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Two Europeans Indicted In US For 2003 DDOS Attacks
narramissic writes "In a continuation of the first successful U.S. investigation ever into DDOS attacks, Axel Gembe, 25, of Germany and Lee Graham Walker, 24, of England were indicted Thursday by a grand jury in Los Angeles, California, on one count of conspiracy and one count of intentionally damaging a computer system. The two men were allegedly hired by Jay R. Echouafni, owner of Orbit Communication, a Massachusetts-based company that sold home satellite systems, to carry out DDOS attacks against two of Orbit's competitors."
It takes a genius to hire a couple of people to do your dirty work. It takes even greater genius to accept money to damage computer systems, from a complete stranger who would never rat you out.
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
It's a criminal investigation. If Company A vandalizes Company B, do you expect Company B to "bring their own evidence to court"?
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
Perhaps it wasn't that easy to figure out the real $ource of the attack. --I am very curious as to what may happen to Orbit though.
... always stop around 1995 DOS attacks or you'll be indicted !
Better safe than sorry !
May contain traces of nut.
Made from the freshest electrons.
This seems like a good time to consider revoking Orbit Communications' corporate charter.
For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
Why is this marked insightful? What exactly insightful in asking why federal investigators became involved in a case that falls under a federal criminal statute?
and all they had to do was post a made-up "home satellite" article to slashdot.
Judging by the fact that the Grand Jury is in California, the crime was committed against a party in another state. Thus federal jurisdiction.
Call me dense, but how did it damage the system? It unreasonably increased load on it, meaning it couldn't handle all its requests, but afterwards the system was still, one assumes, functioning.
Those using pirated Tinysoft signatures(TM) are a real threat to society and should all be thrown in jail.
AFAIK Germany doesn't extradite its citizens due to constitutional constrains, put there after the Nazi rule.
I'm aging rapidly, I bought a new game and had no idea if my machine was good for it.
Based on the UK Govs attitude to bending over whenever the US Gov requests someone to be extradited I wouldn't want to be in Lee Graham Walker's shoes right now.
While I think it's a good thing that international cyber-vandalism (or whatever you want to call it) is being investigated in regular courts (instead of some super-world thingy), I think the most interesting part is the charges against Lee Graham Walker. According to the article, his crime was using IRC to chat with Gembe about the botnet's code. Now, I'm not a legal expert or even legal savvy, but that sounds like a charge that would easily apply to a lot of geeks who IM with geeks short on ethics. I don't think it's being misused in this case, but it does sound like a pretty wide net.
The government can't save you.
They have an exception for EU member states and international courts, so the US is out.
I'm aging rapidly, I bought a new game and had no idea if my machine was good for it.
Lee Graham Walker, a British citizen, and the German malware programmer Axel Gembe have appeared in a federal court in San Francisco...
I'm guessing yes.
This article also notes that Gembe may have been the HL2 thief, and that he's been on the hook for this DDoS attack since 2006: this was just their (first?) court appearance for it.
I have no particular premonition about how this will all turn out. On the one hand, German courts were taking it easy on him as long as he straightened his life out... on the other, the FBI with its "first successful investigation" into a DDoS may wish to make example of. We'll see.
That which does not kill us makes us... st
You're wrong. Germany does extradite citizens, as long as a couple of conditions are met.
Specifically, the suspect must have committed a crime that is punishable in both countries, must not be tortured or executed after the extradition, needs a fair trial and so on...
satellite companies keep getting into trouble.
that's why I went back and looked up the German Grundgesetz.
Artikel 16
(2) Kein Deutscher darf an das Ausland ausgeliefert werden. Durch Gesetz kann eine abweichende Regelung für Auslieferungen an einen Mitgliedstaat der EuropÃischen Union oder an einen internationalen Gerichtshof getroffen werden, soweit rechtsstaatliche GrundsÃtze gewahrt sind.
I'm aging rapidly, I bought a new game and had no idea if my machine was good for it.
The post offers no insights, it barely even makes a point for that matter, instead the post just makes a statement with a rhetorical question. If anything someone should mod it "no shit Sherlock"
Should of hired the captain midnight guy or the max headroom to take over there satellite signal.
"No German can be extradited to another country. The law can create a different arrangement for extraditions to the EU or an international court, as long as fair trial [rule of law] is guaranteed."
[not a german native speaker, apologies for any mistakes]
It really depends on the type of hardware involved.
One example - Limited write memory can be intensely overwritten until it's worn out and rendered useless, resulting in financial loss.
I don't know if it has anything to do with this case, or if any damage actually occurred.
Just speaking in terms of technicalities.
This DoS or DDoS is going to kill all of us, electronically. If this DoS or DDoS doesn't stop we will be at the mercy of these female donkey anal orifices. We cannot let these people go or their "handlers" (the people who hire and control them) go also. We need to stop this or this will stop the entire internet working since everyone will DoS or DDoS each other and we, the non-participants, will suffer from these stupid and total waste of network resource games. We need to find and get most of these people who start these male bovine feces so we all can use the internet.
Oddly enough, Google very quickly comes up with an article about Extradition Treaty between Germany and the USA originally signed in 1978, with a Supplement to same in 1986, and another couple of Supplements in 2006.
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
This is for "other citizens", e. g. a US citizen arrested in Germany. Germany does not extradite to countries with the death penalty, so every extradition to the US needs a "we won't seek the death penalty" waiver from the US.
I'm aging rapidly, I bought a new game and had no idea if my machine was good for it.
On other reports (even the BBC), the British man is described as hailing from Bleys Bolton. So why does this place not turn up one hit on Google? All 41 hits I saw when I just tried a quoted search related to these indictment reports. We are sure these people exist, aren't we? Has anyone in the UK heard of Bleys Bolton? I sure haven't. Neither has Google Maps.
True. Except when it is a civil matter The Man acts as a mediator between parties and/or settles the dispute with a trial. In my state the Docket would read "[Party 1] vs [Party 2]".
In the case of a felony, The Man would be the second party. The docket in my state would read "The State of Ohio vs. [Party 2]"
Only in very special matters is there ever "The United States vs. [Party 2]" in which case Party 2 is fucked for even having their name on the paper.
The game.
You got that right (IAANS - I am a native speaker).
Hans, bist Du es?
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
s/Germany/Israel
Here is the constitution (offical translation)
Sorry, here.
Sorry, so it is possible at all that a German citizens gets extradicted to the US? I am shocked!
Catch him in another country, Germans love to go on vacations.
But, joke aside, my guess is the Germans will probably prosecute him anyway for what he did, what would proscribe prosecution here under double jeopardy.
I'm aging rapidly, I bought a new game and had no idea if my machine was good for it.
Hmmmmm.... let's see. There are three satellite service companies in town, and 2 of them were just attacked.
Well, I guess I am stumped. I give up. Who might have done such a thing?
My God!...
Slashdot....
It's full of lawyers!
...in this whole affair is that the UK gouverment handed a UK citizen over to the USA for something he was accused of in the USA, not the UK.
The very concept of handing over your own citizens to a different country is absolutely disgusting.
Free PC version of ChipWits at http://www.breueronline.de/klaus/chipwits/