manufacturers, or
4) they cut a deal with say Dell and HP but then they will need to significantly drop prices and stop update the build every time an internal component changes

They just need to add drives for common chip sets as most chipset / video cards are based on the same base chips and with more people with mac osx that will make more drivers come out.

I think ensuring comapatibility would involve a lot more tahn merely building in support for generic chipsets - not to mention the performance hit generic drivers might take over custoim ones. That's the real problem with Apple introducing a clone MacOS - how do you keep the "It just works" experience when tehre are an infinite permutation of possible builds in the market without becoming the mess that Windows is? If you tailor it to a particular brand; you face price presure to volume license it; cutting the margin and competing head to head with your higher priced machines.

It simply makes no sense for Apple to do this - they are a premium goods niche manufacturer, not a volume seller. To try to compete with MS at their own game is very risky; I doubt Apple wants to bet their company on taht, especially since tehy see the market not as for PCs but as a total entertainment experience.

For those wanting OS X on PC

[ITJC68]

There is a much better solution. It is called Linux. No M$ tax or software. The only issue would be which distro (flavor) you want to run as there are many. I have tested a MAC running their latest OS and it is nice but Linux does just about everything and doesn't cost near as much and can run on home built hardware too boot (no pun intended LOL).

The generic chipsets are not that generic and the

[Joe The Dragon]

The generic chipsets are not that generic and the video cards have good drivers from ATI and NVIDIA.

The p35, p45, x38, x48, g35, g45, and more are all just about the same.

smaller and lighter? really?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm pretty sure the MSI Wind was "a machine that is smaller and lighter than a Macbook Air" prior to OS X installation.

Why bother downgrading to an inferior OS?

[abakus]

Maybe its for "educational purpose"? Otherwise I don't see any practical reason to do that.

Warding of Mac Zeolotry?

[Skuld-Chan]

Ever notice how everyone has to write articles about apple with the preface "I'm a mac fan" or "fyi - I'm typing this on a mac"? Even this article starts out "Let me preface this by saying that I consider myself an Apple fan".

I assume this is intended to ward off Mac Zealots.

Oh and FYI - I'm typing this on a Dell T5400 running XP and even though I have a Mac (3 of them no less) I like Windows better.

Piracy

[Anonymous Coward]

The exercise was done solely for academic purposes

Which actually means (though you side step this fact in the article) you're actually using a pirated patched OSX.

Nothing new to see here folks, move along.

Note on Mac OS X Liscense

[Anonymous Coward]

Note on Mac OS X Liscense: It says 'Apple Labeled' in the EULA, so I put a Apple sticker on my Hacintosh. Next project is to scrape out a blue and white G3, and put a CoreDuo in, and get it running.

"They very last thing they was is an ugly square chinese box proclaiming to be an apple." Like if I put a core duo motherboard is say... a 7200? Wonder what they would say to putting one in an Apple ][?

Deal-breaker:

[StarKruzr]

* Headset port

No way would I do OS X on a machine like this if that was a restriction.

just about everything

[krischik]

It was that little gap which made me move from Linux to Max OS X. And the endless amount of fine tuning Linux needed.

Now I can play Videos without hunting down codecs which aren't included in the distribution "for legal reason".

Now I can buy a WebCam without the need to make a 3 day internet research to find out which WebCam might work with Linux.

Only to find out that while the WebCam in principle works with Linux and Skype just got video support in Linux - the particular combination is a no go.

And the last point is the most important one. Quite possible that I get several replies telling me how great Skype Video works on there computer, on there distro, with there WebCam.

But tell you what: It does not matter. It must work with every distro - reliably. And then companies might start to add "Linux compatible" stickers on there WebCam boxes. And then is Linux is finally ready for - not the Desktop - but the SOHO market.

And the SOHO market is the battle field where the OS wars are fought. IBM with OS/2 noticed to late. And Linux does have a good chance here. Only Linux is entrenched in it's own KDE vs GNOME battles while it is more important to get things to just work - which includes Linux more compatible sticker on shrink wrap products.

Martin

No Desktop CPU's

[krischik]

Indeed Apple does not use Desktop CPU's at all - Most Apple systems use mobile CPUs while MacPro and XServe use Server (XEON) CPUs.