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British MoD Stunned By Massive Data Loss

Master of Transhuman writes "Seems like nobody can keep their data under wraps these days. On the heels of the World Bank piece about massive penetrations of their servers, the British Ministry of Defense has lost a hard drive with the personal details of 100,000 serving personnel in the British armed forces, and perhaps another 600,000 applicants. This comes on the heels of the MoD losing 658 of its laptops over the past four years and 26 flash drives holding confidential information. Apparently the MoD outsources this stuff to EDS, which is under fire for not being able to confirm that the data was or was not encrypted."

46 of 166 comments (clear)

  1. Hardly 3 hours by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Hardly 3 hours since the last post on /. about
    UK Govt wanting to spy.

    1. Re:Hardly 3 hours by Goldberg's+Pants · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They want to spy more so they can gather more information to lose.

      Seriously, lately it seems not a week goes by without some ridiculous data leak in the UK. Whether it be thumbdrives that automatically log into private networks, laptops being stolen, documents being left on a train, confidential information being lost in the post etc...

      They won't need the Data Protection Act much longer in the UK because there'll be no data left to protect as it'll all have been leaked.

    2. Re:Hardly 3 hours by Dr.+Hellno · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "I'm just looking forward to when the data gets lost."

      From the summary of that post. 3 hours ago.

      ...Holy Crap.

      We know they're abusing their power. We know that they're incompetent!
      And it never changes! It just happens again and again and again!
      I don't know whether to laugh or cry or scream or kill or just give up anymore. I just don't know.

    3. Re:Hardly 3 hours by Firehed · · Score: 2, Insightful

      We know they're abusing their power. We know that they're incompetent!

      And it never changes! It just happens again and again and again!

      Isn't that the definition of a government?

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    4. Re:Hardly 3 hours by gbjbaanb · · Score: 4, Funny

      or they're just moving to a more distributed data system, they want to spy on you so they can see the data you now hold. Its like a bittorrent data-storage solution, all these 'lost' laptops and pendrives is a secret mechanism of distributing the data in the most widely and random way - thus adding to the security of the overall system, as no-one else knows where its ended up.

      See, its simple really :-)

  2. No, no, no by gowen · · Score: 5, Informative

    the British Ministry of Defense has lost a hard drive with the personal details of 100,000 serving personnel

    No. EDS lost a hard-drive, belonging to the MoD. Had to get that in before the "Government is intrinsically incompetent" posse got here. EDS, a privately owned and run subsidiary of Hewlett-Packard, subcontracting to the MoD, were responsible for the security of this drive, and they, not anyone at the MoD did the losing here.

    --
    Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
    1. Re:No, no, no by drsquare · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What exactly is the MoD doing sending out sensitive data to foreign private contractors? In fact, why are they giving anyone data at all?

      Fuck Labour.

    2. Re:No, no, no by gowen · · Score: 3, Informative

      this is the umpteenth time the UK gov't has lost data.

      Are you reading impaired, or just an idiot?

      No member of -- or person directly employed by -- the UK Government lost this data. EDS, a long-established, privately owned subsidiary of Hewlett Packard, lost this data.

      --
      Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
    3. Re:No, no, no by gowen · · Score: 4, Informative

      Fuck Labour.

      What? Do you really believe a politician made the decision on whom to outsource data management too?
      Are you familiar with the concept of a civil service at all? Do you know who runs the day-to-day operations for the MoD?

      Clue: Decisions like "Which subcontractor should we hire" are not made by the Secretary of State for Defence.

      --
      Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
    4. Re:No, no, no by Zsub · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Are you just an idiot?

      How does the fact that this company loses the gov'ts data not imply that the gov't loses data? Please tell me if this logic is flawed...

      And does it actually matter who loses the data? I mean, I don't live there, I can't be arsed, it's not my private information but the whole point of my post was that the UK gov't loses data. Who exactly magically makes the disks or flashdrives disappear is besides the point.

    5. Re:No, no, no by i'm+lost · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So the problem is actually that the MoD is stupid enough to entrust their data with a private company that's too incompetent to avoid losing data? That's just as bad, I'm not sure what you're defending here.

    6. Re:No, no, no by cyber-vandal · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But the overuse of external subcontractors is a political decision. Fuck New Labour and fuck the Tories who started it all.

    7. Re:No, no, no by hdparm · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why are you so apologetic on behalf of the British government? The drive was the responsibility of MoD. This includes the choice of people and/or organisations who do the handling. Likewise, even if the EDS was not the minister's choice, he should have been sacked because he hasn't made the decisions of this magnitude his choice.

    8. Re:No, no, no by CountBrass · · Score: 5, Informative

      And who decided that EDS were competent to manage the MoD's data? That would be the MoD i.e. the government. So it is the Government that is intrinsically incompetent: they have a history of either handing over vast amounts of private data to untrustworthy companies (EDS, PA Consulting, Capgemini) or of losing it themselves (HMRC, Home Office, SIS).

      In law under the Data Protection Act the MoD, not EDS, are the Data Controller and therefore responsible for losing it.

      --
      Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
    9. Re:No, no, no by tendrousbeastie · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It seems resonable to assume that the MoD are not putting sufficient emphasis on data security when placing contract with private companies. There have been several instances of private companies losing government data. The common factor is the government involvement. Seems that their procurement contract ought to be drawn up in such away to put safeguards against this happening. That is why it is the UK Govternment's fault.

    10. Re:No, no, no by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Fuck Labour.

      Yeah, because they are the ones who are more likely to out source work to a private company, right? Last time I checked, parties like Labour generally prefer that the government did it themselves, even if it costs more, and it's the opposition who are the ones who like to out source and privatise things.

    11. Re:No, no, no by captain_dope_pants · · Score: 2, Informative

      EDS are regularly in a UK magazine called Private Eye - usually for being useless or money grabbing or somehow winding up with yet another Govt contract when their track record isn't that good.

      --
      while (true != false) process_more_stupid_code();
    12. Re:No, no, no by jeremyp · · Score: 3, Interesting

      EDS has been responsible for quite a number of screwed up Government IT projects in the UK. Somebody at the MoD was responsible for giving the data to that incompetent shower.

      --
      All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
    13. Re:No, no, no by pjt33 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Check again. Labour has changed since the 1980s.

    14. Re:No, no, no by Gordonjcp · · Score: 3, Interesting

      EDS used to have a facility in Livingston (basically right in the middle of Scotland) where they printed welfare cheques (photos of the abandoned plant here). This closed down when they went to paying by BACS or similar. Anyway, according to a couple of people I know who were hired by contractors to clear all the media and computers from the site, there were quite a few highly unsavoury types handling not just storage devices and backup tapes, but also paper records while the building was being cleared. No background checking, nothing.
      What utter fucktards.
      (incidentally, posting this showed up an oddity of the URL parser - if the URL wraps so there's a space between 'href="' and 'http" then it breaks, big time.)

    15. Re:No, no, no by bwcbwc · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And before you go blaming those dam' foreigners, EDS is in this business in the UK because they bought the large UK contractor Scicon back in the 1990's. So regardless of the ownership, the people responsible for the operational f-ups that caused loss of the drive are probably home-grown.

      --
      We are the 198 proof..
    16. Re:No, no, no by mpe · · Score: 2, Interesting

      EDS lost a hard-drive, belonging to the MoD. Had to get that in before the "Government is intrinsically incompetent" posse got here.

      Maybe instead of paying 12 billion quid to spy on the British public it should instead be used to spy on EDS...

      EDS, a privately owned and run subsidiary of Hewlett-Packard, subcontracting to the MoD, were responsible for the security of this drive, and they, not anyone at the MoD did the losing here.

      WTF was the MoD doing letting this data near any foreign company? At the very least whoever agreed to this should be prosecuted under the official secrets act.

    17. Re:No, no, no by mpe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No member of -- or person directly employed by -- the UK Government lost this data. EDS, a long-established, privately owned subsidiary of Hewlett Packard, lost this data.

      If anything this is worst than someone employed by the British Government losing the data. Security was breached when they let a foreign owned company have access to it. That that company lost the media is just the icing on the cake.
      This is like the driving theory test data, lost from somewhere it should never have been in the first place.
      There are only 11 locations in the US that the British Government has any business at all sending this kind of data.

  3. Combine this with the immediately preceding story by kaos07 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Enough said.

  4. I can! by matt4077 · · Score: 5, Funny

    I can confirm that the data was or was not encrypted.

  5. this is the reason why... by MoFoQ · · Score: 3, Funny

    this is the reason why the brits have to spy more....'cuz it's about quantity.....if u have more data coming in.....than that is going out (aka losing)...then u'r golden.

    (I don't think it's a coincidence that this was posted after the bit about the brits needing to spy more)

  6. Are they really being lost? by argiedot · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The only time I have ever lost a device is when I was mugged and my phones were taken from me and I'm just any other person.

    It should be interesting to see what the ratio of laptops lost to all laptops provided is. Maybe this cynicism is because I live in India where corruption is rampant and entire flyovers can be 'lost', but I'm a bit suspicious about this whole thing.

    Also, if they're losing laptops with information at such a high rate, at what rate are they losing paper files? Surely it's harder to keep track of the 20 binders with 100 sheets in them than it is to keep track of one hard drive?

    I find it hard to believe that these people are really that incompetent. Hanlon's Razor doesn't always apply.

    1. Re:Are they really being lost? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Business travellers in the US and Europe lose a staggering 15,648 laptops per week, according to a new study by Dell.

      So one shouldn't be surprised that laptops go missing, if the study is anything like accurate.

    2. Re:Are they really being lost? by somersault · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It was standard practice for our head of accounting to take our backup tapes home for a few years. This year I saw some of our tapes just lying out in plain view on the passenger seat of his car, so I politely showed him a couple of stories about data loss when tapes were stolen from cars, and have been taking the tapes home myself now..

      --
      which is totally what she said
    3. Re:Are they really being lost? by Phroggy · · Score: 2, Funny

      How is it a questionable practice? Fires may not be very likely, and the servers are on the first floor (second in American terms) so we're not likely to have problems in a flood, but it's always better safe than sorry.

      What would you do personally if you had ~250GB of data from various servers that needed to be regularly backed up? Would you still backup to tape but then just store them in a fireproof safe onsite? That should protect the tapes from most disasters, but you just never know, do you? We regularly have large cranes in the yard - if one of them were to topple or swing a heavy 20 foot container through the server room wall or something crazy like that, it could do some serious damage.

      I think what the GP was saying was, I wouldn't want the liability associated with taking the tapes home myself. I mean, what if somebody did break into my car, or whatever? What if I got in an accident on my way home, and the tapes were destroyed? If there's any problem, I don't want to take them blame.

      That's why I would pay somebody else to take care of it for me. Fortunately, it turns out that there's a company called EDS that offers just such a service! They do this kind of thing for plenty of other companies/government agencies, so I'm sure they're as reliable as anyone, and the important thing is, if there's a problem, I'm off the hook.

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
  7. Yet another example... by Firefalcon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...of why we shouldn't be outsourcing critical/sensitive data handling. Yes, Government departments can cock-up enough without external help, but so many of these data loss issues at the moment seem to be the fault of a private company they've outsourced to.

    Also, I worry about the outsourcing of anything relating to our Country's security. When you give the job to the lowest bidder, what can you expect but a barely adequate service?

  8. Re:Combine this with the immediately preceding sto by houghi · · Score: 3, Funny

    Information wants to be free.

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  9. Re:Encrypted or not? HAH! by leenks · · Score: 3, Insightful

    His point was that if someone wants the data, eg they actively stole the hard drive, then they are likely to steal or obtain the mechanism to decrypt the data too.

  10. Government Incompetence? by BenEnglishAtHome · · Score: 5, Informative

    Isn't that the definition of a government?

    Not really. Where I work, any laptop connected to the network is checked at every connection for the presence of active full disk encryption software. If it isn't found (which can happen when computers are being built and the encryption installation hasn't been completed) then an immediate alert is sent to the support staff nearest the machine. In response to that alert, the machine must be encrypted or seized immediately. We're talking same-day action, here, with the consequence of inaction being that someone gets fired.

    The result is that when we lose (usually through theft but the method is unimportant in this context) a laptop, we can immediately report that said laptop was fully encrypted and no data was lost or is at risk.

    If we need to let a contractor on our network, we set up one of our laptops to meet all security requirements and lend that hardware to the contractor. No contractor is allowed to put their machine on our network.

    Finally, when data is written to removable media, it's encrypted. We run a software package (Guardian Edge) that forces all writes to removable media to be encrypted. It's a pain sometimes, but it's the least we can do to keep the publics private data safe.

    Frankly, I'm shocked that the MOD would accept less stringent practices on the part of contractors. I know we don't.

    1. Re:Government Incompetence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Great job, way to piss on our parade of mocking government incompetence. I hope you're happy with yourself.

      (Please don't audit me!)

    2. Re:Government Incompetence? by lysergic.acid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      there's no inherent reason for the government to be incompetent. but it's always those who want to cut down on public infrastructure and social welfare programs that are incompetent themselves. of course when you elect such people into government they make a complete mess of things and use their own incompetence as an excuse to hand these roles over to the private sector.

      i mean, how can you put people who don't believe in public infrastructure in charge of public infrastructure? it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    3. Re:Government Incompetence? by BenEnglishAtHome · · Score: 4, Interesting

      what kind of tricky stuff are you doing to detect full-disk encryption on any machine that touches the network?

      I don't know. I'm on the receiving end of those alerts, so I know they happen. Exactly how, I'm not sure. Our logon scripts do all sorts of stuff, including automatically installing updates to vertical apps, so checking for full disk encryption wouldn't seem to be too hard a task. I know there are certain files on the machines that do not exist until encryption has been installed and fully enabled. I assume that looking for them would be trivial. But that's just a guess.

      To show you how tight our scans are, we had a contractor who plugged a personally-owned USB key into his IRS-issued laptop. It contained some basic maintenance tools as well as some network monitoring tools. He wanted some simple utility, I forget which one, and instead of asking for it through channels he just plugged in his copy. Literally *5* minutes after he plugged in the key, his machine was deleted from the domain and his personal identifier was wiped from all systems, just like we do when someone is fired. 5 minutes after that, his boss got a call from our security office explaining that the employee was being reviewed for termination. The boss explained that he was a good guy, new to the organization, just made a mistake, and asked for some slack. Ultimately, the guy got a two-week suspension and then had to re-build everything (system access permissions, etc.) as if he were newly hired.

      I really don't question the notion that our monitoring does a good job of catching any funny business.

      And more importantly (assuming that this requires a boot-time password; I've never bothered with any serious encryption), do you have something that detects the sticky note on the bottom of the laptop with said password?

      This is one of the areas where we take a notably sensible approach. Our security rules that each person must sign and obey do NOT prohibit writing down passwords. It's officially discouraged but not prohibited. We take the attitude that as long as that list is protected, like people protect their ID card, door key card, and credit card, there's no problem.

      Nobody puts a sticker on the bottom of their laptop or keyboard. We have constant security inspections, usually after hours, and doing crap like that gets you disciplined severely.

      I wont go into excess detail (which, by itself, would be a violation of our security rules) but suffice it to say that if you wanted to steal and get data off an IRS laptop, you'd have to mug the user, get their password list, know their internal ID (which no one writes down because we use it constantly) then mug a different person with local machine administrator credentials, get logons and passwords from that person, then know exactly where to type all of them in without making more than three mistakes to lock up the machine.

      The only people who could successfully get information off our laptops would be our admins. But we can get to that stuff internally, already, so that's not a realistic threat.

      Realistically, the only thing a thief can do with a stolen IRS laptop is wipe it, install an OS, and use it.

    4. Re:Government Incompetence? by byronf · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I wont go into excess detail (which, by itself, would be a violation of our security rules) but suffice it to say that if you wanted to steal and get data off an IRS laptop, you'd have to mug the user, get their password list, know their internal ID (which no one writes down because we use it constantly) then mug a different person with local machine administrator credentials, get logons and passwords from that person, then know exactly where to type all of them in without making more than three mistakes to lock up the machine.

      What if I find a disenfranchised employee, and offer money?

    5. Re:Government Incompetence? by VJ42 · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's the same the world over, the only part of government that does it's job well is the one the citizens wish would fail miserably.
      Seriously, the IRS, or HMRC here in the UK, would track down Osama bin laden if owed them a penny. Unfortunately, it seems he must file his tax returns on time...

      --
      If I have nothing to hide, you have no reason to search me
    6. Re:Government Incompetence? by Skuldo · · Score: 2, Informative

      The UK Skynet has been around since at least 1969.

    7. Re:Government Incompetence? by BenEnglishAtHome · · Score: 2, Informative

      your IT Security people that they can just disable the USB drivers

      We'd have to quell a revolt. Some of our people have repeated needs to move multi-gig data files from place to place. USB sticks have been a godsend. Given that some of our offices have such poor connectivity to the rest of the world, large file transfers used to require overnight or longer planning. Just moving a file from cube to manager's office for review could take hours. Now that they can sneakernet or mail a USB stick to move a big file, turning off that capability would have them hunting for our scalps.

  11. Mod Parent +1 Correct by ozphx · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The MOD must demand from it's subcontractors a certain level of service, and be responsible for it. "Well it wasn't our fault, it was that guy" doesn't cut it when it comes to state secrets.

    Get better subcontractors next time or DIY, retards.

    --
    3laws: No freebies, no backsies, GTFO.
  12. Contains everything you need for perfect ID theft by gilgongo · · Score: 3, Informative

    From TFA:

    "The portable drive contains the names, addresses, passport numbers, dates of birth and driving licence details of around 100,000 serving personnel across the Army, Royal Navy and RAF, plus their next-of-kin details. "

    Wow. Just... wow.

    The person who finds this and wants to exploit it would become unimaginably rich on stolen identities for pretty much the rest of their lives. I suppose if the MoD have a record of exactly who's details were on the disk, they could re-issue things like national insurance numbers and driving licences to prevent that, but even then the possibilities for other avenues of exploitation using this information would be huge (next of kin, for pity's sake!!).

    Data like this needs to be treated as if it were nuclear waste or a volatile explosive mixture. It would be just about OK to have a list of 100,000 driving licence numbers if these were kept physically separate from, say, names and addresses (eg keying them on a one-time ID), but when certain classes of data are kept TOGETHER like this, it should be every right-thinking person's reaction to scream the house down in panic.

    We have to assume that at some point, all data will leak out somewhere. All we can do is to to ensure than when it does, it's not actionable. Oh, and by the way - you can forget encryption. People don't understand it and in most cases those who steal data will steal or otherwise obtain the keys as well.

    --
    "And the meaning of words; when they cease to function; when will it start worrying you?"
  13. MOD PARENT UP by BenEnglishAtHome · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This:

    how can you put people who don't believe in public infrastructure in charge of public infrastructure?

    is one of the best questions I've ever seen posted on Slashdot. With an election looming, it's a question that every voter should ask themselves. Whoever modded it flamebait is a dufus.

  14. Re:alsjkhaok jasdpaiosdj asdasiodjas by Bloke+down+the+pub · · Score: 2, Funny

    Larry Wall wouldn't.

    --
    It's true I tell you, feller at work's next door neighbour read it in the paper.